This is the crossover NBA podcast, I'm Chris Manick, senior writer with Sports Illustrated
joined by Chris Herring and Rowan Nutcerny the day after the NBA draft fellas and can I just say
first it's time for a reimagining of the NBA draft it is and I'm look I'm sure the ratings will
tell me I'm wrong but it's just not a television event anymore it's so very formulaic it doesn't help
when you have a draft like we just had which after the first few picks was largely anti-climactic we
didn't have any seismic trades to to kind of go off of and it just didn't have a lot of drama
attached to it but I don't know man like when I watch the NBA draft and look ESPN and ABC both
had coverage of it one of my pet peeves is like can we get more guys on set that will tell me
why this guy's not gonna work out can we get more like is it weird to ask for more negativity in this
moment because like it just seems that I'm watching and like every player is gonna be a contributor
when the reality is like 10 to 20 percent of all first round draft picks meet or exceed the
expectations the team had of drafting them and go back in history and look at you know you know
lotteries over the last 20 years yeah I got I want more negativity in draft coverage
make the draft negative again I really bring this up because when I was when I was at Yahoo
we did a a the vertical we did a draft competing draft show and Tom Kreen was on that draft
long time college basketball coach and Tom Kreen was excellent on that draft because you know
every few picks you'd be like oh I can't play I remember Tom Kreen was talking about Tyler
Leiden the uh were you both are familiar with the Syracuse uh guard who went to Denver I think
at 21 and Tom Kreen went out there and said that Tyler Leiden was not gonna make it in the NBA
and it created kind of a a shit storm which you know Denver GM at the time Tim Conley had to
respond to it well you know what Tom Kreen was right Tyler Leiden couldn't play Tyler Leiden
wasn't an NBA player I herring do you want more negativity in draft coverage or am I just the
negative guy of the dog you just threw that straight in my lap um what I'll say I think that there
could be more there could be a little bit more balance I mean I think um objectivity I would
call it I would call more objectivity yeah and I mean like I'll also say this I think that
from this standpoint I want to respond to exactly what you said because I think there's a good
point to be made there but I also think that there's some things that they did well that I
appreciate I think buried in there somewhere I retweeted I retweeted something along these lines
like I think first of all and maybe this is me as um maybe it's me sometimes looking at stuff
as a black man to where I think the drafts in general have gotten really really heavy on
tell me about the worst hardship you've ever had and while I think that like that's appropriate
in some cases there was a situation last night where I think um one of the players was talked
about quite a bit his mom had cancer his father passed away it's appropriate in some cases I
also think sometimes you get the impression whether a player really wants to talk about that
because they brought it up because it's been such a part of their story I don't think it has
to be every pick and I think Monica Monica McNutt did a pretty good job of being prepared to talk
about certain things as each of these players in the first round came to sit down with her I enjoyed
that part of it I think she's wonderful I think to some extent um you know you you have some people
that were up there that are really objective Andrea Carter I think is actually very very good at her
job um I thought she did a really nice job uh for the first time doing it J.J. Reddick is also
someone that I think um has a good relationship with players because he just came out of the league
he's obviously someone that is very well versed in what he's talking about um but you know he's not
someone that I don't think he watches college full-time um Andrea Carter covers the WNBA she's
still very very focused and does a lot of the the stuff for college women's basketball so I don't
know that either one of them is focused on men's college basketball all the time the way that
someone like J. Billis is so it's like I think that's part of it too is that these are people that
even us three we talk about this privately like we don't cover college basketball and so the draft
is always kind of an interesting time of year for us as well but I think that's probably part of what
it is I thought that some of the stuff of of staying away from some of the rampant I won't say
negativity but some of like the heart-string stuff that I think I don't know if it takes away
from a beautiful moment but it's like it doesn't have to be the focal point I don't need to
have my heart ripped out of my body every time someone gets drafted and uh so I appreciated that
aspect of it but I do hear you that at one point and they did bring in waltz for this and so at
least thank goodness that he was able to do it when someone slides from potentially being a top
10 pick to being in the 20s somewhere it's very clear that there's a reason that that's happened
and I think it's okay to say that it's okay to speculate or wonder what that is or what that was
it didn't just happen for no reason and uh so it was a little bit weird to see that slide play out
and um you know I also thought it was interesting that the player himself wasn't like didn't seem to
be stressing about it but it's like can we get some analysis of that and I think it is okay
at a certain point I really didn't see it happening until the second round about why certain guys
had lasted as long as they did and what their shortcomings were and Jay Bellis was good about doing
that but um yeah I think that there could be more of a balance more of an objectivity and I think
it would require you to bring in different guys there are certain people that were very very
used to seeing on the draft that just weren't there or weren't part of it this season for whatever
reason um I saw a lot of people saying that they were they were they were saying a lot of people
saying that they were happy that Kendrick Perkins wasn't doing it and I'm not going to complain about
that necessarily but there were other people that um Fran Facilla is someone that has a lot of
knowledge on like international guys and people that um are on the college side and I think
sometimes we'll give you the skinny on kind of why someone you know isn't a top pick necessarily
and just isn't part of it and so it's like I'm not sure what you do Mike Schmitz I thought
who now is with the Blazers is someone who was very very good I thought it not only getting players
to open up about their process about what they do well what they don't do as well and not having
it feel like an accusation but was honest about what he saw and um he obviously now works on the GM
the front office side and not for ESPN anymore so it probably will take a while for them to find
that right balance I think um I love how herring just gave us such a much more detailed answer
than any of it he ran through their whole draft analyst roster um I'm impressed all I'll say is
that I hate I like to meet some red flag when people are like I can't wait to watch the draft
right I'm like really um have you heard of any of these guys you mentioned college basketball
the top picks don't even play college basketball anymore yeah what is over time elite is it like
a trick talk account I don't even know um I don't need to watch the draft I think it's so boring it's
like a lifetime movie level event as you mentioned with these insane backstories they try to throw on
there um I'm glad it's over I'll just leave it at that yeah look I would like to suggest because
ESPN does multiple different versions of the draft they're the ABC version which is more
about the athletes themselves they tell more of their stories on that version ESPN presumably
more of an analytical draft show then I flip on you know on Twitter I see Brian Windhorse
doing some other version of the show um how about haters just to haters one exactly like you know
I remember reading that series from that Drew McGarry did for Deadspin this is why your team sucks
like how about a this is why your pick sucks like just tell me why this guy's not going to make it
like you know you can just say like our here is positive attributes but this is why he's not going
to make it that just by suggesting Nicholas worth a free advice for ESPN do an entirely negative
show now nobody's gonna want to do it because they don't want to be the guys that bash you know
incoming players and are by extension bashing the teams that drafted them but I'd watch that
version guys I'd watch because I can't I can't sit through like the 19th pick you know being called
a potential difference maker for a team I just can't I can't do anymore I can't I think you raise
a really interesting point though that with with the finals and with with the Super Bowl and
everything else now we've got no point where there are all these other uh ways to watch the draft
in terms of different analysts that frankly focus on different things whether it is the hardcore
analytics whether it is kind of the fun room and it's kind of comedians almost more more than anything
else whether you're going to hear you know uh Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde almost too in terms of like
someone that loves the pick versus someone that it's kind of a hater with anybody that you throw
out there you know it's a big enough event with enough people watching where I think they could divide
it that way and have different channels for this stuff and maybe that would make more sense and
give people more options but it it it is an interesting event to watch I was I will be really honest
from what Rohan was saying kind of bored after a while because I thought there would be more trades
involving players and I kind of feel like for me you you raised both of you as raised a really
good point a lot of these guys aren't American college players anymore and so it's like the limited
knowledge that a lot of people are going to have I mean this was probably the best NBA could have
asked for in terms of if you've had a star that's not an American college player when Maniyama had
gotten as much attention as anybody could really get but after that what story was there really to tell
and you know so it was you know I also noticed it too when everybody was still talking about the
Brandon Miller Paul George Comet you know a day later when he has to be asked about it multiple
times it's like okay there's really not much to talk about here so but anyway and it's just
crazy to think about given some of the stuff that came up regarding Brandon Miller uh this has
been a strange draft season to say the least I think on a lot of different levels but
all right well I nominate the haters show let's let's go let's make it happen all right so
obviously we're not going to break down uh the picks in this draft I want to talk about some of
the trades though that we saw in the days before the draft and I want to get into the future of
Damien Lillard a little bit because now we have some kind of concrete uh evidence we've got a path
that seems at the blaze of chosen with that number three overall pick but let's start guys with
the deal that Boston Memphis in Washington made that sent Kristaz Porzingis to Boston Marcus Smart
to Memphis Tyas Jones some draft capital uh to Washington this is a deal those put together
at the 11th hour in the middle of the week because they were on a deadline with Kristaz Porzingis
opting into his contract this was a deal that originally was going to include the clippers
and was going to mean Malcolm Brogdon would go to the clippers in that deal the clippers ultimately
backed out of that because Brogdon's got some health issues uh you know obviously with that forearm
injury that cost him some time during the playoffs uh but it was interesting to see the Celtics pivot
to Marcus Smart and make a deal involving Marcus Smart who has been a Celtic for nine seasons
defensive player of the year two years ago it's a cliche to call him kind of a heart and soul
of that team he died his hair green he died his hair green he is he is kind of the emotional center
for that team he is the he has that that going for him there uh they get Porzingis
add him to the front court rotation that's a good thing but they lose Marcus Smart and I'll tell you
I'm a little concerned about where Malcolm Brogdon's going to be at the start of the season like if
this injury was so significant that the clippers wouldn't touch him and the clippers we know
star for a playmaker they're looking for anybody out there that uh can start a point guard and their
money is no object to them obviously with Steve Balmer running the show they wouldn't touch Malcolm Brogdon
so when I look at this deal I don't just think of Porzingis necessarily for smart I'm thinking
it's Porzingis in smart out maybe Grant Williams out because we don't know if the South is going to
be able to afford him uh going into next season and Malcolm Brogdon kind of in no man's land and
the South is could be faced with starting the season with a back court rotation that includes
you know Derek White and Sam Hauser as as part of it so I don't know like Rohan do you look at
this deal is there a winner in this deal in your mind well I don't know if it's necessarily a winner
but I do like the deal most for the Memphis Grizzlies I think this is a home run move for the Memphis
Grizzlies it's someone who is a culture fit but should also elevate their culture at the same time
and I know that as frustrating as Marcus Smart could be for Celtics fans sometimes there's a reason why
he is a fan favorite and he's now someone with you know years and years of big game experience that
he's bringing to Memphis he's going to start for John Marant while John suspended and then when
John comes back he slots perfectly into the Dylan Brooks role and he's a better version of Dylan
Brooks he's a better shooter he's a better offensive player I think he's equally as effective as a
defender I mean their back court kind of swing rotation of Marant Bane and Marcus Smart is really
good and you put it up there with any any kind of three guys like that in the league so I love the
deal for Memphis I think it's going to pay dividends for them both in the regular season and the playoffs
as far as the Celtics version of this goes man I'm talking about this with a lot of just you know
writer friends etc because it's it's such a fascinating trade man it's so hard to save this is a
net positive for Boston or not because on paper porzingis is a fantastic fit in the front court
he's going to shoot a ton of threes he fits really nicely in with the offense he can play drop
coverage you can play him as the soul big with other bigs you know Brad Stevens even alluded to
that last night but similar to when they acquired Brogdon last summer and I was one of the people
saying the Celtics had a fantastic summer the the question on Brogdon was can he stay healthy can
porzingis play four playoff rounds three playoff rounds we haven't seen him do that to the stage
in his career we haven't really seen him in big games and playoff games you don't know how he's
going to respond to that environment and it's interesting because while gave them some optionality
in the front court I wouldn't say it's turned their back cord into a weakness or anything like that
but let's just look at it in the context of the playoff run we just watched where we saw James
Harden attacking Malcolm Brogdon on switches in the playoffs we saw Jimmy Butler target Derek White
and Malcolm Brogdon on switches in the playoffs those guys aren't bad defenders in fact that they
won a lot of those battles but those are the guys that that people picked to attack against Boston
is Peyton Pritchard gonna have to play a little bit in some big moments now it's it takes away a
little bit of what's made the Celtics great the last of years which is they had some linemps where
they were throwing out five great defenders at once or they had six great defenders on the roster
of time and it made it very difficult to attack them I'm very interested to see the ramifications
of the decision to go away from that to an extent um I've gone back and forth on what this trade
means for the Celtics several times and it's one of the rare ones where normally I don't care I'm
willing to make a judgment on a trade I do trade grades I love it I don't care if I'm wrong
I still think the moral arc of the universe bends towards me being right about the subonus trade
being a bad deal for the kings but moral arc of the universe get this dude out of here I have no
idea what's going on with this porzingis one man I'm gonna I'm just gonna have to watch it but
it's a it's a real real confounding one for me well good Harry my concern my concern herring is
is beware contract year porzingis that's kind of what he was this year uh the
stand on the floor put up big numbers uh is he going to be that same guy still young enough 27
years old and there's still plenty of upside left in him and I think he's going to a team that
will he'll fit into uh probably as a starter I mean I would imagine alhorford 37 years old next
season his days as a starter uh might be numbered and rob Williams as yet to prove he can get through
an entire season without having some kind of significant entry so he's gonna get opportunity
in Boston but I don't know what do you think of uh you know the new look south x
right and we should sort of point out right now like the south x are going to be active the next
couple of weeks something else there's another shoe to drop in Boston whether it's a signing or a
trade or something else that fleshes out the roster but for right now it's sort of a weird mix
of players in that rotation I think that's the key is what else comes next I would imagine I mean
Malcolm Brockton is a stand up guy like you're not going to hear a complain about him from a coaching
staff or anything like that as far as you know he's he's one of the most dependable guys in the league
as far as just showing up and just you know he's always going to say the right things to the media
I imagine he's not thrilled about what just happened uh it's embarrassing it's uh
it's the sort of thing that makes it awkward to come back into a locker room it's frankly what
the south x were dealing with the backlash from what jalen brown um earlier this season and some
of the stuff that he was complaining about is the idea of these trade offers that are made that
then don't happen and they're quite publicized when they become public so there's that aspect of
at this point maybe it's better for you to find someone else also um Malcolm Brockton was was far
from the most impactful wing that they had whether it was off the bench or just in general
Derek white was highly impactful Marcus smart was highly impactful with this group um they also
had longer that they played with this group and and you know can argue that they gelled more um
so Brockton was the one that made the most sense to go also that's even aside from the injury stuff
I think um so it's awkward that you go from trying to do that to then trading a guy that I think
a lot of people would say was the heart and soul of this team um someone that was a better defender
than Brockton uh and and and knows the culture of the team more uh also someone maybe the only guy
really who's going to really fundamentally light up fire under your two best players and be willing
to do it after you lost the coach or let go of the coach and we know why so it's not it's not to
say that it just came out of nowhere but let go of the coach that was willing to do that so
this was so weird to me that we went from okay this fell through now we're looking at more maybe
even like a straight up deal to unload um you know to to get porzingis here and then it turns into
to mark a smart like it came out of nowhere for so many of us I feel like came out of nowhere from
Marcus smart yeah yeah allegedly he he heard about this 15 or 20 minutes before it actually happened
no that's true I thought I talked to people around him and and he was shell shocked by his deal
yeah so it was just it threw me for a loop I I mean the the rotation part of it is strange just because
I don't know granted porzingis is is the most talented player in the still we could all agree to that
at the same time he is an often injury prone big with all the talent in the world and you're
throwing him into into a rotation with the guy that is a 37 year old center and a center that is
very very talented but injury prone a lot of the time as well so it's weird from that standpoint
it's weird from the standpoint of this being a team that quite frankly and and joma zoola said
this every time he was asked when he was asked are you guys just relying too much on the three and he's
like they just didn't go in for period now you go get a center who a lot of times will hover around
the three point line now he can do more than that I've written about how he's been more efficient
than he ever has in the post he's been more comfortable in the post than he ever has so there's
other opportunities there doesn't mean he only shoots three his three point attempt numbers were
more less in line with his career stuff it wasn't that he was just only doing that but it does
at times probably will make you look even more reliant from the three point line than you otherwise
would be so it's just strains from a lot of different standpoints but let's see maybe they move
bragged in still and they find a taker for him maybe they find someone who is just a ball handler which
I think also might help because the thing that I disliked about this most even as Marcus smarts
numbers had come down his three point shooting last year was not great I actually don't know that
he's that much better of a three point shooter than then someone like Dylan Brooks the way
Rohan said at this point anymore but what I dislike about this most I think for them is just
this is a team that gets wild with the ball in big moments with Tatum and Brown leading the
offense Marcus smart was really the guy that you could kind of depend on that at least coming up
was a traditional more of a traditional point guard so to let him go again of all the guys they have
I understand that you trust Eric white quite a bit but I don't know that I would have done that
maybe it's just one of those things where it threw me because we saw a different iteration of this
trade for them to get porzing is and it might turn out to be exactly what do you remember the
bucks thing a couple years ago where the true holiday thing happened and then they tried to get
well it's like it's like the re it's like the Malcolm Brogdon's become the Eric blood so
of the Malcolm Brogdon Eric blood so decision a little bit that I was thinking about why am I
blanking on as it bucked out of itch where they were supposed to get bucked out of itch and then it
fell through because something wrong happened or they you know they they overplayed their hand or
they they had a deal done before they were legally allowed to have a deal done it's not the same
thing but it kind of has some of that feeling where it might be the right deal for them but it just
was awkward the way it happened and you ended up having to do more than what you should have had
to get the guy you wanted and I really wouldn't have wanted to give up Marcus smart it could work
for them but I'm with Rohan on this that I think that the Grizzlies have to be thrilled because
Marcus smart was the perfect guy to go out and get maybe more perfect than anybody else I could
have thought about the top of my head and the whole league to replace somebody like a Dylan Brooks
I think. Manics I have a question for you what do you think Pursing is is going to be on like a
one year let's see how it goes are they going to extend it they're going to extend it but I if I
was a betting man I don't know if it's the two years seventy seven years before but if I was a
betting man they'd find a way to extend him for a couple of years he's young enough
you know this window is open right now for the Celtics I would bet that they extend him for
a couple of years I just think they need to do something else because again to circle back as it
stands it's effectively Christophe Sporzingus for Marcus smart and probably Grant Williams maybe
they can get something back for Grant Williams in a sign and trade I don't anticipate Grant Williams
being back with this group and look say what you want about Grant Williams I would have struggled
he struggled in the second half of last season but Grant Williams in the first half proved he was
reliable three point shooter he has been a versatile defender I mean I saw a lot of people on
Twitter's crappin all over Grant Williams like he's just as throwing like the Celtics wouldn't have
made the finals in 2022 if Grant Williams didn't have the game of his life in game seven against Milwaukee
he was that he went with Jason Satan played poorly Grant Williams played exceptionally well they
needed Grant Williams then he's a young guy he gets along with team with players in the locker room
I would not be so quick to make Grant Williams a financial cap casualty without getting something
significant back in return the Grizzlies could look at him too as we're talking about the Grizzlies
in moves they could make for to replace Dylan Brooks like Grant Williams he could do a lot where
if he's still shot damn near what was in almost 40% even with the struggles last year from three
out Grant Williams is Grant Williams is almost single handedly responsible for the Milwaukee bucks last
summer being like we need to change the way we play defense because of what Grant Williams did to us
I so it's interesting because I agree that the Celtics needed more front court depth right and
part of that was maybe Galenari's coming back I just think Grant Williams is the kind of player you
you keep and you resign long term and the reason I ask about that for Zing is extension is if he
signs for let's say let's say he gets the two-year 77 million he's effectively joining the Celtics
for three years at a hundred and thirteen million dollars I personally I'd rather give that
money to Grant Williams younger more durable like why was he it felt like he was out of the rotation
because of Missoula not anything he did and you wouldn't he was out of rotation he wouldn't shoot
like you know Joe Joe likes you know 75 reports tempted for game and Grant Williams they might have
hesitant and stretches they might have been in the NBA finals if Grant Williams played in game one
of the Eastern Conference finals that's not that's not no no no no Grant Williams Grant Williams is the
one that you know it let the fire in a Jimmy Butler yeah that's right okay so no that that is a
bridge too far for me with great Williams I do think they should bring him back but if they don't
they've got to get something back for him in return hey all it's Amisa and Devon here and we've
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all right let's talk about the other deal that went down this week and that was Chris Paul
going from Washington where he I hope he got a jersey from the Wizards kind of Carmelo
asked uh with his time with Washington I mean come on you're it's on your resume now
we're trying to watch the gay stuff of Paul Jersey everyone Carmelo retired uh
Chris you did that story had the hawks put out the the the end of an era yeah
uh tweet with their commentators did I was surprised they did that I was that was fun that was
great I hope the Wizards someday do the same thing with Chris Paul um but Chris Paul goes to golden
state and look this was not about the warriors saying we need Chris Paul to win a championship
this is about the warriors saying we no longer want Jordan pool and his salary on our books it's
simple as that um I don't know the answer to the question of would they kept Jordan pool had
there not been the Dremont stuff that happened over the last year you know that's certainly
out there as a talking point or some are worth questioning but I think it was clear the wars
won off that contract they signed Jordan pool that contract after he helped the winner championship
in 2022 he didn't play as well in 2023 and I think golden states looking at these draconian you know
CBA uh rules that are really gonna punish teams that go over that second apron looking at Jordan's
pools contract and saying look we can get a player of that caliber or at least near that caliber
in the draft in in the years to come Chris Paul makes 30 million dollars in this upcoming season
but his contract next year is non guaranteed so this is just a one year swap with more flexibility
over the next two uh for golden state but now Chris Paul is gonna be on the warriors this year and
I'll tell you herring it's a weird fit to me like a very weird fit I mean Chris Paul is the king
of pick and roll his shooting dipped a little bit uh this year and you saw the way teams were defending
the sons when all the players were healthy they were doubling up on Devon Booker they were
doubling up on Kevin Durant and they were kind of daring Chris Paul to beat them from the outside
it's a weird team to put Chris Paul on not that Chris can't have a ton of success and golden state
does run some pick and roll offense but most of what they do is like pass and cut and move to a spot
it's really not Chris's game or hasn't been his game for much of his career it's hard for me to
envision him kind of reinventing himself at 38 years old to be a warriors type of player so what do
you think of the fit herring with Paul and golden state uh look I actually I like it for them I
hear what you're saying and and agree that the warriors have relied on pick and roll offense oftentimes
less than any team in basketball they they have a offense built around Steph which is more intuitive
from the standpoint of cuts and screening and guard screening steps screening perpetual motion
to perpetual motion they absolutely they're always moving out there absolutely and it it's worked
obviously you know to the tune of four NBA titles for them where I think it makes sense for them
is that I I bitch and complain every year about despite how much they win the fact that they
turn the ball over even worse sometimes than than the Celtics were that we were talking about
with Tatum and Brown um they they've lost the title you know where Steph is throwing the ball behind
his back um you know in in a finals run before um it it just bad times where they it's like they
can't help themselves um and Chris Paul generally speaking is not going to do that I mean he's
historically up there from the standpoint of assist to turnover he's one of the best decision makers
and like we understand that his body is his body at this point as far as how old he is about
how much he can run up and down he's not lob city Chris Paul anymore but I think that he's a good
enough he's certainly cerebral enough but I think he's also just a good enough player where
you can play a different style when he's coming off the bench and presumably he will do that
he'll come off the bench if he's coming off the bench you can play a different tempo a lot of
your bench stuff was dictated before by Jordan Poole and so now you're replacing that you're replacing
it with someone that would play at a different tempo you can play pick and roll off the bench you
can also have Chris Paul play alongside your guys like I think Chris Paul unlike someone like a
Russell Westbrook who he's been traded for before Chris Paul will set a screen for somebody if he
needs to like it's not like he's not willing to go screen for someone it's not like he's not
willing to move off the ball he's not a great shooter anymore but he's still a good enough shooter
he's someone that in a way that fits the Golden State offense it's willing to take you take a mid-range
shot if you give it to him which the Warriors have done that when they had Kevin Durant and Clay
Thompson has done plenty of that step is done plenty of that if you're if you're selling out to make
sure he doesn't get off the three so I think he's good I do think that it's going to be interesting
to see like beyond Cavan Looney what big does he really develop a synergy with from the standpoint
of the role game that you're talking about but I think that he fits here I think he's a much better
defender even at his age than Jordan Poole ever will be maybe and and again like I don't think it's
that much to say okay when we get to our bench units we're going to play more pick and roll I think
it's fine and I think that he will fit the team very very well it's just a question of Kenny
stay healthy and if he doesn't how much then do you miss someone like Jordan Poole's scoring
an offensive production Rowan Chris brought something up about CP coming off the bench Chris
Paul has never ever come off the bench not one game in his professional career has he come off the
bench he got to the NBA played 78 games of starter better starter ever since uh do you think he's
going to be a bench player and how's that going to work in in with Chris Paul so a Chris Paul story
that he told me once that I always come back to is he told me he doesn't like flying because he
doesn't get to fly the plane he says I don't like being in I don't like situations where I'm not in
control and I I view his entire career through that context he wants to be the guy that flies the
but if he's willing to make the adjustment I think that this is a huge win for his career and it
could pay huge dividends for the Warriors again just think about it to the context of Warriors last
playoff run that game six loss against the Lakers or Clay Thompson has taken these crazy shots in
the last three or four minutes that the bench is reacting in real time why are you taking these shots
Jordan Poole is unplayable because soon as he gets on the court he's throwing the way the ball
Chris Paul is such a steadying presence you know he could play 25 minutes of game in the regular
season he doesn't have to they don't have to play super small lineups he can play alongside
step for 13 minutes play alongside clay for 13 minutes he doesn't have to close games keep him
fresh until the playoffs and then you get really weird mix and match depending on matchups
whatever you need this is where this was just the it's been a long time seven really shocked by
an NBA trade I mean this one floored me I couldn't believe it yeah um might done leave junior is
just like taking a wrecking ball he's like I know everyone here love Bob Myers but I have my own
thoughts on how we should be operating he said two time I'm not convinced I'm not convinced Bob Myers
wouldn't do the same thing yeah first year look I just think that contract became owners and it
became yeah it became a bigger deal with these new NBA rules which not only try to limit your
spending but when you do spend you lose all the levers that you can pull to to build out your bench
outside of just like second-round pick so I think Bob would have done the same thing I think
Buck Dunley was a mistake was like it was like four days ago what he's like we're going for
four years and crazy whiplash on that one I just I think Chris I think Chris can become a successful
sixth man he needs to he needs to I think he can do what and they're not the same players but
what Lou Williams did and what Jamal Crawford did all those guys did in at different phases of the
second half of their career I can do that but herring let me ask you this last one on on this
subject are they better like are all the Warriors better today than they were at the end of last
season I think so and I mean that's it hurts to say it but I also think it's just the truth about
how harmful sometimes Jordan pull was to their rotation certainly he knocked down big shots at
times certainly he reminded you at times like oh this is still Jordan pull the guy that was
incredible a season before that prompted them to give him the contract but as we talk about
this and and we've alluded to it now and and Steve Kerr alluded to it so it's not even just you
or me as analysts that the Jordan pulled Dremont green thing was real and it hovered over the team
for a while if not the whole season it it certainly bled into the star is still be hovering over them
like I don't think they're singing kumbayan hanging out at each other's houses in on the right like
and and and particularly particularly as Dremont is in a contract situation he opted out so he's
going to either re up with them or walk and so I mean that is a very real thing too that I think
you can't get past I think we had been getting the impression that the Warriors probably wanted
Dremont back certainly Bob Myers would have wanted him back and so now you at least kind of nip that
issue whatever you want to call it in the bud from that standpoint that you're going to probably
keep the core together but again Jordan pull was just not a great fit the problem with this team
last year oftentimes most of the time was the bench which was a group of young players that
light years ahead that the team thought that they could kind of meld the you know the dynasty
with the with the new classes like trying to have Zach and Kelly and Jesse from save by the bell
oh my god hey man why man I like save by the bell when I was a kid I'm sorry so did I I didn't
think you were gonna go there though with neither did I I'm surprised myself sometimes um but you
can't you can't have that be both things at the same time at least you saw out very clearly you
couldn't so they had to tear down the wiseman pick is as painful and as awkward as that was they
got essentially nothing back for him uh Jordan pull was something in the same vein he was a good
score but I don't think any team in the league was like gong ho about picking him up and less it
was a rebuilding situation and quite frankly even with the wizards now okay he's gonna score and
and I think was it was a jj reddick last night on the broadcast said he might lead the league in
scoring just because you know who else he's becoming buckets he is gonna be buckets pool next year
he's gonna be he's not gonna have any incentive to play defense which is the you know like my
fear for him is this if you weren't willing to kind of buy into that and and be a better defender
or look the part of the better defender on that team when they really needed a good buy game on the
road as we're a weird team is you got west on sale junior who I think is a good coach but he's
also not the choice of the current for an office and whenever you have that dynamic at play it makes
it a little bit awkward uh during the season I don't look at my Steven Silas' situation a little
bit as far as just the exact although they're gonna have talent it's just it's just gonna be really
weird and top heavy because let's let's think about this way so they get Jordan pool
you would just ask me pretty much straight up does it make the Warriors better so I'm telling you
I think Chris Paul and that context is more helpful than Jordan pool but their guard rotation as
right now is uh Tyas Jones they already have money uh Morris who it you know was one of the best
backups and and became a pretty solid starting guard there and now they have Jordan pool it's not
a bad guard rotation I just think it's like what is the rest of the roster going to look like
we we'll see what happens with Kuzma uh but from the standpoint that we're all expecting like they're
going to be a pretty rundown team uh but it's just not going to be a team that has balanced or
we talked about objectivity earlier it's going to be a team that if you're coaching for your job it's
a very very difficult team to coach because the the the the the thing that you're taking in the
next season is not the thought oh we're going to win somebody against we're aiming for the playoffs
they've torn the team down to a point where obviously they're not trying to even think about doing
I just don't understand why the Wizards are taking back four years worth of salary when they're
you gotta pace somebody you do but it's just is if you're going to go into the tank just a really
go into the tank you know what I mean um I guess like that but I don't like Jordan pool you're not
now we're calling Jordan pool the ultimate winner you know yeah right right we just said he's
going to be running and gunning out there uh I look I wonder how much play I'm not worried about it
yeah I mean there's also a log jam in Washington I mean they have I don't know if Davis can play
I mean giant Davis was a first round draft big a year ago I had I really haven't he wasn't even
playing last year I mean free ties those rough he ties to a wing player like he had someone they
like so it'll be interesting dynamic in Washington but I think Jordan pool if if the overrunners like
25 a game might take the over a Jordan pool points for game hey all it's Amisa and Devon here and
we've got some news for you get ready because MTV's official challenge podcast is heading back
in time for the first time ever we're diving into an iconic season from the past and what better
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like bananas versus Jordan Laura versus Kara oh and also you and I were both on it don't
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season and we'll go behind the scenes with them for the first time ever plus here what they've
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because there's no challenge on TV right now doesn't mean we're going to leave our podcast
listeners hanging listen to MTV's official challenge podcast on the iHeart Radio app
Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts last thing I want to get into is Damian
Lillard I don't want to talk about the dynamic at play the dynamic at play is what it is and what's
been for months now Damian Lillard is going to sit back and wait to see what the blazers do
during the offseason which effectively began at the draft he's going to wait to see if they could
put together a team that he believes can win and that the blazers believe can win and if they can
great he'll be back next season if they can there'll be a conversation between Lillard and Joe
Cronin about what the future what is the best for both sides in the future there is not going to be
a Damian Lillard tweet demanding a trade there's not going to be a slew of reports that says
Lillard demands a trade doesn't want to be that guy and he's not going to have to be that guy
with this team because you know they can be adult about this and both realize the direction
that they're going to go so I'll just kind of boil it down to this and Rohan we'll start with you
opening night of the 2023 2024 season what uniform is Damian Lillard wearing
so I think he's going to be wearing a blazer's uniform I really do believe that I'm just
this is reached like and I I hate to put Dwight or Damian Lillard in the same categories as
first and but it's reached like Dwight Howard levels of how how long no no no no it is not nothing
is not just in terms of how much longer are we going to do this like how many more summers are we
going to say is Damian Lillard going to ask out like they just keep tiptoeing around it and it's
also like who are they tiptoeing for literally not a single credible human being outside of like
maybe a Twitter bot is going to criticize Damian Lillard if he asks for a trade no one like not
like no one is going to like no one is going to criticize him like even if he did send a tweet
demanding a trade like literally did that everyone would be like yep that makes sense probably
should have happened a year or two ago so the fact that they just keep dancing around it um
like they they should have been negotiating starting now and my fear is they're going to enter
a you know they're going to say okay maybe we'll finally look into it the asking price is going
to be insanely high and this just gets dragged on you know teams are going to be signing players
like things are going to move quickly at the start of free agency and that that could affect this
I just don't see teams holding up their entire summer for a guy who just doesn't really want
to seem to leave Portland and we're under here and he's got a relationship with Scoot Henderson
etc. I'm just I'm just like exhausted by I don't know why this hasn't happened already and that
just doesn't seem to believe it's not going to happen even last night Joe Cronin like there's
ways to talk about it and I'm not saying that the like we just saw Mike Dunlavy Jr.
straight up lie like straight up lie to our faces so I'm not expecting Joe Cronin to go out
there and kind of give away their whole strategy but there's ways to be like you know obviously
we need to evaluate kind of what we're doing here like no none of that it's just they keep being
like we're on the same page we're it's like I'm just I'm exhausted by and which lens me to believe
like he's just going to be on the blazers Aaron I'm still laughing at the way Rahat he's like
straight up alive like he had him on more impolition he was like that you are not the father
what I will say I was a little bit surprised and I made a point of retweeting whoever put it
out there that Joe Cronin said that just because to me the first thing that it shouted is like
you're going to make if he chooses to want out of the situation you're going to make Dame
the bad guy now was the way I read that because you're saying we've made it really clear we want
Damien to finish in a blazers uniform okay you also drafted someone that as good as everyone is
expecting him to be is a rookie which nothing about that at his position at his position no less
so screams like it's going to be three four years before we're even if the guy is as good as
Dame was Dame was wonderful as a rookie but like you know everybody basically takes at least two to
three years hell Lebron you know as far as getting his team to the playoffs Carmelo I guess made
it as a rookie Donovan Mitchell was able to do that it's really rare that you get a franchise
level guy that could be your lead scorer we've had two of them that have come on to their team
and lead their team and scoring and lead them to the playoffs as a rookie it was Donovan Mitchell
it was Carmelo so I guess Lillard's there that won't be scooped this year if they're on the same
team but this is going to be like a couple years before you could even really dream of having a
contender probably next to him unless you go get someone like Zion which only could have happened
I imagined through a situation where you would have been at the top of the draft we didn't even
hear that was a possibility really so from that standpoint when Joe Kronin says we want to see
him retire as a blazer now you're putting it at Dame's doorstep to kind of be the guy to say that
he wants out I just in a certain point and man my analogies between say by the bell now this
at a certain point like some of us have been in relationships before where we just don't see it
going anywhere and you can be in the relationship for years I've been there and it's painful to
let go of something but is it more painful to do that or is it more painful to look up
down the road and be like man there were some really great moments here I really loved this person
but am I ultimately it depends on what's going to bring him the most happiness if he wants to
win a championship if he wants to at least feel what it's like to compete for that the highest level
for a couple more years not a couple more years for a couple years then he probably needs to go
somewhere else and he's not going to look like a bad guy to what Rohan said like no one's going
to view it that way because he's tried he's given it longer than he probably should have
I'd love to see him go for it but if that's not what he wants that's fine but I wasn't the biggest
fan of the fact that Joe Kronin gave an answer that kind of put the same way you were like so
so Chris do you want to see more negativity in the draft you put it in my lap on that question
Joe Kronin put it in Damien Lillard's lap yesterday and I kind of feel like that's not fair when
you draft someone at his position and I'm sure Dame knew it was going to happen if stuff shook
out that way they'd probably talk about what they were going to do if they ended up three and
scoot was there that's fine but I just kind of feel like man I if I'm Dame I didn't love that answer
just because like oh great so now if and when I do one out you're going to put it all on me
and that team has not done enough to support Dame I don't think as far as the players they've
gotten how long they waited to make certain moves what happened man I got to get off this podcast
you're just making some weird analogies left and right there they're herring
hey man relationship analogies hey man say by the bell analogies it's the off-season man I'm
leaning more into my life this is this is the life of Chris Herring this is true life MTV style
I've been watching the reality shows it is what it is you know what Joe Kronin was saying what
Joe Kronin was saying was like we want Dame Lillard here was in a way saying we are top 10
on the NBA in attendance and we want to stay that way like this is in a way keeping Lillard is
about putting butts in the seats at the motor center you trade Dame Lillard and you know there'll
be a little bump early on from scoot and some of the young pieces and you can sell that vision but
you're gonna drop precipitously but it's about the future though I mean like you could you
could get a haul for the guy to where maybe you of course you end up with more of a situation like
Brooklyn has had where Brooklyn never fully bottoms out because they you know they are
trading guys and they're getting even now they traded and got off of Katie and Kyrie Irving
which granted that's more than just Lillard but you have Mikhail Bridges and you're still not
granted that they also did it mid-season so maybe it's different than if they'd done it all year
but you have a guy that people can get excited about that is like an all-star level guy you would
probably get somebody like that back someone of that ilk and you get draft picks to go with it
and within a year or two you're hoping to get a situation where maybe you don't have a singular star
as great as Dame you're hoping scoot is that guy but maybe you're talking about a team that can
consistently make the playoffs and get deep in the playoffs as opposed to whatever this is now with
Dame it's not about one guy and I I get that it's a small market they're going to kind of blow
having one guy out of proportion it's going to be more important to them because they're not used
to having this but I don't know like I wouldn't have wanted Clyde Trexler to have the career where
he just stays in Portland his whole career either and doesn't win anything like it just at least he
was competing for a while for something he was he wasn't you right he made it to a finals but it's
just I wouldn't have made sense to have just kept him there forever and for him to not have a
different outcome and it's interesting that we haven't heard more of that comparison like you
said he made a final so maybe that's why we don't hear it but that could really be Dame's pivot
here is to go play somewhere get to a finals maybe win one and then he gets to do that and then
maybe gets to end his career in Portland we don't know but like I would love to see it and I you
know I if Dame doesn't want that it's weird to want it for him but it would be really cool to see
it for him and we could imagine that Portland would have better days ahead of them ahead of it if
they were to make that move if he wanted it yeah I think this is the year that they go their separate
ways I do I think it might take you might be into August by the time they have this conversation but
I think they'll have it and I think whenever they have it the market for Damien Lilid will be robust
yeah teams are gonna go out there and do their thing over the next few weeks they're to
sign guys but there will be teams that are gonna keep some of their powder dry when it comes to
trades in order to have players available Miami will be first on that list with Tyler hero I think
Brooklyn is the team to watch right now with with Lillard because you heard Lillard on that showtime
podcast mention the nets which surprised me a little bit because if he's gonna mention a New York
team I thought he mentioned the nicks but he mentions the nets and look I'm sure Lillard's looking
that roster going all right you can deal not straight up but Ben Simmons can be the centerpiece
of a trade involving me and if you're Portland maybe you can take a flyer on Ben Simmons his contract
isn't great but it's another year shorter and it's only got two years left on it so it's not like
you're making a five year investment in Ben Simmons and maybe you can be the team in the low
pressure situation that turns what 26 27 year old Ben Simmons around at this point so Lillard would
be looking at a net's team with McHale bridges who is a number two who is a and I say that
complimentary like he is a legit number two like that's a that's a player like he is is a star
who could be a borderline number one on some teams but Lillard you got Doreen Fitties Smith there
you've got Nick Claxton there you've got Seth Curry there you're not a super team by any stretch
but you're a playoff team in the Eastern Conference and you give yourself a shot with Lillard
and is still developing McHale bridges on that roster so that's to circle it back that's my
prediction I think he winds up in Brooklyn I think he wants the net the nets have like 11 draft picks
over the next six years or something like that they can deal they got the draft capital they've
got a young player in Ben Simmons who may be more appealing to Portland than Tyler Hero who's got
I think the full what the full five years left on his contract or four years left on his contract
so I I think the nets are are in the the pole position if Lillard ultimately gets traded
he's got I think he's he's got to get to Miami and I'm not just saying that as a homer but if he
wants if he wants if he wants to win a title just get to Miami and you I'm sure you will provide
win with lots on Lillard's a little to my end wow wow wow this podcast is on the rail it's
for the intro it's gone should there be more negativity to the draft Rohan saying my stuff would
say by the bell what are we yeah more you're feelings there you're you're you're deep deep dive
you do yeah man so let's say that was a lot she doesn't listen right all right we will be back
early next week hope you have some more activity in the NBA on the dawn of francy which is just about
a week away