What The Heck Is Wrong With The Toronto Blue Jays??? With John Gibbons.

This is the Bob McAllen Podcast. Download the Bet Rivers. This is the Bob McAllen Podcast, brought to you by Bet Rivers. Download the Bet Rivers Sportsbook app today. Richard Dyches, been a great week. Richard, lots of different varieties, lots of different storylines. We've been all, you know, we're not going to get a crisis this week of too much hockey and we're not, we're not going to get any crisis too much hockey. Great guest to end the week on. Great guest to end the week on, on a week that the Toronto Blue Jays have laid a giant, giant egg. Four straight losses to the Texas Rangers, outscored 35 to nine over those. Gladby Guerrero, not doing what he's supposed to be doing. The pitching that was supposed to be their cornerstone has fallen short. What better time to bring on the former manager of the Toronto Blue Jays? The great John Gibbons. Richard and I'll be back with Gimme after this. This is the McAllen Podcast. Hi, this is Bob McAllen for betrivers.com. Hey, if you're looking for a sports book or casino app, you should check out the Bet Rivers Sports and Casino app today. Play all of your favorite casino games for real money anywhere and anytime. Plus get in the action with each sports game with hundreds of sports betting options and get ready to feel like a VIP because you'll earn both loyalty level points and bonus store points on every real money wager you make. You must be 19 plus available in Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 or speak to an advisor free of charge betrivers.com. Welcome back to the McAllen Podcast for the end of the week. Richard in for Bob all week. It's been a good week. Richard, so we thought we'd end it on a high note. Our old pal, by the way, Richard, have you ever been on, have you ever been on tour with a rock band? Honestly, have you ever been on a tour with a rock band? Yeah, in 1992, I went around with Devon and Pearl Jam. No, John, I've never been. Well, I'll tell you what, I neither of my, but I traveled with John Gibbons last week to Western Canada ended up, we started Edmonton, ended up in Lloyd Minster, right on the border between Alberta and Saskatchewan, and it was like traveling with a rock star. It was unbelievable. How are you, rock star? That is such BS. I tell you what, the real, the real star of the show is John, you know, don't go there. There's no doubt about it. At least you dress like the rock star. Wow, you dress like a roadie. You dress like a guy in Lloyd Minster. You fit in. I was, I was the, I was the typical Eastern bastard sitting there with my shirt and tie on, and there's, you know, there's Gibbons with his Canadian tuxedo on, fitting right in. That's right, man, you're a city slicker. We had a great time though. Wasn't it fantastic? Those people are so good. And here's the thing where you learn, and I'm sure it's the same in the United States, but those people know their sports. Don't they? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you know, well, first off, they're going to buy us out there and pay some money to come in with us in a small little town. You know, you know, you know, they're in tune with something, right? They've already harvested their crops or whatever, but yeah, I tell you what, Johnny, it's just I've always loved the people out west, you know, they're down to earth, good hard working people. And yeah, so I've been out there two or three times this year and love it. Yeah, that's fantastic. Okay. The news of the day has to be what the heck has gone on with the Toronto Blue Jays. Been outscored in four games now. I think my number, I have it at 35 to nine. And the Texas Rangers who, you know, the closest team to your hometown, your hometown right now, we thought they were dead, buried out. And all of a sudden, it's the Jays on the outside looking. Yeah, go figure. You know, you know, you could, you could have realistically looked at it and said, you know, if they, both teams are good enough, you split, you know, you're, you're satisfied with that, right? But the, I think it was shocked. Everybody's Texas was coming off a terrible two, three weeks, right? And they were worse bullpened in the league. Probably if you, if you looked at it, the way they've been pitching in the straight was the Blue Jays pitching staff, right? And they came in. They, they hit him around like it was nothing. And, you know, it, that, I don't think nobody saw that coming, obviously, you know, the, the scary part of all this, though, is there, they're still in this thing. And it's been a streaky year for everybody. You know, it's been, you know, look at Seattle, they had a great month of August and they went on a 10 game road trip and stuck it up, you know, Rangers were like the one of top teams for the first part of the season and they hit that skid, right? When they lost some pitching and things. And I, I just looked at the team that they're closest to the Blue Jays close to Seattle. Seattle's got the Dodgers for three night. Then they get, then they, then they go to Oakland who's been kind of a nemesis for everybody lately. Then they got, they still got seven left with Texas and they got three left with Houston. And I guarantee you they're not going to win all those, right? So, but the Blue Jays have to win, obviously, right? That's the key. But this is far from over, right? You know, as much as people think you're a homer or, you know, too optimistic, it really isn't. John, you know, one of the things that when you were coming out and thinking about this, and you can obviously relate to this as somebody managed at the highest level, you watch the NBA, right? And Kevin Durant or LeBron may have one bad night. They might have a night off for Steph Curry, pick your star. But generally speaking, they don't have four bad nights in a row. And that's the crazy thing about baseball. In that, like, I watch, like, Vladie or Bo or Kevin Gossman, and like, these are obviously the best of the best. And they, they look terrible for four days in a row. What is it about? Like, how did, you know, like, how does that happen in just in terms of like all of a sudden, it just snaps and the team can go into a collective funk where in other sports, Patrick Mahomes doesn't have four bad games in really. You might have one game. It makes baseball fascinating, but it makes it frustrating too. Yeah. Oh, yeah, it really does. You know, the, probably the key to all that is they play every, play it every day, right? So you watch it every day. And, you know, in the different characters you're talking about there, different, different performers, you know. Yeah, I just think that what shocked everybody was so lopsided. But, you know, based, you can, is a hitter, you can go into those funks. And I mean, it could be a week-long funk. And you may not get a hit, right? You may have some bad luck. You may just, you're timing, maybe off that. I mean, that's, that's a part of it. I don't even the greatest have those. And if it's tied into a four game series. Now, the problem with it all is when they pay you a lot of money and you've earned things in the past, you set that bar. They, everybody looks and expects the top dogs on your team to rise to the occasion because that's what the true champions do, right? You know, you talk about LeBron, whoever it might be, Mahomes or, you know, in big games or when things are on the line, they step up, you know, the, the Gretzky's, you know, John's, John's boy there. You know, I mean, that's, that's what happens, right? That's, that's, that's how these guys become legendary. And so when you're top guys, you know, in this case, Bladi and Bo struggled, everything's magnified because that's kind of who, even though they're young guys, they've, they've done enough in the game that everybody looks to them. And if they don't come through, you know, that's, that's usually what happens. When do they stop being young guys? We know it's funny. He was, when you look at, you know, these guys now have been professional baseball players for, it's not a cup of coffee. They've been a professional baseball players for quite a long time now. Well, no, they stop becoming young guys when they get to be our age, right? Well, you know, those are, that's called pensioners. We're called pensioners. Yeah, you know what? I saw something the other day, Bladi Jr. is still younger than, you know, all those three, that Schneider and those guy Horowitz, those guys they brought up in the money, he's still younger. And that's kind of, so yeah, that's no, you know, I can, I always go back to, you know, Bladi's got to great start and set that bar high. But you look at guys, too, you look at like guys like Batista who I had, Donaldson and Karnasio, the main guy, they were, they were late bloopers, you know, they, but you know, Bladi both showed so much early on that you kind of expect it in the, but the true eventual Hall of Famers, you know, they, they start out young, they take the game by storm and they never look back usually. John, so let me ask you this because like, it's one thing to sort of play like sports talk radio and just yap about it, but you're actually we're in a clubhouse. So you can, you literally are a guy as the expertise here. There's a lot of, you know, relatively speaking, relatively speaking. We're all, we're all day to day on expertise. So one of the things that, that Blue Jays fans have talked about this year is that not only was the like Gureo, Maraño, Bar Show deal, sort of not a good deal in terms of performance, but when you add to Oscar Hernandez, it changed the chemistry of and like what was coming out of like sort of Blue Jays was they wanted, this is sort of my paraphrase, they wanted like a more quote unquote professional clubhouse, right? Professional clubhouse to come in. But now I feel like I can make the counter argument that like maybe like what gave that group sort of like a lot of oomph last year were these guys like Gureo and Teo who made everything fun and like we're always sort of upbeat in the dugout. I get that's easy for me to say on a four game losing streak, but like how, I don't know, like how much of that is like real in terms of like the chemistry of a clubhouse, particularly when you're going through a stretch like they're going through now, when you kind of need somebody to step up and be like, at this, we're going to win today. Yeah, you know, that's, you know, there's been talk about that all season about, you know, you lost X amount of offense, right? And then Marino, you know, up and come catcher in a year that you're starving to score some runs, it really stands out. But I think to your part, you're talking about like the home run jacket, things like that, too. I love that. Oh, you did. I hate it. I know. All school guys hated it. I know, I know. No, no, no, I just, no, I just had a problem with you, you're down 10 to 1 and everybody celebrating around you like, hey, boys, let's go. Let's take this a little more serious. You know, there's people paying a lot of money to come here and a lot of money on that. That's all. But I am a little bit older, right? You know, it, you're talking about one of that great team last year that lost first two games of the world. I know, but I mean, you know, I'm right in that last game off as a fluke, but I get it. It's a performance business and the end of the day. No, I got you. Now, if they, if the, if the blue jays do not get in this year, then you can really make that argument. If they, if they get in, which I still think they're going to, it's, I guess it's all how you look at it. What wins usually in the end, when it comes to playoff time and everything is pitching and defense, because you know, runs are at a premium. Everybody steps up their game. If that's the case, the blue jays are in good shape, even though this was, this was an aberration, these four games as far as what happened to their pitches have. That's just it. They're too good. I think you don't think they have the best pitch in the league. So, but that'll be the test. If they can get in, I think they have a chance to do more damage than they did last year. You know, it's, even, I'm talking about, they could advance, you know, depending on, you know, who they're playing, obviously. And it's been such a streaky season. You look at all the teams in there, right? You need to go back and you look at, you used in the other day, lost two or three Oakland. They came in, you know, after everybody was talking about, well, the Oakland A's, you should beat them. Yeah, you should, but it doesn't happen. That worked that way, you know, and then Texas lost two out of three and open. Those kind of, it gets tough to win when you have to win. Yeah. But they're, but it's definitely, the whole game is different. There's no doubt it's more of a circus. And so some of that was taken away. I don't mind that at all, but a lot of people do. And maybe it affected them a little bit. I don't know, but, hey, I'll stick by that any day. You know, at least get a better look at Jacket. At least do it in the dugout. Don't come out on the field at home plate and give a Jacket. It's like, there used to be a thing called respect in, in sports and in the world. No, he wouldn't wear a country just, I think this country I can speak with such, such a, going down the tubes, there's no respect for anything. Right? Yeah, it's fine. Because let's, don't, by the way, Richard, nobody knows how to stir up a crowd better than Gibbons, but he just throws out a couple of darts, you know, a couple of darts. This is, uh, this is big. Finally, two Americans on a podcast, verse one. I'm very excited. So do you, do you see, I mean, it's funny because I wouldn't got my wife a, a dinner of fish and chips the other night and I'm talking to the, the, the guy cook in the fish for me and he says, you know what? I just wish they brought the home run Jacket back because it was fun. Thank you. And it's exactly what he said, Richard, he said, it's fun. And, and they seem to have more fun. There doesn't seem to be very much joy in mudville these days. And so it leads you to ask the question, how much fun should the game be, or is it a hardcore business? Well, I don't know, I think I had a lot of those home run celebration, those kind of celebrations hockey, do they do that all the time? Um, well, let's tell you what, there's, there's, there's, first of all, if you had a good team, you get to hug the guy after every goal on the ice, you know, and it's, it's, it's, it's, and, and, and every, every once in a while, there's, you know, the hot dog and the, the thing about Bay, the thing about hockey, other than every once in a while when the pitcher gets bad and throws the ball up that, which, you know, the major league baseball, major league baseball has thrown out of the game. They don't want that. They don't want that, that conflict. The other team could, by the bench, though, and do the high five on every goal. Oh, sure. Oh, yeah. And, and, and, and you know, what that is. So now that's wrote. Now that's what I have to do that. I got to go high five the goalie at the other end of the ice. Well, no, you can, and you can do all the high five and all. It's, I just, I just think, you know, when you, this, yeah, it brings out the trident and the things like that. You know, I, I just, I guess I just, I always view professional sports at the highest level, the more serious, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, well, how can we, how can we, or the San Diego Padres, you know, the team most probably the biggest underachieving, the guy hits home run, they get everybody in the grand, they, they get a camera out and they take a picture. The game's going on, you know, they're losing by five, six runs, you know, it's like, I don't know, maybe, maybe, maybe that's what's missing for the Blue Jay's at home run. You were the manager, you were the manager of the team that had the player that hit a home run that galvanized the whole concept of the bat flip. Right. The world has, the world has changed since Jose Bautista's bat flip. Everybody bat flips now and nobody says a word. Well, yeah, exactly. But back then, I mean, it caused Jose, you know, because there was a little battle going on that following year. But that was an isolated thing. That was 23 years of frustration. That was a non-playoff frustration. And it wasn't, he wasn't flipping it all the time. Jose got thrown at all the time, you know, because he, a lot of people considered him a hot dog, you know, nothing, nothing in comparison to nowadays. But, you know, I tell you what, you know, I hope they, I hope they bring it back these next two weeks, if it gets them over the top. John, do you think, in all seriousness, because it's actually kind of an interesting discussion. Do you think that some of this is generational in terms of today's, you know, 22, 23 year old? I'm not, I'm not using Vladimbo because the, the certain, I don't want to use individuals, but, you know, they're brought up in a social media age. They're, they're brought up in a world where they chronicle everything online. And I think it's just, like, just maybe just how they professional athletes sort of just approached this, because of just how they were raised in the generation, the year they raised, and they're just different. They're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're just, they just, they approach things differently, I think, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, there's no doubt about it. You know, and I'm not, I'm not dead. I'm not saying it's criminal behavior or anything like that. Obviously, I, maybe it's, maybe if you have a little better judgment, you know, when you're not losing by 10 runs, you know, that's, that's, that's maybe it because, you know, uh, you know, professional sport means it means a lot up there. It means that it's everything to the whole country, right? And, and so, you know, you kind of, I always kind of got, when I viewed it, you know, that, hey, let's go, well, this will be a little more serious, right? We're getting, we're getting our ass kicked right here, right? You know, there's a lot of, you got a lot of fans out there want to maybe think, they're thinking if we were a little more serious, maybe we would play better, you know, but I, I understand it too in, in, you know, yeah, I didn't mean to interrupt you. I was going to say to John's point, John, the other John, like, John Gibbons is totally right in that anytime professional athletes are laughing and joking when they're getting beat bad, the narrative the next day is these guys don't care enough, right? Like, they're not serious. So in some ways pro athletes can't win because they're every single time the cameras on them, the viewer and fan at home is making a, a judgment that's either a real judgment or just a judgment based on a momentary snapshot of a camera on them. Hey, well, Vlad, did you hear after every wind still dumps the ice water on some of the guy, right? So maybe it's the magic jacket that's missing. I want to ask you, when you were a manager or even a coach and you thought the guys were too flippant into the dugout or even into the bullpen, would you walk down to them and say, hey, guys, get your head out of your grass. We're losing. You know what? I don't, I don't think I ever had a problem with that. You know, I, the, the, the players I had wouldn't go and talk to the guys or they, they already knew. Yeah, I don't, I think they would know better. You know, then, hey, you know what? But if there's any time there was something I didn't agree with or didn't like or whatever, whether something going on the field or what we were doing something, I would always address it because if you don't, you know, you got problems, man, then things get out of control, right? And I think that's your job also. But yeah, you know, but usually what happens, the, you know, I kind of sense they got rid of that jacket because there was some older players on the team that thought it was a little big. That was my sense. I don't know that for a fact. But usually your old veteran players or the guys, they, they police their own, you know, these young kids and all that. And I don't know. It's a, I guess I would hope that's not the reason they don't get in for crying out loud. What? If you are, if you're a, if you're a John Schneider, like, what can you do? I mean, do you, I guess you obviously can control the lineup. You got to pick your spot. Obviously, when I talk to it, it's probably from just basically reading all the time, like calling meetings left and right doesn't necessarily solve the issue. Do you just, the one thing I appreciate about Schneider, and I know he's getting crushed right now is the guy is remain flatline calm. You don't see him in press ever, like, loses cool for the most part. He keeps saying we're a good team. Like it, if nothing else, like he, I feel like he's publicly doing the right thing. But what can he do to try to turn this thing around? You know, probably, and probably not much, you know, and that's, and I say that not being in the clubhouse, and though, you know, what the, you know, the, the buy, I guess you could say is, yeah, you know, I think with frustrates fans, though, when managers, coaches, or whatever, you know, when they, you hear this about Aaron Boone and the Yankees all the time, you know, they're struggling. They're, they're going nowhere. He paints his positive picture, you know, and I say, I think sometimes you can get, you can get carried away with that. You know, you gotta be, hey, this is, this is reality right here. You don't, you don't, you don't kill your guys because then you're, you're done anyway, right? But, but, you know, try to pull it over the fan base either. You know, I say, hey, you know, sometimes you guys say, we stink, we stink. And I always used to say, and it wasn't, I mean, it was reality. I said, listen, in the end, if we're good enough, we'll be there. If we're not, we won't. It's that simple, right? But as far as that, because I, I thought I saw something the other day when, when they had a meeting before that last game yesterday, or something. And I always hated meetings. I never, you know, unless it was something out of control, something really bad, you know, because I have found, you know, they're just like my kids, you know, the more you talk, the less they listen, right? And, and so, and, and I've been, I've been on a playing end of it. And I've sat there and guys, you can, you can tell when a manager or coach starts panicking, right? They come and they want to have a meeting to see if we're folk, whatever. Tell us everything's all right. Boys, we got to do this. And the players got to roll their eyes and go, come on, man. And, and I've also had managers that say, hey, hey, guys, give me a couple of runs tonight. I'll figure out a way to win, win this thing, right? So, a lot, and so, so they think they're the smartest guy, or they're the reason they're winning or they're, or they're, or they're panic and try to cover their own ass. And some people, and players ignore that. They, because everybody in that room, they're the players know the magnitude of those games and, and nobody's loafing that, you know, they're, they're in a rut, you know, and they'll come out of it. Hopefully it's not too late. But sometimes the more, the, the, the more you talk, the less they listen, it loses its effect and they, and sometimes they turn on you, you know, and say, they go, oh, here we go again, you know, another meeting, great. What do we need another one that last one didn't work or what, you know, one of those deals. 147 games into the regular season. Now, 147. It's one, it's one of the amazing things about this sport more so than any other. I mean, the NBA and the NHL play 82, the NFL's a 17 game season with over 19 weeks. But at 147 games, how worn down are the players physically and how worn down are they mentally? Extremely, both, you know, they, you know, it is a long grind, you know, it's not, it's not as physically demanding as the other sports, but it's more of a mental grind. But your, but your bodies beat up, especially in the older you get, you know, I say, the only days you really feel good in the season is like, the first day you go to spring trainer or opening day, and then the last game of the year, if you're going home, whatever, that's when your body's, you know, otherwise, you know, it does take its toll on you, but it's not as physically demanding, let's say. But it's the mental end of it, especially now they're under the gun, you know, they're, they're, they're, you know, the, the best players in the game aren't always the most talented, but they're the guys that can control this and have, you know, their mind, right? Right? Right. And, but even those guys, you know, they feel the heat, they put the pressure, they go through the ups and downs and doubts. So that's, that's, that's, but now you're putting on the, the, you know, the Atlanta Braves aren't dealing with that now because they just, they clings, right? But the teams that are trying to get in there and there's times running out, they're feeling that heat the other day and they're feeling it, well, look, look at the Blue Jays case, they're feeling it from their fan base too, you know, it's not like just, just themselves. But yeah, they're, they're worn out, even the bad teams are worn out, even that aren't going anywhere because it does take its toll on you every day. Well, I mean, if you're not in the, you know, if you're playing for the Kansas City Royals and you're 147 games in, I mean, these days have to be really hard. You know, the routine of going to the stadium, the routine of travel, I mean, the mental anguish of knowing that they've won 46 games this year, 46. They've lost 101 times, but that's different than when you know that a team is in a playoff hunt and, and how do, how do you push the body? How do you push the mind to, to try to do it every day? We, you know, Jays have a three game series against Boston coming and yet it's, oh my god, look what we're coming through. We're not very good. We haven't been good the last 10 games really. So how do the players push through it? And, and what can any of the coaches or the managers say to get them over the hump or is it just, you know, you got to let them do what they do? Yeah, well, when you were speaking of the Kansas City Royals, it motivates those guys is the first in the 15th, you know, that payday. They're not working for minimum wage. It's, it's not podcast money, but, you know, it's, you know, it's, John, really, if you need to self-motivate at this, at this time of the year, what's at stake? You know, something, something's wrong, you know, but I will say this, you know, I think players mimic their manager in a lot of ways, his emotions, and they, they look to see how that guy's reacting in the corner of the dugout. If he's panicking or he's like, you know, he's pulling his hair out. I do think it's important, though, for a manager, even tough, tough times like this right now, you got to fight for your guys, man, there may be a time, and it's not, not, not a phony thing. You may need to go out there and tear an up higher up, right? Not, not because just this thing to do. If he, if he screws up a call or something, to just let these guys know you got their back. I mean, it's not, you don't put on a show in a phony thing, but there, you get, sometimes you got to let off your steam, you know, you got to let, in the, but, you know, the, even that, even that's changed, even that's changed when you consider that lots of the times now the young players are not making the final decision. Oh yeah, no, exactly. New York, New York, New York's making the decision. I mean, there's no, we, we, we can't have Earl Weaver. We're on the dugout, put his head on backwards and go and toe-to-toe with John McSherry, you know what I mean? No, you're right. It can't happen anymore. Even if they overrule you on the insta-replay, whether you can argue to get thrown at anyway, because, you know, I used to say those guys, who the hell is up there in the, in the, reviewing these in New York, man, because they're covering for somebody down here on the field, because there's no way, you know, you see it on the board. Just somebody's covering for somebody down here, man. That's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, where with, uh, where with John Gibbons, that's Richard Dites, I'm John Shannon, McCall and podcast, back after this. Former Blue J manager, two times John Gibbons is with us on this Friday, Richard Dites as well. Hey, John, who, you talk about what a manager is, who was, who was the best, would you like to play for more than any other manager? Was there one guy that jumped out of you? Well, you know what, in the big leagues, the only guy I ever played for was, uh, David Johnson, in the, I really like David, you know, David, David was kind of ahead of the game, you know, he was kind of a, you know, he was like in this somewhat analytics before, you know, analytics got went crazy, right? But he was, uh, he let you do your job. He wasn't, he wasn't, he wasn't talking all the time. He wasn't vocal. He said, you know, you got a job to do. He, he trusted you, right? And, um, so, and he, of course, his, he was confidence as could be, and he took, you know, he took over the met in, in the 84 and then, you know, when everything turned around over there, just, just confidence dripping off the guy and in a smart guy. Uh, so he was the best that I ever played for it in the, in the big leagues. You know, I was, I was forward to coming up through the minors, especially back then, you know, he had all different type of guys, right? You had the hardliners and you had the, you know, the kind of the new age guys was starting to come onto the scene. Um, but he was, he was, he was definitely the top guy. He won everywhere. He went, you know, so, yeah. I want, I want to ask about the Blue Jace front office before that, just because you brought up David Johnson and that team, obviously, you know, I grew up in New York, uh, right off New York City. And so that, okay. Um, you caught white good and, right? At, at his prime, essentially, everybody knows the white story in terms of what happened to him and issues with drugs and stuff. But, but I have to say this, and I'm sure part of it is just like, what stays with you as a kid, like stays with you. I've never seen a guy like with that, when he first came into the league, I have never seen a picture with that kind of stuff. Like, like, my dad would say, like, it was like co-facts, basically, like, when co-facts came into league. What, what was he like at 19 or 20 before any of the issues and stuff like that? I mean, did anything, does anything compared to how he was when when you caught him because watching him from afar, it was like a comment, basically. Oh, yeah, you know, by far the best guy I ever caught, you know, and I caught some good ones. It's, it's, it's funny. First of all, I never saw this coming with the off-field problems. I wouldn't have ever expected that in Dwight. You know, okay, because he always said he, he would do anything for you. He seemed to have it all together. You know, it was strawberry. You know, you could, it's just, it was a little volatile, at least, you know, and so maybe okay. But anyway, but I can remember in spring training, our first spring training that Dwight's first spring training, you know, he grew up in Tampa across a bit. We'd St. Petersburg, Florida. You know, we used to stay in this little motel right on Tampa Bay. So everybody's parked the cars right outside these like the little huts in the group of us are sitting out there one day in this, this souped up Camaro drives up, right? The guy gets out and you see the license, he goes in wherever and the license plate says, Dr. K, and we all go, yeah, okay, he's this asshole, right? Come on, dude, you kid me, right? So the next day, you know, we're in the spring training of the workout. You know, I was a catcher. You see him throw off the matty going, oh, that's Dr. K, right there, right? And then, uh, but you know what? Oh, there was, there was nobody like him, but you know, an interesting story. A lot of people don't know when he was in A ball. This was 83. He was in Litzberg, Virginia in the, in the Carolina League. First part of the year, he was just, he was just so so, right? In the, in the story we all got from one of our, uh, John Company, one of our favorite pitching coaches. One day, he went out to the mall because he, the white was just kind of a, you know, good and bad, good man. And he, he told him to white on the mound. I was talking to the catcher who was there and said, listen, he said, son, it's time for you to shit or get off the potty going back down to, you're going down to the lower level, right? And he took off, man, and it actually, you know, and this is A ball. He strikes out over 300 guys, you know, he, uh, I don't know, he might have won 19 games or something. So then, then he goes up a triple A at the end of the year. And then of course next, in 84, he made the team in the rest of his history. So, but, but, you know, he was on the verge of even going down, because he was just kind, the talent was there, but he just kind of sputtered along, right? And, and I don't know whether that, what kind of jolt that gave it, but he got him focused or something, but he kicked it in and there was no looking back, you know, um, but it was, uh, but sometimes, you know, we even talk, somebody was talking to me the other day about Manoa, right? You know, but when I said, well, good was going to use an A ball, he was going to go from high A to low A, right? Back then, you didn't think twice about that, right? If you're not producing or we think it's going to do some good, you know, to earn it or whatever you do it, you know? And then, you know, you see what's happened with Manoa, he's going, goes down to triple A, he never goes, and doesn't pinch. He's pissed off or whatever. It's like, you know, and then there's there, you know, there's, it's a T, it's teamwork to decide what's best for this kid. Sometimes he's got he's saying, the kid, this is where it's going to be until you get the hammer and you're a free agent or whatever, we're calling the shots, you know? And, uh, and sometimes I think I think we sue things over too much and try to do the psychological side of that, you know, just, um, anyway, in it, in it, in it's a hurtness. How, um, in any sense of the Manoa situation, how do you brought him up? I mean, what the, what are they going to do? Yeah, I don't know. I, you know, I was, I, you know, a first, nobody really knew, I don't think anybody outside of that room, they've done a great job of keeping it a secret, right? They've done a great job of keeping it a secret. You know, you get sent down and you never show up, you know, that, you know, uh, they used to have, uh, suspended, they used to bump off suspensions, things like that. My only, my only thing was, maybe he was banged up and he was hiding it, you know, he was hurting and then his agent got involved and said, you know what? You can't go, they can't send you down, because you know, it's costing you service time, money, all that, all that stuff, right? That matters because it's so big nowadays. But, um, maybe he was trying to, he was trying to pitch through some pain or something and he finally said, yeah, I'm not going down. I've been sucking up. That's my guess. But then, you know, they, but I don't know, I don't, I don't know if that's accurate at all, either though. By the way, Richard, Richard, by the way, just, just, to get our factory, our crack research staff. Yeah. The Metz drafted in the first round one year. And I know I'll be corrected by, in one year of the first round, strawberry, Billy Bean, John Gibbons. Am I right? That's it. One of them, one of them had a great career. The other one became a front office guy. The other became a coach. So I, I don't know if that, I don't know if break cashing was the GM back then. I don't know if he considered that a successor. What? I don't know. That's the three successful dudes. That's a good job. What, John, I mean, just based on the expectations of this team, if the Blue Jays do not make the playoffs, like, should Ross Akins worry about his job? Is it that kind of failure? You know, one thing about the Blue Jays, I will say, they've been pretty consistent in terms of stability, you know, in like the top positions. Yeah, you know, that's hard to say. You never know. I mean, I don't think anybody, even though the Red Sox was struggling, anybody thought that it was going to happen to high bloom yesterday. Yeah, that was the point. Yeah, even, even, but, you know, I always kind of viewed the Red Sox last couple years as turning into a small market team. And that wasn't going to last, right? As far as what would happen with, you know, Ross, you know, I don't know. I don't know who make that call. You know, Mark's a pirate who brought him in. They're very tight, you know, and they've, you know, and he's got control of that place, right? But sports is volatile. And I guess a lot of it depends on the uproar and the fan base, right? That's usually a big part of it too. So, you know, who knows? You know, you hate to see anybody get fired, but when you take those jobs where the managers, coaches, or front office, whatever, you know, you know, those got to be results sooner or later, not just getting there. You know, if you get there every year, sooner or later, they expect more, right? And then in the end, somebody, somebody takes a fall, you know, that's just the way it is. But that's why they pay you a lot of money. Yeah, one has John. I want to ask you on a question, John. Is it just weird to take a job knowing that you're going to be fired at one point? Like, nobody could take an accounting job, like, right? And like, I know in three years, man, when like the tax laws changes, I'm gone. Like, but a manager knows, like, the second you go in, at some point, you're getting fired because no one lasts for it. Or maybe, or maybe twice. Or maybe twice. Exactly. Well, I've been fired more times than that. I just did a different position. So, that happens a lot to me. Maybe I'm not what I think I am. No, you know, yeah, that's, you know, to get the opportunity, you know, if you don't have a good playing career, and you get into the coaching end of it, not everybody, but most guys want to shot a manager, right? And so when you get those opportunities, you know, you live with it, try to make the most out of it. And you see a lot of guys get these jobs on teams that are going nowhere. So, you know, it's, it, that's really a dead end in two or three years because people are going to be frustrated. And that guy, they say, well, they can't do anything with this crappy team. Well, we're right. Yeah, you just, you just roll the dice and it just hope, you know, it works out. But you know, one thing, if, unless you get your head in the sand, you're not going to win without talent. That's for sure. You know, there might be a couple teams every year that overachieve, a couple that underachieve, but everybody finds their level. And if you don't, if the other guy's Frank Howard, remember Big Frank Howard? Yeah. Sure. One of my favorite guys, everybody's favorite guy. He told me the story one time, spring training when he was coach in the Metz. He says, he said, they said, son, he said, listen, he goes, he said, you look over, uh, you look over the other dugout. You see five cannons. He goes, you looking at our dugout. You see two cannons. He goes, son, you made win a battle. You ain't winning the war. You know, that was, that was Frank Howard's analytics right there. And he was so right, you know, which is a joke. I heard, listen to this. Now you got me going back to my time as a kid. World's largest baseball player. When Frank Howard was playing, I remember for the Washington Senators. That's how long ago it was. I remember him for the Washington Senators. And he was, he and Boob power, right? Were the two biggest players of the his, they were massive players. And nobody, well, he may as well as a big guy. You know, Roberto Clemente was a big guy, but Frank Howard and Boob power were giants. Oh, yeah. If I think Frank was a big basketball player college too. You know, obviously, I can remember that I got somebody good. Everybody's got Frank Howard stories, but the same spring training like, you know, because I was a AAA manager and he was on the coach's staff or as a ballman. One of those, anyway, I can remember walking through the spring training, the club asked at the end of the day and they used to have this, the son are kind of out in the locker room, right? And he coaches all hanging around. So I saw his going down to the training room to get something, right? And all of a sudden, I'm walking by where that son was and the door flies open. Big Frank comes out. All he's got on is the jackstrap, right? He's got, he's got about these 50, 60 pound dumbbells, right? He's coming out. He's sweating bullets. He's in there. He's in there doing curls and stuff in a sauna, right? And he says, son, son, you know, it's a call, son, I need you to hold my feet. Come with me, right? So go to the train room. He he hops on the he hops on the training table. He lays down. He said, hold my feet, you know, he's sweating bullets and I was holding his feet and he's doing it. He's been for the jackstrap. Yo, yeah, he grabs his dumbbells. He goes back into the sauna. Doesn't get us in. I'm out of here, man. I'm not coming through till he leaves. But the hardest one of the hardest work is one of the one of the best people you ever want to meet if you haven't met him. He, uh, yeah. I mean, he's a legendary, like Don Zimmer, kind of a legendary. Yeah. Exactly. And I feel like, you know, it's interesting. Like, uh, the game, they missed that figure. You know, like, uh, in some ways, like, you know, maddenly is kind of like a wise old sage for John Schneider, but there's not really, unless I'm missing it. There's not like a Frank Howard or Don Zimmer, like Jim Leland, like, these guys don't really hang out in the club outside. Maybe that's just part of life is changed, but that was one thing about baseball. I love was like the old dude, like, who would be around who, like, could link, let's say, like, uh, Jackie Robinson to like a cheer. You know what I mean? Yeah, Richard, Richard, for me, it was Bobby Wiggles. How many teams did, how many teams did Bobby Wiggles was he the third base coach for? And I mean, Bobby Wiggles, he was recycled before they had plastic. I mean, it was, but that was, that was baseball, though, wasn't it? Yeah. You know what, John, it's interesting that like hockey has Scotty Bowling, you know, or had Scotty Bowling when he was around, is there a baseball equivalent of that guy? I don't think not now, right? That guy doesn't exist. No, well, Don Zimmer, but it's, I don't know if it exists past. Well, it would have been, it would have been Yogi, you know, Yogi. It would have been Yogi. He won nine, but when we were talking about, uh, that's he won. How many, how many cups of these bomb that Scotty Scotty? I think Scotty has 11 rings. That's, I got to richer the story. I told you the other night, because, you know, I, the first time I ever met Scotty Bowling, we were playing down in Tampa, right? And I think he lived down down the road there. That's right. So he came out to the game and I met him and we're taking a baddie practice in the, uh, stand around the cage, and I'm just picking his brain. We're having a good time. So finally, he says, hey, I got, I got to get out of here. He goes, good luck. Uh, when, when that thing or something like that, and I said, yes, he's got it. Well, when this one, I only have like six more to catch here. So he goes, nah, like 10 more. He makes sure I knew exactly what he didn't play. I wouldn't worry. But, but that one, you know, it's funny to say that because there's a real, there's a real hockey baseball equation, because all those guys, like Scotty Bowling, they play hockey in the winter and baseball on the summer. And, and, and great athletes are great athletes. And it doesn't matter what sport. And competitors are competitors too. I think I need to lose guys. I mean, never play any sport against a guy who is a professional athlete because he will want to win no matter what it is, whether it's Tidley Winks or racquetball or golf or the sport that they're great at. That, competitive level. I played racquetball one night. I played racquetball one day with, with a years ago, when I actually could move quicker than I do now. With a guy who was a 50 gold score in the NHL, he spotted me 20 points. When you had to go to 21 to win, he spotted me 20 points. And I'm running around the racquetball court all afternoon. And this guy's sticking his leg out, he's elbowing me, he's getting in my way. He's still, he's still winning. There's no question in his mind. That, that's the difference between you and me and, and Gibbons Richard, is the competitive level of professional athletes. And the killer instinct, you have to have to play the game. Hey, that's, that's, well, that's how you are on the golf course. I hear it. I know, I know, I know. Don't go. You know, you get that famous story from the 1984, no, no, no, I'm sorry, 1992 Olympics. The dream team, where Jordan played, Michael Jordan played Christian Layton and like ping pong and Layton or beat, Layton or was like a 21 year old. I'm, Jordan, not like it. Like he literally couldn't let it go until he eventually beat him. I might have taken him like 20 games, but you're, they're just certain guys who are built differently. Yeah. Yeah. Literally a ping pong game Jordan could not let go until the eventually being. That's, that's a great, you know, when we talk about Scotty, you know, to, to win that many cups in different capacity, obviously, but it's like, you know, and how many guys he's never get one, you know, or, and that's the ultimate dream. And he's got that many. It's like, yeah, you know, it's like nothing to it, boys. After spending three days, the great thing about giving is, and this is one of the things that it nears him to everybody that's around him. He asked more questions about me and hockey than I asked him about baseball. We had a great time talking. Oh, yeah. Then he plays, then he plays the, then he plays the game that, yeah, I don't know, they go with hockey. And then he's, he's asking me all these questions all the time. Oh, yeah. I love the sport. I love the toughness about it. Now, the day they start wearing those jackets at the goal jacket or maybe the goalie starts putting on a sport coat dirty game that I probably won't like it as much, even though I don't understand it completely. John, I know you're with the Antonio guy. So, well, you got to be happy about web and yama, right? Sky looks like he's going to, if he stays healthy, guy, let's say, you can be a game changer. Well, they tagged it last year just to get this opportunity, you know, it's great, great, great management. Oh, yeah, you know what, you know what's funny when, uh, what year was it? I don't remember what year, my second go around there in Toronto. So, Pirate had taken over in Atkins. And Mark, Mark is, was good friends with, uh, the president of the Spurs down here. Oh, RC Beautiful. Yeah, beautiful. Yeah, exactly. So they said, we're going to go down and get together with their, their front office and coach and whatever. And, um, you know, I lived here. So, so Atkins, Pirate, Tony LeCoffe, another guy in the front office, myself and one other guy came down. We saw Spurs game. And the next day we went over to their, their practice facility with their office was, right? And so they brought in a bunch of guys, uh, pop-a-bits never showed, you know, so I, okay, anyway, but anyway, Buford's his dad, he's talking about, you know, and, and, you know, I grew up here and you hear about the Spurs, the Spurs way this or that. But Buford came right out and said, listen, he goes, I guess pop-a-bits was on the block. Anyway, he almost got fired one year and then something happened. But of course, then he says, if we don't end up with David Robinson and Timmy Duncan, he says, we're all gone. He goes, that, we have no secret here. That was our secret, right? And, and uh, but everybody thinks, oh, well, they did, well, you know, they do a great job with foreign players. That's for sure, you know, or, uh, probably in those park or in those guys. But so when, when you see them, they were tanking last year just to get this opportunity, because even pop-a-bits said, when Duncan retires, I'm out of here, right? They're paying him too much money, right? He ain't going anywhere. So they got what they wanted. We know the odds, you know, we're against it, but they got what they wanted to be interesting to see how they, but they do run a great system. There's no question about that. But especially in that sport, where one guy can dominate. So, you know, I mean, you've got to have surrounding pieces. Baseball, let's say like a hitter may get four bats in a game. Five, maybe. I'm not good enough, right? So he's not dictating like that guy will or like my homes is touching the ball every, you know, or, or, uh, McDavid knows guys, you know? Yeah. Now it's a great, it's, he drops, and he drops in his little hockey knowledge, and he called McDavid. And they're like, speaking of pop-a-vitch, John Gibbons may know this. Pop-a-vitch is famous for being one of the best tippers of any professional sports person ever. Like, there's a story. He doesn't like people to sort of know this, but you sometimes get these stories from like servers or waiters where they'll come out and be like, Greg Pop-vitch left me like a $5,000 tip. It's like, it's pretty famous like within the restaurant world. Uh, he likes fine dining for sure. He's a big one. He likes his wine. Yeah. But that guy is like very, very famous for like crazy tips. Well, the one that we're injured when you're, when you're making 10 million at least in here. Oh, I'm drunk. As a coach. Right. If I'm making 10 million dollars, I'm going to Tim Horton's and giving the person a thousand bucks. Yeah, I think he might be tipping a little load making that one. Yeah, good plan. There you go. Good point. I'm surprised he's not in politics now. He loves politics. He likes getting involved. I wish he didn't, but he does. That's Richard. John Gibbons. Don't go away, boys. We've got a special guest coming up. I tell you what, you guys just talk about yourself. Go ahead. No, go ahead, John. Don't be sitting. Again. Uh, you know, you're, you've been sitting out, you're sitting waiting to get on here and Gibbons and telling us his philosophy of life, Bob. So it's been pretty good. Well, come back to me. Hey, they were ready to run me out back there. I mean, I'm like, you know, everybody wants to be back. What's it? Hey, not everybody. I do. Anyway, Bob, I appreciate that, pal. We'll get back to the basics, huh? Man, oh, man, this team is playing like shit. Yeah, they just got hit between the eyes. Well, I mean, I know this kind of thing can happen, but all year long, this team has not hit in key situations. And the manager doesn't seem to be doing anything about it. Well, he made, he said, well, you know what? The front office runs everything now. I can know, you know, well, I fired the GM right now. Well, two weeks later, he got, well, he had two good corner-outfielders who could hit. Bob, you were getting rid of Teosker's six minds. Well, I know that. I was wrong. No, John. Hold on. Hold on. This, this, you didn't have a stroke. This is a, this is an epiphany. This is the story of Bob. Those are words I've never heard out of McAllen's mouth before. I was wrong. Oh, my God. I would have gone two of them. Hey, you must love that home run jacket, huh? What's your master's jacket? Oh, screw that. I'm going to my grave loving that jacket on. Oh, God. Well, he's the hit a couple of home runs when they had the jacket. No, you're right. Maybe. Maybe now. Hey, Richard's a typical New Yorker. Oh, man, they like all that fancy crap. That's true. That's so true. I know. How are the Yankees doing? How's the meds doing? No, listen. Oh, long, long year for for both. Yeah. Too bad. Hey, how's the, how's Aaron Rodgers doing? Ouch. Or the Jets. Let's say. Yeah, Aaron Rodgers is a tourist. He's not a real New York. This is a tourist season for him. Well, yeah. They got his watch out of him as they could. For the jet. If you think the blue jays are cursed, trust me. You want a real curse? The Jets are curse. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Names legend lives on. That's it. We are doing it right now. We're doing this right now. We're off there. What's this? It's too late. We're almost finished. Oh dear. Yeah. Yeah. John Gibbons that you know what? If you would have warned the fur coat like name it as a manager, you would be a, that's a life. Oh, no, because it was it's in a hockey country man. Yeah, we ain't getting away with that. The only guy that can get us, the only thing, the only guy that can wear a fur coat like that was Macau in the first year when he was a PA and now it's an exhibition stage. I know. Yeah, Phil Roofoff from me 50 bucks to borrow it. You wore a fur coat? Yeah. It was snow on man. Are you kidding? Well, you could have put a park on it. Yeah. So Phil Roof reaches into his back pocket. He's fully, he's in the uniform. reaches into his back pocket and pulls a wall out of the snake. Okay. Like a snake. Takes a wall out in the field. I don't know anybody. But Phil Roof did. Pull 50 US out of his wall and set here. Let me your coat. Because he has a snip in the bullpen. That was freezing. Oh, that's a good old days. Yeah, it was. Oh, shoot. Well, you look good man. It's so good. Well, I feel, I feel a little bit better. You know, it's slow. Really slow. Yeah. Yeah. But they expect that. That's right. That's what they suspect. I guess, you know, you make progress at the beginning pretty quickly. But then this thing's gone. It becomes really slow. So I'm frustrated. But I do what I can. You know, do my exercise every day. Yeah. Here's the dilemma. John, here's the dilemma. You know, the better Bob gets, the more criticism I get. So this is, this is not a win-win for me, you know. All right. It's a good punishment. It's like being a manager and major league baseball. Exactly. Exactly. Oh, it is not. It has nothing to do with that. Like nothing like that. Givens, you were great. You didn't do a damn thing. He's just exactly. He just sat there and looked beautiful, you know. Is it that the way you supposed to be? I think so. You know, you had some success. So this guy hasn't been successful. He's got a $200 million payroll and they can't beat anybody. Oh, they are 13 games above 500. This team should be in first place. Well, we asked Ross. They've got Richard asked John. Yeah. If they don't make the playoffs, what kind of changes are going to happen in the front office? What do you think? Fire the GM. Start over. You're not firing. But what about Shapiro? Uh, I don't think he hasn't. He can do with it really. I think he mostly is worried about the stadium. But maybe, maybe he'll do. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, it'd be interesting to see what happens. The GM made the moves as far as I know. And I don't get any of them. Hey, they may, they may win the next 10 games. Get hot like Atlanta did two years ago. I know. I know. And then I'll change my mind. And then they'll go, they'll go. And by the way, we have been saying, we have been saying that phrase since opening day in the end of March, they may get on a hot street. We have been waiting all season. And they haven't got on a hot street. They haven't, they're pitching even even the pitching has been bad the last week or so. Yeah, that's the shocking part. That is really surprising. Yeah, the pitch. He was great all year. Yeah, he still couldn't win in many games as they should have. But the pitching now was not so hot. All right, it's going to win it all, Bob. Who's going to win it all? You know, I can't tell you, I'm really impressed by this Baltimore team. Yeah, they're young, but you know, I think they're the best right now and certainly in the American League. What do they got? They did their clothes or no, man. He's got that elbow issue. Everybody needs something, you know. But I really like, I really like them. I like their offense too. Listen to Texas offense. I know they play like crap for three weeks, but this Texas offense looked really good, didn't it? Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, plus they got the Bochi factor too. Boach going to help them in the, yeah. And the wire, you know, I know. After we talked about Bochi last week, John, I watched Bruce. I went to the game. I didn't know that I watched Bruce quite closely. He does a good job of doing nothing too. Yeah, and that was it. I once heard, or I read where, was it named Buddy Bell, where Buddy Bell was managing it? Who was he managing the Royals or something? He made the, he made the comment that he says, one of these days, I want to manage a team that I don't have to coach so much. Yeah, exactly. This is a big leagues, man. Just go get them boys. Yeah. That's the whole idea, right? Well, yeah. The days taught me the sort of on the bench going crazy every day. Those days are over. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. We've had enough fun for a week. Okay. Thank you, Robert. I love you, Bobby. Great seeing you. Love you. See you next day. Stay strong, man. Bye-bye. That's Bob a Cowan. He's Richard Dijson, Gibbons. Thanks for a great week, boys. And have a great weekend. This is the McCown podcast.