Emergency Dame Pod

And now, the Loaf House. Welcome to the Loaf Post Podcast at 620 Eastern Time. We are about three and a half hours into the Damien Lillard Milwaukee Bucks era. Holy smokes a three team trade between the Bucks, the Sons, and the Blazers, and Bobby Marks and I on this very podcast nine a few short days ago. Spitballed about could the Bucks, could the Bucks get in here, could the Bucks actually do this? And we say, hey, Drew Holiday, the one pick, a couple swaps, like that doesn't seem like enough. Is there really going to be this like mega deal for Drew Holiday sitting on the other end of this for the Blazers, eh? You know, I said an idiot said, I still think Miami, I still think it's probably going to just inertia is the word inertia Miami. Well, inertia never really got the Blazers in the heat back to the table. I don't think we will talk about the heat and how big if at all a missed opportunity this was, not only not getting Damien Lillard, but if you were of the school of thought that oh, teams are starting to keep their powder dry for Yannis and maybe M.B. and of course Miami is always one of those teams that's in those conversations. They didn't really get too hard into Bradley Beal. They didn't really get to hard, haven't really got too hard into James Harden because they're saving chips, saving chips. Well, this increases the chance from whatever it was yesterday to whatever it is today. It's a desire that Yannis will be a buck for a little bit longer. They anticipated the last time Yannis put immense public pressure on the Milwaukee Bucks the last time Yannis's contract extension was an uncertainty. The Milwaukee Bucks acquired Drew Holiday from the New Orleans Pelicans in a midnight post midnight mega deal. The next time today, now that Yannis put pressure on the Bucks, that Yannis's contract extension was an uncertainty. The unforgiving world of the M.B.A., the Bucks flipped away Drew Holiday for Damian Lillard. This is before we talk about how exciting and interesting Lillard and Yannis together are. The best player each of them has played with a ready-made pick and roll combination that accounts for potential Chris Middleton's stagnancy that Chris Middleton never becomes the high-volume pick and roll handler. That was when it really mattered a couple of years ago last year he couldn't quite get back to that. That accounts for the Bucks late game offense, pooping the bed time and time again against my every time they come across Miami in the playoffs, including last year. That gives the Bucks a reliable crunch time weapon. All of that that hurts their defense a little bit, but Yannis Proklopez backbone should solve all problems, many problems on the perimeter. Let us take a moment to talk about Drew Holiday. That standing tenure for the Bucks despite some playoff hiccups and one of those players like fans are always going to love Drew Holiday and Milwaukee and deservedly so because he was part of a title team. He made two of the three or four most iconic plays in this era of Milwaukee Bucks and NBA basketball. The steel from Devon Booker in game five of the finals with like 18 seconds left strip, Milwaukee up by one, Drew Holiday sluffs off Chris Paul in the left wing. I can close my eyes and see it just rips the ball from poor Devon Booker unsuspecting Devon Booker's hand like Jerry Seinfeld taking the marble rye goes up the other way up one with 17 seconds left just stop and get fouled by man. No, throws the most audacious lob pass in the history of the NBA team honest for the end one. All you all but clenching game five effectively putting the Bucks in the driver's seat for the series. And then the next year in the series that you might be tempted to throw into the dust pin of history because the Bucks lost it because the Bucks didn't have Chris Middleton because the Bucks without Middleton probably weren't going to win the title. In one of the best wins of this era for Milwaukee, they go into game, they go into Boston in game five, two, two, also up one, also potential last possession. Drew Holiday swat the living hell out of Marcus smart from behind throws the ball off of Marcus smart seals an absolutely inspiring game five Milwaukee win. They go out to lose after an absolutely inspiring game six Celtics road win. I had Drew Holiday's second team all NBA on my ballot last year. I thought he deserved way more all NBA buzz than he got. This is a significant player that the Bucks are sending out. Never forget that in the excitement around getting Damien Lillard a one man top five offense. The second most dangerous pick and roll long range shooting ball handler ever made on planet earth behind only Steph Curry. Drew Holiday's a real player, but Bobby as I finally welcome you in and stop you happen. When we did that podcast there a day, we were spitballing about maybe it wasn't you. I don't remember anymore. There was what it was what but it was what there was another statement we're talking about. What could the Bucks get if they put the one first round pick they have available on the trade market along with Grayson Allen Pat Connid and we're talking about Buddy Heel. That's what he's talking about. But I spit balled on a previous podcast other other players. Maybe they could go for a book Donovich in Detroit. Tyus Jones, you wouldn't do the unprotected pick for these guys to be clear. You'd protect it. And I got some feedback from fans and from around the league. Well, don't you realize why would we throw that draft pick away now. When if we just wait out this season, the honest is still on our team is still under contract. We could aggregate three picks. We get we we we exhaust a couple of obligations. We get a couple more picks to trade. Think of what we can get for that. Here's the reality that those fans didn't understand and the Bucks clearly did. They did not have this year to wait. They did not have the luxury of time. They did not have the luxury of falling short this year. If they fell short this if they did nothing and fell short this year. It was a disaster. It was Defcon one. It was the whole league lining up waiting for the trade request and I think the Bucks being mentally prepared emotionally prepared to grant the trade request. They did not have time. They did not have the luxury of failure. So here we are. Damien Lillard. We could quibble about whether he's the greatest blazer of all time. Bill Simmons put on his old man yells a cloud hat and lectured everyone about Clyde Drexler and Bill Walton. For my money, Bill undersold Damien Lillard in that conversation is the clear number three. Yeah, he was never number two in the MVP didn't win or ring like Bill Walton didn't get into the finals like Clyde Drexler did twice. The dude has 19,000 something points as a blazer and some of the most iconic playoff shots in the history of the game. And just propped up this team that was never that good around him always showed up gigantic guts, let's say every single game. And now that year is over and the blazers, they don't just get you holiday. They don't just get the one unprotected 2029 pick good on them for getting a far out pick. Too far out swaps from the Bucks also unprotected. They get Deandre Aiton from the Phoenix Suns a player they've always liked and Tumani Kamara from the Suns who was a second round draft pick worth a flyer. They will surely flip through holiday for more draft equity of some kind. And so they were able to spin this into oh yeah, all you fake trade artists thought Miami was going to offer us three firsts, Yovic, hero, we're going to turn hero into at least one more first. That's five firsts plus a young player, whatever it's bad if you want to use, we're going to get if you count the swaps as first. And we do even though we'll see, we're going to get five draft assets plus Deandre Aiton, the number one pick in the draft who took help to team didn't take a team help to team to the finals not long ago. Phoenix adds depth and this year little in Grayson Allen and Keon Johnson, we'll talk about them later. Bobby, I always like to have you on because you know the league so well and you're always going to alert me to some CBA wrinkle that I didn't didn't remember in real time, but I just want to start with you emotionally as an observer of the league as a fan of the league. You have all these teams and all these players involved here. What's the most important thing to you? Well, the most important thing is where's Drew Holiday going to wind up? That's the most important thing and I said it on TV that right now Portland for me gets an incomplete based on the unknown on where Drew Holiday can wind up and what team goes out and gives two first round picks, a nice young player, multiple picks with the comfort level that Drew Holiday is going to get a massive, whether it be extension or a new contract and is going to be paid handsomely. The unlikelihood is that we don't see Drew Holiday as a free agent as much as the Dame part going to Milwaukee and as much as Phoenix building out their bench and getting some depth. I think there's another piece to this and we'll talk about it as far as whether it be a fourth team, whether it be after this trade is you know, whether it be two months from now or a month, you know, whenever the aggregation rules can be lifted here. What happens to Drew Holiday and is it in Miami? Is it in Philadelphia? Is it in one of these other Eastern, Eastern conference teams? That's probably, that's my sense when I look at the, when I look at it from the perspective. My other sense is that and it's, it's funny. We talked about, and you were on with me yesterday on Tuesday when we did like, we talked about holiday and it was complex, you know, Milwaukee and Portland, why we, they had to get a third team involved. Then we did that Boston trade, right, and we had eight and go in a Phoenix. And my wife said to me, did you get that right? And I go, no, honey, I said, it's like playing the lottery and you get three out of the six numbers, right? And you go to public and you get eight dollars back. You feel pretty good, but you weren't quite there yet. And I think that's why we showed the complexities where this wasn't going to be a clean deal. Like this wasn't going to be like a four for two type deal. And as we saw, this is expanded with Phoenix and Milwaukee and Portland. And I think it's going to potentially, it could get bigger or, and, but there's going to be a part two to this with holiday. There might be a part three. Well, maybe Grayson Allen here, but I just think big, nobody's sticking, nobody's sticking around for the third sequel with Grayson out. I think big picture, Zach, and we wrote the article, Bontemps and I and Paul Collier back to Yannis and how drew holiday was the X factor. Listen, at the end of the day, this gives them a massive insurance policy for Yannis, where holiday could have been a free agent or maybe there was a comfort level not paying him big money and they were going to be stuck with nothing next off season if he would have left. Well, we'll get to drew holiday because I think, I mean, you could, he's, he's just such a, he's a great two way player who can shoot threes and handle the ball. Ideally, I think it's a secondary ball handler. That fits on any team. I mean, despite the fact that our last memory of him on the basketball court is Jimmy Butler beating the hell out of him and talking trash and apparently Jimmy Butler went on Twitter or X or something and said some stuff today about tampering. I don't really know, I don't know what inside info Jimmy's got. Make it somewhere, buddy. I guess he did and, you know, you make the interesting point about, you know, the double loss for a team like Miami of not getting Dame and also seeing the chances that Yannis hits the open market sooner rather than later being decreased by some amount. I mean, it's not like a fail safe now, but certainly this is a few Yannis you're looking to this like, all right, I wanted my team to be all in. Damien Lowe is a first team caliber, first team all NBA caliber guard, like he wasn't last year, but I had him third team because of all the misgames last year is maybe the best year of his career. And yet Drew Holiday may end up on one of these teams in the east that feels a double loss today. So they may get helped secondarily, indirectly by the dominoes of this trait, the tentacles, tentacles. Why do trades have tentacles? They have tentacles that reach around the league. But I think to me, you just got to start with the bucks and Damien Lowe being on the bucks. Two of the top 75 players of all time, according to that list that came out whenever on the same team, the bucks sacrifice some real some some real depth with with Grayson Allen going out the door, a starter, along with Drew, two of their five starters. I would project their starting five as of now, Damien Lowe, Chris Middleton, Pat Conneton, Yannis, Brooke Lopez, the wingstoppers gone. The guy that throw a Jimmy Butler has gone now, you can say it a either it doesn't matter because we didn't when it counted, we didn't have one for Jimmy Butler, b maybe Yannis is ready to assume more of that role, even though he's going to play the four a lot. And then the bench is, you know, kind of a whole bunch of will sees other than Bobby Portis and Jay Crowder didn't play much last year. This is kind of a bet on Jay Crowder being able to play much more of a role, including defending some of those wings. And then the sort of mystery box of like Malik Beasley, Bo Shamp, some of the guys they drafted this year. And you know, it's it's it's not risk free in that regard, but I think the nuclear effect this will have on their offense, having someone who can spread the floor and run the show like this when it really matters, having someone to turn Chris Middleton into less of a sort of like, oh my God, we need you to run every play down the stretch player and more of a mixed player, more of a catch and shoot player. Someone to shove Yannis back into more of a pick and roll screening role, which he was in huge volume when they won the title, unless so last year with Broke Lopez spacing the floor, I think what that will do in terms of spacing and just ease, everything is just such a slog sometimes for this team when it's not in transition, the half-court offense has always been their their weak spot. I just think the catalytic effect of that is going to be huge to the point that yes, there's going to be some questions on defense and depth to getting the Yannis at center, which is not a card they've really wanted to play, but it's still a handicap to have is a little harder as of now with the two wings out the door in exchange for a point guard. Those lineups, there are fewer of them and they're smaller. But if I've got Yannis and Broke Lopez on the court, I should have a pretty good defense and if I need to, I would like to have a third guy feel like I can really count on Bobby Portis is in a defensive guy, but if I've got those two guys, two first team all defense players, if those guys are first team all defense players, if there's this whole Broke Lopez should win defense player of the year thing, now I couldn't quite get there with Broke, but he's really good. Your defense should be good enough that the boost to your offense both in terms of efficiency, clarity is worth it to me and I think given the mess in Philly, given that Damien Lillard is not in Miami, although they're not done, given that Boston, who could be a Drew Holiday team too, is trying to reimagine itself a little bit, I think Bill Waukey has turned itself in, turned its season from this is going to be so pressurized every day as to be potentially uncomfortable to favorites in the Eastern Conference. I think there's, I agree with you, and I think there's two other things, I think Terry starts there, right, in Milwaukee, who had Damien for what nine years, I think in Portland, so there's already a comfort level, and I know whenever you have a rookie coach and aging Griffin and you have a star studded lineup with Yanis and Damien and Chris Middleton and certainly Broke and you got the expectation level, I think this trade is kind of a little bit of a reverse effect, I think there's kind of like, okay, we can breathe now, the the honest factor, we don't, who knows, you know, I mean, this helps, the honest factor, we get off to a slow start, now I got to figure out, do we need to trade Drew Holiday at the deadline, what's going to happen with Yanis next year, I think the having Lillard was Adrian Griffin, the right hire for sure. Yeah, exactly, now you have Lillard and is, you know, four years that he's left on his contract, it's almost like, if we're using a football analogy, it's almost, it's almost like you're acquiring that, that running back who can run for 1500 yards during a season, but you traded your best defensive play, you're locked down defender defensively, you've traded it a little bit, but as you said defensively, when you have Yanis and you have Broke and you can figure out that, you know, the schemes, that helps, it's not like a Lillard's going to a place where he's going to be an island by himself. My questions and my concerns would be, certainly, you've got point guard depth and a lack of point guard depth and you already had that with holiday on the roster because you've got deeper, they got deeper point guard somehow. Yeah, it'd be because you really had, you had two two way guys as your backups, and then as far as what your bench is going to get you, you take a starter from Allen, you put content in the lineup, and now you're relying on, you know, certainly the Jay Crowders, the Malik Beasley's, Bochamps, you know, a Jay Green, like, you know, it's a mystery box. This was a, I mean, this was a top heavy roster. You had, you had eight guys making between, and you still do, I mean, 2.8 and 1.1 million dollars, and you parlayed what you had left with of your draft picks into, you know, into Lillard. You know, Kevin Peltin pointed out his piece, you know, it's an obvious takeaway, but it's still interesting to hear it set out loud or written, out loud, written, just written. The bucks don't, out loud would have been books on tape. I've never been a books on tape. The bucks control none of their first round picks in the allowable window through 2030, in which teams can trade first round picks. I don't know, has there ever been a team that's been out all seven under no control of all seven of its picks? Maybe, well, I don't want any bad memories for you, Bobby. Well, Phoenix right now, right? Phoenix right now. That's right. That's why they traded, yeah, swap rights for seconds in those creative deals. You know, they traded, picks to New Orleans for Jew holiday, and now they've traded the rest here. And is it dangerous? Sure. Does it leave you as Kevin put it without a net, if Yannis leaves? To some degree, sure. I mean, you still have Damien Lillard. He's going to be aging, but still, maybe he don't, maybe he leaves, who knows? Like, where's Kissinger? Are they all leave? What are you going to do? Just not, not do it and have this, and have this potential likelihood, whatever of, this is Yannis is the whole thing. As long as Yannis is in his prime, or even just past his prime, he's the whole thing. He's the, he's the, he's the whole franchise. He's the only reason you're doing this. And I just don't, you know, you're not, you're not a free agent destination that can tear it to the studs and get two guys to come at the same time, whatever. I get the downsides. And Kevin, by the way, gave the trade to be plus. He's not slamming the trade by me. He's just pointing out the risk. And if there's always risk, um, I just don't know what else you're supposed to do. And there, it's only one pick and two swaps in this independent deal. To me, it's clearly worth it, and it must do. Even with Jew holiday, it's also Jew holiday. And it goes back. I remember when David Griffin, that Pelkins, president of basketball operations, was in Cleveland when LeBron was there, the, the second term. And I remember him saying a quote saying like, when you have like the Babe Ruth basketball equivalent on your roster, like you do everything possible. Like you, you, you, you know, whether it be draft picks or trading players. And if they lead, he leaves and there's nothing left in the kitty, then he, you know, that's, that's kind of where you are. I mean, you basically have thrown everything. And he's 28. He's not 35. And he's a total no one. Like, I know is the Milwaukee bucks because I've seen it that I can be a 55 to 60 win team and win the championship with the right kind of piece of pieces we already have around this guy. Well, and it's, and it's funny too. Like I chuckled a little bit when I honestly, I don't know what podcast it was, but he said, you know, like, you know, I, you know, well, committing long-term, whether it be, you know, Milwaukee and I, they've got, you know, wherever I go, it's got to be, you know, committed to winning and stuff. And I chuckled just because like, here's the team that's one, the most games in the last four years, regular season games. They've been in the luxury tax the last, they're in the luxury tax for the fourth consecutive year. John Horrister GM has gone out and gotten Peter Tucker at Deadline Abaka that didn't turn out, well, Jay Crowder last year. So like, the attempt is there, right? It's not like, you know what, you're the best player in the world, you can figure it out yourself here. Like they've, they've tried to add to this roster, whether it be in an agrees now and traded with, with, with Memphis here. And now this is, as I said, like this is who they are. Like they're going to be, they're a second apron team. They're, they're going to get into next year where they're not going to be able to buy, draft picks, they're not going to have their exceptions. Like, you know, who they are, you know, is basically the, the, the four headed monster of, you know, of Lopez, Lillard, Connet, Middleton and, and Yannis. And it's about Bobby Portis. So there's still some depth with your, you know, among your, among your bigs. And they've played, I mean, like you'd like to be more comfortable playing the Yannis, Portis, Lopez, Trio, having dealt away two perimeter players for one. You'd like, because those are three of your top six, you'd like or three of your top seven, whatever you want to say. You'd like to be a little more comfortable playing them all together. They've done that before. They did that in that bull series a couple of years ago when they went ultra big. Maybe we see more of that as just a way to get more of their best guys on the floor. And look, Yannis, you're already half in, right? They're already half in with their picks out the door. So once you're, once you're half in, it's, it's, it, and you have a player of Yannis to stat your 28, not much injury history, although this knee surgery in the off season is, is a new thing, but not the kind of injury history that would make you fret at all. You just kind of, you just kind of do it to keep the train rolling as long as you, as long as you can. At the Home Depot Saturdays are about two things, doing more projects with Ryobi and football, with just the pull of a trigger, dominate yard debris, dominate that yard debris, and leaves with ease without the hassle of gas. And the 18 volt, one plus battery platform is you can go from yardwork to DIY and just a click. So you're get projects done faster. The cordless blower is perfect for football season with patent and whisper technology, although make sure your outdoor space is tidy, and you can hear the game while you do it. Get ready for the game with Ryobi and the Home Depot. How doers get more done? Let's talk about the Portland and Miami and maybe less so Toronto angles of this and then Drew Holiday. What do we know? Damien Lillard wanted to go to Miami. Yeah. Stated it so plainly, publicly and privately through his agent that the NBA warned his agent and other agents. Don't do this. And we talked about this Miami offer. They could, unprotect this pick. They owe the thunder offer three picks and maybe hawkes and hero and maybe a flip hero to Brooklyn or Utah or wherever. Like it's not a bad offer. I called it the Turkey Sam, a dry turkey sandwich of offers. Like it's always useful. You know, it's not the worst option to have around. I need to drive it. It's a good midnight snack. Squeeze a little mustard on it, you know, mayonnaise. But it's not a bad offer. It's unclear to me if the heat either because Portland just didn't want to engage with them or because the heat played it cool and thought we have the inside track here and they're definitely going to come back to us. If the heat ever really made that kind of offer, I actually don't think they did. And again, it's 6.45 right now. It doesn't, you don't digest every angle. You don't do all the reporting of what happened and didn't happen. Even though you're doing some of it along the way in three and a half hours. So I don't know exactly, I can't sit here and pretend to know exactly what was offered and when and anybody doing that I think is, you know, fudging in a bit. But I don't think the heat made the best in final and I'm not sure what level of engagement there really was. So what does your take on like, did the heat drop the ball here? Did Portland just not want to touch the ball? What level of regret, if any, should Miami have? You know, we did a five on one of these five on five pieces with Dave McMahon and Tim Bontemps. And the last question was like, I don't know if it was regret or basically on a scale of one to ten. Does Miami regret not doing? I put like a two. And I just, I listen, at the end of the day, there's a certain set of principles in Miami as far as what they're willing to give up. You know, we kind of, we all talked about hero and a third team and, um, Lowry and the draft picks, um, and swap rights and stuff like that. And I think if you're, if you're, you know, one or two things here, like if you were Miami and you gave them the kitty, right? Like whether it be, um, Kel Martin in the Yovic and Yackez and hero and swap rights, that's what that have gotten done. I don't, I don't know. I don't, I don't know from Portland's perspective, if that would have, um, still would have gotten it done. And I think from Miami's, there's always a sense, there's always going to be that guy out there. Now, here's the problem. If that guy was Yannis in, in Milwaukee trading for Damien Lillard keeps Yannis. Now, who's that next guy? Um, and as we, we, we opened it up like, could their sense be like, Hey, we're getting the tea leaves that it could be, you know, drew hot, it could be available on the trade market. So maybe what we were willing to give is now at less half, half the cost here. Um, and I think there's a feeling that their roster is, is still good enough without Damien Lillard on the roster. And we'll, we'll, we'll know. But we talked about it last week. It was puzzling at how a team where one player wanted to go, Lillard wanted to go to Miami and how there were such a disconnect from, from both sides in that theoretical heat give everything offer, which I don't think was ever offered. I personally like, if I had to bet, I don't think that was ever offered. I don't know that they've talked like that the right, the decision makers have actually like had a conversation in a quite a while. That, that kitty as you put it leaves me as Miami with, you know, Duncan Robinson, the big three, obviously, of Dame Butler Bam. Yep. Duncan Robinson, Josh Richardson, Thomas Bryant, you know, Kevin Love is back. Justin Champenny, hey, what high Smith? You said, you had Lowry going out in this deal for salary purposes. Yeah, for salary purposes. Yep. And so I, I think the heat just said, if you're, if you're asking for Hawkez, who we think it contribute now, Yovic, who we hope can contribute soon, if not now, based on how he played in Fiba. Caleb Martin, who was our second best player in the NBA finals, maybe, or, you know, for shred, or I'm sorry, for parts of the playoffs. The conference finals against Boston, I should, I misspoke as when he really excelled finals, not as much. We're just too thin around the three guys. We're too thin. Is that right? I mean, this is a team that has been very thin around the top three guys and found a way to make it work, you know, sometimes you need an extra offseason to find your next Ray Allen or Mike Miller or whoever it is this time around. And you can't blame the heat really for just thinking, well, we're keeping all those guys. We get healthy Tyler hero who we didn't have. Got Josh Richardson, who'll help us probably will turn whatever magic the heat worked on in the first time. They'll work again, probably ends up being really good for them. Who knows? Hey, we just made the finals. This team just made the finals. The year before we were a shot away from making the finals, the year before that we didn't do so good. The year before that, we were in the finals again in the bubble. Like, why shouldn't they be confident in their ability to make the finals with this group? Or to make that necessary to make the finals like a deep playoff from with this group and keep their powder for due holiday or somebody else if Portland didn't want what they had it. I think Portland maybe just didn't want what they had. You know, one GM put it to me like this, usually in a trade, there's one asset a team really wants from you to make it work. The heat did not appear to have that asset. No, I don't know what that is in this trade. Maybe it's the unprotected pick in 2029 or whatever. I thought those heat unprotected picks out into the future with a team that would have been older built around Dam and Jimmy. We're going to be pretty valuable. We can agree to disagree on that, I guess. You know, you can understand the heat being like, hey, we're good. We're good. Even though they almost lost in the play internament last year and you know, are they going to be an injury depth, whatever riddled team in the regular season again? Like, it's hard to read exactly what the heat are going to be going forward because you can spin it either way you want. You can spin it like they're fine. And they're probably off on their heat, but damn, that big three, that big three is damn near perfect together, damn near perfect. And I don't care if they never talked for two months. I don't care if the heat's best offer would have left them down to the studs and they wouldn't have done it anyway. You got to feel a little, a little pang of oof today. Well, yeah, I mean, because certainly because you didn't want to get in the Bradley Beale. I don't really want to call it sweepstakes, but in the mix, right? You didn't want to do that because you could have, if you wanted to. Very clearly they could have. Now, Lillard is not available. And you can make the argument where the counterargument from Miami's perspective, well, we're giving up too much where we're our depth. Well, you guys are the gold standards as far as figuring it out, right? You're the gold standards as far as finding those untapped under the radar type guys to fill out your, to fill out your roster here. But on the other end, you're also looking at it big picture wise as far as, okay, if it's not Beale, not Lillard, there's going to, we have enough to go out and still get somebody there. Whether it be now, whether it be at the deadline, whether it be next off season. Here's the pang over grit. Even again, even if you think this is a perfect reasonable decision, we don't know that they even had a decision to make. Portland may well have made this decision for them. It's got to be now. Jimmy Butler just turned 34 two weeks ago. He's the best guy. If your best guy is 34, it's got to be now. Now maybe the current roster is good enough, but if you think you need an upgrade and the heat, I think could use an upgrade on offense, could use a third best player who's maybe a little better than Tyler Hero. The time to do it is now. How do you, the Toronto thing we went through already? How do we digest what happened here? I think how we digest it is that they stuck. They're telling a deep end and it was the water was too cold. I think that's how we, I think that's how we got what does that mean? I'm trying to put my swimming. I think how the cost and the risk was just too high for them to pull the trigger on on something like this, because at the end of the day, it would have cost them probably OG, right? We'll take barns and let's see how come out and then whatever, whether it be Grady Dick and basically filler to get to that number and then your draft equity here. Now, OG and Enobi more or less valuable as a trade target than Drew Holiday. That's a great question. Because if he's equivalent and he's younger, they're both on expiring deals. He makes half as much. He's like seven, eight years younger, whatever he is. If he's equivalent, then logic would tell you the offer would have been Enobi, one unprotected first round pick and two unprotected swaps. Maybe they don't value Toronto's picks the same because they don't see the same kind of downside. Maybe it was maybe they wanted more than that. I don't know. I just put the question to you is like, is Drew Holiday that much more valuable than OG and Enobi? He for win now teams in a year of parity. And I think that's what the blazers are betting on with Drew Holiday is there's a lot of teams I think they can win the title this year. Yeah. And that's going to make for a fraughty Drew Holiday market. Maybe Drew Holiday is a proven guy had on my LNBA team last year versus OG and Enobi who's always like, oh, maybe this is the year. Maybe this is maybe is that much more valuable? Well, I mean, it is interesting because when you as you when you as you mentioned that like you do that and the eight in pieces now not right? Like so what it how does Portland and value DeAndre eight and so now you're thinking like hey, wait a minute. I can get two cracked maybe two cracks at the apple here. I can get DeAndre eight and and a first from Milwaukee and swaps and then turned Drew Holiday into something else where where it's it's OG. I'm going to have to pay him because he's going to let he'll turn down that extension his free agent if he opts out next year. What's the number 34 35 40 million maybe for your to be your best player, but probably the third best player on a good team if you look at it that way. And that's what we're kind of stuck with where you're basically as you said, like there's tentacles to these trades now like there's different there's the tree is still growing where there's only one kind of branch if it was just Toronto. And I think there are tentacles or branches Bobby pick one. I know branches. I think that's you know like poor like but here but it all goes back to Toronto like eventually like Toronto and I know it's all about Lillard but eventually Toronto is going to have to figure out what they're going to do with this group, right? Like eventually like we talked about it you lost Fred for nothing you turned Kyle into you know the Drogage and precious a few years ago back OG's got a player option Pasco's going to be a free agent. You've got to like you got to you're going to have to figure out like as far as what direction they're going with this group. I'm fine with Toronto demearing here. You know you got to ask yourself whenever the price is OGN and OB and some amount of draft equity maybe Grady Dick maybe not OGN and OB and like all our draft equity and Grady Dick and filler whatever it is are we good enough today to win the title as presently constructed with Dame at 33 Siacum at 29 Barnes at 21 or 22 whatever he is as our three tent pole guys and there have been teams 2016 calves come to mind with age distributions of your top three players like that with like an older guy prime guy super young guy it's happened before the Raptors when they won the title had Kyle Lowry, Kawaii Leonard, Pasco Siacum in that kind of order. I don't mind Toronto coming to and Toronto you know has chips and they've always had chips and they didn't cash them in for all the guys that have come you know down the line all the disgruntled stars so far we don't know who the next disgruntled stars are going to be and they looked at this one and said 33 point guard how good is our team if we get them what's the opportunity cost of all the picks going out the door yeah we could get them at a cheaper price than some of these other star trades that have happened because there's a sort of go bear correction going on or go bear deal type deal fatigue but it's not the right time for us and I think that's totally fine for the Raptors. No I mean I mean it's it's told I mean the risk I mean I think the risk is that a year from now Damien Lillard is there by himself in Siacum somewhere else and you're basically like uh we've got to we're basically Portland again and with a player that's year older and we're going to have to figure out where to flip him to I mean that's that's a huge risk. Well that but that's that's still a risk right me like that's that's that's what the they and an OB and Siacum like are these just ticking time bombs like do we need do they need to do something because one or both these guys can walk if we don't extend them or they don't want to be extended in an OB case Siacum is extension eligible now right now today I mean they could give them an extension yeah he's I mean I think we're past values got to be careful of these relying on making all NBA that there's a super max waiting for I think you got to be awfully careful if that's you know the direction that you're kind of going and and with OG he's only he can do four for one 17 and I'm told that that's something that he will not consider and he'll play out this year and then become an unrestricted for Asian if he declines that option what when he declines that option. Let's talk about the eight in Nerkich Phoenix angle of this because Phoenix is obviously all in to win right now and traded its starting center a guy who whether he liked it or not did quite well is the screen dive screen dive screen dive defend really well role defended Yokech for a playoff series it's ancient history now I get it better than and Yokech didn't have the guys around him past same spacing passing targets all that defended him pretty well he's gone and in his it is places use of Nerkich who in the last four seasons is played eight 37 56 and 52 games still is only I believe 29 years old and that's an interesting center swap to say the least for a team that really needs to win today yesterday yet use of its 29 and they also get in his sheer little and Grayson Allen and those won't be the headliners I think those two guys are big gets for them because although they did a great job filling out the minimum the wing on the minimum with your baits deops and you know that they got Eric Gordon on the minimum that's a no-brainer but Josh Akoga you taught want to not be Damien Lee's back and on and on and on did a great job with those contracts these guys are Grayson Allen's approving guy like we know what he is and what he isn't the guy can just flat-out shoot he can play against playoff teams you don't want to start them maybe against playoff teams they don't have to and to see your little injuries have really heard his career he's got a chance to be pretty goddamn good as a as a supplementary 3-in-D-ish player he could switch across a lot of positions he's pretty strong the three looks like it was coming before injuries really submarine of last year those are those are good gets for this team what do you think though I mean ultimately we know Phoenix is going to have an crazy offense those three guys are are that good they're going to have to have a passable defense and I said this last week eight and they needed eight or I said at the time last week and I said of a reason whoever might replace eight and if they trade him to be good enough defensively to hold this thing together at a level you can win four playoff series what do you think of that center swap well listen I well how I think of it is that you basically took a 32 million dollar player and you broke it up into no offense to can johnson you broke it up into three players with Nercage Alan and little and it helps your depth and littles on a tremendous one of the best rookie contri extensions that I've seen in a long time and what happens to grace and Alan does he get flipped for something else like great point both of them are valuable trade ships too yeah and the thing the the and you know it's when I wrote an article during the summer like how phoenix is kind of looked ahead where these new rules are coming into play like they still like if this was next year like they wouldn't been able they won't be able to aggregate those contracts in it in a deal here now they they can you know for up until you know that you know once the restrictions are lifted in a trade here so I think it's going to be interesting especially with you know with Frank Vogel defense and minded coach the buy-in from Nercage certainly I think certainly you hit it right ahead the health the health point as far as the ability to stay on the core that's going to be the kind of you know if there's a risk involved it's that it's that of a player you know certainly who's got three three years left on his contract but so did eight in at the end of the day and the reality is that you know phoenix felt that they could have held on to eight and and maybe flipped him closer to the trade deadline but you're probably breaking up that contract again but you you you do that in this deal here you know the same hell true for eight know though he's been much more durable than use of Nercage the last three or four years at least I mean if Nercage gets hurt I like drew you banks just fine I'm not sure I want to play in 30 minutes of game in a playoffs bowl bowl not not there she may as he met you as an interesting flyer as a backup big he's a flyer and I don't mean a high fly I mean a flyer flyer the idea of Durant at center always sounds interesting it's it's rarely actually executed on the floor because it's just a lot it's a lot to ask him even though that team would score like 140 points for 100 possessions I think eight into Nercage is a down grid I don't even think that's arguable I think Nercage has lost a quarter of a step in the last couple seasons defensively and not quite as mobile as Aiton not as good of a jump shooter as Aiton although he dabbled in the three he made 43 threes last year which I think is more than he made in all his prior seasons than that but the more and by the way I watched I because I'm writing a little bit about eight and next week I watched all of his pick and roll defensive possessions in the postseason and he what he was better than I remembered I remembered him really backsliding defensively in the playoffs and kind of just losing containment losing the balance of I'm backtracking with my man in the pick and roll but I also got to contain the ball and there was some of that but a lot of that was a credit to just how good Jamal Murray and Nicole Yokech are together like he was a little better than I remembered he is never ever going to finish with force ever he's never going to get to the foul line he's going to catch the ball unoffence stop pivot spin away from the basket and drive everybody absolutely insane and I don't the more I thought about this although I do think it's a downgrade and I do think it's a risk I think the sons are betting Nerkich is still a solid defensive player and when Portland has been competitive and you look at their on-off numbers with Nerkich both shots allowed at the rim shooting percentage at the rim which was bad two years ago with Nerkich on the floor but it's generally been good and their overall defensive rating with Nerkich on the floor has generally been quite good they're betting that guy's still here he is not going to want the ball as much as Aiden not crave a bigger offensive role not have and look the friction between a lot of the team you've know a lot of the team is new and Frank Vogel bought an A and the friction was obvious there were some playoff hiccups some playoff non appearances that were there they just were there and and you know he's just going to buy into his role screen dive he's I think he's a better passer than Aiden on the move Aiden is a very good standstill passer but when the game is in motion I think Nerkich is a little better passer in the short role he's a horrid finisher for a big man and he's going to miss a lot of layups if you thought he's but he's at least going to try the layups which could lead to offensive rebounds he's not going to stop and pivot and spin the more I think about it getting little and Alan I like this for Phoenix enough I think the downgrade is real and the risk is real but the risk was already built into the team to some degree and and the the Aiden thing may have just been too far gone I don't mind it for I don't love it because the Nerkich bet makes me nervous but I like it enough with the wings coming with it yeah I mean I think I think Kevin gave it a B I want to say B B minus somewhere around there and I just kind of have kind of how I feel about it you know I think I think it's more of it you have your three big with three aunt um booker and in um in Biel and now you're looking for a center to kind of play a certain role that you didn't think Aiden could and as you said you you added some depth in wings that you've tried to do and listen they did a nice job in the office season based on what the limited budget that um that they had let's move to Drew Holiday who is the next with apologies to James Hardin and it really might be apologies to James Hardin if the Clippers get involved here uh is the next obvious domino because unlike the Sixers who may have some hopes of reuniting with James Hardin they also may have hopes of acquiring Drew Holiday themselves the Blazers have no hopes of doing anything with Drew Holiday but trading he's going to be traded it's just a matter of when and I even think I even think like listen trade's not done it's a you know it's agreed upon three teams I think there's a chance that this expands the four teams I think I think you know but when we get to I don't know what was this one Wednesday Thursday Friday at this period of time it's because it's a lot easier to rope in a four team and get involved and and do it that way um and I think if you're Portland right now you're on a phone what teams whether it be the Clippers or Boston or Philly or Miami or anything I ironically imagine imagine imagine now we're engaged to talk to Miami you know like why not why not you hey it's separate you separate the Lillard trade to what now it's onto Drew Holiday here and and I think if you're it's business man it's just business yeah so if you're um if you're Portland I think the goal for you is to get is to to when this deal gets done that Lillard is on another team that there's a team holiday I mean holiday is on another team um easy easy let's say easy whoo all right so we're so give me your give me your give me your favorite you holiday teams well I mean I think certainly Miami right so now are we you know is Kyle Lowry those two first oh how about we stop there why do I got to give anymore if I'm Miami yeah I think I think maybe I think I'd add a little more money there how about this how about Kyle Lowry and to thank you to you Donnis Haslam and a sign in trade give you a nice little five million dollar bonus do you retire I have a whole bunch of heat paraphernalia about his retirement he I don't think he said in his paperwork though you got to remember to send in the paperwork um but I think yeah I mean I think that's it um you know from Miami's perspective here I mean yeah Lowry's at 29 million Drew's at what 36 36 yeah 110% of that I think is I think you're just like three million dollars short um you know Philly Philly is interesting um there's been rumors about holiday in Philly as a free agent if he got to free agency here um does Philly go you know like that's more that's is out of three teamer because you know it's certainly not going to trade Maxi for holiday that doesn't that doesn't make sense here um does that involve Hardin now um that you know I think that's I think that's intriguing in itself yeah the the whole Philly Clippers Nexus can get reactivated here I'm not sure what the direct trade with Philly is um like what I guess Portland can then flip Hardin I don't know what exactly it would be but that's that's possible Philly can only trade one first right yeah correct the Clippers can trade two and obviously James Hardin wants to go there like Drew Holiday he's on an expiring contract unlike Drew Holiday um there are no illusions uh Drew Holiday would have no illusions about like I want to dribble the ball a lot like a super duper amount is much and more is quite Leonard and he is um there are there are fewer hard feelings upon Drew Holiday's departure than there seem to be um upon James Hardin's departures and fewer worries about well I mean Drew Holiday hasn't been awesome in the playoffs but you're just not going to count on him to run the offense the way James Hardin wants to run the offense and there's this whole dynamic with Portland like the packages that weren't good enough for name and I think that was always the problem through and that three team trade with Clippers Sixers Blazers is are the Blazers getting enough even if Maxi's involved are they getting enough stuff for Damien Lillard well you if you turn your noses up at that for day maybe wouldn't for Drew Holiday so I think all three of those teams are good and he give me some more well I mean I I think you know certainly Boston but you raised the I mean you raised a good point on TV yesterday I like okay can you afford all these guys you know can you afford or is it just or is it just a rental like it's holiday unlike unlike Dame when we were talking about on TV like at least you could say well this is just one year let's go for it yeah I mean that's that's a good way to look at it you know so what do you look so what do you look at it what's the deal there I know what it this what is Malcolm brought with this Malcolm Brogdon do anything for you in Portland as a mentor type with this young group he's a Malcolm Brogdon already advanced into Mentorhood and now he's 22 and a half million for the next two years good player like Clippers wanted him could flip him somewhere probably yeah but what's this but I'm still $14 million you still you're still you're still like $12 million short I mean that's I mean that's that that becomes the issue you've got all the draft equity Rob Williams is the missing salary there and quite a good player has good trade value um the problem is Boston's already kind of thin has has an incredible top seven and below that a bunch of question marks I'm I'm I trading two of those top seven for one even even if he theoretically fits better um do I need another ball handler this badly now again like I that's self-decept three centers so they would trade from a position of strength to a guard position if I don't want to say weakness because Tatum and Brown can do guard stuff they will do guard stuff and if the blazers just traded for Deandre eight and do they want Robert Williams a third too I mean that's it's a complicated one it is um and now I turn to the Clippers now let's let's just look at them Portland and the Clippers here like if you're the Clippers and you've been reluctant on basically kind of trading multiple ones for Hardin and you're kind of just an ad expiring route do you go in there thinking Terrence man salary filler you got all these expirings and now do you put those two ones in play for holiday I think the two first most more than man have been the division between the sixers and the Clippers those two first if they're unprotected given the Clippers um how all in they are on 30 something players right now and Drew Holidays and other 30 something player those two first are viewed around the league as really really valuable potential trade pieces it you know even though the Clippers are now have established themselves as a place in Los Angeles with the new arena coming they can get star players to come and sort of buffer themselves from the catastrophic downside you can have having all your picks out the door those picks are still really valuable I do think the Clippers want to do something I just don't know what the price is I do think there's a fear there that that the the the conference is maybe not passed us by but our best our best shot has passed our best our best window with this team has passed still open but the widest window has passed I just trade makes a lot of sense though yeah I mean it's kind of a lot I mean can you can you imagine that you got three players not what player options for next year and three guys that are extension eligible anyone else um what do you got all right I'm glad you asked a lot of people are are nominating New Orleans hmm I get it I guess that's I am I trading CJ McCall I got like they kind of have to trade CJ McCallum back to Portland in that deal because it's probably not going to be ingram certainly not going to be Zion the other salaries I don't think they will think and couple it all the way without trading both their centers in balance units and nants so CJ McCallum and draft assets for drew holiday it's interesting it's not not sure I see it but it's interesting is there a way to do without CJ am I missing something I mean you could I'm always missing something Bobby so I mean you could wait until herb Jones's trade restriction if you can wait until January valentuneus herb Jones filler draft picks yeah valentuneus herb Jones Dyson Daniels draft asset yep herb Jones is good yeah drew holidays better then you get the Portland back court herb is only is already 25 years a little older than people um um that's a good that's a good one it's a good one uh I a couple of teams I thought about I mean Toronto people have nominated just because they were around Dame I I don't know what the deal is for them I mean obviously they could use drew holidays very good I I'm a little less enthused about that at first blush that Utah whoa not on my list make the case for me well I mean I'm just looking at it's kind of like point guard by committee um Quartentucker Chris Dunn Collins sexton you know sitting on a bounty full of draft picks here um what makes sense for them I mean there's like sexton olympic gotta add a cup there's something else there and then draft picks not bad I don't I don't Toronto I don't I don't I got to think more about Toronto I'm still in digesting mode um I'm on Toronto's week can I give you a couple of Cinderella teams yeah that's good by the way I tried so here are the two teams I tried I really tried hard with Sacramento yeah just because I love the idea I just love the fit there yeah hard to make a deal right now with Harrison Barnes not trade eligible till January right yeah December 30 December whatever and I I just don't sense a great hunger in Sacramento to to like shake it up after the after last season and Lana I wish hard to do hard to find a good deal that makes any sense having traded a lot of draft picks for Dejante Murray love the fit there though um I'll tell you this if I'm the nix I am really tempted I am really really tempted yeah Milwaukee just beefed up they're scary but I had this whole thing on TV last week of like why can't we wake up in May and with now this was pre-damed in Milwaukee but with the top of the east a little that I want to see even rickety like Boston's not rickety they're just like a little different we gotta see how it works like I think the nicks are really good I think the nicks are good and deep and tough not good enough high-end talent wise I think to make like the finals but I said why couldn't we wake up and like things break right there in the conference finals losing the conference finals but still what a home run that would be for the nicks they gotta be tempted because their their concern is like if we make one move we got all these picks they don't have like the blue blue chip young guy so if we if we put all of our stuff into one basket and and one of those baskets Yannis might not be a basket available to us anymore maybe we'll see do we have enough stuff left to upgrade the team that was the Donovan Mitchell concern this is a basket that's not quite as pricey like if I just if I just go out there like all right RJ Barrett like like we got a lot we got all you know we got Josh Hart and Donovan Chenza who kind of can do like the big guard in Josh Hart's case you know can slide to the floor has a slide to the floor we love RJ RJ's developing I don't know there's a way to do it without RJ Barrett um you will be able to success that out for me um if we put a couple a couple of picks in like could we get drew holiday jail in Brunson Julius Randall we still have Hart Deven Chenza Grimes quickly maybe extension eligible and just like take a shot take a shot with this team and still have enough left over that if somebody or someone becomes available by trade in the next 18 months we've still got enough left because we have all our picks all our swaps all these extra picks none of which are particularly sexy but they're still picks I would be real tempted if I were them yeah I mean you you've got Barrett you've got that 48 contract yeah I can get like 40 I just don't think like 48 plus Mitchell Robinson no whenever whenever is like doing it for Portland no that doesn't that unless I'm throwing in way more picks yeah I mean you could you know what I'd be tempted though so I starting center it's my starting center I got to start Hartnstein then tempted well you say and I'd be tempted you got 11 first round picks seven of your own four from other teams including that Dallas one that's you know um that's got some pretty good value and you can trade up to seven so Barrett as Barrett and two ones too much the Dallas first and something else I think Barrett and two ones makes I like I'm a little more if you're a Barrett doubter and maybe there are some of those in the next brain trust I don't really know as soon they all are Barrett believers they paid Barrett he's good two ones is a lot because then you can you turn around and if you're Portland you say you know we got RJ Barrett DeAndre A and and three ones and two picks swaps it's not bad I just don't know that the Nicksever Road map there that's for me I mean what's the non-barrett offer does it have to wait until Deven Chenzone's trade eligible to for his 11 million dollar salary to help yeah I mean it's all just don't it's almost maybe is it quickly plus forney a plus another it's got like it's that was the the issue when when all the hard stuff came out and and late June early July and they they had said to Nicks and then it was like well how do you get to number right like how do you get to the number you basically it's like Robinson or forney a and quickly you know he's basically a piece milling like three out of those four guys there um to do it I think I think there is some appetite there within the nicks I mean Tom Tibito's their coach they made the second round last year they've played Boston really well in the regular season for whatever that's worth Philly's it got some it's going through some stuff I think there's an appetite there for some kind of short term upgrade so long as it doesn't handicap their ability to make the big a big upgrade that this team has been leaning toward designing its future toward for years now I'd be tempted the team that would be a lot of fun and they have an extra first round pick and I believe they control all their firsts they have a bunch of seconds Indiana you through you throw Drew holiday a veteran two-way wing who can shoot and play defense throw him into the starting lineup for bedmatherin like I who I can now turn into my super sub tyrie's halver and Drew holiday Bruce Brown Obey top and Miles Turner can I get him for buddy healed Daniel Tyson enough two firsts it's two first I mean I'm gonna have you got to imagine Portland has a two first like floor here somewhere right like to it may not be too great firsts but two firsts of some kind is that too much of a fat my gut is the pay I think the pace is will and are thinking about it my gut is it'll just be like it's too much too soon it's too much if it gets it too first it's too much if it's too much too soon and I love the idea though yeah I mean are you comfortable like even if it's only a rental I gotta be right I mean I gotta be I mean we can talk we can wink wink it and but then I'm am I gonna pay you two two years 90 million or three years a hundred and ten whatever it is yeah I think that team's not far away from being real interesting I to your point though rental and or big long term contract are they really ready for that like Aliburn's really good Miles Turner's in his prime are they really ready for that I just think it would be a lot of fun and all of a sudden they'd go from hey this team is kind of frisky maybe they could get into the play in and get the eight theater the seven seed out of that which I think is possible now to like oh this team is like this team is right behind Cleveland in the standings these teams that can it's like I think it's fun I agree and I think you know they well they have that pick from Denver um part of they have the least favorable like just a morass of first round picks it's like four different teams here um and then and then I protected you protect something out you know top 14 protect is that enough for for Portland um I that that's kind of like one of those low risks and if you're losing free agency losing free agency do I have I probably if if I don't want to throw into it it's got to be healed tight so I need a little more salary I need to know you're good because they're they're seven and a half they're under the cap they're below their last team stand then I recycled my my crazy fake trade fake challenge trade that um fans of both teams recoiled in a horror from the cat for druholiday straight up Minnesota that is well listen Tim Connelly is always love druhol listen dating to Denver etc here's a deal with with um Minnesota is that it's almost like you're gonna have days out of it again because you're you've got my connelly in the last year was contract you do it as I call it the wrecking ball of finances is coming right it's coming here it comes and you're going to be stuck without a point guard next year possibly and that's why they flipped the angel Russell who's in an expiring for connelly at two years left and does that so what do you do if you're Portland now do you take towns and flip him somewhere else I don't think the towns like people pitched towns for damn right as a damn trade I don't think there was ever any traction to that in either direction I don't think Portland had much interest in I mean towns is making 36 this year and then it jumps the super max hasn't even started yet to 49 54 57 60 something and then it goes off my screen to the right um I don't know that Portland was in love with that as a return for Damie and the Lillard franchise legend and they may still not be in love with it now like am I am I ready to pay the cat plus eight in front court like 90 million dollars a year for the next three years or whatever it is maybe not I just I mean look we all know a Minnesota situation the situation they put themselves in with the go bear trade they they have to cobble the four position out of Kyle Anderson and Jaden McDaniels probably have to start Jaden McDaniels at the four to smaller than they've ideally like to play it's interesting I know it's just a fun challenge trade so yeah I mean that's that's the beauty of it because as you were going through this I mean it's not like we're stuck with one or two teams I mean there's a list there's a list of teams here we haven't even mentioned Dallas who only has I think one tradable first round pick right now yeah is just you know has a lot of just kind of missed not mysteries but just like the wing is the wing pieces around Kyrie and Luke are you know there's gonna be a lot of competition for a playing time there and a lot of uncertainty as a result I just don't know that they have quite enough I honestly like I was just going through by the way to be clear I have no intel on the next I haven't heard from anyone on the next today about what their plans are I've tried and failed as I was just going through the teams I just kind of I just kind of stopped at the next like I kind of loved that idea do we have any parting thoughts here well no I mean like I mean I think it goes back to what's new I mean what's New York is like you could be waiting for a while for another guy to come available I mean you're gonna wait another year for Donovan Mitchell you're gonna wait two years for him beat maybe I mean that's kind of that's that's you know that's kind of the reality of it it's just it's just can and do it can they talk themselves into I've they've we've got enough leftover if the guy wants to come here down the line whoever that guy is to make it happen even though again like I don't think they have the blue chip player on hand right now the blue chip young guy they're really dependent on the picks to make it happen um maybe they would maybe they would we just saw a guy who Damien Lord wanted to go someplace and his team did not send them to that but by the way no one it's totally fine like this idea that they had to send it into Miami for the optics of everything whatever like that's not how it works and now Damien Lord's got to go make the best of it in Milwaukee let's end with Milwaukee is we've circled through this is there any parting thoughts on this trade that we didn't hit we hit Phoenix we hit Milwaukee hit Toronto hit Miami hit Portland the Portland are like I can see the Portland fans being like wait go bear one for how much and Durant went for how much and we got one straight up unprotected first round pick for Damien Lord but like we it's a warning it's a warning set out there apples and oranges across the board and 33 year old point guard the market was not quite poisoned but turned off by the Miami stuff the contract is what it is and they did get the Andreate and they're gonna flip drew into stuff like it's not it's not what you dreamed of it's not like a holy crap they got that but it's it's it's palatable I think no I mean listen I mean that's why we when we started it it's it's it's the deal's not done I mean the deal's not done as far as because it's gonna turn into something else I just think from Milwaukee's you know just you know putting a boat a bow tie on it and stuff like now my question is is that I know Yannis said it's a business decision like do you do you sign that extension before October 23rd because now you basically align yourself with Lillard and you have another year or or you can you can keep that same theme like I can get more money next year whether it be 4 for 234 versus 3 for 169 right now. Middleton at the end of the day those act Chris Middleton is gonna be the key to a lot of this you know where what Chris Middleton and I know last in the last couple of years he's dealt with injuries and stuff like that but what Chris Middleton does Milwaukee have this season he was he was good in the playoffs um scoring wise the sort of distributor stuff wasn't quite there the way that it had been the year they wanted and now they have a distributor who gets the line a lot by the way he's gets seven or eight free throw attempts a game he's driving passing game games has gotten better as the years have gone on fascinating deal across the board Bobby marks any other angles any cap angles we miss well I just have one more just one more is that you know we talked about Miami and the potential of like like like we're just we were spitballing like Kyle Larry so as part of this CBA if a player is waived and has a contract for more than that exceeds that the non-tax which is at 12 4 he's off limits for teams over the apron to sign right those by however that rule does not apply to the offseason so if you ever get in a situation let's say like there is a deal in place and Larry goes to Portland and he gets bought out he is free to sign with any team during the offseason there were any team during the any team at all as long as he was waived during the offseason when does the offseason when does the offseason end October 23rd oh we got plenty offseason yeah we haven't even started camp yet Bobby marks essential essential couldn't do it out you thank you for lending us an hour and 13 minutes of your time to talk about Damian Lillard going to the Milwaukee Bucks we will have certainly more on this on dot com I'm about to go right other people are writing there's gonna be TV there's gonna be all sorts of stuff and we still have some more tentacles dominoes branches to fall spread whatever terminology like Bobby marks everybody thank you sir thanks Jack