Ray Ferraro on His New Job In Vancouver, mike Babcock and his expectations for the upcoming NHL Season.

This is the Boba Cowan Podcast brought to you by Bet Rivers down below the Bet Rivers online casino and sports book app. Today, Darren Mallard in for Bob this week, Darren's in Vegas to start a turning camp for the Golden Knights. Most NHL camps open one way the other today with media day, a little bit of news at a Tampa, a little bit of news at a Toronto where Brad Treleving has already seen that Marie is going to have surgery and Jake buzzards on LTIR and they've got to find a way to get some extra dollars before they're under the cap. And some TV news out of Vancouver where our pal Ray Ferrer was joining the regional broadcast on sports net and that's who we'll talk to today, Darren and nobody of yours, right? A long time buddy from the working class of sports net and I was a teenager when Ray Ferrer lit up the Western Hockey League with a brand of weekings and that's always nice to relive some of the names from that day. This is the first time all week that we brought Brandon up and I'm surprised that it took us to Wednesday. Ray Ferrer from Brandon, Manitoba's brand and weekings of the Western Hockey League and Brandon's Darren Millard joined me on the Macau and podcast. Hi, this is Bob Macau and for betrivers.com Hey, if you're looking for a sports book or casino app, you should check out the bet river sports and casino app today. Play all of your favorite casino games for real money anywhere and anytime. Let's get in the action with each sports game with hundreds of sports betting options and get ready to feel like a VIP because you'll earn both loyalty level points and bonus store points on every real money wager you make. You must be 19 plus available in Ontario only. Please play responsibly if you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, contact Connex Ontario at 1 8 6 6 5 3 1 2600 or speak to an advisor free of charge betrivers.com It's the Macau and podcast Darren Millard in for Bob this week and join by an old friend, an old friend of a large, you worked with Ray Ferrer. Oh, didn't you before, dear? Oh, yeah. When I worked together like four different times, it couldn't have been us. So that what year would that have been that would have been like 1950, 1950, what? Late 90s early 2000s, I think you were in Edmonton doing the oilers games at the same time and then we did that would have been 0 to that was when I started, yeah, all right. You guys old enough didn't you both, you played in Brandon Ray, you, you know, you were, you were Mr. Brandon there and what was there a connection there even in junior. We did not know each other when he when he played in Brandon. He was too much of a star. He was scoring like 125 goals a year and spraying the goalie in the face and doing all that stuff. Yeah. The media responsibility's drawn back as a junior player in the in the early 80s of the Easton Center. Yeah. So that was that was how shit was great in there. I was back there. That Luis go. There's still an aroma. There's still a lot. There should be. Yeah. Yeah. Was that but Boschman, Allison and Ferraro, was that what that was? No. No. No. No. No. That was Plontan Ferraro. Plontan Ferraro. I had my two, my two wingers were these two terrific junior players Dave Curry and Stacey Pratt. Yes. Okay. And they were terrific junior's camp plant who was a leaf draft pick, ran our power play and Hexie played every game and you know kind of fought every guy and he was a I want to say that year he had like like 13 or 14 assists and over 100 penalty minutes for sure. Well, I heard every one of them on both sides. I loved that. I love when I was a kid, I love watching your play, right? So it's good. Oh. So. And. So. Did you say when you were a kid, you're like, he did, I heard sure he did. I can only say these every once in a while. So. Back. True confession. Ray and I have been talking back and forth. We were supposed to play golf in the middle of July and Pentectin. It didn't work out because Ray got busy. And I've been tired of Ray about coming on the show the last two weeks, not knowing. And as you record this the day before they were going to announce Ray for our was going to do a limited amount of Vancouver connect games on television. So congratulations on another gig as if you need more money. Well, I don't know if we could all use it, I guess. I'm really happy to do this. So there's a little bit of a longer story to do this. So I started at sports net when I retired in October of 2002. And Craig Simpson was going leaving broadcast and going to go to coach with the Oilers at the time. He was one of the assistant coaches. So the opportunity opened up and I got recommended to go and audition. I didn't even really know what that was about. I had not done any games before I auditioned. I got the job. So for the next five years I worked in Edmonton, but I live in Vancouver. My contract was coming up and I said to sports and edit the time completely naive of really much in the broadcast world. And I said, Hey, look, I don't really want to keep flying to Edmonton to, you know, to do games and fly back home. When John Garrett retires, I want to be the Vancouver Canoxanalyst. And the brass at the time said, No, we can't guarantee you that. That was in 2008. I didn't realize cheese was going to work another 20 years like, I didn't know. I didn't know how cheese looked old in 1995. So I was like, so cheese is doing the games and that didn't work. I went to TSM and stayed there for 12 years and then went to ESPN. And I got a call asking if I'd be interested in this. And I mean, I've been watching Canoxan since 1970 and the opportunity, John, and there to do games at home is something I've never had before. So I'm, you know, I didn't want to travel anymore. That's why I left doing the TSM games in Toronto. Each game I did was three days, right? I had to get there, do the game and come home. Now it's three hours. And it, the difference is immeasurable. So I literally get in the car and drive 15 minutes. I'm at the rink. I do the game. Dan Murphy and John Shorthouse are really good buddies of mine. And then I turn around and come home. I mean, like it's, I'm really excited about it. And it's, it'll be fun to do. I mean, the first crack about management and, and mining your peas and cues on the broadcast. Oh, that, that was before the story, or, you know, when people were talking about it in the summer, Darren. And quite frankly, it really pisses me off, to be honest with you. So I would assume people, I'll give people the benefit of the doubt to be smart enough to know the difference between opinion radio and daily talking, doc talk shows, which is what I've done here for the better part of 20 years and doing your local team coverage. My job is not to dissect every management move or to dissect everything that's going on from a critical eye. My job is to broadcast the games. And, you know, what? Cheach was beloved here in Vancouver, right? I mean, he had an amazing run. And during the game, the last time he critiqued management was 19 never, because that's not what you do. That's right. That's not what the broadcast is about. The broadcast is about the game and the players in the community of the team. So I actually, it really bothered me that, and I know some, you know, people are going to say what they're going to say. But, you know, I've worked hard for 20 years to have a credibility of talking about what I see. And that's not going to change. I mean, I'm going to broadcast the games. But for example, Darren, you're in Vegas and you guys have an amazing broadcast team. And at, at no point, if, if things are going south, do you all ignore it? Right. But there's a way to talk about it in the context of working with the team as your partner. And if people can't understand that, there's nothing I can do about it. Hey, will you maintain the position between the benches? I know you love it for your ESPN. No, I'm not. I'm upstairs. And you're right, John. I, I love it down there. I think it's the best place to broadcast the game from in particular. You know, if I were, if I were doing the games with shorty as I will be. And if I were down stairs. I don't worry that shorty's not seeing anything that's going on because he's, he's so good at what he does. You know, and I had, I've had that. I've been lucky of that my whole literal broadcast career since I went downstairs. I've had. I've never had the worry that the play by play doesn't see it. If I, like, if I can't see something like their things you can't see, right? It's down in the corner. You can't see it. But they've just put a new clock in Vancouver and the things that, you know, size of the arena. I mean, like if you can't see it, just look up. It's right there. So I would prefer to be downstairs. It just doesn't, it's just not, it's not going to work at least this year anyway. When you were going down this path, were you looking at it as a bit of a connect fan like this is a bit of a dream come true. More, no, not really because I, it's weird. I've done this now, like I said, for 20 years. I've never really thought of a broadcast path about all what I'd like to do. I just like to do the games. So you never had a broadcast dream. I want to get to them. No, never. And you're one of the lucky ones. I am. Yeah. Honestly, I am because things appear and you go, oh, that's really cool. Like I've done the Olympics. I've done it. I've done it in Canada. And I, you know, I did the Vancouver games and, and I did it overseas. I, you know, I was in, in Korea and I was in Italy. I mean, it was amazing to do. I've done a Stanley Cup final. I'm going to do another one this year. But I never really aspired to do it. I just, this became my second career. My dream was to play. So that was my career dream. And I got to do it. I got to do it for 18 years. And then this honestly just happened. I didn't even really pursue it. And all of a sudden, I'm broadcasting at ESPN while I'm still playing. Right. And that was an incredible stroke of luck for me. And, and it, you know, it's worked out just amazing. Really. We should, we should also mention that you're not going to do every connox regional game. Dave Robinson, who is a great old friend of ours. A really good broadcaster, who was kind of left out in the lurch, except for our friend Paul Graham at TSN for the last couple of years, until he got to Seattle radio job. And then did an amazing job for the, for the crack and Thompson's going to fill in when you can't do it. And, well, other way or other way around. So win win. It is Dave's going to do, like I hope this year to do 20 games. I still have a year of contractual limitations with TSN. So I can do, I think it's going to work out to about 20. And this year in, in the 2324 season and hope to get it upwards to 30 next year. But, you know, that's for next year's schedule to, to figure out. Dave is, I'm so happy for Dave. He, he works really hard at, at what he does. He's a, North Vancouver kid born and raised. His mom still lives here. He gets to come home as kids are here. I, I mean, he was. Excited would be an under appreciation of the word excited for, for Dave to, to get this gig. I'm really happy for. Yeah. Okay. Let's get to the news of the day or the news of the week or I hope we forget it and don't call up the news of the year. With what went on in Columbus with Mike back, what's your take? I just, I just thought, honestly, I don't know what he was thinking. Like I, I don't know. I don't know how you could think that would be okay. And, and I hate saying in the world we live in today, but what I mean is in 2023 for all of the information that we've garnered over the last couple of years about employee, or relations about work spaces, about respect. To me, it just, I, I was really, really quite surprised. Now, it's, it's really easy for an older player to say, no, no. I'll tell you what I did this summer, you know, what do you got to go through my phone for? If you're an 18 to 20 to 22 year old kid, you, you're in a different spot. You just are now. And here's the thing. So like, if you want to get to know the players. Say you're my coach and you want to get to know me and you say, hey, what'd you do this summer? And I say, oh, I went to, you know, I love golf. I want to have it length. You ask me about the trip. I tell you about the trip. What do I got to show you 42 pictures from it for? Like it, it makes no sense other than to be of control and power. It really does. And, I mean, I, I don't know, I don't know this, but I would assume that the players in Columbus probably weren't charged up to play for Mike anyway. I mean, he's, he's not been an easy guy to play for. And this episode event, whatever you want to call it, gives them. I think it's a breath of fresh air. I really do for them. I, man, I just can't even imagine how. Well, that would have felt to be sitting with the coach. It says, let me see your phone. And he starts scrolling through it. Like I just, I, I don't get it. I don't get it on any level. Two, two things. One, the checks and balances that we have me, not the official checks and balances, like Paul, this net found out about it and went public, but that, but that worked, right? Like somehow it got out and people were held accountable. I'm, I'm encouraged by that. Number two, I want record on this in the church with saying, I don't think Mike was malicious in his efforts, but it really showed how out of touch he is. And do you think I'm wrong in that? No, like almost obtuse to the issue. Yeah. Yeah. Good point. Yeah. Like, and the thing is he's got a target audience to ask, ask your kids. Right. Your, your kids are in the workforce. What would you think if your boss said I want to look at your phone? Around the table, like if you, like around the dinner table, like just ask. But at, at a certain point here, Darren, I think like it's like I feel I'm more in touch with younger people than I was 10 years ago. And the reason is I've got a 16 and a 13 year old. And so I'm way more familiar with terms they use of what they think is okay and not okay. I mean, at a 16 and 13 year old, not a 22, 25 year old level. But when, when you, when you grow up on your 60 years old, as Mike is, and you're dealing with an 18 year old. Like it's not like when we were 18 years old. Like the world has changed so dramatically in the last 30 to 40 years. Like it would be hard to be in touch. And if you like the power. If you like the control. That's nice. Yeah. As Mike clearly does. That. Becomes a real issue. The thing that concerns me right now, Ray, is that I don't think we're going to hear from Mike Babcock ever again on this issue. But even in reading the press release, there is not, I don't think there's any admission of fault. In. I don't think he. I don't think there is right. I think that was right. I don't think he thinks it was wrong. No, and I think that that's that that's. And that's not an NHL thing. That's not a coaching thing to me. That's a personal thing that. That that's Mike Babcock's personality and all of this. Is that he was. He was checking a box trying to get to know the guys and he does it this way. What do you mean you don't like it? Well, that's what I always do. And that's that. I think that privacy. Personal privacy. Is so important to all of us. That I, I, I, I'm wondering, I'm wondering about it. The other part of the power imbalance bugs me more than the personal privacy as weird as that sounds. What do you mean by that? Well, you don't, you don't have a choice. I mean, if you're a 20 year old kid, you don't have a choice. No. But John, you, you may have stumbled on the best way of putting this whole situation. You, just what you said is Mike is a steamroller. He just moves straight ahead. Always. And he's been that way. For, for as long as I, I've known him. I don't know him well, but I've long as I've known him. And you mentioned it that. Yeah, I want to, I want to get to know you want to have lunch. I want to look at your pictures. I want to know you don't like it. Let's find we're going to move ahead. That. That's it. The nutshell. And I don't take the box. I don't think he, I don't think it's thought of outside of that lane. And I, and I really don't think it's malicious. It's just. Hard of the process. And it's that that's an awful way to put it. But that's, that's to me. The other aspect of this is. And you're a former member of the players association. Does it change the role of what the PA does. In 2023 that they can. I mean, we've never seen. In my time. And I could be wrong. I've never seen the players association advocate. For a team of players against a coach. In the national hockey league. In my time. I, I could be wrong, but I don't think I've ever seen it before. I don't recall it. I, I really, I really don't recall it. I, I do think the. I don't think it's. I don't think it's. I don't know. At this time has gone on. Part of the role of the players association. It becomes even more what it should have been. Prior and that's advocacy for the players. And so. Yes, it's different. And yes, it's changed. And. If there are. If there are. If there are spots where players are uncomfortable. Or if there are spots where they think they'll be taken. Seriously. As opposed to. It just get washed into the wind. You think. I think it's just. I think we've seen grievances, but usually those are individual. Sure. As opposed to. Representing a group of players. Yeah. I don't. The. John, I can't think of the. I can't really think of one. players or teams be really sour with a coach and how they handle it. I wonder if we ever see the NHLPA look into it further. Have we opened up any type of box? And I'm not saying it's a bad thing either. Well, I don't know, Darren. I mean, like if I think, well, not I think I know communication between the players and the coaching staffs and management is far different, certainly than when I played. But we would bitch and complain about the coach to each other. And if we went anywhere, if we even thought to go anywhere else with it, it was in a cul-de-sac. Right? It was just like, you're going to come straight back. It wasn't going anywhere. And so now I, if, if, for example, a coach was scheduling or demanding things practice wise, work out wise, maybe the way he's dealing with meetings and the tone of the meetings. If that was a problem, I think the players probably feel much more comfortable going to the coach. Now, your leadership group would be far more comfortable doing that as a first step. I think there's, not I think, I don't have any doubt that that, that's certainly the case as opposed to the way it used to be. And it is a good thing. Did every coach be taking inventory of how they handle things in the wake of this or was it a one off? Oh, I don't, I don't think they should be taking a stock of what they do. They should have already been doing it. Yes. You know, like I, that's, that's what I think when, when I see something from five or seven or ten or twelve years ago, I, I look at it a little bit differently than when I see something that happened last Thursday. You know, like I'm like, I, I can see, I, it's not too excuse, but I can see behaviors and temperaments and way to look at things were all different at the time number of years ago. And you have to look at it in that time's model. When something happens today, you look at it in today's model. It doesn't matter saying, oh, this could have been fine ten years ago. It's not. It was today. Like the, the plan, such as it was, was made today and enforced in today's world. Not we're looking at something from five years ago. Right. Right. Like Mitch Marner got asked about it today at the opening, of course, of training camp. And they asked him for a comment and he said, look, what's happened happened. That was back in the day. In other words, we've already dealt with that. It's back there. There's no point in bringing today into yesterday. And for the players, I'm sure they want to get through this media day. They want to start camp Pascal Vincent wants to get coaching and coaches team and. Just be the Columbus Blue Jackets that's, that's what they're hoping for. You played for a lot of coaches. I know you're, I assume, as most former Islanders are, are huge Al Arbor fans. Is that fair? Don't love Al Arbor. I was less than privileged to play for him. But what did a coach could Al Arbor could Al Arbor work in 2023? Yes. Yeah, absolutely could because Al had a directness. And honesty and an openness to him that really was almost out of place when I played for him. Like he was so different. He would call you in. There would be a meeting, John, that meeting there and would be three minutes. And you left the meeting, you knew exactly where you stood. And you would talk to somebody else a meeting they had. And it was a different meeting, but it was the same thing. Like there was no, there were no head games, mind games that were, I mean, there was always a little bit with coaches, right? You always wanted to. Make sure guys were sharp, but there was no mind game. You never guessed you never wondered what Al thought of you. Good or bad? That's like, Al was an incredible, incredible person. And that helped him become an incredible coach. I was thinking, and maybe wrong in this, but like Mike Keenan loved, loved mind games. And he loved putting it on edge, like that wouldn't work today. No, I don't think so. But you have to wonder for any of those guys that coached in that, that same bubble we'll call it, would they have been different today? Would they have changed? Would they have changed with the time? Because we're looking at Mike Keenan from 1995. Like to think you've grown and changed in 30 years, right? So it's like saying, you know, when I hear a fan or broadcaster say, well, you know, the players today, the way they train, and well, we, we would have trained differently. If we knew any different, like we trained the way that we trained because that was, to us was the cutting edge of training in 1990. It's not, I look at the way the guys trained today. It's like it's apples and oranges. And I think it's the same in coaching behaviors and the way that you communicate with your players. There's so much more video that you can work with players. So I think if, if you're coaching today, your message can be supported with video immediately. And players have grown up in a video world. They're used to looking at themselves. They look at that iPad or that tablet. You talk to them about a play. It doesn't really need in most cases to go any further than that because they've got the answer right in front of them. But nothing sure, I mean, let's face it, from the time that you played and there and started a business in this business and me too, the, the world has exponentially changed, exponentially changed. When my time it was arithmetically, now it's exponentially, it is just, and technology alone has changed that. And it's changed how we approach each other too in so many ways. We're going to actually try to talk a little bit of hockey. What to expect in the NHL season with Ray Ferraro, Darren Mallard's in Ferbob. This is the Macauin podcast. Welcome back, Ray Ferraro, Darren Mallard's on Shannon as NHL training camps open up this week. Ray is there anything that, I mean, other than Vancouver because you're too close to what being living there and you read about it too much and you hear about it too much and we're always worried about who the backup goals ender and the fourth center are in Vancouver. Yeah, there's a lot of discussion always, always is, man, always, is there anything around the league that turns your crank right now that says, hey, that's a great story. Is it Eric Carlson at Pittsburgh? What jumps out of you? That's, that's a cool place to start because, you know, you often hear about teams trying to build around their core in a specific age group. You know, like it, it doesn't do you much good to add a couple of 33 year olds to a team whose core is 20. Like you've already passed the best of the Thursday. Is that a message for Kyle Davidson or what? No, I mean, they're trying to, they're, they've got, I was thinking the same thing. No, but you know what? I'd love to be Cory Perry or Nick Salino. Man, you, how old's Cory Perry and somebody says we want you to be a leader and we're going to give you a $4 million box and he's a rink rat. He loves the game. So he's like, yeah, I can do this with love to have done that. No, it's more of what Pittsburgh's doing. Like what good does it do Pittsburgh to add players that are going to grow into their game? The core of their team is in their mid 30s. Like while Sid and Malkin and Latang are still legit stars, because time will get everybody. Why not make the best push to be the best team you can be now? And so I, I thought Carlson made a hell of a lot of sense. I think Latang is going to be better by doing less. He's going to have to do less. I think that's a big win for them. They're going to be way faster than they were. That was a frustration for Mike Sullivan for sure last year. And as always, with anyone else we talk about around the league, any team is, you know, how good is their goaling? What can Tristan Jari be in goal? And I think, you know, I mean, Pittsburgh just had to beat Chicago and Columbus. It's not to get into the playoffs last year. And they stubbed their toe in a big way. I think Pittsburgh is, I think Pittsburgh's 100 point team this year. I do. And I think they're going to be pretty good. I got to say I'm pretty excited. I've got the opening game of the season. You know, so we've got Baudard, Connor Baudard's first game in Pittsburgh. And hopefully Mike Sullivan and Luke Richardson will put them out there for the first face off because it would be great theater. That way, I tell you what, the penguins becoming a contender again in that metaphor division changes the whole complexion of that division. When you think about it, because there's been a, there's been a shift, right? Caroline is there. We don't know what going on with Carolina really, because I don't think they've ever addressed their, you know, who's their giant goal scorer. But the Devils and the Rangers, they're, they're the, they're supposed to be the best two teams in the division of Pittsburgh can re-emerge. That changes everything, doesn't it? Well, it does, but I'll debate you on that. I think Carolina is, I think Carolina is awesome. And they're, they're to me, I'm a huge baseball fan. They're like the Atlanta Braves in the 1990s. They won the division every year, like for the 14, 14 times. And one little series. Yes, because they didn't have another gear. But for the long 162 game season, you could not get through Maddox, Glavin, Smolts, Avery. You couldn't get through their pitching staff. When it came to the playoffs, something that extra gear was missing. That's what I see with Caroline. You're not going to score against them. You're not going to keep up to them. And they still don't have a top end goal scorer, like a, a legit, easy score. Yeah, but I still think they're, I think Caroline is at the top of the division again. I think that Devils are going to be a gear better. Now, are they, is their goal tending going to be enough? Like is Akira Schmidt, one of those kids that comes in and is awesome in the playoffs. And then the next year, the full year, he takes a half a step back. It's Vanne check, find his game, because he got overwhelmed in the playoffs. Like, I mean, that's a, that's a legit question in Jersey. They're going to work in at least one, maybe two younger D. The Rangers are interesting to me because, of course, they went right to the big names, all of them last year. And it didn't work. And that was either going to work, or as I said at the time, they failed spectacularly, and which is exactly what happened. But Peter Lavia, let's teams generally, generally compete in particular rate when he gets there. And the Rangers are a problem. I mean, the Islanders are going to be a pain in the ass too. They all, I don't think they can't win, but they're always a pain, right? Like the Washington should be somewhat better, right? Well, I don't know how much, but I would think adding John Carlson to their lineup changes them. You know, I mean, his injury last year was horrific and took them right out of, right out of any contention. Tom Wilson missed much of the air with, you know, coming back from ACL surgery. Health to an older team is always a question, but I, that's a, that's not an easy division. And, and one of the things to remember too in the east this year is Boston's going to leave 35 points on the table that were there last year. And somebody's going to get those points. And that might, that in itself might change the dynamic of where, where teams could finish. I don't know who makes it out of the Atlantic, Toronto. I don't think anybody cares about the regular season when it comes to that. But I've got Ottawa trying to figure out what they're going to do and Detroit, what they're going to do. Hold on. I don't know. And you've missed, you missed the one. I think Buffalo is better than both Ottawa and Detroit. My brother was not the coach. Yeah, it bothers me to agree with you, John. And you're right on both of those points. My brother lies the coach and I, I do think Buffalo is, they were right there last year. But again, you're, you're goalie means so much to you. And they chose not to pick up a veteran somewhere, you know, with Craig Anderson, finally retiring. And, and he just had a, he was amazing for them in the role that he played. But you go to Devon Levi and, and, and, Ukepaka, Luke and, and, like, an era calmly, you're like, well, what do you have? Because they're all relatively inexperienced. If I were to rate those teams, I'd go Buffalo, Ottawa, Detroit. Detroit's still just a smidge away for me. But in very short order, that Eastern conference is going to get turned on its ear. Because when these teams hit, they're young and they're going to be deep and they're going to be good. No, and, and quietly, I think, you know, I think the sabers are going to be a really good team this year. I just think it, and, and, and it's funny. I think that everybody talks about veteran leadership every once in a while. How important is veteran leadership with that young group of guys, all those first round picks? Eric Johnson. If Eric Johnson can say healthy and Buffalo, he will be, he will be, I think a good voice back on the blue line. And even, even if it's a situation where he doesn't play every game, Eric Johnson can be a voice of sanity for some of those young guys, don't you think? He can, and he's not going to have to play more than 14 or 15 minutes a game. Right. And so that, that is manageable. You've got, like, Rosmastaline is, he's a star. Like he's, it's really funny when you go back a few years and people say, and I, because there was enough of it, I think he's going to be a flop as a number one pick. And you're like, man, that guy's 20. How could he be a, like, as defense, 20, yeah, he's 20 and he's, yes, he's overwhelmed, man, you know, like it was way too early. I think Dalyne's a star, they're big on the blue line. Like Samuelson, Shell Samuelson's boy is a monster hard to play against. Owen Power will be, you know, a step better. They got Connor Clifton. I, yeah, Johnson as well. I, I think they're pretty good. Like I, I think, and they play, they play a style that's uncomfortable for a lot of teams. Like they'll play a five, four, whether you want to or not, and you're, you're, you're not going to beat Buffalo 2-1 very often, you know, maybe that, they maybe, they're, and that maybe drags your team, not Vegas, but drags a team out of the way they really want to play because, man, we got to get, we got to get four because who's probably not doing it either. Somebody told me that, that Buffalo won't be able to win in the playoffs that way. Like, who cares? Who's thinking about winning the Stanley Cup right now? Get to the playoffs. Be exciting. Establish an organization and some good to will around, and good feelings and vibe around the organization and, and make some progress. I, I like the way they play. I think it's great for our game. It is. And why worry about the fifth step when you're out at the first step? Right. Get there. And then what's going to end up happening is they'll get there. And then they'll identify which players can adjust to that style and that intensity. And they'll evaluate that. And then players will come in and players will go, but you've now built a team that's a playoff quality team. And I think for almost every team, almost every team, that's kind of the way it goes rarely does a team get to the playoffs and smash it out of the park right away. There's another step in there. There was a team that has been to three Stanley Cup finals of late and the captain this morning announced that he's disappointed that they didn't have an extension ready for him in the last year of his contract. What do you make of what Stephen Stamco said? Well, there's a there's a player in a point in his career that is competent, that knows where he stands and is not shy to make that known. I'm surprised he's not signed into an extent or at least because I know I'm not surprised he's not signed. I think John, I'm surprised he said they haven't had any talks, right? And so that's the part that would surprise me is that they hadn't said, hey, we've got a bunch of stuff we're working on here and let's get through camp here and then it shouldn't be a long conversation, really. If you're intending to sign them, which I would assume they are, the term is going to be one phone call and you're going to figure that out because now how old would she's how old is he now because it's it goes fast. I'm trying to think was he in the 90 draft? But it's his first go around of being in that weird window of not being locked in. We need you. We have to have you and every player was to a right point. My point was it's not like you're talking a seven year deal. No. You know, so yeah, Steven's damn cost is is 33 right. So he'd be he was the first round in 208 in 08. Yeah, I meant was he a 90 birds. Yeah. So yeah, talking like a hockey parent. Oh, he's a 94. Yeah. 97. That's, yeah, that's all it would know. That is so true. So if he so he's 34 when he finishes, are you looking at three years 35 36 37 or maybe it's four years, like my point is that's not really a difficult conversation. I don't think that should be one call. The next call should be the parameters of the money and you should be able to come together. And I I think I'm surprised that conversation hasn't at least started. I've just been in reading and then finally hearing the interview today that he gave in the scrum media day. I could just imagine Jeffrey Vinnick picking up the phone and talking to Julian Breezeblast saying, what are we doing here? Like what's going on? This to me. This is where the owner said, am I, did I miss something here? What? Yeah, I got to fix this. This doesn't this doesn't make a lot of sense like it's sometimes you can see even with an older player, like you could see last summer that the black hawks weren't going to talk to Jonathan Taves about an extension. Like you could see that coming given the way Jonathan's previous year or two had been. It didn't wouldn't have guessed this was stamp goes. What do you mean? What do you think? I think he's an awesome player. That's what I, they're in a tough spot because I don't advise anybody to take a hometown discount because if you take a hometown discount and they spend the money on players that can't help you and then two years later they trade you, well then you've taken a hometown discount to go somewhere else. He's got swagger, he's got guts, he's got skill. I don't think the criticisms of him early in his career are valid anymore. I think he's grown through those. I think he's a, I think he's a fantastic player, I really was he worked 10 million dollars. I think he's as good as Sebastian Aho. Yeah, I think he is and the jump from what he's making now to 10. Isn't that. Is it three million bucks? Yeah, Sebastian Aho makes 9.5 million I think. So the answer is yes, I think he is, I mean like you might not, it's all, for me it's all too much but you have to look at it again in the context of it's 2023, it's not 93. I got to tell you every time somebody signs a contract you remember Eric Brewer? Yes, one of the one of the funniest, most sarcastic guys around every time somebody who gets 11 goals signs a contract for 4 million, he sends me a text and says, jeez razor, could you imagine if you were playing today? He does it all the time, cracks me up, every, I see his name pop up and I just start to laugh because I know that's what it's about. Of course, the Leafs still, the reason they're in a tough spot, they still got to get through the Tavares contract, you still got to wait for the cap to grow and it's not going to grow 10 million, going to grow incrementally and you know, I'm not smart enough to know exactly how much it's going to go up but like say you decide to trade Neilander, unless you're getting an equivalent defenseman back, like of stature and which you're not in most cases, then you're going to spend the next 10 years looking for William Neilander. Yeah, cap space is so valuable, but if you've already got a top talent, you're better to keep that top talent as much as cap space is incredible. Right, and the other thing to remember, of course, is yes, the cap's going up, but you know, some of your cap space or half of your cap space just got chewed up by Matthews and his new extension and you know, in a lot of cases, cap space is great, but really all it does is allow you to keep your team together, it doesn't give you a lot of growth right now. Yeah, but our pal Kenny Holland knows that too well, right? Yeah, great, you got more cap space, oh well, that's nice, you're still going to sign the guys' half. Knock, knock, knock, oh by the way, Leon's up in two years. Oh boy. Do you guys think Neilander signs for longer than Matthews, if he does re-sign, because that's the other thing, there's no guarantee Matthews is stays beyond the four years. So you got to have something, it's almost back pocket there too. Okay, so Matthews has four years, which means he's got five, right? Five, right. Five years left. So Neilander signs for four or six. Yeah, right. That's right. Like that's, you're not going to let these guys come up together. And however, however that, it would seem likely to me, given his, just the way he is, like there's just such a confidence to him, I, you know, I think we all kind of know it's like at this swagger, he would want less than more, unless the number just blows him out of the water, which I don't see how it could. I think he would want, he would be comfortable, not want. He would be comfortable, unless, like last year, final player, before we let you go, what do you think the impact of Pierre-Luke Dubois will be on the Kings and on the division? I think Dubois is a terrific player. When he's applied to the game, like he applies himself to the game, he would be the type of player I, I myself would have hated to play against. Because he's big, really strong, heavy, drives the net. He always uses, when he's at the top of his game, he uses his size to a real advantage. And there's some guys that are big, that are just big, and they don't use that size. He's a terrific player. And he really, he really fits the LA, like he looks like an LA king to me. And so if you're rolling out Dubois, Copatars, Denneau, center-ice position, and you got that little buzz on LaZotte, zipping around in the four hole, like that's a good team. That's a good team. But probably the biggest problem they have is the team in Vegas, which, my God, they look great. I mean, yes, it's one thing to say they won, but man, they looked like they were just oiled in. Like man, that team was, it's so big, it's so deep, it's so strong. And I never think teams can repeat, but I'm having a tough time thinking of who's better. Right. I'm surprised, no, there's not as much talk about Vegas repeating with everybody coming back. Well, do you think, do you think Jack Eichel's going to get 66 points next year? Right. Yeah. Not a chance. They, they didn't even have anybody that you went, oh my God, what a year. Yeah, 30 goal score. That's it. They've got, they've got one small player on that team, and he won the cons like. Everybody else is a giant. Well, that's going to be a hard team to play. The defense core there, you know, as much as Jack Eichel, I know Eichel's great, I'm not questioning that. But that defense drives everything. And I mean, if you're building a team, aren't you sitting in your scouting meetings and putting up the six defense room for the Vegas goal tonight, send boys, this is what we want. Yeah. And so good luck going and get it. Right. Like, this is why this is a good point, because I, I, I hear a lot about the NHL being a copycat league. And I just think that's nonsense. Like, okay, so I want to copy Vegas. Great. I could go get six guys to play on the blue line. The editors tall as Vegas's guys, but they're not those players, right? Like it's impossible to replicate somebody else. You can look at their template and go, I'd like my defense to be a little bigger or I'd like to be a little, a little heftier up the middle of the ice. Like, you could look at that, but you still got to go get it. And once you get it, it has to be the right internal engine for it all to work. It's, it's, I think you look at your team, you look at your strengths and you go, how can I make this team the best team we can be because I can't be Vegas and the salaries have to work, right? Well, they found a way to make that work. Well, Colorado won two years ago and McKinnon was making six million bucks. Good luck having that happen again. Well, and it's the only way you have the only way that you have the cap, a copycat league when you want that blue line is you go and get one of the guys in free agency, which is what the St. Louis Blues lost. The Vegas School of Nights won an out on Spatrangelo and that became, he became the cornerstone, right? That's just, that's just fact because where you find in the next D like that, right? It's up for trade that someone says, Oh, yeah, I'd like to change my look of my D. I'll trade my number one D. That's not happening. Well, we know the Pacific's going to be tougher. We've already mentioned that the Metro might be tougher if the penguins turn it around. The Atlantic division, you know, there's going to be seven teams that think they actually can get into the playoffs. And we haven't even touched on the central where Connor Bedard's going to be the difference maker for the Black Hawk's not a playoff team, but he's going to turn a lot of heads. It's going to be an unbelievable season, right? And you're a big part of it, both on the regional level now in Vancouver. And then on your ESPN package, thanks for this. You bet. I hope you guys are well and hope Bob's doing great. Do I get to see you more in Vegas with Vancouver? Are you going to do travel down here a little bit? I have my games to, no, I'm not in Vegas until Christmas. I'd like to get that, you know, I'll tell you what I want to get to Vegas. Is it right for that F1 race? Oh, yeah. That is going to be wild. It's awesome. We're going to have it there and then why? Darren's renting out his room for 1,400 in a night. You're more than welcome. I'm a dry just a five guy and come on over. I'm not leaving the town during that. Could you imagine what that's going to look like going down the strip? It's going to be spectacular. Unreal. Come on. Hang out with me. I can see the eyeballs on the sphere, turning as the curve goes. Yes, yes. We'll do you two. The sphere will do the formula one and you can stick around for the Super Bowl. And then the mix will have a Stanley Cup contender. She's just think if Vegas could only get things happening there. Yeah, you know, it's just such a dull play. No, dull. 2016, they had nothing amazing, isn't it? The best part about this is John say goodbye. And I've managed to continue this on. I'm going to repeat myself up until yesterday. There was only three people that ever said goodbye in this podcast. Bob MacCowen, me, Mike Babcock did when we had him on because he said, okay, guys got to go. And now I'm trying to do it. Darren tried to do it yesterday. So I love talking array. And it's expansive. And so this is a good thing. It's a good thing. Well, let the games begin. Thank you, Ray. Be well, my friend. Be well, guys. See you. That's Ray Ferraro. He's Darren Lloyd. I'm John Shannon. And thankfully, we're almost finished. This is the account podcast. Thanks to Ray Ferraro. This is actually one we know we're not on serious XM anymore. And when we were on serious XM, Darren, we were limited to 52 minutes. And so and it was there was a good. No, there's a good thing. And a bad thing about it is that if you had a, you could always get to 52 minutes in there, but there were times you wanted to do a little bit more. And and now we're not as tied to time as we, we once were. So when you were telling me you would have been yelling at me for what I just did with Ray. Listen, I, I, I don't yell. You would have been using the chat button. You stopped talking. I wanted to talk about Ray because he played in the Cooper all era in the West or ocular. If he, if he ever looks back and thinks I scored a hundred goals in the season, but every picture I'm wearing Cooperals. Didn't he wear Cooperals or the CCM version of that when he was in Hartford too. Oh, he might have that. Actually, yeah, you're right. That's what I always think of Gretzky scoring 50 in 39. And the game that he did it was against the flyers who were wearing the CCM. Long pants and Bill Barber going sliding by. It's the one where we all, oh, Cooperals, CCM. That's a, that is a Bill Barber always regrets falling down on the empty net goal. Because that's all everybody talks about in his career house. He was the last man back as Wayne put the puck into the empty net for 50 in 39. Well, and you slide on those things, even if it was old ice or chewed up ice, you still go. I'm sorry I have distracted you. I never really considered that because I've never worn them. So, you know, I didn't believe I didn't believe in snow pants as a kid. I didn't believe in Cooper all the, you don't believe in snow pants? No, blue jeans come on. Oh, snow pants to you. Well, I grew up. We didn't have very much snow. So you were in a desert. Yeah, the northern extension of the Sonora desert, their little geography lesson here. Soyuz? No, all over the big town. Sorry, big here of the two towns. Sorry, sorry about the rivalry between all over the Suez, huge, huge rivalry. So we'll save that for another day. How's that? OK, I'll talk about Christina Lake, too. Well, that's, that's different. That's totally different. Oh, you know, come on. That's at the top of an area. There we go. Anyway, thanks for this. Thanks, buddy. Jim Nill, Jim Nill, who was supposed to be on today is now on tomorrow. The general manager of the Dallas stars as they prepare for their season. And it's going to be an interesting start of the season. The Central Vision, we didn't talk a much about today, but we will talk fully about it tomorrow with young Mr. Nill, who I used to watch as a kid, too. This is the McComb podcast, Mallard Shannon. Talk to you tomorrow.