Hey y'all, it's Emisa and Devon here, and we've got some news for you.
Get ready because MTV's official challenge podcast is heading back in time.
For the first time ever, we're diving into an iconic season from the past.
Free agents.
We'll go behind the scenes with legendary cast members from the season, plus here what
they've been up to since it ended.
Just because there's no challenge on TV right now, doesn't mean we're going to leave
our podcast listeners hanging.
Listen to MTV's official challenge podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome back to another episode of the crossover podcast.
I'm Rohanathan.
You joined today by not one, but two sports illustrated senior writers.
He is the New York Times bestselling author of the book, Blood in the Garden, Chris Herring,
and he has been writing about basketball for two decades now.
Chris Manix is on the show as well.
Guys, how is the summer going so far?
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no dawg, number two,
minim, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,estic, I've
been designed to own a llard county as well.
Alright guys, a ton of things I actually want to get to on this podcast today, free
agency starting just a couple days from now, from when we're recording this on Wednesday
afternoon, and it'll be an interesting period, I'm not expecting this early, a ton of
movement of just the limited cab space around the league.
I want to start with the team that we have actually not discussed too much so far this
summer.
The Milwaukee Bucks, who are the number one overall seed in the NBA last season, obviously
exited in the first round, changed to their coach, firing Mike Bootenholzer, who won
a championship with them obviously in 2021.
This is a sneaky pivotal off season for Milwaukee, and I don't know that it's necessarily
being given enough attention, just how important this off season is for them, obviously
that team has a pretty old core to begin with, but Brook Lopez is kind of a major free
agent.
A lot of teams being linked to him, Houston, she from among them I would say a team with
a lot of cab space who could use someone like Brook Lopez, Chris Middleton is a free agent,
I think most people expect him to go back to Milwaukee even though again he's someone
who's going to be attractive to a lot of teams.
I'll start with you, do you get the sense that there's any maybe hesitation or concern?
I guess other teams wouldn't be concerned, but what's the vibe around the league about
Milwaukee's position moving forward?
Short term I think there's still in a pretty good position.
Chris Middleton opted out of the final year of that contract, but guys don't opt out
of that last year of a deal of what, $36, $37 million, whatever he was going to get without
knowing that money is out there and I think it's out there with Milwaukee.
The box understand, the chemistry between Middleton and Yanis is very good, like they want
a championship together and even though they might be overpaying for him on a four year
deal that could be worth somewhere between 120 and 140, I think they're willing to do
it.
So I would expect Chris Middleton to be back in Milwaukee on a new deal relatively quickly
in for agency.
Lopez might be, that's a little bit more difficult, I think.
Lopez loves it in Milwaukee, has in many ways reinvented himself in Milwaukee, has been
a pivotal player alongside Yanis.
As has been said many times before, Brooke Lopez might be the greatest box out guy in
the NBA.
His ability to clear space for Yanis and others in the paint is a valuable commodity to
Milwaukee.
The question is going to be, what does the market look like for Brooke Lopez?
What kind of deal can he command?
Brooke Lopez 35 years old right now, which means I think he's limited to what, a three-year
deal because of the old 30-30 rule, that's correct.
So is there a team out there willing to go like three years, 60 million or more for Brooke
Lopez?
I don't know.
I don't know the answer to that right now.
I know Milwaukee wants him back.
I think Brooke Lopez would like to be back, but this is probably the last big contract
on Lopez's career and he's going to look to maximize that value, that's for sure.
So I think Middleton almost certainly will be back.
Lopez, I think it's better than 50-50 that he's back, but that one is certainly more complicated.
Haring, before I go to you, I just want to throw out there.
The box, they're kind of flirting with the second apron, especially if they do bring
back Brooke Lopez, they have this bird rights on.
So let's say his market does get up to around 20 million.
Houston, for example, could throw a deescalating contract at Brooke Lopez, given him a huge
number in the first year.
And then it kind of hamstrings Milwaukee a little bit that, you know, Jake Crowder didn't
play for them, but he's going to be a free agent.
They have Bobby Portis signed up, but they don't really have a brilliant supporting cast.
I would say you see what teams are doing, loading up around the league, Haring, what would
a Brooke Lopez loss mean on the floor from Milwaukee, considering how important he's been
to their defensive identity over the years and the fact that there are very few centers
in the league that can defend and shoot at his level.
That's a big loss for them if he doesn't come back.
It's part of the reason that I think, and we've said this before, like it's a challenging
spot for smaller market teams to do this, but when you have a generational talent on
your team, and they saw the light, you know, the year that you're honest when they were
trying to lock you on us in before the super max situation, they got Drew Holiday.
They were trying to go out and get booked out of it as well.
They fell short of that because of, you know, the tampering stuff and what have you, but
they knew going in just like they did when they traded all those picks for Drew Holiday.
This is your, the one thing you make sure you don't screw up, you don't screw up when
you've got a generational talent on your team.
And frankly, the Middleton calculation is part of that.
I would imagine that Lopez is the same way where you fundamentally lose something that
given your cap situation, you can't just replace.
You can't just go out and teams have always been prone to make mistakes when you've got
a bird's right, bird rights sort of player on your team.
You can't replace them salary cap wise.
You can go above the cap to keep them, but there's no replacing them with other
talent on the market.
You just kind of have to bite the bullet knowing that this is someone that Yannis would
prefer to play with.
And frankly, and some people won't like it, this would be them largely running back the
roster they have.
You know, they'll switch out some spare parts at the end of that rotation and the roster.
But this was a team that I think would probably like to view it as more or less a fluke
that they lost in the first round because Yannis was hurt.
Now, was that the case?
Yannis still played a chunk of that series.
This was a team that obviously gave Milwaukee problems anyway.
They were outscored with him on the floor.
Right.
So I don't think it's quite that simple, but also it becomes a math question of where do
you get this production, whether it's Middleton, and the role that he plays on this team, the
unique role he plays on this team is a guy that sometimes can take the ball out of Yannis
his hands, but also plays well with them in the pick and roll, a guy that defends, but
a guy that hasn't stayed healthy.
How do you produce, how do you get someone that can produce at his level given that you
wouldn't have the money to replace him necessarily?
You can use his salary slot to replace him.
And with Brooke, it might be harder.
Like he might be the more irreplaceable of the two.
It sounds probably crazy to some people to say that, but like you said, three point shooter
and, you know, and let's not lose the fact that he developed into that very quickly.
I wouldn't say overnight, but pretty much.
And also his developed into someone that can do more than just drop, can do that, but
also as a defensive player of the year candidate, you know, with his rim protection ability
and his ability to just kind of make stuff difficult for offensive players.
So I think you just kind of have to do it.
And you know, maybe that's an uncreative answer, but it's, I think you kind of just have
to, and hope that you guys are good enough, and when you have the best record in the league,
I think you can at least roll that the dice with that sort of situation.
Yeah.
I just think they're in an interesting position.
You know, the Janus clock is kind of always ticking.
He's going to be extension eligible again soon.
He is a player option of the end of his deal.
He could be a free agent as soon as 2025.
I'm not going to try to start the Janus may leave again conversation, but they're in a
fashion.
I already started.
It is.
That's a thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But teams have to have their, you know, kind of ears perked up watching what's happening
in the walk.
Right, man?
They are.
Most of the major market teams beginning with New York are paying attention.
But you know, Janus has never indicated he wants to be anywhere else.
And despite all the things we just said, if they bring back Chris Middleton, if they bring
back Brooke Lopez, they're going to be, you know, presumptive favorite to be the number
one seed in Western conference.
And maybe the presumptive favorite in this new NBA to win the whole thing.
You know, you're right.
It's not as simple as Janus was injured against Miami and he did play in three of those games.
They lost all three.
But you know, I don't know, you know, he missed most of one of the games that he brought
in because of the injury.
And I have no idea what kind of limitations it placed on him, you know, for the rest of
that series.
I don't know.
I'm not overreacting to Milwaukee's problems at the moment.
I think if they're willing to spend and there's nothing in their recent history that suggests
that they're not, they know full well that if they don't spend that they're running the
risk that Janus will look at and say, well, you know, you're not giving me the talent
I need to succeed at.
And that can become problematic.
But if they do spend, they're going to be in a great position.
I think they've still got two or three years left of high level Chris Middleton.
I think you probably based on what we've seen got at least two years left of pretty high
level Brook Lopez whose game is aged exceptionally well.
You've got some good players in that rotation.
And Janus is still arguing with the best player in the NBA.
So yeah, I mean, teams will, will, you know, be quietly rooting for the implosion of Milwaukee.
But barring that, I don't think there's, I don't think there's an overwhelming reason
to be concerned about Janus forcing his way out of town.
For sure, I will say for what it's worth the last time they lost to Miami in the playoffs.
They came back and won a championship the next season.
So they're going to be very good if everyone is healthy.
But Lopez is, I think, low key a swing player in this agency.
I want to move on just really hop around the league here, you know,
haring you wrote this week about players you maybe like to see have a change of scenery.
Manics, you wrote this week about what you're hearing about different players around the
league.
I want to try to touch on as much of these names as possible.
I want to start with Deandre Aiton.
I think it was Mark Stein who first reported that Aiton was maybe on the table in a draft
night deal that it was sent him to the Mavericks.
The maps were obviously wheeling and dealing that night looking for help in their front court.
I think one thing we've all kind of wondered, you know, Chris Haynes reported the suns
are indeed going to move forward Deandre Aiton.
I mean, who knows at this point?
I think we're all wondering after the suns acquired Bradley Biel, will they keep Deandre
Aiton or will they try to move them for a couple contracts?
Is there a team that you think out there that makes sense for Deandre Aiton for the
suns to try to move them to or do you think they should try to hold on to them?
What do you think is the best route forward for Phoenix?
I mean, I'll start.
I think that Dallas really is, yeah, I don't want to say it's the only team that's interested
in Deandre Aiton, but they're in a position where they're desperate enough to make a big
move for them.
And if it's true, as Mark Stein reported, that it was the inclusion of Javail McGee,
which by the way, would punctuate a fairly catastrophic relationship with Javail McGee,
which apparently included, you know, the Mavericks deciding what Javail McGee over Bruce Brown
last year, if that's what, you know, I think they gave him like three years, that was
a wild contract.
Yeah, like they gave him a new deal and then they declared the starter and that anyone
with eyeballs knew that wasn't really going to work.
I do, I don't believe that the suns are now fully committed to Deandre Aiton.
I think the suns are looking up their roster and saying, yeah, Deandre Aiton certainly
works with this group, especially when you factor in that Frank Vogel's defenses have always
been built around a superior big, especially a superior defensive big, whether it's Roy
Hibbert in Indiana, Anthony Davis and to a lesser degree Dwight Howard in Los Angeles.
Frank Vogel walks Deandre Aiton there, he's told me as much publicly.
If you can get two or three rotation pieces in exchange for Deandre Aiton, you're probably
better off because right now the suns have six players under contract and virtually
no flexibility to add all minimum players, all the minimum players in free and I think
there's some price of levers they can pull to do a couple things, but it really is, this
is it.
Like this is what they're there, you know, I saw a report out there that, you know, ring
chasers are going to want to go to Phoenix, that might be wishful thinking.
I mean, that's, you know, okay, I don't know who that is and it just feels like the
buyout market all over again where you get these minimum guys that turn out to be a little
bit less than what you hoped.
They also will not have access to the buyout market by the way, this season, that's another
who they got is who they got a role with.
Yeah, look, they're they're they're looking at minimum guys.
So the point is, if they, if there's a deal out there that can net them two or three
rotation players for Deandre and I think they're going to take it.
I don't think that offer is there right now.
I don't know if the Dallas offer post Kyry Irving signing because that's going to happen is
is going to rematerialize, but I would not, you know, set up Deandre and locker in Phoenix
just yet.
My way of putting it, I would, I would not, that's just my review and hang the jersey up.
I wouldn't hang the jersey just yet.
I'm kind of not, but this I wouldn't put his last year.
I was there last year when Kevin Durant was traded and they were putting up that signage
outside talking to Dekorina with Chris Paul Devin Booker and Deandre Aiden.
That signage obviously is coming down or has come down already.
I would not put up a new sign just to keep you doing Deandre Aiden's face.
Just on it.
Don't let the marketing team get involved.
This is completely random, but I was at a son's game last year with Deandre Aiden.
He likes to take a half court shot to end his warm up and he was just, he couldn't hit
it.
And he was, he would have to have been out there for like 18 minutes to the point where
several sons, players and employees were gathered on a TV watching him take the shot.
I'm kind of surprised the sons didn't do that too hard away trade because I believe
it was hard away McGee and one more player.
And for a couple of reasons, I think they should have taken on Javail McGee.
Yes, you know, he's got one more year on the contract after this one, but they kind
of need those salary slots.
They need players making a little bit of money that they can include in future trades.
They need big man depth.
If they're going to trade Aiden, I mean, you could do worse than McGee is a backup big.
We've seen him work in different contexts on good teams, Kevin Durant knows that.
And Tim Hardaway would have been a useful player.
The problem is again, it's like how many like wing shooters seem going to acquire before
they try to go for someone was a little bit more defensive focused.
What did you think of that rumor herring and what do you kind of make of the Aiden situation
overall?
I mean, I think multiple things.
One, absolutely, if you're able to get the right what you consider to be the right guys
to slot in his money.
I keep thinking about the Chris Depp's forzing his trade because that was more about taking
the flexibility, getting more flexibility for a big contract when he was traded from
the maps to the Wizards.
It was about getting Dinwitty, you know, essentially just getting two players.
I think it was him and Bertons that you just wanted to do that just to get flexibility.
And both those contracts have since been moved.
Yeah.
Right.
And it was always more about that.
It was just that this isn't really working and we don't really see it, but we can't trade.
It's really hard to trade this one guy.
So let's break it into parts and also try to bolster our rotation that way.
The sun's desperately need more rotation than what they have more depth than what they
have.
I don't think Aiton is necessarily like a huge difference maker for them.
It's been a while since he's really been that in a playoff setting.
The way I think about it was just looking at, okay, they added Durant last year.
Durant obviously is going to change the ecosystem of your offense.
Deandre Aiton's usage rate plummeted quite a bit when they added Durant, which could have
been expected.
So now you not only add Durant, now you've got Beale and Beale's replacing essentially
Chris Paul.
Chris Paul was the pick and roll partner with Aiton.
So it's like Chris Paul's also not someone that's taking a ton of shots.
So that ecosystem, when you also throw in Devin Booker into it, obviously Deandre Aiton
might not get many shots at all, really.
And yeah, he's okay on defense, like Chris was saying, he's workable defensively.
He has good moments defensively.
He's had better than expected moments against elite centers defensively.
I'm not taking that from him.
But the reason you want him out there a lot of time is for offense.
And sure, you would love to have him as your fourth option offensively.
But one, who's beating him the ball?
I think that's one of the big question marks for this team.
He's like, who's going to be the point guard on this team?
And secondly, if he's your fourth option and he was, I mean, no one's ever said it,
but like if he's potentially unhappy with his role, his dwindling role in an offense
when he's reaching his prime, why go with that?
Like, why not just swap him for something else for multiple parts?
If you can get that, you know, we can quibble about whether or not the Dallas offer
would have been best.
The Suns know Javail McGee because he was in the organization.
They might not want that exact spit.
And like you said, Tim Hardaway is not really defending anybody.
So that wouldn't necessarily be my favorite trade either.
But I would be very itchy to kind of not just giving him away for anything,
but I would love to get rid of of Aiton if I'm the Suns to try to find some home for him
and get back a couple of rotation guys to just deepen a roster that has no depth to it.
What's what?
I want to give, I want to give you a credit, though, for, I mean, being the anchor of that defense
because, I mean, they were top 10 the last three years.
That's 64 win season.
They were top three, not like, yes, great defenders around him or ever really has.
I mean, Chris Paul's defense.
I mean, Chris Paul Bridges was there.
Michael Bridges was there.
No question.
Best perimeter defender, arguably in the league.
But you need a defense.
You need a guy at the rim.
And besides Bridges, like, what are we talking about?
I do think Chris Paul's defense has been as slipped in recent years.
I don't think Devin Booker is a great defender.
Kevin Durant gets early plays a handful of games.
They still stay, you know, more than a seventh last year in overall defensive efficiency.
I think he's, he's pretty valuable in, in the middle.
It's better than he gets credit for.
Yeah, yeah.
He's not so happy.
If I'm Deandra Aiden, too, like, you know, I feel like we talk about Deandra Aiden,
like he's averaging eight and six, right?
The guy's average average, average 18 and 10 over the last, you know, a few years right around
there.
18, 17, 10 rebounds.
It's been pretty consistent.
I'm sure he'd like his shots to go from the 13 to 15 range to like 18 to 20, but you're
still getting 18 to 10 and you already got paid.
So I don't really know what we're talking about here sometimes with Deandra Aiden being
disgruntled.
And I think you put him with Frank Vogel.
And Frank, one of Frank's great skills is kind of connecting with guys, you know, especially
big men, you know, Roy Hibbert.
What was Roy Hibbert before Frank Vogel took over in Indiana when they started getting into
the rule of verticality stuff and, you know, featuring more offensively.
He is LeBron practicing floaters.
Yeah.
But like, you know, he got AD and Dwight to succeed together in the front court.
I think, I think Aiden would thrive under Frank Vogel in ways that not that Monty Williams didn't
have success with him, but that relationship was toxic.
Like that was, that was over.
And if Monty Williams was back as the head coach, Deandra Aiden could not be there.
I think he can be there in Phoenix because Frank Vogel will have an entirely different approach
to coaching Deandra Aiden and look, if you're already a max guy with multiple years left
on your deal and you're averaging 18 and 10 and you're on a team that could be for a championship,
what exactly more do you need?
Like, what do you really want to be a Detroit piston and average like 20 and 14?
Like does that, does that make that big a difference to you?
Can I chime in with this one thing just from the standpoint of also if you're Phoenix,
another incentive I would think to try to find some home for him is his, a lot of times
you kind of wait on training people because you want them to build their value.
Again, just go down the list of the three guys that are going to be running this offense for them.
Where is Aiden going to be averaging 18 to 20 points in this offense and with that role in their queue?
He's not going to really produce more than he has with this team.
He might, certainly if he goes to Detroit or somewhere else, he very well could probably would.
It's not going to happen with Phoenix, so I don't see his value unless someone gets hurt
and that very well could be the case with Kevin Durant or Bradley Bill as we know.
But if it doesn't, you're not really expecting his production to take off once Chris Paul leaves the premises.
I just don't really see what the upside of hanging on him if you're hoping to be able to trade him later.
If you're not and you want to work with them because you feel like Vogel will get through,
that's completely fine, that's completely fair, then let's drop this conversation about trade possibilities.
And the sons can do that whenever they want.
Maybe that was the effort that they were making with the Chris Haynes report.
I'm not sure, but we'll get a better sense of it soon.
I do think Aiden is talented. I've been a fan of his.
I do think that the Monty Williams relationship got so bad.
I wish you guys could have been there in the press conference room after game seven in 2022.
When Monty was asked about Aiden and gave the very short answer about him.
They just didn't talk that entire summer.
I also agree, I think Vogel can get a great performance out of him.
It's just going to be, I think, a constant question of,
is the best possible version of Aiden that you get playing around these three high usage guys offensively,
worth not trying to turn him into two contracts.
And I think to Aiden's point, the sons can kind of put a rest of that if they stop shopping him.
Hey, all it's Amisa and Devon here and we've got some news for you.
Get ready because MTV's official challenge podcast is heading back in time.
For the first time ever, we're diving into an iconic season from the past.
And what better place to start then? Say it with me.
Free agents!
It's a fan favorite and has so many iconic rivalries like bananas versus Jordan,
Laura versus Kara.
Oh, and also you and I were both on it.
Don't forget to mayor the wig.
All right, Pete girl.
I know.
We'll be joined by legendary cast members from the season and we'll go behind the scenes with them for the first time ever.
Plus, here what they've been doing since the show ended because you know Yala knows anyone to know.
Yeah, just because there's no challenge on TV right now doesn't mean we're going to leave our podcast listeners hanging.
Listen to MTV's official challenge podcast on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
Moving on a little bit, I want to talk about a trade we got earlier this week.
Not necessarily maybe the most shocking one or blockbuster trade,
but I think one that's going to illustrate how teams are operating over the next couple of weeks.
The Anna Hawks, who last year just basically punted on Kevin Hearder after requiring to John Tamarri.
Hearder goes on to have a great season in Sacramento.
I get it.
They acquired Murray.
You know, how much playing time we're going to get blah, blah, blah.
I thought they gave up on Kevin Hearder way too soon.
Just basically dumped him for a first round pick.
Then this week they trade John Collins to the Utah Jazz.
And again, what's just a salary dump like not getting anything or anyone notable in return.
And they get really gay who frankly is not going to contribute to a high level playoff team with this witness career.
Collins has been on the trade market for so long.
But I think the idea was always get someone back who's maybe a better compliment next to Tray Young.
Atlanta has an expensive front court.
They got O'Connor and Capella.
Herring will start with you.
This trade bummed me out.
I mean, Woj tweeted that Atlanta's front offense has the license to spend.
I don't know how much I believe that.
This has never been a tax paying team.
I don't know how much anyone bought into their conference finals around a couple of years ago.
But they weren't in the conference finals a couple of years ago.
What did you make and just kind of punting on John Collins here?
I mean, can we be real here for a minute?
This was a team that as they made their conference finals run and got what was it?
Two games within an NBA finals birth that their owner straight up said.
We ain't keeping this team together.
It's getting expensive.
Essentially said that.
It's not the first time an owner has said that.
But this was a young team.
Everybody on this team was young.
Because of that, everybody had the potential to get paid.
Even people at Cam Reddish were kind of salivating over the possibility of getting a bigger role, getting a bigger payday.
John Collins was one of those people as well.
It hasn't worked.
Now, the fallacy with what they did is that because they decided they weren't going to pay all these guys,
they started selling them off for, you know, despite the fact that these were talented guys.
Cam Reddish, I think, is fine to move on from.
He was probably the one I was the least high on anyway.
They did that.
I don't think it's come back to bite them necessarily.
When we talk about Red Velvet, though, we talk about Kevin Herder.
I mean, the guy was one of the best shooters in the league last year.
Certainly the first half of the year and even after that was one of the most,
I think he might have been more efficient and handoff situations and Steph Curry was.
Him and Keegan Murray, both, by the way, Keegan Murray being a rookie,
that was part of why the Kings took off and was a home run gamble.
If you even want to call it a gamble, a home run move for the Kings to take a chance on someone that another team
wasn't saying the guy's not good, he's not talented, he's not a fit.
It wasn't any of those things.
It was like, we don't want to pay him because he's expensive.
He's going to be expensive.
Okay, that's essentially what they did with Collins.
The only exception is he was one of the guys they decided to keep saying to themselves,
okay, he's pricey, but if we have to trade him at some point, fine.
We can trade him somewhere and someone else will take his deal.
So they gave him what was it?
25 a year?
They gave him 25 a year.
And then what do you know?
As you make all these other moves around the edges, you make a pretty big move into Johnny Murray.
The same questions that we're having about eight into some extent about how many shots is this guy going to get in this offense?
That question becomes true of John Collins as well.
And what do you know?
He goes from being a pretty decent three point shooter in his career to shooting 29% last year.
His value is rock bottom.
And that's the problem here is that you can't give guys away essentially that actually are pretty productive for you.
Even if his production is fallen, okay.
I mean, he was doing injuries last year.
I don't think his shooting numbers last year indicate how talented he is.
And you're right.
Particularly, I think it was a hand into a finger injury that he was dealing with.
So that's going to impact the shooting.
But my point is, like, don't talk to me about the idea that you're willing to, if you need to,
you're willing to spend whatever is necessary, go into the tax.
What if you, like, at a certain point, you need to show me something rather than tell me.
And you have shown nothing to suggest that you're willing to spend all this money.
You've actually done the complete opposite.
Another team that sometimes has been guilty of that, often times have been guilty of that has been the rocket, quite frankly,
with the way that Tillman Fertida has spoken.
We know that there's some cheap aspects of that operation.
We know that.
We've seen it.
We've heard it.
We've heard other people leave and talk about it.
So I don't want to hear anything more about what they're willing to spend when they're making basically
dollar-saving moves.
You could have held on to John Collins longer than this to hope that he can recover his ability a little bit
or at least his statistics so that you could trade him from more than what they got, which was peanuts.
And you don't build a winner that way, and it's a little bit strange to see it.
It's very strange, after all this time we had of John Collins being on the trade block, that this is what you,
like, that's just poor, poor, poor management at that point, that you're not going to get anything for him.
You might as well have held on to him.
Well, I would have liked to at least have seen John Collins with a full year with Quinn Snyder.
Me too.
To see if Snyder would emphasize Collins more than Nathan Millen did the last couple of years.
I mean, that's the, you know, we could talk about the injuries, but, you know, his role was deemphasized
in Nathan Millen's offense the last couple of years.
I mean, just look at the number of shots he's taken.
Who was second and third season, when he was averaging right around 13, 14 shots per game,
he was then averaging close to 20 points per game.
The last couple of years, it's 10, 11, and he's averaging 16 points two years ago, 13 points last season.
That's why I think this is a great deal for Utah.
I mean, Utah gets a guy who's still only 25 years old.
It's remarkable that John Collins only 25.
And now you get John Collins, you get Larry Marketing, you get Walker Kessler in that front court.
That's the kind of guys that are kind of mid 20ish and younger and, and you can build around that.
Collins contract is not awful, three years left on that deal.
Utah has got to pay somebody anyway, so you might as well pay John Collins, you know, for the next couple of years.
Atlanta, no, look, they're a play in team.
And maybe they're out of the playoffs entirely.
I mean, let's write Young DeJonte Murray partnership to not look good, you know, together last year.
So they've drafted well over the years,
so maybe more of those pieces develop,
but I don't see anything that tells me Atlanta
is going to be any good.
I grew with you guys, like you read about,
they got this giant trade exception now,
okay, I believe that, they'll use that one.
I put money on the fact that they're not going to use it.
Exactly.
I'd love to know the magical $25 million player
that becomes available for them to trade for in the first place.
I mean, there might be, like, yeah,
I think they could use it if they wanted to.
Again, it doesn't have to be a $25 million guy.
They can use a portion of it,
but they're just, they are what they are.
Like, you know, the team I saw last year
and the team I saw the year before that,
is that's what Atlanta is.
That's not the team that went to the conference finals
a few years ago.
This is what Atlanta is.
And unless Tray kind of rediscoveres his efficiency numbers
and the second year of the Murray partnership
looks a lot better, they're a play in team.
It just is what it is.
I don't disagree.
I want to say a couple of things.
First, I love this trade for Utah.
I think Will Hardy is quickly ascending
to one of my favorite coaches in the league.
I think he's one of the better coaches in the league.
It's also, we've seen Lowry Markin
and have success in kind of this three big alignment.
Before, it's a little bit of a remix version
of what he was playing with in Cleveland when they had Moby
and Jared Allen.
So I'm excited to see how that looks for Lowry.
I agree.
I think they could not have gotten him for less.
They got him for practically free.
I can't remember the last time a trade like this happened
where you got someone this talented for an old player
who wasn't part of your rotation in the second round pick.
I think it's gonna be a fantastic fit for Collins and Utah.
And it just bums me out
because I think this is what the NBA wants to agree
with this second apron and the new CBA is,
they want talent spread out, right?
Like how else does Utah go out and get a John Collins type?
Otherwise, it doesn't really happen.
Hey, all it's Amisa and Devon here
and we've got some news for you.
Get ready because MTV's official challenge podcast
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Free agents!
It's a fan favorite and has so many iconic rivalries
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Oh, and also, you and I were both on it.
Don't forget to mayor the wig.
Oh, all right, Pete, girl, I know.
We'll be joined by legendary cast members from the season
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Plus, here what they've been doing since the show ended
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Yeah, just because there's no challenge on TV right now,
doesn't mean we're gonna leave our podcast listeners hanging.
Listen to MTV's official challenge podcast
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The tray conversation kind of leads me
into this next player who I want to talk about
because I think these two guys are both
in very similar positions.
That's Trayong and that's Carl Anthony Towns.
I think both have maybe, I wouldn't say they've hit
their ceiling, but I think their teams are maybe
going a little bit impatient with what they can deliver
in terms of post season success.
I think Atlanta is at least going to give Trayong some time
with Quinn Sider.
I know Trayong's dad is very excited
about what Quinn Sider can do for his career,
but let's go to Minnesota, for example.
They reassign Nazarie to a three-year extension.
I think he's in some day for the record
that you wanted to lead with the Nazarie.
Listen, I'm like Nazarie, we just put that out there like,
when I read your version of the rundown,
you want to lead.
Listen, let's not.
For the agency show with the Nazarie extension.
Let's not disrespect Nazarie who,
I would overly respect to me.
Let's, it's fair enough.
I would argue, based on contract,
he's kind of the most valuable asset
the Wolves have at center if you're into asset talk.
Should the Wolves trade carl towns,
let's just get to it.
Let's not beat around the bush.
Man, should they trade carl towns?
No, because his value is not what it was a year ago.
He played 29 games last year.
His three-point shooting numbers dropped.
His field goal percentage numbers dropped.
His scoring numbers dropped.
So he is still young enough.
What is he, 25, 26, 27 years old,
gonna be 28 right around the start of next season.
I just don't, I don't think you deal an asset like that
unless you're overwhelmed.
But at this stage, you're not gonna be overwhelmed
by offers for carl towns.
Plus, I mean, you know, as crazy as it sounds,
I would like to see more than a 20-some odd game sample size
of this group together.
I would.
Not to vindicate Tim Conley for that deal,
which could still go down as one of the worst deals
in modern NBA history.
But, you know, we didn't see much of it.
You know, Carl towns had what,
one of the worst lower leg injuries we've ever seen
with, you know, the time it kept him out of the lineup.
And, you know, it sabotaged any chance he had
of developing on-court chemistry with Rudy Gobert.
And, you got Anthony Edwards, another year older.
We'll see what else they can do, you know,
to kind of add to that mix in for agency.
But, I just still like to see that group together.
I mean, I don't think that group is championship level.
I never did because, you know, playing two bigs
in today's NBA is pretty challenging.
You often don't succeed with those types of lineups.
But, I don't think it's as bad as what they were last year.
I think if you can keep Gobert and towns together
on the floor for 60-some odd games,
keeping Anthony Edwards on the floor for that amount of time,
let's see, let's see what they got.
I think selling low right now would be a mistake
from Minnesota.
Yeah, I think, first of all, I can't pivot out of what I just
said about Atlanta and what they just failed at,
and then, say, trade towns when he's essentially
at the lowest value that he's had since he's been in the league.
First of all, I think he's still a really good player.
I mean, it has to be frustrating for any number of reasons.
For Wolves fans from the standpoint of the postseason
production, the foul outs, the near foul outs,
the decision making.
And then, obviously, when someone is injured,
and it hasn't always been injuries for him,
there was the COVID, the time that he missed.
You know, and I think also, understandably,
he was hit very hard by COVID from the standpoint
of just his family.
It's been a strange few years for him.
I don't think he was the one that asked
for the Rudy Go Bear situation.
And let's be really honest here.
That looks like potentially such a seismic mistake
that it's going to speed up the timeline
on figuring stuff out very quickly.
I don't think that the question of should they trade towns
was coming up nearly as much as it is now,
because I think most teams, most people
would be thrilled with a core of towns and Anthony Edwards.
I still think most people would be happy with that.
Go Bear is kind of the one that was added to this,
and all of a sudden adds this sort of pressure
of like, is this going to work if it's not, we have to pivot.
You can't pivot by trading him,
because if you're Tim Connelly,
that's too much of an acknowledgement
that you f'd up quite frankly.
Also, you would get very, very, very little
backfram relative to what you traded to get him.
The Walker Kessler part of this looks ridiculous,
you know, at this point, you would have been much better
served just having him and letting him develop
with this group, but at this point,
you have to let towns kind of restore some of his value.
If this season doesn't work out
and it's with them being healthy, it's so be it.
You figure that out.
I think that even at Mike Connelly's age,
you might benefit from having his wisdom and his know-how
for a full season as opposed to having
the Angelo Russell play poorly for a good chunk of the season,
not be a good fit defensively with this group.
And who knows?
Anthony Edwards, I had him on my all NBA team.
Some of that, yeah, sure was, was because he played
so much more than all the other guys that were up for it,
but he also was damn good and he's young
and is, you know, presumably going to get better.
So I'm fine with taking more of a wait and see approach
with it.
I think you need to do that if only to let towns's value
rehab a little bit, but you know, I'm also hopeful
that okay, you got to see what wasn't working
before towns was hurt.
You had a really, really not so great exit from the playoffs,
but you also had some really weird stuff
happened at the end of the year,
whether it was with Nas Reed's in three.
The McDaniel's injury.
Yeah, I'm afraid I never want to have somebody
miss time and break their hand
because they're punching a wall or whatever.
It's a really, really talented team.
I mean, we got all the way to this portion
without even talking about McDaniel's.
They're a very talented team
that is capable of a lot more than what they did
and they have a different point guard.
You know, one of my least favorite point guards
just from like a running the show standpoint,
certainly on a younger team to someone that is a veteran
that, you know, again, he's not great anymore.
You know, he's not Mike Conley in his prime,
but he's still very smart.
He's not going to lose games for you
with this decision making the way
that sometimes D'Angelo Russell was capable of doing so.
I want to see him.
I would like to see it.
I'll put it that way.
And I would like to see towns get an opportunity
to kind of bounce back to who he was prior to all this
without the immediate pressure
of trade the guy, trade the guy
because I don't think that he was the one
that was the most at fault
for the situation they had last year.
Did you just say this with the Monique gift
right there?
I did.
I did.
I would like to see.
Well, I'll make the case for trading towns
since both of you are cowards, apparently,
with this weight and sea patient,
Kumbayan nonsense, not what I come to this podcast for.
Let me just say this.
I think Anthony Edwards is incredible.
You mentioned Aaron.
You voted him all NBA.
I think he's a star right now.
I think he's someone who's ready to take the next step.
If you're the wolves, I think you have to build this team
not around Carl Towns, but around Anthony Edwards.
And I'm looking at towns as this is my best chance
to trade someone because they don't have to do
the Dame-Lillard type expected trade.
Or they don't have to do the Donovan Mitchell type trade
where they're looking for a bunch of picks and stuff
in return.
I think they could use towns to go out and get an all-star.
Use him to go out and get veteran championship
ready rotation pieces.
I'm not saying it's going to turn them into a contender,
but it might be their best chance to put it.
Who?
Who?
I'm going to turn him.
I'm going to turn him.
What about Paul George?
OK, you're going to trade for Paul George.
And then Paul George is going to want an extension.
Or else you're going to lose Paul George in a year.
So you're going to trade Carl Anthony Towns
for either one year of Paul George
or four years of potentially broken down Paul George.
That's where you're telling me.
I just think that they do not.
They're not going to sign.
They're not going to go out and sign a free agent.
Anthony Edwards is going to be too good for them to tank.
I'm not going to sign a free agent because nobody
signs in Minnesota when they have other options.
That's my point.
I just think that that towns, I think,
is their most valuable way to get a legit co-star
for Anthony Edwards.
And I don't think towns, if you offer towns for Paul George,
like Lawrence Frank would fly Paul George personally
to get call times like that, that doesn't.
I wouldn't do that.
Because if it was five years ago, maybe,
but you're going to lock yourself
into an early to mid-30s Paul George
who wants a new contract, like,
how does that get you to any place further
than what you would get with towns?
Now, you got to keep this guy there
and at least see what you got for one season.
If you can stay healthy, his value is learning to go up.
Hell, don't even go a full season.
How do you go to, like, the trade deadline?
Yeah, all right.
You know what?
And to Manix's point, not to,
this isn't even the part that I'm agreeing with
from his standpoint.
Rehaving towns as value is important,
but I disagree from one standpoint.
I agree, sure, that if you've got a great opportunity
to land a legit co-star right now,
right then and there, with him, absolutely, you go for it.
But I also think because it's Minnesota
and because as you're acknowledging
nobody really wants to go sign up to play there,
I do think you have to be looking for picks back
for this guy because that's how you build a team in Minnesota.
So I, I'm curious, that's for sure.
They don't have much to trade in that way.
But I do think that you have to be mindful of,
you just gave up so much to get go bear in picks.
Your Minnesota, you're not going to be a free agent destination.
Go get some of those picks back and you know,
you can't get it through trading, go bearing in.
So towns really, unless you're going to trade Edwards
at which point you might as well just start your franchise
over, which you would be.
I think you do have to be looking for picks back for him.
But ideally, here's the other thing.
If towns is playing the way he's played before,
you could get picks and a star and that, you know,
like that's why I think you do have to let him rehab
his value a little bit because we know he's not as bad
as he was.
Not even as bad.
He's, to me, it's not about the normally plays
and he's someone that is, is an all NBA talent.
Like normally, we could slide in the three.
This was why it was so interesting that Sabonis was all NBA.
Normally, we know exactly who the top three centers
are going to be for all NBA and towns is normally that guy.
And so we know that that's what he is.
It's less about towns as individual town,
which I agree is very good.
And more so, his fit with Edwards and Go Bear.
I mean, they have to account for the Go Bear F up.
I'll throw one more fake insane straight out there.
But how do you know it's an F up because they didn't play
together.
Are you, are you, are you, you're bullish?
You're buying Go Bear town stock?
I'm not bearish.
Yes, I like to see what they do.
I'm certainly more bullish on Go Bear and towns
as part of your team than 33-year-old Paul George.
Who's going to opt out of that contract after next season,
faster than it took for him to get to Minnesota.
That's for sure.
Here's a one more fake trade that I don't know if it'll
make you more or less angry than you are, kind of.
I'm going to let Manics take the first slice of this
because he's, he's ready, boy.
Would you offer Carl Towns for Zion?
Yeah, but
if I'm Minnesota, would I offer Carl Towns for Zion?
Yeah, I would do that.
Okay, now is, yeah.
Look, that actually isn't, not the worst, not the worst.
Not the worst, not the worst.
Look at Roy, look at for validation.
I know.
I can see the, you can see Manics
thinking about it though.
Man, it's just coming around to it.
No, I mean, look.
He's ready to pounce before you start it.
I was.
I thought you were going to say like Julius Randall
would pick, so how are you going to go there?
I really did.
Look, I think that makes a degree of sense.
But look, Zion's a five, you know,
and I think it's less likely that Zion can play
opposite, uh,
Rudego Bayer than Towns playing opposite Rudego Bayer.
Like, Towns, at least there's a three point threat.
Zion is not a three point threat.
So now you're talking about having two bigs
that are paint oriented.
You know, I would probably do it if I was Minnesota
because Zion's under contract for the next five years.
He's 23 years old.
You'd be buying low on him as well.
And I'd probably do it if I was the Pelicans
because, you know, it gets you away from what is looking more
and more like a toxic relationship with Zion
and gives you a guy that, you know,
I don't know if he has the same ceiling as Zion,
but he certainly has a pretty high one.
And you all of a sudden, you get a piece
that doesn't put you in a rebuilding situation
because you can't rebuild if you're in the world
because you've got Brandon and Grimit is prime.
You've got CJ McCallum on the back end of his prime.
You've got guys that are ready to win now.
Herb Jones, you know, just name, you know,
I'd like that for the Pelicans a lot, Rohan.
Yeah, I'd like it there.
But again, like you can't, you can't,
the reason that Tim Conley traded for Rudy Gobert
at the time was because there was the potential
to have a paint-oriented center and move towns to four
and have him be at three point shooting four.
You'd have to move Gobert to.
It couldn't be just, you'd have to have Zion
being the five with that group.
You couldn't keep Gobert around.
And if there's two moves to be made sure,
I could see that happening.
Trey Gobert for parts, which would be an amazing
white flag to wave at this stage.
But if you did that, yeah, I could buy that
from Minnesota's perspective.
I just mourn more, cannot believe.
Go out on top of that one.
Go out on top of that one.
I will, I will.
I will, I will, I will.
No kidding, I will.
I know, I know when to stop from promising.
I just for the life of me cannot believe Tim Conley,
who I have so much respect for, made that Gobert trade,
still kind of a shocker to me.
I want to, that's what you see.
Let's wait and see what it, what it turns out to be.
I can't, like we are so impatient today that I just,
look, call town's went out in what December,
like how many games they have before
you went out of the lineup.
Like I just, I want to see it.
I want to see it.
I want to talk about, Manex, you mentioned this player
in your column.
I think he is, he's like Bruce Brown plus to me.
I think whatever team signs him is going to be very excited
about acquiring this player.
And that's Grant Williams, who I think left the door open
to a return to the Celtics in some comments.
He made recently the team does have the ability
to resign Grant Williams.
He's a restricted for agent they can match.
Any offer he gets, obviously the Celtics
already made the porzingis trade.
Let's start there.
Do you, what's the Grant Williams market looking like?
Do we, I think the Kings have opened up.
They could effectively, I think, replace Harrison Barnes
with Grant Williams when we get Grant Williams.
Plus another guy.
I think every team should be trying to sign this guy.
The Celtics should have played him more in my opinion.
Oh, what's the Grant Williams market looking like?
And where do you think he's likely to end up?
I think the Grant Williams market is going to be strong
on Friday.
I think teams like Indiana, Sacramento,
who you mentioned, other teams that could be looking
to do a sign and trade will be, will be talking to him.
You know, he didn't have the greatest end to last season,
but before the all-star break,
he was shooting 41% from three.
And let's not forget the Celtics
would not have been in the 2022 finals
if not for Grant Williams.
His game seven against Milwaukee saved them.
You know, Jason Tatum at the great game six,
it was Grant Williams who had the great game seven.
He's still in his mid 20s.
I think there will be a robust market for Grant Williams.
And if I'm Boston and I need to bring him back
or I get something for him,
because you're crazy if you're the Celtics
and you go into next season with Horford,
Porzingus, and Rob Williams,
because one of those guys,
at least, is going to be hurt or out of the lineup
for periods of time.
Like it might be, I put the over under like 15 games
that all three of them play in the next season.
Horford, maybe by design, he's 37 years old
and I would expect him to be in that kind of 45 to 50 range
for games next season, you know, again by design,
but Rob Williams is constantly hurt.
Porzingus was healthy last year,
but I think I've said this to you guys before.
Like contract year guys scare me.
Guys that play through pain and play through whatever,
because they know they're at a contract year.
Porzingus, I believe, is going to get a two year extension
from Boston at some point in the next couple of weeks.
So he's going to have some financial security.
You know, does that impact his willingness
to play through pain and play through stuff?
I don't know, but I'd be wary
about counting on those three guys
being healthy and available at all times.
Grant Williams, he's durable, he's versatile.
You know, he is improved as a three point shooter,
you know, virtually every single year.
He was excised from the lineup last year
in part because he wouldn't shoot
as much as Joe Missoula wanted him to.
Joe Missoula wants like 50 or 63 point attempts per game.
You know, Grant Williams at times last season was,
you know, gun shy when it came to shooting threes
and that's what forced him out of the lineup to begin with.
So if I'm Boston, I know there are tax complications here.
You probably have to find a way to get off Malcolm Brogdon's
contract and that's going to be complicated.
But I'd want Grant Williams back in the mix.
I think he is an ideal fit for that team.
He's popular in the locker room.
I'd want to find a way to bring him back.
Haring, is there a team you'd like to see
in play for specifically?
I think Manix just mentioned the Kings.
Or no, was it you that mentioned the Kings?
I think we both did, we both did.
I mean, it would be a great fit for them.
Although, it's funny.
I always make a point to follow a lot of fans
from the teams that I'm writing about,
particularly if I'm writing about a team like the Kings
that, you know, the fan base has kind of been through a lot
between the team almost moving the fact
that they've been through a record long playoff drought.
And then this year, the joy they experienced
in making the playoffs finally,
and kind of getting center stage a little bit
and getting a shot to take down the defending champs.
So I got in contact with some of them
about a story that I was writing about the Kings this past year.
And I've continued to follow them on Twitter
and seeing the fear and those fans
about the possibility of them resigning Harrison Barnes.
It was really, really interesting.
But also, Harrison Barnes just was not very good
in the playoffs last year.
He struggled a little bit at times.
He had moments where he was solid.
He's generally been very solid,
but he's starting to get a little bit older.
And if he makes that three in game six,
what a completely different conversation it is.
I mean, you know what?
Like, obviously it would have changed the narrative
on that series.
They maybe, you know, they went to seven games.
They maybe win that series if that happens.
I believe that was the winner.
That was the, you're right, because they were,
they were up, you're right, I forget about that.
So from that standpoint, it's challenging
because he's someone that, you know,
at this point, if you're looking at him
or Grant Williams and their skill sets,
he's maybe even a little bit bigger
than Harrison Barnes is.
And certainly in terms of size and just waiting everything
and can guard up a position probably more easily
than Harrison Barnes can at this point in his career.
I think that that would be a really nice move for them.
I also think, and I don't know if you're going to get
to this part of kind of the rundown he sent out.
We talked about this a little bit on a separate call.
Man, I don't think he has it in him to do it,
especially now that, you know, a certain trade was made,
but Dremond and Sacramento, Dremond and Portland
would be so fascinating.
I mean, obviously Sacramento, because you're talking about
the proximity, the fact that they just played against each
other in the playoffs.
The stomp to subonus, there'd be so much at play with that,
but also just Dremond starting over somewhere else
would be fascinating.
But assuming that Sacramento doesn't do that,
or that Dremond doesn't end up somewhere else,
I think Grant Williams would be a great fit
for a team like Sacramento.
He shoots well enough to be a part of that group.
So he's not necessarily hindering you for that standpoint,
as long as he does shoot, as Chris was saying,
but defensively, a team that desperately needs more help,
not only on the wings,
but also in room protection too.
Yeah, Sacramento is going to be an interesting team
to see how they approach what they do with their cap space.
You know, up to 30 million, do they kind of make a home run
offer for Dremond?
Is there a guy that they can go out and try to get?
I think that it just starts for Dremond.
I really, I'd be surprised.
I'm assuming he's going to go to one of those quick,
quick, deal already agreed to kind of things.
Even with Bob Myers gone, like Steve Kurs,
there's Jeff Kurs, there, there's Thompson there,
and I have not heard one whisper of...
I'd be surprised to.
I've seen some, you know, it's today's day and age
I've seen some of the Twitter reporting about like,
I could take meetings like, I don't see it.
That could be one of those 601 PM Eastern kind of deals
that gets announced.
Yeah, it's more of a fever dream,
just to see what it would look like,
because it would just shake up the league in such a way.
Even without the Warriors being the defending champs anymore,
that fundamentally changes the face of that team,
it fundamentally changes the face of the Kings, the Blazers,
all of a sudden, the conversation about Dame dies down,
finally, you know, if you get him to Portland,
it's just more interesting and intriguing if it happens,
but it doesn't mean that that's likely to happen
or that we're expecting that to happen, certainly.
That was most of what I wanted to discuss today.
I'll just, we had a mild bit of breaking news
that I'll float to you guys if you have any reaction whatsoever.
But Nicole Avuchovich had it back to the Bulls
on a three year, $60 million deal.
Anyone have any opinion on this?
Where's the fart noise machine?
Like, I mean, what, as we talk about the Hawks
and kind of like the, what are we doing conversation?
Everyone's waiting for the Bulls to blow it up.
I mean, but like, this is an example,
and maybe there's something to be said
or written about at some point,
just about the doubling down on things
that clearly haven't worked.
The Bulls have not only watched the magic
draft some really good players with the picks
that the Bulls gave them in exchange for Avuchovich,
but he doesn't fit with those two lead guards
that they have, or wings, you know,
to put it with Levine and DeRosen.
Maybe if they trade one of them or both of them,
then okay, Avuchovich is not like he's a worthless
player, he's got value in this league.
He's among the leaders every year in double doubles.
He's still a good, solid player.
He just very clearly doesn't fit with that team,
and this is as middle of the road,
a team as there is in the league.
I, to give slight credit to their front office,
I think they would have had a really good team
in this league if Lonzo Ball doesn't get hurt.
They were a really good team.
They were in first place for the majority of that season,
that first season that they were together,
and stuff went off the rails entirely once he was lost.
Okay, but now it, like okay,
if you tell me you're gonna go add Monty Morris
to this group somehow, I don't know what you do it with
because they don't have much to trade,
but if you're gonna do that, okay,
we can have a conversation because then they have a
starting guard, a starting caliber guard
to go alongside that group.
Okay, but just to keep this group together,
unless you're trading one of your key pieces,
I just don't understand the idea of extending Vuch
other than to double down on something that didn't work,
and the reason I'm phrasing it that way
is because our tourist car service
was essentially asked about this,
and he said, I think that trade worked out well for us,
and I don't think you can say that with a straight face.
You can't say it to people that I know in Chicago,
to my friends and stuff, with a straight face,
because they all look at that and say like,
sure, he's been okay, but would we have rather
had a Franz Wagner or something like that in the draft,
or been able to move those picks for somebody else,
or something that worked better?
And they obviously would prefer that as fans,
so I think the bulls know the reality of it,
but they just have been very inflexible at this point.
This is another team that really doesn't want to spend,
by the way, as we talk about Atlanta.
So we'll see what happens, maybe they do something,
maybe they do get off Levine at some point this summer,
and then there's a different conversation to be had,
but I just am not particularly interested in seeing
Vouchavitch back with that team,
given the makeup of that roster and the fact
that he doesn't seem to fit with that group.
I don't really have a problem with it only because
they didn't have any room to replace him.
Right.
If he goes, it's not like it would open up this glut of cap space
that they could have used to sign a bunch of different guys.
You know, you're $20 million per your salary
for a durable big man like Vouchavitch
is eminently tradable.
And he has been like a picture of consistency
in the last couple of years.
I mean, identical numbers basically the last two years
and he played all 82 games last season.
So I just think you're not gonna win with him on the team.
Like, you know, this group I agree,
herring is not going anywhere,
but if you have him under a three-year deal,
a 20 million per season,
there will be a market for a guy like that.
You can't look at him for,
you can flip him into Dallas.
You can flip him anywhere for,
you can, I mean, there's lots of plays you can do.
Oh, Dallas would be incredible.
Just, we're going to score every time down the floor.
But can we have the conversation about what Chris just said?
Because that's actually my kind of just like me being flummixed by it.
It's just, it's not even just this.
It's an accumulation of all of it of why,
and there were a couple teams that did this.
The Raptors were guilty of it too,
other than going now to get fertile.
Why let your roster stand pat at the trade deadline
for a team that I guess they almost made the playoffs
as they ate seed, they almost beat Miami,
but they were a middle of the road team the whole season.
They knew Lonzo wasn't coming back.
They've already told us Lonzo's not coming back this season.
They had Vooch, they had Levine, they had DeRosen,
they had Caruso that was a first team all defense member.
They also had other guys that they could have dealt,
by the way, too, off their bench,
that they just decided not to trade.
And it's like, okay, granted, they're expirings.
So maybe you don't want to get off of them
unless you're getting a good deal back,
but go get some assets for what you just lost.
And I think that there is, to circle all the way back
to go full circle with it, to go bear,
I think that there are a lot of face saving gestures
that teams do because they're like, well, look,
we can't acknowledge that this was maybe not our best moment.
So we're not going to trade this guy
because that would be admitting that it wasn't our best moment.
We all know it wasn't your best moment.
That doesn't mean you just stay with someone forever.
It's not to say that bringing him back
is like a fatalistic mistake.
It's just why keep them together last year.
And the year before that,
when you could have gotten something at some point,
you could have gotten something
toward a playoff run last year.
And I just, I'm really at a loss for why you would just
take everybody together and not break them up at all.
At least Caruso had a very high value, I think, last season.
I was not prepared for how much this was going to make
Haring angry.
It just doesn't make sense.
I'm going to do it, but you know what, it's funny.
I was the same way with the Hawks, the words just,
it just doesn't make sense to me why you do that
where you get them, you get rid of them for a long time.
I do think all their guys are still going to be tradable.
I think Vouch arguably have more value now
that he's not an expiring deal.
Yeah, so we'll see.
Yeah, that was more spirited bull's talk
than I really bargained for.
And I respect it.
I love the passion, I love it.
That will do it.
For today's episode, we need to let Haring go cool off.
It's just bad man to step out with a lot of these teams.
I have limited patience for it.
I have limited patience for the Hawks
when they say that they're willing to spend.
Come on, man.
Let's go.
Come on.
We will be back sometime next week
after free agencies open to hopefully discuss
some crazy moves until then everyone enjoy your summer.
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