Welcome to the Influency Podcast. I'm Hadar, and this is episode number 355.
It's a Friday, and as we usually do on Fridays, we share with you some longer conversations
that we have had in the past with awesome people.
And today we are going to speak with Mary Chan.
This conversation happened on April 22nd, 2021, so it's been over two years since we've
had this conversation, but a lot of the things that we have discussed are still relevant.
All of the things are still relevant for today, maybe except for the fact that we had
this conversation during a global pandemic, and thankfully we are no longer there.
But apart from that, Mary and I talked about the voice, and how to use your voice and
share your message in an authentic way. Mary is a voice coach and a voice over artist
and coaches women on how to use their voices confidently.
All right, so let's go ahead and listen to today's conversation.
Hello, yay. Thanks for having me.
I'm so happy to have you. How are you doing?
Doing good. Yeah, it's 9 a.m. my time. I'm on the West Coast of Canada.
Just starting my day with you. Wow, it's like 7 p.m. my time, 9 a.m. your time.
Like I'm done with my day soon as you're just starting. It's so interesting.
Yeah. So Mary, for those who don't know you, would you like to tell us a little bit about
you? Yes, so I am Canadian born, but my parents are from Hong Kong and China, and I went through
this whole phase of who am I being Chinese, being Canadian, and then finding my voice when
I went to radio school out of in post-secondary out of high school and then realizing that your
voice is so powerful, it really sends a clear message about who you are and how you want
to showcase yourself through your voice and so through radio and now with my podcasting
work, it's still the love of what I do audio. Wow. That is probably so interesting.
For your parents speaking English fluently when you grew up? Oh, right. Yeah, no. No.
Okay. No. Not at all. We, I have an older brother and sister. The three of us were always
the translators. Interesting. How did you feel about it? Like how did you feel about your
parents not speaking the language that your friends spoke or your, you know, teachers
spoke? And how did you feel about being the translator because you are, you know, your
native English speaker, your Canadian, and yet like you probably felt that difference growing
up from, you know, what it was like at home. So how many languages do you speak, by the way,
just like on the side note? English is my language that I go to all the time. Cantonese is what
my parents speak and because we are in Canada, French is our second official language. So I have
very, very, very tiny, tiny kindergarten level understanding in my adulthood of French.
So you grew up speaking Cantonese at home and then English outside. So how did that feel?
That felt like this weird duality, you know, like I'm at home and my parents were very strict.
So they always yell at us and like don't speak English at home. You're at home. You only speak
Cantonese and we're like, okay. And then my sister brother and I would have like a little secret
English sessions in our rooms and things like that. But then outside of the house, I felt like
English was my life because my teachers spoke it, all my friends, although I lived in Chinatown.
So most of the students there were of Chinese background or Vietnamese and, you know, technically
English is all of our second language because when I was born, it was a Cantonese speaking household.
Right. So even though we were immersed in English, starting at, you know, preschool kindergarten,
some of the students were still learning the language, but we were in the immersive world of
English. And so outside of the home, I was English speaking inside the home. It was Cantonese up
until about high school and then, you know, we all rebelled and we were like, we're speaking English
only at home. My parents did not like that at all. And we fought quite a bit because they wanted
us to maintain our Cantonese language and to communicate with them because they didn't speak English.
Which probably now you understand what a gift that is because how easily you could have forgotten
the language had you stopped speaking it at the age of five, right? Or six. Yes, exactly. Yeah. And
even now, like I can still read a couple Chinese words and my daughter is five. So I teach her a
little bit here and then she's always asking me about different words. And even something as simple
as going to the grocery store, there's a store here locally that has a lot of Asian vegetables and
Asian things as well. And sometimes I would go to the store and an older person would come and start
speaking to me in Cantonese and asking, Oh, what is this on the shelf? And I could
converse with her the best I could because I dropped out of Chinese school when I was in grade three,
but I still have a conversational aspect to it through speaking with my parents. So I was able to
help her at the grocery store and say, Oh, this is what the product is. This is how you cook with it.
And this is what it tastes like. And it's just so great to be able to speak in a second language,
like that. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that like good for your parents for,
you know, kind of like insisting on that, because I know I have a lot of students that I have a
lot of students that immigrated to the US. And their kids only speak in English and they don't
speak their native language. And they like at at some point they gave up and then the kids don't
have that connection to the first language. And they feel like they they regret it now.
So my experience is different. I usually work with a parents, right? Yes. And in many cases,
when it comes to my students, they come to learn not because of the surroundings,
their friends, neighbors or society. It's mainly because of their kids. Like they want to improve
their pronunciation in English because their kids are either making fun of them or they make them
feel uncomfortable, embarrassed by them. Have you experienced that? Have you ever experienced a
situation where you felt like, oh, you know, my parents are not speaking the language and
all the time, even to this day. Like last week, I was talking to my mom on the phone. And I was
telling her about how again, my daughter is in grade five. So she we're lucky enough to have
our local school have French immersion. So she's learning some French. And so I was telling my
mom, I was like, oh, my gosh, mom, you know, she's been in French since September. And it's only
been X amount of months. And she's surpassed a bit of my French. She's saying sentences. And I'm
like, I'm sorry, can you translate that for me? And then my mom said, now you know how I feel.
Because when you were little, I kept asking you to translate for me so I could learn English.
But you never did. And you the three of you always felt like it was a job. But I was just
interested in wanting to learn to converse with you. And I was like, oh, oh, my heart. Yeah,
I did not see it that way. I remember very vividly being in elementary school, very young
and thinking, this is not my job, mom. I'm not here to teach you English. If you want to learn
English, you go and figure it out yourself because I have my own life. You know, you're
also understand that it's not your job. You know, it's not your job. And it's definitely, I think,
you know, with the way I see it with my, I wanted to say my children with my students.
They're a little bit of my children too. But the way I see it with my students, it is a huge
motivator. Like they want to be at the same level with their kids. So they do the work. I think
that in a way, I totally understand you too, because it's, it's not like you live your life,
you need to navigate this gap inside yourself. Like you're, you know, the identity that you have
at home, speaking Cantonese and the identity that you have outside, speaking English. I mean,
I think it's so fascinating. It's hard to bridge that gap. Yeah. And that was another thing I
said to my mom too. I was like, well, I also didn't know how to teach you English because I'm
immersed in it in school. So that's how I learn. I can teach you grammar and stuff, but I don't
really know if that helps. You know, she being an immigrant family, she worked three jobs. And so
she never had the chance to go to an English class and learn that way. And she worked in an
environment where all her friends all spoke Cantonese. So she, she didn't immerse herself in the
English world for her to learn. Yeah. Yeah. What advice would you give students who are immigrants
living in the US? Their kids are absolutely fluent. Like English is their first language.
And by the way, what you said, I think that when it comes to language acquisition, even though you
started speaking the language at the age of four or five, whatever that was, whatever that was,
our society has a bigger impact on the language that we want to speak like we want to be like
our peers rather than like our parents. So I think that is extremely powerful as well, especially
when it's like in early stages. So what advice would you give immigrants who who live in an English
speaking country and their kids are fluent in English? What would you say to like help them
communicate better or to like set the expectations or when they get criticized by them?
Right. I would say to just speak and try. And this is the same thing I still tell my mom today.
I'm like, mom, if you need to get from A to B and she takes the bus and you get lost,
how are you going to figure that out? You're going to need to at least try. And if you get the words
wrong, it's okay. Because communication is a two way street. You do your best to say what it is
that you think will get your message across, not exactly the correct words or the perfect grammar,
but get your message across. And if the other person doesn't understand, they will ask you questions.
And you understand enough English to translate in your head what they're saying. It might be a
little slow. There might be some awkward pauses. But in order for your message to be heard,
you need to try and say it out loud. And then get the feedback and try again. And then from there,
you're just learning and growing. And from that experience, you'll know, oh, yeah,
that was the word I should have used when I was asking that question. You'll know it for the next time.
That's perfect. That's beautiful. I absolutely agree with you. Okay. So tell me a little bit about
when you started thinking of the idea of using your voice to communicate your message or being on
the radio or even starting your own podcast, when did that start? That light bulb moment for me was
in high school, I listened to the radio all the time. I would have the earbuds like in my shirt
through the long hair and like listen during class. I'd love radio that much. And I think it
was a way for me to connect with someone because at home, it was like I said, my parents worked a
lot. There wasn't anybody else aside from my siblings to talk to. And I wanted to hear an
outside perspective on things and the radio was my connection. And in my high school at that time,
we had this career course where you did this online questionnaire and it spat out a list of what
you can do as a career. And radio was in the top three. And I was like, what? That is a job of
cool. And then I did the research and there was a school within my same city that had a radio
program, a broadcasting program. And I was like, I'm gonna try and apply. And I did. I got in.
It was hard to get in. But then when I heard my voice for the first time, so this is like late
90s. We don't have our phones with us all the time. And we don't hear our own voices recorded
and played back to us as often as we do now. Right. So when I got to radio school and it was okay,
learn to talk in front of a microphone. And I heard myself back and I was like, oh my gosh,
I talk like this. My pitch was so high because again, virtual world, we can't tell. But I'm like
five foot one. I'm not that tall. And so I think what I was doing with my voice was reflecting
the fact that people saw me as this cute little package. And so my voice reflected that. And I was
always just this cute little person. And they wanted to fold me up and put me in their pocket.
And I was like, oh my gosh, I am an adult. Why am I still speaking this way? And how do I
represent myself through my voice as an adult that I am? And so I learned to switch the way I speak,
not like changing who I am, but really now showing people who I really am. Not the cute little
girl, but the adult that I am in speaking from my lower chest voice. Tell us a little bit about
more about that because I know that a lot of people, especially when they speak a second language,
their voice changes. And they think they have no control over it. So can you explain a bit more
now that you said, okay, so I shifted to my lower register or my chest voice. What does that mean?
Yeah. So I think when the second language comes into play, it's because of your brain, your
subconscious mind is telling you, oh, you don't really know what you're doing. This is your second
language. You're not fluent in it. And so you're going to be nervous and cautious. And when you get
nervous, your whole body tenses up. And when that happens, your larynx where your vocal chords are
is also a muscle and it tenses up. And when it tenses up, it tends to go up high. And when it goes up
high, that's the sound of your voice that you're making. Sometimes I like to say your throat here
is like an elevator. And so if you actually put your hand by here and then swallow, you can feel
that jump. And in men, it's men and women, we both have an Adam's apple that is just more prominent
in men. So when that goes up and it moves up, your voice is also going to go up. But this elevator
can also move down. And if you shift it down towards your chest, you will have a lower voice.
But like an elevator, your voice should be able to go up and down at any given time and go up
to the rooftop garden and have a party up here because we're excited to speak and we're happy. So when
we're happy, our register goes up, but we want to be more confident and assertive where the elevator
goes down into your chest voice. So I find a lot of speakers when the elevator is broken,
it's stuck on one level. So maybe for when you're having English as a second language,
because you're tight and you're nervous, your elevator is stuck up here and you're not quite sure
what you're going to say. And so your voice is stuck here. Right. And it's like safe, you know,
you're not changing too much. So nothing, nothing breaks, right? Like you don't want to have any
mishaps. And I think that that imagery of an elevator is beautiful, like understanding that you
can really control your voice and that you want it to move. So it's not like head voice is bad.
It's just that if you're stuck in one place, it doesn't serve you as well as when you have that
flexibility and variety. Yeah, it's the variety in your voice that you want. Because yeah, like I
said, when you're happy and you're excited, you're going to speak up a little higher, but then
you're going to go down a little lower when you're like, okay, I'm going to switch a little bit
and talk down here and be more vulnerable and just get you in a different mood because how you
say something is based on how you want your listener to feel. So how do you want them to feel?
Do you want them to feel excited and be up here too? Or do you want them to be more vulnerable
and share some secret with you and speak more down here in a lower softer voice?
So is this what you do with your clients that have their own podcasts and they don't know how to
communicate all these emotions through their voice? Yeah, one of the big ones I see is in
podcasting, especially if you have an interview style show, there are your guests come on and usually
it's a script. So then they have to read it and then when they read it, they're just like, I am going
to read this script. Here is Mary. She's coming on the show and this is what she does and this is
what we're going to talk about and it's just very flat and monotone. But I know when you hear
their voice, they have their reading voice exactly. So I get them out of that to make sure that
how they hear you during the interview is also how they hear you when you read their bio,
when you read an intro or outro because a bio is also exciting because that means you are also
excited about your guest coming up. If your voice sounds a bit more monotone and you're not excited
about reading this bio, then why should I keep listening to the rest of the podcast if you don't
even think this person is exciting? And those are all the subconscious things that listeners hear
from your voice. Yeah, yeah, that is so true. Like people form an opinion in the first few seconds,
you know, that you speak. So we really want to make sure that we know what we want them to feel and
think and like what we want them to do as well. And it's all about the sound of our voice.
So a lot of times people say, how do I change my voice? No, you don't need to change your voice,
but you do want to know how to use it in the optimal way. So it serves you.
Exactly, exactly. And I find that the root of that is from your heart. How do you want to feel
and how do you want your listener to feel? And then from there, the movement of the elevator just
comes naturally. That's beautiful. And it's not just when you speak on a podcast, it really is
when you communicate with anyone at any given situation, right? Like at the store or with
you know, authority figure, your child's teacher, your doctor, you know, like your child too.
Like I find I do that a lot, you know, your child, the parent voice, you're like, do this, do that.
And then you're like, oh, that's not the the feeling I want her to have. I know, I know.
I sound like my mom. I was like, no, I don't want to sound like my mom. But that's the only time
she responds. So yeah. Okay, back to back to radio school days. So you started working on
becoming more aware of your voice. And then what? And then realizing I did like it very much,
actually, not at all, especially when I got out of radio school, one of my first jobs was to be
on air. So the person you hear talking. And but what I really loved doing was all the behind the
scene stuff, like making the commercials, voicing the commercials, putting the music and sound
effects together. But then because my first job was to have both the behind the scene stuff and
to be on air. I struggled a bit with the being on air aspect because I had to listen to myself
so much. But because I got to listen to myself, I improved a lot more. So instead of just thinking
about, oh, I didn't like the way I said that word or the way that I said that sentence. And I'm just
so self critical of myself when I heard my when I was on the air, but alleviating that and then
going to shifting that mindset to, oh, I sounded so natural when I was talking about this
artist musician or whatever. And why was that? Why did I sound more natural? Oh, because I was
really impacted by that song or that musician. And again, it comes down to my heart. I really
felt that connection to what I was talking about versus I'm just going to say this because I'm
supposed to like in radio when you're on the air, you know, you talk about the weather, what time it is
and what is coming up next. And so I didn't have a connection to that. And whenever I said it,
it just felt very static and put on versus I'm excited to tell you that it is almost 930 in the
morning for me because this happened and that happened. Like even saying the time can be exciting
if I connected an emotion to that. Yes. Which makes me think about two things what you said now.
One is recognizing that it's not only okay to feel because a lot of times people just like
shove their emotions down and they don't even recognize what it is that they're feeling at any
given moment because it's not okay to be emotional or to feel or to like you want to be cool
unaffected. So that's one thing and how important it is for you to be able to communicate authentically
because emotion is like is carried through the voice. So that's that's one thing that I'm thinking
and the second thing is how you know being able to listen to yourself. And again, that's something
that people tend to avoid quite a lot. I'm sure you have that with your clients. Yeah.
This is really the number one way to to understand what's working and what's not. Like what are your
strengths and what are your weaknesses. And if you're not willing to listen to your voice,
like how do you expect it? How do you expect to love it at any point if you can't
stand hearing it? You know, being your voice is such a big thing. I want people to embrace
their voice and say that I love it. I use it all the time because I love my voice. Would that be
amazing? Yeah. Once when I start sometimes with my client sessions, I ask them what they feel
about their voice. Can you describe to me in three words how you feel about it? And she said,
it's fine. It's okay. But imagine if it's better than fine, better than okay. If you said,
I love my voice. Yeah. This is me. This is how I showcase who I am and I love it. That's a huge
difference. It's a huge difference and it's so big and we like don't pay attention or we don't
think about it enough. And especially, you know, with speakers of English as a second language where
they don't feel fluent and confident and they don't want to speak. Yes, it has to do with
English and the words that are not available. But also, if you have that inhibitor that is,
I don't like my voice, that's yet another reason why you would choose not to speak. So tackling
that as well, like recognizing that this is your voice, it represents you. It's a reflection of
you and you have to love it to be able to use it confidently. That would really open up a lot of,
you know, a lot of the energy, a lot of the spoken energy and your fluency.
Yeah. Yeah. And it's the same with podcasters. They will record their episode, publish it out,
and then never listen to it again. But how can you know if you are going in the direction that
you want to, not just for your voice, but for the show itself as well, you know, the content that
you were creating. But, you know, they're just like, I'm going to create content and forget about
it, create content and forget about it, which in some ways is great because you are then practicing
and using your voice a lot, but you do need to go back every now and then and listen back and hear
hear not to be judgmental of yourself and that self-critical, you know, that little gremlin that's
always on your shoulder and telling you bad things. But to have a discerning ear and be kind to
yourself, like as if you were a friend telling that person how their voice is, what would you say
to your friend, you know, you wouldn't tell them that, oh, you sound horrible, what is that noise
or what's with that gravely thing that you have in your voice? No, you would never tell a friend
of that. So how would you tell your friend to have a shift in your voice? What would you do
differently? What are you hearing that I do not hear? Yeah, that's such a great way to look at it.
So I have a question because you've been in the like in the public ear, right? And when you were
on in the radio and also having your own podcast that I'd love for you to tell us about it in a sec.
But have you ever experienced any bias, you know, because of your name or because of how you look
and that didn't align with how you sounded in people's minds, right? They were expecting to hear
a certain voice and then they have you ever experienced it? Yeah, tell me about it. This one is a
story tell all the time. So on radio, as you know, you don't have a visual element. And so I always
thought I didn't want to be the token Chinese girl on the radio. And so when I got that radio
gig, I asked my boss in radio, most of the time people change their names. So it's not uncommon.
But I still wanted to be Mary. And and I didn't want to be the token Chinese girl. So I was like,
hey, boss, can I just use my first name? Is it okay? Or is it too generic to just be Mary? And he's
like, no, that's fine. If you that that's what you prefer, go ahead. And so I did. I was Mary
only on the radio. And with radio, sometimes you're live on location. So you're at the grocery store,
promoting a product or whatever. And you finally get to meet your listeners face to face. And so I'm
there. I'm doing my thing. And then somebody comes up to me and they're like, oh, you're Mary?
Oh, I thought you were taller. Yep. And then they're like, or they would say, you're Mary?
Oh, oh, and I'm like, what do you mean? Oh, yeah, my Mary. And they're like, oh, I thought maybe you
had a different last name or something like what? Really? So because I don't have a Chinese accent
and I have a broadcast accent, whatever, you know, that means they didn't
picture me as having an Asian face, I suppose. So I have that where it's the height thing and also
the the Asian face thing. Yeah. And how did that make you feel? And what did you? How did you respond to
that? I always tend to go with laughter because laughter goes a long way. And I don't want to
brush it off and, you know, start antagonizing the person because sometimes they don't mean it
in a harmful way. And so I do use laughter quite a bit to cover up some of the pain I might feel,
or the embarrassment, or also not knowing how to react. Like how, especially when I was so
young, you know, in my early 20s, I didn't quite know how to react to that. The city that I was
in was a smaller town. And I grew up in Vancouver. Again, in Chinatown, so I was quite immersed in
having a diverse community growing up. But when I went to the smaller community elsewhere,
I was the minority. And it was kind of the first time being treated in that way. So in the beginning,
I didn't know how to react. So I was like, oh, I get that all the time. Oh, yes.
Yep. This is me, Mary Chan. Chan's the last name. And it was the only way for me to get around
not picking a fight or an argument at that time. Yeah. And, you know, it's like, yes,
it's that person having prejudice or bias around the look and the sound and all of that,
or the expectations of also a person in a in a powerful position, which is a radio broadcaster.
So that has to do with that. But it's also the system, right? They're just a product of the system.
Exactly. Yeah. Sometimes you get overlooked too in especially in media. One, I'm also a woman,
which get a strike against me. Asian strike against me. I did have a lot of representation
growing up of people in radio being Chinese. And so I didn't have that as a barrier off
right at the beginning, though, because I was like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to try and
just figure it out. And again, being in a community of a diverse community, I didn't know that was
a barrier until I was in it. And so having to use my voice to speak up and advocate for myself
was part of that process. And to say, Hey, I have an important message. I have an important opinion.
It should be heard. It can be heard. And I need to speak up about it too. And not just laugh it off.
And make it a joke. Ha ha ha. But no, okay, how are we going to talk about this again in a kind
way so that we are having a discussion, having a conversation and not being antagonizing about it.
But for me to still be able to advocate for myself. Do you think this is why you're so passionate
about helping other people reach that place as well that you have reached? Yeah, yeah, yeah, because
I had to go through that myself. And I told you before that I host international students.
And so when they come live with me, sometimes it's a couple weeks, sometimes it's six months,
sometimes it's a whole year or more. And when they show up, not all the time, but some of the
students, I see them kind of like my mom again, back to my mom, you know, they they're not quite
sure what word to use. So they're pretty quiet around the house. And there are a lot of awkward
silences when a student first arrives because they're in a new country. Their time zone is totally
different. And now they have to speak a totally different language. But I remember I drove one of
the students around, you know, when they first get here, we get them acclimatized to the city,
we take them around and go for a walk and show them in the neighborhood. But I was doing all the
talking and I tried to have some quiet spots for her to jump in. And I know, you know, translating
might take some time. So I just give her her space. But she wasn't saying anything. And I gave her
that talk of, I just want you to try. And if you make a mistake, it's okay. I'm here for you.
And I will help you along the way. But, you know, if you don't try, how are you going to learn?
You're here in Canada. You took that big step to come here. So I'd love to have a conversation
with you. And from that point forward, you know, she was this bubbly, outspoken person. And I was like,
wow, did you come from? And she said it was because you gave me the permission to try a
look at the state. So sometimes that's all you need. Yeah. Wow. She was lucky to have you there to
help her. Yeah, I love having international students because they bring the world to me.
Not right now in COVID, we haven't had any international students during this time, but
can't wait for, yeah, for them to show up and to get them to embrace their voice and empower
them to use it and use English as their second language. Absolutely. So as a podcast strategist,
which tell us what that means, what is a podcast strategist? So in the work I do with
podcasters, there's two folds. It's one, if you don't have a podcast to launch one and to create one
for with you, you have the idea, but how do you get it out into the world? There's so many moving
parts and stuff. And then two, if you do have your podcast, well, what is your workflow? Like
how are you editing your show? How can I support you in creating a better workflow? Because again,
there is so many hats that you put on when you're a podcaster, you're the host, you're the producer,
you're the writer, you're the marketer, you're the promoter, all of this stuff. So I just help
streamline all of that and just make it a bit more of a pleasant experience because the fun part
is when you actually get to use your voice and get behind the mic. Yes. Because you know, I started
with a YouTube channel and then I started my podcast at the beginning of 2020 and I thought it
would just be the same, you know, like speaking to my people. It ended up being so different,
speaking to the camera and speaking to the mic, right? It's like there's so much more intimacy,
so many more quiet moments or you have kind of like you have more space. I feel like I'm much more
connected to my audience when I speak to the mic and they also say that my voice is different
when I, well, it's a different microphone. So that matters to that, yes. Yeah. But they definitely
tell me because I think I have a lower voice when I speak because I'm not projecting it to the
camera that is far away from me. I'm speaking here, right? And then my voice changes or my intention
changes. So I think that's really like having a podcast is such a beautiful way to connect with
with the people you want to connect with. And you know, we have a lot of teachers, especially
language teachers watching this. And I know that many of them are playing with the idea of
starting a podcast or they think like, should they do it? So what would you tell them and what
tips would you give them if they want to start a podcast? Well, I want to get back to your point
to about how your voice is a little bit different on the podcast. And that's because audio is
such an intimate medium. There's no visuals involved usually on a traditional sense, just like
radio. And so you can get into that vulnerability. And when you do get into that vulnerability,
your voice shifts and lowers. And so your voice is slightly different. And it's an intimate medium,
not just for you as the host, but for the listener as well. If you imagine, some people listen to
podcasts when they're doing the dishes, going for a walk with their dog, and they've got the ear buds
and they're listening to only you and your voice. Or sometimes they are in the shower in the
bathroom. Like, you can't take a YouTube channel with you to the shower. No, you can. But
right. So as the listener, you're in your in their ears in a very intimate setting in an
intimate place. And so they are more receptive than to your message because you don't have those
barriers. It's like being naked in some ways, right? No, really. It does feel that way. Yeah.
Yeah. And so with a podcast, you can definitely connect with your learners a lot more deeply
through your voice. And as English as a second language, it's all about the voice as well. So
why not use that as a great way to connect with your students? Yeah.
Oh, absolutely. I think this is it's definitely growing. Wouldn't you say like the podcast
industry, the podcast industry? Yes, especially with COVID in the last year. So before COVID,
there were almost one million active podcasts. And now this time last year where we've hit over
two million, we doubled in the past. Oh, wow. Yeah. Although doubling sounds like a lot. If you
compare that to a blog, there are about 700 million blogs. So we're not even close to bursting
any bubble or anything like that. And there are we're welcoming for more people to podcasts
because we haven't reached a threshold at all. Yeah. It's just a fun little playground.
It's a fun little playground. A great way to practice your English and your fluency.
Yeah. And I was afraid of starting a podcast because I was afraid that I would get stuck
because like, I don't know why on camera, it was easier for me than thinking about starting a
podcast even though, you know, I don't have the camera. Yes. Like I feel like when I know that people
seem the entire me, it felt more comfortable. So it took me a while. I wanted to start a podcast
for years before I actually started it. So yeah, there is like a lot that goes into that.
So if someone wants to start a podcast, what should they do? Well, first of all,
it can be as simple and easy as using your phone and just recording into your phone.
So that is a simple way of doing it. But again, because it is an audio-only platform usually,
the sound quality is key. So if you want to grow your listenership and have people listen,
you want to make sure that you are recording in a quiet space that perhaps you get a microphone.
You know, microphones can be as inexpensive as under $100 US price, Canadian price.
And it's a USB. You can just plug it into your laptop and you can record that way.
But knowing that, okay, let's make sure you record in a room that doesn't have a lot of hard
surfaces or the dog isn't barking and that you are in a space where when someone is listening to
you, they can focus solely on your voice and not the ambience. That's in the background.
Yeah. Like Echo is a big thing that you have to manage when you record, right? You want to make
sure, like go into the closet or something. Yes, hi, I'm in a curtain. The old radio tricks when
people had to say like here in Canada, we have the CBC in the States, it's NPR, it's the public
radio when you have to record your little segments. People would make little pillow forts or like
set up two chairs and put a big duvet or a blanket over it and they go underneath and record because
that those soft surfaces will absorb the reverb and echo in the room. But if you don't want to do
that because it can get hot, sometimes you're recording like a long podcast, you can get a little hot.
But if you have like curtains on your windows, just draw the curtains. If you have a hard table,
maybe put a duvet on the table. So any soft surfaces or furnishings, like a living room is great
versus recording in a bathroom. Yes. Yeah. And and you can edit it out when you record a podcast
and you cough, you can edit it out. No big deal. Yeah. So it's easier to edit an audio than a video,
you know? It's like, oh, it's unnoticeable. Oh, yeah. And sometimes in editing, like there's
magic tricks that, well, they call it magic tricks. But really, for example, if over Zoom, you
know how sometimes the audio drops out or like you're missing the ends of words because Zoom is doing
it's buffering thing. The internet is not strong. But in audio, you can't actually, for example,
if you, if the word at the end of the word then S is missing, you can take that sound from
somewhere else and then cut it in so that the whole word can still be heard, which is kind of magical.
But I love doing things like that. That's like my bread butter, my background in audio editing.
So do you edit your own podcast episodes? Yep. Yep. So part of the business is editing
people's podcasts as well. And I edit my own. I was going to send that to my, I have an editor
that I also work with. But I feel like my podcast is my baby. And so yeah, I edit it myself and
make sure that it's how I want it to sound. I love it. By the way, can you tell us a little bit
about your podcast? Oh, of course. My podcast is called the podcasters guide to a visible voice.
And it's all about what we're talking about here, empowering you to use your voice and to give you
tips and tricks on how to shift the way you sound and how to podcast more successfully.
And I'm going to link here to your Instagram account where you share stories and useful
information and everything so they can connect with you here. Mary, is there anything else that
you'd like to share or any other tips that you'd like to share with the audience?
What you were saying before about starting a podcast and you're like, oh, I don't know because
you don't have the visual element. It took me back to this one client I had. His mom was the one
that hired me, but he is a 14 year old podcaster. Wow. And he started with a YouTube channel as well.
But then when I watched those, those were great. He was this outgoing, boisterous, 14 year old boy.
He is an aspiring chef. So they decided, oh, I'll have a podcast. So the YouTube channel was like
his cooking and stuff. But the podcast he wanted to interview chefs so that he can learn from them.
But in the podcast, he didn't sound like himself. And it was like, well, where's the disconnect?
So after we started working a bit more, I realized whenever he got behind the microphone,
he felt like he needed to be professional. So he would stand straight. His hands were always
clasped at his lap. And this is how he would talk. Because now I am a professional podcaster.
I am talking behind the microphone. But even though we don't have that visual aspect,
because he said, well, on YouTube, I need to use my body because people can see me. And I'm like,
well, why can't you still use your body when you're behind the microphone? Even more so. No one sees
it. You can do whatever you want. You need to take up more space. And you can be comfy in your
pajamas if you want to be. You don't have to be all buttoned up and be this professional. I'm
going to have a radio voice now. No, you can still be yourself and use your hands and use your
body and create those silly voices and be this bigger person or get small and be vulnerable and
get closer to the mic and share that emotion with someone because you can through your voice.
Which all goes back to this idea of permission, you know, like just be yourself, give yourself,
take up space, don't have an idea about how you need to sound just be yourself, speak like yourself,
not like anyone else. Now, like speak like a native or that radio host that you love or whatever,
you can use that as an inspiration. But like that's the thing. People really connect to
you when they recognize that there is something genuine and real and authentic about how you sound
and how you connect and communicate. Yeah, exactly. And it is about let it go. You know, let go of all
the the sheds, the goods, the I need to be doing this because someone once told me that. No,
like why can't you just give it a shot, give it a try, be goofy, be silly or get out of your comfort
zone. And then if that really is too much out of your comfort zone, just bring it back a little
bit more. And then eventually you'll figure out what is your comfort level. Yeah, just try out
different things, try out different things and dare, I think. Yeah, dare. Oh, that's a good word. Yeah.
Mary, thank you so much for sharing all that knowledge and stories and like the beautiful you
hear with with everyone. I I loved hearing your story, especially loved your story about your
relationship with your parents and how that was for you. And definitely a lot of useful stuff. And I
think that on your website, people can get more information, can find more information.
Yep, sure. Yeah, I think if you just Google Mary Chan and podcast, you can find her website
easily. Yes, yes, I used to be not Googleable if you just go Mary Chan because there was a
bazillion of me, not my name, but now you add podcast to it and you're like, oh, there she is.
There she is. So definitely go and look her up and follow her on Instagram. How does the rest of
your day look like today? The rest of my day was going to be talking with some of my clients
launching their podcasts. There's someone that's got their show launching. I'm so excited for,
you know, you start that path of from idea to launch. The launch is just so exciting.
It's a podcast editing. So that's that's usually my day. Lots of audio involved. Yes.
All right, Mary, thank you so, so much for taking the time to speak to us. And thank you,
everyone. Have a beautiful day and I will see you next week. Bye.