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I am McAllen, that is John Shannon.
Hello, Robert.
Today, as with all other days.
How are you, Shani?
Great.
It's a beautiful day.
You know what I'm doing though?
You know what I'm doing these days?
No, I can't.
Spring cleaning.
Oh, yeah.
What does that mean?
God.
Well, in the house?
The whole house.
The whole house.
What do you do during the winter that makes it such a task?
No, no.
We are my wife.
My wife calls it the Danish death clean.
So this is the cleaning and you get rid of stuff.
So just in case somebody passes away or you decide to move on a dime that you don't have
much to move.
And it is amazing the stuff that I've been able to find.
It is crazy.
What is it?
Like stuff you've collected, put it stuck in the garage or in the closet or something.
Yeah, 100.
You don't use 100 hockey swatters.
Well, you want those, don't you?
I want, I want some of them.
So I got rid of 40.
I'm keeping 60.
You got rid of 40 sweaters?
Yeah.
What did you do?
Throw them out?
No.
No, no, I gave them to friends, gave them to my son.
He took 50 of them to his work and he gave them to the other employees at work.
And what kind of sweaters are they?
Like autographs?
Well, none of the autographs got like old.
No.
No, but good sweaters, like real sweaters.
I, off the top of my head, there was a Sergei Federoff, Detroit Red Wing sweater that got
like gold.
And why did you have one of those?
Somebody gave it to me in the Red Wing organization one day.
Oh, it just happened.
It's not as if I paid for them.
Okay.
So, but things like that.
My wife's a book collector.
We have boxes and boxes and boxes of murder mysteries.
I don't, I don't call them murder mysteries for her.
I call them research.
Cause she's.
Well, when I moved, I, one of the things I did is I got rid of about 400 books.
Oh, I just put it in a box and I don't know.
A son of somebody I can't remember who came and picked them up.
He wanted them.
Oh, good.
Great.
Have them come over here.
We have boxes.
Yeah.
Well, I still have a room full of books too.
No, it's not the books.
The kind of thing you think you want them.
You think you want to keep them.
Yeah.
Mine in a shelf, you know, in a room someplace.
It's not like to junk in a non-sitting, they become part of the furniture.
Yeah.
But you know in our business, you get, you got to the point where everybody sends you
a copy of their book when it comes out.
I know.
So you get one of everything.
I have eight boxes of those to go through.
So, yeah, how many boxes of your own book have you still got?
None.
Really?
You've gotten rid of all of them?
I have six left.
Really?
And apparently they're all they're all claimed for.
I'm just waiting to go to the United States to mail them.
Because if you mail a book from Canada to the United States, it's $28.
You mail it from the United States, it's three.
Really?
So, so when you go down the buffalo?
Yeah, I will make a trip and I'll take a boatload of books to mail and go from there.
Mind you, I mean, when I read books now, I read them on a Kindle.
So I have 100 books on the Kindle.
So why not just leave them on the Kindle?
So, well, you're lucky if you only have six copies of your own.
It's been 15 years or whatever.
Since I wrote my book, I still have probably 500 copies.
Are you really?
Oh, sure.
Well, one of the things we did, it came out and traded paperback.
Yes.
Well, I had hardcover editions made and they were only made for me.
Oh, I see.
So they were supposed to be a gift or something?
Well, yeah.
And I numbered them and signed them and blah, blah, blah.
Well, I still got hundreds of those.
I got boxes and boxes of those still kicking around.
Plus, I've got, I don't know, 100 copies of the book and in trade paperback.
Wait, we should do a contest, Bob, and the winner can win an autographed.
Well, who will limit it?
Yeah, sure.
I'll give it away.
I don't know who would want it.
Yeah, but here's the deal.
You can give them away.
Then the postage is $19.
Yeah, well, nice idea then.
Thank you.
Okay.
Well, maybe Canada Post will sponsor it and when we can do that.
Yeah, maybe they want to do that or FedEx.
Let's get our sales group on that FedEx.
Yeah.
They'll get to just sell anything.
That'd be great.
We got to get out of here.
We'll talk though, just the two of us today.
No guests.
We'll be back after this.
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And Shannon back with you, there are many things we haven't talked about.
That's inevitable, but we have not talked much about the Dubas firing and almost nothing
about what happens now or who his replacement might be.
Is there anything particular you want to say about it, you know, in a generic sense?
You know how I feel about it.
You're pleased.
Well, I'm pleased that they got rid of them.
You know, I know that they, and usually a person is fired from that kind of position
and there's no plan in place for a replacement.
Maybe somebody has somebody in mind, but it takes them some time in order to do the deal.
Very rarely is somebody fired in the day later or two days later, the replacement is
hired or announced.
And that's certainly the case with Shanahan and Elise.
I don't think they have a clue, do they?
Well, quite frankly, I think that the Dubas's press conference last Monday, eight days ago,
was the red flag for Brendan Shanahan to say, holy smokes, he may not manage here.
I better go.
I better do some due diligence.
I better have a short list.
And so in parallel with negotiating with Dubas over the next two or three days, Brendan
had to put his head together with the board, I think, to say, okay, if Kyle isn't the manager,
who should we get?
Who's available?
What kind of guy do we need?
And by the time Thursday came and the decision was made by Brendan and the board not to bring
Kyle back, I think that he had created some sort of list.
Do we know what that list is?
No.
I don't think we do.
We have some supposition, obviously Brad Tra living, who has now been replaced by Craig
Conroy and Calgary as the general manager, should be on the list.
But anybody, Mark Hunter, who is the owner and big wig at the London Knights, should be
on the list and be talked to, who was a former leaf employee.
But other than that, it's going to be a question of, well, can a guy get out of a contract?
Who does Brendan want?
How important are the leaves?
Does anybody have the appetite to, does anybody have the appetite to take this job?
But you believe Dubas essentially took himself out of the running.
He was not really fired.
The issue here was not his performance.
What was that issue was that he was making 3.2 million.
Yeah.
You told me before we started this that they offered him four to stay.
My understanding is they offered him four to stay, yes.
And he wanted six.
He wanted more.
Yeah.
So, but which means he wasn't fired at all.
He essentially walked away from the job.
It was an salary thing.
But now, but if you listen to Brendan on Friday, that's not what he said.
And so where do you, what do you, what words do you take and what words do you believe?
And that was the amazing thing about the press conference on Friday.
You know, Brendan did this soliloquy that was, first of all, not a, I don't think there
was a piece of paper in front of him.
And he went through a timeline like he was Lawrence Olivier.
He was brilliant at doing it.
And quite, in essence, quite sympathetic.
And as the time went on, he, then he made the allegation that, you know, the, the people
that represent Hyle came back to them Thursday and said, we want more.
We want a change in the offer at which point that was a brief conversation.
And then the decision was made.
No, we're not doing that.
We're not going to, we're not going to bow anymore.
The other thing that should be mentioned, Bob, and I know this is out there and, and
but is that there were members of the board, the Mapleley Sports and Entertainment Board,
who were not very happy with Dubas's performance on the Monday press conference, not just
Brendan, there were members of the board.
And I was told specifically it was the Rogers board members who were very unhappy with his
performance.
And that kind of pushed, I think, Brendan a little bit farther down the road to say,
okay, we better have a replacement.
We better, we better find somebody to do it.
And I suspect a lot of that was because they did not want to be put in a place as they
were in the Messiah's area negotiation a couple of years back where Messiah got the
world.
And he did get the world because he got, you know, a, he was coming off a championship,
you know, yeah, he was, but he had done what you asked him to do.
Yes, you must had not.
No, I know.
But when you look at the performance and the financial performance of the two teams, the
Leafs are probably equal to the Raptors.
So a part of that, you know, is a part of that performance is more than wins and losses.
But there was, there was, it was not just Brendan who was disappointed with the words
that Kyle said on Monday.
There were members of the board that were disappointed with what happened on the Monday.
So it, I think it kind of evolved.
I do think that there was a point where Kyle thought he had a deal done.
I think he started to tell people, don't worry, we got a deal done.
Then, you know, he, he sent the email to Brendan saying, yes, he did want to be the
manager of the Maple Leafs.
But by then I think Brendan had made his mind up on the Thursday night.
No, I'm not going through this anymore.
Now that aside, these guys were not friends in the end.
These guys were, they were professional acquaintances.
I do think they had different philosophies on how to build and run a team.
I do think that it bothered Kyle at times that Brendan would veto trades.
Well there is the story out there that Shanahan was in the allegation of some too involved,
very involved in things that were supposedly or should be the general manager's responsibility.
Like trades.
Well, everybody has a boss, Bob.
I know.
Except you and me.
Well, yeah, that's right.
And you know, I think that's been a good thing for me.
The question is, is Shanahan staying?
And the answer seems to be yes.
Yes.
And and here's another question.
Further entrenched, Bob.
I would even tell you he's further entrenched than ever became.
So there are many people who look at the who are looking at a list of candidates for the
job and are saying, well, this guy won't take it because he wants the authority to be
able to run the team.
He wants to be the general manager, but he won't let Shanahan essentially give him permission
to do what he wants to do.
Correct.
I think that's fair.
I think that that and I think if you're a, if you're a manager of some state, you're
standing, you would say if they offered you the job or you negotiate, we're negotiating
and say, who has final authority on trades?
Well, sure you would.
And and that might, that might disqualify a ton of people in this scenario because, you
know, there are, listen, there are names out there.
For instance, I think Doug, I think Doug Armstrong's names out there who already has a job with
the same loose blues.
He's got three more years left on this contract.
Yes.
How are you going to get around that?
Well, I, you know, I think things happen.
I think that there might be, I think, you know, Doug Armstrong has a tremendous relationship
with Tom Stillman in St. Louis.
And perhaps if he says to him, I, you know, I've got the, I've got the chance of a lifetime
to manage the team that I grew up as a kid.
Um, you know, Armstrong's making him.
You know, all you are is, is, is the president's.
Yes, man in Toronto.
It sounds like well, Doug Armstrong would not come here and be the president's.
Yes.
Well, that's what I'm saying though, John.
I know you're saying.
I'm a great number of people.
But I'm giving you some, some background so that people can't say, well, he just said
this.
There's actual entities.
You throw out names all you want.
The guy who has the who right now in my mind has, it should be the number one choice who
has the best resume you could possibly have at this point is George McPhee in Vegas.
Now, big fee is not the GM anymore.
No, he is now the president of the team, right?
Correct.
Um, I don't even know if he wants a general manager job.
Well, yeah, and he's not from Toronto, although he's the reason.
He's from Guelph.
Yeah, I know.
That's what I say.
He's reasonably close.
He's Southern Ontario kid.
Why?
I don't, I don't know why George would even contemplate it.
I don't think he'd want, he wants to leave Vegas.
I mean, not for the taxes alone.
Well, I think he's very, I think he likes it there.
He's very happy there.
You know, he and I talk a lot about, you know, living in Vegas and where to go and what
you do.
I think he's extraordinarily happy being there and he's got a great team.
Maybe on their way to a Stanley Cup.
Who knows?
And a very successful franchise.
And I think that there's always challenges.
And here's the thing, if you work for Bill Foley, now that's, you know, Bill Foley might
be a tough guy to work for too.
Yeah, that I don't know.
Well, most individual owners in any sport are demanding guys.
They are.
They've gotten to where they are because they, they ask the right questions and make sure
I got it.
I got it.
So, so, and there are times that Mr. Foley might be a little cantankerous, but that's
okay.
George has learned to manage that.
George is in a great spot.
I don't know why George would even think about it.
I agree with you, but you know he's the name that you should.
If you're looking for a GM, he's a guy you should call.
Don't you think?
Yes.
Who do you think is a better resume right now in the NHL or outside of it than McPhee?
I don't know.
There's anybody.
Well, I don't know.
Well, so George has never won the Stanley Cup.
But look at what he's done in Vegas and look at the team he put together.
Yeah.
Look at the moves that have they have made.
Yeah.
And even the last couple of years where he wasn't GM, you have to think that he has
at least a significant role in that.
Well, he and Kelly have a great relationship.
Right.
Which speaks, I think, to why would you, why would you jump from a relationship with,
you know, two quality guys like Kelly and George to one where you're not sure.
I agree.
Hey, listen, Brendan and George are two alpha dogs.
I'm not sure there's room for two alpha.
Oh, look, you know, you know me.
I would have gotten rid of Brendan too.
Yeah, I then for that.
Everything else for that reason, you know.
Yeah, it's difficult.
I mean, if you had gotten rid of Brendan and Kyle and assuming the coach, boil, boil,
boil, boil.
That's a leadership void, Bob, that really created a challenge.
You know, I get it, but with the kind of thing you were.
But the summer that the Leafs are facing with the math.
You were gone for months before, you know, that decision would have been made.
Like if we lose in the playoffs or if this happens, then this is what we do.
You make it sound like this board.
Yeah, we've got this board hasn't got a clue.
Well, there's only one person really that lives day to day with the two teams or the three
teams of the four teams and cares more about it.
And that's Larry Tan and Bob and his guy, Dale last man.
Okay, I'll buy that.
And the other four, two from Bell and two from Rogers, this is, you know, protecting
an asset more than it is anything else, right?
Sure.
So, but you know, as well as I do, Larry, like Larry would be distraught over what has
happened to his basketball team, to his hockey team, to his soccer team, Bob.
It's soccer teams, but it doesn't get near the attention that the other two do, but his
soccer team is a disaster.
So I get it.
Those are, those are thinking, but I just couldn't imagine.
And remember, this is a company that doesn't have a permanent chief executive officer anymore
because Michael Freesdahl left and they have an interim CEO and she's trying to herd the
cats between the Maple Leafs, the Raptors and TFC.
Yeah.
Well, the things are mess.
It's a complete and total mess.
And I think the people in, you know, the guy who owns 25%, I think he owns 25% of the
team.
That's right.
And is the most involved has to be held responsible.
Well, and let's remember,
We love to hold up the trophies when you give one.
And you know what?
Part of part of his happening, he was to stand up and say, you know, it's on me.
No, but that's, now that's a really interesting topic.
And we've touched on this the last couple of weeks, Bob, is they hired Messiah Yudhuri.
They hired Brendan Shanahan.
And that was Tim Leiwicki, his fingerprints on, on both of those in order to be the faces
of the teams to take the pressure off the board so that we wouldn't be talking about
Tony Stafieri and Larry Tan and bomb and Dale Lassman.
That's why Brendan and Messiah there.
They're supposed to take the brunt of the criticism.
Well, at the end of the day, maybe they maybe they do take the brunt of the criticism.
But there is we know that there is a level beyond them.
Yeah.
And when when we don't think that them are the right them, then you go to the board.
And that's where I'm at right now.
See, I worked at MLSE for six years.
And our pal Richard for them.
Our pal Richard Petty ran the company then.
And he was very transparent with people inside the company and with and with all of his senior
staff.
And you got to you got to know the board.
Now, this was a board before the Bell Rogers purchase.
You got to know the board and you got to understand what the board wanted.
And the board was trusting the board trusted Richard Petty implicitly.
And then Richard was able to delegate and and even though he meddled more on the basketball
side than he did on the the hockey side, he he was the guy that could go to the board
and say, here's what we're doing.
The board would say, that's fine.
Like he was 95% he was a good CEO.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, it was a good minute.
He made a presentation to the board.
Oh, that made sense.
And the board said, okay.
And by the way, he made the presentation to the board, but every board member had been
previewed that that presentation and how are already bought into it by the time whatever
the case, whatever the case was, we should get Richard on to talk about this stuff.
But, but you could I get along fine with Richard.
I quite like Richard, but I knew Richard Petty before he was any of those things.
I knew him before he was running the sky dome.
And when I was at the sky dome every day and I'd sit out at at the wind the windows restaurant.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Guess who came by almost every day to say hello.
Oh, sure.
Richard Petty.
Richard.
And I thought that was a bit of a pain.
To tell you the truth.
Well, I'm trying to be nice to you.
Oh, he was that.
Yeah.
I don't think I don't know why whether that was the reason he was coming by, but he came
by to say hello.
He may have just been trying to be a good guy.
I think when you run a stadium of pain, but but you know what?
He did a pretty good job, didn't he?
Well, listen, I have said this before here and I've said it many other places without
Richard Petty.
There's no Maple Leaf Square.
There's no real sports.
There's a whole lot of things that he did that were pretty good.
The vision, the vision that Richard had of what MLS he was supposed to be was greater
than anybody else's vision for it.
But what what you know and quite frankly, I think he realized at a certain point he could
only take it to a certain level of which is why in the end they morphed towards Tim
Lei Wiki who had bigger visions and thought more grandiose than Richard did.
But I can tell you what, the company was in better shape in many ways when Richard was
there than when Tim was there.
Well, but Tim probably left because of the he had the hassle of running MLS.
And the board and working as the board.
Yeah, he didn't want to work with them anymore.
You want to run the place.
Yeah.
And I get that, you know, if they hire you to run the place, run it.
And so what you would used to happen when I went and my point about Richard, what used
to happen was that it at this time of year you would because the fiscal year for MLS
is July 1st to June 30th, you would pre-presenting all your budgets right now to the board and
then say, and then Pat Quinn would come in and present his plan for the team and how
much money he needed for the team.
And the board would say, yes, Pat, go ahead and do it.
Can you do it?
And Pat says I can do it.
And then Pat could do anything he want.
And if the only time you had to go back to the board was if you went over the spending
limit.
So it was all financial, right?
All financial.
Sure it was.
So why was Quinn making a presentation?
Pat was the president of the hockey club.
Oh he was president at the time.
Oh, okay.
Pat was the president and general manager of the hockey club.
Richard was the CEO, president CEO of MLSE.
So, okay.
So, and so the same thing, Glenn, Grandma would come and do the presentation to the board.
And every, you know, all of us that were department heads would do a presentation to
the board of no one and that type of thing.
So you would do a presentation to the president.
You would do a presentation directly to the board.
In fact, what happened was for the month leading up, the president, Richard, would help you
mold and frame your presentation.
And then he, so by the time it was polished and ready to go, he had endorsed it.
And then you would do the presentation.
Part of this was to create FaceTime with the board for his senior management team.
He was a really good leader.
He was a really good leader.
And when you look at the people around professional sports in North America now, there are Richard
Petty protégés all over the place.
Steve Greg and Tampa, you know, Petty.
Dave Hopkins in MSG, who's been on the show, Petty.
Tompa stories come back.
Look, one of the other things, I know this is a personal thing and the audience doesn't
care about this.
But one thing about Petty was he was available to the media.
And oh, he, Richard loved the media.
And in essence, then he was available to the fans.
Yeah.
The current president hasn't been seen for over a year.
He was, you're talking Brendan?
Yeah.
Until last Friday.
That's right.
Last Friday, when was the last time we even saw him?
We saw him, I think, from a distance in a fog, in a marine, in an arena.
You know?
Well, there's another, there's another reason why, you know, I don't get it.
You know, one day he'll come on.
One day he'll come on with us.
You say that one day he hasn't come on yet.
No, no, he hasn't.
How many times has he been asked?
Ten?
There you go.
And I don't mind telling stories out of school about it.
About the third time I asked him to come on, I said, Brendan, you got to come on.
It's John, you guys asked tough questions.
Yeah.
We, we asked real questions, Brendan.
Come on.
I like Brendan.
So I don't hear this like him either.
I've had him, I had him on PTS, I think, once.
Yeah.
But that was one that was part of the time he had taken.
Sure.
That was part of that.
And that was the machine, you know, availability for the Rogers radio station, the Bell radio
station.
He was fairly nice.
I have no, I have no issue.
He, he listened.
He's a brilliant communicator.
Brilliant communicator.
Well, then communicate because you're not communicating now, Brendan.
We'll see what happens.
See what, let him, let him make a decision or two first.
He's already made one this week.
Well, yeah, he made one.
And that's what we want to talk to him about.
Well, we got, no, he's got, now he's got to find a new guy.
Are you applying for the job then?
Is that why you want to talk to him?
Hell no.
Couldn't take the, why you couldn't take the pay cut now.
So, well, it's not a question of the pay cut.
It's a question of dealing with him.
Yeah, you don't like having this.
I don't like, I don't like, you know, if, if I'm going to fail, I can do it on my own.
Thank you very much.
I don't need any help from it from another person.
I've always felt that way.
And you know, God bless Rogers for us many years as I was with them.
They let me do that.
Well, you had, you had two, two of your cronies run in the place then.
So that was easy.
Kelly and, uh, Kelly and what's his name?
Kelly and Moore.
Oh, well, we let you do anything you wanted.
They did.
But I wouldn't say, you know, we weren't like tight friends or anything.
No, but, but if you wanted to rip the crap out of the blue jays that all the other.
Oh, I did that anyway.
I did that anyway.
They never, they never said a word.
Never.
Like, like, are we seeing to very much criticism about the blue jays right now?
Are we what?
Seeing very much criticism of the blue jays now.
I don't know.
You want to start?
I don't know what's happening.
Can you tell me what's happening with them?
Yeah, they're playing like crap.
They're going through what every team goes through at some point during the year.
Every team goes through this.
Yeah.
Even the best teams.
The problem is it's happening early in the year and it's happening against American
least these teams, you know, what's the losing streak?
Well, yeah, Yankees, Baltimore, Tampa.
Well, yeah.
And the problem is when you lose to those teams, they win.
So you're not getting any more from anybody else.
Let me write that down.
When you lose to those teams, they win.
That's right.
Thank you, Yogi.
Well, you know what?
You lose three or whatever it was to Baltimore.
You know, if you were playing the Chicago White Sox in the last three, that'd be one
thing.
Would Baltimore have been winning three games if they're playing somebody else?
Maybe.
Maybe not.
It's the proverbial two point game, right?
Sure it is.
And they're now what?
They're in last place, aren't they?
They're in last place, but they're still above 500 in the American League East.
So what?
Well, that means they still have a chance at a wild card right now, but I know it's only
me.
Well, they still have a chance.
Sure, you have a chance.
They better get out of this funk in a big hurry.
Yeah, because it's what about 10 games now.
They've won one of their last 10 or something like that.
Well, it really started with that four game.
The Yankees?
And all when they were in Boston, if you look bad, yeah, yeah, the four games in Boston,
and they haven't been the same since.
So I don't disagree.
We got to take a break.
Count on the channel with you.
We'll be back in a moment.
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It's a good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good.
And I'm going to be able to get a new video on this.
I'm going to be able to get a new video on this.
I'm going to be able to get a new video on this.
I'm going to be able to get a new video on this.
I'm going to be able to get a new video on this.
I'm going to be able to get a new video on this.
Correct.
Matthew is among those who you have to make a decision on.
Before July 1st.
So if you're going to trade Austin Matthews, it has to happen before July 1st.
On July 1st, he has a no move clause that kicks in.
So if you're going to trade him and the draft is late June, but I mean, I think that I can't
not imagine them even without an official general manager with the people they have in their
front office, including Brandon Pritum and Brendan and Lawrence Gilman, having their having
discussions with Matthews people already, right?
Are you telling me they don't have to hire a new general manager in order to make a decision?
Correct.
Really?
Well, the president's there.
He's he can make decisions.
Why?
And the guy and the assistant general manager, Brandon Pritum has been one of the best capologists
in the NHL for years.
So so become the general manager.
Anyway, that's okay.
So they're going to make a decision on Matthews with or without a GM.
What would you think their decision is going to be or have they made that decision?
I don't know.
I don't think they've made the decision yet, but I think they have to have had some discussions
with the Judd Moldaver, who's again, a guy who's been on the show, who's Austin's agent.
And, you know, I think that Matthews is asking for 14.
I think I have not heard that, but that's a logical number that if anybody's, I mean,
I will I put my name beside that number?
Yeah, I would.
I mean, Connor McDavid is making 12 and a half Austin Matthews.
He's not Connor McDavid, but there's a real perception that he's that important to the
Maple Leafs.
He thinks he's that important.
Yes.
And I think that if you're looking at, if you're trying to get a discount from him, he's already
making 11.3, Bob.
Well, I know.
So that's it's not a 14.
And keep him.
Or would you trade him?
What am I getting for him?
Well, who knows the answer to that?
Yeah.
You have to make a decision on what you're going to do before you do it.
That's where you need a general manager.
You have to make the decision before you find that out.
I think they're going to try to sign him.
I do.
I think they're going to try to sign him and I think they're going to try to squeeze him
down from 14, but I think 14 is the number.
So where are you going to get another $3 million?
The campus is going up about a million bucks.
Yeah.
You're going to have to move a few of the deck chairs.
You know, you're going to have that many deck chairs, John.
They don't have many $3 million deck chairs.
They don't.
They don't.
Well, that means you're going to have to get rid of one of your big four or maybe two
of your big four.
So you keep asking.
But maybe get rid of Marner and you know, you lander.
Well, you get rid of Marner, you're rid of Marner.
You know, you're you're you're.
That's almost a $11 million too, isn't it?
Yeah, I know.
But the problem becomes is whatever you're in because cash in cash out, this is going
to there's going to be probably something that says, if you want, if we if we trade
Marner, you know, how much money we take in back.
We have to take money back.
Well, of course you do.
Virtually the same.
Well, or it's something.
Yeah, virtually.
Yeah.
Or you're going to have to sweeten the pot and give them give whoever's trading for
him something else like a first round pick, which is valued between six and seven million
dollars.
So so that's it's it's it's a mess right now that way.
And that's why the timing of all of this stuff is is really so strange.
Yeah, well, you're stating the obvious.
You're not giving me that answers.
Well, because I don't I don't think there is an answer.
You know, I mean, I have the right thing to do here.
The right thing to do would be to go to in my opinion, the right thing to do would be
between now and the 30th of June in my opinion is to go and see what you could get on the
open market for Austin Matthews.
What could you get?
Right.
And could you improve your hockey team with three smaller parts rather than one big part?
I think you have to I think you have to look at it.
If you're not looking at it, you're not doing your job.
Well, you're looking for three three or four million dollar a year players.
Yeah, who have some significant assets that you have you that you don't have on the third
and fourth line right now.
I mean, how bad is so see the pro the real dilemma and because you can get easily distracted
by this hockey team.
This team is kind of like a team with ADD.
And that's because you can get distracted by the regular season.
You go, whoa, squirrel 109 points or whatever it was 111 points.
And and and so then you say, well, things aren't that bad.
But then you have to go on the back of your mind and say, well, things are that bad when
you can't get past the second round and you're supposed to be one of the elite franchises
in the national hockey league.
That's the problem.
I get it, John, you know, to tell me.
And you don't tell me.
And so I raise your voice.
No, was I raising my voice?
Yes, you were.
I was just passionate about this.
So so but do you blow the thing up, Bob?
Do you start?
Do you blow it up?
Yes, I think you have to complete completely.
What?
If that's what it takes, sure.
Wow.
See, that's the way I would trade at a little I would trade knee lender and I would trade
Matthews.
Those would be the two guys that get rid of Marner.
I'd keep now.
Maybe that's a mistake.
I have wavy trade.
All three of them.
I have waivered between Matthews and Marner.
I have waivered between Matthew too.
Sure.
And I keep getting told things, you know, that you're better off having Matthews, but I
you know, you're better have better off having Marner.
I to the point where now I don't know how to make a decision based on performance on
the ice.
You know, that's only part of the equation.
What are these guys like in the room?
Oh, yeah.
Who's the leader?
That's the net and that that's a really good point and I'm not sure either are really
good leaders.
Maybe they aren't.
You know, I think that I think that there was a lot of eyes open with this organization.
After the deadline, when the some of these veteran guys like O'Reilly and Shen showed
up and said, what this room's not really cohesive.
We need to create a cohesive environment.
And I and I think that there was a point where I don't disagree with you.
That may be the case.
Yeah.
Do you think Shen stays?
But he Shannon Riley, I think, well, O'Reilly, I think would like to stay.
But again, Luke Shen's making $800,000 now.
He's not staying for $800,000 because there's going to be teams that offer him three million.
Of course not.
And O'Reilly's making what?
7.5.
On paper, he's making 7.
On paper, he is because he got a giant $7 million bonus last July 1st.
Why?
Because he believes can't pay another guy $7 million.
No, but now.
And especially if they sign Matthews.
I would not be surprised to O'Reilly re-sign in St. Louis for a discount.
Whatever the case may be, maybe.
Yeah.
You know, I wouldn't.
But he's the guy you'd want to keep, but you could only keep him if you shuffle the deck
chairs at the top.
And we don't know if it isn't that the job of the general manager or are we assuming that
the president is now the general manager?
They're going to make all those decisions.
Well, what we do know is that the president and general manager have to be in lockstep.
That's the one thing we've learned, Bob.
They have to be together.
That means that the general manager has to do what the president says.
Period.
In an organizational chart, wouldn't that be the case in any company?
Well, not in sports, John.
Well, no, but titles are titles.
Tell you, tell you, you know, what titles.
Well, all I'm saying is that maybe in, you know, maybe the ink that happens, but it doesn't
happen in the sporting team.
Let me hire a general manager to be the general manager to make those decisions.
The president shuts up and runs the business.
Oh, I know it.
See, see that that's not necessarily true anymore.
That that organization should be changed.
But there those are just titles.
Those are just titles.
We've what we've done is we've elevated people like, you know, how many fine we've
elevated guys.
So tell me what the general manager is supposed to do.
If in fact, he doesn't have the responsibilities that we assign to a general manager like trades,
if he has no role in that, in other words, he has to have all those things approved.
What's his role?
What's he supposed to be doing?
He's the assistant general manager.
Essentially, right.
Oh, no, that's what that's all I'm saying is that all of this stuff has changed so much
over the years.
And yet we still, we still have this perception of the general manager does this.
And by the way, in certain cities, in certain teams, that's true.
But when you have a two headed monster like the Maple Leafs were, and I assume we're going
to have a two headed monster again with Brendan Shanahan and a general manager, you know,
the day to day operation is managed by the general manager.
And yet when it comes to transactions, the president will be involved.
I'm not sure every manager going to want that.
Another guy who's gotten a fair bit of attention is our pal Jim Troliving.
Brad.
Brad, rather, who walked away from Calgary.
Should he be getting attention?
Oh, I think he needs to get talked to.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But again, I mean, he's like, Brad is a thorough, complete hockey executive.
He understands the nuances.
He's a good, he's a great communicator.
He really is a good communicator.
He's the G.E.A.M. in Toronto.
He builds even within his own organization, if anybody that worked for him on the scouting
side, on the management side talked about his transparency and what there weren't, and
we're in a lot of secrets.
So Brad deserves some consideration.
I'm not sure I would wish this job on Brad though.
I like Brad too much.
Yeah, I get you.
Well, he's a guy that they will consider, I guess.
I still think Mark Hunter should be on this list, and I think Mark Hunter is the type of
guy.
Why?
Because I think what they need in this, in this format, when you have Brendan, with the
role that he has, you need somebody that can do the minutiae, and Mark Hunter's brilliant
at that.
And Mark Hunter's a brilliant evaluator of talent.
He's a better, in my opinion, he's a better evaluator of young talent than Kyle is.
My assessment is the Hunter won't take any crap from anybody.
That's maybe what Brendan wants.
Maybe what Brendan wants.
No, Brendan wants to run this thing.
Well, which is why he does it.
And I don't think Hunter would take the crap of the president.
Well, again, again, you and I, you and I, you and I, both with everything that you know
and what's gone on, you know, the negotiation would be who does what, and then how do I
do it?
You know, when Lou was here.
Well, sure.
Lou was here.
Lou had final say.
Yeah.
Lou had that.
And that's probably is the reason, at the biggest reason why he left.
He's still on.
But still remember the stories of the Thomas Plakannett's trade, where Lou went around
the room and asked the guys in his management team.
So what do you think of Plakannett's?
And most people said, no, we don't want him two days later.
Lou trades for him anyway, because he wanted him.
He thought he would help the team.
He didn't help the team very much, but that's another story for another.
Well, yeah, but you know, based on what I know about Lou, that's not unusual, you know,
Lou will ask, but he really doesn't care what your answer is.
What the asking mostly is perception.
I'm I'm I'm I want you to think he cares what you think.
Unless you say something that triggers something in his decision making process and says, yeah,
I've got to rethink that.
In hindsight, what do you think happens if they keep Lou?
If they don't elevate Dubas and move Lou, essentially they fired him.
I know he quit.
Yeah, no, he got he got he was told he was not getting his extension.
So yeah, so basically he was fired.
What happens to the Toronto police if Lou's still here?
If Lou's still the general manager.
You know, you can make a case he did a good job in New York.
Yeah, but they've had they've had a few bumps in the road.
They've had bumps in the road, you know, they, you know, they, you know, they've they've
they've had cap issues to think that Maple Leafs would be in a better situation had he
stayed.
Ah, that's a really good question.
I don't know, Bob, you know, I don't know.
You think he would have given Matthews 11, Marner 10, etc.
No, I think you have to ask a bigger question than that first.
What do you have given Tavares 11?
Right.
I think that because because that's the domino effect of the other two, right?
You if you don't if you don't sign Tavares, then you're not under the big pressure to
give the similar dollars to the other two guys.
Yeah, and history suggests there's no chance he would have done it.
No, even though he went even though when in New York, he did offer Tavares more money
to stay for the Islanders, but that was because I think there was a real belief that John Tavares
was Mr. Islander.
Well, and that obviously wasn't the case.
So, but wait a sec.
He was Mr. Islander up until when he left.
He was.
Was he not?
Yeah, but then he turned down an extra year and an an extra million dollars to go to the
sign with his hometown team and where's Pajama?
So what?
So they got mad in the island, but but Tavares was the New York Islanders.
Yes.
All the years he was in the NHL up until then.
Yeah.
So so that was the best player by far.
Yeah, I mean, I don't the question becomes would Lou have signed Tavares and I am, you
know, as a maple leaf as a maple leaf.
Would he assign to Tavares as a maple leaf or would he have found another way to use
that 11 million dollars more efficiently?
Well, or what do you what do you have maybe signed him for less?
Maybe he would know he wasn't going for that.
He wasn't going for less because other teams were kicking tires on him for that similar.
Well, maybe he just let's let's go.
So it's an interesting question though, isn't it?
Yeah, it is.
Really?
Like what would have happened if?
Yeah.
I mean, while I very quickly we got to take another break.
Former leaf coach, believe it or not, Paul Maurice is having quite a run with his Florida
Panthers.
What's also interesting is that things in South Florida are, you know, pretty exciting for
them.
The Panthers won game away, but the Miami Heat are also one game away from moving on.
And my guess, I haven't seen much of the Miami media, but my guess is the Panthers are like
a distant memory.
The Heat are getting all the attention, aren't they?
I think it's probably 70-30.
But you know, there's and the difference is between getting Miami attention because that's
where the Heat are versus Fort Lauderdale, which is where the Panthers are, but it is
South Florida.
You know, there's you know, can you imagine though for a span of time that you can go
on alternate nights to a conference final game in basketball, a conference game in
hockey?
It's kind of cool.
Well, sure.
And Paul Maurice has done a really good job.
They're both in the relatives.
They both just barely got into the playoffs.
Yeah.
You know, that's an extraordinary story.
Well, and when you consider like Miami, the Heat are, you know, a great franchise.
You know, Pat Riley's done a magnificent job for a long period of time.
Eric Spolcher has been there since he was like 16.
I'll give you that.
And they've won championships.
Yeah.
But the Florida Panthers who have only been the stand like a final once have really been
one of the one of the dog teams for a long period of time and dog franchises.
Let's be honest, they haven't been able to draw as much as they want.
This was when this occurred, everybody said, well, they're finally going to get a ton of
attention in South Florida.
And look what's happening down the industry.
Well, sure.
Down the street, Miami, the Heat are taking away all the recognition.
Yeah, I get it.
That's why I ask.
Listen, we got to get out of here.
We got one more break to do.
Well, let's do that.
And then we'll come back and finish up with John Shannon, Bob McCown back after this.
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We've only got a few minutes left and there's other news stories to talk about which we
haven't as yet.
The LA Lakers dismissed by Denver in four straight and afterwards LeBron was indeterminate when
asked about what his future was.
Well, he said he would consider retiring.
He said he would.
Well, so what?
I don't care what he said.
Do you think he will?
Yeah.
Do you think there's a chance LeBron will walk away?
Yes, I do.
You know, I remember the stories you were going to be, he was going to play long enough
to play with his son.
To the son.
But you know, in watching him play these four games and he was he was really good.
He was in the first half.
He was in the first half.
He was in the first half.
Yeah, he was.
But you know, he's 38, 39 years old.
He doesn't need to do anything.
He has more money than God.
Well, he doesn't need to do it.
But you know what?
He can still play.
But I got to be honest, I've never been a big LeBron guy, but the guy can still play.
And when he wants to be, he's the best guy on the court.
Yeah.
Well, no, second best.
He's been the second best guy in the court of the whole series.
Well, we who's been better joke.
Oh, wow.
On the other team.
Oh, sure.
Yeah.
And I'll tell you what, he hasn't been the next necessary, the best guy for the Lakers.
Davis has been really good.
I know that really good.
But I just think I just think it's a great player.
Oh, no, no.
Can't take anything away from him.
I would actually change the rules.
If he retired, I'd change the rules and have him inducted into the Naismith Hall of Fame immediately.
That's nothing to do with what we're talking about.
But I think I suspect he stays.
Yeah, I suspect that you wonder about where and tear on the body you do.
And does he does he really?
So what?
So he plays 40 games next year.
That big deal.
Who cares during the regular season?
As long as you make the playoffs, that's the way they do it in the NBA these days.
If you're tired, take the day off, especially with a talent like LeBron.
I think the key question for LeBron is not necessarily when he's going to retire is what
does he gonna own a team?
Because I think that's going to be part and parcel of everything.
He's going to have a team.
And here's here's the deal, Bob.
If Adam Silver this summer announces that they're going to expand and they're going to
Vegas and Seattle.
We know who's going to get the team in Vegas.
LeBron's going to get the team in Vegas if he wants it or is going to be part of the
ownership group in Vegas.
And so that might change the whole dynamic for him to decide to retire or not.
Yes, I've had enough now.
I'm going to go into ownership.
A basketball team mean?
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's going to own a basketball team before this is over before before he was.
The basketball team in Vegas, I think, would be a big mistake for a bunch of reasons.
I don't think they're thinking about it.
I don't know.
I imagine anybody is.
Look at the one thing Vegas has done is that the municipal government has opened up their
wallet and will pay for just about anything.
But this team five years ago, they didn't have any professional sports franchises.
Now you got a hockey team.
You got a football team.
Yeah.
You got a baseball team on the way.
You're going to add a basketball team to that.
It's coming, man.
It's coming.
I have a hard time seeing success.
That's different.
Well, it's going to happen.
To think about that, if you're going to get an expansion team.
I think LeBron's going to open it.
LeBron's going to own it.
Yep.
Maybe that's true.
That's speculation.
All right.
Baseball tomorrow.
Are we?
Yeah.
Baseball.
Talk about the Blue Jays problems.
Are you going to fire John Snyder like you fired Kyle Dubas?
Your next manager is sitting right beside him, isn't he?
I know.
That's what we're going to talk about tomorrow.
Well, okay.
Let's do that.
I'll leave it till tomorrow then.
Until then, have a good day.
Thank you, John.
All right, Robert.
And we, the two of us will see you next time.
Goodbye, everyone.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
♪♪♪