The Next Maple Leafs GM Is...? | May 22, 2023

I know that some in our audience know the finer points of hockey. The Chris Johnston Show. We are your friends. The biggest stories. Bringing you inside the game. What did you hear? The Chris Johnston Show. Powered by sports interaction. What a bet. What is going on? Here's Chris with your host, Julian Mackenzie. This is our first podcast siege since the events of Friday. It was revealed Kyle Dubas no longer GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs. I have to ask you a very serious question to start off. This is a very serious topic. Of course, when do you expect to interview for this job? Because all of a sudden people are throwing your name out there for this GM job. You know, I just don't know if I can take the pay cut. That's really my concern. No, I don't know. I'm serious. Come on. I'm pretty sure that they have a long, long list. The long, long list before they ever get anywhere near my name. There would be roughly a thousand names before you got to mind on the list of people qualified for that job. Did you see that you should be your AGM? How much work would you get? I mean, hopefully a lot. I'm worried we would run the whole operation of the ground. As much as I love hockey and you do too, I don't pretend that I could actually do that job better than they could. I mean, maybe in some circumstances, but like, come on. Running a department of like 100 people, I mean, no chance. Yeah, it's a very difficult job. And like, I guess to kind of jump into Kyle Dubas here. Like, there's a reason why, you know, I spend my life just writing good podcasts. They get, I'm nowhere near career of management. So do you hear some of that Kyle Dubas take to the podium and be candid about how difficult it was to do the job? I know we've discussed this on previous podcasts to see that, at least from my outsider's perspective, kind of be weaponized against him. I think that's kind of whack. I think that's such a weird thing to have happen with with with Brendan Shanahan explaining the process of what went on over the last few days, ultimately leading to him getting bounced. Like, I think as someone who might not know, obviously wouldn't know as much as you in the situation, you can provide different perspective. Like how weird does this seem for Kyle to kind of just kind of creek open the door to make it seem as if okay, there's a chance I might not come back, but at least he frames it in a way where, you know, it's because of, you know, stuff going beyond the ice. And then ultimately, Brendan Shannon says, you know what, thanks, but no thanks. Like, I have a hard time looking at that situation and not kind of picturing Brendan Shanahan as a bad guy in this situation. Do I have that wrong? Like, how are you seeing this? You know, I don't see it as good guys and bad guys. I mean, we're talking serious business, right? They were discussing a contract worth a lot of money. So if we're going to get serious about me not taking a pay cut, come on, it'd be a pay raise for most people. And it just seems like it went off the rails, you know, and it happened, I think it happened quite dramatically. Like that's what I look at there is that as of the end of last week, Kyle Dubas was indicating he wanted to still be the GM to the team. And Brendan Shanahan until Wednesday and maybe even Thursday was still trying to sign them. You know, the fact that they, that usually when two reasonable people are working towards the same outcome, even when there's challenges, there's a way to get there, right? And obviously this didn't end up in that. Yeah, I think it's, I think because of that, it's quite surprising, right? It was a shock to a lot of people that work with Kyle Dubas and work for him. It was a shock to the marketplace, maybe a shock to the hockey world. I mean, certainly Kyle had left the door open by at least questioning whether he wanted to continue on or whether he could continue on because of his family circumstances. But even that was only a couple of days when you step back and look at it, I mean, Brendan Shannon said he got an email Thursday night from Kyle saying he still wanted to be the GM of the team. You have to wonder, you know, it was a Friday morning meeting where Shannon ultimately told Dubas that they weren't going to give him an extension. You just have to wonder, you know, do Kyle on that morning think he was going to get the extension then, right? Because because there had been talks about one. Pretty quick turn of events. And now they may please go forward. I don't think there's much time for them to be looking back certainly. And I would think interviews are going to start here in the next few days. And I don't think it's going to be a long process. I just don't think that they can afford to have one, even though of course, Brandon Pridham's running the ship in the meantime has been part of that operation for a long time. You know, I don't have any doubts about his ability kind of to lead the transition period. I just I don't think they're going to want it to be too long of a transition. Is Brandon Pridham still available for other jobs in the meantime? I think he would be, but you know, now that we know he didn't get the Calgary job, you know, I don't believe he was part of the Pittsburgh process. You know, I don't know what job would be out there for him to get. I mean, certainly no obvious places to link him to. And you know, I think he's pretty focused. It's funny, his low he was hired at about the exact same time as Kyle Dubas. I think there might have been a month between their hiring skipper take, but then, you know, they worked together for basically nine years too. And and, you know, certainly by the last few years, we're very closely tied together in terms of running the team. But you know, my sense is that Brandon Pridham is as hard as this would be on him, like anyone again, who's worked with Kyle and Liked Kyle, that he's going to continue on and, you know, be part of the Leafs front office. And so, you know, maybe somewhere down the line, there's a jam opening that he gets considered for. It doesn't seem like he fits the criteria that Brandon Chan ends laid out for the Leafs job just in terms of having general manager experience. And so I think he'll be part of the next phase of the Leafs front office here as it takes shape. And certainly now in the meantime, if anyone wants to try to have trade talks with the Leafs or any discussions, you know, there's the notes going around in the league saying that he's the one to contact. So what about some of these candidates for that job that fit that description best? Brad Shriliving seems to be the odds on favorite, a bit of a spoiler for, you can bet that, but like it seems like Brad Shriliving's name is being thrown out there for this job. Well, there's not a long there's not really a long list of former GM's that are still kind of in the prime of their careers and are available, right? Like it's not actually that lengthy of a list. And then Brad Shriliving's case, you know, he was a GM in Calgary for what eight or nine years. I mean, he certainly has a lot of experience worked in a Canadian market, understands the sort of pressures that come with that. And you know, obviously didn't build a team in Calgary that got over the top. I've built a lot of good teams and showed himself to be unafraid of a big move. You know, certainly was made some some pretty big transactions during his time there. And so I think he should be considered the favorite. I mean, when we say he's a favorite, he's a favorite heading into the interview process. I mean, the things can take a different term, you know, one's spread and channa and meets with candidates and maybe someone else leaps up. I mean, there's someone like Jason Bauderall who maybe hasn't gotten a lot of attention, but you know, some of what he didn't Buffalo now looks a little better, I think with time when you see a Tage Thompson, for example, become the player he adds with the sabers and, you know, Bauderall's still quite young. He was involved in the Pittsburgh process that's gone on here recently. He's assistant GM with the Seattle Kraken. You know, I could see him getting a look. You know, you go down the list. There's a few wildcards, right? I mean, a lot of people still seem to be mentioning Doug Armstrong as a possibility. You know, he's very much employed in St. Louis. Has been there a long time. Is busy currently actually at the moment over in Europe is Canada's GM at the World Hockey Championship. So we'll see if maybe the Leafs seek some permission for the Blues to talk to him. I mean, kind of an unusual circumstance if that happens, right? Because he is currently employed. And you know, as of the time of recording this, I don't have reason to believe that they've done that, but I guess it's a possibility. It's certainly something that's being pretty widely discussed. And then, you know, I do wonder if the Leafs, you know, try to talk to Stan Bowman, right? He would be another person who fits the bill of having past GM experience. But obviously at this point in time, it's not been cleared by the NHL to return to work. And that would have to be part of what would have to happen for him to get the job he was. He did interview in Calgary. So, you know, teams have started to at least knock on that door again. You know, I don't know if the Leafs will be one of them, but he fits the bill again of someone with experience. But then you go beyond that, you got what? Peter Schirelli, Chuck Fletcher, Ray Schiro. It's not really a long list of guys. I think that that's, you kind of get the Brad true living as a favorite. And if you take Shanahan out his word that it's going to be someone who already has GM experience, it's really not that huge a pool of people when you really narrow it down. So, imagine for Leafs fans who were just listening over the last few minutes over all these different names, the ones who were desperately clinging on to a name like Eric Talski. That name seems to be thrown around for any fake-and-see that comes up. They might be a bit disappointed. Am I right or am I wrong? Well, it just doesn't seem like that's where they're going. I mean, if you're considering Eric Talski, then shouldn't you be considering Matthew Darsh? Shouldn't you be considering even Brandon Pritum, who already works for you? I mean, those are all people that have built up a pretty positive reputation that have been sort of in the second in command seats on teams that have had a lot of success, that have certainly have experience, but just not the ultimate experience as a GM. I mean, if you're getting into that group, I mean, maybe Haley Wickenhiser, you'd be considering too, also an assistant GM in Toronto now. I guess it can't be ruled out because I can't remember exact words that Brendan Shenan used, but he sort of was just saying it would be an asset. Like, if you look carefully at how he said it, he didn't say it absolutely has to be someone with experience, but he certainly left the impression that that was his preference heading into these set of conversations. So, you know, at this point in time, I don't think the Leafs have sought permission to talk to Eric Talski, and I don't really expect them to just because he doesn't meet sort of the number one criteria that was laid out there. But you know, I suppose maybe they do a random interviews and they're not feeling it with someone. I mean, I guess it'd be too soon to say, I can't say anyone is totally out of the process at this point because it's really just taking shape, right? And it's only Friday morning that, you know, Kyle Dubas was ultimately left to go by the Leafs, you know, we're sitting here on a holiday Monday. Sure, it was a busy weekend for Brendan Shenan. I imagine a lot of people come out of the woodwork and are reaching out to him and seeing, you know, probably proactively maybe throwing their name in the hat here a little bit. But you know, at this point in time, I still think that it's going to need a few days to really start taking shape with this process looks like. Anything else about the GM conversation before I move on to some other Leafs questions I have? No, nothing really stands out, you know, at this point in time. I mean, it's the dust has finally started to settle. You know, obviously Kyle Dubas has moved on, Jason Spetsa resigned as part of that was the assistant special assistant to the GM last season in Toronto. Be curious to see where he surfaces. But you know, now we forge ahead. Is dramatic as that news was Friday? And it certainly was a pretty dramatic press conference with Brendan Shenan laying out kind of his version of the timeline of events when it came to discussions on a contract extension that ever came to pass. And now the hard work gets done and now, you know, what are we? May 22nd? I just keep counting down the days because there's a lot of decisions to be made here. And I know that's something we focused on a lot last week when we were even sort of laying out where things could go. But you know, Brad's really thing I think is fair to call the favorite, but certainly it doesn't mean he's getting a job at this point in time. I think it's just too soon to say. So we know the Leafs are trying to find a new GM. I mean, when we were trying to discuss everyone's futures last week, that didn't stop us from going down the pyramid with the Leafs in terms of Sheldon Keefe's future or even the future of the core four as it is. Like, where should we, where should I go here? Should we go back to talking about Sheldon? Because I still think there's a question, there's questions to be had with him in his future, but also with those four players of that core four. I don't know which direction we should go, but very much up in the year, even if we don't know who the next Leaf GM is yet. Yeah, and let's start with the players. I think what's interesting to me is that Brendan Shanahan phoned each of the Leafs top players last week to share the news about Kyle Dubas. And that those players came away from those conversations believing that that Brendan Shanahan's intention is to bring the entire core four back. Now, that's not written in stone. And obviously we don't know the GM is maybe the new GM has a different perspective on that. But I do think it's interesting that as much as we've focused on the possibility for change, maybe even the need for change, that those players actually believe that they're going to be back together, at least at this point in time. I was a little surprised by that. I mean, just because there's been so much talk and obviously even Kyle Dubas had opened the door on his last Monday press conference saying that everything would be on the table if he was running the team. Well, Brendan Shanahan's the top voice in the hockey department. And I don't know if he gave assurances or promises. You might get into semantics here, but certainly those players, I don't think are bracing to be traded now. Even as much speculation is out there, it just seems that they believe the organization wants to move forward with them as a core four. So that that'll be something to watch. It's a little harder to get a handle on Sheldon Keaves' future because I think that will be tied really directly to the general manager, what that person wants to do. One thing I can tell you is there's at least one other team out there that has an opening on their coaching staff and they're curious to see what happens with Sheldon Keaves because I think that they have interest in potentially bringing him in. If he does become available, now we'll see how timing goes. If it takes weeks, I don't know how long they can wait, but there's a few teams right now looking for a head coach. And I think that Sheldon Keaves would be viewed favorably by at least one of them. And perhaps he'll be viewed favorably by the GM that comes in. I mean, it's easy to imagine that you just fired the head coach as the new GM, but it isn't always the case. And we don't know what that person will think of Sheldon Keaves. I mean, the hockey world's small might end up being someone who has a tie to Sheldon Keaves from something or maybe he just admired his work from afar. That's where it gets tricky. Even when we talk about the players, you and I might go through and say, hey, whatever, Mitch Marner might be the most viable trade asset. Well, the new GM might be the biggest Mitch Marner fan on earth that comes in and there's just no chance of that. I mean, that's where you introduce now these unknowns into the process in terms of what's going to happen. And as I mentioned, Brendan Shanna and already seems to be in the corner of those players. And so while there's obviously big change now in the front office, still potentially behind the bench, maybe the roster isn't going to get quite the same shake up as I might have guessed after they were eliminated by Florida. I mean, there's still going to be changed. Leafs have nine or 10 unrestricted free agents. You know, that alone necessitates that there's going to be some turnover or probably significant turnover on the roster, but it might not be in those core positions that we might have guessed heading into the offseason. But I'm curious if Brendan Shanahan seems to be in the corner of those core four players and you're a prospective GM who, you know, obviously you want that Leafs job, but maybe you think the plan is to move one of those assets to get better pieces. Like, how does that affect the pool of potential candidates for that job if, you know, the intention by Leafs management is to keep those four in place? I can't imagine any world where the interview process or what you want to call it doesn't involve conversation about how you'd handle those players. And even, you know, what would you go into negotiation with Austin Matthews trying to pay them or maybe William Nyland or an extension? I mean, because it's such a, it's such a, one of the first big decisions that would be facing the new jam of the Leafs is sort of determining what to do with that set of players and when it comes to maybe those contract extensions and the like. And so I think that that will all be hashed out. I'm not sure that if you went into that conversation and said you wanted to trade one, I don't think that would necessarily exclude you from the conversation because, you know, Shanahan to be fair, Mark Masters actually asked him at his press conference on Friday about, you know, his views on what Kyle said about everything being on the table and the like. And he basically said, look, we'd have to keep an open mind. And so like, I don't know that he's actually fully made up his mind, but it sounds like he's at least initially more inclined to keep those guys around than to see one of them traded. And so, you know, kind of an interesting twist to this. I mean, what a fascinating offseason. This is one way or another in Toronto. I mean, you've had a fair amount of stability there. Obviously lots of changes around the fringes of the roster, but now all of a sudden it does feel like everything is still a little bit up in the air and, you know, we'll start when we find out the identity of the GM. Hey, anything else you want to mention about the Leafs before we go to, you can bet that. No, I think I'm good. I don't know if you saw it cause a little bit of a stir and Sweden with the, this was a Melander story, which is, which is kind of funny how these things turned out. I mean, I was just curious because for those that were watching, William Melander had said at his end of season media veil that he wanted to go to the World Championship a few days past and he didn't turn up in Finland to join Team Sweden over there. And so, you know, I started digging around a little bit just to see what had happened and found out essentially that, you know, I think Melander had some trepidation or some reluctance to join the tournament late because obviously his arrival would mean someone was taken out of the lineup. And in this case, there was at least the possibility it was his brother Alex. And so I reported on that and then I guess it caused a bit of a stir and I saw a translated version of a quote from Sam Hallum, the head coach in Sweden, sort of throwing dust at the fact that there's these reports coming out of Toronto about this situation. I think really the issue as the Swedish team hasn't said anything publicly about, you know, where this went wrong or why this didn't happen. But anyway, I think William Williams being a good brother and didn't want to, yeah, didn't feel good about it. I get it. It'd be weird to join the team. I mean, some players were part of a training camp and exhibition games and all these early tournament games and he didn't want to bump his brother out of the lineup at least potentially. Yeah, I thought he was doing the right thing. I thought we were talking about in the group chat about how nice he was. And yeah, I don't know if Sweden wanted to tip their hand there with that one. Maybe that's why it happened. I get it. It puts his brother maybe in a bad spot. And let's face it, if William, you know, had a gone over, he'd probably be the best player on the team or certainly he would be a very pivotal member of that organization. He's been, he's had a lot of success playing for his country. So it's a big story for that country that he didn't end up coming even after expressing a desire to come. And so I suppose that's part of, that's part of the story. Anyway, it's funny in Sweden, William, you know, he seems to be getting criticized. Whereas in Toronto, you know, I just based on the replies to the tweet, I said about that, it seems like a lot of people are like, well, what a good guys looking after family first and foremost. Also while we continue our World Championship update here, I don't know if you saw Norway beat Canada in a shootout three, two. That was, yeah, that just happened. Apparently it's the second time Norway has ever beaten Canada at the World Championship. It's funny. I think I was at the first, was the first in 2008 in Halifax? I don't remember when the first year was, but that would make sense. I remember a miracle performance by a goaltender named Powell Grotness, who was a Norwegian goalie who was also a carpenter. And he made like 50 saves against Canada. And they might have lost two run rather than winning the game. But anyway, Norway gave Norway either beat Canada at a game I covered or gave them a big scare. But Powell Grotness never forgot about the carpenter. That is a really good nickname and a really interesting story. And I would pay to read a story about that for you. Well, the thing is, is normally, I think it's changing a little bit. Obviously, there's a few more Norwegian players in the league, but a lot of the players, even as recently as the late, had real jobs too, or had additional jobs in the workforce in addition to being hockey players. They weren't fully professional in the way that NHL players are. Anyway, yeah, I'm just rambling. But yes, I'm just saying it happens at the World. It's a long tournament. It's the round robin Canada. I believe lost. They lost their first three games a couple of years ago to start the tournament and still won the gold. So it's a marathon, not a sprint. Let's get to you can bet that. I will try to find the first time Canada lost Norway at the Worlds. And we'll talk about some other news and notes around the NHL. You can bet that with David Bastol brought to you by Sports Interaction, get in the action and make a play. 19 plus, please play responsibly. Welcome to you can bet that. Remember to hit up Sportsinteraction.com slash SDPN for all your gaming needs. If you go on the Sports Interaction website right now, you will find odds for who will be the next Leafs GM. We mentioned earlier, Brad, your living is the favorite. He clearly is at 2.23. You can also find Toronto Maple Leafs next coach. A lot of different names that are not Sheldon Keith. Obviously it would be dependent on Sheldon Keith losing his job. We mentioned some of the bigger names for the GM job. What about some of the other kind of wilder ones? You know, like a couple, like a day or two ago, we saw Elliot Friedman's name. Actually, sorry, Elliot Friedman's name was thrown out for Leafs head coach. Leafs head coach. This is a list that has names like Elliot Friedman. Like why is he there? I don't even think there's enough digits in the world to put the correct odds. Like it is like a trillion to one odds that Elliot would ever be the head coach. I mean GM, you could maybe sell me on. But there's no there's no chance that Elliot would be the head coach. First of all, you have to comb his hair at least 82 days a year for games. So like that I mean, I would love for him. I thought that would preclude him from even doing that. So I could buy Elliot for GM a little bit, like Logshot, but like the head coach. Come on, DB. Oh, man. Oh, man. By the way, Leafs GM, let me try to get some of the wilder names out there. Jim Benning is is is there. Shout out Jim. He's got experience. Got experience. He does have experience. Brad Pascal, who is currently of the Flames AGM is also on the list further down. But Eric Lindross, Doug Gilmore and Mike Keenan also on that list. Aaron Hextahl is there. Brian Berg is there. Peter Schrelli, we kind of mentioned. But for next year and the three best odds are tree living, Tall skin, Pritum. But for head coach Joe Quenville, the betting favorite, Spencer Carberry, not too far off. Jacques Galant is also there. It's really funny to see Daryl Sutter's name in there because I still think dude's going to be on a farm for the next two years. He's got eight million reasons to do that. I don't know what y'all think it's. See Daryl Sutter coaching the Toronto Maple Leafs? Duh. I mean, the quotes would be legendary, but I don't think I don't see it either. I don't see it. I mean, maybe I'd see Daryl's got a better shot than Elliot, but only by a little bit. By the way, with Elliot, his odds officially are at 151. And Paul Bissonett and Don Cherry are at the exact they're tied essentially. And here's something for that sports net panel. Kevin Biexa has better odds at being Leafs head coach than Elliot Friedman. As he should. As he should. Let's run, I mean, first of all, like what's one thing he'd like Kevin Biexa? He can explain the game. He clearly, like he would have much more credibility in the role. And he looks good. He doesn't. He could do the job. What does it say about Paul Bissonett that he has just as good of a shot as Elliot Friedman does? And he also played that job. Man, I feel like they're playing us with these odds, man. I feel like they're playing us. I think you're just insulted. You're not there. For sure. For sure. Come on, DV. Help them burn it out. 200, not least 200. You should have put Chris Joss that 200. He should be there. I just want to be able to like, well, I'm not allowed. But anyway, someone have one of my buddies put five bucks on me just to like have the ticket, basically just to say they did it. Okay. Before the segment goes any more off the rails, be sure to check out sportsinteraction.com slash SDPN for all the best odds before game in game. Best prompt sportsinteraction.com slash SDPN. Hey, maybe next time you go on the website, you'll find Chris Joss since day, but 200 to one to be the next Leafs head coach. That would be hilarious. Could you imagine the CJ show? If you were at like any, anything affiliated with this team, this would just be like your meat. Someone suggested this should be your media vails. Like that would be awesome. The 100%ers would like it. The 100%ers would like it. Yeah, man. Oh, all right. Let's let's let's let's get back. Let's let's get out of this segment. Thanks for to get to you. Good. This episode of the Chris Johnston show is brought to you by Shopify. You should know what that sound means already because that is the best kind of notification. That is the sound of another sale on Shopify. And the moment another business stream becomes a reality. Shopify is the commerce platform revolutionizing millions of businesses worldwide. 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Why do I need to take all of these different vitamins when I could literally just pour solution at some water and I get 75 different vitamins and minerals in my drink. And you know, I do it before breakfast and it just gives me this great jump start to my day. I really like enjoying it. I like mixing a little bit of some bio steel or some maybe a little bit of of lime juice or something, a little extra just to make it taste even better than it already does. But like it still gives me those same 75 high quality ingredients that give me daily nutrients and long term gut health. So that's very important for myself. And if it's something that's important to you, you should take advantage of this offer. If a comprehensive solution is what you need from your supplement routine, athletic greens is giving you a free one year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your very first purchase. Go to athleticgreens.com.com. Johnston, that's athleticgreens.com.com. Johnston. Okay, there's other news and notes I want to get to, but I realize there's one name you mentioned in the first segment. I didn't really get to touch up on. And I kind of want to just make sure I heard right. Doug Armstrong, who's currently the GM of the St. Louis Blues, who has worked with Hockey Canada on so many different levels in international competitions, the possibility of him being Leach GM even if it's just the wild card, even if it's just like, you know, just kind of out there. Like, can we deconstruct that for a second? Because that kind of blows my mind a little bit. And rightfully so. And look, need to be very clear. I've got no indication of Leach. They've sought permission to talk to him, have talked to him. This isn't even a case of Doug Armstrong, like applying for the job. I think that there just seems to be a thought out there that there could be a fit between those two parties. And I mean, if you're looking for someone with experience, obviously, long, long time in the league as a general manager in Dallas back in the day and then now for Big Stretch in St. Louis, helped the Blues win a Stanley Cup in 2019. Also been a GM who's been very proactive on the trade front over the years. It's made a lot of big moves and packed full moves. You know, even we saw even this year, got a little bit ahead of things with St. Louis and traded Tarasenko and O'Reilly, Barbershev, Achari, you know, restocked on the fly, so to speak, for his team. And so, yes, I think that there's at least the possibility you hear his name connected to this job, but, you know, ultimately, he is under contract to another team. So it would require the Blues to grant permission from do that. I don't know if they would do that, but look, we're still in the early season of speculation on this position. And that's just a name. I've heard a number of different people have actually brought up to me. So I don't know where that comes from. If it's one of these stories like broken telephone or maybe there's a little bit of fire with that smoke. Okay. All right. So beyond the lookout for Doug Armstrong as a GM candidate of the Toronto Maple Leafs, I still find that very strange, but this is silly season, essentially, for all these different names and all these different vacancies, Siege. Yeah, I mean, the Leafs should aim high though. And when you talk about a GM and what they've accomplished, I mean, again, among the current working day people, I mean, Doug Armstrong would be a great near the top of anyone's list, I think. And so, you know, I guess if you don't ask the question, you know, if you don't try and see if maybe there's a chance there that then the Leafs might not be doing the most due diligence they can for this this role, because let's face it, I think this would be one of the more sought-after jobs in all of hockey, you know, it's similar to running the Montreal Canadiens or the New York Rangers. I mean, you're talking about an absolute top of the list kind of job and Doug Armstrong's a top of the list kind of candidate, the only problem, of course, that the gum in the work series, he's not a free agent, he's not free to go pursue any sort of work. And so, I guess we'll have to see if there's a way around that or even if the Leafs want to go down that road, but there's at least there's at least that discussion out there, I can tell you in hockey circles. Let's say the Leafs were dead on serious about getting Doug Armstrong. Is there a scenario in which they could trade somebody or something in order to get like Doug Armstrong's contract? Is that something that could be done? I don't know, to be honest, I don't know that there's any reason they couldn't be done. I mean, certainly we've seen that in other sports and there was a period, remember there was a period of time in hockey where you had to pay draft picks as compensation for hiring people from other organizations. So, you know, I suppose that could be worked out, but it would be so unusual. I don't know. And I don't know if, again, if the Leafs would be willing to do that, because they can just, for example, go talk to Brad's living and hire him. And there's other candidates out there too. And so, I wish I had an answer for you. I think it's allowed, but it would probably be case by case and obviously the league would have to be involved in approving any kind of transaction of that nature. Okay, so let's move on from that situation to a vacancy that has reportedly been filled with regards to Craig Conroy becoming the new general manager or is he expected to become the new general manager of the Calgary Flames? Sorry, I had to clear my throat for a second there. What are your thoughts on that news being announced? I mean, shout out Darren Dregger who was first to that while everyone was seemingly enjoying their long weekend. Yeah, what are your thoughts on that news being reported? Well, I think it's a great choice for Calgary. And I think what's interesting here is just how extensive the search was that even though they're basically promoting an assistant general manager that's worked under Brad's living for years there prior to true living leaving the organization, they did so after first considering a whole host of other names and having what seems like a pretty involved interview process. And so, you know, kind of tells you something when you go through that exercise and speak to a lot of different people and you still end up with someone that's been right under your nose the whole time about how positive the interview process would have been for Conroy. And it seems to me that he's someone who's ready for this role. I mean, keep in mind, he's worked in the front office, what, for 10, 12 years since his playing days ended. So he's been around a long time, obviously very familiar to that market, very familiar to the goings on of the team. He's been involved in a lot of things that have happened, which I think sometimes that can be viewed negatively. I see it as a positive because I do think when a new general manager goes into a situation, he's just got to learn a lot. Well, Conroy brings institutional knowledge to this job and by all accounts, the flames aren't, we're talking about a team that's going through a transition, but they're not looking to blow everything up here. And so, you know, Greg Conroy reminds me a little bit of seeing Bill Garren get the job in Minnesota. In his case, he jumped from Pittsburgh where he worked his way up in the Penguins front office. But I think that Bill Garren's done a pretty good job for a former player that had a grooming period. I think that Conroy is kind of of the same model. And I think that this is a hiring that that's going to be positive for Calgary. And it sounds like they're going to bring in a veteran, you know, a lot of talk of Dave Nownis potentially joining him in that front office. So someone who's can kind of be there, I think, to help guide him through some of the parts of that job that he would know. You know, Nownis was a GM in Vancouver, in Toronto. You know, plus he's worked in other front offices and secondary roles as well. And so, in between him and and Don Maloney, who was a GM in Arizona, I think that you've got some steady hands around to help guide him through the aspects of the job as he learns. And, you know, obviously a really well-respected person stepping into that role there in Calgary. And then there's all the talk about potentially Jerome McGinla joining the organization in some capacity. I know when I spoke to him, he was acknowledging that, you know, you're still committed to working in Kelowna at the Academy Ladies' Coaching Act. And he's looking after, well, his son too, hoping he gets drafted. I think soon after that happened as well. And it got me figured over the weekend, you know, if the flames wanted to put him in the organization, because I know I was told that there could still be a chance, even after he had said what he said, that they could make something work. The only job that makes sense to me is if he gets hired as some kind of special advisor, kind of like what Vaisana Kalavarier is doing with the Montreal Canadiens, where he has that role, but he still gets to live in Florida and kind of go about his business and whenever they need him, they just call on him. That's the role that makes sense to me if the flames are going to go down that road and bring Jerome McGinla into their organization. Yeah, I expect you'll see something like that. I don't know what the title will be or, you know, in the beginning, it might be a little bit loose because of his other commitments that you're referencing with his kids. But, you know, over time, I imagine there would probably be a plan to integrate him a little bit more into the front office. And obviously, he and Craig Conroy know each other very well. They were teammates. They go way back too. And so there'd be a lot of comfort level there. And I mean, I think for organizations like the flames and many others, it makes sense to have figures as strong as Jerome McGinla involved in your operation, that have had deep ties to the organization. And that would be kind of a nice, I think it's a nice bookends kind of moment. And then you just see how much he wants to work. I mean, it's funny, it's different for all former players, right? Some guys really want to jump right in and travel and be all in. And others, it's just a bit more of an advisory type role. And so, I think you work with Jerome and his family and what he's come through with, but it makes a whole lot of sense to have him involved too. Yeah, that's what, yeah, we'll just have to wait and see with that. It's seems like Tuesday is one we're going to hear, we're going to see that Kirk Conrad is unveiled as GM. And I would assume, I guess not too long after that, we'll know more about how he's going to fill out the staff and such. But that's at least one job that seems to be resolved. What about in Pittsburgh? What about the head coaching job in New York? Or anything else you might be hearing? Pittsburgh is starting to eliminate candidates. You know, so they've, like Calgary, it's been a pretty extensive process, it seems like. And I know that they started to scratch some names off. Yeah, I think that there's still some wonder, you know, what would Kyle Dumas reconsider? You know, what he said a week ago was a week ago at a press conference in Toronto, where he said he was either going to be Maple Leafs general manager next season or take a year off to recalibrate, I believe was a word he used. You know, maybe he feels differently with how everything went down in the last week. Because I'm guessing when he made those comments to the media, he wasn't necessarily anticipating what happened the next few days. I'm not sure anybody could have been or should have been. And so, you know, his remains a name just to watch to see if he'd at least consider having a discussion with the Penguins. You know, I think that there's reason to keep tying John Chica to that search. I mean, remember the Penguins are looking to fill sort of a president of hockey ops role and a general manager's role. Not yet clear that the press, even though the title might suggest one thing doesn't necessarily mean the presence more powerful than the GM. I mean, we're not sure exactly the structure. So maybe I won't fix it on the titles as much. It seems like Chica is in the mix for a role there. I believe Matthew Darsh has been among the names that seems to still be in the mix. A few others. So it's harder to get a read on that one. They're sort of scratching some names off the list, but there's also there's a potential of a new name here in Kyle Dubas. So we'll see if Kyle wants to consider a job in Pittsburgh or if not, I think that they'll start to really circle in on their final choice. You know, I haven't heard anything too new on the Rangers since we last recorded, but Patrick Wa is available now or will be, I guess, he's got to go to the Memorial Cup because his Quebec red parts just won the QMJHL title. But he's been a name that's been tied to that search. But I think it goes a lot deeper than that. And so, you know, I think that the head coaching ones are a little less urgent than the front office positions because you still have a head coach needed in Calgary. You know, the Columbus is still after a head coach. Obviously, the Rangers, Washington, still looking for new head coach. So there's a number of openings there. And then potentially, we're going to have to see what happens in Toronto with Sheldon Keefe once a new general manager is in place. So but I think with the distance between now and training camp, the teams that have front office openings are looking to fill those before worrying about what's going on behind the bench. All right. So with that, we can pretty much go straight to questions really unless there's something else percolating in terms of news and notes, basically just so much just the biggest news and note stop with GM stuff has been really scintillating. Of course, on top of the fact that we've had some playoff games too. It's kind of wild. Like last year, we focused so much more on like the playoff games. And I don't feel there was nearly as much news the same way that we have it now. So it's really interesting to see how it's kind of changed to this point. Yeah, I mean, we let the stories take us, you know, the stories dictate where we go, right? The games have been great though, four over time, great games to start the conference final. I mean, you can't ask for much better than that. I mean, you can't ask for much better than that. I really enjoyed the Carolina Florida series. I thought the game too and that series was great. And you know, it's one of those ones, Carolina is down to nothing as we record this now, but they must be feeling like kind of robbed. They must they must feel like they're in an O2 hole like in the way that the series has gotten in terms of the gameplay. Yeah, I feel for Carolina in the fact that they haven't looked bad. They've gotten decent goaltending. It's just not enough. It's just Matthew Goodtricks just a bad man. Well, I'm Sir Gabe Abrovsky. I mean, Tim too. I love I love I should put my cards on table. I love Matthew Kachuk. Like I'm not, but to me, it's not even close. If you're talking about a consmite as of now that, but Brovsky is it's been insane. Like I've seen some of the people putting out the models saying this is like the best 10 or 12 games stretch of a goalie in like 15 years. You know, like what are the odds? I know, but Brovsky's had a great career and all that. But the fact that he's got it together after starting this playoffs on the bench watching Alex Lyon play the games. I mean, it's unbelievable the story that he's authored there for Did I mention the Hall of Fame question was Sir Gabe Abrovsky with you? If his plays weren't enough to kind of put him in that discussion, I forget if I have. I don't I think we have it in the group chat a bit. I can't don't think we did it on the show. It's hard to look at if they want to stand Stanley company wins a consmite. You get a chance. I mean, it's hard. There's not a lot of goalies that go in the Hall of Fame. That's one thing. But if you look at his career, then would include two Vessentro fees a consmite and the Stanley cop plus a whole bunch of victories and lots of long tenure in the league. I mean, he's he's getting close. But the interesting thing about Sir Gabe Abrovsky, if you look back over his career, he's never really had any playoff success. Like, and I'm not putting that all on his own shoulders. Obviously, the teams he played for in Columbus were never he wasn't playing on the heavyweight teams of the league. But this is this is all brand new and it certainly is going to change the way his career looks if they can get the job done and if he can keep playing at this level, which you know, he still has to maintain for some time. I mean, you start to get close. You're still six wins, but you can still have what? Ten games or 12 games still more depending on if if they lose and these series get extended out. So we'll just just let that one percolate, but he's been unreal. Like there's certainly nothing I can take away from his performance so far. Counterpoint to Sir Gabe Abrovsky not having playoff success. Two of the biggest upsets in recent memory involving the best regular season team. Sir Gabe Abrovsky was the winning goaltender in both obviously with the Bruins Florida series and the Columbus Tampa series in 2019. He was the winning goaltender for both. Right. But then they lost in round two Columbus after beating Tampa. Like again, I'm not putting that all on him. There's a team. There's a lot that goes into that, but it's not as though he's been this magical playoff goalie with a reputation or anything like that. I mean, he's been a very solid goaltender over a long period of time, but you know, I wonder how long we've considered him the game's best. Obviously there's been individual years. I believe one of them was a lockout short in year, which I'm not taking away from him, but it's, you know, might look different. The one Vessna was from the lockout short in season. I mean, there's it's not a slam dunk off in case, but it's it's that's a lot better in a hurry. It includes a Stanley Cup and a cons my trophy. Absolutely. Okay, let's do a quick ask CJ before we wrap up our holiday Monday edition of the CJ show, which by the way, you are not in your familiar confines of your your Toronto condo. No, live from Cobra Papa's porch. So I'm down here in in God's country in Cobra. So please tell Cobra Papa on behalf of myself and the rest of the SDPN and the 100% is that we say what's up. And we appreciate and love you Cobra Papa. Yeah, if I was smarter, I would have lined up a cameo, but he's hiding somewhere in the house or in the backyard or whatever. So anyway, he's not he's not handy. So we won't have him drop in on this episode. He was he was being a good pop. So he's just letting you work. Yeah, for sure. He's being a real good pop. He's making me lunch right now, but we'll see. Okay, now I before I start asking more questions about what your your dad is making you for lunch. Let's get to a question from Robert Robert Malloy. What's the hobby you don't get to do during the NHL season that you're looking forward to? Is it white water rafting crochet? This question is apparently for both of us. I mean, I am an avid crocheter, but I also do that during the season. So that doesn't it doesn't fit the Roberts, the spirit of his question. I mean, for me, honestly, it's probably traveling and obviously I get to travel a little bit during the season, but not for for pleasure. And I'm looking forward to the summer to just, you know, going on a couple little adventures that don't involve NHL arenas as much as I love doing the things that involve NHL arenas. That's that's the biggest one that in golf. I usually golf a little bit in the summer and obviously don't do that during the hockey season. And I think after I have my hands heard, you're going to be able to finally, finally feeling well enough that I think I could withstand a few swings into the dirt. So I forgot about the fact that your hand got messed up earlier this year. I forgot. I mean, that man. Hey, look at that. It's a lot better now that it was a lots of goes like, yes, yes, it's it's it's it's healed. And I've done all the shows you exercise and serve things good. I think the one thing I'm looking forward to doing might be I mean, traveling to I know last summer I got to do a little bit of that. But hopefully this year I can do some stuff out of the country. I did a lot of little mini trips last year just going to like Quebec City and like Ottawa and whatever and seeing friends and hanging family. But it would be cool to just do a little bit more traveling when I can go out of the country, go to the back to the Caribbean. I haven't been back to the Caribbean a couple years, you know, whether it's going to see my fam in Trinidad and Tobago or hanging out with just hanging on Barbados or even Jamaica. I haven't been back to Jamaica and at least like for you. Like so I would love to be able to do one of those things. And if I'm not doing that, I'll just spend time playing video games. I don't get enough time to do that. That's a fine answer. Perfect. Any down times appreciated, right? Are you actually good at crochet or were you just kidding? No, no, no, I don't know. I actually don't know what that is really like I know by the way it is. But no, okay. Kongo Red has another question here. How much behind the scenes knowledge do you have to sit on because you can't confirm the story or because it's in bad taste release. Does that happen often? Yeah, all the time, every day or most days. You know, a lot of time because there's a difference between knowing something and knowing it, right? And so there's a lot of stuff that you think you know, or you got pretty good beat on, but you know, you need a certain degree of confirmation to go with a story. And especially this time of year, there's a lot swirling around, a lot of rumors, obviously people are changing jobs and interviewing for jobs and we're going to move into the trading season a little bit in the signing season. So this time of year, there's a fair bit that you think you know that you have to kind of sit on. And you know, that's just part of it. And obviously we're trying to confirm it too so that you can break the odd story along the way. All right. And that's going to do it for our holiday Monday edition of the CJ show siege. I'll let you get back to lunch. I appreciate that, my man. I appreciate that. Of course, ma'am. We'll be back on Thursday with a brand new episode of our dear show. Subscribe to the podcast. However you listen to podcasts and keep it locked here for more news and notes for CJ. I'm Julian so long and enjoy the start of your week. The Chris Johnston show. Powered by sports interaction. Inside the game, twice a week. 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