Is This The End Of The Core Four? | May 8, 2023

8 Days ago on the other side of the state, we were briefly given reason to believe that this was a different version of the Maple Leafs. Oops. That is the lead in Chris Johnston's latest for North Star Bets, a scathing column about the Toronto Maple Leafs who are down 3-0 in their opening round series against the Florida Panthers. It is worth your time to read, he pulls no punches, and I'll just be frank, and we could get into this, you're basically saying this series is over. Well, I mean, I don't know how much time you have for history, but this series basically is over. And I will gladly eat my words of like anyone would in this situation if somehow the Leafs pull off the improbable, but they're not the 2014 LA Kings who had won a Stanley Cup and who were up against a team with San Jose, who they, you know, I think they had some root in the Sharks' minds at that time. They're not, you know, whatever the 1942 Maple Leafs or the 70, whatever Islanders, you know, with no disrespect to those teams, I mean, this is, this is just a massive opportunity to let slip through their hands here. And, you know, the one thing Sheldon Keefe said on Monday that really stood out to me is, he's like, this is difficult to understand. And it actually is, like, if you peel back the numbers, it has never happened that Austin Matthews, Mitch Marner, William Neelander, and John Tavares have played three consecutive games for the Maple Leafs and one of them didn't score a goal until this series. It had never happened. You actually have to go back to November 2021 to find an instance when it happened in back-to-back games, let alone three in a row. I mean, the reason Leafs are losing this series is because they're not scoring enough. And the players the program is built around have not produced yet again in a big moment. And, you know, it's just hard to give anyone any benefit of the doubt at this stage of the cycle of the team, of those individuals. And I say this with huge respect, you know, I'm sitting here in the Panthers arena, they've obviously gone on a great heater to get into the playoffs, to begin with, to knock off the Boston Bruins. I mean, they're full value. They've gotten their game together at the right time of the year to have this kind of run. But look, whenever the Leafs are going to have a playoff run of their own, you're going to come up against great teams. I mean, that's just a reality. You have to find your way through great teams. And they have just punted away an opportunity here in the second round. And look, I get it. We've got to cover these next games. Maybe they win game four. You know, I'm going home anyway. Maybe Friday night, I'm going to have something to do and I have to go down to Coach Bank Arena for game five. Maybe they win game five and Saturday morning, you know, I'm flying right back down here. But it's just hard to imagine them winning four straight games. And I recognize what you're doing here. If I ask him the question, Julian, there is, there is a chance, of course. However, small it is that I will look foolish or that, that column that I filed last night or even this, this pod and probably Thursday's pod won't age well. But I mean, at a certain point, you're going based on what you have seen over years and years and years. And, you know, there's just no benefit of the doubt to be granted here. And I don't see how the Leafs get out of this, honestly. And I think that this should be, along with some other, I mean, this will be, this will be one of those ones whenever those players are in their retirement days, I think, are going to have to think a little twice about just the fact that they weren't able to make this more of a series that they had leads in games two and three and didn't find a way to get the job done. That, you know, their abilities are, you know, abandoned them on the biggest moment. And I know that this is only round two, but we know what the stakes are for this team. And that's why I started the column and the way I did. Eight days ago, it did feel different, right? They'd managed to win three games in Tampa in round one against a three-time Stanley Cup finalist. They'd won all three games in that series in overtime. They've really looked like they weren't, they were never shooting themselves in the foot in that series. I mean, say what you will. They had to play taken to them for stretches, of course. But they were playing smart and safe and they were letting those talented guys who all learned praise, you know, break through in that round. I mean, they all had big, big offensive outputs, big moments, scored some big goals. And they get to round two. And it's nowhere to be found. And I suspect we're going to be talking about the Leafs break down day before we know it. My favorite part of the article, you kind of allude to that fact when you discuss the fact that they seemed like a team that had found a way to finally get over that first round hump and then get to the second round. There's a line in the article where after they go through all these first three games and they're just left with the same thousand yard stairs and empty cliches, what more was there to be said? How do you find perspective when you're trapped in a hall of mirrors? I mean, it's one thing for the players to have to say the same things over and over about why didn't they get the job done? Why are they in this position again? Like, as someone who has been around the team as close as you have, like, I said, like, you're obviously not a fan of the team, but there's like a frustration in hearing some of those same quotes and tropes over and over again from you and the rest of the press court too. Well, it's not a frustration you might think it is though. It's more, you know, we've been looking at this problem and describing it and writing about it in my case, talking about it for years, and the frustration comes from the fact that it just brings you back to the same place. Like, you don't have a new reason to explain why this year is different from last year, is different from 2021 and 2020 and 2019. I mean, ultimately, I think you have to conclude at a certain point that they just don't have the right mix. And that is not an attack on these players. I have no doubt if any of them end up being shipped to a new team next year, we will be writing stories and talking about how, you know, player X, I'm not even going to say who it is because I don't know what's going to happen. But player X look at how he's fit in and the Leafs were crazy, let him go. I mean, this is what happens, right? I mean, who's been great for the Panthers in the series? Matthew Kachuk, Sam Bennett, Sam Reinhart scores in overtime winner. Those are all high draft picks from other organizations that had to find their way to Florida through a variety of different circumstances for each of them, and they're now thriving here. I mean, this is what happens in pro sports. I just think we're reaching the end with this experiment that the Leafs have basically banked an arrow on with these players at the center of it, right? I mean, the whole point, and let's not re-litigate everything because I think everyone is probably at the same point here, but I mean, I think we have to underline it. The entire point of paying for top forwards with the Leafs or paying them is the idea you get into a playoff series, and of course, one or more of them will get shut down at a given moment or go cold or be maybe battling an injury or what have you. But the idea is that you have enough to get through, that either you're going to be able to be an overwhelming matchup one way or another for the opponent or those players collectively are going to pull you through. I mean, that's, look at Colorado's run, right? Nachushkin scored huge goals. McKinnon was on fire early in the series. Nazim Kaderie comes back and scores in overtime in the Stanley Cup final after having a broken hand. You know, McCar put up big numbers. You know, we've seen it with Point and Kucharov, Stamkos, Hedman. You throw Vasilevsky into Tampa's mix. You know, with those Pittsburgh cups, you had the three lines the one year, right? It was Crosby and Melk and on separate lines, but also Phil Kessel leading a third line, and that was productive for Pittsburgh. I mean, you don't win with one star player or one individual pulling you through. You need a team and the guys the Leafs are built around have not correctly been able to do that. Again, it's not to say they've been awful in every game or anything like that. You know, I think Austin Matthews in particular, he's only gone one game these playoffs where he was held without a point. It happened to be Game 3 last night's game here in Florida, but you know, he's, and he's had some big moments. I think Mitch Marner is struggle. You know, for me, Marner is a guy that really hasn't got it going. You know, he's now played seven games in a row without a goal. He's got one assist in the last four. You know, John Taveras hasn't had a point since scoring the overtime winner against Tampa. Kneelander's actually a guy that had a cooking a little bit the last two games. He made a play on one of the goals in Game 3. You know, we saw him in Game 2, go nuts in the third period. I mean, he's had some moments, but added all together, it's not been near enough. And it's not been near enough for this team. And I think as much as you do get some good stories in the playoffs and unlikely heroes might step up on a given night, I mean, the Leafs aren't built in a way that, you know, their bottom six is carrying them to multiple victories in a series or that Ilya Sampsonov, who's now an injured, is going to steal you at three games. I mean, it's just, it's not, it's not the way they're constructed. They're constructed where these guys make the difference. And as a group together, they haven't been able to make the difference in Toronto. As I say, I do think we're at the point, major change is the only option. I don't know what it's going to be, but there's no justification. There's no, you can twist yourself in a pretzel trying to talk yourself into why you might do something. I mean, you're, you're, they're at the end here. And I think that there is some finality to this. You know, I saw Steve Dangle say that in his LFR video actually, like, like one of the things is with them losing in this manner. You, you, you, it's not budu anymore, right? It's not like, oh, the hockey gods conspired against them. I mean, in a second round playoff series, they had home ice advantage. They're playing a team that finished 19 points behind them in the regular season. You've seen the heavyweights knocked out. You knocked one of them out yourself. Tampa's gone. Boston's already gone home. Colorado's gone home on the other side of the bracket. I mean, we've talked about what a wide open path there is for someone to get hot to seize the moment to elevate their game to go and grab this thing. And in that moment, the Toronto Maple Leafs weren't good enough to get the job done. And it's the same group of players that have been through multiple series. And I just don't see any way that we're not talking about significant change this offseason for this team. That might be removing one of those players. You know, we still have to see what's going to happen with Kyle Dubas and general manager Sheldon Keefe, the head coach, maybe even president, Brendan Shanahan. I mean, I don't know how deep this goes, but I, I do think you get to this moment and they just aren't good enough. And it's really quite simple, right? Because the whole bet here, you know, one thing I've heard Kyle Dubas say repeatedly is that he just feels like you give this group enough opportunities eventually it's going to fall into place. I don't even know that that was an unreasonable thing for him to believe, quite honestly. I mean, and so my point is I'm not coming at him with hindsight, but what I am going to say is you see enough of the story and it's the same thing and it's especially game three. I mean, it's basically a no show by that group of players. Again, it's not like every moment in the game was bad. Matthew sits up post like there are ways it could have been better, but it was not enough. They were not overwhelming enough. They didn't take over the game. And it, you know, and you look at the other series too, right, Julian? Like you've got Jack Hughes, a young player. He comes out, he's got a goal and a assist in the first five minutes. You know, they went back to New Jersey. They needed a response on home ice against Carolina. Who drove that response? The best players in the devil's who's getting the job done for the Oilers? And I know that their power play is just otherworldly and that's where some of that production is coming from. You know, the Leafs have just played a game where they didn't have a power play opportunity in game three at all. But still Leon Drys said, okay, David, are just filling the score sheet. I'm not saying that any or all the Leafs should have 13 goals through two rounds as Drysidal does. I mean, I recognize sometimes there's something even special beyond greatness, but you know, the Leafs guys aren't getting it done. And so I don't know what's going to happen in these next couple of games, but to me, anything less than them somehow be writing their own history story here. We're still looking at change for the organization and rather significant change because, you know, I know that they've turned over the bottom of the roster a lot in Toronto, but they've never touched kind of these central figures, at least until now. Let's table some of that conversation for the day if it happens where the Leafs are eliminated because they are still alive. And there are some people who still believe they could somehow be the 15 in an HLS to come back with three or deficit. And again, I didn't bring up the article for a little thing here. I didn't bring up just to make you look like an idiot for anything like that for future clips or all that. It was a very direct article. And I'm with you too. I think the Leafs are probably going to lose this series with the way that it's looking. I'm not making a prediction. No, I'm not saying that. I'm writing in the moment like you cannot have a bigger game for an entire like the whole organization is on trial in that game three, right? And the Leafs have what? I mean, Paul Maris said it was five two on ones in the first seven minutes. They had a couple of two on ones in the first few minutes. They still come out of the first period with four shots on that. Four shots in a game that matters this much. Okay, look, I get it. Details are important. No one wants to make a mistake. They have a lead in the game. They have a lead in the game, though, at least. They give up that lead. Do you know what? They go back and get it. Then they give it up again. And look, it's a bad bounce that goes off of Verhaggy's butt. But still, I just feel like you just can't lose. You have to find a way to win those games. Like I know that that's on a deep level of analysis. But sometimes you get to this stage of the season. We can be that reductive, right? It can be that simple. Like your star players have to find you a way to win a game with their season on the line, with really their era to some degree on the line. I mean, I'm not predicting. They're all gone and everything changes next year. But no, there will be some level of change, of course, unless they pull off, unless they pull off the miracle, unless somehow we're talking before a game seven. That's the only time I'm willing to even back off slightly on this stance is if they can get it to a game seven, which feels like a long way off. But look, other teams have done it. You win one, you win one, you win one, you try to win one more. But obviously, the Leafs aren't winning anything unless some of those players put the puck in the net. It's not on Sam Lafferty and Eric Gustafson and Nola Chari and David Camp to score the biggest goals of this playoff run. It's got to be Matthews, Marner, Tavares or Nielander. I forgot the question I was going to ask. I'm just going to jump to this. What's it like from your vantage point, seeing a fan base that a little over a week ago was as high as they've been in almost 20 years over a series win compared to the present day where Dred has firmly set in? And it seems like all the good will from that first round series is gone. Well, it is gone. It should be gone. Right? I mean, look, I get, being a fan is to be emotional. So you ride the ups and the downs with your team. But the Leafs fans have been through this so much that this is a familiar state for them. Like, I'm sure Steve Dangle and Adam Wild, and all our buddies at the SDPN that root on the Leafs quite openly, I'm sure they woke up on Monday morning and they're like, ah, this is that familiar feeling again. You know, the feeling they maybe weren't used to is the one from eight or nine days before where they had some hope and all of a sudden it feels like things are breaking your way. And so, yeah, that's what it is. You know, I'm sitting here in Florida. Do you know what I'm thought of? The Panthers won the president's trophy last year. Beat Washington out the first round, then they got swept in like a five or six day series, not just because they had back to back games and that series against Tampa. Their season was over. And someone was probably sitting at this very press conference table that I'm sitting at right now trying to explain how that happened and what it meant. And it must have felt pretty damn hollow. Like the president's trophy didn't mean too much when they were done after four games and round two. I think that's where the Leafs would be at. If they're swept or even if they're losing five, I mean, look, there's definitely some pride in not getting swept. I think you have to, if you're on the Toronto side of the ledger here and none of the fans are going to want to hear it, even people with the microphones might not want to hear it. But, you know, they have to try to not have this be a sweep. They have to focus on getting it back to the home and hoping something changes and hope that the pressure shifts the Florida. I mean, like, that's that's all you can have when you're facing these circumstances. But if they just lose now, you're right. Like, it does take some of the shine off of first round win. That was a hard fought series and was a long time coming. It was a great moment. We gave them the flowers for it. It really was it was a cool thing to see. And I know that a lot of fans out there had suffered for a while. But do you know what else Florida did last year? Florida fired the head coach, traded away some star players, made a bold decision with Matthew Kuchak. Sign them to a big deal. And look, it almost didn't work, right? We were talking about the Panthers in mid-March. It didn't necessarily look like they were going to even be in the playoffs. But, you know, that was a team that had a tremendous amount of success last year, but ultimately had a hollow end of their season. And part of it was driven by the fact, you know, they were either going to have to extend Huberto that summer. Like, they had decisions to make on those players. Well, look, the Leafs are in the same circumstances right now. They have to make decisions. I mean, really, I don't think there's a decision. It's they have to figure out if Austin Matthews wants to come back what that contract looks like. They have to make a decision on William Melander, who can also sign the deal by July 1st that they make a decision on Kyle Dubas. You know, but I just don't see how, again, assuming this goes as it looks like it's going, the Leafs aren't in the same position as the Panthers last year where it just feels like, okay, we did a lot of good things this year, but we're a long way from the Stanley Cup, right? I mean, as we're recording this, there's still 12 wins from the Stanley Cup. It's like so close and yet so far away. There's only eight teams last playing, but that's a lot of games that they have to somehow try to win. And the Leafs just, well, if they played nine games in the playoffs, they're four and five. They've won one of nine games in regulation. You have to go back two years to find the last time they played nine games with only one in regulation. I mean, at the worst, absolute worst time, they have not played their best hockey and they don't deserve to be any further ahead. I mean, you can maybe say they could have won game two. Like, we could do that with all sorts of teams, but you are where you are for a reason. And I just think that they haven't played well enough to deserve a lead in this series. And really, in some ways, you might say with the benefit of hindsight, they're fortunate to get through the first round. And so if this just ends here in game four, game five, even game six, I think real tough questions need to be asked. And I think a new path has to be charted forward. Man, it's so it for me, someone again, an outsider to all of this, just waking up and seeing trade proposals for guys in the core four and just discussing Kyle Doopas's future or Sheldon Keefe's future. Like, I understand like, Leafs fans have endured way too much with this core. And I get why people are already looking to throw those names out there for trades and already pitching the putting the tent down that was pitched up at the beginning of the postseason. It's just like, it's not over till it's over. And I'm hesitating to get into any, I'm not saying you are, but I'm hesitating to get into any of that type of stuff. I'm very close to it. I'm very close to it. You're saving me from the ditch right now, but I'm very Yeah, because, because like, what if they win Wednesday? What if they win game six? What if, what if Brian O'Reilly is proven right? Brian O'Reilly, Brian O'Reilly's dad, there's a tweet going around there is a just a great feeling cheering for the Leafs that they will come back from a three game deficit and win the series. It just feels good to cheer for a team that can do the impossible. Like, like what, like, what if that happens? What if that opportunity does present itself for the Leafs? We would talk about one of the most remarkable turnarounds in NHL playoff history, a team that was the butt of the joke for how many, I mean, you could still argue they might still be and it would be worse for them off if they, if they get swept by the Panthers. But if they go through all that, but they somehow turn around like, like it's still, there's still a chance, but I also get history is played out too. And people are just fed up, man. Like this is, there you have every reason not to believe in this court. There's a chance, but then they have to play well enough to win the game. They haven't taken control, right? They haven't exuded, they will. I mean, they did look, they did the start game too. It was like 13 to three in shots at one point. It was two nothing in that game. They're on home ice. It looks like they're going to even the series and yet they commit these mistakes. I mean, really, they were self-inflicted errors that allowed Florida not only to tie that game, but to go ahead three, two early in the second period. I mean, for sure, there have been stretches in the series where they have exuded their will, exerted their will and been the better team, but it has not been near enough to win a game in my estimation. So, okay, go show it to us. That would be the way, if you wanted to write something nicer or say something a little bit more palatable on forms like this one, mix in a few victories and we'll be giving you flowers again. I mean, that's kind of how it works. I mean, do you see LeBron James quote this week? He's talking about in the playoffs, so he's just got to avoid all talk because he's like, you win a game and you're the greatest ever and you lose a game and everyone's tearing you down. I mean, that there is a lot of truth in that because that's how that's, I mean, we're trying to, we're trying to judge legacies in real time, right? I mean, we're not judging LeBron's legacy at this point in time, but I mean, for a group of players that have done a lot for the Leafs but haven't done a lot in the playoffs, we're judging their legacies in real time and in an 0-3 hole against the bottom seed in their conference, again, a good team Florida. Like, I'm not, none of this is really designed to take a run at the Panthers, but you have to beat a good team in the playoffs. Like, that's how it works. And here we go. Let's see what happens. Anything else you want to dissect from Panthers Leafs before we do a quick, you can bet that segment. Now, Paul Marie said at this table an hour ago, where I'm sitting now and he said, play your asses off, see what happens. That's where we're at. Go believe it on the line and we'll see who wins. I guess that's as best as we can take it when it comes to this series. Selfishly, I hope for your sake, you get to go home and not travel this much because you're exhausted. I know. I'm, look at it. If they want to stretch us out to seven, I will never make a complaint. Getting to cover the Stanley Cup playoffs is a dream, but, but, you know, I just don't see it right now. We're going to have to see something from the Leafs in game four that they haven't shown us probably really yet in the playoffs because it gets harder and harder the longer you go and they're, they're shrinking and shrinking. All right. Well, we're going to get to David Bastle for you can bet that real quick. We'll touch off on some of the other games and moments that have happened over the last few days and then we will get to a few questions. You can bet that with David Bastle. Brought to you by sports interaction, get in the action and make a play. 19 plus, please play responsibly. Welcome to you can bet that with David Bastle. DB always a pleasure to see you. Good to see you gentlemen. Remember to hit up sports interaction dot com slash SDPN for all of your gaming needs. Now by the time this episode drops, it may come just in time for the NHL draft lottery, which is tonight. Who is the betting favorite? Well, I mean, we already have the odds that are out there, of course. But how does sports interaction see it? You know what, they cut him zero it in on the same way the NHL has their odds as well. The Anaheim Ducks, of course, are the favorites to win the draft lottery. They're paying about a four to one at sports interaction right now. So you know what, but as you guys know, it's not always it's not always a team that has the best odds as far as drawing that magic ball, CJ. It's we've seen a lot of different upsets. One of my favorite upsets was when the the year the Jets moved up to the number two position to draft Patrick Linae. That was definitely lottery luck. I know a lot of Montreal Canadiens fans are hoping that lottery luck hits them tonight. They're around seven and a half to one to move up into that number one spot. But it's all about the lottery balls and which one will drop first? I bet there's a bunch of people in Vancouver hoping they defy the odds too. I don't know the odds are particularly on their side. But obviously Baddard growing up a Canucks fan and that organization badly needing a reboot. I mean, look, there's a lot of teams. I mean, who doesn't want this guy? I mean Anaheim, San Jose, these teams have not won a draft lottery in years. And so they're hoping this is the year because it looks like the prospect that you really want to get that pick for. Yeah, it's also it's crazy to think guys too. Like a team like the Washington Capitals are in this lottery and for for for capitals to get this kind of boost considering that, you know what, a lot of what we've seen in capitals past are still kind of around and to get this kind of lift at this time. It's like, you know, anything can happen and we will see tonight. Do you know my prediction? Fire. Give us your prediction, please. He's going to Columbus. Oh, Oh, just just a feeling. Just a feeling. I bought a I bought a seven and a half to one on the Montreal Canadiens. Just a and it and same sort of thing, CJ, he's just a feeling, you know, it's definitely not the odds on favorite. I think they're actually only the fifth best odds. So there's a there's a handful of teams ahead of them, but a bunch of teams behind them as well. What about you, Julian? What are you hoping for thinking or predicting or I would like to see him go to the Anaheim Ducks just with all those cool young players they have over there. That being said, I see Arizona stacked where they're at. And I'm not a conspiracy theorist. But I imagine the people who are conspiracy theorists see the number for Arizona, 9.03 according to a sports interaction, the six best odds. And they might jump all over that and think, Oh, well, Gary Betman is insisting upon hockey working in Arizona, despite the fact that it's actually a pretty big marketplace. Why not put Carter Bader there and double down on that? But again, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. No, just noticing a very interesting work and number. I just want that clear should be interesting. This is this is a pretty big deal as you guys know. Oh, for sure. We definitely know that DB. Thank you. Don't forget to check out sports interaction dot com slash SDPN for all the best odds before game in game best props sports interaction dot com slash SDPN. There is nothing in all of sports quite like playoff hockey, especially in the first round. So many close games, so many upsets, so many big moments. It is truly great television. And it helps that we have a few Canadian teams in the mix. Well, Toronto and Florida. I mean, I get it. It's not looking too good for Leaf fans right now. Hey, maybe something will happen. Edmonton and Vegas. That has looked like a really good series so far. And of course, we here at the SDPN have you covered on all there is to know when it comes to NHL playoff action. Steve Adam and Jesse on the Steve Dangle podcast and fine playoff form myself and CJ on the CJ show, which you have to be watching right now. So thank you. We're bringing you all that good can't miss insider info and make sure to check out both the SDP and the CJ show on your favorite podcast app, whether it's Apple, whether it's Spotify, and anywhere else we're there. Watch full episodes anytime on the SDPN YouTube channel and enjoy having us on your TV screen or on your phone in your ears. It doesn't really matter, man. Enjoy us as you enjoy the 2023 Stanley Cup playoffs. Let's spend a bit of time on some of the other playoff series. If we can, we don't have to spend that long and we got to get to questions as well. But we got to talk about the Edmonton Oilers and the fact that they have tied their series with Vegas. Leon Drysidal has we've talked about different points of the postseason, but in terms of him as a playoff performer, these last two games showing out for the Oilers, including that four goal output in game one, like dude is really killing it. I'd love to know your thoughts just to start off with the Oilers in the Golden Knights. Yeah, we're going to need a new record book of this continues up because Leon Drysidal has no regard for what you're supposed to be doing at this time of year with the amount of goals he scored in particular. And you know, what stands out to me is this is the second straight spring we're talking about it, right? We're Edmonton's top players have really pulled them through, have kind of put up some video game numbers and maybe patched over some other inadequacies or weaknesses the team has. And really, basically, they're leaning into their strength. I mean, there's no way Vegas can score at the level that the Oilers can if this continues. And so, we'll see what happens. I don't think a series is really defined or taken shape until you get to game three. I mean, it's a switch of venue. It's a switch of which coach controls the matchups within the game and in the series. I think it tends to be a pivotal game in terms of directing which way things are going. And so, you know, it was the response the Oilers needed in game two. The other thing I liked about Tri-Saddle, he had four goals in that opener, right? But if he saw his post game comments, he was pretty hard on his team in a good way, I think, just saying that's not the way they play that it's going to be different and then goes out and leads them. I mean, this is what we're talking about not to make everything about the Leafs again, but this is sort of when you're leaning on your top guys. This is the difference between winning and losing. And, you know, McDavid and Tri-Saddle have really helped Edmonton along. And I think it's going to be still a heck of a series with Vegas. I mean, the games don't carry over. So, you know, we're recording this before game three, I'm guessing that's going to look different than game two did. But having 29 on the Oilers side is clearly a benefit to them. Man, just thinking about last year, and you can go through so many other years when you compare both of the cores at Edmonton and Toronto. But before last year with the Edmonton Oilers, we were wondering about their playoff success and how much of that they were going to have with Conor McDavid and Leon Tri-Saddle. But it is amazing to see how one playoff run has made such a significant difference. Then getting out of the first round, then beating the Calgary Flames the second round, they even were victimized of a sweep. But at the hands of the eventual cup champion, Colorado Avalanche, who are not in their purview this time around. But to see that experience kind of work out for the Oilers and to hear a guy like Leon Dry side will say that's not the way they're able to, that's not the way they're supposed to play. Like that speaks from experience, that speaks from having gone through some of those battles, at least from last year and seen success and knowing what they're capable of. Like it's really, really interesting to see. Well, it's a player's time of year, right? The players aside these games, as much as we focus on the matchups and different changes to the lineup, maybe the coaches are doing to try to, you know, eat a little bit more out of their team at a time when everybody is giving it everything they have. You know, it's the players that dictate what happened to the game. And I think the Oilers have earned the right to believe, not only because of their playoff run last year, that certainly helps, that's experience, that's proof they can do it. But, you know, as we've talked about, they were the best team in the second half in the NHL. And they have been a dominant outfit, you know, over several months now, much longer than the period of time where maybe they were kind of a little bit middling out of the gate up and down, you know, strong first 10 games, week or second 10 game segment. I mean, they were much more up and down early on, but they've been clicking at a high level now, I think, for a long enough period of time that they've earned the right to believe that they should be Stanley Cup favorites. And not just in the, maybe in the betting odds, but just kind of in the way that they're viewed around the league. I think they have that reputation. I think that, you know, Seattle and Dallas have their own things to worry about. But whoever comes out of that series isn't going to be excited by the potential of playing Edmonton. I think they're going to view that as a really tough, tough call. And should the Oilers make it all the way to Stanley Cup final, whether they're playing Florida or New Jersey or Carolina or Toronto? Well, it's not going to be, hey, this is going to be a soft touch. And so, yeah, these, the players, I mean, I think there's a case dress that was the second best player on earth right now, right? And he's playing beside the first or at least within the same dressing room, depending on the night. So, you know, they have, they've got big weapons there. And when those guys are performing, I just think it's a really difficult matchup task. It's, it's a lot to ask. You know, Vegas is a pretty good team at not giving up generally too much of 5 on 5. They're, you know, pretty strong, organized unit the way they play. But, I mean, the Oilers can exploit that. And certainly when they get on the power play, look out. I was on another podcast and I said my top three in the world is McDavid, McKinnon, and Drysidal. I'm inclined to think that's act. I'm, I'm willing to put that up against anyone else's top three. And it might be everyone else's top three at this point. It might be. I mean, we get swayed by the playoffs, right? But that's what's, that's what's supposed to matter. Of course, but I mean, like Matthew Kachuk maybe isn't top three, but he's not far off. I think Jack Hughes, probably not top three just yet, but it won't be surprised when he gets there because I think you're seeing him climb. You know, it's not not a good time to be raised in the Leafs players' names, probably given where their series is at. But you know, at times, Austin Matthews has definitely been there and certainly was last season. You know, I guess it's a revolving door. I mean, right now no one's knocking McDavid at a number one, but I think everybody else that's in the two to eight range just to call it two to 10 range. Like you can cycle through the top three based on a current run of hot play. And certainly that's where Leon Drysidal has been at in these playoffs. Last thing I want to mention about that series, we cannot forget about Vegas and I get that they got walled the way that they did in game two, but I still think this goes seven. This is still a really good Vegas team. They found it would have figured out Edmonton in game one. As long as they stay out the penalty boxing game three, they give themselves a chance. I don't want to make it seem like we're dusting off the Vegas Golden 1980s shape or four. No, we're just shining Drysidal here, which is a pretty easy thing to do when you look at the scoring charts. But yeah, you're right. And look, the Golden Knights actually are pretty, if you look across the ear, don't take a lot of penalties as part of their DNA. And so it didn't go their way in game two, but I don't know that that's a trend as much as it might be an outlier for that series. And so, yeah, this is not over yet. We've learned anything from these playoffs. I mean, a lot of kind of upsets and unexpected twists and turns. I think they have a lot still in store for us in this Vegas, Edmonton, the best of seven. We should mention Jack Hughes too, as we go to New Jersey and Carolina really quickly, but like great performance from him. And the fact that this is a team, the first two games of the post season, you could say that guys like Jack Hughes kind of looked a little bit wide-eyed at the prospect of being in the playoffs for the first time with the core that they have. Then they turn it around, make some adjustments, and beat a team that didn't do that in the New York Rangers. And they win their first round series. And now they play a really good Carolina Hurricanes team. First two games, Carolina beating them out the water. But third game, Jack Hughes and the Devils from the word go just take over. Freddie Anderson looked very, very shaky in that third game of Jack Hughes man. Outstanding performance by him and the rest of those guys. That has to be noticed. And that's what growth looks like for them. I mean, it's not going away quietly, right? It's not being discouraged by the times when their game hasn't been there for them. They found a way through. They found a way back to win the Ranger series. No predictions at this point. I don't know if they're going to come back on Carolina, but they certainly delivered a pretty strong counter-punching game three. Went back to Vtech, Vanacek and Net too. So they've used two gold tenders. I mean, we see Carolina using two, well, three gold tenders because Coach Kov cut into game number three in that series with anti-ranta, I would ill. So, you know, it's quite a thing. I mean, the Devils, I've been pretty high on. I think I did pick them in this round. So I'll see if they can come back, but I mean, Jack Hughes is a difference maker and he's given to his team some big moments here in the playoffs. And Seattle and Dallas as well. They have to get shout out too because the Kraken once again is going first. This time, they score early and often. And I am scared to sleep on the Kraken for the rest of the playoffs. I know it looks like if you just go based on vibes and momentum, it's almost like a Seattle Florida finals in our crosshairs right here, right? I mean, Florida won six games in a row over Boston and Toronto. Hard to argue with that to get to where they're going. And Seattle just keep finding a way too. So, I mean, if that happens, who would ever call that? I mean, this is why we watch a playoffs, oh man, it's for performances like this from the Kraken because they've been full value to get to where they are. It's the same with the Panthers. They've outplayed really good teams and found a way to win games. And so, this is a pretty compelling turn when we got on our hands. Florida Seattle though, like, am I the only one who feels like even though they've both done their thing in the postseason, it's still not like the sexiest matchup to watch. Oh, probably not. No, but I mean, they're not going to care about that. They're trying to win the Stanley Cup. I mean, how do things get sexier? Have a team that wins the Stanley Cup, then your organization gets a little shine and gets, you know, more attention and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, that would not be sexy. It would be a difficult travel series. That's where my brain goes. Logistic CJ is just like, you're looking at your brain goes like a robot. Well, I'm just calculating. I don't know. Is there like a lot of direct flights? If they are, they're long anyway. I mean, when did this turn to an episode of the Jetsons? That's my era, bud. I love it. I was about to say, yeah, I purposely picked out that show because I knew you'd be up on the Jetsons. Thank you. Appreciate that. Let's get to some questions from Ask CJ for the Ask CJ segment. We've got a few on Discord here. Let's start from World Wide Daniel. Who are your no longer way to early Stanley Cup finals picks halfway through round two? Oh man, I mean, I'm going to stick with Edmonton just because that's what I had at the outset. I feel like it'd be shameful to bail on them now. The pants look dangerous though, man. Like there's something to be said for the team that gets hot and just finds itself is playing free and easy. They've got a pretty good health situation, Knockwood. You know, giving me some like 2012 LA Kings vibes, a team that snuck in, but just really damn hard to play against lots of gamers. So the Panthers are now my dark horse pick. I don't even know if I can say that. I mean, they're the closest as we're recording this actually to the Stanley Cup with three wins through round two, but I'm going to stick with Edmonton as my cup pick. I think the Oilers are going to get the job done. I think now we are going to get a 2006 Cup final rematch. We're going to get the Oilers. Whoa, like, like the Oilers look as dominant as we've seen them with the players that they have. The Panthers look really great too. And I get that they lost yesterday, but everyone has been sleeping on the Carolina Hurricanes from the word go for the playoffs. And they, I mean, the goaltending is very shaky. But if they find a way to bypass that, they could beat anybody, including the Edmonton Oilers. I'm not saying they will. I'm saying they have the pieces in place to beat teams like the Edmonton Oilers. I don't know if we're sleeping on Carolina as much as we just saw a Special Cobb injured for the year and then to patch or anything. And you didn't really, they didn't make any big splashes of the deadline. And so I just had my doubts. But you know what we would have if we had that series, we would have Yesi Pooley-Arvey back against his former team. Which you know, I know he's not a he's not a front line hurricane, but that would actually be of an interesting kind of, you know, given that player and just how he was like ground zero for a lot of different arguments online. That'd be a nice little twist, wouldn't it? Oh, that would be so good. That first press conference he gets to do at Edmonton, man. And Mark Spector trying to ask him those questions. That's going to go real well, real well. I don't know what the relationship is like. I'm sure it'll go fine. Mw Bauer. Try to hold back your laughter for this question, please. If the Leafs win in the second round, will you and CJ do another bet? I mean, I would do a bet with you whether the Leafs win or not. I mean, that's fair. Yeah, I don't think the Leafs have to be a qualifier for this. So, but the answer is, the answer is yes. If the Leafs win, we'll do a bet, but if the Leafs lose, the Florida will also do a bet. We'll just have to figure out which conference and what the stakes are. But we got, we got probably what, like a week to 10 days to sort of nail that down. I think we can do it. I think so. Hopefully everyone enjoyed the last episode where I suffered an 8-8 puts in hot dog, which I do not find all that great. Sorry, people. That being said, the puts in place was good. Last one from Congo Red. This is going to be very interesting. How do insiders hear about front office rumors? The New York Rangers were reported to have interest in Joel Kwenville, which was later refuted. And then Elliot Friedman said that the flames were interested in Stan Bowman. I believe he also mentioned the Pittsburgh Penguins as well. How would those stories get out? I mean, people talk, I think. No, I mean, like, I don't mean to try to like shroud it in not necessary mystery. I didn't report either of those stories. So I'm not speaking for the people that did, but in general, how those stories get out is you either have a contact. Well, it's can be all the above. You have a contact in the organization. Maybe somebody's represented by an agent. Maybe that individual him or herself has told you. I mean, there's all kinds of different ways things get out. I would say this, more often than not, it's less obvious than it would look like though. Like, I'm just going to guess, but I don't know. It's probably not Stan Bowman telling Elliot that. Now, it might be. I don't know. I really don't know. Obviously, Elliot and I are friends, but it's one of those things, even among respected colleagues and friends, you don't talk about that kind of thing. But, you know, especially when you get to a stage, which we're going to get to, whether it's the Pittsburgh situation, Calgary, some of the coaching vacancies, like once once interviews started, candidates fly to cities, people see things, people learn things. Usually, the names get out. As much as teams try to do things in secret or in confidence, it's not always possible when you're involving a lot of different people knowing about that information. Yeah. Also, that reminds me of the fact that we sort of mentioned Joe Quenville's name last episode. And I said, that's something that has to get tabled for another time. I mean, as of now, he hasn't even been reinstated. And it's the same case for Stan Bowman as well. So yeah, that's basically how I feel about that. Like, they haven't been reinstated. It's kind of difficult to discuss any of their candidacy for either of those jobs or any of the jobs that they've been put up for. So I guess it's just a situation we'll have to maneuver as it goes along. Well, I'll add this. I mean, my understanding is the league won't consider reinstatement until a team is trying to hire one of those people. So, I mean, the first thing that needs to happen is someone has to want to interview them and hire them. And then I think the league has to weigh whether or not to reinstate Quenville moment. At least that's my impression or understanding of how that will work. Then my next question, and I understand you don't have that answer, my next question is what would have to happen for either of them for the league to even consider reinstating them? Because they are part of a very serious, they will always be tied to a heinous and horrible story involving Chicago and Kyle Beach. And I'm very curious to know what it would take for either of those gentlemen to be reinstate. I'm not here advocating for it. I'm just curious about it. And I would love to know if it ever happens for both of those men, what both of them did to deserve a second chance? Right. I know they've both been very much in touch with the league and doing things behind the scenes, but I don't have full, honestly, I don't have full picture to that. And I don't know what the league is going to decide. So I don't want to pre-suppose an outcome there. But I think that there has been a pretty extensive process in place to get to this point. And at this point, as far as we know, neither has been cleared and neither is in a position to get hired. So let's see how it shakes out. Exactly. And with that, that's going to do it for our Monday edition of the CJ show. We'll be back on Thursday with a brand new episode. Subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen to podcasts, leave us ratings and reviews wherever you can leave ratings and reviews and be sure to check out all the other great content at the SDPN. For CJ, I'm Julian so long and enjoy your Monday and the rest of the week as well. The Chris Johnston Show. Howard by Sports interaction. One of that. Inside the game, twice a week. Follow Chris on Twitter at reporter Chris and follow Julian Mackenzie at JK and Mackenzie. The Chris Johnston Show.