Connecting Music To Sport With Blue Rodeo’s JIM CUDDY

This is the Boba Cowan podcast brought to you by Bet Rivers, download the Bet Rivers online casino and sports book app today. And as Monty Python would say, and now for something completely different, Dave Hodges with me and Dave, our guest today is someone that you will be allowed to introduce. Well I have guitars on my shirt if you look closely for a reason because we're going to talk to a good friend named Jim Cutty who needs no further introduction other than to say that when we are together, it's a flip of the coin whether we're talking about sports or whether we're talking about music. And usually I want to talk about music and he wants to talk about sports. So one way or another we clash but I'm all, I'm, you know, those two subjects go together in my life. And I think in so many other people's lives in our audience and in sports audiences, music audiences. And I think there are probably some questions that Jim can answer about how the two blend and why they do so. That's Dave Hodges. We're joined by Jim Cutty. I'm John Shannon. The Macau and podcast continues after this. Hi, this is Bob Macau and for betrivers.com. Hey, if you're looking for a sports book or casino app, you should check out the betrivers sports and casino app today. Play all of your favorite casino games for real money anywhere and anytime. Plus get in the action with each sports game with hundreds of sports betting options. And get ready to feel like a VIP because you'll earn both loyalty level points and bonus store points on every real money wager you make. You must be 19 plus available in Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 or speak to an advisor free of charge betrivers.com. Welcome back to the Macau and podcast Dave Hodgian for Bob today. And this is a special one, you know, for the last three and a half years, we have gone around the world, certainly all over North America to talk about sports, just sports. Ah, every once in a while, Man's Bridge comes on and we talk about the news. We broaden our outlook today. Jim Cutty, the lead singer of Blue Rodeo, Jim Cutty, the great Canadian entertainer, joins us. And this is where Jim, I actually take a step back and a Dave takeover. Oh, dear. How's that, David? You better ask Jim if it's okay. It's pre-arranged. It's okay. So just this background, I've known Dave since the late 70s and he's always had this affection for music. And now I truly believe Dave isn't one of our country's best sports announcers. I think he's a music, a music, aficionado that dabbles now and sports every once in a while. That's fair to you. Well, yeah, I wouldn't say affection, I would say affliction or abjection. I mean, it's, yeah, I'm, I'm, it grabbed me early in life and hasn't let go. And for the longest time, I've wanted to do a show like this that deals with what I will call the fascinating link between the two worlds of sports and music that make up my life. And let me simplify it this way. I meet a musician he or she wants to know inevitably who's going to win the Stanley Cup. And for that moment, I don't care because I want to know about their, their next record. And I think Jim is the perfect guest to help us understand why it happens like that. It's in both of us. We're not alone. Are we Jim? No, no, absolutely not. No, it's, it's, it is a industry wide. Well, you and I have plenty of discussions, but let me take myself out of it and I'll substitute a mutual friend, Paul Coffee, who would hope to join us in fact, and maybe if it works, we can do that another time. But when you and Paul are together, I'm told, and I've seen, it's as if Paul never wore a pair of skates when he's loose in a room with musicians, tell, tell some Paul Coffee and music stories. Well, Paul, most of my communication with Paul now is he sends me screenshots of what he's listening to on the radio with very cryptic text underneath. Sometimes his blue rodeo sometimes is Bruce, often it's Bruce Springsteen. But Paul is one of those fascinating savants that was perhaps one of the best skaters the NHL's ever known, but I don't think that he could tell you why that was. I think that Paul just knew what to do. Like so many geniuses, he just had this innate ability to do it. So you know, we've always, way back when when I met Paul and he came out to our little beer league skate, people would ask him all kinds of questions. He could tell all the stories about the NHL, but he couldn't really, he certainly couldn't make anybody better if I'm trying to give them any secrets about skating. And I've been around Paul a lot more with music and one of the things I think I told you when the last we were last talking is he knows a lot of people in Springsteen's organization and we went down to a sound check one time at the at the Scotia Bank place. And when Springsteen finally came out, he and Paul were talking and they just talked about arenas they played in and what it was like to play music in the arena, what was like to play hockey in the arena, all they did was exchange those kind of stories, you know, and it was, it was, it was pretty fascinating. Paul is, Paul is real. He has the music affliction too. He loves it. It's interesting to say that because my son has for when he was in a teenager, a teenager went to a, a going school, Benoit Lair's goalie school just outside of Montreal. And one of the kids that he tagged along with for two or three years was Max Weinberg's son. Oh yeah. And, and the Weinberg's, Max and Betsy Weinberg are crazy new Jersey devils fans. And their son was trying to become a goalie and they, and they said, well, a friend of the family is recommended that our son go to this goalie school in, in, uh, Stash Quebec and they was always the, who's the friend? Well, Mark Tamberder. So. Well, that, that also, that same, that same, uh, Springsteen concert, he, uh, Paul was talking to Max because I guess that they had somehow exchanged information because they were talking about goalie pads and I think that Paul was, was getting him. So we were with, uh, I was with another friend and, and Paul. And then Max was talking very nicely and then he said to Paul, would you like to come and join us for dinner? Now this is after sound check. And I know as a musician that Max wanted us to say no because nobody really wants outsiders to come. That's not Paul. That's not Paul. And Paul and my friend go, yeah, well, that'd be great. And I had to say, guys, our wives are actually waiting for us in a restaurant, in a restaurant having ordered for us. We can't do this. And as we were walking when I said, you don't understand. They did not want, he did not want you to come. He, he wanted you to say, oh, we have other plans, but thanks very much. That's great. So, so the, the whole concept that you talked about Paul's great skating ability and the great ability of athletes to play the game, do you, do you view the way you approach music the same way? Is it just a, something you can't explain or, or quite frankly, Jim, have you had to work hard at it every day since the day you picked up a guitar? Well, first of all, I think that's a great question because I think that that really gets to the heart of things. I think when you, when I'm around professional musicians, there is a shared understanding of how to play music and what they have to do. Certainly, there's a lot of hard work that goes into it. I'm, I'm around mostly veteran musicians, but people that that have put hundreds of hours into to playing their craft. Now when I go to, when I'm around people that are not professional musicians, I recognize the difference. I recognize that that people that are pros have some kind of any knowledge of how to do what they want to do. Maybe they're not, maybe they're not already there. Maybe they have to work at getting there, but they understand when things are in tune. They understand how a song structure should be put together and, and that's not something that everybody shares. So, so I do see the same thing. I think that I could describe what I do better than Paul could describe what he does. But, Well, when John said he was taking a back seat, I was driving the bus here. I didn't know he had great, great, great questions in his background. By the way, Jim, he's been saying about that about me since the 70s, too. You're not supposed to have the good questions. Look, I, I've been in, in your crowds, if you will, with athletes, with players who admire your ability to make what you do look easy. Are there nerves? I mean, do you, do you walk on stage and and just, it's just natural after all these times or is there a moment where you say, you know, you swallow hard and you say, I gotta be at my best and, and you feel pressured? I think that that's again is so, so much part of our, our world. So we all think that we're, we're backstage and we're usually there a couple of hours, even, you know, many hours before we play. And if civilians, we call them come into our world half an hour before we play, that's the only time when we realize that we're in a very different state of mind and that social engagement does not go well. People are internalizing things and, and we can talk to each other very easily and keep the same, keep it seen going that we've been having the whole time, but, but we're not in a normal state and, and, and I think that that's a way of us waging any kind of nerves. Because if you're nervous when you go on stage, that's not a good thing. I think that you then would have a chance, you'd have a tendency to be so too self-conscious and not do what you know you can do, what you practice to do and, and what comes naturally. So I would say we are not nervous before we go on stage, however, we're not in our normal frame of mind either. And, and I think that's a big part of, of being a pro, you know, I mean, I remember in university, I learned guitar from a guy who will never be close to as good a guitar player as he is, but he did not have the temperament to be a professional musician. It made him too nervous to be on stage, it diminished his skill when he got on stage and it's certainly diminished his creativity, but he's certainly had it in spades. I mean, he could just sit in a room and play beautifully and sing it. So it is a different, I mean, often I know you know this Dave, you'd be around, around a bunch of musicians and they seem kind of shy and socially inept, you know, they seem like they're, you wonder how they get up on a stage and yet I think it's that, it's that very thing that, that they have overcome way earlier in life to get up on a stage and feel like they are the focus and they need to do this and they don't even think about it by the time they hit stage. And does, does that change when you sing as an individual versus being part of a team at i.e. the band? Another good question, John, Dave, he's smoking you, smoking you. I'll leave the room. Leave the shirt. It is, there's a certain, yes, it is different to perform by yourself because there's a comfort in being with the band, there's a comfort in being with the band throughout a career because throughout a career you're going to have many lows and you're going to be criticized and you're going to be made fun of and it's a lot easier to take that with a group of your friends. But you do get over it and ultimately performing solo should be the same as performing with a band. Well, speaking of bands and comparing the sports band and a team, last week we spoke to Alex Enthopoulos who stressed the importance of a winning atmosphere in the Atlanta Braves clubhouse. How easy or how important is it for you dealing with a smaller group of people day after day and night after night to make it simple, get along and what happens when you don't? There's a lot there, Dave, I think you're catching up. So there's, you know, this whole idea about the winning attitude, I mean, winning attitudes come from winning, right? And there's a lot of, there's a lot of teams that have, that have a loss, you know, more losses than wins that have a winning attitude. And I think in a band, you, you have to have a shared acceptance of standards. And I think that in my case, with Greg and the bands that we've been in, we have always had a very high standard for ourselves. And that can be in all kinds of gigs. I mean, you, you play gigs where you're completely ignored, where there's not very many people or big gigs where you're adored and there's thousands of people. And you still have to keep your standards really high. As always, interesting to come off stage after what you think was a successful gig and somebody in the band says, I just don't think we really had it tonight. And they could probably detail what they meant by that. Maybe that's not the time. So in terms of getting along, yeah, I don't know how bands do it, like, you know, having played with some bands that are legendary, fractious bands. I don't know how they do it. I guess they do it for the love of money. But there is something so harmonizing about playing music with other people that it does seem to override any personal conflicts and you get over things. But it's something you have to work at. I mean, to be a band for 40 years, like we are, you have to work at your relationships. You have to be prepared to, I don't know, to eat a bit of crow and to admit you're wrong. And, you know, it's a strange life. I mean, sports teams have this same thing. It was always astounding to us that sports teams, they're men making millions of dollars, but they room with somebody. You know, they have to have a roommate. Well, maybe the stars don't, but most people have to, and they're called boys all the time. It's, you know, there's sort of a thing in sports where you want to keep them perpetually young. And I assume that's so that coaches can have control over them. But in bands, you do spend an inordinate amount of time with each other. You know, we would go from stage to hotel to a bus to, I mean, rarely apart during the day, maybe you can go off and do your thing. And you have to learn how to, how to get along. I think that also the reward has to be worth it. And the reward of playing music has to be worth putting up with everybody's idiosyncrasies. From your perspective, from your perspective, more egos in a dressing room or more egos on a stage. I'll bet it's pretty similar. I mean, there's a lot more people than a dressing room and there aren't a stage. But if you don't have a pretty healthy ego that you protect and project, you're probably not going to be a musician. I think that we all have to keep our egos in check because we understand how destructive it can be. But we certainly all have egos and that plays out. You know, we have this, this, this, this idiom in music where people listen to mixes. So when you're just putting a song together and you're mixing it and everybody will listen and they give you their objective view of what it, what it should, where the flaws are. And we call it the more mimics. And so everybody will say, you know, maybe a little more guitar would be good there. You don't have to be the guitar player, do you? I think the drums are a bit better. Ah, the drummer said that. So it's all the more mimics and I'm sure that hockey dressing rooms, sports dressing rooms are just like that. Everybody wants to carry the load and be the star. Everybody wants to be on the power plate, Jim. No, that's right. Can you have a good show with other good audience? Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think that what, you know, that's again about standards. You know, we have played, you know, there's one very many unique things about Craig, but, but Craig, my partner in Blue Rodeo, honestly, the more heinous the environment is, the better he likes it. You know, we once played, we did, it's tour in Spain. And when we were starting out in some very remote part of Spain, there was only one person in the audience. One. And Greg was thrilled. He was like, this is the most absurd gig. I love it. The band played very boisterously. It didn't end up being one, which I think Greg was disappointed about. But I think when you're starting out as a band, you're going to play to a lot of audiences that are not interested in you. Oh, they don't know you and they, and sometimes they think that you're an irritant. Okay. Here's another one. When we, during the Australian Olympics, we were taken over, because I guess that was when Toronto was trying to get the Olympics. And so we were taken over to play in the sort of Canadian designated bar. I think it was called the loose, loose bars, something like that. Oh, probably. Yeah, it was. Yeah. We were playing during some of the swimming finals or, or he eats anyway. And the Australians kept coming up, just saying, you got to shut it down, man. We're watching the TV. And, and that made us play harder and better. So F you, you know, we kept saying, you have a problem with the audio part of the swimming finals. No, we just kept playing. And actually we got, I think we got, I think we played to Thursday. And then they didn't want us back Friday. So yes, I think you can play to hostile audiences. You can play to uninterested audiences, and you can play to small audiences. And I think that's just the confidence you have in the band is that you, you play for each other. And ultimately there's some level of playing for each other anyway. So you get through it easily. I've heard you handle comments from the audience, and I think you do so in a way that adds to the show, never mind it, you prefer not to be interrupted. So you boo a bad play on a game. No, you know, when you're older than the coach, when you're older than the owner, when you're older than everybody, you start to see them as boys, and, and you feel badly for them. I only boo stars who leave our city and our team for greener pastures. So I boo the Sean Greens, I, you know, I boo, I boo those who, who leave us and, and reject this. And many don't. And I, and I boo, you know, Russians who support Putin, but that's about it. Oh, you're loud. Yeah. And, I mean, like, co-I-letter, no, no, no, thanks for what you did the rest of your life is yours. He wants it. Yeah, right. I know. Doesn't seem fair, but that's just the way it is, Dave. I mean, when Sean Green left, he said he wanted to be closer to his family. Now, he's 26 years old, and, and he's, we watched him drop balls in the outfield and did all this. And then he wants to go down to the Dodgers, not to be closer to his family, but to be in Los Angeles and to get the money, just say it, just say it. Don't give us the BS. So there you go. I still boo. There you go. I, I follow along here. I wish I could play the guitar. I wish I could sing better. I wish Dave could sing too, because I've been seeing him go on stage and he can't, but he's, and even though you, even though you're trying to tell him, he can't, he tries to sing. Two, two, two mentions of the word try. And Jim knows that I try. And that's, that's a song title placement intended for you. I do try. So, did you ever wish you, you, you would become a sportscaster? Because you've just proven you'd be excellent. That's strong, informed opinions. You don't have to end your career and start a new one, but you know, I mean, you know, you'd like some sportscasters and not like others for good reasons. I think that this reminds me of a story where I was put in my place. So on a plane and Ron and Don were about two seats in front of us. And I think it was the time. It was, it was a time of the controversy. I can't remember who Don had, he'd called them pukes. Remember that he was, I mean, yeah. And I think I said something in favor of the, of the, I get, we were talking. I guess when we were standing up, when we were leaving the planes, they were talking. And I think I said something about how, about that was cruel, how he treated them. And so, and they said, he said to the plane, oh, now listen. Where you've got a musician telling us, what do you think's about hockey? Isn't that interesting? That's the kind of. Deep I'd have to deal with that business. No, thanks. So we should say. You do, you do play hockey. How serious, I know the answer to this. Seriously, do you take it? Well, I think I used to take it to seriously. You know, I think one of the, one of these, honestly, fascinating things about hockey is that it is a contained space where people will exhibit all the frustrations that are inside of them. And people will act in a way that they're, they're going to act. And maybe that they hide in real life. And so I used to have more of a temper. But I also love the idea that there is this. Unstated, but, but accepted rule that when the game is over, all that is forgiven and all that is over. And so I think I used to be a little bit more intense than I am now. I'm sort of now tagging on to my son's games. So I feel like a, you know, a special guest. So it's not quite the same for me now. Oh, my turn. Can you. Don't fight boys. That's, that's a part of the bus business too. There's been a few, we've always had a few of those every once in a while. As Dave. A lot of these thoughts. So don't. It goes back to, you know, the difference between playing on stage and playing the game. Do you ever play through anger on the stage? Yes, certainly. Yeah, that's, that's, that's good. I mean, yes, you, you have to play through all the things that are going on in your life. I mean, we've played through passing of parents. We played through many breakups of, within the band of relationships. Not seeing your kids enough. And yes, I've been angry at people on stage. And, and I have learned to just see silently and not, and not certainly not act out. You know, though it's very, again, it's like that half hour before we go on stage. You don't realize how intensely you are feeling things and how intensely you're acting. And so you could easily act out on stage. I mean, you hear about it all the time, right? Like people chasing each other off stage, brothers punching each other. But you could easily act on stage in a way that you would deeply regret afterwards. There's a hockey song named the hockey song. Stop and Tom. There's 50 mission cap and, and the lonely end of the rink by the hip Tom Cochran's big league, Les Fogrody's, Center Field, that's sports related songs. If you've written one, I don't know it. I would say your songs are in one form or another love song. Have you ever attempted given your love of sports to put that into music? I do have a song, a hockey song. And, I wrote it just at the point where I was about to have a throat operation. up on my vocal cords. And so what I have is that song sung in this completely froggy voice. I was only, I don't know, maybe three or four days away from having the operation. So, but I do have a, I do have that song. And I think it's a, it's would be a worthy addition to the canon of sports songs. What is it? Pardon me? What is the song? That's called, he plays for our town. I'm about the pride that people have. I think it's about that misplaced pride that people have and the pressure that that puts on the individual that sort of represents that town. And that's no different between a band or a team as well, right? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. It was your, you know, the home of Nickelback and then the home of. Yeah. I'm scared to ask if that song is on record. No, it's not on record. It has, it's never been recorded. It's really still in that froggy state. Yeah. And some bands record songs. I think we can, we can realize this just so they can become arena anthems. You, you have not, you've not done that, right? I wouldn't do that. Well, it's not that I wouldn't do it. It's just that I haven't. And I think that they're better bands at writing anthems than ours or me, anyway. You think Neil Diamond knew what would happen with Sweet Caroline? I think he had a pretty good idea. Oh, I think, I think he knew, I think he knew from the moment he released that song that that was going to be a huge sing-along song. But no, he probably didn't know it was going to be attached. He probably thought it'd be attached to, to college football team. You know, well, I, I, I guess he's better hope he's a Red Sox fan, but that's the, that's where you see it, hear it more than anywhere else. By the way, have you seen Neil Diamond opening night of the play on Broadway and he's in the crowd and, and the, at the end of the night on you, it's on YouTube. It's fantastic. And they give him the mic and he just starts singing. Really? Absolutely. Absolutely. It's on YouTube. It is one of the great, it's one of the great scenes at a Broadway theater and it is, and the, and the place just, and it's probably 25 or 30 phones recording it, right? Wow. And it is just absolutely magically. You don't even have to be a Neil Diamond fan. Yeah. I'm sure that everybody's a Neil Diamond fan. You know, we used to share the same agent as Neil Diamond and the States and he told us that, you know, Neil Diamond for, I don't know if he has any more, but for most of his career, he was a guaranteed sellout at any venue. Then when he came to venues, venues are notorious about under estimating or telling the wrong capacity. And so they say, you know, we have 24,800 seats. And Neil Diamond never accepted stated capacities. His people would go in, measure the venue and say, you know, legally, this is how many seats you have. So this is how many seats you're paying us for. That's fantastic. So we're going to, anyway, take a quick break and we might put Cutty's hockey basketball baseball expertise to test and maybe learn about a few playlists to along the way. Jim Cutty, Dave Hodg, John Shannon, McCallan podcast, back after this. Welcome back to the McCallan podcast, Dave Hodg in today for Bob. Jim Cutty from Blue Rodeo is with us. Now, should I, do I say just Jim Cutty's with us or do I say Jim Cutty from Blue Rodeo? Because when hockey players sign their autographs, they always put their number beside or they write, you know, a guy like coffee writes H-H-O-F. So do you take the introduction of Jim Cutty of Blue Rodeo or do you take the introduction of Jim Cutty? It really doesn't matter to me. I also have a solo band, the Jim Cutty band. And I consider, I've had that band for 20, 25 years, or 28 years. So it doesn't matter how I'm introduced. And we know, you've already mentioned a reference to being mad at Sean Green. So we know you're a Jay's fan. Dave mentioned Kauai. We know you're a Raptors fan. And we know you love Big Blue. Can you put them in order? You know what? My parents lived in in St. Louis when my mother was pregnant with me and she didn't know anybody there. So she came to Toronto and had me and then we went back to St. Louis. So most of my young life, I dreamed about Toronto. I was in love with the Maple Leafs and we lived in Montreal and Ottawa and Bramford and all places in the States. And it wasn't until 67, when the leaves won the cup that we moved from Montreal to Toronto. So that is so deeply embedded in my DNA that the Maple Leafs are. You know, I was just watching, I guess I was watching sports last night. And they had just this little teaser about the hockey season coming up. And I felt this pit in my stomach. I thought, oh my god, here we go again. We're going to go through all this pain and turmoil. So, but yes, I'd have to say, I think it would certainly go leafs then the blue jays and then all the others together. You're not as old as I am, but I'm sure you get and will get as you grow older. The question, you think you'll ever see the leaves win the Stanley Cup again. And I have a selfish answer. I say, there are so few people that I meet that remember 1967 because of their age that I become the expert to tell them what it was like, what the parade was like, what what happened in the city when Toronto won the Stanley Cup. And if they do win it again, nobody will want to hear my stories about 67. So yeah, I hope I see win because the city will go will go upside down. But as long as I'm I'm selecting Miami dolphins, you know, that don't want anybody to go on the field. So, you know, they bring out the the champagne. I'm I'm in a diminishing number of people who can talk about 1967. And I guess in part of me wants to stop doing that. And another part of me wants to, let's to keep the story story to myself. Listen, I got to, I feel like we're at one of your therapy sessions. I think you can do it. You can do it. You can put that behind you. Before David, hold on. Before David, because he'll ask really intelligent questions. So when people see you on the street or in the liquor store, do they come up and ask you hockey questions first before music questions? They know you're a hockey fan. It's all music all the time. What's all, yeah, it's all music all the time. I think that people usually, there's a lot of people come up wearing J's hats or or or maple sweaters or something. And I always comment. And I jokingly say, I won't take pictures of somebody wearing a Boston Bruins hat, you know, they don't they don't know even what I'm talking about. But actually, it was funny because I met a caterer the other day. He's he's got a company called Major League Catering. And he said he's the way he started his company was catering the Boston Bruins when they'd come to town. And I went, oh, and he said, I know what you mean, man, I feel really conflicted. That was our little shared hatred of the Bruins. But yeah, it's mostly for me, mostly it's music. But today's thing about I've never heard anybody say they don't want the leaves to win the cup because they want to be the one that keeps the memory alive of 67. That is so unbelievably selfish. I can't believe I'm having trouble accepting this. But I know for me when I was young, I thought that I thought that the leaves won so many cups when I was young. I mean, maybe I should be happy that, you know, I was like 11 years old when I moved to Toronto in 67. And so half of my life, they had won the cup. And I loved all those guys, you know, we used to go to the to the shared in Mount Royal and see all the visiting players get autographs and their big hands, you know, a little hand hold up our autograph book. But, you know, as much as I'd like the leaves to win and I do want the leaves to win, I'd like the oilers to win too. I think that the oilers deserve to go far. Now, if they played the leaves while that would be that'd be fantastic. But as much as I hate some teams, I do love other teams. And that the oilers are one of those teams I'd like to see. I knew I would be admonished for something. I just didn't know what other than your shirt in me. Check this the second shirt reference. I dress up for the guest. You talk about people approaching Jim. John, I hope Jim remembers this. But we went to a Blue Jays game in a private suite. And I took Jim and another one of my favorite singers from the United States named Craig Finn, who is the lead singer in the band called The Hold Study, which is very different from Lurody. It's a rock band, pure and simple. And I wanted these two guys to meet each other so they could talk music and I could listen and talk sports when I could listen. And neither one knew the other. And afterwards we went for a drink. We walked out of the stadium and I think went to Gretzky's. And Craig and I were following behind actually was the other way around. Craig and I were ahead of Jim and kept turning around and wondering where Jim was because every 20 feet Jim would walk. He would be stopped by a fan and literally 20 more feet, another fan. And Craig turned to me and said, this guy isn't a big deal. And I said, I told you he was. And he said, this is ridiculous. I said, you mean we'll never get our drink. He said, well, yeah, that's part of it. So here's this, here's a silly question to lighten the load and compare sports and music. If you were a baseball player, Jim, and you walked a home plate, what would your song be? Oh my god. Do you remember that moment in the other guys, the movie with Will Ferrell and Marky Mark? They're getting ready. And I think he plays air supply as the, you know, we're all out of love. And Marky's, what kind of song is that? He said, yeah, that's going to get us up, man. We're going to get us up. I have no idea. I think that one of the greatest memories for me is when we used to get on to a Sinifaz city and watch, give me shelter. So I would say that rocks off, which is the first song on Exile of Main Street, that I would love to be associated with the energy of that song. Well, and so now every time we hear it, we'll imagine you in a J's uniform, you're bad left or right? I bet right. Okay, so now we know what side of the plate that you'll be on. Is there an athlete that you would like to meet that you haven't met? I think that my, my real desire to meet sports figures kind of, kind of finished in the 90s. You know, when I met, when I met some of the Blue J's and when I, you know, Doug Gilmore is about as great a sports figure I've ever met in terms of its performance, in terms of who he is in terms of what he does, in terms of how entertaining he is. And so, so many of, you know, Dale Howard Chuck and that whole level of sports figures. And I think I, those guys are so admirable. And if I was meeting a sports figure now, they'd be like 40 years younger than me. So I'm not all going to say, you know, I met McDavid when he was playing with the juniors and as nice, but he's a kid. He's 10 years younger than my kids. And so I think I'd rather just watch now. I, you know, when I first got to know some make beliefs, it was great. And it can also be horrible. I remember Bill Berg was a friend and I remember being at the game where he broke his leg. I thought I was with his wife. I don't want to know anymore sports figures. This is horrible. It's poor guy. So yeah, I think that's over for me. What about musician? What musician haven't you met that you want to meet? Well, I've never met Paul McCartney. I'd love to meet Paul McCartney. Wow. Matt Springsteen, that was, that was nice. I think McCartney is, I mean, though my vintage, we're just still crazy about the Beatles. And so apparently they broke up. So I still hold out hope, John. Some, some venues are more special than others, even though lots have been, not you, but it really bothers me when, you know, they come out and hey, this is our favorite place to play in the world. When you know it isn't, you know, the crowd, all two years, and it's one of those lines that always, always works for, for some people. But some venues are more special than others. And for you, Matthew Hall has to be on or at the top of a list you've played more than any other living band or, or, or singers. It's transformed out modernized, but in the old days or, or, or currently, what makes Matthew Hall suspensual. Is it, is the Anky Stadium of music that it isn't? I guess so. I mean, it's, it is, first of all, it's been legendary concerts there. It was one of the first concerts I saw when I was, when I was Toronto, came to Toronto, Perth County Conspiracy. So I have memories going back there. It's, you know, you asked us if we get nervous. I think that when we do hometown gigs, if they're going to be nerves, they're going to, they're going to creep in then, because you're going to be playing for a lot of people you know, you know, you know where they're sitting. But Matthew Hall used to be a more difficult room than it is now. It used to be a room that was so ambient that, that when you, when you did Soundcheck, you always thought, Oh my God, I forgot how, how echoey this building is when the people came in and it was all died down and it was great. But you had that trepidation out of Soundcheck. Now it's a little different, although it looks and feels the same. It's a little more, the sound is a little more contained. So it's a beautiful, beautiful place to play. But in terms of places to play, you can, in my world, you can never prejudge what's going to be a great place. Now there are two places in Canada that we never schedule gigs the next day. So that's Montreal and St. John's Newfoundland. And that's because those gigs are so high that the next day will inevitably be a letdown. Even if it's a good gig, it'll be a letdown. So we just don't do it. Part of St. John's is that you never know where they can get off the rock the next day anyway. But I mean, we've had incredible gigs in Maddox. We've had credible gigs in Sudbury and everywhere. And you just, you honestly never know what it's going to be like when you get there. Sometimes the venue itself can be a little beat up. But the crowd can be, especially now when it's all this post pandemic, pent up feeling of people being together and how happy they are, that it's said almost impossible to judge where you're going to have a totally memorable gig. Athletes are by nature competitive. I wonder if you're competitive. And I'll ask you this way. If I said Blue Rodeo is one of the top three currently active Canadian bands, which I believe to be the case, does it matter to you what your number is? One, two, or three? No, it doesn't. I think that there's, you know, there's a very few things that peak my jealousy. I'm everyone a band I knew got a little cartoon in the in the New Yorker. Thaisena note saying, that that gets me that I'd like to have. But I think that I've known other musicians that to whom it really matters they're ranking and to whom it really matters whether they win awards or don't win awards and or even get nominated. And I think that that's a bit of a fool's game. I mean, we all should think of ourselves as very different and we're all very lucky to have audiences. And, you know, it's a truism that Canadian audiences are very loyal. So people have long careers up here and they have great audiences and play all over the place. And if it's not as there's always somebody bigger, there's always somebody with selling more records, always somebody that seems more significant. And, you know, I think that just being relevant is is enough and should be happy with whatever you have. I mean, I think that we're very happy with with the career that we've had. And when we look at our audience and we realize how long they've stayed with us, be hard to worry whether we were one or 30. It doesn't really matter. Okay, last talking questions from me. How relieved were you when Austin signed? Okay, you want to know something? I was convinced that Austin would not sign. I was also convinced that if he did sign, he was going to take so much of the payroll, it was going to handcuff us for a long time. I made a bet with my sons. And now I have to buy an Austin Matthews jersey. So I was dead wrong on that. As I often am about my sports prognosticating. Jim, don't take that clip. Yes, Jim's off and wrong. Take that clip. By the way, just so you know, the story about the New Yorker cartoon, there isn't an announcer or a producer on this podcast that wouldn't sit at home and watch a game be a done saying, I should be there too. So that's something that's something the three of us have in common, saying, I should be doing that game. I should be there. So it's not just entertainers and singers that get a little angst and a little competitive. That's a little different. Hockey question. Can I ask one more kind of heavy question quickly? Quickly. So the answer needs to be quick. I'm going to say that athletes can be very undecided when to retire, but they usually know when their best days are behind them. I sense you might have answered the way I dared to answer when I asked, name your best show. Tomorrow's show, I would say. Are you as good as ever and capable of getting better? I would have, I mean, I'm 67, so there are certain difficulties I deal with just from aging, but I think I do sing well, probably not as effortlessly I did when I was 40, but I'm singing and play well. But I think that the band that I'm in, the two bands I'm in, have never played better. I think that that's always possible with as you age, I think that you just, you start to become so attuned to each other's tendencies that everybody just plays. I mean, bands are teams, the bands have to harmonize what they do. So, you know, then that whole thing of retirement, I've always tried to call coffee about, you know, you chose hockey. You had to get out before you were 40. You know, we all had our choices. There is no, there is no best before date with music. I mean, somebody like Paul McCartney is raising the bar all the time. He's 80, right? He's 81, 81. So, wow. I mean, he can still perform at a very high level. Maybe not, again, the lovely performed at a 40 or 50, but a very high level. Speaking of performing, your tour starts when and where does it start? I have a tour with my two sons that starts out east. I think in Miramashi, and that starts September 11th, and then Blue Rodeos back on the road. I think starting October 4th in Montreal, and that's our 30th anniversary of five days in July tour. Thank you for this. I'll just say the next time I see you, I hope and expect it can be the best that I've ever seen. But that's up to you. Thank you for the thank you for the pressure, Dave. Well, this has exceeded my expectations. So there you go. Anyway, it's always a pleasure talking to both you. Thank you. Well, the only guy that's missed out this on this show, Paul coffee, Paul coffee, he would have been good too. Well, we would have had a new three shows of coffees on. That's right. All right, guys. Have a lovely day, and I'll see you another time. Bye, John. That's Jim Cuddy. Dave Hodg and I will be back after this. Thanks to Jim Cuddy for joining Dave and me. Dave, we don't have too long, but I've always been fascinated in our long relationship. Your love of this of music versus love of sports. If I had a choice between sending you to your favorite artist in your favorite stadium and going to the Super Bowl, you'd go to the concert. Am I right to assume that? Yes. And you know, if it requires an explanation, you know, we all do do something for a living. And then when we're not at work, so to speak, we're doing something else that interests us that we love. And you got to go to work. You don't always have to enjoy yourself when you're not at work. That's a choice, but it's more easily done than I got to go and do that sports guest that I don't really want to do today, but that's how I make my money. I think the other interest in life always becomes uppermost if you have a choice, because you can relax and you don't have to wear a shirt and tie. So yeah, I'm at the concert and I'm enjoying myself and that's you can have all my life. Not to put you on this spot, your favorite Blue Rodeo song? Well, my favorite Blue Rodeo song, try because it's it's just sort of the one that that grabs you right from the beginning. You know, I mocked him by trying to sing the first few lines. It's and it shows him and his best in his best form always has and always will. That's Dave Hodge, and thanks to Jim Cuddy for joining us. Hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. This is the McCallum Plot cast.