This is the Boba Cowan podcast that is brought to you by Bet Rivers. Download the
Bet Rivers online to see no in sports book app today. What do you watch last like Shannon?
I'll keep basketball baseball. Well, yeah, a little bit of everything. I must admit it.
I think at 11 to 1, I turned the baseball. I stopped being interested in the baseball
game because I think that's when the that's when the infielders came into pitch. No, I
figured that we were going to see Dick Vital pitch for the for the Rays at some point because
he's sitting in the front row. It was interesting. You know, I, you know, the one thing I thought
of at that point was this is, you know, this is probably the right thing to do. But would
the Blue Jays do this? Oh, yeah. It's a blue jesus.
Everybody won the game. Where they bring somebody from the field in the throw. And I don't think
they would have. Oh, I think everybody does. Don't you? No, I don't don't. I mean, you're
going to sacrifice one of your guys out of your bullpen. When's the one's the last time
the Blue Jays had a a an everyday fielder pitch for them? I don't know. But somebody
will tell us. Well, I'm just not sure that they think of it that way. I think somebody
out of the bullpen would have been pitching. Now, now I don't think that's right. I think
what Tampa did was probably the right thing to do. I don't think you're going to they
had no no chance of coming back down 11 1. No winning 20 to 1 does not solve the problems
that this team has though. The Blue Jays. Yeah, I agree with you. Well, we'll talk about
well, let's talk about the Blue Jays in depth Rob Longley will join us and we'll we'll do
that after these messages. Hi, this is Bob McCowan for bet rivers.com. Hey, if you're
looking for a sports book or casino app, you should check out the bet River sports and
casino app today. Play all of your favorite casino games for real money anywhere and
anytime. Plus get any action with each sports game with hundreds of sports betting options
and get ready to feel like a VIP because you'll earn both loyalty level points and bonus store
points on every real money wager you make. You must be 19 plus available in Ontario only.
Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone
close to you, contact Connex Ontario at 1 866 531 2600 or speak to an advisor free of charge
bet rivers.com. Bear back to the channel and channel with you. Rob Longley joins us who
covers the Toronto Blue Jays. Quite a day to be talking about this team after a 20 to
one victory, which I guess marks the end of this drought. What I said to John to be out
of the day, we were talking a bit about it. And I said, you know, this kind of thing,
almost every team in baseball goes through one of these runs over the sometime over the
course of the year where nothing seems to work. Nothing seems to go well and you lose
a bunch of games in a row. The problem here seems to be that we're still fairly early
in the season. And the impact of what has happened to the Blue Jays over the past, what
10 15 days is pretty dramatic. Do you see a cause? Do you see a specific reason why this
team has gone through this last 10 12 game drought? First of all, Bob, I couldn't agree
with you more. I mean, there is a tendency to dismiss a bad stretch like this as being
just part of the baseball season and it's still only May and all that kind of stuff.
But when you find yourself nine and a half games out of the division lead because of
it and a division that's the toughest division in baseball and a division where you don't
get to play the other teams as much as you used to in the past because of the need of
schedule, it's definitely concerning. As for a cause, I mean, you know, the people around
the Blue Jays tend to want to dismiss it as being just baseball, right? A lot of hard
hit balls or getting hits or just not scoring with runners in scoring position. And I suppose
to a small extent, that's true. But I mean, we heard so much about this team in spring
training that they were going to be the team that did the little things right, that they
were going to move runners around the bases. They were going to have to rely on home runs
like they did in the last couple of seasons. And all the things we heard them that they
were going to do in spring training are the things that they haven't been doing. They've
been running into outs on the base paths. They have not been able to score with runners
in scoring position last night being the exception. And they're making mental mistakes that this
team was we were told was not going to make. Is it a temporary thing? We're going to find
out, I guess, because the schedule doesn't get a whole lot easier for them in the short
term anyways.
Yeah, my perception would be this not not getting hits key hits when you have runners
in scoring position has been very dramatic and really quite obvious. And the problem becomes
I don't know what you do about it. I don't know how do you teach a guy? How do you tell
a guy to get a hit with, you know, with two on and two out? Because it's happened over
and over and over again. That's a little league. Well, you can say whatever you want
to say. But I mean, what do you want? Actually, can you do about a Rob?
I mean, I guess the only thing you really can do is tell each and every hitter not to
try to be the hero, not to try to force things, try to make sure you slap a single like Boba
Shet tends to do or you have a four hit night like Boba George Springer did on on Tuesday
by not trying to do too much because I mean, I guess that is human nature when you're in
a funk like that and you're a team that is better than what you've been showing that
everybody tries to force the issue a little bit and this team is not designed to do it
that way. It's not a slugging team. It's a team that's meant to grind out runs. And
so you kind of have to hope that they exhale and take a deep breath and maybe get back
to just sticking with what works for them. Maybe a game like last night helps. I mean,
I know it was 20 to one. Ten of those runs came off of position players. But the fact
is that they scored 10 in the first six innings and maybe that was what they needed to break
out like that to sort of allow them to reset a bit mentally.
But what's amplified the whole concern, I think, Rob, is that if you look at this division,
they can't seem to win games in the division more than anything else. I mean, the sweep
in Boston, the Yankees come in here, Tampa comes in here, Baltimore comes in here. That's
the bigger. That's almost as big a concern as the overall swoon, isn't it?
I agree. I mean, we hear so much about this because of the partially balanced schedule
that it was actually going to be easier for the J's to rack up wins. And that may be true
in terms of the bottom number at the end of the season. But it actually makes it difficult
to catch the teams in front of you when you don't do well against them. What are they
six and 13 against the ALE now or something like that? And we saw it last week when the
Yankees came into town and they essentially kicked the J's around like they were their
little brothers. They heard enough of people saying that the J's see the Yankees as their
prime rivals. And the Yankees are like, no, no, you guys don't play at Fenway Park. Our
rivals are in Boston. You guys aren't our rivals. You're our little brother. We're
going to kick into the curb. Baltimore Orioles, all they hear is talk about, yeah, your start
is in for real. Well, they came in and showed the J's who they were as well and swept them.
So they have to have some success against the teams in your division. I think there's more
of an importance on it this season than in the past. Somewhat ironically, they've got
a winning record against the Tampa Bay Rays right now. The only team in baseball that
does and with two games running in this series, I think, you know, at worst, they need to
get a split from it so that they can stay within single digits behind the division leader
before this is over.
One of the things that you look after, look at, inevitably look at in the midst of something
like this is change. Is there anything you can see that the Blue Jays might do in order
to make changes within the roster? You know, is the manager safe? We know that there's
another manager in the dugout that has more experience than he does and it seems to be
the guy in waiting. I mean, I don't believe in that kind of thing, but nonetheless, it
exists. And when you're in the midst of a losing streak, that's when this comes up.
That's when you start talking about should we make a managerial change? Do you think
there's any changes coming?
No, I don't think so, Bob. I mean, Don Mattingly very much exists and he's there and you know,
he would be there as a potential replacement if it becomes necessary. But to me, there
are no signs that that Schneider's anywhere close to losing the room. He's become this
good communicator, this good players manager.
I agree.
Strong relationships with a lot of them. You know, things continue to go south. Obviously,
the mistake that he made by going to the mound for the second time in an inning last week
and is a critical mistake that a manager, a big league manager, should not be making.
And I suppose if that sort of behavior became a habit forming, then there would be some
concern. But there's no indication in my mind that he's lost the room and probably the
opposite. You know, he was very reassuring to hold to this team during this poor stretch.
I actually saw him doing some very proactive stuff that I haven't seen from a J's management
manager since I've been covering the beat. And that was some serious one on one conversations
in a clubhouse with guys who have been struggling and not reading them to the riot act kind of
conversations, but kind of building them back up and saying, listen, we need you to be a
factor on this team and we need you to just chill a little bit, take a breath and get back
to being who you are. So nowhere close to losing the room. So I would have to think there's
nowhere near any turn of him losing his job. Now, this team continues to struggle and becomes
a less than 500 team by mid season. We start to look at broader changes like this management
start to come into the issue because Rogers is spending a lot of money both in payroll
and in the $300 million renovations. And they're going to be asking for a lot of money going
into the 2024 season with the renovations in the lower bowl in that stadium. And, you
know, are people going to want to support a team that's a last place team or a non contender.
So early days for that yet, but if the struggles could continue, I think that the bigger picture
may be the most interesting one.
Of course, that is sorry, John. That is interesting because they have sold out or virtually sold
out that outfield in the early part of the season. But you have to think a lot of that
is because this was perceived as a good team, a championship quality team and it's a place
to go. If they don't, if they're no longer that, if they're also around, you know, revenue
will go down. Well, I think so because the indications I've been given were that, you
know, season ticket sales weren't through the roof. This is sort of like a transition season
in terms of ticket sales for this vlog club because it's really the first full season
that they've had since 2019 since with things being somewhat normal, right? I think there
was a lot of curiosity for people to come out and see the team early on. And the people
are really enjoying those new spaces. They actually did a reasonable job on it. But a
good chunk of that has been walk up crowd.
And I'm sure people have bought tickets for the next month or so. But if the performance
remains flat, I mean, the hey day of the season when you're supposed to be selling out almost
every night or in theory, that could be kind of soft for them if they don't pick up the
pace in the standings a little bit.
Well, and the practical side of that is that those aren't expensive seats. Those are the
cheap seats.
No.
And so your season ticket base, you want to make sure that, you know, between the bases,
right? You're not not necessarily in the outfield. And the 20 or $25 general admission to that
outfield to buy a $16 hot dog and a beer is a little different than sitting in a nice
seat down the first baseline at $85 or $90 for the ticket. So they've certainly got to
be concerned.
I've got to ask you the Sunday mound visit was enough made in of it or was too much made
of it when you consider what happened with it. I know it's a new rule, but you know,
if this was an experienced manager or a manager that lots of people didn't like, would we
have been a lot more critical of it?
Yeah, I found myself thinking about that a fair bit, John, because I guarantee you if
it happened to the previous manager, the fire in Montoya, shouts would have been heard throughout
the city, right? Probably throughout the country because people just wanted to jump
on him for every little thing that he did. I think it was handled fairly well by the
public and by the media. Shider did take a fair bit of criticism for it. And because
it really is an unacceptable thing. It was two batters before the Pete Walker was out.
And if you look closely, you could tell that Alec Manoa wasn't too pleased about it.
I mean, finally, it's having a decent outing and it ends because his manager made a mistake.
It's unacceptable for my big league manager. And I think he dismissed it as a one-off for
now. But yeah, if it was Charlie Montoya, the reaction would have been a lot more harsh.
Bob talked about having don matically in the dugout. When you're there with BP and people
walking around, there's no sense of animosity. There's no sense of friction or negativity
at all. They all seem to be on the same page.
I would say the opposite. Yeah. John Schneider grew up. A Yankees fan had gone madder than
he was one of his early heroes. And what I've been told anyway is that Schneider basically
had to sign off on mattingly joining the fray. And management wanted to make sure that he'd
be comfortable with it. And at its base, it was a very smart move by management, I think,
to bring in a guy. Because you need, in this day and age in baseball, especially when there's
so much interference from the front office, even in game, you need a strong bench coach
but beside the manager. It's critical. And those two guys, mattingly and Schneider, got
on the same page very early. They work well together. They liaise with players together
quite well. And I think they have a similar mindset in terms of how the game should be
played. So to me, they're a really good tandem working together. And everything I've seen
from Don mattingly is he's very respectful of the manager's role. And he's also enjoying
being a teacher again. He likes to work with Gladrow Jr. at First Base. He likes to work
with hitters in the cage. He likes to be involved in all those sorts of things that he didn't
get an opportunity to do when he was managing the Marlins. And I think it's somewhat rejuvenated
him. And so far, anyway, chemistry wise, it's a good mix.
We have no idea, of course, what is going to happen in the future with regard to the results
of this ball club. But accordingly, as I said before, it's hard to predict what will
happen with the personnel. Is there anybody on this team that maybe is be considered suspect
right now? A guy who they might think about replacing a guy who they might send down to
the minor leagues. I mean, Bishio hasn't hit at all. He's a decent outfielder, an ending
fielder, and can play a bunch of positions. And I know that that has value or perceived
value. But you've got to do your job. And he hasn't he hasn't offensively done the job
so far. Has he? No, he hasn't at all. And I think Bob, if you're looking for one name,
it would be Kevin Bishio because he, you know, he's always been kind of a bench guy, but
at least he was a reliable bench guy. He could come in and contribute somewhat offensively.
He's a reasonable substitute late game for defense out in the outfield. He's fine there.
But when he brings nothing to the plate, I mean, now he's a he's a liability on your
roster. I think the difficulty with him or the certainly the curiosity with him is like
many players on this roster. He has a strong and long relationship with with John Schneider.
And you know, Schneider's got his back, but how long can you continue to live with it
with with the kind of performance that he said? The other one that that to me is is
concerning at this point is Alejandro Kirk. You know, he had that slow start. It's a
late arrival at spring training because he's waiting for his kid to be born. And he still
hasn't arrived at the plate. And you know, they relied on his bat so much last year. He was probably
next to Boba Shat, the most reliable bat in that order for so long. And he's just
he looks out of sync and out of sorts and becoming almost a liability when he's in the order. We're
starting to see Danny Jens and catch more games, I think, because of it. And they really need him
to snap out of it. I don't know if he's the kind of guy that they'd want to send down to the miners
and maybe they'd rather have him work work through it up here. But I'm not so sure how long they can
go with with Alejandro Kirk struggling at the plate the way that he has been and how it how
consistent is Jens and his bat? It hasn't been consistent. It hasn't been great. He's had some
big hints, but you know, his batting average is still, I don't know where he's at right now,
around 200. He's inching towards 200. He's had a he's had a good couple of weeks here. We'll see
if he can sustain that because I wouldn't have I wouldn't even say he's been a streaky hitter in
his career. I think he's been a guy who's gone through long stretches of of struggles at the plate
and then he'll get hot for a little while. You know, last year we saw so especially in September,
last year we saw him signs to being a much more reliable that are you can hit for power and you
know, he had a couple doubles in a home run last night. And he's had a couple of the walk-offs here
in the last week and a half or so. So starting to warm up, but they need they don't need they need
him to be more consistent because you have to have you have to have production from the from the
catcher position. And you know, when he's tended to be in in the eight hole in the lineup and you
know, that can that's the rally killer portion of the lineup when you've got a guy who's bad
heads been as cold as his has been for most of the season. It's funny, isn't it that you know,
catching was the one position a year ago at this time where you would have said the blue jay's are
set for the next 10 15 years. You know, who knows which way they're going to go, but they've got
three catches that they believe in. And now all of a sudden, maybe that's down to one.
One they traded away, one is in performing. So you got Janssen even he isn't hit, you know,
in honesty, his average he isn't hitting the way you want him to hit. No. And and the painful part of
it could be how Gabby Moreno does. I mean, he's been hitting very very well in Arizona. And
I've heard it describe this way. And I kind of I kind of agree with that. Like, I don't mind
that they trade to Gariel. I think Galton Varsho is as I mean, he hasn't hit his full stride yet,
but I think Varsho is going to be a decent guy in that roster. I think he's going to hit. And he's
he's a really, really strong left fielder. But Gabby Moreno might be a perennial All-Star. And
that might be a trade that that J's fans and and J's management regrets for like not just
this season, but for many seasons, because when you give away a prospect like that, who is, you know,
you have to be an impact in the big leagues and then goes goes on to start them. That's that's
a tough one. And everyone had him pegged as one of the top prospects in baseball when they traded
him. So that's going to be an interesting one to fall over the over the years, really. Oh, sure.
I know it's hindsight, Rob. But when when the discussions after the season ended
about the three catchers, were you a trade, Moreno or trade one of the other two guys?
I think if push came to shove, I would probably have traded Moreno because I would have thought
that you would that would be the case where you'd get the most value. If you felt that you were,
you know, you were trying to make an impact deal to bring somebody and they could really
change his roster and really help them become a contender immediately. He was the guy that was
going to get you something in return. And Dalton Varshow, that guy, well, we'll see. I mean,
he's got definitely has to hit better than he's been hitting. I think he's got seven home runs
right now. So he's shown some power. And as I said, he's really, really good. That I feel that
standing from the two corners to Keir Meyer in the middle. But is that the kind of impact player
that's going to make take you from being a contender to being a real threat to playoffs?
Drew is still a head on that one. I had a cat, Moreno, I must tell you, I just, I think Kirk is a
liability from a number of potential standpoints. Of course, if he's not hitting, that's a huge
liability. But let's face it, even if he gets a single and he's on base, he might be the, this
might be the slowest person in baseball. He might be the slowest runner in baseball. He is not going
to score from second base on almost anything that's fit. And he's a, he's a terrible base runner.
He's never going to beat out an infield single. Just he's slow. He's out of shape and he's slow,
period. And the fact that they, you know, I'm sure when you get close to the major leagues,
your organization says, look, you have to get in shape. You have to do this. You have to do that.
He has done nothing. I don't think he's lazy necessarily. But to be honest,
he's, he's not, he's not in athlete's condition. He's fat and he's slow. And, and you can't, you know,
it doesn't look like you're going to change that. So now you're down to Jansen as your one catcher,
or you, you, you, you, you know, you can go with one catcher that's, that's good and have a second
guy who sits in the dugout six days a week. But that's not the direction the blue Jays wanted to go.
Jansen isn't, is, I think he's a good catcher, but he's not great.
Marino had a chance to be, well, he has a chance to be one of the best catchers in all about baseball.
And it's a really important position. I think we all would agree to that.
Yeah. And I think there has to be some concern in the front office that
of the, of the way Kirk is, has been this year on a number of levels, like you say, Bob, he did,
there's no doubt that he came into, into training camp and much poorer, poorer shaped
and they saw him on the season ended last year, which wasn't good shape to begin with.
Now maybe they, you know, the, maybe they blame it on the winter that he had waiting for his kid,
but these are professional athletes, you know, you got to, you got to come in. I mean,
especially when you're at that stage of your career where, you know, you've had some success and,
and you want to continue that success and continue on that arc and the team expects that from you.
And then you come in and you're not in good shape. And then you're, you know, you're vaunted
that the ball skills are not what they were last year as well. And then your glacier like on the
bases where you can barely make it from first to third on a double in the corner. You know,
those are all concerns and we're seeing it. We're seeing it, we're seeing management react to it by,
by having him catch less of the pitchers and spending more time on the bench. But that is not
as you said, Bob, that is not the way that you drew it up. They expected both of those guys to,
to be impact players. They expected Janssen to have my season at the plate like he did last
September and then they expected Kirk to continue to perform like he had last year.
And they're really not getting it. And, and are we at the stage where it's a liability? Probably
too early to say that. But it certainly opens a second guessing of for, for, for dealing
Marino at this point. But Rob, well, I agree. But don't we forget how young Kirk is too? I mean,
they're, he and Marino are about the same age, aren't they? Yeah, that's fair. I mean, he is young
and, and, you know, his, his rise to the big leagues was, was very, was very quick. He spent
very little time in the minor leagues. And, and often we see hitters struggle when, when, when,
you know, they have some success in the league gets wise to how to pitch to him.
But I think, I think there's some truth to what Bob said. Like he's, he's not in the condition that
he was last year. And, um, I don't think he's not on your straggle. I gotta be honest with you, Rob.
I don't think he's, look at the guy was not in shape last year. He did not look like he's hitting
disguised though, but he's hitting disguised it, right? Well, you accepted what you saw, I think,
because he could hit. Right. I mean, look, he said he is out of shape. He was out of shape. He's
been out of shape since he's come up. He's a little fat guy. And, and he, there is no evidence that
he's that he's lost any weight at any point, or he maybe he hasn't even tried. I don't understand,
I don't understand that. I don't understand how you tolerate that from a player,
but especially when his performance isn't, isn't what you hope, but they have, but they,
they, this is a team that has been pretty proactive on these things. Look, and they,
they finally got Guerrero to slim down. That. Well, exactly. So, so they, they, obviously,
there was, you know, management of the Blue Jays took some role in that. You know, you assume Guerrero
did a lot of that himself, obviously, but, you know, I think management went to him at some point,
maybe several times and said, look, you, how much better a player you would be if you weren't,
you know, if you didn't weigh what you weighed. Well, have they not done that with Kirk?
Well, you have the scenes we don't, behind the scenes we don't know, right? But I would imagine
that they would have done something. The difficulty, and I, and I've seen it, and Bob,
you've probably seen it for being around baseball enough is very difficult to, to,
to change yourself physically in the middle of a season just because of the grind. Like,
the current stretch you're going through, for example, 17 games in 17 days, 30 and 31, it's like,
you're just trying to, trying to get through each day. Can you, these are the dog days yet,
Rob? No, they're not even the dog days. But like, how do you, like, how do you get, you know,
how do you get some momentum that way? I mean, they do have all the resources in the world. They
have one of the best weight rooms in baseball, blah, blah, blah, they've got all these nutritionists
and medical coach and physical coaches and this and that. So I guess there really isn't any excuse.
And you know, perhaps behind the scenes, they're working on it with, with Kirk, but it's,
it's difficult to do in season because, because it's not that difficult. It's not that difficult.
I'm an old guy and I lost 30 pounds, you know, and I'm not, I'm not going to the gym. I'm not,
I don't have all the help around me that I need. You're just to eat less and try and do more.
It's not that difficult. I've screwed that up. I'm doing it the other way around.
I'm eating more. I'm doing less. Well, then you're going to be fat. It's as simple as that.
But you're not a professional baseball player and neither am I.
Bob's writing a new book. Guys in his early 20s and he's slow and fat.
Period. Oh, yes, he can. Yes, he could afford to lose some weight, Robert. You're correct.
He could afford to lose 30, 40, maybe 40 pounds. He's not 10 pounds overweight. You know, 10
pounds overweight. Okay, that kind of thing happens and you can get out of that. You've got to
consciously say, you know what, I'm a fat pantler. No, but here's the thing.
Maybe some weight off, but here's the thing. Well, I have a need.
Well, because last year he played at a rather large weight and was very effective. So why change?
I mean, he, you know, tell me he didn't have a good season last year.
Well, he had a good enough season last year. They could trade their number one prospect.
Well, that was a mistake number one. And I think they're seeing right now. I think if you
went to them right now and said, would you, would you do that deal over again?
I think the answer would be no. I don't, I think they're very, they're quite content with
Vartio and they, and they liked that part of the deal. But look, the other guy they traded to
Arizona, Gary, heading straight the other day. I played well. Yeah. Well, actually,
I'm reading, reading one of the, are you surprised at that?
No, not at all. Because Gary is one of the streakiest hitters in baseball.
We saw that this time with the Blue Jays, right? I mean, he'd go, he'd go on a tear like that
with the Jays and then he wouldn't, he wouldn't get ahead for a week and a half. So like I said
earlier, I don't, you know, I don't think they'll regret the Gary L part of the trade, but the
Moreno one they might. Well, I think they do right now. I would. I do. Yeah. Listen, we got to go.
We got to take a break. Rob Longley is with us. We'll be back after this message.
We all know how to use the internet, but most of us don't know how the internet uses us.
So instead of figuring out how I can protect myself from the unknown, that is the worldwide web,
I just got Nord VPN to do it for me. First and foremost, what's a VPN? It stands for virtual
private network. Pretty much a VPN creates a secure connection from your device to your network.
And Nord VPN does it the best. It took me literally the click of one button to connect to their
security package. And now all six of my devices are protected from malware, web tracking,
intrusive ads and infected files. Also, it has access to over 6,000 servers across the world,
which means if a TV show or movie doesn't stream in your country, you can just switch to a country
server where it does get four extra months and a 30 day money back guarantee when you buy Nord VPN
by heading to Nord VPN dot com slash Bobcast. Go to Nord VPN dot com slash Bobcast for four
extra months on your security package.
But count and channel back with you with Rob Longley. One thing we haven't discussed yet is
the other issue in the pitching staff is that of Manoa. The guy who is the, you know, he was
he was the number one starter for the Blue Jays this year. He certainly was their best pitcher
last year. He's a guy who's the expectations were high of. And right now, nobody seems
to have a handle on what the problem is. Do you do you think you have any idea what what what
Mo is going through? No, I mean, I hear you hear all the theories, right? That maybe he's heard a
little bit or that he put on too much muscle in the in the off season with his with his workout
regimen sort of the opposite of Alejandro Kirk, I guess. Yeah, I think it's I think it's
really I think it's just something mechanical. I mean, it's you know, maybe it's too simple to
just love it off as that. But just if you watch his body language, you can tell that he's he's
got to sink a little bit and he knows it, right? He's and he really grinds between starts trying
to figure out what's what's wrong. And we saw he was a little bit better in his last outing. And
you know, I think you're talking to the pitching coaches. I think they they believe that he's
he's close to figuring it out, whatever whatever that means. But you know, they really need him
to be that guy, like a lot of people thought going to the season that Kevin Gossman would
probably be the better of the two anyway, that there might be room for some regression for Manoa.
Maybe his he was flattered his numbers flattered him a little bit last last season. And you know,
the age old thing in baseball that the hitters get wise to pitchers when they see more of them.
Those are all factors, but simple fact is he hasn't been anywhere close to what
this team expected of them when they they made him the opening day starter, the opening day and
the home opener starter. And you know, he really has maybe had a couple, two good starts out of
the bunch of the eight or nine that he's had so far and and no momentum yet. Right. Keep caring,
John Schneider say that, you know, all he needs is to get a good start and then and build off of that.
Well, they're still waiting for that. I don't doubt that he will figure it out at some point
because the guy's pretty smart for a kid with a limited experience and kind of remember,
didn't pitch a hole out in the minor leagues. So this is really the first time that he's
he struggled in his pro career. So that's got to be a bit of a challenge for him.
But he works hard, you know, he works hard. And I'll give you I'll give you that. The thing that
I don't I don't think this is the reason why he's not having a good year, but
he was 95, 96 even 97 with the fastball last year. He is 92 93.
And probably at or near the top at 92 93 with the fastball this year. Do I think that is the problem?
No, I don't. But it's indicative that this guy is not pitching the way he wants to or the way he is
trying to. And I am I am puzzled by the fact that the organization has him enabled to, you know,
fix the problem. Because we know that we know this guy is one of the top at his best.
This is one of the top pitches in baseball. And he is not right now.
He is he is struggling almost with every outing. Yeah, throwing a lot of pitches, a lot of balls.
He doesn't have he doesn't have the command he did. Can't throw the pitches where he wants.
And he hasn't got the velocity. I'm wondering Rob, how have the new rules affected him?
Maybe it's a it's a possibility. I mean, I do I agree, Bob. I think the velocity is a little bit
of a concern. And I but I do think that's related to the to the mechanical issues that he's that he's
that he's going through is lower half not being completely in sync with his upper half. But to
your point, John, he was one of the more deliberate pitchers on that staff last year. So it was certainly
a more of adjustment and adjustment for him than than others. I think in the rotation and maybe he's
struggled with it some. But having said that, he had, you know, a number of starts in spring training
and he's eight or nine into this. So he should he should be into more of a rhythm that way. I,
you know, I think it's been maybe a challenge for him, but I don't think it's an excuse for him. I
think I still believe that the issues are more mechanical than anything else because
physically he seems fine. He worked, you know, he does this does this the same he throws every day,
you see him throwing every day. And you know, he hasn't taken any time off. He's he seems to be
sound that in that regard. So it's just the mechanical stuff, you know, anything else you're
you're reaching for excuses, I think. Do you think they are being too limiting in number of pitches
that a starting pitcher both can or will throw? We've seen one complete game this year, which is a
lot more than we would normally see. Yet we've seen a bunch of situations where starters
who seem to be doing well are being taken out with a hundred or fewer pitches. And we understand
that that's the way baseball is thinking these days. But it's not the way I'm thinking to tell you
the truth. Like, you know, I wouldn't be the least bit concerned if a guy threw 120 pitches on the
game. If you're going well, let him throw agree or disagree. I agree 100%. But those days are long
behind us now. I mean, I don't doubt that when when Schneider let Kevin Gossman stay in to get
our sorry, not Kevin Gossman, but Chris Bass to stay in and get that complete game.
Shadow a few weeks back that he probably heard about it from the front office because that's just
not the thing that they're allowed to do. I mean, guys get to 100 and there's multiple guys up in
the bullpen. We've seen a couple guys go to 110 at Gossman went to 110 the other day. Part of that
was because the bullpen was was kind of worn out. But which leads to the other problem, of course,
because when you are limiting guys, you're not letting them go much beyond 85, 90, 95 pitches.
Then you're going to the bullpen earlier and the bullpen gets burnt out. And that's been an issue
with this team in the past. It's already a developing issue within this year and it certainly was one
last year that bullpen was on fumes by the end of the year. But that's just the way it is. It's
all numbers analytics match up driven and it's not going to change, especially with this franchise.
That's all gobbledygook is what it is. At least in my opinion, if a guy is pitching well and he's
throwing 100 pitches and you go to the bullpen, every guy that you may bring out of that bullpen
may not be good that day. Well, you have a guy who's pitching well on the mound. You know that
he's pitching well. He's thrown six, seven, who knows, maybe eight innings well. And now you go to
somebody who you have no idea whether they have it that day or not. And every we know this,
every pitcher has off days, every one of them. So you're going to bring in somebody you have no
idea, no clue what they're going to bring on that occasion. So I don't see, I don't see how that
creates a situation where it's it's you're going to win more games. You may save your pitchers.
I'll give you that. You know, if a guy only throws 80, 85 pitch, excuse me, a start
from over the course of a year, his arms going to be probably in better shape by the time you get
to September that much I will acknowledge. But are you going to win more games over that time?
I say, no, you're not. You're not going to win more games. You're going to have more situations
where your bullpen fails. I guess you just wish that there was there was more room or
more allowance for managers to to manage on instinct as much as the analytics. Why can't you
have more of a blend of the two, right? Because you're right. All right. I'll take a couple of
crapshoot element from guys coming out of the bullpen. But so let it go. If the velocity is still
there, I mean, if the guy's still hitting his spots and you got a four run lead, why don't you let
the guy pitch the eighth? Have you get a couple runners on base? All right, go crazy. Make the
trade now. But let let a guy get deep into a game. Save the bullpen for the next night. Why not?
Yeah. Well, let me ask you this. And maybe this is too simplistic. With this team at 26 and 23,
is the disappointment more in the starters or is it in the bullpen?
I think in the bullpen, because in some ways that the rotation has over or over achieved.
Gossman has been really good. burios has been much better than he was last year.
Kakuchi's been dramatically better than he was last year. And Chris Bausett, other than his first
game, has been one of the best starters in the American League. So the rotation has more than
done its part so far. I agree. Actually, I don't I'm you know, I guess you'd agree with you and say
the bullpen if given the choice of those two. But the truth of the matter is, again, we'll go back
to the beginning of our conversation. This team, while their batting averages are okay collectively,
they're not getting hits at key moments. That is a reason why this team has underperformed.
Did you have runners in scoring position all the time? And they can't bring them in.
You know, how many times do they ground it into double plays this year in key situations?
It's happened a lot. And I don't think that's the kind of thing that you can
coach your way out of. You just hope you you're going through a cycle where that is happening.
And that that cycle ends soon. Do you not? Yeah, like prior prior to last night's silliness,
that 20 to one game. Yeah, James, where the run differential was plus five. There was like,
there's 10 teams in the American League that had a better run differential than they did. And
that's just telling you all you need to know about what's happening with this team. They're just
not scoring enough runs. Obviously, they're not scoring enough runs in critical times in ball
games. But if you take the pitching staff as a whole, I think that the reason for the team being
just three games about 500 at this point has more to do with the lack of performance in key
situations at the plate than it does with what's kind of the posing hitters.
Well, you've got how many guys, four, five guys hitting 300 right now, even now.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's four at the very least. And it may be five. I mean,
give me any team in baseball that has five guys that hit 300 and have scored so few runs.
I don't think there's another one. I mean, to Blue Jays are at the top of the list
in that category. Do you buy the hard luck theory too? There's a lot of hard hit balls
where being hit right at a guy. I guess it's your old hit them where they ain't kind of thing.
But they seem to want to fall into that a lot of the time. And to a certain extent,
there is some truth to it because before the really bad funk of the last few days, there was
there was some decent at bats that they were getting nothing from. But that happens.
That's an excuse or a real deal. Look, I don't think hitting is that much of a science.
When you get up there, you're trying to hit the ball. You're not trying. Are you conscious of
whether that, Hey, I don't want to hit a ground ball here? Of course. Can you do something about
it? The answer I think is no. I think you try and hit the ball. If you hit on top of it,
it's a ground ball. And you, you know, change that every time and hit nothing but fly balls.
No, nobody is that good. It's just too tough to do. So I think this, you know, ground ball
double play mentality is just something you go through periodically over the course of a season.
And the Blue Jays have are going through that. They have been going through that for quite a while.
Then, you know, they aren't getting what we call key hits. You know, they're not getting the RBI
shots that they should be. They're a better hitting team than their than their spot than their record
would suggest. I think I agree. You see, I agree on a percent. Yeah. Yeah. Have you seen as many
long balls as you thought you would, Rob? No, not really. I mean, I mean, obviously,
this team gave up some long balls when they got rid of Hernandez and Gareel, but I, you know,
Vlad, yeah, Guerrero hasn't hit one in Toronto yet. You know, I know. I mean, he hit that grand slam
on Tuesday, but he did it off of the basically. Yeah, that really made a lot better. So they
shouldn't even count that baby. But I mean, he's still hitting the ball hard, but I would have,
you know, I would have thought that he would have he would have had more than he has. You know,
Chapman's hit a few. But they're not they're not the long ball team that they were the last two seasons
by any stretch. And I'm not so sure why they're not flying out at the Roger Center. The risk has
been open a lot of maybe there's been some wind has been a little bit of a factor, but
maybe they're just not that kind of a team. Maybe they're the team that's meant to score
singles doubles, you know, get guys on base and do it that way. That's kind of what they told us
they'd be in spring training. But the Tampa Bay Rays, who we've never thought of as a, as a
slugging team in the past have 94 home runs right now, most in the majors. And, you know, so the
long ball doesn't hurt things, you know, you try to get enough friends going. It's you want to do
the other things as well, but you want to be able to hit it out. Don't you think that this the
mood chase organization has psychologically encouraged their players to try and get more
base hits rather than go up there and try and hit long ball all the time? You don't think that
philosophically that's where they are? Oh, I think it's exactly where they are. You can see they
stress that the road spring training, they've stressed the throughout the season, you know,
next man up, get the guy on the base, move him along. And, you know, when it works, it works.
They have guys that can do that, but Marryfield can seem to seem to be able to hit the ball to
all parts of the field. Boba Shedd is one of the many good things about Boba Shedd as a hitter is
that he uses the whole field as well. Matt Chapman, that was one of the big things he worked on in
the offseason was to be able to hit the ball in the different places of the ballpark. And he's done
that effectively for especially in April. So yeah, that was definitely a part of their offensive
strategy, if you will. There is such a thing in baseball and they've tried to be emphasized
and significance of home runs and made it about small ball for lack of a better term.
Hey, I got to ask you about two guys before we go. Nate Pearson, what do you think? What's he
done? Has he impressed you? Yeah, first Pearson has impressed me a lot. In fact, he's I think he's
impressed people so much that that's why they put him in a high-level leverage situation on the
weekend when there weren't any arms in the bullpen that were suitable to handle the night
inning and extra innings there on the weekend. And they gave the ball to him and he earned it.
Yeah, he's been more poised than he's been in the past and seems to have certainly been
more mature. And I think we discussed that earlier in the season. And now we're starting to see his
confidence come with it. And give him the struggles of Jimmy Garcia, especially in the eighth inning
and more recently of Eric Swanson. If Pearson continues on this path, he could be a very, very
significant high-leveler guy. And by that, I mean, eighth and maybe even a ninth inning.
It's basketball. He's right up there at 100 miles an hour most nights and he's got a curve ball to go
with it and touching with confidence. He impressed me greatly. And I know you're not there, but I
understand there was a Ryu sighting in Tampa. Yeah, Ryu, I saw him in spring training and he
he was trimmed up dramatically and looks like even more so. And he told reporters in Tampa yesterday
that he threw a bullpen session for one thing at the Trop and while the counts looked pretty good
doing it. But he is targeting post-all-star break, which would be to me somewhat ambitious. And I
think internally the JAs are like, well, that would be the best case scenario because typically when
you have a guy coming out to Tommy John and the long rehab that goes with it, you, the timelines,
you have to be conservative with them because there's always a setback. Now, Ryu hasn't had one yet,
but the closer you get to returning to game form, and by that, I mean, you start to throw with
more velocity and throwing off the man more. That's when you start to see minor regressions. So
mid July may be a little bit optimistic, but if he can be back, whether in the rotation or
is a long reliever and effectively doing so, by mid August, he could be a very important arm down
the stretch for this team. Well, you mentioned long reliever. I suspect that is probably the role
that he would have to fit right now because I'm not sure that you replace one of your five starters
right now. Ryu would be your sixth starter on the occasion when you need it, but otherwise,
he'd be out of the bullpen, wouldn't he? Yeah, there's two guys that want him to be a starter.
One is young Jin Ryu himself and the other is a day. It's got force because he's going to be a
free agent this year. Of course, yeah. Of course, yeah. Of course, he gets real Ryu hopes that he
gets one more contract, right? Right. But realistically, yeah, unless somebody gets hurt in the rotation or
or really struggles, you know, I don't I don't know how you come up Tommy John John in late July
and early August and and move right into the rotation that would be a very ambitious move.
So yeah, I think bullpen long relief would be where I would put him anyway.
Actually, you know, we need to get out of here, right? Yeah, I was just going to say 50 games in.
We haven't really seen a major injury yet, dude. That's the other fascinating thing about this team.
No, we haven't. Yeah, yeah. And you know, and they're struggling despite that.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We must we must get out. We have a time issue. Longly, thank you very much, pal.
Well, let's talk to you again soon. I hope. Take care. Sounds good. Thanks, guys. Thank you.
Longly, we'll be back after this. When was the last time everyone agreed on what's for dinner?
You want Chinese food? They want pizza and someone is always craving froyo.
Well, there's something for everyone on DoorDash. Ordering is easy. Open up the DoorDash app,
choose what you want from where you want, and your items will be left safely outside your door
with our default contactless delivery setting. For a limited time, our listeners can get 25% off
and zero delivery fees on their first order of $15 or more when you download the DoorDash app
and enter code Bobcast23. That's 25% off up to $10 in value and zero delivery fees on your first
order when you download the DoorDash app in the app store and enter code Bobcast23. Don't forget,
that's code Bobcast23 for 25% off of your first order with DoorDash subject to change terms apply.
We're counting on Shannon back with you. Thanks again to Rob Longley for joining us with our Bluejig talk.
Vegas wins in the NHL. Yeah, not only wins, but decisively.
Well, they won the first 10 minutes of the hockey game is what they did.
But yeah, but then they did cruise control. You're right, cruise control. There was no need.
I mean, Jamie Ben made a silly play. He'll have a hearing with the cross check to Mark Stone.
He'll get some games. But effectively, if Dallas shows up in game four, I'll be shocked.
This series is over and we're going to be talking to the Stanley Cup final and for the second time
in six years in Las Vegas. Yeah. And then tonight is tonight. Well, I mean Carolina
Carolina is supposed to be better than this. You know, I know that I know that there's a lot
of people saying, well, Bobrowski's beating them, but you got to beat the goalie. You've got to
beat the goalie. And this Bob, I remember we've talked about this a half a dozen times all season
long about the Carolina Hurricanes. Who was going to be the goal scorer that said, boy,
drop it back. And I'm going to score that key goal. We've, you know, we have seen it out of
other teams at key times, you know, now in Vegas, it's Jack Eichler, Mark Stone doing all of that.
And Carolina, for all the good things they do for the defense they have, they're searching for
someone to say, jump on my back. And right now it doesn't seem to happen. And Florida's playing
so well defensively. It's not very exciting hockey at times. But Florida's playing very well
defensively that Carolina can't fix it. And Bobrowski's been spectacular.
Well, Florida's been magical during the playoffs in all three series to tell you the truth.
Well, how about this? How about this? Seven games against Boston? Well, you know what,
it's going to get tougher against Toronto. Five games against Toronto. Well, it's going to get
tougher against Carolina. And now they're on the verge of a sweep.
Oh, three and oh, right. Yeah, sure. So it's gotten easier for them as opposed to getting harder for
them. And they played very well. You know, between Matthew, and sorry,
they've won some five four games or whatever. And they win someone nothing type games.
Yeah, they can play any way you want. And by the way, so can Vegas. Exactly.
So Vegas can play that way too. That's why it's actually going to be a pretty good
final series if it ends up being Vegas and. And I actually agree with you. I don't know
whether anybody will watch. But I think the hockey should be great.
Well, I must tell you, I'm worried about I'm worried about the goal scoring. I really am.
I want I think we need more goal scoring, Bob. You know, it or at least more scoring chances.
No, we needed that for a hundred years. Well, I think they had fixed it.
You know, I mean, look at the look at the goal score. But they didn't. The regular season is
inconsequent. No concert round of playoffs was wild. I gave you that first round was wild when it
came to goal scoring. So what are you going to do? I don't know. I what are you going to do to fix it?
There's nothing they can do. Call more penalties. Get more power, please.
Do you really think the referees have been eating their whistle? No, I don't. I don't.
Neither do I. I think, you know, when you see when you see penalties in overtime, they're not
eating their whistle, Bob. Exactly. We got to get out of here. We'll we'll contemplate our
navels and come back to you tomorrow with something. I'm not. We hope you'll join us for that.
We thank you very much. Goodbye, everybody.
♪♪♪
.