Denver Sweeps L.A. & LeBron's Future

And we are back! Cross over NBA podcast. I am Chris Manix in Los Angeles, where Lakers have gone home or Denver Nuggets completing a four-game sweep on Monday night, knocking off the Lakers. Despite a pretty impressive performance from LeBron James in that one, we'll get into that game in New York. Chris Herring, senior writer over SI, has got a great story up on SI.com right now, and exclusive with Carmelo Anthony, who announced his retirement from the NBA on Monday. Carmelo spoke at length to Chris about that. I encourage you to check that out over at SI.com. And in Miami, fresh off South Beach, ready for game four of the NBA Conference Finals, Roan Narkani. Fellas, what's going on? Roan, how are you feeling this morning? Listen, I'm in the sports capital of the world, Manix. What doesn't Miami have going for right now? The Panthers are up 3-0 in the Conference Finals, the heater up 3-0 in the Conference Finals. Messi is going to sign with Inter Miami. I think the Marlins are leading the MLB in one-run win games. This is it. It's all happening. I think we had an F1 race here a few weeks ago. You can't ask for much more. All right, we're going to talk a little bit about the heat-seltic series. I do. I don't know. I thought Roan was going to throw in the welcome to Miami song from 25 years ago. I just decided to move past that. I decided whatever he was talking about. My eyes kind of glazed over. You guys have one. Check it out. I just didn't care. I just didn't care. I was sitting next to Nick Fardell for ESPN during game one of the South Xeet series. That first half is going on. The South Xe rolling. They're up by double digits. They could have been up even more. I was thinking about texting you being like, there's no way Miami peace is lost. There's no way. Then the whole thing just completely unraveled from there. We'll talk more about that series specifically. He buzzed around Joe Missoula, the South Xe coach who is on thin ice. It seems like right now in Boston. But I want to start talking about what we saw in Los Angeles on Monday night. The nuggets, your nuggets, Roan, defeating the Lakers in four games, a tremendous performance in that game from the Cole Yokech who has 30 points, a triple double, his eighth triple double in this postseason that moves him past Wilte Chamberlain on the list for the most triple doubles in a playoff. That's a decades old record that Nicole Yokech just zoomed past. He still has at least four games to go to add to that list. We're going to get to the Lakers side of it specifically LeBron. But Denver has been one of those teams that has long believed it has been disrespected. That Nicole Yokech doesn't get the respect he deserves as a superstar player that they don't get the respect they deserve as one of the great teams in the NBA. Roan did Denver prove something in this series with the Lakers? Yeah, I definitely think that they are turning the tides in terms of the national discourse about them, the awareness about them. I went to Denver last March to write about kind of the Yokech, but also this phenomenon. Like Yokech won when he won his second MVP, he still didn't get a Christmas day game. It's not really Hook Front and Center by the NBA in many ways. I think that they realize that. When I talk to Michael Malone that day, he's like, listen, it's not a rallying cry. We're not expecting to be the first segment on first take every day. But we also think that we have one of the best players in the NBA, and we're not getting any kind of respect for that. I think when you're in a matchup with the Lakers and you play the way Yokech did, I think this was the first time. A lot of casual fans, a lot of people who are even bigger NBA fans just don't get a chance to watch the Nuggets play, right? Like they play. They're kind of more of a West Coast team. Their games are on late. They don't have a ton of national games. They had a Christmas day game this year, but it wasn't the marquee one. So I definitely think that they are starting to not only win over fans, but even people who are like, why did Yokech win two MVPs? That was an analytics MVP. The nerds won him that, et cetera. The fact that he's had this, it's a historic playoff run. He's averaging a triple double. This is something I'm probably going to write about. We're obviously in a little bit of an era where stats are higher than they've ever been before, but you could put his playoff run up with the best of KD's, the best of Steph's, LeBron's, I mean, you name the NBA great. He's right up there with any of them. So I definitely think that I don't know how much longer Malone's going to be able to play that nobody respects his card. I think a lot of people are going to pick them to win the finals no matter who they're playing. And I think a lot of people now are seeing why Yokech won those two MVPs. Well, the nobody respects Yokech card never really made a lot of sense. You won two straight MVPs. Like, you are respected. You are noticed by the voters. Herring, I look at the nuggets as being a proof of concept of a couple of things. One, the draft works. Like, if you draft well, you are going to have success. They draft the Cole Yokech in the second round. That was as brilliant a pick as it was lucky, but they get him to be the tent pole of that team. They draft Jamal Murray. They draft Michael Porter Jr. When Michael Porter Jr. had about a dozen red flags around him because of that back, and they stuck by him and he was excellent during, it has been excellent during these playoffs. They're a testament to the process, the draft process and seeing that play out and developing players internally. They're also a testament to not having kind of knee jerk reactions when things go a little bit bad. I mean, Jamal Murray gets hurt. They don't look for a replacement for Jamal Murray. They patiently wait for him to come back and become the Jamal Murray of old. And he was outstanding in this series. He shot better than 50% in three of the four games of this series. They were 25 points in the clincher, made big shots in previous games. They also stood by Michael Malone over the last few years. I mean, Malone, at different times, you know, there has been speculation that maybe he wasn't the right guy to coach this team. And firing the coach, as we've seen during this cycle, is the easiest thing to do. Things go wrong. Can the coach? Butenowser, you're out. Doc Rivers, take a hike. It would have been very easy for Tim Conley and then later Calvin Booth to let go of Michael Malone and bring somebody else in. But they stuck by him. He has had a great postseason. And I think it's just proof that if you're just a little bit patient and you trust that the coach you hired is the right one and that you trust the players you drafted are the right guys, stuff like this can happen. Because this is not only a team built to win a championship this year, this is a sustainable team for years to come. I mean, I think you nailed a lot of it on the head. And really, because we're far removed away from a lot of it, it's easy to forget some of the context. I think you could actually start a lot of it with the Michael Porter thing. Michael Porter for a lot of people was thought to be a guy that could be in contention for the number one pick. He obviously had the back issues. He falls to what was it, 14th. The Nuggets had almost made the playoffs. The Nuggets knocked out in the last game of the regular season that year. But I think Minnesota, Jimmy Butler, Minnesota team. And so they end up getting basically the very end of the lottery because they're the last team not to make the playoffs. And they take Michael Porter who that's a risky move. When you're in at that point, basically when now mode you've got a star, a guy that is on the cusp of becoming a superstar at that point in the Oak Ridge. You might look for the most stable guy, which is not going to be someone that has back problems, is not going to be someone that, aside from his, his gate and his stature, might struggle to really hunch down and play defense. Maybe isn't the most well rounded player, but a guy that has a ton of upside. So you get him. I think about patience from the standpoint of how many people have complained and critiqued Kawhi and Derek Rose and all these other guys that sat out a little bit longer than people were used to, maybe not even a little bit longer, a lot longer than people were used to from the standpoint of a major injury and not coming. By the way, Derek Rose and Kawhi Leonard have both had multiple injuries now. I won't say because they came back earlier than they should have, but maybe it was just their bodies. The same thing could have happened to Jamal Murray if he'd come back too soon. And he took some scrutiny and quite frankly, I think a lot of people were wondering why isn't he back when the team has cleared him. So there's that. There's the stuff about Malone who, as you suggested with the rest of the cycle, Michael Malone has been short circuited before from the standpoint of Sacramento, who just now made the playoffs, you know, just now this season, but had a pretty decent run. I thought going with Sacramento, I think most people thought that and was kind of axed over, you know, the fact that the Marcus Cousins got sick essentially and the team tailspend while it happened. So that Yokech and the idea of him needing to get into shape, you know, and then he did it. And then, and then the team is, you know, outlasting the Lakers and Yokech is running up and down for a racing up and down the floor off every miss as a two time MVP, a guy that could have won three in a row. And I think what we're now seeing to go full circle with this, so many people were critiquing the idea of like, well, you can't give the MVP to a guy that would give him three in a row because that hasn't happened in 40 years. What stratosphere are you putting him in if he wins a third straight MVP? I think what we're going to find out really soon is that he deserves to be in that stratosphere. I think a lot of us kind of saw that happening already. The only thing that was missing was the championship and like he looks very well on his way to accomplishing that this year. It might be the first of a few. And then it doesn't look like it always looks silly until it actually happens. The hype around people. Michael Jordan went through it where people wanted to call him the best ever, but he hadn't won a championship. And there's a YouTube video of Pat Riley interviewing Michael Jordan. He was like, will you take it as an affront? Like if you don't win one, like, will you feel lesser to yourself if you don't win one because some people are calling you the greatest ever? And he's like, well, you know, like, no, it won't take away from what I've done. But of course I want to win one. Then he wins six. It always, there has to be a starting place for all this stuff. It generally requires a lot of patience. It requires making a lot of the right calls. His team knocked it out of the park last offseason with KCP and the idea of getting off of Barton and going to go get KCP. Monty Morris was one of my favorite players in the league to watch one of the best backup guards. That was big to let him go to go get KCP and not to mention the Bruce Brown signing, which I think I know Rohan loved. I thought it was the single best signing of the offseason. I think I said that as the offseason was still happening. So they've knocked it out of the park in so many regards. They clearly look like the most complete team to me, even if they lose to the heap or Boston, I guess it's possible. I still might come away saying at this point based on what I've seen that this was just the most complete team and that they should run it back, even if they somehow lose. You know, I feel like it would be something weird that they would lose over because it's not going to be because of their roster, what they didn't have. This is a really complete team. I love the question for you guys. Let me just say, I love the Porter Jr. pick at the time. That was, you know, Tim Conley was in charge then and I completely got his mindset there. It's like we're drafting 14th. If we go a traditional route and take the guy that without Porter Jr. is the highest ranked guy on our board, what are the chances he turns into a success? Look at the guys drafted around there. Some of the good players, I think Troy Brown was either a pick or two after that. Dante D'Vincenzo was in that draft, but no player with the upside of Michael Porter Jr. Think about it. Like the Clippers had the two picks prior to that. They drafted, they did a trade where they got Shay Guildes Alexander with one of those picks, which was excellent smart pick. And then they take Jerome Robinson with that next pick. Look, I went to Boston College. I saw a lot of Boston College games. I could have told you then that Jerome Robinson was not going to make it the NBA. He was not a NBA kind of talent. Imagine where the Clippers would be right now. If with their second pick in the first round, not their only pick, their second pick in the first round, they had used it to take a flyer on Michael Porter Jr. The way this team was settled. The team was taking at that point, right? Absolutely, absolutely. And the nuggets, they have just pushed the right button time and time again. Do you guys think there's any doubt right now that Yogech is the best player in the NBA? No, no, no. I mean, you said do, is there any doubt at this point? Is that your question? Is there anyone that you're saying taken over him right now? No, I don't think you can. I mean, it's, I know Janis is probably doing the office, the look in, you know, to the camera from the office where he's like, yo, I missed half my series and I still did my job. This isn't on me. Yogech, Yogech isn't throwing the ball out of bounds with two seconds left though to avoid shooting. But I mean, let's, let's be honest, it doesn't come down to a single play, but I also think Yogech could do the same look into the camera from the office from just the last couple of years of like, so what do you mean? I've won MVP two years in a row, could have won it was more efficient in year three. My team was the one seed in year three, like every general metric of like who usually wins the award, I would still fit that criteria. It's that Isaiah thing from the last dance where he was like, I fit the criteria, but I wasn't picked or whatever it was. Yogech can easily say that too. So I think that there are a couple of people that can claim it. I'm sure Steph, if he's healthy, feels like he still should be in the conversation based on having won it last the title last year. But I think Yogech deserves it at this point. Like he's been waiting in line from, for the majority of most people. But he, I mean, he deserves it and dominating the way he has the fact that there's been no defensive answer for him and that it's very much like a pick your poison sort of defense. You've got to play against him and his team. This was the missing piece for so many people of the idea of like, yeah, but can he win on the biggest stage and he's doing that and he to do it in a sweep. I didn't see that coming against this Lakers team and that the type of defense that the Lakers play I've been really impressed even as someone that already thought that he would have been a worthy 30. I didn't pick him, but a worthy third time MVP if he had won it. I think a lot of us didn't say that. Giannis failed this season. No matter what he says, he failed this season. I understand that he missed a couple of the games, but he played in full length, two of them and they lost. Like they lost those games. I know he was banged up, but everybody's banged up at this stage. What I would say about Yokich is that to this point, he has never failed with a team that had a chance to win a championship. The last few years he has been on playoff teams, but none of those teams did I think had a real chance to win a championship. The bubble team, still a little bit young in experience, not quite ready for prime time. 2021, Jamal Murray goes out like half an hour before the playoffs were going to start. He misses all of the next season. Michael Porter Jr. is about injuries the last couple of years. Only this season, this was the first time that Yokich has had the kind of talent around him where if he didn't elevate it, then it would have been a failure for him. Just the same way it was a failure for Giannis, the same way, honestly, it was a failure for Joellen Bead. If Yokich had come up short, it would have been a failure for him, but he hasn't. In fact, he's done the opposite. He has thrived. He has dominated. He has been a much better defensive player than people have given him credit for. He has been an absolutely supernatural offensive player who is making shots that you can't do on a court by yourself. You can't pull the ball over your head and make those shots. You give me a hundred of those shots. I couldn't make them by myself. Yokich is making them in the first and second half of a clincher in the NBA postseason. This to me, Yokich is the best player in the NBA and he's created, I think, a little bit of separation for himself because of his play in this postseason. Let's now talk about what emerged as a bigger story on Monday night, which is LeBron James dropping hints that he may retire to recap kind of what happened at that press conference after the game. LeBron multiple times declined to address next season. Go into next season. Then on the last question he was asked, which really had nothing to do with next season, LeBron came out and said, I've got a lot to think about my basketball future. Subsequently, a report from Chris Haynes from Bleacher Report T&T came out that said LeBron James is contemplating retirement. That was no accident. That was no mistake. That was pre-written for whatever this happened with the Lakers were ultimately eliminated. So I've got some thoughts on this, but, Rowan, we'll start with you. What did you make of LeBron's hints that he may not be back next year? Yeah, a lot to unpack there. First of all, I just want to quickly point out how we've entirely glossed over the idea that Manic's was going to take this massive victory lap that the Lakers were winning the finals and we have somehow gone. I mean, you know what though, but he made it pretty far in that race. He did. He did. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. He made it to the West of America. LeBron has a contract for next year. I understand the thinking at the time. You take that talking point off the table. You take a potential distraction away from the team. It was still surprising to see him do that. LeBron has a contract for next year. It's only for next year. He's going to want the Lakers to put top tier talent around him. The future of the team be damned. That could mean Kyrie Irving. We just watched D'Angelo Russell scuffle through the conference finals. He couldn't make a shot. D'Angelo Russell can't make a shot. He's useless because he can't defend anybody either. Bruce Brown, way to go Bruce Brown. He's like D'Angelo Russell can't defend anybody or whatever he said there. Dead on accurate. LeBron might be looking at next season and saying, look, the mindset of the Lakers this offseason might be just to bring the band back together. To resign D'Angelo Russell to some kind of contract, to bring back Austin Reeves on a pricey contract, to bring back Ruby Hashimora on a contract, and to build on the chemistry that this team built over the final couple of months of the season. LeBron might be looking at that and go, I don't know. You know, this team was pretty good, but Denver's not going anywhere. Memphis will be back. The Warriors will probably be back. He might be looking at that situation and saying, we need to do something big. We need to roll the dice and go after somebody. And that somebody is probably Kyrie Irving. Kyrie is the one guy. Look, LeBron knows he can win a championship with Kyrie Irving. He knows it. He's done it. He's at his best, and we can debate how often he's at his best. At his best is still an elite guard in this league. So I can certainly believe that LeBron, who, by the way, Kyrie was at game four on Monday night, I can believe that LeBron would want to play with Kyrie Irving. I can also understand the Lakers having no interest in bringing in Kyrie Irving because Kyrie, if he comes to LA, is not coming on a one-year deal. He's going to come on a three or a four-year deal. And LeBron, for being honest, doesn't give a damn about what happens to the Lakers after next season. It's all about next season for LeBron, and then he figures out what Bronnie's going to do, where Bronnie's going to play, and how that puzzle kind of fits together in his career. He's worried about next year. And if he believes that his best chance to win a championship is to play with Kyrie Irving, this is a way to exert leverage. He can save the Lakers. Look, I don't need your money. I make plenty off the court. I've made billions, more than a billion, in my playing career. I'll just walk away if you don't do what I want you to do. That was one of the first things that popped into my head. LeBron is too competitive to not want to play basketball. He's playing at too high a level to not want to play basketball. But we have seen in the past LeBron exert leverage through his contractual status. And to me, Roland, that felt like part of what he was doing in that moment. Definitely. And that's hard to ignore, especially when he doesn't have, as you mentioned, the same leverage as he's had previously in his career. Usually he has that I'm an expiring situation to help. I mean, he has that to an extent here, but it's a little bit different when he's at the age, he's at, et cetera. It is interesting. Not only was Kyrie Irving at the game, Trey Young was at the game. But I think that's what's called the athletic report. That's someone who the Lakers have already had internal discussions about. I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't do that. I don't think so. Trey is like Kyrie Lite, but Trey has some free I think in the postseason. I agree. I don't think that would be as good of a move. I think the... I understand why you have the discussion, right? Because as you mentioned, how often is Kyrie at his best? Do you maybe think someone like Trey Young is more trustworthy, more gettable, et cetera? I do think the Lakers are in a fascinating position with their roster, because only I think they have about six guys who are under contract next season. They're going to have to figure out contracts for Ruihachi Murrah, for Austin Reeves, figure out what they're going to do with D'Angelo Russell. I think we're all on the same page that this team would probably like to upgrade from D'Angelo Russell, but does that mean you let them walk? Does that mean you do a sign and trade? That they are in a little bit of a crossroads off season because there are opportunities for them to improve the roster certainly. We've seen Rob Plink and now do four or five makeovers of this team. Sometimes they've been great. Other times they've been really problematic and hurt the team. So they're in a bit of an interesting situation here because they have to nail this summer. And I do think LeBron is keeping a close eye. Let's put it this way. If they swing some incredible trades and upgrade the roster, LeBron's coming back. He's not leaving the Lakers if they make the team better. So I definitely think there's an element here of, you know, he wants to put some pressure again on the front office to make sure that they can take the next step. That is a very good thing. That's what he said though about the fact that like, I can't help but watch KCP like shoot daggers into the Lakers and Alex Crusoe making first team all NBA defense. Rob Palinka, like sure, credit for turning this team around midseason. I certainly wondered if a lot of that could have been done sooner to not exert as much pressure physically on LeBron and AD having to play back to back all of a sudden at the end of the season because you need to get in to the postseason. They've had opportunities where LeBron's input was used before with regards to Westbrook. So I understand LeBron being like, I'm LeBron. So be it because of that. You need to kind of make me happy to placate me more or less to appease. I'm taking quite a deep breath if I'm the Lakers and you're essentially holding a gun to my head saying I need to sign Kyrie for a long term deal in light of the fact that I've done this before. Now granted, Kyrie is a better basketball player than Westbrook, but he's not reliable either from the standpoint of putting the team first. Maybe he would be happier in that situation, but there were times he was unhappy in New York playing with one of his closest friends in Katie. So we'll see what happens, but it's just in light of what you're saying, Chris, the idea of it's literally about next year for LeBron. And then after that, it's more about his situation with his family, his son. Okay, then great. If I know that and that's essentially what you're signaling and maybe even telling the Lakers and maybe telling the basketball world as a whole, I'll be damned if I'm signing Kyrie to four years based on that for one year. Good luck. I don't think I want to be beholden to him for that long. So I don't know. It just doesn't make sense to me if I'm the Lakers. I'm probably going to, I don't know if I'm going to call a bluff, but I'm certainly going to have the conversation as opposed to just blindly signing that. And I think Rob Palenco would be smart to do the same thing. Yeah, two years ago, they made that Westbrook deal in part because LeBron pushed for it. And that turned out to be catastrophic. Like that turned out to set the Lakers back a couple of years. So to your point, they corrected it. Rob Palenco deserved credit for that. But now they find themselves perhaps in almost the same situation where to get a player, the caliber of Kyrie Irving, you're going to have to gut the roster. You're going to have to let Rui Hashimor walk. You're going to have to move off D'Angelo Russell. You're going to have to, I don't know what it means for Austin Reeves. Can they afford Austin Reeves if he gets a $100 million contract from somebody that they have to match? What's the minute difficult situation? I think if you're the Lakers, you got to find a middle ground. You say to LeBron, all right, we'll find a replacement for D'Angelo Russell. We'll find somebody more reliable offensively than D'Angelo Russell's. You don't have such a burden going into every class. We can't just blow up our team to bring in Kyrie Irving. We can't do it because if we don't succeed next year, our next three years after that are just, they're just a disaster. They're a wasteland, you know, trying to rely on Kyrie who, look, whatever you think about Kyrie, and I think deep down, he's a good guy. I don't think he's a bad person, but he did detonate LeBron's last run in Cleveland. He was part of the toxicity that ended the Celtics chances of doing anything. He blew up a nets team that was what, 21 or something like that in the last 20-some-odd games that Kevin Durant had played in with Kyrie Irving because he couldn't get the contract. He didn't get the contract that he liked from Brooklyn. So it's just a major risk for the Lakers to make, but that's how I read this guys. Like I just, you know, I don't think LeBron wants to stop playing. I think it's a very perating. You know, and I think, you know, in the coming days and weeks because things tend to get out of his camp in every so often, they tend to leak out. We'll, uh, we'll start to hear more and more about the fit for Kyrie Irving with the least- He's not walking away. He's definitely not walking away. He's not walking away. We're all in agreement. Yeah, I do. Yeah, I do. Last thing, LeBron, you're going to be at Heat Celtics later tonight. We'll talk about the Heat if they close this thing out a little bit later in the week, but as far as the Celtics go, it is now widely assumed that Joe Missoula is going to be the fall guy for this. I guess the question is, should he be? Should Joe Missoula take the fall for a four or a five game exit by the Celtics? This is an interesting one because it- Let's say they had lost in seven in a close game to Philly. I don't think people are scapegoating Missoula the way they are. This series where they're down three-oh, obviously facing elimination. Listen, obviously I was at game three and it was- Immediately people were like, is this team quitting? It was kind of baffling to watch that third quarter. They start with a Marcus Smart and one and cut the lead to 12 and people are like, okay, here we go. This is going to be a game. Then the Heat, I think at one point, stretched the lead to 30 in that same quarter. After the game, I think what really is also weirdly hurting Missoula here is I don't think he's been able to strike the right tone in his post-game press conferences. He had this post-game press conference after game three where he was like, it's all on me, it's my fault. He kept kind of repeating that. But in a way that didn't feel authentic to him, I'm not saying he was disingenuous, but I just- What makes me nervous if I'm the Celtics is if they get rid of Missoula, we're not looking for our fourth coach in 40 years, I believe. They went Stevens, you go, Missoula, now you're looking for someone else. I just come back to this is a better team than last year. This is a better team than the team that beat the Heat last year. They have almost the entire rotation back with the healthier Rob Williams and you've added Malcolm Brodden. This should not be happening. At the end of the day, this should not be happening. That Philly team, I thought Boston was a lot better than them. That series should not have gone seven games. They should not have gone six games against the Hawks who are not even a real seven seed. For the defense to have slipped as much as it has slipped, I don't think he's been on point with the rotations. I mean, why were we getting Peyton Pritchard minutes in the first game instead of Grant Williams? Not using Rob Williams down the stretch of game two. There's so much that goes into coaching that we can't really sit here and say we know all of it, but this is result has not been good enough for the Celtics. Again, it would have been one thing if it was close, but for them to have not been competitive with their backs against the wall, I think it's saying a lot. I think Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum, neither of them looked quite happy after Game 3, and obviously, but Jalen especially seemed to really be questioning. He called it flat out embarrassing. I think that it makes sense to let go of Missoula, especially when you consider the coaching talent that's available. Frank Vogel, Nick Nurse, Mike Boudenholzer, there's people with championship experience on the coaching market. If you're making the decision to stick with Tatum and Brown, which I think you almost have to do, you have to find an edge somewhere else with the way the cap is being set up and you, CBA, et cetera. And if you can go get a coach with championship experience, guys who might be able to build out better staffs, I think you have to do that because it's going to give you a much better chance to win. Well, you mentioned build out better staffs and I've been. It's like a skeleton crew. What is with that? That's been a major issue for the Celtics because the brain drain within that coaching staff has been significant. Ime Udoka is gone. His brain power was not replaced. Will Hardy gone? His brain power not replaced. Damon Stautemier leaves mid-season. His brain power is not replaced. The front of the bench guys are just not as experienced as other teams front of the bench guys. You're talking about Ben Sullivan kind of being the most experienced coach on that staff right now. That's been a major issue. And that is a fault of Brad Stevens as the team president. I know Brad tried at different points. He recruited Frank Vogel, tried to get Frank Vogel with the joint Missoula staff before the start of the season. But Vogel is still getting paid by the Lakers, didn't want to uproot his family and come back to Boston for all that. I get it. But that's been an issue here. Like getting out coached by Eric Spolstra, that happens. Eric Spolstra is the best coach in the NBA. But I think not having high level assistance on that staff, especially when you are a first time head coach, 34 years old in just what your fourth year coaching in the NBA. It's an impossible task. It's an impossible ask for a coach to do. I believe all things considered, Joe Missoula has done an excellent job this year. He took over this team days before the start of training camp. He kept the trains running on time. Look, that Philadelphia series maybe say it should have ended earlier, but it ended in a positive wave with the Celtics in part because before Game 6, Joe Missoula reinserted Rob Williams into the starting lineup. At a half time of Game 7, the Celtics made a conscious decision to attack Joel and beat on pick and rolls. And those two decisions contributed to winning. So if we're going to pick pile on Joe Missoula, you've got to get in credit for the positive things that he's done with the team. It will be interesting, Rohan, to see if the, as you said, the number of coaches out there on the marketplace right now has an impact on the self. So they feel they've got a chance at getting a Nick Nurse. Do they immediately cut ties with Joe Missoula and try to start a conversation with Nick Nurse? Frank Vogel's got a long time relationship with Brad Stevens. Is he the right fit for this team? He's got championship experience. One thing you also have to remember too is that Joe Missoula is the closest thing that Brad Stevens has to approach. You know, Brad Stevens plucked him off that bench in what Fairmont State added him to his coaching staff, made sure he stayed on that coaching staff when E-mail Doca took over, kept Danny Ainge from stealing him when, will Hardy took that job and then elevated him when the time came to hire a head coach to replace E-mail. There's a level of loyalty there, Chris, from Brad Stevens to Joe Missoula. I think that can't be overlooked when it comes time to make a decision about his future. So obviously, Chris, I'm always willing to defer to you from the standpoint of the Celtics here at your time around them and just in Boston and everything. But even before we got into the brain drain part of it, to me, this kind of screams, and yes, he's been, Eric Spulser is coach circles around him in this series. I think it's fair to say that. But to me, like Rohan's point with the fact that they could have easily lost around before, this kind of screams to me that you bring him back and that you're making some decisions for him with regards to his staff. I had forgotten about the Will Hardy exodus. Obviously, that's a really big one as well. Damon Stottamar was within the season, which is rare, that coaches leave your staff in the middle of the season and then not necessarily replace those people. The E-mail you dook a thing, as you said, was basically on the eve of training camp. So it's been an unusual situation from that standpoint. Joe Missoula's very young. And like you just mentioned, the amount of investment that Brad Stevens has put in him, I think, is reason alone to stick with him. Unless Brad's got a really good relationship or a really great respect for one of these many coaches that have become available recently. I'm sure he does. But at a certain point, if you feel like loyalty and stuff like that matters, you went out on a little bit of a limb to implant this person as the coach in the midst of the E-mail you dook a stuff knowing that there was a good chance he would become your permanent coach. You went out on a limb for him from the standpoint of some of the stuff in Joe Missoula's past maybe not being the most compatible with regards to the stuff that he made you dook was essentially being let go for. And answer for him, and Bouch didn't say, I know him personally, I know the kind of person that he's become. And I'd like to think that that's in the past. You're doing a lot for someone that you would be willing to let go of in one year because he didn't really perform well in the conference finals in his first go round as a 34 year old. Okay. Especially when we're looking at the fact that his bench is not really rounded out with really, really veteran guys compared to what Spolstra has or being able to go toe to toe with someone like Spolstra in your first go round. I would expect that you bring him back and that you years from now look and you realize that maybe you have a Spolstra on your hands if you're fortunate. But I'd be a little surprised they move on from him despite there being some really great coaching candidates out there. Well, Steven Silas is, I think almost a lock to beyond that bench next year. He's got strong Boston ties, obviously family. He was born, I think in Providence and he's exactly what that team needs. A former head coach, a lot of assistant coaching experience. He's got the kind of personality I think that would fit in well alongside Joe Missoula. So I think Steven Silas, maybe it's somebody else along those lines, just beef up the front of the bench staff to give him the sounding boards that he needs. But Roan, I do think when the obit of the Celtics season is eventually written, we're going to talk about whether or not the Celtics overreacted to the E-Mayu Doka situation. Because what the Celtics deemed worthy of a basketball death penalty, what they deemed worthy of effectively a firing was not viewed the same way by the NBA and was not viewed the same way by every other team that's out there. E-Mayu Doka, if not for the Kyrie Irving spectacle early in the season, would most likely be the coach of the Brooklyn Nets right now. E-Mayu Doka was the first coach hired when the coaching market opened up and Houston had a vacancy. They jumped on him before anybody else could. The NBA, Adam Silver, came out and said publicly, we have no issue with the E-Mayu Doka coaching and NBA team next year. The Celtics reacted differently. It's unclear exactly why, but their decision to part ways with a high-level head coach that took that team to the finals and had clearly built a connection with the players in that tournament. A young guy. A connection, by the way, that still exists to this day. You still have players in that locker room, I promise you, that are still asking themselves, did E-May deserve it? Did E-May deserve to get canned for what he did? I'm not here to defend the morality of it or any of it, but could the Celtics have gotten away with a 15-game suspension or a short suspension that kept E-Mayu Doka on the bench? If they did, would they be in a different situation than they were today? I'm telling you, E-May, at the very least, at various times during this playoffs, would have publicly excoriated his team. He would have gone after them for sloppiness, for laziness, for the lack of connectivity. Stuff that Joe Missoula really isn't comfortable doing because he doesn't have the cache or the NBA background that E-Mayu Doka has. So, Rowan, I honestly think that. Does that look a certain way if he does that? I'm sorry, I know I interrupt to do that, I didn't mean to do that. But now, even if he does develop that, does it feel weird? Does it feel inauthentic to the players when he tries to do more of that? I don't think he leveraged it. Look, Joe knows who he is and he knows he's not a former NBA player with Greg Popovich's staff on his resume. That's what E-Mayu Doka had going for him when he took this Celtics job, and that's what enabled him to go out and just blast away on these guys on a nightly base in the first two months of the season. I don't think Joe Missoula will ever develop that. I think Joe Missoula is cut out of the same cloth that Brad Stevens is because Brad Stevens also never went after his crimes. Also, often took the blame on himself when things went south. I think, Rowan, that is what Joe Missoula is and what he's always going to be. For sure. And that's where I'm saying there's so much that goes into coaching that we can never really fully quantify is there's a huge personal dynamic here where you had Marcus Smart at the start of the season questioning why you Doka was fired. We know you Doka and Jalen Brown are very close. I'm sure to an extent, and maybe this has gone away, but I'm sure to an extent the Celtics players have felt like we're playing with the substitute teacher all year and why? Like why have we been forced to play with the substitute teacher all year? Someone who wasn't really ready for this position when he very first got the job. I'm sure let's say you Doka had somehow left for another job. The first assistant on that bench that would have been promoted is Will Hardy, who by the way is like a spectacular coach and I'm sure that they again the Celtics didn't really have control of when the Doka stuff came out, etc. Like you said, they had to make the switch very soon before the start of the season. Will Hardy is fantastic. I think well loved, just a home run higher for Utah and I think would have done a much better job with this team because I think he's even just a better personality fit with some of the guys, you know, Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown. I think that his style probably lends itself better to coaching this team. And that's what maybe worries me most about Missoula. Like we can get to the X's and O's all that, you know, should he be using his timeouts, etc. I'm just not sure that he's the right personality for Tatum and Brown in this stage of their career. It'd be one thing if they were younger and didn't have the playoff experience that they had, but you know, this is a team with championship aspirations and it's very hard to throw a coach, I think like Missoula into the mix. You know, think about when Eric Spolster started or Brad Stevens started, they had time to grow with those teams and to make them into what they became, you know, obviously Eric Spolster took over when Dwayne Wade was still on the heat, but that was a young team. They had like Mario Chalmers and Michael Beasley. Like, this is a whole different beast that Jones Elizabeth has been kind of asked to wrestle with. And I just wonder more than anything, if they need kind of that strong personality or at least someone with a cache, Frank Volga was coach LeBron and won a championship with him. Nick Nurse is coach Kawhi and won a championship with him. Budyn holds her with Giannis. Johnny Williams has been around Katie, Chris Paul, like to me, there's like a personal dynamic here that we can't quantify and we'll never really fully know. But for me, it doesn't appear to be a fit. Yeah, I don't know if, look, I think part of E-Mayodoka's connection was that he was an ex player was that, you know, nobody grew up watching E-Mayodoka games like, wasn't that level of player, but they know he was part of, you know, the San Antonio teams. They know what he did. They knew his history. They knew his background. So I don't know if there's any guarantee that Nick Nurse steps into that locker room and gains its respect. I don't know if there's any guarantee Frank Volga steps in that locker room and gains its respect. In fact, I think it's just as likely that Joe Missoula, you know, regains it with the right staff around him, with the right pieces around him. Money limbs might be a little bit different. Money limbs has always been kind of a players coach and had some great connections with teams that his coaches, DeAndre Eton, notwithstanding. But he has always been that type of coach. So maybe that works out, but I think it's going to be a difficult decision because Joe Missoula has the basketball mind to be a great NBA coach. Everyone knows this. Danny Angel do this. That's why he wanted to bring Joe Missoula onto that staff in Utah. And Brad Stevens obviously knows it. He's always worked so hard to develop Joe Missoula as a head coach. He was put into an impossible situation, an impossible situation. And I think he's largely thrived in it, right? Like he was third in the coach of the year voting this year. They're now in the conference finals, albeit one game away from getting swept in it. There are some things that need to be addressed. I don't necessarily need to be addressed just by firing Joe Missoula, Chris. When I say that in a year where we've watched Monty Williams lose his job, we've watched Mike Boudenhulzer, which I think says a lot about the state of the game, that was it two years ago, three years ago that he won a championship. And now we're, you know, we were expecting him to lose his job. But like we kind of knew it that it would probably happen. We watched Doc and on down the line, Frank Vogel after he won his championship, we've come to expect this, even if you win a championship that buys you maybe two years. If you don't win one and you're kind of at the mountaintop repeatedly close to the mountaintop and you don't make it, you know, Monty Williams took a team that had not made the playoffs in however long and then got them to the finals in his second full year with them. And now we're looking at him, you know, looking for a gig, but Joe Missoula somehow within all these would still be the biggest surprise to me, even in light of them potentially getting swept by an eight seed just because of all the stuff you've said about the Brad Stevens connection, the fact that he feels an investment in him. He knew what it was to put anybody in that role after the email. You don't get stuff. This is a team that has championship aspirations. They were only two wins shy of winning it last year. You chose to put someone that young, that inexperienced in that role. This is what you were signing up for on some level. It looks like they're going to come up short, but if you feel like he's got all those qualities and he takes after you that he learned from you, at a certain point, we're going to have to start pointing more fingers at Brad Stevens and you raised the question already of like, were they too harsh with the email you don't get situation. I imagine that was not just Brad Stevens decision. Him and with Grouse Bix sat there and that press coverage and took a lot of questions. It's not just him, but I would be stunned if they let go of Joe Missoula. I think you have to be willing to let people grow in a certain situation. Again, I point to Eric Spolstra. That was obviously different given who was on that roster in Miami. I think it says a lot about an organization. Frankly, about a culture, if you're trying to develop one and trying to rid it of certain problems with the email you don't get situation, that you allow people to grow into roles. At least let them fail, really fail and not just in one season where it was someone's first season coaching the team. We'll see. I'm going to be fascinated by what happens. I would understand them making a move, but I don't necessarily know that it would be the right move for them to do that. If you really truly believe in Joe Missoula, and we'll obviously find out pretty soon whether that's the case or not. They also just gave, not that it matters that much, but they gave Joe Missoula multi-year contract, mid-season syndrome tag off him. They have invested in Joe Missoula as well. You mentioned Wick Grossbeck. I think he's going to have a voice in all this as well. Wick is paying a lot of money for this team. When Jalen Brown gets his due contract, that's going to explode the Celtics books. I think that's going to be a variable. Expectations from ownership are going to be a variable in all this as well. All right. Read Chris Herring's piece on Carmella Wanth, and that's up on SI.com right now. Rowan Narkarni will be at the Heat Celtics Game 4, a potential elimination game for Boston. Check out his coverage there. I will be at Lakers exit interviews. What do you want to bet? People read that stuff the most. Lakers exit interviews LeBron's future. I can't get enough of that. Yeah. NBA Finals LeBron's going to announce his retirement like before Game 7. Just get everybody talking about it. In the middle of one of the games. Yeah. Got to love it. Guys, we'll do it again. All right. Okay.