MLB ROUNDTABLE W/ DAVE PERKINS & RICHARD GRIFFIN

Hello everybody, this is the Wobble Count podcast and it's brought to you by Bed Rivers. Download the Bed Rivers Online Casino and Sportsbook app today. Mr. Shannon, how are you today? I'm good. I'm not as wet as the Blue Jays though. I was shocked that they kept playing last night. In the rain? Yeah. Well, I was shocked. You know, they won't die. I know, but a little bit of rain. This was the one sport where, well, a little bit of rain. Oh my God. Well, obviously it was a little bit of rain. Otherwise they would have stopped it. But I don't think they want to, they want to, at this point, they don't want to stop a baseball game if they don't have to. No, I know. You know, let's face it. Not a good, not a good four days for the Jason Boston, no? That is true. We'll talk baseball today. Richard Griffin and Dave Perkins will join us when we continue after this message. Hi, this is Bob McCowan for BedRivers.com. Hey, if you're looking for a sports book or casino app, you should check out the website at the BedRivers Sports and Casino app today. Play all of your favorite casino games for real money anywhere and anytime. Plus get in the action with each sports game with hundreds of sports betting options and get ready to feel like a VIP because you'll earn both loyalty level points and bonus store points on every real money wager you make. You must be 19 plus available in Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 or speak to an advisor free of charge. BedRivers.com. We are back with you. McCowan and Shannon here and with our baseball guys or two of them at least. Richard Griffin is with us and Dave Perkins are both along. You guys work together for how long? 95 to... 13. Yeah. 95 to 13. Yeah. I'm the guy, I'm the guy. I'm the guy. I'm the guy. So why? I mean... I fall. Why? His wife never forgave me. So... I'll be there forever grateful or it ruined my marriage. So were you happy when he left, Griff? No, he was my actual role model for writing because he hired me. I read a lot of his stuff and when he came back and started writing columns again, I loved it. He's the best. Somebody owes somebody money here. I think I owe money here. The way you're stockin'. This has been an interesting start to the Blue Jays season and I say start because I think we are still at the starting point. When you play 162 games, it takes a long time to really get going. And up until this Boston series really, the Blue Jays made very few mistakes. They played very well. They had an inordinate number of away games and still managed to put up a pretty good record. They had a Tampa Bay type of numbers but still they were pretty good. And now they've kind of fallen on hard times and mostly because of their pitching staff, I guess. Griff, do you think? I think that there's a combination of things. You mentioned that it's early in the season. I think the perception among fans and Canadian baseball fans, Canadian sports fans are the most sharing on social media anywhere. So as soon as you lose three in a row, four in a row, they go crazy. They overreact. I think a big part of that is playing in the American League East where all five teams are above 500. The bottom line is that the Blue Jays, even with the four losses to the Red Sox, are on pace for 94 wins, which is two more than they had in the last two seasons. But yeah, the bullpen once retired, 36 hitters in a row during the last homestead to start five games of the last homestead. So there is potential there, but they just have to find the right roles. And as you said, Bob, it's still early. Yeah. What's your assessment? This is a very, very strange season. I think now baseball has become like society. There's very, very rich in this very, very poor. There are so many really terrible teams out there. And the Jays have had a great schedule so far. They kicked us not out of bad teams, out of Kansas City, out of Detroit, and out of the White Sox, I mean, who are way worse than anybody thought they'd be. I don't think the Angels are great either. They're a two-man team. The Cardinals are a two-man team. And the Jays are like 10 and three against these horrible teams and against 500, below 100 against kind of the teams we figure would be decent. Seattle and Houston, Yankees. I don't know if you think Boston's good or not, but I think this is the way it's going to be all season. They're going to kick the crap out of these terrible teams and you try to break even against the good teams. And that puts you in the playoffs. And then from there, it's a crapshoot. I think they're right on schedule for this. They're not as good as they look when they're win-and-big against these crummy teams. They're not as bad as they look when they play. I mean, they looked horrible last night, but that's a one-off kind of game. Guys, every major pro sport seems to have more of a separation these years than ever. The bad teams are tanking. And they say why they're tanking, but a lot of it has to do with payroll. And I'm not so sure it's draft pick unless it's Connor Bader. But it's in every sport in Perky's right. There's a lot of bad teams, but you look at Tampa Bay's starting schedule, they got off to a jackrabbit start because they had that sort of a schedule. Baltimore too. Baltimore 7 and the East schedule. And the bottom line is the AL East is just now beginning to play intramural games, and that'll sort of level off the division because right now they're kicking the snot out of everybody. There were 71 and 32 outside the division at the beginning of this series. Go ahead. The difference for the J's this year is with this new schedule, you take 20 games away from the AL East. I don't care whether it's Baltimore, New York, Boston, whatever. You get rid of them and now you play more games against Colorado and these pathetic teams out there that I mean they're mailing games basically. You're going to win two out of three just by showing up. So it's I think they go way over their under over win total because that was based on 19 against the Red Sox, 19 against the Yankees, 19 against ball Tampa, blah, blah, blah. Well, that isn't going to happen anymore. So it's it's a it's the Windsor a whole lot easier to come by. And I think I think, you know, look at the money involved in sports. Look at these franchises are selling for if you're the Oakland A's. Why does it? Why should you spend money on players because your franchises worth billions of dollars. You take in multi millions in gate equalization, which are what do they call a competitive balance or whatever they call it, which by the way, the J's are going to pay for the first time ever this year. I mean, it's there's no incentive for terrible teams to get better. That's always been the story in Kansas City and Pittsburgh, right? That was what they what they lived on for the last decade. Yeah. Yeah, the pirates are off to a great start. You know, now that doesn't mean anything. They may still want 60, you know, unfinished last, but you know, they played well. But Richard, got to ask you the you talked about on pace for 94 and after the tune 91 92 game, win seasons, shouldn't the expectation that this team should be closer to 100 wins and is it fair to think that they should be close to 100 wins or is this the plateau that this team lives in? No, there's no doubt they should be close to 100 wins, but but perky knows very well that this team has a history of not stepping on anyone's throat. They're happy winning series that and that they say that all the time. Winning a series is what we're looking for winning two out of three and and they're one in three this year with a chance to sweep a series and they were six and 12 last year with a chance to sweep a series and it's like they roll out. They give their guys their load management days and and they don't go for the jugular and to your point, John, yes, they should be closer to 100 wins, you know, just rolling out of bed in the morning, but but they haven't and and there's a certain ability to reach that level. Once you reach that plateau, I think you find it easier to stay there. The J's haven't reached it in a long time, but you but the way you talked about that is that an is that an intentional thing from the front office from the analytics department or is this is this the human aspect of baseball? I think the analytics department, you know, whatever you think of Charlie Montoya as a manager, I think that he bucked the analytics department being an old school and being a minority and and all sorts of reasons for it. And John Schneider is towing the line and and the result is that guys are getting days off the bullpen. You can only work two days in a row and then you have to sit maybe two days. I think that, yeah, I think analytics is a part of putting a cap on the wind totals. Wow. Are you analytics guys? Like do you believe in it? Not me. I mean, we we see a different out field almost every night with the blue jish. You never know who's going to play. And you know, your center feelers care my or but what does care my or play two out of three at most? Well, looking back at the the streak they had with the bullpen, they pitched 15 15 no hit innings in a row to start that last homestead. And I do believe that analytics had something to do with it. They're looking for three because you've got to face a minimum three batters coming out of the bullpen unless you finish off an inning. But I think they're looking for windows where guys match up really well. And without analytics, it's kind of hard to do that like in the dugout. So they get all this information that window shows up. They bring in Tim Maza. And I think that after five days of of perfect baseball, once they left that window, once they had to start resting guys and and and you know, their other policy of not having guys pitch more than two days in a row, that messes with what they're trying to do. And the result is what we've seen starting on Sunday against the Mariners and going through the first few games of the Red Sox series. So like analytics does have a place in strategizing, but I think that like perky, I'm not a big fan at all. Well, I'm not I can tell you that for sure. There are some stats that are now prevalent that I don't even know what they mean, you know, the small sea, whatever. And it's like, but and the game survived and thrived for many, many years before this stuff started. We just sound like four old men now. That's all. Yeah, no doubt. Sure we do. But that doesn't make us wrong, though, does it? I believe you sweep over us and we'll be done. You know, I mean, we grew up watching an era of baseball and a way of doing things. That, you know, obviously we bought into and now it's something completely different. And I don't buy into this new philosophy. I don't see why a center fielder has to breast two out of every three days. I just don't. You can almost see in his case, because he's been hurt so much. He's in his 30s. He's been hurt so much. He's on after a turf as he was in Tampa, which might have been one of the reasons he got hurt so much. I could see them taking it easy. I mean, the outfield defenses, to me, this is the best thing about this team. The most improved part of this team by far. It's except the two corner outfielders haven't hit at all. No, well, I wonder if they're secretly wondering whether Springer has suddenly got old. You know what I mean? He's 33. He's been hurt an awful lot. He plays hard. Well, it could happen. But that's not what you were banking on. No, well, they got a pan for about three more years after this. So and they got him as a leadoff hitter. I mean, you don't put a guy lead off. You know, you put him at eighth or ninth of he's hitting poorly. But this, you know, he's hitting just over 200. Varsho was hitting under 200. I get it. You know, I'm a Varsho guy these days. Varsho is a good ball player. I love watching him play the game. I go back to the first first inning of the first game in a season when a guy hit the looper down the left field line. Varsho comes in back hands of all throws the second base to keep the double play in order. And I can promise you 13 pitchers sat up straight and said, what the hell was that? We don't do stuff like that. And that was in the first inning in the first game. I mean, I think it's made a big difference. But Bob, your point, Bob, about Springer, he may come back. He may start hitting again. But you might. I give you that. Your point, move them down in the order, move them down to seventh or sixth because it's hurting the team right now. And you know, you signed him as a lead off hitter, but he's not producing and you can't put loyalty over winning. I don't think you can say we signed you your early off guy, put him down in six or seven. And when he starts to produce again, then he jumps back up. But right now, you're starting one out, starting every game with one out and bow and Vlad coming up. Well, and then you know, you had Varsho hitting fourth for how long? And he wasn't hitting it all. Now they finally moved him out of that spot. But I, you know, you make the assessment that probably was too late. They're probably two or three, four games late in making that decision. You know, I kind of think I kind of think you got to go with who's hot today, don't you? Yeah, in the short term, but you know, it does level off. Perky knows I've watching baseball as many years as you have that these numbers level off. But you know, in the short term, you move a guy and then when it starts to level off, you put him back to where he belongs. And that's the simple as that. The other thing about the start that I wanted to talk about was the, you know, Perky mentioned the soft schedule so far. Well, that helped the bottom two in the rotation. Barrios and Kikuchi. Everybody thought, wow, these guys have bounced back there. You know, whatever rotation this is going to be top five guys giving you six and seven innings every night, keeping in ball games. But when they start playing the good teams, the competitive teams, the 90 win teams, then that's when you can assess Barrios and Kikuchi. But you know, both of them have shown like a 50-50 whether they're effective or not. And they need to be better than that if the team's going to, as John said, approach 100 wins. Well, that's, I think you're right on that. I mean, I would say too that the biggest disappointment so far this year has been Manoa. And I know you can point to certain aspects of his game that have been okay. But this is a guy who had become your number one starter and a guy that you expected to win a bunch of ball games and not give up very many runs. And he has been subpar, sub-ordinary. You know, I mean, I think we forget he's so young, Bob. I really do. I think we forget he's such a young player. Maybe. But he was young last year too, John. He was great. No, I know, but young people, young, young, even professional athletes and David and Rich, you know this, they waver. They go up and down and they, you know, it's called maturing and people mature at different states when your physical, when your physical side matures differently than your mental side, things waver. And I think I think we're seeing that with Manoa. Well, the other thing with the other thing with Manoa is, you know, he's a very confrontational guy. There's a bunch of guys in baseball that hate him, that don't like him at all. You know, is that good for him right now? Well, I think the thing that's held back, Manoa is the pitch clock more than anything. Early, early, early people told me two guys in the bledges will be bothered by the pitch clock. Manoa is bass now. Why they fit those two? I don't know. But when I watch Manoa, he doesn't look comfortable out there. He's a creature of habit. He has his little rituals, you know, starting with throwing the footballs pregame and all and all this. And he loves to wander around pumping himself up and playing Godzilla and doing all this crazy stuff that works for him. And the confrontational thing that Bob mentions is all I think part of it. But he doesn't have that time now. All of a sudden you look up and there's six, seven, eight counting down on the clock. He's got to get back in the box and go. I think he's been affected by the pitch clock more than anybody. I agree with Perky in that he doesn't have time anymore. But my time is broader. The time he doesn't have for me is broader than the time of the pitch clock. I was in that department. I was working with Manoa off the field last year, the last four years or three years. And this year he has become a media and promotion darling. And a lot of it has to do with his agency, his reps are giving him stuff to do that the team doesn't even know about. He's now because of his interaction with John Smoltz at the All-Star game. He's now their Tuesday morning MLB network analyst. And he gives 20 minutes of his time and that's where as you go, he creates more enemies than he's already got. He goes on and he talks about other teams because that's his role as the MLB network analyst. And I don't think it's good for him. I think as John said, he's a young pitcher, young athlete, a young star. He needs to let that grow organically rather than have his agency going out and pumping his tires all over the landscape. I think that hurts him as much as anything. But without compromising your position, Rich, wouldn't the club have anything to say with that? No. The club didn't know. No, I mean, we came out of the Rogers Center one day and he's shooting a commercial on the concourse and we had no idea about it. So they have jumped on a personality that can be promoted, that can be sold at 25 years old. They are going too quickly, I believe. You know, a total aside and I don't expect either of you to react, but Bob will understand, this reeks of Scotty Barnes. This reeks of Scotty Barnes on the basketball team. Too much too soon, man. Too much too soon. Well, overrated is what I would say. I mean, I don't know how I don't even want to rookie of the year. I don't know how he was okay. Yeah. But was he, did he look to me like Vince Carter? No, no, I'm just talking about. I'm talking about, as Rich talked about, outside influences. No, no, no. But I think that, and I do think that matters. And distracts a player. Could you just stay focused on the job you're paid for? I agree. The rest of it will come. If you do that and stay focused and become that picture that you think you're going to become that everyone thinks you're going to become by the 28 years old, then payoff, then collect the rewards. But at this point, I think back to Marcus Strowman, who was a different personality than Minoa was less sincere and was less cooperative in many ways. But it's the same. Do something, be an ace, before you start cashing in on being an ace. It's as simple as that. Yeah. Hey, what's, Perk, what's your thought on what Bassett's done since he's been here? I was a little leery at Bassett. I thought he was an OK pick up. I mean, but in his career, he pitched in Oakland and for the match. The two most picture friendly parks in baseball, really. And they're two of the most picture friendly parks. And now he's coming to a park you don't really know, and he's coming to a tougher division. You don't really know. You know, I don't think he can project as numbers. If he's a solid three fourth starter, that's what they paid for. You know, I think that's probably what he'll be. You can courage. Well, I just know that I've seen a lot of successful pitchers that didn't have eight pitch repertoire. And like the fact of Danny Jansen working and not working well with Bassett was because Danny Johnson had his opinion of what pitchers should be thrown in what situation with with Alejandro Kirk behind the plate. It's like working with a blank slate, a blank easel. The artist now gets to paint his own picture. And that's why it's more effective. But I'm not a big fan of a, hey, I got eight pitches and I'm going to use them all. You know, it's like who needs that many pitches? Yeah. But there aren't many pitchers who call their own pitches all the time. He is one. Do you think that helps him? Do you think that's a good idea? Either of you. It helps him mentally and the mental game is 80% of pitching. So like it helped him mentally to call his own game. That way if he fails, it's his fault. It's not the catch his fault. And most pitchers that I've known over the years need excuses. Like if you're throwing your best fastball and it's being hit for 105 mile an hour line drive, then there's you have to find something to blame. Otherwise, you might as well pack it in. If your best pitch is being conned like he was on opening day. But you know, the fact that he's able to blame himself and say, well, I can correct that by calling my own game that good for him. But I don't think it works for everybody. I just don't know with the clock that you have really enough time. You really have enough time to think about what you want to do. Or do you just come up with something off the top of your head? Well, between that and the technology of the pitcher being allowed to call his own pitches. And don't we? Aren't we seeing more of that? The fact that he can actually, you know, not wait for the catcher, he can actually call his own pitchers quick. Well, I think we will see more of it. I think more pitchers will decide to do that as time goes on. I just, I'm not a fan of it. I think pitchers are sort of finding out things to do. Like, Manoa turns his back on his catcher after delivering a pitch so that the pitch clock doesn't start until the ball gets back to him. So like if he gives himself an extra two or three seconds turns around, take it, then the pitch clock starts. Right. The other thing that happens is that if a batter calls his time out, you've seen a lot of Blue Jays pitchers like hold the ball till about three seconds just to freeze a guy. He did it with Verdugo on Wednesday. And it's a trick that a lot of pitchers, they're just learning how to use the pitch clock to their advantage. And I think that's a couple of examples, but it's going to become more commonplace that individual pitchers manipulate the pitch clock and the new rules to their advantage. Yeah. We're going to take a break. We're halfway done. We'll pause for a moment and then come back with more Richard Griffin and Dave Perkins are with us. We'll be back after this. 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This is the Bob account podcast. I am the aforementioned John Shannon of course, this with us as per usual. Dave Perkins, Richard Griffin. We are our baseball guys and we're in conversation with them right now. Perk Brandon Belt has been a huge disappointment so far this year. Do you see, you know, is this just early part of the year? You guys think Varshow will be, will hit and I don't necessarily disagree. But Belt looks like he's completely lost out there in my mind. You agree? Yeah, the other night when they pinch it forum with Kirk against a right hander, I thought, well, if you're going to pinch it for this guy, you might just go get rid of him now and you know, go look for another guy, you know, I mean, they took a flyer in this guy. I mean, not every three agent works out. They, you know, it's nine million. Yeah, that's not some anymore. So I mean, they took a shot. The guy hit what two 10 last year, I know batting average doesn't count, but I mean, the guy, you know, 208 or whatever it was last year, he'd been hurt. He's got some age on him and everything. But give them all a chance you want to give them. But once you start pinching form in critical situations, it's like, why do you have? I agree with you and defensively, you know, who cares what he can do? He plays first base. And he and I think the first baseman ought to play every night, but nonetheless, you've got you got four or five other guys on the roster that can play first base. If you need a four year old playing every night at first base, are you? What's wrong with you? Yeah, that's what I would do. I'm not the manager of the Toronto Blue Jays. You understand? For the record, Bob's worked so many games in a row on this podcast. Espinal is going to pinch hit for him tomorrow. So it's going to be going to pinch it for me. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I'd like with that. The starting picture. I'm not giving the ball back. The thing about Brandon Belt is that people, fans, social media, don't understand. A lot of times they don't understand that baseball is not a game of salary caps. And you can roll the dice on a guy like Brandon Belt and compare his numbers to the point. You didn't say he's had surgery and he should be bouncing back and pay him seven and a half million or seven million, whatever they're paying them. And it doesn't matter because it's not our money. It's their money. And if you want to roll the dice on a D8s and they did that with Travis Shaw and I see the same hitter in Brandon Belt as in Travis Shaw, that didn't work out. So like, you know, Kure Meyer did work out so far. Brandon Belt, you work out, but it's not our money. So God bless him, you know, I get that. Would you keep belt though? Or is it too early to make a decision? It's too early, but you see enough signs that he's striking out 40% of the time and he's not coming up big with runners in scoring position. So when they're working hard on getting them out, they're getting them out. So yeah, no, it's an experiment. I mean, Kevin Bizio is not an answer, but you can fill that VH roll by getting the first basement off his feet as we're all fans of or whatever. You don't need Brandon Belt. But the problem then is Luke is that 26 guy isn't even getting to play. So what are you going to do if you replace belt? Are you going to have two guys that don't get to play? So you know, they're paying him. He gets his at bats and maybe he's got a history that will level off. But as Perky was saying, it was a few years ago before or since he's really had a good offensive season. So do you think he's going to bounce back after he had surgery last off season? I don't know. But he's not going to be an integral part of winning 100 games. That's for sure. Yeah. Is there any... You can also speak to the farm system or lock their up. I was going to ask you about the farm system actually. Where are the guys that they can bring up and plug in? Like, I mean, my God, they just traded away both cameras. So I mean, what do they have down there? You know what I mean? Like, Tiedemann, everybody says so excited about a pitcher who's got 30 professional innings or whatever it is, great. Maybe he's the next manoa. But boy, the farm system isn't spent not too much. Or the next Nate Pearson, right? Or the next Nate Pearson, right? They used a lot of farm depth in trades. And they traded some highly rated prospects. And even those prospects and other organizations haven't really jumped up and done anything. So they're banking on the arms that they have down on the farm, AAA and AA. But position players, I mean, we see that in Lucas and Luplau or Luplau, whatever. The great, great nephew of Al Luplau. But you know, their position player inventory goes down to AA and single A and is still a couple of years away. So to that point, there's no one really better than Brandon Belt that could come up at this point. Right. But is that a classic case though, when you think about when you're moving prospects out, fielding prospects out that you're going to be able to fill them every spring with free agents, that's where the market is and you can fix it and you have to develop pitchers first perk, do you think? Oh yeah. I mean, they're an Alice Bender. They're a big spender now. They're a tax team there. They've gone the free agent road to build the entire pitching staff basically other than the NOAA, right? And Romano, it's all free agents, Bassett, Ryu a couple of years ago, Galsman a couple of years ago, you know, they've gone that road. So and they're going to have to keep going because they got like seven free agents this year that they're going to lose, you know, I don't know if they're going to lose them all, but they're going to lose a lot of them. So they're going to have to keep spending. I think, I think going back to the JP Richard era, the ill-fated JP Richard era, his focus was on having the best team possible in Buffalo and New Hampshire and Dunedin. I agree with this policy of having the best team in the organization being in Toronto. And you know, if that means you use your best inventory and then have to replace it or have to believe you can replace it via the draft and waivers and free agents, then God bless you. Let's do that. But you know, for 10 years of watching AAA and AA, you know, not win championships because who cares, but having your best future players, I don't think that's the way to go. I think I think this way of trying to win 92 to 100 games every year is actually the best for the organization. I think, Richie, just reminding me, I remember doing the radio show with Bob and pretending I knew a lot about the Lansing lug nuts and New Hampshire, almost more than I did about the big club sometimes. Yeah, well, that was the future and now the future is now. And that's the way that, you know, just the only way fans are going to come to the new ballpark or the new old ballpark. And you mean it's not for the poutine dogs? Yeah, it could be for the patios in the drinking areas. And the great thing about those, and we talked about it last time I was honest, that you can actually line up for food or beer and still see the game, whereas in the old set up, like you'd be gone for half inning lining up and come back and go. Well, it is as popular out there as I think everybody thought it would be seems to be basically sold out every night, isn't it, in the outfield at the restaurants? Yeah, that's more jammed tighter than it is in the behind the home plate area. Right. But you know, you wonder if they spent that much money on improving the outfield area and now next year improving behind the foul polls and building that wonderful complex at player development center, whether when that's all done, they will use that money to build more payroll. I wonder if that's going to happen because, you know, I can't believe they're spending as much money on payroll as they are, even with all the money they spent on renovations and building. Yeah. Right. And you know what's coming next year, this, they're ripping out all the seats behind on plate and building a field level restaurant with where you're going to enter by going down an elevator out onto the field and then into the restaurant and you can sit and find dine and the friends of mine who have been day one season ticket holders, they have a pair right in the first row behind the plate for which they're paying 7500. The bill for next year is 68,000. Wow. Almost 10 full, almost, but they get to be members of the restaurant. And say they're members of the restaurant with a chance to spend $300 a night on food on on dinner. So they can sit where they've sat for 46 years. Basically, they're going to bath a 10 times as much. They don't want to go to a restaurant. They want to go to a ball game. They're baseball fans. And the first two innings of every game is going to be like the platinum's of the make ball. Right. You're going to have a center field view and there'll be nobody in the seats because they're still having got there from their private club. It's no, and the team and the team doesn't really care because the team is interested in the revenues they're getting. Correct. And obviously they'll get a lot more revenue. Fewer people, a lot more money. And they don't believe that there are baseball fans. They believe there are event fans and that they're selling events, which is not baseball. So they had 160,000 people, I think, for the Seattle series. What's a good number when you think about early in the season? Are those people baseball fans? Are they event fans? Well, I think they're going to buy the $14 beers and scream and yell and carry on. They're marketing to the party people, not to baseball people, which is mine. Right. You're right. But they've always done that, but just to a smaller extent, as you guys probably are aware. I watched most of the first 15, 20 years of the Blue Jays from sightlines, which was in center field. And it was a private club. There were 500 people that were allowed in there. And I don't know what they paid to get in there, but basically they walked in. They had dinner. There were mostly tables for four or six. They're with their pals and they didn't watch the baseball game at all. But Bob, in terms of selling the event and Perky, in terms of selling the event, I have a 40 year old son who is like a huge baseball guy. He played in college. He coached in the OUA, my 30 year old son. Same thing. Baseball guy played in the US. And these are baseball fans through and through. And they would rather, if they were coming with nine friends, they would rather go stand in the new area, $14 beer, but still watch the game. And that's the thing about being, I'm not saying maybe I'm saying it's true that this is what they would rather do than sit 10 across and not be able to talk to their friends and interact with their friends. It's a chance and opportunity to pay. Basically if you buy that $20 ticket for the outfield, you're paying a $20 covered charge to get into this place. The entertainment is a ball game and the beer is overpriced, but they would rather do that. And they are big baseball fans. Well, many years ago, I was involved in a situation where we had a, we're going to build a possible arena. And it was at the time when private boxes were becoming popular. And I made the statement kind of off the top of my head, but I said, how long before we have an arena or a stadium that is literally no more seats in it. It's all private areas. They had that. It was called the Roman Coliseum. Well, okay. Actually, they had seats in the Coliseum, but nonetheless, the service was brutal though. I mean, come on. But look at, you know, I don't, I think we're close to that kind of situation. Boy, it's something to think about, isn't it? If you're going to go with the Atlanta basketball arenas half and half, right? The old, the old fire happens by the box. Yeah. Yeah. And in line of state, the Staples Center, which is now crypto.com, where the Lakers and the Kings and the Clippers for now play very comparable, like half of its private boxes. Yes. Well, I think that, I mean, obviously that's the direction we're going. And you know, at least economically, it makes sense. The people, but they pay 10 times as much, right? Well, listen, I'll give you a perfect example of the way things are going. I'm going to Texas and a couple of weeks for something. So the Rangers were home. I haven't been to that ballpark. I said, well, let's go see Ranger Game Blah blah blah. So I went on the website and I said, I get a couple of field level chairs and the, and each field level chair was $570 US. Wow. Plus service charge plus convenience fee. It was going to be nearly $1,600 Canadian dollars for two people to go to a ball game. And this is the Texas Rangers. They haven't made the playoffs eight years in a row. I get it. The stink in Texas Rangers. And I said 570. I don't want the whole section. You know what I mean? Like, like, what in hell is going on? Well, there's, there is that. You guys know what, you know, 1977 when the Blue Jays came into existence of a field level, the best seat was $7.50. But do you know what the best, the best seat at Dodger Stadium was at the same time? About 12 bucks. No, 450. Okay. Four dollars and 50 cents was the most you could pay for a seat to see the Dodgers play. Hey, John, I think I hear the dinosaurs coming through the floor. Oh, I know. I get it. Come on. But you know, that's what we've lived through. The best part of the Mr. Edison, I think I've invented the light bulb here. Come on. Now, what is going on? The best part of those 750 tickets was if you went through Dominion Store, I think you could get them for a bottle. You got them for six bucks. It's not only, not only were we talking about tickets at 450, we're talking about a grocery store chain that doesn't exist anymore. What do you guys? Come on. This is 2023. Wow. This is business. It, you know, Max Scherzer's making $43 million. He has to get paid somehow. Feel free to get the younger guys. Bob, Bob, to your point also is that more revenue, fewer fans, I think it's still that you only share with the visiting team on the attendance. So all that extra stuff that you're charging the membership for the private clubs and you know, to share that. Right. You have to keep it. I mean, they reduced the capacity by about three or four thousand. It'll be reduced even more next year. So that's just fewer seats that you got to share revenue with the visiting team and more revenue that you don't have to share. Yeah, I got it. Well, yeah, you look at the, we've been talking a lot on this show about Oakland moving to Vegas. And Vegas is, if they build the baseball stadium as planned, it's only going to have 37,000 seats. I mean, baseball's found that sweet spot of how many people can actually and will on a regular basis goal. That's the, that seems to be where, and, and so if you have a 52,000 seat stadium, you probably can charge less and find a way to get that. Well, if you got 52,000 seats, then you got 15,000 more seats. And what is the value of the majority of those seats? That's very, four dollars and fit, four dollars and 50 cents. Exactly. So you're going to spend millions, tens of millions dollars more to build the facility. And then you've got all this, you know, the economic reality is those seats aren't worth, they aren't worth building. The Blue Jays are going to be what, what's capacity now? 40, 42, I think, 42, I think. Well, when I was there, it was 50, and we had 50 every night. You're down to 42, who knows what it'll be next year. Yeah. When they do the renovation. The years you're talking about Bob, 50,000 every night to reach 4 million for 80 games. That's full house every night. That's right. And they did it. Yeah, and they did it. Well, at a conversation with Beastan several years ago, and we were talking about a new stadium and would you like to have one? And even then he said yes. And I said, well, what would you build? Well, they just built Milwaukee. You know, so he said, I want, I'm a walkie kind, I want him a walkie roof, you know, easy to open. Basically, it's an open air stadium that you occasionally close. And I said, how many seats would you put in this at this time, you know, Sky Dome or Roger Center was around, still around 50,000. And he said 35 to 40,000, you know, which is kind of, you know, that's Fenway. And we always figured Fenway, Fenway was one of the smallest, if not the smallest ballpark in Major League Baseball. Fenway, I was just thinking with all these amenities and everything like that, Fenway and Wrigley are still the fun places to go for me. I love going to Wrigley Field. I really do. I just think it's and they've found ways to generate revenue too, right? How would they? Roger's dating, still as good as they come. Yeah, bigger though. He's not just dating, still 50,000. Yeah, it's still big. Yeah. So it's, I don't know. The question is in the end, is this revenue going to be allowing this team to continue to spend money the way it has on players? Because I think, Rich, I think that's been part of the plan, right? Here's the revenue. Here's where we're paying. Here's where we're going to be in two or three years after the renovations. Where's the money going to go? Plus, we've talked, I think, last time about the TV ratings and how with the ownership being the same for the network and for the ball club, that to outdraw the Yankees game by game on the Yes network and sports net is really mind-boggling to think, even though it is a whole country, is that? And then of course, Rogers is able to manipulate the rights fees and show a break even or whatever. But you know that that's a big part of why they still want to spend money on payroll is because it's a must-see event if they're winning. A couple of quick things before we let you go because we're almost out of time. Teetham and are we going to see him this year? And it means you leave uniform? Yep. You do? So, Perk? Yeah, why not? I mean, somebody's going to get hurt and pitchers get hurt. So, you know, you're just going to be ready to come back. We are told somewhere June, July, whatever. You know, he was only okay before he went down. What do you do with him? You let him pitch at the major league level again? Do you put him in the bullpen? Or do you just forget about him? You can't rule anything. Now, guys get hurt. You know that. They always have young guys on innings counts and everything. The more pitching you have, the better off you'll be. You know that. If this guy can come back and help you, they'll find a place where he can help them. I mean, he's a free agent at the end of this year. Yeah, I know. You know, I mean, he would want to pitch. You will never go to the bullpen because it takes him eight hours to warm up. So the game would be a good one. But the fact that he's a free agent at the end of the year, I think, makes the decision easier. You don't have to stroke him at all. If you don't want him, you don't use him and he goes. Oh, exactly. Yeah. Before we let you go, Rich, what's your website? Griftsthepitch.com. And there's plenty of content and there will be a podcast coming up at some point. So have four old men yell at the screen. Okay. Oh, yeah. That'll be the, that'll be the hook. We wish you good luck with it with, with all of it. We thank you very much, both of you for spending some time with us today. We hope we'll be able to do it again very soon. Thank you, boys. Okay, catch. Richard Griffin, Dave Perkins, and we will come back to wrap it up after this message. When was the last time everyone agreed on what's for dinner? You want Chinese food, they want pizza, and someone is always craving froyo. Well, there's something for everyone on DoorDash. Ordering is easy. Open up the DoorDash app, choose what you want from where you want, and your items will be left safely outside your door with our default contactless delivery setting. For a limited time, our listeners can get 25% off and zero delivery fees on their first order of $15 or more. When you download the DoorDash app and enter code Bobcast23. That's 25% off, up to $10 in value, and zero delivery fees on your first order when you download the DoorDash app in the app store and enter code Bobcast23. Don't forget, that's code Bobcast23 for 25% off of your first order with DoorDash. Subject to change, terms apply. Oh, we are back. And our thanks to Perkins and Griffin for being with us today. We have a couple of baseball guys who've been around the game for an awful long period of time. What do you want to talk about? You want to talk about your Edmonton Oilers? In game one, you want to make police in game two tonight, both of them are down the game? Yeah, and they were both down the game in the first round too. So, you know, we got matters, huh? No. You know, Rich was talking about social media and people panicking and the way the fans can voice their opinions now. People forget seven game series. You know, it's a seven game series. It's one, I'll tell you what, Vegas was very good last night. I thought they played a great game. They were fast. They got better gold tending. They did a really good job against the Edmonton Oilers. Well, they are a good team. They are a good team. Yes, they are. You're right. They played well, but they are a good team. Well, in fact, they had more points than the Oilers this year. Exactly. So, I think people have forgotten that though. I think people, you know, everybody, you know, the juggernaut that the Oilers were in March and April. And then, you know, beating people thought that the Oilers would have a more difficult time with Los Angeles than they would with Vegas. And you know what, if Mark Stone could keep playing the way he played in Game 1, boy, was he good, huh? Yeah, sure he was. Then this is going to be a heck of a series. It really is. I don't think it's going to be a heck of a series. I think Vegas wins quite easily, but you do, huh? Well, look, I don't think Edmonton is as good as everybody thinks they are. And I do think there, I mean, I know that there is a huge Canadian bias in this country. Everybody wants a Canadian team. That does make sense. Well, of course, but, you know, everybody, everybody wants a Canadian team in the Stanley Cup final. Everybody wants a Canadian team to win. It hasn't been since 1993, the Montreal Canadiens, that Canadian team has won. And to be honest, the last time two Canadian teams in the Stanley Cup final, Bob. Sorry. When was the last time two Canadian teams in the Stanley Cup final? I cannot remember that. 1989. Well, there you go. You're all in Calgary. Well, I'm sure that Gary Betman, who will be our guest soon, would prefer not to have that situation again, too. He'd be much happier. I think there were there. You asking that question, I guarantee you, I know the answer. Oh, I know what the answer would be too, but it would be a lie. We need that whatever two best teams come out of each conference, we're just happy. Bull. You know that's bull and I don't have to say anymore. They would rather have two US teams and they'd rather have two big market US teams. And I understand that. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. But to sit there and say that you would rather not have a Canadian team in the playoffs, they're never going to say that. They think it, they know it, they believe it, but they're never going to say it. Well, I'm picking Toronto, I'm not just because I'm going to pick Toronto, Edmonton for the Stanley Cup final. Well, what do you mean now? I think you already did that. Oh, did I? Oh, yeah. You're such a Canadian. Well, why? Well, yeah, last I checked. I checked my passport and my birth certificate. But you know, I've lived here virtually all my life. I don't care if, you know, I have, I have a team that I root for, generally speaking, but well, okay. So the Canadian team gets into the Stanley Cup final. Do I care? I know. And, and, and that's the one thing we, I know we got to go, but that's the one thing that the ratings will prove if there's a Canadian team in the final, even if it's not the Maple Leafs, the Canadian ratings. That's all that matters to us. Well, it doesn't matter. It's not all that matters to the NHL. In fact, it doesn't matter at all to the NHL. Let's bring, we'll bring that up with the commissioner when he's on. All right. I'll see you then. So for John Shannon, this is Bob McCown. Until next time, goodbye, everybody. Bye. Bye.