Who What Wear with Hillary Kerr: Wardrobe Stylist Allison Bornstein Returns to Discuss Her New Book on Personal Style, Wear It Well

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The last time we had Alison on the show, we chatted about her styling and closet organization tips, which continue to go viral for very good reason. If you haven't heard the first episode, it's an absolute must listen, but today, Alison's here to talk all about her fabulous upcoming book called Where It Well, Reclaim Your Closet, and Rediscover the Joy of Getting Dressed. The title really says it all. Alison has a gift for helping clients find the truest versions of themselves through their clothing and the gentle, but instructional guidance in her book is no doubt going to help readers everywhere. Do the same. It's all coming up on Who Up Where? All righty. You ready girl? I'm ready. I'm excited. Yay! Good. So Alison, we are so happy to have you back. So the last time you joined me on The Who Up Where Pod in April, you walked me through some of your viral styling and organizational tips, which I have been implementing by the way. So thank you very much, my closet. Thanks you. That episode went nuts. It absolutely exploded. Our audience loved it. So I knew it was a no-brainer to ask you to come back because you put all of those tips and many, many, many more in your new book called Where It Well, Reclaim Your Closet, and Rediscover the Joy of Getting Dressed. Your book comes out in a month. So tell me a little bit about the process. Why did you think, you know what? Let's put all of this information together in a book, and not only that, how did you actually get started? Because I think everyone thinks that they have the book in them, whether that's actually true or not is a different thing. Well, there were a few separate situations that kind of led me in this direction, but one of the first times that I was actually like, okay, I'm going to like sit down and work on this was I was staying at my cousin's house. And I was doing my FaceTime styling sessions in her guest bedroom. And in between each session, she would like run in, she'd be like, okay, who was she? What was her struggle? What did you do? What did you say? And we would talk about each person and then at the end of the day, we kind of sat down and we were talking about the women that I had met that day. We were kind of analyzing them. And maybe it's crazy, but it was like the first time that I was sort of thinking about the clients on like a larger scale. Of course, we all have individual struggles. But in talking to my cousin, I realized that there were almost prototypes that were emerging. And even though the specific issues and the wardrobes were totally different, the prescriptions were kind of similar. So basically, I was like, okay, I can keep doing this one-on-one like hand-to-hand combat, but I also want to try to solve all of these problems at once. And that's sort of what I'm doing in this book because like I said, we all have different wardrobes and different struggles, but a lot of us don't know our style or we know it, but we're not confident to try or we don't understand how to dress for our body or what we perceive our body to look like or we don't understand what we have in our wardrobe or we have shopping trauma. So there's like all these little buckets. And I feel like a lot of the solutions are similar regardless of what your closet looks like. Which to me is such a wonderful message that these are universal issues that all folks go through when they're getting dressed. It's not a you thing. And even folks who work in the industry like stuff can go off tracks, I saw something you posted on social recently where you're like, I am neglecting one of my three words. I'm going to bring in the 70s with these sunglasses. I was like, oh yeah, that's right. You can sort of get into even your own personal rut and realize like, oh no, take a step back. Look at this from 30,000 feet instead. Exactly. And I don't think we are often encouraged to take that time and that space that I hope that this book gives readers the permission and the space to really like deeply think about your style. Yeah. Important stuff. Okay. So it talks me a little bit about your process to writing and your approach. Does it mirror your other organizational hacks? I have a hunch it would probably be more organized, but you never know sometimes chaos lies within even the most system focused folks. I'm definitely chaotic in many ways, but I am organized when it comes to my closet and the writing process, I had an incredible writer help me. Her name is Jessica Kerwin Jenkins and she was like my word stylist because I had all of these ideas and all of these methods and systems and tips and she did what I do for people's closet. She looked at everything and she was like, okay, this is how we can communicate this in a more succinct way. That's usually my problem. I get a little wordy. So one thing that I am curious about because so much of the content that you create is for social or is IRL, what did it feel like to actually have to sit down and share in this new format and also to think through this has to be timeless in a certain way. Like I don't want this book to go out of style. This needs to be something that in theory lasts for decades. That was one of the most challenging parts. I wanted it to feel like you could pick it up in 10 years and flip to a page and learn something or be like, oh, yeah, I never thought of it that way, but I didn't want it to feel so timeless that it didn't feel modern or interesting or new. So that was kind of a hard line to walk. Another challenge that I had that made it different from social was on social media when I share something. If somebody has a question, they can just ask me, they can DM me, they can comment. And in this book, a big part of the process for me was adding detail. That was a big part of the editing process editor being like, okay, well, if you're going to roll the pant, explain how you roll it. How many inches? When wouldn't you roll the pant? I feel like the detail makes it really rich. And I feel like if you're reading and you're like, wait, but how, I'll answer. You know, I want someone who loves fashion to read it and be like, oh, yeah, for sure. Or somebody who hates fashion or doesn't know that much about fashion to read it and be like, oh, wow. Okay. Interesting. And I also think even sometimes answering those detailed questions gives framework. Just having that additional context from someone all of a sudden makes you feel like, oh, there is no right answer here. That's great. Or there is a right answer here. And we're going to follow that path. It gives you a little bit more confidence, especially if it's something that you're not familiar with. So talk to me about the photography because there's beautiful photography in it. But I'm wondering what your process was like. So I had the vision in mind while I was writing, but I wrote everything first. And then we did the photo shoots. And my idea for the photography is that I wanted to feel a bit like Instagram, like it was from a specific point of view, but that every page felt a little bit different and that there was texture to it. And it felt almost like a collage of different inspiration and different things and different people. So that was sort of my vision. And I worked with this photographer Jennifer Trayhan and she's in New York City photographer. I'd worked with her before. She's so wonderful and she's so kind, like instead of being like, okay, turn your head two inches. She's like, okay, relax your neck and like, how would it feel if you just like looked over there? She makes the photos feel really natural and fluid. And so I was really, really excited to work with her. And then after we took the photos, I had this amazing woman named Annie. She's on Instagram. It's at Annie collage. I had her make collages out of some of the photos that we took. So again, it wanted it to feel like each page had something a little bit different, but still felt like it was part of the same world. And it does. So we talked a little bit about how focus on personal style is seen as frivolous. And you do such an amazing job in this book of really explaining personal style and presenting it truthfully as an act of self care that can really open your world up to new possibilities. I had always thought of it in terms, and this makes sense as a writer primarily in terms of language. So just like we want to be articulate and thoughtful with our words when communicating, we want to be articulate and thoughtful with our personal style, because that's communicating something before we even open our mouths. But I love this idea, which feels like an evolution to me of imagination and honoring who we are in our personal style. And you take it to almost a, for lack of a better way of putting it, spiritual plays of like when you are really authentically yourself, how that opens up everything else. So can you talk to me a little bit about how you came to this philosophy because it feels limitless and warm and considered and really inspiring. And those are not words that always show up in this space. Well, thank you for that. I think in order to have good style or even just style that truly represents who you are, you have to have an understanding of who you are. You have to kind of do that work. You have to ask yourself, who am I? What do I like? What do I not like? Why do I not like it? Why do I like it? And I think you have to really have a willingness to be curious about yourself and to be deep and to be vulnerable. It starts from within, even though it seems like it's such an exterior type of thing, you know, getting dressed. It does really start from within. Also fashion is usually seen as pretty feminine or female. And I feel like as a result, it's not taken as seriously as it should be because it's an incredible form of self-expression. And I think that we've been taught that we have to look great, but we can't look like we tried to look great. And because trying means that you're shallow or trying means that you don't care about other things or trying means that you're not naturally beautiful and that's embarrassing, you know? And not only should we try, I think we should enjoy trying. It should be really fun. Yeah, it's a little bit like America's monologue and Barbie, where she's talking about. You're supposed to care about this, but you can't look like you tried too hard. Yes, like we can't win, so we might as well just enjoy and wear things that make us feel amazing. So I do find that a lot of my clients will be like, okay, I really want to look styled and I want to look put together, but I don't want to look like I tried. And I understand that and it's also like the no makeup makeup thing. It's like I get it, but also what, what would be so bad if we looked like we tried? We all try. And when we look like we don't try, we've tried even harder as a mom of two little kids and we let them, for the most part, pick out their own clothes. I have had to work on that myself, where I'm just like, it's their self expression. And seeing that joy of like my son going into his room and saying, like, don't look because I'm putting together a great effort. I'm going to surprise you. And then he comes out and he's like, today, this is who I am today. That joy, it's in us. That's how we start and we just get away from it as we get older and it's sad. My mom was the same and she really, really let me express and I think that's why I love fashion so much because she never framed it like I was doing anything wrong. That's how that joy, I think, sort of stays with you. Yeah. So I love that you had a number of client stories in this book. I'm wondering if you can tell me a little bit about the types of emotional transformations that you've seen after helping clients curate their wardrobes. I feel like you've been talking about children recently. I've had a lot of new mothers and on the surface, of course, the reason that they want to work together is because their clothes might not fit the same and because their lifestyles different. But I feel like on a deeper level, they often are coming to me because there's some shift in their identity and they're trying to figure out who they are now and use their clothes as the language to communicate who this new person is in the world. With their child, but also separate from their child. And I feel like that's always really fun to see. Also one of my favorite things with clients is we'll get on FaceTime or I'll walk into their space and like, okay, hi, I have horrible clothes. I hate everything. I don't even want to show you. I need everything new. Okay, so what do we do? And we'll kind of start looking through their clothes and by the end of the session, they're like, oh, I actually have great clothes and I have great taste. And I think a lot of us do. We have great clothes. We have things that we picked out because we genuinely liked it. But what we don't have is ideas and we don't necessarily want to take the time to think of the ideas. We want to just buy more. So I think that's always fun when at the end of the session, somebody's like, oh, you know what? I actually have a great wardrobe. I'm like, yes, thank you. You do. That's so funny. And it's true because I was going to ask, what do you think some of the most common barriers are to having the closet or the outfits that you really want? And to that point, it sounds like it's mostly ideas, but is that the biggest issue? Or is it like decision paralysis? What do you think it is? Like the number one barrier to the closet, the wardrobe, the personal style that you want? I would say the number one barrier is not having a vision. And I don't mean that in like a manifestation way, but it's like, if you can't even picture what a dream closet would look like, there's no way you can achieve it. You know what I mean? So you really have to know and understand your style or what you want your style to be in order to make good decisions, because I don't know. It's kind of silly to think that we would just go buy stuff, willy nilly, and it would just create the perfect door job. Like you have to have some guidelines and some standards and some ideas because then you can shop and buy things that you feel like are going to bring you closer to that ideal. Yeah, because it's like the difference between like putting a knee brace on something versus doing physical therapy to strengthen and heal that thing. Exactly. Your closet is a room. And you know, if you think of it like interior design, you would never just go and like impulse buy a couch. Right? You would make sure that it fit in your space and you wouldn't be like, oh, this couch is too big, but actually maybe the room will grow eventually. Like you would never do that. You would measure it. You would make sure that it's like good quality and that it's going to last. And then if you saw another couch, you would have to be like, well, I'll just buy this too, even though I love the one that I have. Like no, you're a lot more thoughtful about it because obviously logistical reasons. But you know, we have to have a little bit of a little vision. I love that. I hear from women both on my own personal channels. I have historically throughout who I wear people who like clothes, but they don't consider themselves fashion people or even that they understand it. They want to, but they feel nervous about even like starting that conversation. I think of it a little bit like how I used to be about politics or college basketball. Like it felt like there was too much to learn. Do you have any suggestions for folks who feel like they're at entry level fashion? They want to know more. They want to educate themselves. Where should they go for style inspiration? How should they get started? What would you suggest? I mean, Instagram and Pinterest are obviously amazing. When I see something that I like and that inspires me, I'm going to take a screenshot or I'm going to take a photo and just kind of collect those instead of going to look for things. I feel like when you kind of start looking for things, it can become a little manic sometimes. But I think it's just like, okay, from now on, when I see something that inspires me, I am going to collect it. Unless you're watching friends and you see something that Monica's wearing that you like, like, take a picture and just keep it on your phone. I feel like just starting is really helpful and it doesn't have to be like these high brow fancy looks. Like if somebody's wearing jeans in a T shirt and you're like, you know, I just like really like the way that looks and I kind of want to remind myself that like, that's an option. Take a screenshot and put it in a folder. I feel like once you start, then you'll also get a better idea of what you like, whose account you like and who's been inspiring you and who you take a lot of screenshots up and then just kind of go from there. I love that. My maybe a little creepy hack sometimes is if I find someone who I do like on Instagram and I like their personal style. Sometimes I go to who they're following and just sort of like nose around there to get ideas. I'm like, who inspires this person? That's such a good idea. Just lurk, lurking as a strategy. Okay. So one of my favorite chapters in the book is nine universal pieces where you give us the basics that everyone should own. Of course, everyone loves a easy, breezy checklist. But more importantly, I think what's so great is the way that you lay out how versatile any single piece of clothing can be depending on how you style it. So I'm hoping that you can walk our listeners through just a little taste of a few ways that, for example, a white t-shirt could be styled to accomplish different looks. Yes. Okay. This was actually the hardest section for me to write because I didn't want it to feel like we all need the exact same things, you know, but I feel like there are some specific silhouettes or some specific shapes that are just very helpful to have in your wardrobe. So like you said, the white t-shirt is one of them, but if you don't love white, it can be a black t-shirt, it can be a cream t-shirt, it can be a black tank top. It's just something that can act as like a nice base layer. So in the book, I give like three different ways to style it and then I give three different three word combinations and say how somebody with those three words of style it and then I give three different celebrities and say how they would style the white t-shirt. So for example, I have classic sporty edgy. Maybe try a white t-shirt with leather trousers, sneakers, and an oversized denim jacket. Or Lauren Hutton would wear a white t-shirt with fitted trousers, amends were inspired black leather belt and loafers. So I have like all these different ideas, which I think is kind of fun and hopefully inspires people to think about their pieces in a new way. I love that. And it's crazy because it does make you realize like this one piece can work in so many different ways. And just sometimes is that nudge and reminder that you need because we all sort of have our habits. I love that part. So on another styling note, I'd love to quickly touch on Rongshu theory, which is a viral hack that you coined that we love it who what where. Tell me how this was born. Tell me some of your favorite applications of it. And also like were you surprised that everyone and their mom would become obsessed with this idea? Yeah, because I've said the wrong shoe thing for like two years. And so I'm like, okay, I'm glad you guys are finally listening to me. But it's just the right time. But I think that I identified it because I was finding that clients were going really straightforward with their look and they were either basing the entire look off their shoes or their shoes and their accessories were sort of an afterthought. So the look wouldn't necessarily feel intentional. You know, like if you are wearing sneakers, sometimes you kind of go for a sportier look to on the nose. It's like two on the nose. And I found that this is a really easy way to create some tension and create some contrast to looks without needing to buy anything new. It's not necessarily meant to be like a super wacky combination. It's more like, what is your first instinct? Don't do that. Do something else that might be just like a little bit different. But if it's like, I always wear these white sandals with this floral dress. Well, what if I did like a black chunky sandal instead? It will just take your look in a different direction and make it look more intentional and more styled just because there's like that little twist to it. It's also really low stakes. If you don't like it, you take it off and you put on the ones that you normally wear, you know? And I found seeing the way that people who I think have good style dress, there's always one thing that's slightly offbeat or slightly quote unquote wrong about the look, that little contrast and a little bit of tension. I love it. I feel like it's a little bit of a new iteration of the high low mix. You don't have to be so literal. You don't have to be so one note. And in fact, that will breathe new life into these pieces that you already own and already love. And to your point, worst case scenario, you just take it off, yeah. So is there a part of your book that was really tricky and then also a part that you really, really love? Let's see. Okay. The part that was the trickiest was the universal pieces part because like I said, I didn't want to make it feel like everybody needs the same thing. I wanted this section, the universal pieces to help you find your style and your version of these shapes. So for example, like I think a lot of things will be like, you need a crisp white button down, but I don't think you do. And I don't even think you need a white button down, but maybe you need a denim button down or a suede button down, or maybe it's like a vintage silk that's floral. Like it's not necessarily about this exact piece. It's about the shape. And I just wanted to make sure that I really communicated that. So that was the trickiest part for me. The part that feels the closest to my heart, I mean, it all feels very personal. But I think that what I love the most is that all of these methods and tips and tricks are based off of things that I've learned from clients. It's really just like, I don't want to say like a love letter to my clients, but it really is. It's like kind of putting language to these things that I've learned. Well, I think that's part of why this book is so great is because it's so rooted in reality. It's so grounded. Oftentimes experts are so in it that there is somewhat of a disconnection to the practical every day real world application of those things. And your book does the most amazing job at being both. It's like clearly have the expertise. It's so inspirational. But then there's this piece that's just like accessible, come on in. We can do this together. This is how this really shakes down when you're actually doing it because I've seen everything. And a lot of it is just like filler or totally unapproachable. And this is such a good iteration. That is so nice. Everything you're saying is exactly how I wanted it to feel. Thank you. It's my pleasure. And that's why I highly recommend anyone who ever gets stressed should buy this. Okay. So speaking of which, it seems like the initial closet clean out is sort of the big one that gets the ball rolling. But everyone's style evolves over time depending on your face of life, depending on the activities that you get into, whether it's a universal life event or personal life event, there will be things that make your taste in your style and what you need from your clothes change. So how do you imagine folks using this book over the course of many years or iterations of themselves, whatever it may be? Yes. I totally agree that obviously our style changes like we said because it's a reflection of who we are. And as we change our style, we'll change as well. That's totally normal. And I think that in these moments, when we're maybe feeling a little lost or confused about our style, I think that's the perfect time to just reintroduce yourself. To this book, I think that there's a lot of practices and rituals in here that we can continue to do. And I hope that these kind of become parts of your life, you know, like even like you were saying before, I was feeling uninspired by my style. And when that happens, I'll get crazed and I'll have like one million carts full of stuff. And then I stop and I'm like, okay, what do we actually need to do? It's usually not shopping. It's usually kind of looking back at ourselves and looking back at our looks and figuring out sort of what's missing or what's on a balance. So yeah, I hope this book is something that you can come back to for years. Okay. So I have a direct passage from the book that I think is so amazing in which you wrote, your closet is a working space, not an archive. That means it's a sacred space that's always reflecting who we really are and who we are becoming. If we are moms and our daily life consists of pickup and drop off, we need to make sure our closets reflect that and the fact that there's nothing wrong with planning for and dressing for these moments. It's good to take care and think about what you wear even if you're just going to pick up your kids because these quote unquote in between moments are what make up our lives and our style. We aren't carry Bradshaw, our closets shouldn't be a showroom. We want beauty, but we also want to see ourselves, our true selves reflected in the space. That is so lovely and so thoughtful and I feel like one of the big takeaways of this book. But if you had to say, what is the big message in your book, what would it be? I think the big message is that getting dressed can be a joyful and fun experience if we are willing again to be vulnerable and to kind of get to know ourselves and also that passage that you read, that was something that one of my clients had told me, she had told me that she kept feeling like her closet was this archive of things that she was collecting, but then she had nothing for when she was with her kids and she was like, this is so silly because these times that I'm with my kids, this is my life and I like who I am. So why am I collecting these things that have nothing to do with me? I feel like on a much smaller scale, my issue with whenever I am putting together something for a vacation, like all of a sudden I'm like buying a bunch of stuff, I am not bohemian. There's nothing bohemian about my personal style, my choices, my body, and then all of a sudden I'm like packing to go somewhere warm and it's like, it has all of these things where I'm like, this is not me, but I realize I'm like, I'm shopping for a version of myself and then these clothes just sit relegated for years. Why would I be a totally different person on vacation than I am every other day? So this framework works in so many different ways. I'm so glad. And then when you open up your closet and you see those like boho pieces, you're like, who's that? Why is she here? Yeah. And we love those looks, but like this is not me, exactly. So as if anyone needed another reason to order this book immediately, you are also running a contest. So if you pre-order and I'd just like to say pre-orders are hugely important to authors because it signals to independent bookstores and big bookstores and everything in between how much of an appetite there is for this book so that they know, oh, lots of people like it. So we should start buying more copies or we should stock up. So if you want to support Allison, the number one thing you can do is pre-order the book. And if you pre-order the book, you are now entered into a contest where you can win a free consultation and a $250 gift card to your favorite retailer. That's so thoughtful and amazing. Where can people find details about that? That is all on my website, Alice in Borency.com. So yeah, just go there, there's a wear it well tab and you can pre-order the book and you can enter to win the contest. Heck yes. Well, I'm excited for our audience, I'm excited for you, I'm excited for the world. Thank you so much for coming back to chat with me, Allison. This is just such a pleasure on so many levels. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so, so, so much. A huge thank you to Stylist and author, Allison Borenstein. Make sure to subscribe to our show wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss an episode. And while you're there, I'd also be so grateful if you would rate and review us. If you have any guest suggestions or any other feedback, drop us a line at podcast at Huatware.com or you can find us on social at Huatware. See you next Wednesday on Huatware with Hillary Kerr. This episode was produced by Hillary Kerr, Summer Hammeres and Natalie Thurman. Our audio engineers are at Treehouse Recording in Los Angeles, California and our music is by Jonathan Leahy. Hi podcast listeners, I'm Grace O'Connell Joshua and I'm an assistant shopping editor here at Huatware. As a shopping editor, I'm basically my friends go to person for all things fashion and shopping. Today's episode with Stylist and author, Allison Borenstein is all about celebrating personal style and falling back in love with the process of getting dressed. This got me thinking about the pieces in my wardrobe that gave me the most joy. As a shopping editor and fashion lover, I have always found joy in my closet. Every time I get an invitation somewhere, I'm filled with excitement, more so for the opportunity to style myself, but when I started thinking about the pieces in my closet that sparked the most joy, my mind went straight to my designer accessories. Not anything brand new, but all of the designer pieces I spent time saving up and hunting for. Those special pieces that you can't just walk into a store and buy, and you won't see on everyone else. Lately, when I've been wanting to add to my collection of accessories that sparked me joy, I turn to my go-to marketplace, eBay, I'm big on quality. Also when you're shopping for pre-loved on the expensive side pieces, you want to go with someone you trust. That's why I always shop with eBay. They have an authenticity guarantee service that absolutely changed the game for me. eBay's expert authenticators personally inspect the items and verify your purchases, so you always have the confidence that you're getting the real deal. I almost screamed for joy when I found this vintage 70s Cartier watch that I have been wanting forever. It's the perfect simple yet sophisticated watch to start growing my collection. So many of my fellow who are where editors have been encouraging me to start shopping with eBay. And I have to say, I wish I had started earlier. I have them and eBay to thank for my new Bottega Veneta Mini Jody bag. I snagged just in time for fall. I have a feeling it's going to be my most used purchase of the season. eBay has been the secret weapon of fashion people for years, and now with the authenticity guarantee service, there are more opportunities to get high quality designer bags, shoes, and jewelry than ever before. I even found a pair of Adidas Samba shoes that I have been wanting for so long, but every time I look, they're sold out. Thankfully, like always, eBay came through for me. To use the authenticity guarantee service, all you have to do is select the authenticity guarantee filter, just like you would to filter for color or price. It made the whole shopping process that much easier. It's not just for higher price jewelry or designer bags. You can use the service on sneakers and in other categories. Trust me, I basically shop for a living, and eBay is the way to go when you really want to get those special, authentic pieces that you know you will have forever.