James Harden vs. Daryl Morey

This is the crossover NBA podcast I'm Chris Maddox joined this week by Rowan for a mini podcast both powering down a little bit the month of August vacation what not getting ready for training camps to open in September but we did have some news in the NBA some I don't know what to call this news some some powerful words some powerful a powerful statements from one James Harden who was over on a promotional tour over in China when he said this So Rowan putting on a shelf for a minute the interesting location of James Harden's comments which took place in China his crowd playing to his crowd playing to the crowd China of course where Darryl Mori is not the most popular figure because of some an earlier tweet years ago now about Hong Kong putting that aside for a moment. What did you make of James Harden choosing mid August on a promotional tour in China to reveal at least a portion of why he no longer wants to play in Philadelphia it's pretty incredible you know Chris you've been doing this longer than I have every time I think we've kind of seen everything when it comes to trade requests like we were talking earlier like what Damien Lither doing this summer pretty aggressive his agent at least kind of publicly telling telling the Miami Harold I believe like damn really only wants to go to Miami that was taking on a life of its own this is really shocking to me on so many levels only because I think Darryl Mori is probably the biggest James Harden fan or at least seem to be the biggest James Harden fan left in the NBA he's kind of been James's biggest champion over the years that to see those to have their relationship end up here is pretty shocking to me it's just it's just feels like now the natural evolution of where these trade requests of gone players are think pushing the envelope seeing what they can do I know now we're also getting these reports hard and plans to make it uncomfortable he doesn't want to show up. You know people posting excerpts of the CBA I don't think he's literally not going to show up and just forfeit a year of eligibility so to speak but I think he's making it pretty clear to Philly as we've discussed on this podcast you know what's he going to kind of just deal with the contract stuff and play and try to play his way out of Philly hope that he can endure themselves teams that way that doesn't seem to be the case it seems he's going to try to make this as uncomfortable and painful as Philly is possible so James Harden calls Darryl Mori a liar and that can only mean one of two things one it's that Darryl Mori did not follow through on a under the table agreements to give James Harden a big deal after James Harden took a cut rate last summer for the 76 if you remember James Harden now it took like 10 12 million dollars less than what he could have made to return to Philadelphia which gave the 76ers room to sign some of the guys they did most notably PJ Tucker so it could mean that there was a deal in place or an agreement in place to make things right for James Harden this off season and in fact the case that's a big time problem for Philadelphia because the NBA does not look kindly on those types of under the table agreements one of the most famous ones of the world. Of course was Joe Smith would be Minnesota Timberwolves that want to cost in the Timberwolves draft picks I believe Kevin MacKale was suspended for a period of time for doing it that was a bad situation and one that could be big trouble for the sixers and for Darryl Mori the other potential reason could be that Darryl Mori you know there was an understanding that if James Harden opted in Darryl Mori would find a way to trade him that wouldn't get the sixers in trouble with the league but I'd like to learn more about what that conversation may have been like and look I can tell you the 76ers have been trying to deal James Harden they have engaged a number of teams including the Clippers about James Harden they have found the market to be soft at best it is not a good market for James Harden right now the teams that are interested including the Clippers have offered very little in part because they know that the 76ers have virtually no leverage in part because James Harden who is either just turned 34 or it's going to turn 34 at some point doesn't have the kind of game you have and is the same kind of player and only has one year left in his contract and if you are going to bring him back you're going to have to bring him back at a big dollar figure so there has not been a strong market for James Harden all which has led the sixers to the conclusion that it's best for them to bring James Harden back at least for the first part of next season opposite James Harden has a problem with that and he chose now to voice those concerns now James Harden Rowan is trying to thread the tightest of needles because he wants to find a way out of Philadelphia but doing it in ways that he's done in years past and this is the point where we note that James Harden when his career is over should teach a seminar for the NBA players union maybe it's an unpublished size seminar about how to get out of bad situation at least situations that you don't want to do Houston did it in Brooklyn and now he's doing it again in Philadelphia he can't do what he did in Houston and Brooklyn which was on Houston mail it in for multiple weeks and in Brooklyn you know submit a couple of games including the last one which was like the ultimate white flag that game in Sacramento where he made like four shots in 30 something minutes he can't do that because James Harden is also trying to convince teams that next summer at age 35 he's going to be worth a two or three year deal at top dollar so he's trying to thread the tightest of needles any thoughts on how he does it any thoughts on how this gets accomplished in a way that James Harden wants accomplished. That is the question and the more I think about that this the more it feels like a mutually assured destruction type of situation because I think the more he acts this way for better for worse I guess I shouldn't even use that phrase I think it's for worse because I think teams are getting to the point where the juice is not worth the squeeze which James Harden he might give you great regular season play I don't think teams are looking at him as the type of player that takes you over and brings you a championship at this point considering his playoff struggles the last few years the way he performed in that Boston series he had two big games but otherwise had some really really ineffective moments and serious struggles in that series I don't think teams are lining up to pay James Harden beyond that look at the teams with cap space next summer none of them make sense for James Harden the one team with cap space that was floated out this summer was Houston credit to you manics you call this you you were you were willing to bet your career on the idea but he wasn't going back to Houston not only did he not go they gave that money to Fred Van Vley they had max money they said let's give it to Fred Van Vley instead so James Harden like you said he used to thread the needle he is best his only way to get that deal next summer is to be traded to a team that wants to keep him and as his bird rights because as a free agent he's not going to get that money I mean I wrote this because I think you wrote the piece correct me if I'm wrong like the sixers your beer point is that the sixers can't mess up this trade right like they have to they have to kind of wait out on harden my thinking was and I wrote this a couple weeks ago I would trade hard in as soon as possible if only not to do what this exact situation could possibly to Joel and beat because I don't know what I'm going to do. He's not necessarily committed to staying in Philadelphia is his entire career if they're not able to put a championship team around him I don't know that you want to put M.B. through another month's long circus that you did with Ben Simmons just because M.B. was able to handle it well the first time doesn't mean he should have to go through it again. This is going to sound crazy but I keep saying it like if I got Norm Powell and pieces back from the clippers if I'm filly I really consider doing that trade because I think I'm still competitive this year and I still have some of my cats next year. So you think about that for a second but I want to read this quote to you Chris because I think this is really interesting and I want to get your reaction to it because I would say over the last few years I've heard from players around the league. Kind of off the record that you know I think Daryl's negotiation negotiating style has transaction style while I think has been effective as a general manager I think some players find it a bit grating I know so many players around the league who were kind of very upset with the way the Carmelo Anthony situation and it had used in for example this is a quote first of all gave me on the record by the way and I think it's very relevant to the situation I just it's very funny me and I'm curious your reaction to it this is what he said to me in 2019 the year he was with the Oklahoma City Thunder. He said after the reason after the season I reached out to the rockets and said hey if you guys want to go in a different direction let us know now that way we can figure something out. They said we're not trying to go into in a different direction Daryl asked me if I wanted to go to Oklahoma City I said no and he said we won't trade you there because you chose to come to us from LA. He doesn't owe me anything but that's where the whole communication thing was I do think that there is kind of a mounting. You know again we're not privy to these conversations that's Chris fall side of what happened obviously so take you with the green assault but I just found that very relevant today and very interesting when Hardin comes out and says Darryl more he's alive. Well I don't think look if Darryl is out there and use the Chris Paul. You reference Chris Paul and if he's doing the same thing with James Hardin where he's telling him one thing and operating a completely different way that's a problem that's something you shouldn't do you should. Be transparent at all times with players and in today's NBA. You can't commit Daryl. You can't say we're absolutely not going to do something because too much can change in an instant and I referenced I referenced Danny age all the time I kind of view NBA front offices through how he operated because I watched that up close for a number of years in Boston and you know a GM doesn't owe a player anything the player gets the contract and because of the collective bargaining agreement a player is. Subject to being traded and give him what he's not subject to being is having his money taken away it's a guaranteed contract that he gets so if you're going to trade Paul Pierce or Kevin Garnett or whoever that's just the way it goes you've got to do what's best for your team and Darryl more he has to do what's best for his team I think James Hardin is counting on is this whole withholding services clause here where he knows the sixers don't want him beyond next season they don't want him on the books they want the cap flexibility that comes with the thirty five million dollars they want the thirty five million dollars James Hardin is making next year to come off the books and they want the nearly forty million dollars to buy his Harris is making next year to come off the books they want to go into next summer with seventy plus million dollars in cap space so that they can either sign or acquire a player that fits better next to Joel and beat and Tyrese Maxi which are two very good building blocks Joel and beat very much in his prime right now will be for the next couple of years Tyrese Maxi not even hitting his prime yet is still getting there and there are a lot of people I talked to in the NBA that believe that with James Hardin gone Tyrese Maxi goes to another level maybe an all star level so the sixers don't want Hardin beyond next year and Hardin may be counting on the sixers not wanting to risk him sitting out him not being a free agent next summer and being back on their books for one more year but that that feels like a long shot like and what if Hardin's on the books for another year after not getting paid this season he's going to be a free agent age thirty six I don't really understand how that works for James Hardin I don't I don't think that's a realistic possibility it's not like but I'm looking at I'm trying to point out I've tried to point out what Hardin's plays here are going to be because if he shows up and pulls a Houston in Philadelphia where he's kind of just going to put on the fat suit it's on the fat suit kind of goes to the motions meanwhile I saw his agent was out there saying hard to the best shape of his life and it's going to be an MVP next year take that for what it's worth but he can't do that because he goes yeah he does that and goes into the summer of 2024 he's a mid-level exception guy you know because nobody's going to want him you know nobody's going to want him after he does that again and he's also going to be a diminished version of himself so this is a long way of kind of saying whatever the sixers plan was before James Hardin came out and said what he said about Darrell Maury it has to be the exact same now I don't think they change one bit I don't think they should feel bullied by this I think no matter how uncomfortable it gets for James Hardin or in the 76ers come late September they've got to deal with it because I think you've got a bet that James Hardin because he wants the money next year is going to play to the best of his abilities and you know what I know everything is about you've got to have a perfect situation in order for a franchise to work they didn't used to always be the case you used to always have coaches that didn't like players GMs didn't like coaches you know it just happens that way sometimes Darrell Maury's not around the team every day he's not the head coach he's not another player he's a GM travels with the team from time to time and operates out of the sixers front office the rest of the time so you can you can envision a scenario where Darrell's not around as much maybe as he used to be and the 76ers still work because I go back to what I believed you know in the last couple of weeks I've started to talk to scouts going into the next season the sixers along with Philadelphia I'm sorry along with Milwaukee Boston in the Western Conference Denver handful of other teams maybe they're in the mix you have a team with joellen bead James Hardin Tyrese Maxi was going to get better that supporting cast you're in the mix I think they've got to count on Hardin playing to his very best and not feel bullied by his latest outburst this time about Darrell Maury I agree with what you're saying and I think you have a point like as you said there's a there's a level of friction that exists on all these teams already right they like you said there's not all not the nuggets have not always been a perfect situation and the idea that there was never any friction there at some point you know they traded remember they traded bones highland in the middle of the season like even champs teams go through situations where maybe a guy's unhappy hey the Seattle Supersonics back in the day nobody liked George Carl like nobody did coach the team he had friction with Gary paid me a friction with Sean camp friction with all those guys they still managed to succeed at a near championship level I just think what makes this situation particularly delicate is imbued on multiple fronts one he's dealing with the mounting pressure of he hasn't gotten past the second round combine that with the fact that he won the MVP this year finally but then his chief rival goes on to win the championship um whether he the the way that's played out so publicly I think that's going to add some pressure to him and then beyond that you have kind of the ticking clock on his health where he's now has a history of getting injured unfortunately almost seemingly every time he's in the postseason that this is this is not like a normal star a normal situation quote unquote that that I think adds a layer of complexity to all this and I keep going back to Philly not to turn this into an imbued versus yoghurt thing it's really not that but let's say like you if you really really believe in Joel imbued as the MVP as the best player in basketball and as you said they also believe maxi is going to take that leap up like the nuggets didn't have a quote-unquote second superstar i mean jimamaru was fantastic played superstar level in the playoffs no question about it but he he has never been the consistently at the level that james harden was when the sixers acquired him right is this former MVP why not bet on maxi and get surrounding pieces and let mbmb that that's the way i would look at it if i was dera mori and listen it's much easier said than done to betray the guy like that for kind of quote-unquote spare parts or role players but that's the model i'm looking at because the way the league is shaking out right now we don't have we don't have these very top heavy teams i mean outside of phoenix which is the complete opposite end of the spectrum entirely top heavy and i don't think anyone frankly believes in them right now that that's how i would look at it if i were dera mori is we kind of saw a team win with this model and i don't know that trying to wait for the perfect hard and trade a second time is worth the potential fallout that could happen with mb you know what i found james harden made these comments again at a promotional stop over in china um at the end of his statement he asked any other questions and look i don't know who was there if they're i doubt there were you know traditional like kids but there are some people i doubt there was traditional media that was there but if there was the follow up be what he lie about and that's what i'm most interested in i really am like of course from an nba perspective i'd be interested in as well you know the nba you know this is becoming a problem for the league i mean the nba finally stood up and said something when damian lila's agent was out there you know effectively confirming all the reporting that lila only want to play in my army now you get james hard and publicly saying he'll never play for the 76ers as long as dera mori is the general manager a player under contract next year is not going says he's not going to play as long as as the gm is still the gm of that team saying he's a liar well soon as james hardens back from his his tour if i'm at him silver if i'm you know uh joe du martes uh the people involved in that those decisions in the front office i'd want to sit out with james harden say what do you lie about did he promise you a new deal well let's talk about it with their tax messages were there i mean 76 is already got investigated for this crap like that they've already you know that this is already become a thing for them a problem for them in the very reason i mean for what it's worth this was this was this speculation last summer when he took the distance it was like why would he take the discount james harden before then it always taking the top dollar he couldn't make it work in Oklahoma city because they offered him below market value goes to houston and every single year he gets top dollar the guys made like a quarter of a billion in his playing career just off of salary alone like he doesn't take discounts that that's was shocking like why would he i mean good for him like take less money pj tucker comes on board to give yourself a better chance to win but that was out of that was unusual that was out of character for james harden and taking less money at this point what do you make of the fact that because i think you you know darren worried better than i do what do you make of the fact that these two have been joined at the hip for many years now wild it's wild the hug remember the hug they shared when james harden got a fair plane when he left rickland i i i'm pretty shocked that it's gotten to this point no but genuine nobody has empowered james harden more in his career than darren more he went out and traded for him and then not only did he build an entire team around his talents and made him the focal point of that rockets team which was the right decision it led to a level of success i mean they didn't win a championship but they succeeded at a pretty i level he also paid him every single time it came around he paid him and then he goes out and gives up a whole bunch of draft picks and ben simmons to get james harden out of brooklyn and now here we are summer of 2023 and james harden darren morey are no longer allies they are now that relationship is broken fractured however you want to frame it and i think look i think darren morey to bring it full circle he's got to stick by what he believes is best for the team i mean i i think he's got to stop promising things if that's what he's doing but he's got to stick by what's best for the team and i look i disagree with you i don't want norman pal not the norman pal is not a good player but i want the flexibility i want to look if they're going to throw tray man some inspiring contracts in that mix i'd probably consider that but i don't want norman pal's contract i want what i want to be able to be able to maneuver and go out there maybe get a max level guy via trade to fit into the cap space that fits alongside maxi and fits alongside mb'd so do you think the best move for them i'm genuinely asking do you think the best move for them moving forward with harden is to make a trade that prioritizes flexibility next summer or do you think there's a trade out there for them that allows them to maybe still be a side of there's nothing like if you there's nothing because mostly because every team in the league with assets is not looking at that sixers roster saying we want james harden they're looking at that sixers roster saying we hope this continues to implode so then we can go get joellen beat like the next you're holding on to all their their assets for that handful of other teams are out there doing the exact same thing uh nobody's going to solve this problem for the sixers nobody's going to give them the kind of pieces they want to uh to see them succeed to a point where mb'd's like i'm cool i'll stay here and i'll even resign here on my contracts up in a couple of years no nobody wants that they want this to blow up in the seventy sixers face so they can get joellen beat and i don't i just don't see how nomen pal and some expiring contracts if that's even what's offered at this point you know there's been like kind of fresh reporting it's like the clippers really unoffering much of anything just like you know expiring stuff maybe some second round capital whatever it may be uh nothing that comes close to matching the potential productivity of james harden so i again i say you bring them back and look this this adds a new wrinkle to everything it makes it potentially uglier a month month and a half from now when training camps officially open but i don't see any other solution i mean this is good this could be a tough year and it could be one that angers joellen beat but i think joellen beat would be placated next summer if they use all this cap flexibility and go get him an elite shooting power forward to play alongside him or go get him an elite two guard or three man a three and D guy to play alongside him i think the the potential versatility that this team has cap wise flexibility and say that this team has cap wise has to be the top priority because that's what's going to get them to a championship level has there been a more lose lose trade and in be a history than the ben Simmons for james harden i don't think so because this is the the net's got potentially blown up two franchises i mean the net's got picks i guess that makes them kind of the winner in this situation and we'll see if Simmons can come back and and give them anything but no i mean i mean those two guys it's just while like Simmons Simmons at least you can say he's been hurt and there's been that problem but james harden every time things don't go his way he doesn't try to solve the problem he tries to leave the problem and that's that's that's not that's not good it's really it's i think it's really tarnished legacy like he's a great player one of the all time great scores in this league but you know the last what was it now three years of his career four years of his career dating back to you know the end of his time in houston this is why he's going to be remembered for like when the going got tough james harden got going as fast as humanly possible and kind of damaged some franchises in the process franchise the probably could have gotten more for him if he just you know did things in a quieter way you know didn't make such a stinker make such a scene out of his exit all right well yeah yeah last word i just want to say no just as someone who's as i think is pro player as they come and i enjoy the movement and don't mind it it's just depressing man it's depressing to see it play out this way and just like frankly have seen him visibly quit on his last two teams and now do this like you said it's just it just sucks it just sucks man there's no other way uh but it's it's not fun to walk no it's not all right well we will be back if there is a similar situation involving dami lilo or other major movement in the NBA over the next couple of weeks until then uh enjoy the rest of the summer