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Welcome to the usual end of season joint podcast, Brian Winhorse of the hoop collective,
Zach Lo, me of the low post, the Denver Nuggets.
The Denver Freaking Nuggets of Denver, Colorado, with somebody coming out behind us,
who's obviously very popular, are the 2023 NBA champions.
It was ugly. It was a defense first game.
Bruce Brown scored the game winning basket, then there were some free throws.
Jimmy Butler almost did an exact repeat of game six against Boston, where he was like,
something wrong with Jimmy Butler, and then all of a sudden three-pointer, three-pointer,
controversial three-shot foul that was upheld. I'll tell you what, man.
He's going to steal this game.
And then the Nuggets grinded it out at the end.
A last real possession, I guess, last possession going badly for Miami and Brian.
That shot.
There are some franchises where it takes a lot of the national media time to realize
how good they are because of their history.
It happened with the Warriors in 2013, 2014, 2015.
We're like the only reason people didn't realize how good they were about to be.
It was because they were the Warriors.
The Nuggets.
The Nuggets have had some success.
80s were fun. Mellow was fun.
But I think people were slow to realize that this team was a true blue
championship contender from day one.
As soon as Jamal Murray got healthy, he didn't have a great game tonight.
Yokech is just that dude, man.
Yokech is just that guy.
Terribly inefficient game on both sides.
It was an absolutely ugly game and he still was beautiful and efficient.
Somehow he was the guy.
He was a shining guy who came through.
Nobody could really do anything and he did.
And look, this is just a really beautifully built team.
Really, if you go back to the moment they drafted him, that was kind of the beginning.
It's been eight years.
They missed the playoffs his first three years.
They had setbacks along the way with injuries to Porter, Jr.
and Murray.
But they got nothing, no player demanded a trade here.
They got no lottery luck.
They got, there was no trade that they made that like,
they stole it.
I mean, the Aaron Gordon trade was an excellent trade,
but the time that wasn't let people were going,
oh my god, that was a breathtaking trade.
It was a good trade, obviously.
They just built it from scratch.
It's a, if you have an NBA, if you're a fan of an NBA team that has struggled,
that isn't close right now, the way this team built it,
and if you're not on a coast, the way this team built it is admirable.
I mean, the first team from the Western Conference to win the championship,
that wasn't from California, Texas, since the Sonic's in 79.
And our fifth different champion in the last five seasons in the NBA.
And a lot of talk, particularly surrounding the heats run about how maybe
because of the talent distribution, because of LeBron getting old,
because the Warriors getting old and Durant leaving years ago,
because of the new CBA, we're entering an age of parity, maybe an ultra competition.
And maybe that's true, but these guys are walking in the door next season,
if they're healthy, as the favorites to win the championship again.
And Nicoli Okic, 41st pick in the draft,
had a promise from the nuggets that kept them in the draft, they kept their promise.
He's now the greatest draft pick bank for the buck in the history of the league,
and it's not close anymore.
Jamal Murray was the seventh pick, and I was talking to nuggets people all day the last two days.
They were sweating in that draft room, with Chicago picking it five,
and Sacramento picking it six, thinking man, he's not going to fall to us.
Chris Dunn, Buddy Heald, and Jamal Murray fell to them, and we can go into the other roster.
I mean, the highest draft pick they had during this run was Dante XM, isn't it, right?
No, it was a Murray.
Murray, seven, XM is Utah at four.
But they ended up with XM, sorry, the XM played here.
And oh, I see what you mean.
And they also overcame a disastrous, I think 2017 draft day tray,
where they traded out of the Donovan Mitchell pick for trade liles and a 20-something pick
that became Tyler Leiden, and they learned a lot from that draft.
You talked to them, they learned a lot.
We're looking for versatility, and they were targeting big guys who could maybe slide to the wing.
And they wanted OGN and OB in that draft, they couldn't get him.
And he doesn't fit that profile, I just described it.
And after that, Tim Connelly, who made the Yokech pick, and walked in here and said,
we got to scout Europe, Europe is where it's at.
And Calvin Booth, who's done a fantastic job, one of the sharpest guys I know in this business,
said, if we're looking for defensive versatility,
instead of looking for bigs who can slide down,
we got to look for big guards who can slide up.
KCP, Bruce Brown, Christian Brown, it's a beautiful team.
Yeah, you know, when Yokech, his first summer league,
they were like, he could be okay.
We might have a rotation player, the one like he showed up,
and was like, oh my god, this guy is an absolute steal.
They were like, okay, he might be all right, he might be a second round pick that makes it.
They didn't, they didn't foresee that, they didn't, they didn't see a comment.
Well, it's like the spurs always said what you know, Obli,
if we were so smart, we would have picked him into first round,
is that it's the second round.
Right.
Speaking of Yokech, two very, in very, very boisterous Serbian guys,
handed me this Joker energy drink, one of which I have in my house and my TV background.
I never actually tried it.
I think now it's the time, there's no chance it's going to taste good.
Zero percent chance.
It says, uh, that's not bad.
In the age of COVID, you can't try it.
Now it's not one.
Right, yeah, I don't want it, I wouldn't have wanted it anyway.
Ooh, that, that'll, that'll sting your teeth.
Oh yeah.
That'll, that'll, that'll, that'll, that'll, that'll, that'll leave a burn.
I'm drinking it.
I can't drink beer right now, so I'm going to drink the Joker energy drink.
I can smell it.
It smells of, um, sugar.
It smells of horse dung and saddles.
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Should we talk about the end of the game or should we not?
This game so much reminded me of the 2016 game 7.
To the point where it was almost the exact same score but in the fourth quarter where neither team
could score Zach absolute warfare under their under the basket.
Oh so the referees were just staring staring at files and just being like look we're not calling it.
We're just not doing it which is why that call I tell you what I think the league is a little
bit fortunate that the Nuggets won this game because had the heat taken leverage from the Jimmy
Butler three foul three shot foul we would have been hearing about it for two days and we might
have been hearing about it even more if they won in Miami. It was not the greatest moment and
I don't I don't quite I'm sure there would have been a pool report with referees had that gone
through there was obviously a reason why they left it there was some contact to Jimmy's leg
from Aaron Gordon's groin area I guess that was a brutal call a brutal brutal call in the moment
in a moment where they were allowing hand to hand combat so I am glad that that call will not
be remembered because I was worried about that because the game was a beautiful ugly game up
until that Jimmy Butler five of eighteen twenty one points because you had nine of eleven from
the line so you had twenty one points total I'm just going to go through the end of the last five
minutes of the game. Yokech makes a pull-up to put him up by seven eighty three seventy six just
destroying the zone the numbers won't show it every time Yokech got the ball in the zone they
got a good shot they just missed a million three's a five of twenty eight from three um Jimmy Butler
twenty four point three point shot okay that kind of came out of nowhere KCP makes a three oh
back to seven wait wait wait the KCP shot was amazing KCP made three or four plays on the
stretch of this game I have no idea what his wrist how bad his wrist injury is I don't even know
if he'd been able to play in game six he was playing out there with one and a half hands and he
that shot was a brutal shot I don't remember who made the contest the contest was all over him his
heels were almost on the sideline that was a massive massive shot Jimmy makes another three
to get it back down to four points then the three shot foul so that's nine of twenty one points
for Jimmy Butler like a two-minute span he scored thirteen points in a row then a ten-foot pull-up
jumper then two more free throws let me just say coming off how many points is that thirteen
those two free throws came after Kyle Lowry's tips out the offensive rebound Kyle Lowry
played at a championship performance in this game he didn't get the championship he's already
got a ring he didn't need to prevent anybody but he was brilliant in this game he finished four of
thirteen oh of five from two four of nine from three yeah but it was a great performance twelve
points nine rebounds for us this and they kick ahead that he gets the heat are just like oxygen
for them um and then the Bruce Brown put back is what ends up being the game running back to it
to hand combat under the rim and Bruce Brown comes through there and gets the put back
of a Jamal Murray miss I mean in the moment you could just feel how big it was when he did that
you're like oh my god that's a a moment for Bruce Brown's career that put back is a movement
for Bruce Brown's career and I felt that the nuggets you know I heard Michael Malone say going
to the fourth quarter maybe we're tight we're missing a lot of shots I also thought maybe they
were maybe it's always impossible to know right are you analyzing from the result backward now
they must be tight but I also thought they were playing for the home run ball a lot both like
guys dribbling up into crazy threes early in the shot clock early corner three from Aaron Gordon
in the shot clock I'm gonna be honest with you and then some of the turnovers remember the one
where they just like started falling all over the court and throwing the ball around like what are
you doing look I'm gonna be honest with you Zach the nuggets were spectacular throughout this
entire run they win four one they are spectacular champions the heater at home in game four
in a five point game with Yokech on the bench with fouls with the sprained ankle
and they're unable to finish I'm able to finish eight minutes to go five point game that's a
game they could have had you know the Yokech and Murray were not having good games that night
Yokech with only four assists they were 13 of 36 I think those two they had shut down the
two-man game that's a game that if you're gonna win the finals you have to have this game
they are is a terrible nuggets offensive game terrible nuggets offensive game and again if you're
gonna win the championship you've got to have it and a heat can are gonna kick themselves
I don't want to take anything with nuggets but he's gonna kick themselves these last two games they
could have them well it felt as it was happening like a heat game like they're gonna win the turn
over battle by a lot and they did they had to to win these games and they were gonna out shoot
Denver from three they just didn't do it enough they were nine of 35 and they made tough three
like Kyle they made it through like out of nothing guy was just in his face I thought they found
something with Duncan Robinson and Bams two-man game in the second half when the Jimmy stuff just
wasn't what I wouldn't say they found anything I think I was a wing in a prayer the whole way
well they got a few they got a few bad it's like this game was so you know the nuggets are one of
the great offensive teams an NBA history I think they were top five and offensive now we get two
teams every year than I know but so they were great got the whole playoffs offensively and so for
them to win the game to win the title with defense because their defense in the second half especially
was awesome the only way that they were that the heat we've been able to crack them was that little
Jimmy flurry they were all over them their rotation they were totally selling out I don't know if
these teams would have had anything left in game six it felt like it was an awesome game and I
also thought of the Warriors Caves game seven just because like you could feel the franticness
of the effort yeah and you could feel like the closeouts the rotations the way they were chasing
and trying to slow down to keep guys in front of them it was just a frantic game that's what you
want that game was 83 89 and this game was 94 89 so the heat broke 96 points once that's
right they average games I had to do the math but they came in to this game averaging 98 points in
this in this series now granted the pace was slower but they averaged almost 110 points against
the Celtics they averaged you know probably 96 or 97 in this game and they never they only shot
really well from three in one game and you know the Nuggets get credit for that the Nuggets played
great defense last few couple so okay one one other thing I want to say I think you're right and
we've all talked about it a lot that the Yokech five foul stretch even though tonight was so
nip and tuck down the stretch I think that goes down as a the cut the critical defining stretch of
the series and it was Jamal Murray's stretch it was you want to know why because they stopped double
teaming him because Yokech came out of the game and they said okay we're not going to we don't
have to defend the two-man game we're going to play him straight up and he cooked him he cooked him
on that and that was kind of odd also I thought you know look Yokech is the reason they've got the
trophy back in the locker room right now Murray is secondary I thought Michael Malone was brilliant
in this series he knew what his team needed to do after game two he tore him down he built him back
up he got him in a great head space the way their defense of intensity changed between two and three
I think was a product of his motivation and when Yokech had the five fouls the lineup that he
elected to put out there worked that was it was a small lineup that was not what I would expect
and it worked and those two things alone earned him his hand on that championship trophy I talked
to a lot of people the last 72 hours about that stretch there was a certain calm and confidence
about the nuggets like I never heard anything about some big ra ra speech in the huddle like this
is the moment you got to step up these are the stakes one there was never any big ra ra speech in
the huddle like we've got to step up up up they all just knew what they had to do the same thing two
two Phoenix they were super confident they were going to win that series there was just like a calm
about the team and Michael Malone Van Gundy says at every broadcast they could have fired him they
could have fired him they suck with him like let's get specific they could have fired him after
16 17 when they trade Nerkich and Nerkich kicks their ass in a late season game and basically sends
sends them home says clip clip the one and only clip tell people who you are what Jim clip Jim
clip I'm your guy well what do you do I'm the vice president of scouting but I'm your guy I'm a
professional your guy I don't drink but I got stuff all over me and you do too now when when did
you first lay eyes don't do that when did you first lay eyes on the colioke um Rafael you
chart international scout did a great job identifying international guys I don't know the day I don't
know the day I'm rejoicing Wendy I'm rejoicing Serbia was it where did you see Serbia and then we
you know we drafted them and then we went and I'm aware that you drafted Nicole you know we spent
time by the way clip clip no we'll get that and we'll get that out of the to your content is this
live yeah we're it stop hey good draft pick with yoga yeah it's good good draft pick great
person too Kristen Brown good draft good draft pick with Christian Brown the that was that was
Calvin Calvin stepped his foot for that he sure did he said we needed a guy with championship
pedigree played 40 minutes in the national championship game played I don't know how many minutes
tonight but he was like very few rookies can play in the playoffs Christian Brown can play in the
playoffs quick clip good draft pick Jamal Murray not bad huh this guy you were slow all home grown all
home grown built fostered watered the plants and they blossomed good draft pick Michael Porter Michael
Porter what there's a theme here right but we have Michael Porter's coast to coast pushes tonight
got Jamal in open three in the corner like that we have a lot of weapons on our team I'm not
trying to sound trite or hackneyed but we really do hackneyed I dropped the word hackneyed on this
little interview where you where's the party where you do today I'll text you yeah I don't say
not just Jim Clibb that's Jim Clibb enough but nuggets vice president is scouting he's in a good
mood what just happened I don't even know where we left I don't know but he just wipes champagne on
your oh Michael alone they didn't fire him then didn't fire him at 2018 when they lost the winner
take all finale against Minnesota didn't fire him 2019 when they lose to Portland at home a game seven
because they could tell something's happening here and there's a resiliency and a toughness
and he's got a feel for the group exactly if this team had washed out in the playoffs this season
he got he might have gotten fired that's absolutely true and they didn't wash out they know he's
been well well let's talk about what they did 16 and four is one of the best all-time playoffs
records of the last 30 or 40 years and John Hollinger went through all of it today there's only
like a couple of teams with better records and that since the Jordan era their net rating ended
up in plus I'm actually going to push off that 16 and four and say 10 and one because they went 10
and one they went two two in the second round okay and they went 10 and one after that you go 10
and one I mean that's all-time stuff never trailed in a series only true moment of stress really
was game five against the sons and they won that game handily at home and then blew the doors
off of them in game six in Phoenix and by the way like these last two series the Lakers played very
admirably they just outplayed them and in this series the heat were out manned and certainly
didn't have the offense but he played admirably they didn't play their best basketball but they
this wasn't you know I some of the like that that couple of those runs that Golden State had
one year they went 16 and one I don't think they faced the competition level that the Nuggets
just faced well and they also just with the rant in those three homegrown guys there was just no
chance that they were healthy I mean it was not fair it was like not competitive right right
um my I'm one other thing I'm Michael Malone he committed his thing from day one is we got to
get good enough on defense we might not ever be great we got to get good enough it was a rocky
road and he demanded and demanded and demanded and probably sometimes the players are like dude can
you just stop yelling at us he ripped that it worked how many times and by the way like they
would sort of incrementally get better like they were like I don't have it in front of it feels
like they were 27th and they're like 23rd and they were like 14th and they climb they climb they
climb they finally got to be a good defensive team and they I'm telling you they won these last
three games with defense their offense was not great and I would like bring you Colin Gillespie
yes absolutely come on because you know what Colin Gillespie does he wins championships okay Jim
cl- this is Jim Clibb is back he wins world championships Colin Gillespie right here it's no fluke
okay what can we get back in the glory this is it Colin is smoking a cigar yeah
that when we win whatever happens you know when they talk about when they talk about the players
who we haven't seen much of yet that we're going to see next year they they mentioned conglass
me they don't just they don't just mention Peyton Watson and I want to know when you guys had that
film session after game two and everybody had to call somebody else out for a bad who did you
have to call out I ain't calling me out we were just talking about you were you were assigned a clip
what was your clip that you had to tell everybody that we just had to play harder no no no you can
tell us now you had to you had you got to call out your your catch for not not doing rotation you
can say no I'm not calling the call out hey look you know what you know Nikola in an ugly game just
put up a 28 16 and 4 on 12 of 16 shooting and it's just effortless effortless hey congratulations
go go celebrate don't celebrate don't stand up we talk about the heat for a second come on he
deserved to tell us what happened in that thing I mean he probably just got bonus points for
my two way man he's not giving up anything okay but the two way guys had to call out the
regulars they had to be like they had to be like Jamal you know I got to do everything possible to
just he wasn't just suck it on that cigar he was smoking he was smoking that cigar you now have
I know have cigar smoke on me and you have champagne I don't have enough champagne on me yet
because I liked I like these games I like these close out games I like when the suit smells like
champagne hey prime members did you know you could be listening to this episode of the low post
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that's m is it marry in the number one to get started here ago we were sitting in Boston and we
watched this that we right in this moment we it was after game six then and we were you know
looking at the warriors and saying man amazing and maybe they got more in them and everything like
that and here we are one year later not quite to the day but like 360 some days and we're in Denver
and I don't think we would have foreseen sitting in Denver celebrating the nuggets so let me ask you
this 360 some days from now where are we going to be sitting who are we going to be talking about
well we do have a whole offseason of player move in to digest but I'm not going to hold you to I'm
not going to hold you to what I'm saying right now you look at the western conference
tell me the team as things stand now you're picking over Denver I don't think there is one
we could very well be sitting here again and I think I I keep saying this this we would have been
maybe not here with the confetti I think we would have been here in the finals already
head Jamal Murray not gotten hurt they were tracking right to this moment when they traded
a fair and Gordon those eight or 10 games after he got here they took this is what I mean by like
I don't think it's surprising that we're here they were in my inner circle of contenders
the only thing I don't think it's surprising they didn't play well after the all-star break
they they now that part of that was because they had a big lead on the first seed and they're
instead of to play well was low but they they didn't come into the postseason blowing people's doors
off and I think that also threw some people off as well there were you know I think they were
12 and 11 after the break and you know they were great but they were not like they they did not
look like they did earlier in the season they're way they played these last this last month again 10
and one maybe lost one time I think they I think since May 7th lost one time you know it's someone
was telling me before the game just about the seriousness of their team just as a random
conversation I have with someone from the nuggets once last time you saw Nicola throw like a fancy
no-look pass I'm like not I don't feel like I've seen one of the fancy ones in a long time like
he's just he's just making the right play calmly we the two things we just talk about number one
he now is on the throne the best player in the world and I don't think I've certainly
honest could have it arguing right now it's it's Yokech and I do think we should spend a few
minutes just like we can't just throw this heat thing to the side and forget it happened this
was a cool thing it was a special thing and I know Yonis got hurt in the first game of the playoffs
I think what they did was real and they were a legitimately threatening contender who as you
pointed out to the bloody end tonight made the nuggets earn this game and they have draft picks
that they're disposal and they potentially have tradable contracts and I think they're going
to go hunting for a star that's what they do I don't know if they'll get one I don't know if
the it'll break their way there's other teams out there interested in it and I'm not going to
sit here and tell you who it is because I'll get aggregated but there are players that they're
keeping an eye on and they have the ability to do it especially if the player says take
send me to Miami and if I you know they have a little window here before the the second apron
kicks in where they may be able to spend a little bit of money they have they have some draft picks
they can trade after the draft they get access to 2030 thick they have the 18th thick in this draft
not that that's super interesting but I don't think they can beat all comers on a star trade but
if a player says send me to Miami in the next two weeks they are not in the worst position of all
times and that has happened before when players have said Miami both in free agency and in
signing trades and that's how Jimmy Butler is here and you know people are going to not bag on him
but people are going to say well where was the Butler who was just all-time dominant against
Milwaukee and early in the Boston series even even after the Nick's ankle thing he had a couple
of monster games against Boston saying man this is hard I agree this is hard he just he'll never
tell us he'll never be honest with where he was physically he just won't he will never allow
anybody to have that out he was not the same offensive player after the sprained ankle now I'm going
to say something else he played pretty well in this series he his numbers in game four were good
he like 28 and 11 in game four like a 9-17 his numbers tonight were not he's not going to feel
good about this performance but he's still almost bailed him out but for them to pull off an
upset of of the nuggets or even to really extend the series they did need you know the all-time great
Butler and he was not able to deliver I don't think that should be an indictment on him but
that is a true statement and bam after a sensational first half was quiet very I think
he had two points in a second I mean I don't know how much we want to break down this game but in
the third quarter there was six or seven possessions where the heat had great
reasonable percentage looks they made like they just couldn't get a basket there and it was a
ten-point game Denver called timeout if you really want to break down the game whatever they
just been say made the timeout it's got six points the heat never got leverage again they missed
a whole bunch of shots makeable in there and instead of going into the fourth quarter with a cushion
which is absolutely necessary it would they were up by one and they were in real trouble to try to
win this game there is one thing we have to talk about that happened in the game Deandre Jordan
played three minutes and was actually kind of good blocked a shot held up on defense and like
it's a little thing Tyler Zeller played 60 seconds ago Cody Cody sorry Tyler sorry to all these
elders and the plumlies who may be listening like it's it's a little thing like he survived three
minutes in a game they barely won when they were everyone was in foul trouble in the first half of
there just you could feel the nuggets being like if we could just be within like eight nine seven
and a half time you knew they were going to play Yokecchi the entire second half of the game and
we could we could they could make a run and they did just enough by the way again to 2016 just
this game not the series just this game Spolstra an excellent coach putting Zeller out there
versus Azalea vibes with Kurt start the point I mean I just don't know he tried love it center
in the first half which is move I've been waiting for that was whatever I'm just saying the game
was a five point game and he was he lost some five points one minute I just want to give both
of these teams there do because there are going to be revisionists who just don't really believe
that either team is as legit as legit as legit who are going to say hey this team is legit he got lucky
and be well the nuggets played a bunch of lower seats and I've said all like get that SHIT
all the way out of here for both of these you if you've listened to me at all you know I don't
stand for asterix nonsense this nuggets team is awesome bona fide awesome champion and it's
it is he team was excellent and it's not it's not even asterix it's it's just factual like
the number one seed you get an easy opponent relative to your seeding in the first round second round
Phoenix tough as hell beat them beat the pants off them third round the here a LeBron and AD bad matchup
swept them competitive sweep as sweeps go swept them and they he just beat all comers except this
team this I wouldn't say this was a gentleman sweep because it was too hard fought for that but it'll
go down in the books as a gentleman sweep so um are we gonna wrap this up any parting thoughts
on the Denver nuggets congratulations to them they've earned every single iota bit their fan should
enjoy it there hasn't been a champion the win in its city in a long time I think 2017 and that
was in gokland and you know nobody actually stayed there we are in the middle of the city now
albeit she's to see what's going on outside this arena I feel like it's been a long time since
since a team that's whose arena is in the middle of the city I'm getting flashbacks to when Kevin
Artemis had to drive me back from San Antonio and basically broke every traffic rule in existence to
get us back to our hotel because of the streets we're just mobbed with people in 2014 well I think
that was last and even then that's not really in the city no that's a hike so this is a
arena in the city so I want it is a Monday night so I don't know and they have they just they
have last just one last year it's not like they've gone out dead lung of a drought but no you're
right and so I saw kcp for a second after the game and his agents from clutch are here and they
said he gets to have a parade this time because the Lakers won in in the bubble there's gonna be a parade
probably in about 48 hours all right you got to do svp thank you Zach for doing this hey thanks
to our producer Adi Khan who dragged himself all over the country and through many different
security parameters to do these podcasts thanks to Jim Clibinoff calling the last beat giving us
nothing boo calling the last all he gave me was a cigar smelling suit jacket and congratulations
to the Denver nuggets a beautiful team to watch and a deserving toughest health champion
and we'll see where you and I are doing this one year from now maybe it's right back here maybe
it's somewhere we couldn't even think of Brian Winhorse thank you very much Zach Lowe thank you thank
you very much we'll see you I don't know the draft is in like 10 days we'll see you guys time
two days that's okay for listening everybody