Um, how are you?
Most people answer that question with fine or good,
but obviously it's not always fine and it's usually not even that good.
This is a podcast that asks people to be honest about their pain,
to just be honest about how they really feel about the hard parts of life.
And guess what?
It's complicated.
Hello, it's Nora.
It is summertime and the team at Feelings & Co is not taking a vacation.
We are working on the next few months of episodes and planning out the next 12
months of work for our team.
So while we're out there finding and producing new stories for you,
we are also going to be sharing a few of our older favorites.
Including this episode.
We'll be back with brand new episodes the first Tuesday of August,
and we are still putting out bonus episodes on our premium feed.
You can get the full archive of terrible things for asking
and bonus episodes anytime at ttfa.org slash premium.
I'm Nora McNerney and this is terrible, thanks for asking.
So no spoilers, but today's episode is about suicide.
And there is also some strong language.
I think I remember some f's, some a's, some asses.
And not even by me, I'm pretty sure.
I'm pretty sure this time they're not mine.
There's also some graphic sexual content, and I think that's it.
I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud.
I just know that a lot of you listen to the show with your kids,
which is so interesting.
Hello children, and I just want you to be able to choose what your kids do.
And don't hear.
So here we go.
The first time I knew I was straight was probably preschool.
I had a crush on Joey McIntyre, the cutest member of NKO TV.
And I was like, whoa, I don't know what's happening inside of me, but I want that.
Don't you know that the time has arrived?
Okay, um, man oh man, first crushes, they are illuminating.
We don't really know what it means necessarily.
I wasn't like mom, dad sit down.
I have news for you.
I am straight.
Okay, I'm a heterosexual, and I'm going to grow up.
I'm going to have some McIntyre babies.
Okay, don't even get me any crap about it, Steve.
He's obviously Irish.
It's more like this little flicker of what's inside us,
like a little bit of insight into our nature and our future.
And I think most of us know pretty early in life what that nature is.
Nathan sure did.
My first time I knew I was gay was I was four years old, and I had my crush.
Uh, in preschool his name was Carlos.
He had like these like beautiful curly brown hair.
And in that moment I knew that I was different.
I didn't know what gay was, but that was the first time I knew I didn't like girls.
At age four, little Nathan knew something else.
He knew that he was a Mormon kid living in Utah.
Which I mean most four year olds know where they live.
That's not the interesting part here.
Mormons don't accept homosexuality, or more specifically to be fair.
They don't accept acting on any same sex attraction impulses as they call them.
They're super open about this by the way.
They have a website called Mormon and Gay, where they clearly state their position
alongside inspirational photography and testimonials from their community.
It's all out there.
And their position comes down basically to this.
God loves everyone.
God loves all of us.
God thinks we are all great two thumbs up.
And we're all a part of God's plan.
Gay people are welcome.
They're welcome to be fully participating members of the LDS church.
Like come on in, join us if you are recognizing and living according to the word of God.
Which the Mormon faith believes means abstinence until marriage.
They also believe marriages between a man and a woman.
So Nathan can be a fully practicing Mormon if he's not a fully practicing gay person.
And he doesn't know this at age four.
But when he gets a little older that conflict between who he is and what he believes
starts to get clearer.
Before I got baptized when I was seven my gay uncle and his then boyfriend now has been
visited from Atlanta.
And on my mom's side they're totally chill because like they grew up in San Diego.
No one's more going to accept my mom and her parents.
And they're just these fabulous Jewish people that just love everyone.
But then my dad's side, that was the first time my dad ever met a gay person.
And we went to a family party on my dad's side after
hanging with them and they were just his siblings and stuff kind of like mocked it
and kind of talked about them being gay and in love like in a grotesque type of way.
And in that moment I was like crap.
That's what I am.
So I must be grotesque.
That was the first time I really felt what it was like to be a gay Mormon.
Nathan knew that he was different, that he was gay.
And even if he didn't know exactly what his faith believed about gay people,
he saw firsthand that being gay and Mormon were obviously at odds.
And naturally given his dad's family's reaction to his gay uncle,
Nathan assumed that being gay was also at odds with being a part of his family.
So he decided that the best thing he could do, the safest thing he could do was to pretend
to be like what he could see in everyone else around him, to pretend to be straight.
I knew for sure that no matter what I would marry a woman,
and I knew that I would do anything that my faith asked of me,
and I knew that no matter what I would find a way to be in love with a woman,
because that's what was approved by God and nothing else.
And so I surrounded myself with women, like girls at the time, obviously.
But growing up I did it as kind of a way to like pick out which one would be the best beard.
And so like which one would be the best cover up so that I could like have that, you know?
Now Nathan had a specific look in mind for his childhood beard.
And so she's going to look like Brittany, like it's going to be a great old time.
It will be best friends. So I always had these friends who were like blonde,
like calmly skinned like Brittany.
So throughout my life in like junior high and stuff like I had girlfriends,
but like we never kissed or anything.
We just were like besties and I like just like made up the excuse that like I couldn't kiss
for religious purposes, but then I went and kissed my boyfriend behind their back.
Wait, did he say boyfriend?
Yes, he did because Nathan had a boyfriend in middle school.
And the two of them met in the most magical teen movie way I could imagine.
So we found each other through Jim class.
So we like we're in there and it was after one of our Jim classes and we kind of gave each
other the eye, you know, like you know when you give someone a look and you just know that you're
thinking the same thing. Who gave it first? Me.
I'm a very like upfront person when it comes to love. So I like gave him a look and then he
gave it back and then we did that for like about a week. What did it feel like to get that look
back from him? Oh, so empowering. So empowering. And where you like, oh my god, this is what it must
feel like for. I was like, this is sleepless in Seattle. I was like, this is the love Meg Ryan
is feeling because like for me, I never felt that with any girl. No matter what I did, no
matter what I tried, I couldn't feel what everyone was talking about and what was shown in the movies.
But in that moment, in that locker room, it was like a little spark of like contentment.
From that little spark of contentment grew just a sweet adolescent relationship.
From the outside, Nathan and his boyfriend just looked like two bros hanging out,
like best friends, but truly? No. So we like held hands, cuddled, never had sex, but we just
were like cute and relationship and it was so innocent and pure and it was just like it kind
of felt like just us against everything else in the world. Nathan knew in the back of his mind
that this wouldn't last, not just because it's rare for seventh grade relationships to last past
seventh grade, but because he would grow up and so it is boyfriend and they'd each get married to
a lady. But also when you're in seventh grade and you've got your first boyfriend,
it's hard not to dream about the future. Even if you know that what you dream of your future
is not at all what your future is going to look like. Like I imagine just like graduating
high school together and then going to the same college and then like getting in the cute
apartment outside of Utah and just like running away and like just like maybe adopting like
I don't know like some sort of like bigger dog that's like for mountains.
Nathan and his boyfriend did not end up with a big dog that's meant for mountains. It ended
poorly, which again is not really uncommon for middle school. Nathan in modern terms ghosted
his boyfriend not because he didn't care about him, but because he was afraid. Nathan was
getting older and getting older has significance in the Mormon church. So like I could at 14 I could
bless the sacrament instead of just passing it out to the congregation and it just really scared
me that I would have that on my plate plus a guy because I thought I was already doing what God
didn't want me to do and then to do that and plus move up in his church. Like I was scared of my
religion more than my love. So moving up in the church without a secret boyfriend, teenage Nathan
tried to not be gay. I started talking to this girl I met on a Facebook chat group and she was my
same age and we connected because both of our moms well her mom just passed but my mom was just
really sick and we were like oh sick moms we connect with like terminal illnesses, yay.
And then we started chatting and I was like this girl's perfect she'd be the perfect beard
and she lives like out of state so no physical contact. So I told my friends at high school
that like I had a girlfriend I showed pictures of her but of course the long distance girlfriend
doesn't make him straight. I didn't know how I thought I could just push it away and pretend like it
wasn't there and like cover it up and so I put on the facade of how everyone saw me as this happy
smiling Nathan and Nathan never showed any emotion but happiness so everyone thought Nathan was great
and Nathan was fine and so I just kept that up forever.
Pushing his feelings away and covering them up didn't make Nathan straight either.
It made everything worse on the outside Nathan appeared to be like every other faithful Mormon boy
in his community and on the inside. I felt like a trash human. I felt as if me as a person that
is living was not worth living. I felt as if who I was and who I am was basically sentenced
to a life of damnation and that I could change if I really wanted to and that if I didn't change
I wasn't trying hard enough and that I was just a mistake that got accidentally made.
Nathan thought about death every day. He struggled with severe anorexia sometimes eating just two
meals a week and he tried conversion therapy. Not in official conversion therapy he just made up his
own. I like forced myself to watch straight porn once a week. I sometimes went to like high school
parties or like just random parties and like forced myself to make out with women or girls. They
weren't women yet and I forced myself to do those two things at least once a week with the making
out and twice a week with a straight porn. It didn't work and that was devastating to him
because he just wanted to be the person that he thought God wanted him to be. You know that feeling
when you're like running and running and running like one thing I'm running through like a pit
of sinking sand and nothing's happening and I'm just stuck and then on the other hand when I was
with a guy I literally felt like I had a jet pack and I just like zoomed off and it was just like
Whitney Houston singing all the man that I need and she's just so in love and empowered and my
reign is shooting through her house and she's in love.
So that was high school for Nathan. Messaging with his long distance
girlfriend, watching straight porn, making out with girls at parties and just desperately wishing
he were straight and then he graduated and high school was over and for a lot of non-mormon
closeted kids this would mean you are free. You are done with high school, go off to college and
be yourself but Nathan was a Mormon and he had other responsibilities. So in the Mormon faith
now men can't go on an Mormon mission. Well men are required to go on a mission for two years.
A Mormon mission is overseen by a mission president and this guy helps the young men
in their efforts to spread the word of Mormonism. The boys don't usually drive cars and
they have a specific uniform. They have conservative suits or white shirt sleeves with a big square
name tag and their mission on this mission is to convert people to Mormonism. Nathan's mission
takes him to the Florida Panhandle in southern Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia. It's hot and humid
and he's got to wear a full-on suit and ride a bike everywhere and it's intense in every way.
The days are highly highly regimented. Nathan lives with another Mormon elder which is what
they're called. They are each other's companions which is to say they are roommates who do
everything together like everything all day just in case they're ever alone and could possibly
masturbate. So we wake up at 6am we do exercise for 30 minutes, shower, get dressed, eat breakfast
within 30 minutes and then at 7am we have scripture study, individual and then from like 7 to 8
and then 8 to 830 we have comp study. So like we read a scripture together or like we talk about
a topic of religious standing and then we go out and you just have to cross flight until a lunch
and then after lunch you go back out and cross flight so you just knock on doors and then after
that you go for dinner and then after that you have to cross flight again until 9pm and then lights
out by 9.30 and that's Monday through Sunday. In other words that's seven days a week.
Okay I checked on a calendar I was like what that's not even a day off. So Monday through Sunday
they were out talking to people about God which is not my personal idea fun but
so this is how Nathan would do it. He used a voice that he now calls his straight guy voice.
Okay okay.
Hi Dora. My name is Elder Woodenerton and I'm from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
and would you like to hear a message of God today?
Nathan's efforts had mixed results. I'm not going to blame the voice. Okay it's just that
not everyone out there is a Mormon and not everyone wants to talk to a stranger about God.
I went out there and there were people that were atheists, there were Presbyterians,
there were Baptists, there was on Pentecostals, there was Jehovah Witnesses, there was
everything under the sun and I didn't even know about them. And honestly I knew about Baptists
for like movies but I didn't know about any of the other religions and I didn't even fathom
that someone could be an atheist. And I was just like oh like Jesus take this wheel because your
boy is burning. Oh gosh I just think of little baby Nathan having his mind blown, going door-to-door,
meeting all kinds of people. There's one interaction that he had that really stuck with him.
We come upon this gay man and I didn't know he was gay at first but as soon as he talked I knew
which is bad to say because not all gay men have a gay voice. I admit I have a very flamboyant voice
but he did too and I was just like oh so we like I just start with my spiel and I was like oh would
you like to hear about the book Mormon and a message from Jesus Christ today and he's like oh like
I don't know if it's for me I'm gay and usually like Christ and I don't get along you know
and I was like I respect that but like I do believe that like God and Christ love everyone.
Would you like to just hear a message because like as a missionary in the Mormon church you also
like kind of have to hit a quota like of how many people you spoke to a day and if you get like a
new person to teach and so we were like super close to the quota so that's more what I was thinking
about. He was washing his car and I just shared a simple scripture I believe it was John 316.
John 316 is the thing that people hold up at sports games I have no idea why but
I can tell you what John 316 says are you ready? God so loved the world that he gave his only
begotten son that whosoever believe it in him should not perish but have everlasting life
but I read that to him and he's like oh thank you I'd love you guys to come back sometime
and then I'm walking away with my companion feeling confident myself I was like yeah we just
got another person and my companions like oh he's not worth our time to even like continue because
he's gay and either he's gonna fall in love with one of us and he's not gonna be full because like
if he's living that lifestyle he can't be an active member of our church and in my mind like
it was like an earthquake because I was just like oh well you just stated what you feel about me then
and you just did that whole judgmental stuff and so I tried to combat it and I was just like
actually like if you wanted to like maybe there's a way you know maybe maybe God does love him
still and fully and maybe there is a place for him in the church and he's just like elder it's
a waste of our time Nathan felt like what he always feared was true that there would be no place
for him in his community if he were openly gay but when he thinks about that guy how he was like oh
Mormonism on thanks but no thanks Nathan doesn't just feel sad and scared for himself he also feels
jealous I was really jealous that he decided to like live his life and just be himself
and not giving a flying fuck about what someone else thought he didn't care probably if he ever heard
my companion what he said he would just be happy and proud and for me I was like it resonated with
me because I got what he was saying because for me I was out here I was teaching people I thought
the church was a good church and I believed in it but I knew that I was different and I knew
that the church wouldn't accept me if they knew who Nathan was he was literally like I was 24-7
in a play that acting gets exhausting and lonely the kind of lonely you can really only feel when
you're spending all your time with people who have no idea who you really are Nathan is with his
companion all the time but he's also alone and the two of them have a cell phone but it is
strictly to use to talk with people who want to meet up for some Mormon teachings or in case of
emergency but your boy called his mother every day bollied she didn't know that it was like because
I was gay um she just thought it was because I was homesick and really depressed but I called her
every day for those six months I approve of this as a mother just everyone pause the show
call your mom if you don't have a mom call your friend's mom if you don't have any friends call me
I'm a mom I count Nathan's mom has a background in psychology and she tells Nathan look I get it
like you're homesick you're anxious you're depressed but you have to take care of it you have to
call the mission president and explain it to him it doesn't matter that it's taboo to leave early
or that the Mormon church won't pay for a flight home just talk to him Nathan uses that
emergency cell phone and contacts the mission president at the time I was in Georgia of all places
in august nats were everywhere your boy was died and I was standing in the middle of this field
like smelly manure everywhere I called him and I was like listen here I cannot do this anymore
I have depression I have anxiety I know you think I can do this and I know you think I have the
strength and that God will provide but for me God and I have spoken and I need to go home
so I can take care of myself and like not feel this horrible so I need to go home
and he was like okay okay
this seems like a good time to take a break right
I'm recording this on the heels of a record setting heatwave here in Phoenix, Arizona
for the past few days it's been over 115 degrees that's hot even if you are a lizard woman
like myself so I might be sweating more than the average person should sweat but I am not dehydrated
and it's because of liquid ivy if you don't know what liquid ivy is then I am assuming that you
don't follow me on instagram because I have been posting about this for years now there are
many of us out there people who just don't like the taste of water who are bored by it putting one
stick of liquid ivy in 16 ounces of water hydrates you two times faster and more efficiently then
just water liquid ivy is the number one powdered hydration brand in America and in my household
and it's now available in sugar free and if you've been listening to this episode I mean
you might have already cried I believe that's dehydrating I don't know go to liquid ivy.com
and use code ttfa at checkout and you'll get 20% off anything you order when you use that promo code
ttfa at liquid ivy.com that gets you a deal it tells them that we sent you I'm telling you
can I go wrong with the lemon lime flavor I'm truly going to go drink one right now because it's
115 degrees out
so we're back Nathan was on his two year mission for six months for six months he had to spend
all of his time pretending to be a faithful straight Mormon man and now at his request he was
being sent home and this is a big deal your mission is a big deal it's not like you're just allowed
to come and go as you please it's not like a vacation it's not even work it's you're calling from
your faith so it's looked down upon when someone ditches early no matter why they ditch early
and Nathan's family knew part of the truth that he came home because of his anxiety and his
depression but other people they just kind of let that rumor mill kick in they said rumors of me
like sleeping with women which in my mind I was chuckling like no other they're like yep that's
me like I'm just going around with all of these women all the time those sister missionaries though
and they're just like I had friends just shut me because I came home early Nathan went back to
living with his parents he enrolled in college he got a job and he just focused on that but
the only thing that had been resolved was Nathan's location he wasn't on the mission anymore
but he was still struggling with his sexuality and his religion he still had so many questions
I was sitting in my parents living room it was a it was like a Saturday afternoon like probably like
three o'clock and I was like you know what I'm never going to know if I'm actually gay unless I
just have just have full-on sex with a guy so I was like I don't know how to do that though
and so I googled I was like ways to have sex with guys and then the first thing that came up was
Craigslist and it was like their private area you know like where you could like search like
men for men women for women whatever oh yeah oh yeah yeah yeah so click on that and there was the
first one it was the first one I was able to click on clicked on it and guy was like looking right
now um super horny um wanting to be a top and I didn't know what a top was and so I was like okay
sure and he's like email me for like address and send a face picture so I sent him a face picture
and I was like oh I'm interested didn't know what he looked like though and he's like yeah
you're really cute let's meet up he's like here's this address okay you get in your car and you
and you're like I'm gonna go meet a stranger and have sex yeah I felt educated I was like oh
you know I went through a website like because like for me nor remember I grew up very naive
like I I didn't know where like even a penis went into vagina and they then got in his car
and drove but the address he had wasn't a house or in apartment or a hotel or a motel
it was an abandoned cement warehouse and I parked and I was like okay maybe it's nicer on the inside
um and he opens the door and it's just nothing in there just like empty cement rooms and then he
locks the door behind me I was scared out of my mind I was like I was chasing so bad at this point
you're like you're like fucking Craig I know I was like Craig did me so dirty I was like fuck Craig
fuck Craig so he takes me he locks the door and he's like okay follow me and so I was like okay I
guess I'm following him and then we go into this room and it was just a cement box literally
we like uh all beat up blanket on the ground and he's like okay lay down there and take off your
pants and then he stripped naked and he's like okay put your legs up I was like why and then
bought a being bought a boom he topped me and I am just laying there looking at the cement wall
I'm not making any noises and just like have a couple tears coming out because I felt so dirty
I felt so dirty and I felt so used
my family is home I walk in the door like oh where were you I was like oh I just went and got
juice with some friends and then went downstairs showered and pretend like it never happened
Nathan's first time was awful and also just as a fact-finding mission successful
I was like you know what I was attracted and it was a crazy experience and it was scary
but it proved to me that I was attracted to males
and yeah it wasn't the best experience to figure that out but it did it for me
he has confirmation he's gay and Mormon
so um what is your faith like at this point
struggling
struggling beyond words so I thought because I did that that I should repent
so I went to my bishop I called him that night actually and I said I had sex with a woman
and I need to repent for what I have done because I feel horrible about it
and he doesn't know it's a male and in my mind I was like but you know what God knows it's a male
and sex is sex and so I started my repentance process and the repentance process for having sex
and the Mormon church is long so it's 12 months and you're not allowed to take the sacrament during
those 12 months you're not allowed to do anything at church you can arrive but you can't speak
and so you just have to sit there during the three hours and just listen
during those 12 months I went to work school and church and that's it and nothing else nothing
more I didn't really hang out with anyone unless someone asked me and I just went through the process
trying to focus fully on God Nathan finished his repentance but he didn't finish with being gay
he knew he had more to do and the time had come to ask for help like actual help he needed to
let someone in to tell someone for the first time the truth about what he was struggling with
so does something really hard he called his bishop again and goes to see him again
I'm in his office at the church and I was like I need to tell you something
and I didn't tell my ex with a guy but I was like I deal with same sex attraction
and so I told him that and he sat there for a minute because he's an older man
and he was like okay he's like I'm gonna think about that and we can meet up at a later day
and in my mind I was like what the fuck like no one's known this and then the first person I
freaking tell just is like we'll get back to this at a later date and I was like five okay we'll
get back to this at a later date sir Nathan does come back at a later date it comes back a month later
and the bishop has an idea for him and in the state of Utah conversion therapy is not illegal
so like he doesn't have to be secret about it it is legal in 12 states in the United States still
and so he's like but there is this guy he's not a licensed therapist but he knows the tools work
because he used it for himself so if you'd like you could maybe like connect with him and see if
you want to do it I was like okay Nathan calls the guy and ends up going to his house to just see what
the whole conversion therapy thing is all about he was like really normal looking actually he
like had a light tan he had a blue shortsie button up on with like dark washed denim jeans I
believe they were from American Eagle he didn't have shoes on though he had like white socks on
because he was in his house and then he had like lightish like dirty blonde curly hair with no facial
hair and it was just like cut nice and crisp he was like really put together and he looked like a
a normal guy and then he's like okay so like with the conversion therapy usually we don't like
talk too much about it before we start because we want you to just like go with an open mind
and just accept it and he's like would you be down for that without having a full description of
what the therapy would be and for me Mr. Innocent and like snow white over here like I was like sure
why not he's like okay would you like to start tomorrow night I was like sure so first a session
of conversion therapy I went down to his basement he tied me to a chair the lights were off and he put
on gay porn and I got aroused and he shocked me because it was shock therapy and so anytime that
like he could sense like he could see that I got aroused because I was naked he would shock me
um and that went on for about two hours and that was my first session Nathan did this twice a week
twice a week he would drive to this man's home pay him money and go through this 100 dollars
a session we did that from February till April but the porn and the shocks weren't working so
the man said they needed to switch it up and then we tried water to torture therapy
the way he explained it to me is that he would it would help suffocate out the gay
and help me so I could focus more fully on the straight so like he would hold my head under water
for log periods of time until almost blacking out once I did black out and then that did not work
there was just one more thing they could try and then the last final one that he tried to do was
that he brought over this woman I didn't see her because I was blindfolded but he had us make out
and like have her like touch me to like help me like feel like physically attracted to a woman
and help me to like help me get straight I guess I don't know how else to say it um
and that did nothing and finally after I was like okay if this woman is touching me and she
is making out with me and nothing is happening like I give up I was like I'm done I can't do this
faith is like basically everything in life and on the show complicated putting your faith
in an organized religion is complicated that same thing that can give you community and grace
and support and love can also repress you and hurt you and shun you and shame you and confuse you
everything that Nathan is doing here paying a man to torture him which is what conversion therapy is
by the way it's bullcrap and I mean the American Academy of Pediatric and Adolescent Psychiatry
the American Medical Association the American Psychiatric Association basically every association
agrees that conversion therapy is bullcrap but he's doing all of this because it's the only way
he can see a space for him in his family and in his faith which is like saying it's the only way
he can see a spot for himself in this life and in the afterlife and he's doing it because
he's kind of seen it work in a way at least he's at least seen boys that he knew were gay
grow up and marry women and have a family something worked for them right so why didn't it work for him
again to use the professional terminology because it's bullcrap but Nathan had been hoping that it
wasn't Nathan like most people who are religious had always prayed it's what he learned to do when
he was little but his prayers were different now it isn't conversations it's me screaming at him
to take this away from me literally I just like scream through the tears and I'm just like please
just it always started so like in the morning church usually they like teach you a way to pray as a
kid and so it starts with dear Heavenly Father and then it ends with the in the name of Jesus Christ
Amen so I always started it with like dearly Father and then I just was like I'm doing my best
I am trying everything I can I'm going to the end of the earth to make you happy just please
answer this one prayer and take this away from me and don't let me be gay anymore just please
and that was basically it but screaming and then I always ended it within the name of Jesus Christ
Amen Nathan's family doesn't know about the conversion therapy they don't know any of this they think
their Nathan is just fine they don't know that he's run out of hope they don't know that he's picked
a day to die August 25th just after his 21st birthday
then I woke up got shot got dressed and went to work exactly how I supposed to
he works at a call center job for a nail rap company so he spends his day talking with women
calling in to order their fingernail coverings and just said goodbye to my co-workers like I'll see
him tomorrow Nathan went home and took a lot of pills that was his plan and then got myself to the bed
and I just laid down in my bed and looked up because I couldn't do anything else
and I just looked around and waited for me to go and then my eyes shut and the fireman came
you
when Nathan woke up in the ER he was pissed that's how I came out to my parents actually
I woke up from being out from my attempt and my parents like why'd you do it because I didn't leave any good
buy notes and they're like why'd you do it why'd you choose to go and I was like and I literally
held them I'm like I'm fucking gay and I know you don't want a gay son I know you'll want to deal with
this so just get the fuck out of my room because I don't want to even be alive anymore so why am I
here why are you here just get the fuck out then then I just kept yelling to get the fuck out
and then they all finally got the fuck out Nathan's parents did get the fuck out of his room and
Nathan was transferred to the psych ward he was angry he was alive he was angry that he was alive
and now suddenly he was an out gay Mormon man in the whole time I was in the unit and everything
I chose to just not talk to got it all I was just like nope you know what I'm gonna keep to
myself you keep to you we'll figure this out at a later time just not right now so I didn't
pray I didn't read the book of Mormon or the Bible I didn't do anything religious I just did Nathan
Nathan's parents came in for therapy and they started the long process of connecting
and understanding each other it was easier for Nathan's mom her brother is gay she grew up in
San Diego around a large gay community but Nathan's dad took longer Nathan and his dad would talk
but not about his sexuality for weeks and Nathan is irritated there's this big elephant in the
room and he wants to call it out and he gets the chance one day during one of his therapy sessions
with his dad when the therapist calls Nathan out and she's just like Nathan why are your arms
welded why are your legs crossed why are you blocking all of us out right now but I was like oh
you know I'm just like earthed right now and she's like why are you irked and I was like because
I am gay my dad knows I'm gay now and we're not talking about this and then I just like do like a
very dramatic head turn to look at him and he's just like sitting there like do I did like what the
he may have been sitting there like a do I doofus but Nathan's dad had still come to therapy
to see his son because you know what Nathan had assumed they didn't want a gay son that would be
easier for his parents if he were dead and Nathan's dad even if he doesn't know what to say
is proving Nathan wrong he's proving to Nathan that they do want him they want their son
Nathan's dad wants him more than he wants the comfortable life he thought their family had before
because he grew up in this really tiny town and you talk old Roosevelt you talk
and it's an oiling and cattle town either you own oil or you own a cattle ranch
and my dad's family did both and he just grew up very conservative didn't know really anything
I don't even to this day he doesn't know what gay sex is but the way I think about this with
parents is that like when their child comes out as anything in the LGBTQ plus community
it's kind of like they have to go through a morning of the child they once knew because like
you're a parent Nora and like as a parent like parents in my opinion like already have like
a basic generic plan of what their kids life is going to be like 100% the only unconditional love
in this world is the one you have for your parents your parents love for you is based in a lot of
expectation that started before you were even born yeah for context this is not to say that I would
love my kids less if they were gay if anything I'd love them more okay I love them no matter what
this is just to say that I think all of us are aware of our parents expectations of us and
those expectations are all different and it's not like our parents would necessarily love us
less if we don't turn out the way that they expected us to but maybe they'd love us differently
or at the very least they just need to learn a new way to love us if we aren't the same person
they thought we'd be that's Nathan's fear and it isn't unfounded or ridiculous even if you're
a parent and are like no we all love all our kids we do love our kids but Nathan's parents were
expecting him to be Mormon and to be straight and no behold I just like through some glitter in
their faces like change a plan bitch but like we went through that and now like we're getting
better like my dad asks me how a date goes or if I have a crush on someone and like
good lord he would have never done that like even six months ago and look at him now like and he's so
he's a great he's a wonderful man and so is my mom and they're wonderful because my dad's
entire side shut me out and will not communicate with me because of the shame a suicide attempt
brings upon the family and also the shame of a gay person in their family and my dad just didn't
care he's like fine then I don't need to communicate with you and so he just like left it behind
because he cared for me and they're slowly learning how to love this new version of Nathan
do you feel how big that is Nathan's stoic family oriented small town father turning his back
on the family who turned their back on his son because I want you to have absolute goosebumps
and be sobbing right now because Nathan's father loves him just how he is
but Nathan is also still learning to love this new version of himself
he tries to read from the book of Mormon but he doesn't go to church and he's trying to find a
personal faith now he uses the darkest day of his life August 25th to try to bring more brightness
to the lives of other people specifically young people like him suicide is the second leading
cause of death among people 10 to 24 in LGBTQ plus teens ideate or contemplate suicide at three times
the rate of their hetero peers in LGBTQ plus teens attempt suicide at five times the rate
and for LGBTQ plus teens who face family rejection their likelihood to attempt is 8.4% higher
it's a crisis some are calling it an epidemic when Nathan was laying there in bed dying
before the hot firefighters busted down the door okay I'm just assuming they were hot right
Nathan had a moment a moment of clarity if I make it through this then I will make sure that no one
felt like I did my entire life and if I do make it through then I will figure out a way to make
sure others know that they should live and that they need love because even though I don't feel
that love they need it but even with such an intense moment of clarity and a purpose like that
mental health is and always will be a constant struggle for Nathan keeping that love for others
and for himself will always be a challenge suicide is an illness you see someone with cancer and chemo
and you do not question that they need the treatment of chemo you believe them and you hear them
but if someone brings out that they are having suicidal thoughts or they are depressed you're like okay
here's like this like mantra book read these and maybe do some coloring and you'll just be fine
but it's an illness they're sick and it's something that they have to fight to find joy for every
day and to conquer so don't judge someone that has had a suicide attempt or who struggles with
depression because they're doing the best they're can and they're doing the best that they can to
just keep breathing every day like do you feel like oh I'll never be that way again or is this
something that you'll always be aware of and kind of have your like antenna up for I'll always
have my antenna up I there are still some days that I don't want to be alive in all honesty and
there are still moments that I just I want to be dead because I feel like
my presence in this universe isn't needed and that the the world will still be bright if I'm not
here maybe brighter and it's a fight that I have to I have to truly decide each day to keep doing
because if I don't I could consume me quickly
we try to be really careful on the show not to try and tie everything up too neatly because
life is not like that mental health is not like that so here's what it means for Nathan to have
his antenna up for him to make sure that he isn't consumed again a few weeks ago we asked everyone
or anyone who was following me on Instagram to record a voice memo to tell us how they were
and Nathan sent us a message and that Nathan in that message was not the Nathan that we met when
we did the interview it isn't the Nathan that you just heard but we kept that recording
so that when you hear it right after this bubbly inspiring Nathan you reminded that even people
who appear to be on the other side of something difficult they still carry that with them
Nathan still carries that depression and anxiety and his suicide attempt with him
and even though he's an inspirational speaker and he has a gorgeous Instagram at Nate underscore
when he still has days like this so how am I
and all honesty
I'm not good I'm hurt I'm depressed
I'm suicidal I guess to round it out what I am is broken
this past week I had a woman pass away from suicide that I met last year that helped me
with helping college kids like myself who are gay feel more comfortable and she passed away from
suicide and left her wife behind and so many people who love her one of my best friends
and tried to commit suicide last Saturday and my heart's heavy I struggle and it sucks
that I feel I must always be strong
so yeah I guess that's my answer right now broken
I'm Nora Mcnerney and this has been terrible thanks for asking you can find our show at ttfa.org
we are a production of feelings and cow an independent podcast production company
our team is myself Marcel Malikibu Jordan Turjan Megan Palmer and Claire Mcnerney
our theme music is by Joffrey Lamar Wilson you can always get in touch with us by calling 612
5 6 8 4 4 4 1 or emailing us terrible at feelings and .co
we are working on new episodes right now and if you have an episode idea for us reach out
send us an email call us or go to ttfa.org and submit your story idea
music
surprise there's more we actually have another podcast here at feelings and cow it's called it's
going to be okay it's a short daily podcast presented by the Hartford we're including an
episode of it's going to be okay right here because we thought it tied in nicely with this
episode of terrible thanks for asking if you like it you can find it's going to be okay wherever
you listen to podcasts
I'm Ralph and it's going to be okay uh I'm nine oh I'm you I'm not nine I was nine it's so
I'm 10 I just turned 10 like 10 like wait what so that's like 10 days ago but like
not 10 days ago um like 21 21 um but I'm funny I'm smart big brain oh
uh I like bugs I collect bugs
and I like box burgers the simpsons and my dog stacey she just shhh my dog stacey she's a shit
zoo and when she doesn't have her hair cut she looks like a ball of fluff come here so she come
I have a hard time falling asleep at night um and most about is because I worry a lot
I wanted to ask you can you say that thing you said the other night when you were falling asleep
you're good you're safe you're doing great you're good you're safe you're doing great you're good you're safe
you're doing great I mean if you believe stuff that you say like a lot then
not only the bad stuff but also the good stuff then you'll know like I'm good I'm safe and I'm doing great
I came up with it last night I was thinking of pancakes and it came to me
the pancake said you're good you're safe you're doing great
right
that pancake's name was Jeff you're good you're safe you're doing great you're good you're safe
you're doing great you're good you're safe you're doing great you're good you're safe you're doing great
youre good you're safe you're doing great repeat after me grown up and maybe kids
And I made a mistake in my mind.
But you're good, you're safe, you're doing great.
Repeat after me, you're good,
you're safe, you're doing great.
Now you, you're good, you're safe,
you're doing great.
You're good, you're safe, you're doing great.
You're good, you're safe, you're doing great.
Now repeat after me again.
You're good, you're safe, you're doing great.
You're good, you're safe, you're doing great.
All right, now stop repeating after me
You're safe, you're doing great.
I said, don't repeat after me.
You're good, you're safe, you're doing it.
I said, don't.
Doing great, doing great, doing great.
Okay, just stop.
I know somebody, whoever's listening,
I know somebody in the entire world
whoever's listening to this,
one person, maybe a lot,
or a peening after me, when I say stop.
You know, when someone says stop, you stop.
Right, that's right, that's consent, baby.
You're good, you're safe, you're doing great, and stop.
I'm Ralph, and it's going to be okay.
But it changes every day.
It's different for all of us.
I want you to hear your okay thing.
You can call or email us at 612-568-444.
That's three fours, one.
It's going to be okay to production of feelings and cope.
Today's episode was recorded by Ralph at McInerney Studios.
Our team is Megan Palmer, Marcell, Malikibu,
Jordan Turgeon, Claire McInerney, Dorissa,
Dorissa Witcher, and Eugene Kid.
Today's episode was recorded by Ralph at McInerney Studios.
This is the production of feelings and cope.
Toot toot toot toot toot toot toot toot toot toot toot toot toot toot toot toot toot toot toot toot toot toot toot toot toot toot toot.