Selling Teams, Expanding The League, Playoff Hockey & More With NHL Commissioner GARY BETTMAN

Hello everybody. This is the Bob McCallen podcast and of course it's brought to you by Bet Rivers. Download the Bet Rivers Online Casino and Sportsbook app today. Hello Mr. Shannon. Hockey Roundtable today. Not exactly a hockey roundtable. Well it is a hockey roundtable essentially. Yes it is. But it's only going to be three of us. The Commissioner of the National Hockey League Gary Bettman will join us as he does, what, twice a year on average. And he just loves coming on with you. Yeah I know he does. I can't figure it out. You know we went a long time. We didn't say no. We didn't say hello to each other. Old news. He likes you now. You're with me. Well he liked me after Rod just spent $5.2 billion. Well they're still spending it. So yeah well you ain't kidding. So lots of issues on the table with Mr. Bettman. Yes. Enough. Enough to get a good show out of it I think. You have some ideas as to your questions I assume. I have questions Bob. Alright let's get at it. Gary Bettman when we come back after this message. Hi this is Bob McCowan for BettRivers.com. Hey if you're looking for a sports book or casino app you should check out the Bett Rivers Sports and Casino app today. Play all of your favorite casino games for real money anywhere and anytime. Plus get in the action with each sports game with hundreds of sports betting options. And get ready to feel like a VIP because you'll earn both loyalty level points and bonus store points on every real money wager you make. You must be 19 plus available in Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 or speak to an advisor free of charge. BettRivers.com. McCowan and Shannon back with you and we are joined by the Commissioner of the National Hockey League. Gary Bettman is with us from his office in Manhattan. Well I'm inclined to ask you how you are generally speaking but you've been under the weather right? The last few days? You may hear it. I've been fucking off for the last month. Too many planes, too many handshakes, not enough sleep with late night games but I'm not complaining I'm just coughing. By the way by the way 25 years ago today you remember what you were doing. I have trouble remembering what I did yesterday. 25 years ago today. No, refresh my recollection. You assigned a piece of paper that said the Nashville Predators were a member of the National Hockey League. Happy Anniversary Nashville. Yeah and when you look back at what the expansion teams have done for this league there's some pretty damn good stories right now isn't there? Incredible stories, not just on the ice but off the ice as well. Look at the support both Vegas and Seattle have. The TV numbers have been remarkable and both teams have developed loyal fan bases, great traditions and one of the criteria for expansion is would having this franchise make the league stronger? And the answer for both of those franchises has been a resounding yes. But in Nashville's story was a bit of a roller coaster early but it really has become that as well hasn't it? Yeah I mean part of it is you know it's interesting. When you look at how competitive Vegas and Seattle have been we learned the lesson that probably most sports league over time figure out. When you bring in an expansion team if you don't give them a competitive team in any sport the initial enthusiasm wears off after a couple of years and maybe a decade out they're competitive. Because of the system we have decided we want to bring in competitive teams and that's what we've managed to do which was a function of both the way we structured expansion and what a good job both of those organizations did setting themselves up. Even the success of those two new teams is expansion high on your radar right now further expansion? No it's not high on my radar at all. I know it's gotten a lot of attention that we're getting expressions of interest from Quebec City, land that used in Salt Lake City but it's not something we're focused on. Yeah I you know I take calls and meetings I listen but it's not something we're pursuing certainly not now. What would somebody have to say in order to spike your interest? I'm not really sure. Okay with all the things we're dealing with and with as strong a season as we've had we would have to say you know what we need to focus on this and at least at this point that hasn't been the case. Maybe it's ownership expressing interest but not getting deep enough maybe it's the need for a new arena somewhere. I mean there are a variety of factors. If somebody came in and said here's the whole package up or down now then I suppose we'd have to consider it but again it's not something in the list of things we're doing that says you know what we need to be doing this right now it's just not. Yeah one of the things that you have to be doing right now is finding a new owner for the Ottawa Senators. That doesn't seem to be a difficult task. What's the amount of interest being expressed? Are you shocked by this? I need an honest answer honestly. No I'm not. I'm very pleased. I actually think that our franchises are going to become increasingly more valuable than they even are now and I think for some period of time the perception has been that we've been undervalued. You know there are four major sports leagues in North America. There's a limited number of franchises. We tell a pretty compelling story about our growth retroactively and prospectively and I think when you come into this league you know that we have a system that enables you if you're well run to be competitive. The game that takes place on the ice is in great shape. Our first round of the playoffs have been phenomenal aesthetically and competitively and so if you're interested in sports you want to own a team. Why wouldn't you want to be a part of the NHL? Has the timeline surprised you Gary or is this exactly where you thought it would play out? I'm not the one running the process. There's an investment banker in New York who's retained by Eugene Melmick's estate. I mean he consults with me and I know what's going on. I think the timeline may be about right, maybe a little slower because of how many prospective bidders there are that have to do their due diligence but it's great to see and as important as anything else it should tell all the fans in Ottawa that this franchise is going to have a very right future right there in Ottawa. Maybe not in Canada, maybe downtown but the fact is that the nation's capital is generating a tremendous amount of interest for prospective NHL owner and I think that's good for every everybody who has any interest in that franchise. So how much discussion would you have with the Galliano sports group? I mean basically updates in terms of timing and who's doing what, you know sometimes whether or not the process is getting too much publicity, you know whether or not things are getting weak that shouldn't be but you know it's day to day, you know I probably talked to him a couple of times a week where he gives me an update or he has a question about how maybe he should handle something, I'm there to help him but he's the one who's handling the mechanics of the process, the bidding to due diligence and everything that's attendant to that. I've got to ask you the whole concept of reading about ownership groups in the newspaper. I see that Ryan Reynolds, there's lots of stories about Ryan Reynolds and the Bratty group and reading today that Snoop Dogg get an interview about his potential purchase and he's been on ESPN talking about it, does that help the process or what does that do to it? I think if people want to express an interest, I'm good with that saying yeah I want to be involved, the nuts and bolts of what's going on, who's bidding what, I don't think that helps the process and a lot of it I believe is you know part of the negotiation where maybe one group or another is trying to get a leg up or a discourage of the bidding, who knows but you know me until something's done, the less publicity the better. I was going to say but this does look a little bit like a poker game. Oh you know and I don't think that's the appropriate way for it to go down and you know there's a lot being speculated about that is simply inaccurate and on occasion I'll make a phone call to suggest the correction as to why whatever the sourcing is isn't something that should be listened to but again you and you guys know we both know enough when until it's fully baked it shouldn't be getting all this attention but you know that's the world we live in and we accept it and we deal with it. Do you care at all about celebrity involvement? I think that's me go ahead. I don't know I think it can be a plus for the franchise going forward but the bids are going to have to stand on their own merit. Yeah and the key of moving you mentioned downtown where in your list of importance of an ownership group saying yes we're going we're going to go downtown they don't have an agreement to go downtown yet they still have to negotiate that so how important is that? I think that's something the new owner has to explore. There are opportunities to go downtown to multiple sites actually and when somebody actually gets in there looks under the hood sees what the engine's like you'll have to make a decision as to whether or not they think it's a good opportunity. At 10,000 feet I think it's a good opportunity but the devil as they say will be in the details and it probably, viscerally would be a good thing and a good opportunity for the team to be downtown but there's nothing wrong with the building they're in now it's just you know based on population movement and ships and where people are living in you know millennials and gen Z's more downtown less driving it may be for the future that it is better off downtown but it's not something that hard in the past you have to do it I think that's going to really be up to the person who ultimately owns this club. But the perception is that the sale of the Ottawa senators is essentially a real estate deal that revolves around them I mean they are the key piece in that you have to have that in order to get a new arena which would have you know who knows what kind of infrastructure around it and they'd be the draw but you're talking about a billion dollars for the franchise give or take you're probably talking four or five billion or more in total expenditure for all the buildings that would surround a new arena. Do you get involved in that? That's a big deal. Wait to the extent we need to help in council and we're invited to what we do. The purchase of the team excuse me I don't view as a real estate play because I think the team's valuable on its own and in fact anybody who ultimately winds up being the purchaser isn't going to have any guarantees on a real estate play. So there is a potential opportunity but that is the fix. At the end of the day though you know we get asked a lot of questions whether it's in Tempe in Arizona or may turn out to be the case in Ottawa in terms of what we think works well based on our experience around North America. I do believe a project which includes an arena and retail and restaurants and mixed use in terms of offices and residential can be a really exciting and attractive opportunity not just for a sports team but for the city in which you're building this type of project it literally can transform an area and the way people function down pound just look at Edmonton. Well exactly. If there are seven groups that are actively in this bidding process would you do you vet them beforehand or how does that work? Is a preliminary vetting which isn't approval to be an owner but it's a preliminary vetting to go into the process when we get down to one or two then obviously when the Board of Governors has to approve a new owner we're going to ask a deeper dot but everybody's being vetted at least preliminarily. You mentioned Tempe. 16th of May there's a referendum there for I guess you can mail in vote now actually. But people have been voting I think I just saw our account that you know they're like somewhere close to 20,000 votes already and not counted but in. What you're hopeful you have a feel you obviously I know you were out there lobbying for it for the referendum what's your gut on what's going to happen in Tempe? I'm hopeful that you know I don't want to be presumptuous to the people who are happy who are voting on this but this is to me a win-win project among other things there's a waste dump that's proximate to downtown and once 40 or 50 acres that's completely unusual, unusable and Alex Morello the owner of the coyotes is going to remediate it with his own funds turn it into a useful vibrant part of the city. Tempe is an exciting place ASU Arizona State University is there which I think is the largest public university in North America. There's a lot of building that's going on and this is just another opportunity to enhance the quality of life in Tempe and do it on something right now that it has been unusable for decades I think it actually spontaneously caught fire last summer and to really make it something nice and it's being done privately. I'm not sure why anybody should be concerned about it any issues about traffic or noise of all those have been addressed. The last I think four mayors of Tempe have all endorsed this project and it's going to have a positive economic benefit for Arizona as well so you know I don't want to as I said I don't want to be presumptuous but I'm hopeful that people will look at this project on the merits. I mean listen they're going to always be detractors who have other agendas but at the end of the day if you look at the merits of this project it really is a win win. And I know you're you're a multi-faceted thinker. What if it doesn't pass? Michael in there. Okay. I'm just like it's not a question I'm prepared to answer. It's not something I'm considering right now. Okay and so I understand. It's the right by the way. It's the right question. Okay. I'm Michael in it. No that's fair. But here's the other question that people you know I I don't know if you know but once I defend what the league does on many platforms. When was that? It started last Tuesday. It started last Tuesday Gary. It did not. I know. So here is so so why why do you still believe in Phoenix? Well it first of all the the coyotes have a very strong passionate fan base. A hockey's played at all levels. Just ask Boston Matthews who will tell you if it wasn't for him as a four or five year old going to a coyotes game with his uncle he wouldn't be playing hockey and it's a vibrant thriving growing market. It's you know it's it's a top I believe it's a top 10 market in the United States. It's a good place you want to be. It's one of these franchises where we can get it finally placed the right way. We'll be a strengthening and a strength for the league. So you know I listen I know there's some old history on this. We don't like to move franchises. You do that as a last resort. We haven't moved to franchise in ages and Michael and there's certainly no reason now because thirty two healthy franchises healthier than they've ever been. We had circumstances particularly in the 90s where the league wasn't as healthy and markets weren't as healthy and new buildings weren't on the horizon where we had no choice. I don't like relocation ever. It's a terrible thing to do. But what you know I don't know if this has happened or not. What if somebody said here's a whack-a-doh and I don't know what a whack-a-doh would be in the in the NHL world but here's a whack-a-doh. Well you know now it's a billion dollars. Okay so it's at least a billion. Here's a billion dollars we want to buy the Arizona franchise but we want to move it to wherever. You know Atlanta says this story says Atlanta wants to build a new arena and they want back in the National Hockey League. I mean Alex Merritt has no interest in selling the club. He's committed to building a new arena and his project assuming approval by the good citizens of Tempe. The city council unanimously approved it twice and so at the end of the day it's not about a whack money. It's about having your franchise is healthy and strong where they are and that's what we're committed to build. Do you get pressure from the other from the governors about the size of mullet and the fact that let's say that there's three years from now that there will be an arena built. There's still only there's three more years of a five thousand seat arena in the National Hockey League. There are gross revenues from ticket sales at mullet as higher than it was in Glendale. Okay that tells you everything about location. And by the way I don't know if you've been there. Obviously it's temporary. Sure. It's a fun experience. I mean really well you know I was in a game there the last week of the regular season. It's a fun place to be. Yes it's temporary it has to be temporary. It's not anything we could consider for the long term but at the end of the day to get to where we want to be and we need to be. It was the right solution and frankly there were no other choices because Glendale in despite what they were saying about the didn't want the team there when when they heard that the Coyotes wanted to build a building in Tempe said sign a 20 year lease or get out. And that was what they tried to do in the Phoenix Suns you know at least on the prior ownership because they've just had a controlling owner change. That was never compared to share their arena with the Coyotes. So this was what had to be done in this short term and for those who better would change it's actually been fun. It makes you so confident that Tempe will be a better home than Glendale was. Location location location. Yeah. And the the value of the Sun skews particularly for our fans to the eastern side which is the happiest. It has a place where you know it's by Scottsdale it's by Phoenix. It is a great location the land in question excuse me is right off the highway. It is the right location and people will tell you and I don't know if you've been to a game in Glendale to get from Scottsdale to Glendale you know particularly during the week can take you an hour and 45 minutes just this would have been so much easier when the Jets moved there to put the arena in Scottsdale we wouldn't be having this discussion. And there was also to do it there was a mall that was being wrecked in Scottsdale which would have been a perfect location but Scottsdale the governmental entity at the time for whatever reason couldn't come to terms with dealing with it at that time. But yeah we wouldn't the fortunes of the Coyotes would have been a whole lot different if they were originally a building on the east side. Calgary. Yes. It's a great site. I mean this is this is also one that's based on an election though too so you got your fingers crossed there. Yeah well I mean I know that they have what their elections the end of May. There's an agreement in place finally for a new event center. It's a testament to the passion, desire and commitment of Flames ownership to Calgary because it hasn't been easy and the delays over the years you know between costs of construction and interest rate has made the project much more expensive but Flames ownership is hung in there the city's been great under the new mayor and council and you know assuming the election goes the right way at the provincial level this should be a done deal that'll be great. What you always played your part in talking about things with Mayor Mandel and Edmonton. How much discussion did you have in Calgary any? Yeah I did actually the last time I was there I had a meeting with the mayor and the council person who was responsible for the file on behalf of the city council. Very constructive and enthusiastic. Didn't mean that you could just snap your fingers and create a situation but everybody including the province worked very hard to make this a reality and the province doesn't have a deal with the club. The province is working with the city on some infrastructure which they have to do anyway. So this is another situation where you can use the opportunity for infrastructure to help something really positive happen to community and listen there's no doubt that the saddle dome is past its useful life. There has to be a new building there because that one you know isn't going to last forever. We are also well aware though of the rivalry between Calgary and Edmonton. A rivalry that is well beyond the ice it pertains to everything. Everything. Yeah exactly. So Edmonton has a spectacular arena. Would you not think that Calgary would want to build at least something that is comparable? I didn't build this first-class state of the art arena. What's interesting though, Edmonton has a big interest in having Calgary get a new state of the art arena. Why would I say that? When it comes to other shows particularly concerts, eight calories not getting any now to speak of because of the state of the arena but a lot of acts are skipping Alberta because they're not going to just go to Edmonton. But Edmonton and Calgary they're more likely to come. So in terms of making these arenas work and providing fans of music or family shows or what have you an opportunity to participate in those things having the second arena is actually important. I can only imagine that because having lived in Alberta for 15 years if you built a big auditorium in Calgary you had to build a big auditorium in Edmonton. You built a hospital in Calgary you built one in Edmonton. But Rogers Place wasn't built with provincial money. I don't know what infrastructure was done. Actually this project isn't being built with provincial money. There are infrastructure things but that's between the city and the province. The club has nothing to do with dealing with the province. With Gary Bettman the Commissioner of the National Hockey League we're halfway done. We have to take a break. We'll do that and be back right after this. We are with Gary Bettman. In the program today we have spent the first half of the program talking a lot of off ice issues, business issues. I want to get to the ice a little bit. Round one of the playoffs saw the disappearance of the Rangers and the Bruins to high profile franchises. And Los Angeles. And Los Angeles. Good franchises in big cities. If I were you I wouldn't be that happy about it. How do you feel? First of all I don't root one way or the other. I didn't say you did. But economically. You know what? It's about the hockey and the hockey was spectacular. The games we had won five game series, four six game series and three seven game series. We played 50 games. We had come from behind victories. We had unpredictability. It was exciting. It was entertaining. And as you look at the beginning of the second round, how about last night's game? Absolutely incredible between Edmonton and Vegas. And how about the fact that we had two nights in a row with players scoring four calls being on the losing team. It's about the hockey. Everything else flows from that. And some years you get big markets, some years you won't. And it all leave it out over time because if you have great hockey it engages your fans. And that's what I focus on. You think you get a better crowd with great hockey than you do with great franchises? You're talking TV audience Bob? Sure. Bob, I think over time it changes. I think it's important that no matter who you root for, you have hope that your team can make playoffs and ultimately win the Stanley Cup. Some years that'll be big market clubs. Some years it'll be clubs that are not from big markets. And by the way, you use the term great franchises. You have 32 great franchise. It just happens to be... I know you think that, yes. I do. I do. I've always believed that. And you know what? Geography is an interesting thing. It is what it is. As long as the hockey is good and compelling, that to me is more important than which franchises are playing. Well I'm guessing you can't wake up in the morning and pray for a Toronto Edmonton final. Can you? It'll be what it'll be. As long as if they both get there and the hockey's been great, terrific. That would be a great series. Well in Canada it would be a great series. And by the way, Bob is promoting what would it be in the state. You know what? It's interesting because both TNT, Warner Brothers Discovery Turner and ESPN, more than our prior US media partners have been showing more Canadian games. Right. And emphasizing our stars, such as Conor McDade, such as us and Matthews. And those games actually have been drawing well in terms of viewership because not to repeat myself, but I will. It's about the hockey. Yeah. And officiating, where are you with, and I know I've heard the speech, I'm sorry, we'd have great officials and we do have great officials. But there are times that there have been inconsistencies this year. You know what? There's a human element to the game. They're more consistent than they get credit for. They were instructed again before the playoffs started to maintain the standard. We don't look for a change. Obviously the style of play changes, which impacts how you see the game. But our officials, you know, and replay more often than not shows them being right. Yeah. To the extent we're using replay, it's helped us correct instances that need to be corrected. I think our officiating is really good. And no matter who you root for, you're going to hate the officiating. There isn't a call against your team that's right, and every time players on the ice from your team, there was a call that's missed. I get that. It's part of the passion of the game. But we look at it. We be me. Hockey operations, the officiating department, clinically, we're tracking every call and non-call in every game. And our officials do a great job. But the humans, and guess what? They don't get to see in real time from their angles along the ice everything we get to see with the benefit of 16 cameras slow, more replays. But when you even taking that into account, they are overwhelmingly right, making good calls and non-call. By the way, go ahead, Bob. Right. That isn't really the issue as far as I'm concerned. As you know, the three of us are all of a certain age where we can remember what the playoffs were like in the National Hockey League a long time ago. And you cannot deny that what used to happen is officials essentially put their whistles away when they got to the playoffs. There were very few penalty calls. You got away with a lot more than you do now. And I'm not against the new philosophy. I don't mind the officiating, right or wrong. How many penalty have you seen in the last five minutes or the third period or an overtime? You've seen penalties. You've seen penalties. You never got that. You never got that before. You never got that. I do now. I like it. I don't mind it either. Not call, you know, let them play. You know, if somebody is bear hugging a player with the puck who might have a scoring chance, which is taken away because you've interfered with him, that's not letting them play as much as calling a penalty. Right. In fact, I think if you go back over the last 10 years, we've actually on average called more penalties in the playoffs than we did in the regular season. In order to allow the players who have skill and speed to use their speed and skill, you have to call the calls that need to be made. We agree. Neutralizing skill. Yeah. So why didn't you do that 30 years ago? He was just starting. He was just starting. No, life is evolutionary. It's never, there's an ebb and flow and human element to the game. It's not like turning up light switch on and off. It was like getting people to adjust. And if you look at how the game is evolved, that's why and it's been an evolution. We're in this shape that we're in now. Well, you know what, when we've had this discussion on this show, Gary, because we're now seeing in 2023 the residue of the rule changes that you guys made in 2005, it's taken that long. Well, it's that coupled with the system because the reason we were able to open up the game and get rid of clutching and grabbing and hooking and holding another name for neutralizing skill was because all teams could feel they were competitive. Right. You had teams that had $20 million perils and a dearth of superstars and you had other teams with perils four or five times that with five or six whole of thammers skating at the same time, the only way the teams could compete was to neutralize skill, the dead puck era. The combination of giving everybody an opportunity to compete, half plus revenue sharing, coupled with the rule changes that we put in has led to this evolution. And when you look at the stars of the game today who, you know, weren't playing hockey, maybe not even born, when all of this was going on, they came up in a hockey world at the lower levels where speed and skill is what was emphasized as opposed to, you know, clutching and grabbing and hooking and holding. Yeah. I actually have a theory, I think you might be using too much video now. Do you ever get a sense of that? No, I think video is good because it gives you insight. I came so fast. That video is great in terms of the replay we use. I think the players like to use it to see what happened. Coaches use it. And it's also good for fans because to the extent the game newer fans in particular, if you need a little help getting into the game, understanding it, video helps you do that. Yeah. Quick thought, Jacob Tuba hit Timo Meyer pretty heavily under the rules that are enlisted right now, right in the rule book. It's not a penalty. But there was contact to the head. How concerning are you with that type of hit? You know, that way, you know, 15 years ago, people would have said that was a great discussion, but if you talk about things changing in evolution, you know what, it was a legal head. Do I love the hit? No, but the fact of the matter is if you're going to eliminate all head contact under any circumstance, then you're taking hitting out of the game. And that's not something we want to do. And so it's something we look at, we study, but completely eliminating head contact is not something that's easily done, but it's something we continue to focus on. So yeah, and just agenda wise discussion competition committee, will it get brought up? Yeah, I mean, we discuss everything. And that, and again, that was a legal hit, but it's one that a lot of people didn't love. But again, eliminating that hit, if you look at what the unintended consequences would be, you would probably, unless somebody can come up with something that they haven't so far, probably would be reducing the physicality of our game. And nobody's looking to make our game less physical. A couple of years ago, the NBA decided to go with this play internment to allow a couple more teams to have a playoff experience. However brief, I'm quite sure you've watched that with interest. Does it intrigue you? I can't tell you why they're doing what they're doing. I believe that our regular season is incredible, leading to a great first round and one flows from the other. Four days before the end of the regular season, we didn't know seven to the eight match ups. We had incredible races. And I think it goes without saying, for virtually all the battle of our teams, every game of the regular season matters in terms of the points in making the playoffs. What we have is working very well for us. And as I said, it leads to what is the best first round in any playoff anywhere in terms of the competitiveness. And so maybe the NBA didn't feel that way. Maybe they felt they needed something. I can't speak to them. We like what we have and we think it works well. Well, quite honestly, this season you had the benefit of having, I think, 11 teams that were basically equal during the regular season. Well, the Bruins were the outlier, weren't they? They were. And I think that fact was born out in the results in the first round. Yeah. The number of what are viewed as upsets really weren't that upsetting because the team that lost wasn't all that much better in the regular season than the team that won. Although, the Boston would be the outlier. Well, of course. But when you look at it, I mean, it's. Yeah, but again, people seem to be the commentary about the first round has been sensational. I'm not sure why we need. I believe in making change if it makes sense, but I also don't feel the need to fix a problem that doesn't exist. Right. How much discussion about the schedule these days and what's going to happen? And we're going to see more regional rivalries? The problem with it is with 32 teams. And what we hear is that every from fans and from our teams, every team needs to be in every building at least once. And if you do the math backwards, it's hard. You know, unless you're going to add games to the schedule, you got to get them from somewhere. And as long as we have the wild card system, you really can change the balance between the two divisions in the conference. So the answer is, you know, in an ideal world, you might do something different. But what we have now is working well. Well, not everybody thinks it's working well. You understand that there are there are plenty of teams out there who would like to seem more games during the regular season against their rivals because that's what's been taken off. What go to Calgary and the Livingston play three times three times Rangers, Rangers Islanders, I think it was only three times. But OK, and so let's assume we have less conference play between the two conferences. However, the teams in Western Canada, I'm going to feel about not seeing Montreal and Toronto. I mean, none of this is discrete. Everything relates to everything else. And if you put one string, you got another string that comes out. And so in terms of about one of the things that we needed to do better is not bunch the games. Rangers and Islanders, I think, played too many games over the three in October, November. It should have been spread out more. And that's something that maybe would some extent mitigate people's feelings. There are a few teams without executives now. There's around the league, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia near the top of that list. I'm sure there's going to be a couple more. And there's two people out there that have have pretty strong resumes that right now can't work in the National Hockey League. And those are Stan Bowman and Joel Quynville. What's the process? And we had heard that Joel was working with Kim Davis, I believe. What's the process to allow both Bowman and Quynville to work in the National Hockey League again? At the appropriate time, there will need to be some discussion about where things have been and where things are and whether or not it's appropriate to return. But that's not something that I'm comfortable getting into right now. But that would be in theory a discussion between you and them and the operative team, I would assume. Well, there are no operative teams because they're not eligible to engage with the team right now. So they can't even negotiate? So if I was the president of Comcast, I couldn't phone Joel and ask him to come in for an interview? Okay, I didn't know that. That's a good one. All right. My last one for me is a notice that the Golden Knights today announced their new TV partner, which is an over the air TV partner in scripts similar to what Phoenix has done, similar to what Phoenix has done in the NBA. What is that? Yeah, but what is that going to do? What's the future of regional television? I guess in more than the United States than in Canada. What's the future of regional television? Right now it's in flux. Obviously the Bally's, Diamond Sinclair regionals are having issues and the old AT&T regionals, which are now owned by Time Warner Discovery. Warner Brothers Discovery are going out of that business and there's need to be adjustment. There'll be some evolution into streaming. It may be, as I said, back to the future with Albany Air. First and foremost, we want to make sure that the games are available to our fans. And the business model is going to have to be adjusted over time to reflect the changing circumstances coming from core cutting. The most interesting thing about the core cutting on the regionals, while maybe the number of households getting regionals are down about a third, viewership has maintained a constant level. So people who wanted nor watching are continuing to watch. The issue is going to be what's the right economic model going forward. And you may see a move to more games national. You may see a move, as I said, to some over the year locally, or you may see more streaming. But that's going to evolve. Both Rob Manfred and Matt of Silver have talked about the change in blackout rules. The NHL has done a magnificent job with its blackout rules. Can you see them changing? I think depending on how many games go national. I mean, if you have to remember the history of blackouts comes from the exclusivity that the regional sports network's demanded. Right. As the regionals disappear, there may be things we need to do to encourage a new model moving forward. One more for me that I know of. And it's a thing that I've been on for a long period of time. I'm sure I talked to you about it. I'm a big fan of a World Cup tournament. And it has been a long time, Gary. And we have heard mumbo jumbo from the league about what the plan is, what the thought is. And in the midst of all this, you've got the Russian situation, which creates a big problem, I would assume. You probably don't want to have, would rather not have a World Cup without the Russians involved. And I would understand that. So where are you? I apologize if you think you were getting mumbo jumbo going back a few years, but we can't unilaterally, we wouldn't unilaterally do a World Cup. It's something that we do as partners with the players association. And there's been a change in leadership. And so I think as Marty Walsh gets more familiar with the job, we'll have an opportunity to have some other issues focus on the World Cup. I'm with you. I'd like a World Cup. I think hockey best on best could be the best. And the Russian situation with Ukraine is a complicating factor. And so, yeah, we'd like, we agree. We'd like to see a World Cup, but hey, we've got to get the PA on board, which we're working on, logistically. And we're going to have to see what happens in the World situation. We've got the double IHF, I think, has banned Russia. We have to see what the IOC is going to do to the Olympics. We have to see whether or not our own players would be comfortable playing without some segment of the player population being eligible. And then you have to see if there are federations who would refuse to participate. The Russians were involved. So it's... Sure, of course I understand it's complicated. It's complicated. But I share here if you would like to bring the World Cup back on a regular basis, but the Vents have conspired against that, at least in recent history. The Federation ran the World Juniors without the Russians. Can you run a World Cup without the Russians? Well, it depends on what players want. You know, our players are very protective of each other. I'm not sure that our own players would want to participate in the World Cup where some element of their group couldn't play. Right. And for me, the... The second final one. I know, I know, I just... So it's a charge. I know, but you've been very giving with your time and I thought we better use it to our best. So the issues about the LGBTQ community and warm-up sweaters and what's going to happen next year? You know, I don't think anybody can question the support at the league level in our clubs of the LGBTQ community and that support will continue. I think the issue of the sweaters are not became a distraction and that's something we're going to look at in the off-season, but we're going to continue to have nights which raise consciousness and are supportive. But you know, I think the whole issue of the sweaters got thrown out of proportion and it was a recurring story from the time there was a different city doing it. And I think it became a distraction to the good work that has been done at the club and at the league level, which is why I want to look at what makes sense moving forward. Can you see actually mandating that you can't use warm-up sweaters for marketing opportunities? I wouldn't rule in or out anything. Listen, we hope you feel better. Thank you. By the way, 30 years since you gave out your first cup is 30 years this year. So you gave the Montreal, it was the last time a Canadian team won the Stanley Cup 30 years ago. 1993 at the old forum with Los Angeles Kings. I remember it like it was yesterday. Really? Yeah. Listen, feel better and thank you very much for joining us again. We greatly appreciate it. You know that. Always good to be with you guys. Thank you for having me. That's Gary Betman. We'll come back after this message. When was the last time everyone agreed on what's for dinner? You want Chinese food, they want pizza, and someone is always craving froyo. Well, there's something for everyone on DoorDash. Ordering is easy. Open up the DoorDash app, choose what you want from where you want, and your items will be left safely outside your door with our default contactless delivery setting. 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But you know, he's the commissioner of 32 teams, not three. I get it. And so you can't say, man, I really wish the way not. Yes, you can. You can be honest. No, you can't. You can be honest and say, look, you're the commissioner of the Florida Panthers as well as you are the Boston Bruins. So what? You know, Florida Panthers know that they aren't the, they aren't the draw that the New York Rangers are the Boston Bruins, but the LA Kings are. If you ever got hired, know that. If you got hired as the commissioner of the National Hockey League and you said that people are not as stupid as you think they are, John. It's not, it's not for the people. It's for the owners. I don't care. Then I could care less about that. Well, no, even if you're the commissioner, even if I'm the commissioner and this commissioner tells the owners what's right and what's wrong, what's, what's up and what's down, you know that. Mr. Bevin has done a good job of hurting the cats at the border governors. That's for sure. You're not wrong. No, I don't. The one thing I would say is I just like a little more honesty sometimes. No, I don't think he's dishonest. I think that he's, he's very good at deflecting. The one thing I think that you can, you don't even have to read between the lines is when we talked about the Ottawa situation is that like Snoop Dogg did an interview with the athletic yesterday. And Ryan Reynolds is quoted and Ryan Reynolds marched in, you know, was going to do an offer for a billion dollars. Gary does not leak this stuff. This stuff does not get out. So it's being transmitted by these groups to the media. This will drive him crazy. Well, why? I mean, he's not negative on celebrity involvement. He doesn't have it. No, but he believes in the process. He believes in making sure that it is done fairly and equitably. And what he doesn't want to do because right now you're in the midst of what finding one of seven guys to be on the board of governors. You've got to make sure that one of those guys gets treated as fairly as the other because the other part of it. But the other part of this Bob is that if they, if they don't own the Ottawa senators, one of those groups that doesn't own the senators could be owning a team five years from now somewhere else on the continent. It's possible, but not likely. Oh, no, I, I think that there are. This is not these groups do not want an NHL team. They want an NHL team in Ottawa. But what they want as I tried to say, listen to yourself and then a gel team in downtown Ottawa with all the infrastructure around it. Listen to your cell maker money. You actually, you actually said that people actually want to buy a team in Ottawa two years ago. You would have told me you were that was crazy. So would Eugene Melnikov? I know. May I just, I can't imagine what Eugene's thinking right now. Well if Eugene was with us and he put this team up for sale. That's the issue I wonder. I wonder how he'd be reacting to all this. Wow. He'd be enjoying the limelight for a while, but maybe, but I wonder if he, I wonder, you know, I think what he really wanted, what Eugene really wanted was to keep the team, but do the downtown deal himself. Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right. The fascination for me though is I think Gary would like everything as he said button down. Let's get the deal done. And then we'll have a big party and announce it and just celebrate one guy, not giving everybody into the sun the chance to talk for 15 seconds. Well truth of the matter is I could care less who buys the Ottawa Senators really has a why is this not you? Well, I have no info. You know, I could care less. Why would I, why would I care? Because we might need a guest. Well, we, then we might need a new producer. If that's the only guest we can get. I can't get them. Tell you that right now. All right, we got to get out of here. Have a good weekend. You too. We'll see you on Monday. Goodbye everybody. Bye.