Lillard's Trade Request & Big Free Agency Spending

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Plus, each week we'll be joined by great guests from the world of sports and entertainment, and I'll get Jerry to tell some entourage stories. The Listen to Unleashed presented by Bed MGM on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the crossover sports illustrators, NBA show, wrinkled down the latest news, rumors, and everything in between. Here's your host, Chris Manick's, and Chris Erick. This is The Crossover NBA Podcast, I'm Chris Manick's joined this week by Chris Erick senior writer over at Sports Illustrated to dig into what was an interesting first few days of NBA for agency. We had more than $2 billion, Chris, earmarked for NBA players in transactions. We had a high profile trade request, a little bit of everything, kind of a popery of transactions over the weekend. I want to start with the Damien Lillard trade request, which came in on Saturday, one day, into free agency just hours after the Blazers agreed to a five-year, $160 million contract with Lillard's teammate, Jeremy Grant, that's something I want to get into as well. This trade request, I'm going to call it that, it's being put out there as a trade demand. Went to the Blazers and said, I think it's time, I think we've reached our breaking point here. So it was a trade request that Lillard made from Portland, and anyone with even a shallow understanding of the NBA knew this was how it was going to end. From the end of last season to where we are right now, at no point did I think Portland was going to be able to make the kind of moves that put them in the position where Lillard could say, all right, this is a team, I believe, has a chance to do something. They just weren't there. And in fact, they were going the other direction, like they were going with a youth movement, one that began with Shaden Sharp, the lottery pick last year, had a lot of room to grow, and continue with Scoot Henderson, who they got with the third overall pick this year. So this to me was an inevitable outcome for Lillard. What I don't get, and I don't really like, frankly, is how adversarial it seems to be becoming, because it didn't have to be this way, Chris. It didn't have to be in a position where I think it's going right now with the Blazers. I mean, Joe Kronin put out a statement after Lillard's trade request, effectively confirming it's saying, well, we want Dame here, like, why, why, Joe, do you, and the people in your front office, want Dame and Lillard to be part of what you're doing right now? Are you not better off having the assets that Dame and Lillard can return and begin to those as well? Are you not better off? Like, your statement should have been something to the effect of, we did the best we could, we're not there. We're going to work with Dame on a deal. We appreciate everything Dame's done for the franchise, and now we're going to really appreciate all he's going to do for the franchise moving forward, because we're going to get a, you know, wheelbarrow, wheelbarrow full of drafts. I don't think that would be part of the statement, buddy. It should be. It should be. Like, no, but like, Chris, that's where I kind of want to start, like, how we're kind of in this nasty place with Lillard and the Blazers, which seems completely unnecessary to me. What do you think? I mean, look, I think sometimes with stuff like this, particularly in a smaller market, this stuff, like even down to, you know, I wrote the book on the 96, like, when you have the departure of a singular sort of star for a franchise that never quite got there, never quite won, the name on the organization that makes the deal to be known as the guy, and it's not the guy that shot Jesse James, but like the guy that shipped out the star, your name is on that, and you want to try to frame it the way you want to frame it. And there's a way to view that historically, and I also think there's a way to view it of right now, and you don't want to be seen as the bad guy here. So if you frame it, if you could kind of frame it from, I mean, this is a strong word, maybe it's not, but if you can frame it from the standpoint of victim of saying that he wanted out, so we're just now trying to acquiesce to that, like we didn't want that outcome. Okay, you can also show that action through, like putting together a better team for him. And frankly, not every piece of it is on Cronin, the organization before he was running the whole thing, sat on a trio for a long time that had moments where like maybe there was enough to think that you could break through, but I can't remember when I used a stat for a story. The Blazers had essentially the longest standing trio between having Nercage and CJ and Dame, they were the longest standing trio, basically an NBA history that never made it to a finals, if I recall correctly, like the only trios that have existed, like in a cohesive form for that long are ones that have won championships. And I know they made it to a conference finals. They weren't ever that close to making a finals. There were at least two years there, I'm like, why are they still like at least trade one of those pieces around Dame, whether it's CJ, whether it's Nerc, they both had moments where their value was pretty high and pretty solid. And yes, they were good teammates of Dame's. You always have to be reluctant to do that, but when you do it, you go in thinking, here's exactly how we want to fix our team. This was a team that didn't have defense for many of those years. And you know, part of why I think they value Jeremy grants too much is because he actually can play some and he and he scores. But I mean, so yes, they could have framed it differently. I'm not terribly surprised they framed it this way. I understand it's going to probably generate feelings for Dame of like, wow, I really did my very best to stand by this even when it didn't really make sense. I watched Carmelo go through some of that in New York too. And Carmelo didn't win or get them nearly as close to the finals as Dame did. But, you know, even when I talked to him when he retired, he was like, you know, there were times where I took some hits here, and I wasn't really understanding where they were coming from because I tried to be like just kind of the good soldier, the good citizen. So there's definitely some of that. I say all that to say this, it'll be interesting now to see how they handle his request. Miami does not have the most assets to offer here. They would need a third team, but it'll be interesting to see if Miami doesn't have the best offer or even the best three way offer that they can generate. Do they send Dame there? And do that, you know, if it's becoming adversarial, does it become adversarial in that sort of way? Well, let's get into that. Before that, like the one thing you said there, like if you're, if you're a GM and you're worried about like looking like the bad guy or losing the PR battle, you're not long for that job. Like you're not going to be very good at that job. I mean, that's what he's doing here. I'm not sure. It sure. I mean, look, like this isn't, you know, peanuts. We're not talking about Charlie Brown here. Like you can't be like, wow, Dame had a trade request. I can't believe it. Like that's kind of, it came off like incredulous that the Blazers would get a trade request from Damien Lillard after they did all that work to get Jeremy Grant to agree to a contract is going to pay him $33 million or whatever it is per season. Like, I mean, that's crazy. Like the GM I covered, I've covered the most. That's been Danny H and maybe that's the other side of the spectrum where Danny just doesn't care what you think of him or what newspapers are writing about him or what podcasts hosts are saying about him. Danny Angel 2012 traded away two Hall of Famers, you know, including one who will go down as one of the greatest Celtics of all time in Paul Pierce. Just traded him away. So you know what? We're not there. We can get a lot for these guys. So let's do that. Danny Angel got to Utah, blew that thing up within a matter of months. You know what? We're not there. We're not a championship level team. So let's go fleece Minnesota and let's go get a lot of assets off of Cleveland for Donovan Mitchell and Rudy Gobert. I say this because Danny Angel was, he talked to Portland about that job, you know, a little while ago, like before he took the Utah job. If Danny Angel had taken that Utah, or that Portland job, you know, at the time, he would have shredded them down to the last Adam too. It wouldn't have mattered. He would have dumped everybody, traded Lillard, moved off grant, like everything he could have moved to get draft picks and draft capital. He would have done. So I don't, if you're sentimental or if you're worried about what people are saying about, you're not going to be very good. That general manager job, which brings us to the topic of where Lillard might be traded to. It's been widely reported and I have confirmed this as well that Lillard wants to be in Miami. He wants to play for the heat. That is his top choice. It may be his only choice at the moment. We both know that in a straight up deal, the heat don't have it. They don't have the assets. I've reported this before. The Blazers are at best, Luke Worm about Tyler Hero. I'll even take it to step further. They don't want him. They don't want Tyler Hero. In part because he doesn't fit with their already small back court, like, are you going to play a rotation of Tyler Hero, you know, Anthony Simons and, you know, Scoot Henderson. I don't see that being being a workable rotation. In part because the contract is going to start year one of the four year 120 million dollar deal. So, you know, I think the question is, does Portland cave to Damien Lillard's trade request, which I think would be a mistake and just send him to Miami for the best possible offer? Or do they do what it sounds like they're doing at the moment, which is canvas the league and see what exactly is out there? Don't, don't you have to do that? I mean, it would be, I mean, as we're sitting here talking about and criticizing Portland for not building a good enough roster, a great enough roster for Damien to, to contend for a title. You can then can't go into this saying, well, you know, we were a couple quarter short of a full dollar here. So now we have one of the most interesting assets, players in the league, you know, some probably the best star that will come along for a while now. And this sort of trade talk conversation, don't you have to get every single thing you can back for him. And obviously, again, that's not Miami at this moment. It could be, but we know Miami is not going to give up Bam here. That was, you know, that was Portland's fever dream several weeks back when you were hearing that floated a little bit that they would want that background. They're not going to get nonsense. I mean, that was not right. That there were two nonsensical reports out there about the blazers interested in acquiring Bam at a bio, which was going nowhere. And the blazers, you know, bringing Dremon greenie. So there was some breathless reporting about a dinner between Dremon and and I mean, that's fun. The day. Dremon was go there was no as long as the wars came correct. And they did. There was no way Dremon was like, he signed one of those 601 Eastern time deals. Like that deal was done for days, if not weeks. Like it's just these were these were dumb. These ideas just were never based in reality for getting better right away. So you so because of that, I mean, at this point, you have to be looking for every asset possible. Whether it's because you're going to eventually trade it somewhere, but more likely because you want to build this thing properly around a new star point guard that you're hoping will develop in your organization around shade and sharp, you know, you need to be looking obviously at this point to move Nerkich, which they should have done previously. The Jeremy Grant thing, I guess, I mean, I, you know, I still don't really understand that one. It's a very, very good player. No one's denying that. He may be an all star. He may not be, but like it just it was a high dollar deal for something that maybe made that the only way that would have made sense for them is if Damian Lillard was saying, I really want you to lock him up. And at this point, I think the only thing Damian Lillard was asked you to do is please build the best team around me that you possibly can to give me a shot. I imagine that's what he was saying when he was signaling. And so I don't, nobody looked at that signing and said, Oh, well, that does it. So at this point now, it becomes very interesting because Miami, you know, we'll need a third team involved very obviously. It's not even just like how many picks do they have the picks, whatever. It's also just the two first. They got two first, they can deal. They can deal Nicole Yovic, who is an interesting young player. Yes, they can make the money work with Tyler hero and with Duncan Robinson. They could find a way to weave Kyle Lowry's expiring contract in that deal. There are things that he can do to make it work, but they're just if you open things up, look, one thing about Lillard Chris, it's got four years left in his contract like teams that are and you can view that as good or bad because on the back end of that deal is going to be making north of $60 million. And I don't know what kind of player he's going to be in three years. But you know, it's not like you're acquiring a player on a short term deal that you're like, oh, shit, do we give up all our young pieces, all our young, all our draft picks for a guy that's going to be gone in a year. You're going to get him for a few years. And because of that, you know, the offers from non-Miami teams are going to be substantial. I think more substantial than what Miami has to offer. And they should be and it's really interesting that I just like on its face, if that wasn't his preference, I feel like there's no chance he would end up there mostly because how do you even start that conversation if the biggest name you're getting back is one you don't really want, like you're not doing that deal if that's not what you want. I've always said this going all the way back to the James Harden situation when he was being traded to Brooklyn when there were some people that were kind of surprised that Philly wasn't making that deal and trading Ben Simmons to get James Harden. Obviously, it's funny now to think about. But you know, some people thought he was like the most talented player available to make that trade for. And I said he might be. But on the flip side that you also have to view it as you might not want to build your team in the image of Ben Simmons. And if you don't want to, that's okay. Like that's a very particular route he'd be taking. You could make the same argument with a Tyler here. Like you might not want that to be your guy like the face of this rebuild along with Scoot Henderson. I would get I would totally understand that and agree with that. So because of that, like you said, a lot of teams are going to hop in here. We could have conversations about some of them. I imagine we will. Boston becomes very interesting for that story. Philly becomes very interesting. That's the point. I can't do the Boston. I can't I have a, you know, I've given up for this offseason cycle. Jalen Brown trade rumors. Like I do this for I've been doing this for too many years with Jalen Brown to the point where I think he's pretty sick of me because I'm around Boston a lot. And I think he gets tired of, you know, seeing my face on TV half the time talking about where he should be traded to. I wouldn't do. I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't. Jalen Brown would be one of those guys that would be off limits for me if I'm bossed. If you can cobble together a deal that includes Robert Williams, Peyton Pritchard, Malcolm Brogdon's contract, and plus all the draft capital you can throw in. Yeah, I do that for sure. I mean, hell, you put Damien Lillard on Boston with the, you know, with Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown, you're the favorite. You are the favorite to win the whole thing next year, but I wouldn't do it if it cost me Jalen Brown. Yeah. And if they're not going to do that, I don't see that deal getting done either. The one that I, the team I even saw floated that is interesting. But again, I think they run into some of the problems that they were talking about with Miami. They have a better headliner, but it's it would be at the Nadeer for for Carl Anthony Towns of Minnesota was talking about some of that because you have a, you have a guy that maybe he's not ready this very minute, but he's coming from the standpoint of Anthony Edwards. You could maybe make a better argument that Go Bear has a better role on a team with a Lillard than he does with a towns and an Anthony Edwards. They have some other interesting prospects. The thing they don't have in Minnesota, obviously, after giving up everything they've ever had for Go Bear is picks. And even the swaps and stuff as it relates to that. So that would be challenging for them. They might need a third team as well. But Portland, like you could do a lot worse, especially if you're preparing to unload Nercage than getting Carl Anthony Towns and setting him up with with young talent around him and a point guard that he can grow with. You know, it's just an interesting team to me, but at this point, there are so many teams where they just basically have to kind of take a deep swallow and kind of figure out, do we want to go for this? What is it, Risk? I think the Boston thing that happened last year with Dylan Brown is it related to Katie was really interesting from the standpoint of these guys have feelings. And when you do that with the best player or one of the two best players in your organization, if it was Brooklyn and the idea of really having a conversation about that with them, like who were you offending potentially? If you get floated and if you get offered in a deal, Damien Lillard is fantastic, but he's going to significantly alter the timeline for a lot of these teams. I think Minnesota, it would make sense for them because they are already signaled last summer. We're going all in on this. It might fail. It might fail spectacularly, just based on where they are right now, but they're going for it. And I don't know that that's where Brooklyn is was is was planning to be. They also might not want to get in the business right now of having a name like that be able to dictate. I don't see Damien Lillard being that way. I also think that and maybe I'm talking too long on the subject, but Damien Lillard strikes me a lot in the same way that KD did where you can kind of even if he wasn't you're not the preferred team for him, that guy's going to give you everything he has once he's there. I assume that he just seems like that kind of guy. I'm sure he doesn't want to be traded somewhere. He doesn't want to go, but this guy's going to give you everything he has once he's there. He doesn't seem like a difficult personality at all. So I would see a lot of teams kind of lining up here. How public they want to be about it is very different. Obviously not public, but how much they want to be heard talking about it is a completely different thing. And that's fascinating to me outside of Miami here. I think the team that has to go hard after Lillard is Philadelphia. I think Philadelphia is in that championship window that Lillard is in. Very much so. Look, we're going to get to James Harden and his situation there, but I've heard our friend over DSPN, Brian Windhurst, who waits getting aggregated. I think did get aggregated on his take on Tyrese Maxi being on touchable in Philadelphia. That shouldn't be the case. Tyrese Maxi is an excellent young player. And if he is given complete control of the back court with James Harden gone, he's going to flourish into an even better player. There's no question about that. But Joelle and Bede is going to turn 30 this season. He's got a body that's been through a lot, a lot of lower leg injuries, knee, foot, all the things he's dealt with over his course of his career. I would put it at like a three year window for Joelle and Bede to be Joelle and Bede and be the guy you can count on to be an MVP candidate every single year. That's right in the window where Damien Lillard fits in, where you would have an all NBA first team level guard and all NBA first team level center. You can work with that. You can build around that. You can be a championship team with that. If I'm Philadelphia, I offer up Tyrese Maxi. I offer up all the draft capital I can, which could include something they get back from the Clippers for James Harden. And I make that deal happen. I find some way to get Lillard to Philadelphia. I understand maybe he doesn't want to be there. Maybe he doesn't like living in Philadelphia. I don't know whatever his reasons are for not having the 76ers high on his list, but you put Lillard and MB together. Those are two ultra competitive, ultra elite NBA players. Maybe that doesn't make them the favorite from day one, but they're up there. I wouldn't want to play them in the postseason with two guys that I know are the kind of threats they are. Where do you stand on Maxi? Throwing him in a deal that would involve Lillard. I don't think you should be untouchable. For obvious reasons, you don't want to part with him. And writing about him even just the other day, you do a cursory check for like, okay, how old is this guy before I mentioned him in this article? He's 22. I know. He's going to be good. I've got to give something to get something though, Herring. You got to give something to get something. I mean, there's no denying that. It's not to get something. It's to get something when he's he's 22 and can you win? Let me ask you this. Can you win a championship with MB and Maxi as you want to? I think you could. I think that the more the better phrasing for that question is like, can you do it within MB's window of what you consider to be his prime while also considering that like you said, he's not a shoe in to be healthy. No one is obviously, but MB is certainly like there's always added concern, even though he's been largely healthy now for a couple seasons aside from like a COVID bout and I feel like he gets sick once a year. But he's you know, just as far as injuries, he's been very, very healthy. He was the healthiest of the the best he plays through a lot though. He plays through a lot. I mean, I talked to guys around him all the time. Like he he he has a high tolerance for pain. There's there's no question about that. And you know, will that continue? I don't know, man. Like I would maximize these next three years. What would I do it? Yes. Would I really like even a year into it later more, you know, I would I would really have like I would be concerned that I would lose out on that, but you couldn't ever say that you didn't do everything in your power you got to get and be the guy. Like I mean, Maxi at his best right now is not better than Dame at his best. Some of the same concerns you have with Lillard, like he's not a perfect player. Obviously he's not great on defense. Maxi, I think competes, but he's not great defensively. He's still growing there. He's also 22. So he might get a lot better there. He's not going to get a lot bigger or a lot taller, but like I could tolerate it, but it would be difficult. I would do it. And frankly, when we're talking about the assets that these different teams have, again, aside from the idea of maybe getting a towns, like Maxi's about as good as it gets. I think of the players that are openly not openly, but the players that for the teams that really it would make sense for them to take this leap and to make this trade. Essentially, if you're saying Jalen Brown, he's not out there as a guy that's on the table. And the Celtics might owe that to him at this point. Whether you want to use the word, oh, is debatable. But like if you're trying to tell him we're not going to do that or if we are, this will be a much longer conversation where we get input from you first. Then Maxi's one of the best guys out there that you could get. Picks aside, team aside, Maxi's a fantastic player, particularly around what you hope will be your star point guard that you just drafted. That's a really interesting team in Portland, all of a sudden, if you get somebody like Maxi. I don't even know that the Blazers would want Maxi long-term because he certainly is, it's a similar position you're in with Tyler Hero, except Maxi, I think, is a more complete player than Hero. He is a more complete player than Hero. You're still stuck with three small-ish guards, but Maxi is an asset. You could flip Maxi down the line. You could decide to flip Simon's down the line. You could do a lot of, you put yourself in good position. I would be flipping Simon's before I did Maxi any time. Yeah, Simon's also been paid already. Yeah, one of those two. Maxi's coming from the Simon's, though, is a pretty manageable contract when you look back on it, like 25 million a year is not true, not untradable in today's NBA. For the final word on Lila, we're bringing the man behind the curtain, Shelby Royston, our producer, who is our Blazers expert here at SI. Shelby, what would you do with Damien Lillard if you had power of attorney in Portland? I'd trade him like take the Danny Angel out and get the biggest haul you can because I kind of feel like you mentioned Scoot, Tyrie's Maxi, but you didn't really mention Shaden Sharp who I feel is like, you know, could be the guy in like two to three years. So I think they could have like a in Scoot and Shaden Sharp. I think that's like they remind me of like Durant and Westbrook how they were in like Seattle just like losing like ton of games and then suddenly they it just kind of all clip. That's what I feel like it's going to happen. Plus you'll get the biggest haul ever. Yeah, I agree with that. I'm not as convinced Shaden Sharp is the guy yet, you know, I like what I saw, I like what I saw of his game early. You just see more of it to believe in him as an all-star level guy, but I think building around him and Scoot and draft capital is the absolute right thing to do. You know, Chris, he mentioned Danny Age. We've talked about Danny. It's a little bit Utah seems to be a player in all this. I don't really get it. I know they've got a whole bunch of, you know, draft capital. You've got those Cleveland picks down the line. You've got their own picks. They've been accumulating picks, Minnesota picks. Like they've got picks from everybody over the next three or four years, five years really. But does a 33 year old Damien Lillard make sense in Portland? Like it pushes them, you know, probably into the top six, I want to say, in the Western conference, when you pair Lillard with Jordan Clarkson, who's going to be there, Lauri Markenins, going to be there, Walker Kessler is going to be there. John Collins is going to be there. Like, do you, does that team? I don't know how that's a championship level team. The only reason I can see Danny Age doing a deal like that is, well, two reasons. One, he probably believes he could take Lillard and flip him for more at mid season. I mean, that's certainly an age type move. And look, if you want to make it personal, the idea of keeping a player like that away from Pat Riley ain't going to bother Danny that much. Oh, gosh. I'm just saying, I mean, it's not wrong. They don't like each other. They're doing a lot of, they aren't having a lot of phone calls with those GM meetings or they have meet nothing. It's like that in happening. I mean, I would be, it keeps getting tucked in these stories. Certainly the ESPN publishes with woes and Ramona Shelburn, who obviously are great at, you know, what, what they hear in these sorts of deals. As are you, uh, you hear Dave's name attached even more to the spurs than you do the jazz. I would be really surprised either. Like, that's just like, it doesn't, but I mean, like, crazy or things have happened. Then, you know, then the spurs getting, getting a rookie was really, really good. It could win a championship. Like, I don't think it will happen. Yeah, but a lot of guys have been fast and with pop of it, though, with the as we're LeBron, I always wanted to play for pop of it. Kobe always wanted to be this after you was a basketball and then, you know, kind of say, you know, like pop of it, obviously has, I just earned a lot of respect around the league guys want to to be around him. But, you know, no, those guys went and played for him. Like, I'm just saying, it makes, it almost makes more sense to me that like to really just, I mean, roll the dice and say, maybe this guy is that good. Are they a playoff team with theme? Yeah. I think they could be because they still have enough other maneuvers and things that they could deal quite frankly. If they needed to, they've got some, I mean, I get it. Like, they're not, they were nowhere near the playoffs last year. They have some real talent on that team, though. And yeah, they had guys that were taking shots and, you know, and doing things that like, okay, their games have to shift a little bit. But I don't know. But then again, I was also the guy last year. And I remember when Michael Pean and I had this conversation, I told him that I thought Oklahoma City had a decent chance to make the playoffs with their roster last year. And that was without shed home going to even play. Like, I think teams can be ready faster if you add, it's just, I won't say just add water. But you add a player of Lillard's caliber with a few of the veterans they have. They would go out and get more guys. Obviously, if they were going to do that, they would be ramping up differently than what it is with women, Yama. And maybe there's something. If the Spurs, if any team knows about the idea of the value of having like a grizzled vet who's been in big playoff games and stuff like that and pairing him with the rookie who's trying to learn the ropes, the Spurs know how to do that. It would be very different from anything we've seen them do. But I'm not saying it, it makes total sense. I'm just saying I could see that before I could see the jazz. Like, that doesn't especially if your thought is we could flip them at the deadline. I don't quite see the point of doing that for Utah. Like, that's a big, Dame could also be injured at the deadline. Like, Dame, that's the risk. You're right. So I don't see that. But I, I think the whole conversation about Dame and where he's headed and how this plays out is fascinating. Obviously. San Antonio, like, if you're Lillard, why would you want to do that? Like, at that time, like in year four of your contract, you are a championship contender. That's the best. Like, Victor Wemaniamma is going to be great. It's going to take him a couple of years to be asking him what it takes all NBA players, a couple of years to be great. And plus, you got, you know, your first trip to the playoffs, nobody ever really succeeds, you know, on that run. Same thing can be said for Utah. Like, you put Lillard on that team, you know, Walker Kessel is not going to step in and look great against Nicole Yokech in the postseason. I just, Philadelphia makes sense. Miami makes sense. Brooklyn, I can squint and make it make sense. Everything else feels like white noise right now. But if you're, I think we both agree with you, the blazers, you got to take max value wherever that may be. If you have to send him to Toronto, like, that's just the way it goes. Like, you have to worry about you right now and not what Damien Lillard wants to do over the next four years. Hey, all it's Amisa and Devon here and we've got some news for you. Get ready because MTV's official challenge podcast is heading back in time. For the first time ever, we're diving into an iconic season from the past. And what better place to start then? Say it with me. Free agents. It's a fan favorite and has so many iconic rivalries like bananas versus Jordan, Laura versus Cara. Oh, and also you and I were both on it. Don't forget to mayor the wig. All right, Pete, girl. I know. We'll be joined by legendary cast members from the season and we'll go behind the scenes with them for the first time ever. Plus, here what they've been doing since the show ended because you know y'all are nosy and you want to know. Yeah, just because there's no challenge on TV right now, doesn't mean we're going to leave our podcast listeners hanging. Listen to MTV's official challenge podcast on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. No matter which team you root for, the unleashed podcast is here to help you pick winners and losers. So join me, Olivia Harlan Decker and my co-host, Jerry Ferrara, each week as we take a look at the latest lines and break down all the biggest stories and games in sports. That's right. From props to parlays, totals to teasers, we've got you covered. And you'll get to hear us celebrate our winners or Bermone, our bad beats, but hopefully mostly celebrate winners. Plus, we'll talk with some great guests from the world of sports and entertainment, which reminds me, I got some calls to make and IO used to cash in. Okay, Jerry, yeah, you get on that. Now, a lot of shows break down games, but the unleashed podcast is the only one that also breaks down each season of entourage as I binge watch every episode and make Jerry relive it in the process and take us behind the scenes. Oh, I got stories you could count on that. So listen to the unleashed podcast presented by BermGM on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. All right. We talked about one player team dynamic in play. Let's talk about the other, which is a little bit older news at the moment compared to Liller, but James Hardin opted into his contract. He's back with Philadelphia for next season, but does not want to be in Philadelphia next season. He wants to be traded. Hardin's going to make 35 and half million dollars on this new deal. The people I talk to around the league believe a clipper's deal is going to happen. What some of the executives I've talked to that have discussed Hardin with the sixers, they have come away with the feeling that the sixers right now are really just trying to drive up the price on the clippers. They want to make sure the clippers don't hold anything back here. Just like the clippers didn't hold anything back when they tried to acquire, or they did acquire Paul George a few years ago from Oklahoma City. They want the full boat. They want everything the clippers can offer multiple draft picks, maybe a young player, expiring contracts, whether it's you know, Marcus Morris, his contract, Nick Batum, those types of deals. So there's a sense that a deal can and maybe even will be struck between the sixers and the clippers. My question for you though Chris is unless you have a deal in place to take what the clippers give you and flip it for Damien Lillard, why do you do that? The stuff you're going to get back from the clippers. It's going to be fine. Like Marcus Morris is a good player. I'm sure love going back to Philly worries from Nick Batum fine player, but these guys don't replace Hardin's production. They're not on that level. And as we talked about, you're kind of in this position with Joelle and Bede where I saw him tweet out something the other day like the watcher like he's clearly keeping an eye on what's happening with his team and and making sure they're headed the right direction. Like the nightmare scenario for Philadelphia is you do a deal with the clippers. You can't get a deal done for Lillard and and Bede comes to you and is like, well, ain't happening here I guess. I want to be traded. So you know that's that's the nightmare for the 76ers. My question I guess is like, is how much of a risk is it just holding on to Hardin saying, you know what James, you opted in. You're on our team and and maybe kind of daring him to do what he did in Houston and in Brooklyn, which was, you know, effectively, you know, wave the white flag on on the season there kind of pushes way out of town by playing bad basketball. It's one thing to play bad basketball when you've got a guaranteed year coming up and you're in your prime. It's another thing to be almost 34 years old and having no contract for next year. I have a hard time believing Chris that James Hardin's going to show up to training camp and sulk and play anything less than his best if only for his own self interest to make sure he gets the best contract you possibly can next season. I mean, how how big a risk is it for Philadelphia to say, you know what, we can't get the deal done that we want. We're bringing you back and and we'll see what happens from there. I mean, from that standpoint, it's really good context to understand that part of it that he can't pull a Houston here. I mean, that was as egregious a situation as we've really seen at a star players level, just the way he opened to that season. Did he go to training camp late that year as well? Yeah, it was all the pictures of him out. Yeah, it was bad. Our Vegas, like it was, which again, makes it look even more ridiculous that like we were hearing the repeated rumor of the idea that Houston was going to bring him back at big money this year, which you know, that's the context here also is that it seems like thank you. May you doca for that. You can thank you. Yeah, because it I mean, that's what put us in this situation now where seemed like that undercut whatever levers he was expecting to have. And it seems like essentially Philly called his bluff from that standpoint and said, well, you know, yeah, you're more than welcome to take whatever else is out there. But if there's nothing else out there, here's our offer. And it wasn't the long term big money deal, like, which I think Philly had every right to do. I understand the relationship or what relationship there was between Darryl Mori and James Hardin. You can't torpedo your team by giving him a long term deal when he like, let's just be honest about the way he looked in the playoffs. Like he looked like kind of a flickering light from the standpoint of like game one, he could have 42 game. What was a game? Three game four, whatever it was, we had 45 against the Celtics. And then the other ones were, you know, in some cases, like single point performance, a single digit point performances. It's not good enough. And he's always been someone that's kind of been hit or miss or just evaporates completely by the end of the playoff run. You need someone that can play three, four rounds with James, I'm sorry, with Joe LNB. So I, you know, he's not a great defender. He is slowing down offensively. He wasn't getting to the line at the same rate that we were always used to seeing. He's a great passer. And he's, you know, he's still, he was, he was hitting threes at a great rate for him by his standards. So he still has value. He's still a good player, still a great player at times. But it wasn't consistent enough to give him three, four years, guaranteed at huge max money. And I don't blame the sixers for doing that. So I think you are in a position where you can essentially call his bluff. He's in a contract year at this point. If he does something egregious, he's doing it at his peril as well as the teams. And this is still a team that has a chance, like not that many things have to go wrong for them to have a shot at making the finals. It wouldn't be anybody's favorite. If it's just them running it back, essentially. But crazier things have happened. We've seen it. And, uh, you know, I, I think they would be very smart to hold on them until at least the Lillard situation is resolved if that's what they want. That would be a great landing spot for him, whether they have to give up maxi or not. Why would you give up your borderline all star all NBA guard without knowing that you can get Lillard first? I mean, it's just a no brainer to hold on to him for now. Yeah. If you can get two first round picks out of the clippers in a harden deal, you probably do that, right? Because, I mean, those deep into the decade first round picks and the clippers could be incredibly valuable. I don't know how long this window is going to be open for LA, but, you know, 2028, 2030. I'm not so sure if that team's going to be, especially with this new, you know, de facto hard cap, you know, hamstring them from just spending into relevancy. I think that's going to be those would be valuable assets back. So if you can get two firsts to exchange for for harden, I'd probably do that. You take Marcus Morris, you take Nick Batoon, you see if they, you know, can, you know, be plug and play type role players. And then you hope Tyrese maxi blossoms. But, you know, barring that, I'd bring them back because if you, if you have hardened and he's expiring $35,000,000,000 contract and you've got Tobias Harris and his expiring, you know, almost $40 million contract. You're talking about $70 plus million. You're going to wipe off your books next season where effectively, you know, you're looking at having in terms of big deals, you'll have Joelle and bead on his long-term contract. You'll have Maxi on his new deal, which is probably going to be north of $30 million in his first year. But that gives you some wiggle room to, to do some things and look, you know, Philadelphia is a desirable market and beads a desirable player to play with. Tyrese maxi, if he blows up this year, all of a sudden he could be an attractive recruiter for agents to be or, you know, potential trade targets that there are worst things you can do than, you know, then just letting those contracts fall off, you know, dare harden, because with hardened, if hardened is playing at his best, you're giving yourself a chance, right? That team was, you know, up three, two on Boston the second round. Like, you've got a chance to, to do something. And then if it doesn't work out long-term, you've got some flexibility. So I think there are some interesting options right here for Philadelphia. But just bringing all back full circle, I would, I would be aggressive if I were the Sixers and getting Damien Lillard. I would, I, I just think that that buys you a three-year championship window with two guys that are big-time performers. I know that bead hasn't advanced past the second round, but I think with the right pieces around him and Lillard is that right piece. I think he, they, uh, they do exceptionally well. Uh, a couple things I want to talk to you about before we get out here. Uh, the Lakers. I thought the Lakers had a really good few days. Um, I've seen some takes on it's, uh, the Lakers off season was overrated. The Lakers off season was fantastic. I'm kind of in the middle. I think they improved their team with some of the deals that they make. I love Torian Prince as a 3&D type guy. He shot like 38% from three last year at Minnesota. Long range. I think he's a better version of Lonnie Walker, uh, for them. I like the fact that they got Austin Reeves and D'Angelo Russell back on some team-friendly contracts. I mean, two years for D'Angelo Russell. I mean, it was like four months ago, Chris, when we were talking about Russell, you know, maybe getting a max contract out there from somebody or some kind of big deal that over four years. They got him for two years at about 17 per. Nobody gave Austin Reeves that super contract. The Lakers were worried about that four-year, $100 million deal. That would get surprised to me. I actually thought San Antonio would just to screw with the Lakers would do it because they didn't like going to match and, you know, what I thought popped which might be. I was stunned at what his number was. I thought it was going to be so much higher than that. Yeah. They take some flyers on X Lottery picks, Jackson Hayes, Cam Reddish. That's what they do. You know, they like sign of those guys that have, you know, talent and potential upside. I just liked it. I liked all the moves that they made. Obviously, everything the Lakers do has to be viewed through the prism of how good is LeBron James at age 39, how healthy is Anthony Davis going to be next season. But if both those guys play at a high level, the Lakers are in the mix. Like, you know, I don't know if they're on Denver's level yet, but Denver, they lost Bruce Brown, they lost Jeff Green. Those are two rotation players. And like we can sit here and say Christian Brown can fill that slot and he probably can. We can say Peyton Watson is a good player and he is, but they lost two rotation players on a championship team. That's not nothing. And the Lakers, I think, got at the very least incrementally better than they were last season. Yeah. I mean, I liked their offseason. I'm not the biggest D'Angelo Russell fans, but I'm right there with you that, you know, you're looking for value at a certain point. I think the Laker fans were probably terrified of what sort of number they were willing to bring him back at. And that's not a bad number. He's going to have enough games for you that are good. He's also going to have some stinkers and you never feel confident about his defense. They have a lot of rangel defenders on this team. They have some guys that aren't rangel necessarily, but I thought Gabe Vincent was a terrific scientist. Yeah, it's the other guy that mentioned Gabe Vincent. In fact, we're placing Schroeder like in that rotation. Yeah. You know, I think to me, I think to a lot of people like some people would have probably preferred to have had Schroeder as opposed to having D'Angelo Russell, obviously slightly different in terms of skill set and stuff like that. But this is a good team. And I think that really when we watched them ascend, you obviously made the pick for them to go to the western, to go to the finals. They were finals picked. And what made that not crazy to say was the fact that they fundamentally shifted their roster to having more depth. They dropped Westbrook's contract and they got a bunch of guys that can just play ball and can rebound, can defend. Those teams will get you far. That's closer to what their team was when they won the title during that bubble season. And so I think they got a lot of guys like this. And now even more so than just the number of guys they have, the fact that they get a full season of this is opposed to a couple months of it. Even the couple months they had was kind of ruined a little bit by the fact that Lebron got hurt right after breaking that record, essentially. So they didn't have the cohesion that it did like really it's not that surprising that Denver did to the Lakers what they did because the Denver was kind of the poster child of cohesion. And the Lakers were a pretty new. I won't say a new team because Lebron and NAD had obviously been there. But a lot of the other guys around that situation were new. And a lot of the guys that were getting big minutes in those situations were new. Rui Hashemura was a fantastic performer for them, but he was still new to that team. Austin Reves was new in that role. And so now they get a full training camp of this. And we see where it goes. So I don't know exactly what to make of everything yet. I won't say skeptical of Christian Brown replacing Bruce Brown's role. But that's a big role to feel like Bruce Brown was perfect. I can't think of too many players that were more perfect in a role than he was with Denver. And it's asking a lot even for someone that performed the way that Christian Brown did as a rookie with a championship level team. That's just a lot. Those are big shoes to fill. And so we'll see where it goes. I'm not sure where it puts them in the conversation among contenders. I really want to see how Chris Paul looks with the Warriors. But I think it's fair to say the Lakers got better. And that's a really big thing to be able to say when you were already a conference finalist. So it was a good I think it was a good run for them in terms of what I want to find all those tweets on people that said Bruce Brown was going to come back to the nuggets on 7.8 more money that he's ever had. That's he's going to almost like he's going to triple that in his first year in Indiana. So yeah, that's the way it goes. It's a business. You have to take the contract that is put in front of you. I did look Rob Polenka since January has been one of the best executives in the NBA. Now you can say with some accuracy that before then he had made some head scratchers. The Westbrook deal was a head scratcher. I bought firing Frank Vogel was a head scratcher. But since the Hashimoto deal, the Lakers have been operating like a smart functional savvy franchise. And they have put around their two stars the right pieces. They've got shooting. They've got some defenders. They've got some athleticism. Like they've got a team that can contend for a championship next season. And you know, Rob Polenka at every public interaction he had with reporters emphasized that we are not going to go big game hunting out there. We are not going to get into the Kyrie Irving mix. We are not going to try to acquire that third star at the cost of these rotation players that we've developed. And now you've got an off season and a full training camp with the team that you want. With the kind of team that you know is going to be successful. I think it's going to translate really well in terms of regular season success for the Lakers. And if they can get to the postseason with LeBron as rested as he can be with AD fully healthy, it's going to be a tough out. They're going to be a tough out in the playoffs. Hey all, it's Amisa and Devon here and we've got some news for you. Get ready because MTV's official challenge podcast is heading back in time. For the first time ever, we're diving into an iconic season from the past. And what better place to start then? Say it with me. Free agents. It's a fan favorite and has so many iconic rivalries like bananas versus Jordan, Laura versus Cara. Oh, and also you and I were both on it. Don't forget to mayor the wig. All right, Pete girl. I know. We'll be joined by legendary cast members from the season and we'll go behind the scenes with them for the first time ever. Plus, here what they've been doing since the show ended because you know y'all are nosy and you want to know. Yeah, just because there's no challenge on TV right now, doesn't mean we're going to leave our podcast listeners hanging. Listen to MTV's official challenge podcast on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. No matter which team you root for, the Unleashed podcast is here to help you pick winners and losers. So join me Olivia Harlandecker and my co-host Jerry Ferrara each week as we take a look at the latest lines and break down all the biggest stories and games in sports. That's right. From props to parlays, totals to teasers, we've got you covered. And you'll get to hear us celebrate our winners or bemoan our bad beats, but hopefully mostly celebrate winners. Plus, we'll talk with some great guests from the world of sports and entertainment, which reminds me I got some calls to make and IO used to cash in. Okay, Jerry. Yeah, you get on that. Now a lot of shows break down games, but the Unleashed podcast is the only one that also breaks down each season of entourage as I binge watch every episode and make Jerry relive it in the process and take us behind the scenes. Oh, I got stories you could count on that. So listen to the Unleashed podcast presented by Ben MGM on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Last thing for you, I mentioned Kyrie Irving and he gets the deal that he wanted from the Dallas Madverse. Or at least close to it. Three years, 126 million. I'm sure the Madverse will say, well, we didn't have to give him a fourth year. We didn't have to give him a fifth year. We got him at three years, but you know, Kyrie getting that three years fully guaranteed player option in that third year. So that's his money if he wants it. Getting what's it come out to, about $40 million per year. That feels like a big win to me for Kyrie Irving, Chris. It feels like Kyrie. For all the antics that were happening over the last couple of months, all the leaked reports of him trying to convince LeBron James, who was not a free agent, who does not want to play in Dallas, to come to Dallas, all the meetings that were breathlessly. And I believe erroneously reported about Kyrie, you know, meeting with the Phoenix Sons and meeting with the Miami Heat, taking all these meetings, he signed that deal within 45 minutes of free agency officially opening. That's when it got leaked and put out there. So there were no meetings, you know, that were going to take place. Kyrie is a winner. I think he's a winner in all this. Are the Mavericks losers, though? That's my question. For getting Kyrie back on this type of deal, where do you position the Mavericks? I mean, I think they kind of went into this suggesting signaling to everybody that they were going to bring him back. It was a question of at what money and for how long. I feel like I watched a couple teams this summer essentially kind of decide to double down and not make a mistake even worse by doing, you know, by, in this situation, like it's very clear, we could all be honest. If you put Mark Cuban and everybody else on Truth Serum, Jalen Brunson would still be a Mav if they knew stuff was going to play out the way it had. So the idea that you let him walk and the idea that you then, you know, not to mention, and this is going way back in the spectrum, but Chris Depp's for Zingas, you know, who they wanted to break up his contract to get instead of having one big max deal, kind of get a couple guys he could slot into his money. You traded him, he's been pretty good, not healthy all the time, but the healthiest season of his career this past year with Washington now is going to be a Celtic who knows what happens there. You go through all these and they've all kind of turned out like gone on the other way, gone the other way from what the Mavs were thinking or hoping or expecting production wise. You can bring in Kyrie. It obviously doesn't work from the standpoint of like being enough to put them over the top last year. That team had flaws all up and down the roster. So maybe you're hoping this year that some of those flaws aren't as magnified. You're hoping the same thing that we just talked about. The Lakers, the idea of more time together is helpful. Look, this was an explosive offense when Kyrie and Luca were on the court together. That's not the problem. The problem, frankly, is is having enough defenders and having enough wherewithal to stop teams from scoring. So sure, I mean, bringing him back, you want to bring him back just so that you don't look stupid and you use all this draft capital or anything else that you've used over the years. You couldn't let Kyrie go for nothing was kind of what this was. I'll be really honest in saying that I didn't think Kyrie was getting a third year or if he was going to that was going to be a player option. That was stunning, too strong a word. Maybe that was really surprising to me. The only things that were more surprising to me really, we all looked at the Jeremy Grant contract and said, wow, it's a lot of money and obviously Fred Van Fleet getting 45 a year or whatever he did from the Rockets was more surprising. But like Kyrie, for the conversations we were having about him mid season last year of just the unpredictability, the idea that like he can't look me in the eye at this point, I don't even know they would and tell me that winning is everything. He's walked out of too many situations where he was already winning where he would already want a championship and was asking out of Cleveland, a Brooklyn situation where they had 120 of 22 or 18 of 20 or whatever it was, the Boston situation, these were all winning teams. And frankly, he was part of the biggest, the biggest part of the downfall and a lot of these cases where the teams had to move on from him. So the idea that he's there in Dallas and that he's happy, sure, as long as he's being paid, and like, is there anything wrong with that? No, you could approach it however you want to. But I can't co-sign that if I'm on a team where we're all saying we're in this together, that's generally what championship teams are made of. And I just don't think that's what this is. Dallas gets to say that they didn't lose him for nothing, but I will see how it goes. They could be a foreseed next year for all I know. And that's a win, but I just don't think that it's going to end well. And they went out and made other moves. They went and got Seth Curry, which he's a great shooter. You want to put great shooters around the team like this. But another guy that people would say you shouldn't have moved off him the first time. They'll have him now, but he doesn't make their defense better. I think he replicates the skill set of some other guys on this roster. They did get Dante, XM, who maybe he has a rebound from all the injuries. Dante, XM, welcome back to the game. But that's the sort of stuff you have to take gambles with at this point, given what you just did with Kyrie. And I don't know any other way to put it. Like I'm not disappointed in them or anything like that. It just is what it is. Trading for him was already a signal that you're already willing to overlook a lot of stuff. And let's be honest, Kyrie thrives on having certain things overlooked. And he has for a while. So you have to see this deal through and we talked about Joell and B and the Sixers may be having an issue with him in the next year or two. It's the same thing in Dallas with Luca. Like he's under a long-term deal, but we know those are meaningless. If the player says I'm not happy here, I want to be traded. It's kind of where it ends, right? You're not bringing a guy back that publicly says or it's leaked out that he wants to be traded. You then have to find the best deal out there. The Mavericks don't want to do that. They won't look at donches to be there, Derktavitsky, and be there for two decades. You've got to continue to show him that you're willing to invest in the team and bring in and spend the type of money needed to build a winner. The third year I'm with you is what... That's a place I didn't think the Mavericks had to go. I mean, who was giving Kyrie any kind of money? Like the money was drying up. Like San Antonio wasn't going to pay him. Houston had no interest in him. I don't know where that started. I don't want to go out there. I don't want to tweet. You see so much reporting out there. You don't want to be like, no, that's not true. But Houston had eyes for Fred Van Vlieh throughout. They were going to do whatever it took to get Van Vlieh in a rocket's uniform. That was their point card. More than Kyrie Irving, more than James Harden. They wanted Fred Van Vlieh and they got Fred Van Vlieh at a premium because they believe he is the type of defender and locker room leader they need in that young rocket's locker room. So that was their top priority. I don't know where else Kyrie was getting that kind of money. I don't. I would have liked to have seen kind of a partial guarantee if I'm the Mavericks on a third year, incentive based on that third year. Two years and 80 million for Kyrie's fine. Like you got to spend the money. I mean, you know, people talk about these dollar figures. You've got to reach 90% of the salary cap on day one of the regular season. So you got to spend this money, you know, on some way or another. So you might as well give it to a superstar that has the potential to be worth it. But, you know, where do I put them in the Western conference? They're still a play in team to me because Luca Kyrie, Tim Hardaway Jr. They acquire Reshawn Homes, Reggie Bullock is back. Like these, this is an offensive way. They brought Dwight Powell back. Maxi Cleaver who apparently is the greatest defender since Bill Russell, you know, if you listen to people in Dallas, like you've got Josh Green is there, but you just don't have defenders. You can't win the NBA unless you're a top 10 defense. And that's not a top 10 defense, you know, in Dallas. I mean, Denver, Denver would say otherwise, but Denver is also. That's rare. Otherworldly. That's rare. It's rare. It's rare. Like, you know, even like Mike Dantonie, I always remember Mike Dantonie said, he said a gaggle. I was at once. And he's like, look, this is back with his coach in Houston. He's like, if we're a top 15 defense, you know, we can make a deep playoff run for a top 10 defense. We win a championship. So, you know, as explosive as Dallas is offensively without a stopper on defense. And I'm sorry, Maxi Cleaver is not it. And without a stopper on defense. He can, he can, and I 123%. I don't know, I picked that random number. A great with you that you have to play Kate Luca right now. You have to, and he's been very clear in saying like, Kyrie, I like having Kyrie as a teammate. Who wouldn't if you're looking at basketball part of it? And you're just trying to, you want to be convinced that you're playing around other great basketball players. Kyrie is that when he's healthy, when he's available, and when he plays. I just don't see this as, I just don't, you can't guarantee, you can't guarantee anything, but you can't guarantee it'll end well. You can't guarantee he's going to be there from game to game, even when he is healthy, even when he is available to play. You can't guarantee that he's going to prioritize your team. You actually have evidence of the opposite. He's going to prioritize your team when he's paid and when everything is exactly the way he wants it. And I think you kind of get to place where you're kind of serving to bosses, masters, whatever you'd call it. If you want to go biblical with it from the standpoint of like, you're trying to keep Luca happy. But in doing that, you have to keep Kyrie happy. And that can go off the rails at any time when it, you know, if he's perceived to have been embarrassed by his organization, even when he's kind of fired the first shot to do something along those lines. And so we'll see where it ends. I mean, it's a team that, as you said, they're kind of at the behest right now of of keeping Luca happy. And if this does that, ensure he had to do it. I wasn't going to bat an eyelash if you did it for to the tune of two years and big money for two years. He's a big time player. Three years with a player option was, was like, wow, I didn't realize that anybody was holding a gun to their head from that standpoint. And like you said, there were reports out there that I, I wasn't really firmly convinced at any point that Kyrie was going to be the point guard for the sons. It's going to take the hour Gordon deal. Right. Like, there wasn't going to happen. It just, it wasn't really fundamentally possible for that to happen when they already have three guys making that kind of money. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with this because there isn't because we all do it. But Kyrie has been about the money, you know, for the last couple of years. Like he has been about, like he would still be in Brooklyn if he knew the nets on day one of free agency. We're going to give him a three or four year deal at this type of number. He knew going into the trade deadline. It was made clear to him that that wasn't where the nets were as far as, as giving him a new contract. This has been about getting the best deal possible. And he got a great one. So credit to him, credit to his agent. All these, the games that were played apparently worked. Apparently they were effective. And they got the mavericks to pony up a third year when they were bidding against mid-level exceptions and veterans minimums. Things that Kyrie was never going to take. You just wasn't going to do it. He wasn't even with the Lakers, which tells you everything you need to know, from the standpoint of where I imagine he'd love to play. He'd love to be in a championship situation. He wasn't going to go there for that. Could it could have taken that key Vincent deal from from the Lakers we wanted to, but he didn't. He wanted the money. And again, I don't blame him because we don't want the money at the end of the day. But you're the mavericks. Well, let's, you know, look, as a player, by the way, to put a button on this, like Kyrie with Dallas was great. Like I talked to people in Dallas all the time. Like they love him down there. Like they thought he was a good locker room guy. He was good with his teammates. He wasn't a problem for the coaching staff. He was fine down there. And I think he'll be better with Luca with a full training camp and then kind of figure each other out, you know, in practice and not just trying to do it on the fly. I wondered to some extent if some of that, though, is get expected the James Harden conversation we were having where this was effectively a contract here for him. Do you have to be that way? Do you have to play that role? I also don't think that he's like going out of his way to be disruptive all the time. He does plenty of stuff away from the court that I think, you know, frankly, I think the media is almost conflicted about how to report on because he does plenty of things where he's donating to causes he's showing up at things. I think he can be he's capable of being a good locker room guy. What I think is difficult is when it's very clear that you're prioritizing the paycheck and, and, you know, over a good situation and what seems like a healthy situation from the standpoint of winning. And we've seen that recently. I mean, that's why he asked out of Brooklyn among other things. But certainly, it was once that was made clear to him that we don't feel comfortable doing this with you, going this far with you. The conversation shifted. I don't know if it was on the eve of the trade done lines of, you know, a few days before that. But it was like in the midst of a winning situation with a contending team. And that's where I'm just not there were like 21 and one in like the games with Kyrie and KD before KD went out that knee injury. They were great. Yeah. So they're capable at that point of winning. And who knows whether Katie moves. He probably is staying put if that doesn't happen. So it's like, I don't want something that has a domino effect in my organization. It has the, you know, the ability to unravel my whole thing. That's just, you know, I don't want a third guaranteed year of that. So that's, you made this, you made this point. Like he can't claim to be about winning because he was a winner in Cleveland. He had the potential to be a winner in Boston. He certainly had the potential to be a winner in Brooklyn. And, you know, he wanted out of all three of those situations. He forces way out of Cleveland. He walked away from Boston and he forces way out of Brooklyn. So it is what it is. You know, far be it for me to criticize anyone that got a deal for $126 million over your years. Get yours. Go get it. What it is. All right. We will be back later in the week. Hopefully we'll have some movement on the day. A little front. Maybe some movement on the James Harden front. Maybe they'll all be lumped together. And we'll get a three team deal that makes everybody from the West Coast, the Pacific Northwest, to the East. Ultimately happy. We'll dive into that. And much more next week or later in the week on the show. Hey, y'all. It's Emisa and Devon here and we've got some news for you. Get ready because MTV's official challenge podcast is heading back in time. For the first time ever, we're diving into an iconic season from the past. Free agents. We'll go behind the scenes with legendary cast members from the season, plus here what they've been up to since it ended. Just because there's no challenge on TV right now doesn't mean we're going to leave our podcast listeners hanging. Listen to MTV's official challenge podcast on the iHeartRadioF Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Looking for advice on your sports bets this season? Well, from totals to teasers, the Unleashed podcast has you covered. Join me, actor, producer and sports fan, Jerry Farara, and my co-hosts sports journalist and sideline reporter Olivia Harlan Decker as we look at the lines and break down all the big games. Plus, each week we'll be joined by great guests from the world of sports and entertainment. And I'll get Jerry to tell some entourage stories. The Listen to Unleashed presented by BedMGM on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.