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And now the low welcome to the low post podcast minutes after a truly
shocking Miami heat blow out blow out road victory of the Boston
Celtics to end an epic seven game series full of 2004 red socks
nostalgia columns already written about whether this is the greatest
comeback in the history of NBA playoff basketball that now go into the
dustbin of history.
And this really makes the score to one in the latest playoff
trilogy between these two great franchises 2020 in the bubble.
The heat one and six in the conference finals a series that left
Boston feeling like they had really missed an opportunity.
2021 the next year they both get smacked rather poetically again
there together smacked in the first round by Milwaukee and Brooklyn
respectively 2022 last season a near incredible historic epic
unforgettable collapse by the Celtics.
Staved off by Jimmy Butler's three falling short at the end of game
seven and now here a three oh lead a three three come back and then
an infatic game seven win for the heat that ends the series ends the
trilogy sends the eighth seeded heat to the NBA finals gives Denver
home court advantage at the very last second they can cancel their flights
out of Denver's airport, which is in the middle of nowhere.
I'll see you there in a couple of days Denver and this obviously will
raise some very uncomfortable questions for the Celtics, particularly
the future of jail in brown who ends the season with an eight of 23
stinker eight turnovers to five assists a chronic problem for him and I
suspect the lead story and and again KP where recording this we don't
even know who the winner of the Larry Bertrofi is right now between
Jimmy Butler and Caleb Martin.
The lead story is obviously going to be Jason Tatum turning his
ankle 26 seconds into the game.
I think very reminiscent of James Hardins hamstring injury flaring up on
the first possession of the net's buck series two seasons ago and
yeah, that stinks and Tatum wasn't himself he couldn't move.
Jimmy Butler blew by him in the fourth quarter after the heat decided
we're going in for the kill.
We're going right at him.
We're going to make a move.
He blew a layup at the very first possession of the fourth quarter
with Boston trying furiously to get back in the game Caleb Martin
followed up with a three because of course Caleb Martin, Caleb Martin.
Let us pause now to praise Caleb Martin.
I have always had a saucepot for the Martin twins.
I did not in my wildest dreams.
See Caleb Martin nailing sidestep three's baseline fadeaways one on one
bruising drive shoulder checking drives up and under finishes at the basket.
And I thought his back to back scores at the end of the third quarter.
And then of course going into the fourth quarter, but he had the he had a sidestep
three off a Jimmy Butler drive at the end of the third quarter.
And then a fade away almost at the buzzer to restore Miami's lead a little bit.
What an incredible series for Caleb Martin.
If he wins the Larry Bertrofi, no objections to it.
I'd probably lean towards Jimmy Butler.
I honestly don't really care that Miami heat are going to the finals.
And we're just being informed that Jimmy Butler has won the Larry bird award.
Actually, that's okay because Mr. Kevin pelton.
I wrote after the Boston Celtics game for win that it was great that the Celtics
had rallied in the series and made it a series that it was awesome that the
2023 shot quality trophy will go to the Boston Celtics.
They can put that maybe in a closet somewhere because it's worth nothing.
That none of that really mattered all that much because when you go down
3.0, you're margin for anything, any event, any outlier event.
It is unfavorable to you is gone.
And what I wrote in the piece was Max Trues hit seven threes, you're done.
Tatum goes four of 20 in one game, you're done.
And none of those things that happened through the previous three games at Boston
at one and unfortunately for everyone, the thing that happened was that Jason
Tatum turned his ankle, nobody on Boston other than Derek White who did his very
best in the second, I have to get the back in the game, could replace that
production, could replace the hull of an offense that just kind of fell apart.
And you know what, that's just life in the NBA.
It stinks.
It's a stinky way to end the series.
But he didn't win this game by two points.
They won it absolutely going away.
And
Boyle boy, the Miami Heat Mr. pelton are going to the NBA finals.
What are your initial thoughts on the game?
Yes, you started by calling this a shocking result.
And I think the fact that the heat won this game wasn't really terribly surprising to me.
Even is heart breaking and one of a kind is the end to game six was like, I think like
everyone else, I expected Miami to rally and put up a good effort tonight.
But if the heat won this game, I assumed it was going to be them outplaying Boston
in the clutch, which is how they've gotten, you know, two or three wins previously in
the series.
Only the game three one is the exception.
And instead, you know, you sort of talked around this, my am the combination of the
Tatum injury, Miami shooting 50% from three is my buddy Mark Hodner noted on Twitter.
The third time in this series, they hit at least half of their threes.
They did that three times in the entire 82 game regular season 14 of 28 from three.
You said they hit 5% of their threes three times in 82 games and three times in this series.
Yep.
Yeah, that's not going to make anyone in the greater New England area feel any better,
especially since the Celtic shot nine of 42 from three.
And again, you don't get a shot quality trophy.
You got to make the shots, the heat made their shots.
And yeah, please continue your initial thoughts on the game.
Yeah, this one, I feel like it certainly was an outlier shooting performance, but Boston's
offense, other than the stretches where Derek White improbably took over.
And we had the Derek White Caleb Martin duel in the Eastern Conference Finals that all
of us predicted aside from that, it was often stuck in the mud.
It looked like they were playing in the clutch the entire game this time.
Basically, you know, there wasn't the kind of ball movement that we saw at the sort of game
five that really broke down the Miami defense and created a series of good looks.
They had makeable shots.
They should have shot much better.
They perhaps could have won this game if they had shot better.
But I also think that there are certainly structural things in the Boston offense,
including Joe and Brad's turnovers that, you know, they're going to have to address
to improve their chances of overcoming poor shooting nights.
Well, at some point, inconsistency, being inconsistent, being a team that people
talk about is like, well, why is it always so difficult?
Why do they have to make it so tough on themselves?
Why is it always so difficult?
Why do they have these weird stretches in the last five minutes of games where either
their defense falls off or their offense just seems to lose the plot at some and
they and people talk about it.
And I've done a two as if as if this habit as if this as if this sort of personality
quirk is a thing that is is is a is a is a almost random malfunction that is holding
the team back from what it truly is and should be.
And at some point, that discussion shifts to no, it's just who you are.
You're just an inconsistent team.
This is just what you are.
It's who you are.
It's baked into your identity.
And I think the biggest reason when people ask me, why are the Celtics so maddening?
They have so much talent.
Why and again, Malcolm Brogdon was injured too.
We should probably mention that.
And Tyler here was injured.
We could do the injury ledger, just put it out there.
Both teams are dealing with injuries.
It's a thing at my personal theory on that question.
And sometimes this what's been different about this season and this playoff run,
not even this season, they were second in defense this season.
But at this playoff run since the first two games of the Atlanta series,
is there a defense has been a little more up and down than it has been in the past?
Even in game six, they got away with a million horrible mistakes,
just walking away from Miami shooters, miscommunications.
And that's just that's that's been a kind of strange.
But it's on offense.
I just think it comes down to their top two guys are a pretty good playmaker
and a negative assist to turnover or even assist to turn over guy playmaker.
And probably pretty good.
I mean, yeah, Tatum had 11 assists in game was a game five yet 11 assists.
He has games where he he does that and he makes the right simple pass
and they ignite these swing, swing, swing sequences.
He's a five, five and a half, four and a half, six and a half, whatever it is,
assist guy and Jalen Brown, his career assist to turn over ratio is even in the right
in the playoffs, it's negative.
And if you're asking me why is this team so maddening, that's the place I'm going to start.
Maybe maybe part of it is the coaching.
We can talk about that.
You know, Joe Mizzulo went from being a scapegoat to like, oh, maybe he's figured
something out that Joe Mizzulo, I loved how when Jalen Brown got 4,000 game six
and the Celtics tried to get him out of pick and rolls, like pre switch him out of pick
and rolls.
People are like, boy, that Joe Mizzulo really made a great adjustment, learned a new tactic.
That's every game that's every game for every team in the NBA.
Like I just it's it was crazy to see that framed is like, he's growing as a coach.
Anyway, that's the reason I think more than anything that they have these stretches.
And it goes without saying that that is probably going to be at the forefront of their
decision now with Jalen Brown, who's eligible for a super max.
And I've already said when they were down three, oh, and they let go of the rope and kudos
to Boston, I can't believe they recovered from that shell hacking in Miami when they
just stop playing.
I just don't think it's a no brainer that they're just offering him the super max.
And if you don't offer him the super max, that's not going to go over well.
I just don't think there's going to be room for a lot of negotiation with Jalen Brown.
And it doesn't really take a genius to figure out the next steps from there.
But zoom out for me and just sort of what's your take away from this?
If you're Brad Sieve, engineer, running this team and you've seen them make the
finals last year, conference finals this year, deep playoff runs year after year,
after you're starting with the Ky Reed teams in 2018, what's your take away from all this?
So I think first off, sometimes people ask,
Ken Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum win a championship together.
And the answer is undoubtedly yes.
Like if you can lead the NBA finals to the one, have game four at home, you know,
be that close to, you know, in control of the finals at that point,
you're capable of winning the finals.
They didn't do it, but that doesn't mean they're not capable of it.
Just is the fact that the Celtics didn't come back,
doesn't prove that no team can come back from a three nothing deficit.
Like the fact that this guy is close as it did is evidence that eventually someone
is going to do it, even though it's going to be very difficult for the reasons that you
said. So would you, when Brown specifically, I think my, the biggest question I would ask
is, you know, does he have more trade value on that super max extension under contract
for at least five years than he does going into the final year of his contract?
And I, you know, I think you and Bobby Marx talked about that after the, after game three
and kind of, you know, you felt like he would have a lot of trade value.
Even is a potential run till just because there would be a lot of teams would be confident
in their ability to resign him.
But, you know, I think that market, that pool gets a lot bigger if he's under contract
for five or six years.
And then it's teams that aren't free agent destinations or aren't confident that are,
they, they can resign him, become candidates as well.
That's an, that's, that's a very important point.
Bobby made it to, it's, it's probably correct.
I also think that if negotiations fail in July and he is on an expiring contract,
and the Celtics decide to investigate the trade market for him.
And I'm not saying any of these things are going to happen.
I'm using the word if for each one of them.
I think as that trade market develops, obviously, any team trading for him will be
trading for him with a wink, wink understanding that yes, he's going to resign there
a long term.
Obviously, nothing's ironclad, nothing signed in blood.
Either way, I think you would have an enormous amount of trade value, despite the fact
that again, the playmaking just hasn't come along.
It just hasn't, it just hasn't come along.
The other, I want to talk more about the game, because the game just ended.
It's fresh in my mind.
I mentioned the kale of Martin stuff at the end of the third quarter, which I thought were just
a big, big five points.
Maybe the other defining stretch of the game to me was the beginning of the second quarter,
when Jimmy Butler hit the bench for what ended up being about five and a half minutes.
It was 22 15 Miami at the end of the first quarter.
And by the time Jimmy Butler came back in the game at the 746 mark.
So it was four and a half minutes, not five and a half minutes apologies.
It was 36 21 Miami, so they had added eight points to what had been a seven point lead.
And you don't often remember stretches like that in games, because they're early second quarter,
people are not paying his close attention.
That was as important as any stretch of the game in Boston losing.
And if you just look at the baskets that they scored, some of them
Miami in that in that series in that sequence.
Duncan Roberts and hits a three when Marcus markets smashed by a great re-screen from BAM.
Hey, what high Smith picks Tatum clean and goes coast to coast for a dunk.
Gabe Vincent hits a contested three.
Grant Williams got hung up, but I thought it was pretty good defense.
Marcus Smart tries a crazy lob pass to jail and Brown against the zone that hits two people's
hands and then hits the backboard.
And it's a fast break for Miami and Caleb Martin hits a three in the corner in the right corner.
Kyle Lowry runs a pick and roll with BAM.
Marcus Smart goes under the screen.
He spins under a collar.
I was like, cool, I'm just going to shoot a three.
Makes a three.
I mean, some of that is bad defense.
Some of that is you give this heat team an inch.
And they are taking every goddamn bit of that inch.
You give them an opening and they're making you pay.
And at some point, maybe that magic will run out.
It kind of did for a couple of games a bad Miami shot making is Boston got back in the series.
But it came back as soon as they as soon as they needed it.
And I thought they only combined for 17 points.
But I thought what Lowry and Vincent gave Miami tonight was was maybe not big,
but what they needed and just enough.
And even like that gave Vincent BAM pick and roll.
It was one of those things that the Celtics warrant is comfortable switching it.
And the Celtics going to more switches as the series went on.
Had kind of got the heat stuck in the mud a bit.
And Gabe Vincent, he's never going to like the world on fire.
He's never going to dunk.
He's never got a big high flyer.
It doesn't have like the sexiest hesitation dribble crossover move.
He's ability to go north south and make tough high off the glass layups.
Boston's hesitancy to switch on that.
He scored some buckets out of it.
BAM not tonight.
BAM was not good offensively against tonight.
His gotten some dunks on it in the series.
And in this game, the help got Butler an open three.
And then when they helped off him on that pick and roll, he attacked the alley.
He attacked the diagonal gap.
Joe Mizzulo wanted a traveling call on that play.
He was probably right.
But just Gabe Vincent's ability to give them a ball handling option.
And the Lowry stuff I mentioned before, I thought we're big for them.
And you just look at the plus minus.
Kyle Lowry plus 26 in 23 minutes.
Duncan Roberts in plus 17 in 19 minutes.
That's that second quarter stretch when Butler sat in like,
you can play those minutes even if you're Boston.
You can't lose them by eight.
You just can't.
Yeah, especially after they had struggled the way that they had with Tatum
on the bench at the end of the first quarter.
And look at the risk of sounding like Al Pacino.
Like you can't have any given Sunday.
Though you can't have those inches in a game seven.
You can't give Miami anything.
Like this is the point in the series where you are supposed to be
dialed in on every single thing that the opponents are doing.
And you know, with the low scoring in the first quarter,
we sort of saw that.
But in the second quarter, the Celtics focus waned a little bit.
Is it has a tendency to do.
And that's too costly to happen at this stretch of a series.
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What a series.
What do you think of Jimmy Butler winning the Larry Bird trophy in Boston?
Over Caleb Martin.
Well, it's, uh, it's, uh, justice for Tim Bontep's giving him the one vote is the losing
player.
In last year's conference finals, having scored like 82-4,
or whatever he did.
I forgot about that.
I, you know, to your point about him versus Caleb Martin.
In the third quarter, I was kind of prepared to tweet something about, you know,
if Caleb Martin gets this trophy, it will be, I think, remembered retroactively,
a little like Andre Egwitala winning it over Steph Curry in 2014, where
part of the reason that you're able to do what you do offensively as a role player
is because the star is the central focus of everything your team is doing
and the opponent's scouting report.
But then Caleb Martin played so well after that in the late third quarter and the,
the early fourth quarter and was creating a lot of his own offense,
that I would have been totally fine with him winning the award.
And one of the interesting what ifs of this Miami season.
Uh, last year Martin was, I can't remember if he was restricted or not, but, you know,
they, they had the ability to resign him using their exceptions,
whether they needed to, because they had non-Bird rights on him.
And if somebody had offered him like $1 more than the taxpayer mid-level exception,
in a hard-capped Miami, if they had, you know, matched that,
it would have become a really difficult decision, I think, potentially for Miami,
because of their aspirations of making some big and seasoned deal that never materialized.
Instead, they were able to get him for the taxpayer mid-level,
and that is looking like one of the best contracts in the NBA.
And he has one more year left on his deal next year.
He's locked into the heat so all the catching stuff that was going on during the game
from Reggie Miller on the broadcast has to wait a year when he has now
a player option for 24-25.
He's just, he's just a really good player.
He played out of his goddamn mind, and it was great to watch,
unless you're a Celtic fan, in which case, it was not so great to watch.
Maybe not if you're a Hornets fan, either?
Yeah, that's a good one.
Broke up the Martin Twins.
Let, let, let one of the Martin Twins go, and the other one didn't play, didn't play so much.
What, what else do you take from this?
I mean, you're, again, you, you mentioned just,
oh, okay, why I'm okay with Butler?
I mean, I'm okay, like who cares who wins the, I mean, it's cool that he won.
It's not this, like, I didn't even remember the Tim Bontemps thing last year.
I guess I probably would have voted for Butler too,
just because the series was really, I don't know when it was quote-unquote one,
but it was one as much in those first two games in Boston as it was at any other moment in this series.
For them to go and take both of those games in Boston and just put the Celtics on the back foot,
and Butler was the driving force in those wins.
And you just think of this, the wild narrative for the Celtics.
You know, game three, I talked about it, they just, they just didn't play.
They stopped playing, and you rarely see a team stop playing at this level of stakes,
and, and fight back like this.
Game four, they go down 61-52, they go on an 18-0 run, they come back,
and win that game, and I mean, I think at some point, they played top golf.
At some point, they played, they played a top golf,
which was, I guess, a fun enough experience to get the series to six,
but not quite fun enough for them to win in seven,
but top golf is cool, I like top golf.
Game five, relatively comfortable win at home.
Game six, holy smokes, game six.
I haven't got a chance to talk too much about game six as it happened over the weekend.
As I was watching game six,
and BAM was missing everything, and Jimmy was missing everything.
And the heat role players, because mostly of their movement,
and even more than that, Boston just messing up every basic coverage you can mess up.
Hitting enough threes to keep Miami in touch with the Celtics.
I even wrote in my notes, this feels like such a classic,
how the hell the disteam survived the first half,
and then the stars show up just enough to get them over the finish line,
and it ends up being the most immoralizing laws possible for the Celtics.
And it was, and then Derek White,
like a bolt of lightning, Jalen Brown said,
came out and saved the day, and he's justifiably a hero.
It's an all-time great postseason play.
I know people say things like, well, it's not as important because they lost game seven,
and that's there's some truth in that.
It still is an all-time great postseason play.
What did you think of that play that?
I mean, there was some scrutiny, I guess, about Struce's defense on the in-bounds pass.
Derek White was the in-bounder.
He's leaving to help on Tatum and Brown,
and then BAM has to box out two guys at the same time,
because Tatum and Brown both crashed the glass, and here comes Derek White.
I just chalked that one up to, like,
that thing missed in the only way it could miss for Derek White to go and get it,
and I don't really see any fault with what Spode did there.
I think it was more a great play by Derek White than it was a mistake by Miami,
because I think usually in that situation,
you just kind of drift to the corner and stay there,
even though it's, he said afterwards,
like, there was no good reason for him not to crash the glass.
Like, there was no negative to that.
But I think just, like, the instinct for players in that situation
is my role here is to be open in the corner.
That's what I'm going to do,
and then, kind of, just watch the shot when it goes up.
So, again, I think it was him doing something above and beyond the call,
rather than something that Miami didn't do.
Are there any other things you take from this game,
if you are in the Celtic Spring Trust?
Did that matter to you going forward in deciding not so much whether this team
can win a championship, because, as you said,
if you get that close, you can win the championship.
But whether I can,
I, as Brad Stevens and Witt Grousspect
can have enough flexibility around Brown and Tatum,
making as much as they're going to make,
and they've earned every penny of it, obviously.
And the new CBA coming in,
which could already make for a tough decision for them
with guys like Horford and Brogdon and guys like that,
can I build the right team around those two guys with them taking up
that bigger percentage of the salary cap?
Well, you mentioned decisions on Horford and Brogdon down the line.
I mean, the more interesting decision is coming up this summer,
and that's Grant Williams as a restricted free agent.
And there have been times this playoff run where he's been out of the rotation,
and it's looked like any sort of credible offer could pry him away from the Celtics.
But then, over the midst of the comeback,
he became indented, spensible part of this,
especially as they kind of needed him with Brogdon,
unable to give them almost anything.
And frankly, in hindsight, it probably was a mistake for them to play Brogdon
at all in this one, given his inability to shoot.
Yeah, I mean, Grant Williams.
I never understood it.
I've harped on it enough.
I just didn't get why he wasn't playing.
I just didn't get it.
And he was minus 19 tonight,
so he did not cover himself with glory in this in this last game.
But he's been fine for them since he started playing again.
And I think ultimately,
you know,
whatever you want to lay at the feet of Joe Missoula,
34-year-old coach thrust from the second row into this job amid a scandal, basically.
I think he's kind of been overblamed as most coaches are,
and then overcredited over the last three games for things that are just like,
what are we really trumpeting?
This is like the greatest thing since sliced bread.
I didn't like their late-game stuff against Philly in games one in four,
particularly in game four.
I thought it was just a disastrous bit of mismanagement across the board from them.
That was the day ran out of time game.
And James Harden hit an open corner three game and all that.
You know, how much of the offensive up and down stuff can I pin on him?
Maybe everyone harps on the time out school.
To me, it's always been the big man rotation.
That's where I think there was a sense of internal confusion.
And in some corners, frustration over,
I don't understand why the Robert Williams Alhorfer,
this is, I'm parroting points.
Why the Alhorfer Robert Williams thing kind of went away.
I have said many times,
I thought they would just come out guns blazing with it.
Game one of the Philly series and it took until way too late for them to go
whole hog at it.
And the grand Williams thing.
Again, all you have to do is read Jason Tatum's public statements
about how much he wants to play with Robert Williams and how much he wants
Robert Williams to start and how much he enjoys playing next to him.
I think that was not their undoing,
but in even tonight,
Robert Williams had an impactful, I thought, 14 minutes.
14, you know, I just didn't think that I didn't get what I understand.
I had to understand the spacing and the five out offense and all that.
I just haven't really understood the minutes all season.
Yeah, I would have guessed he played a lot more than 14 before I looked at the box score,
which probably is a testament to his impact.
I mean, it's kind of interesting that the way things fell because
this was not a good Robert Williams series in terms of playing him in
horror together didn't seem to work very much against Miami's small ball line-ups
in the shooting that they put out.
Which was clear.
And I said it on this podcast before game one and especially after game one.
That was clear and they made the right call and going back to their small lineup.
It was it was a solid plus for the series.
But if they had won this game and had faced the nuggets,
that would have seemed like a really ideal Robert Williams match up to use him
the same way the Lakers just used Anthony Davis against the nuggets in the conference finals.
Not that that would have been a panacea.
But I think it would have been their best strategy.
So you'd almost feel very differently about Robert Williams' place in the Celtics future
had the Celtics gone to the finals then based on them losing this series.
Well, the other thing I said before the game,
I just don't get up this morning.
I said, you know, you look at the Miami Heat's Big Man rotation.
It's basically just gone to smithereens other than BAM.
Kevin Love got benched in game five,
second half of game five, and then entirely in game six.
Cody Zeller, do we even see we didn't even see Cody Zeller today.
We saw him for two minutes in game six.
Highsmith had a nice game five disappeared in game six and I said,
look, I just feel like one of these guys is going to have to,
I think I said make two plays.
Like there's going to be one of these guys to make two plays to just survive this game.
And ultimately they didn't really even need that.
They won by so much with BAM playing 43 minutes and Jimmy playing 43 minutes and Martin playing
45 and credit to Spowe for, I thought he was maybe one game late,
starting Caleb Martin, but not much more than that and maximizing the minutes.
Those three guys play together was their three best players,
but they did get a couple plays from Hayward Highsmith tonight.
That pick six steel in the second quarter, they got, they got something.
And now, you know, this weird thing happens in the playoffs where guys fall out of the rotation.
And then a new series starts.
It's game one, a little bit more of a margin for error.
Like, all right, let's get, let's get some of these guys back in the rotation.
I suspect we will see some guys back in the rotation.
Before we talk about it in very quick initial thoughts on nuggets heat,
I've asked you for takeaways about the Celtics in their future.
And obviously this is massively disappointing in the way they just fell apart in games one and two
at home is going to haunt them for a long time.
They just weren't good enough.
They weren't good enough.
They haven't been like really that good consistently since the first two games of the hog series.
But what do you, what, what about the heat side?
Like, obviously they have a series to play.
So we're not, we're not putting a bow on their season by any means.
But like, what have you learned about the heat?
Because you could look, if they had lost today, if they lost today,
you know that there was going to be some taking stock of, let's look at this playoff run.
Okay, they barely wheeze in against the bulls in the second game of the play in tournament.
They draw the bucks.
And I think drawing the bucks from talking to heat people throughout the playoff run.
I think drawing the bucks perk them up a little bit.
That's been a rivalry.
They faced each other and they'll play off three times.
Now they like that match up.
They're not scared of it.
I think they, okay, all right.
We like, we like the alternative is the Celtics though.
You just played the conference finals last year and certainly not scared of either.
I, that's fair.
I just think they like, I think they like that match up.
I think they feel like they're tougher than the bucks.
Then Yalus gets hurt and the whole series kind of turns on its head a little bit.
And I realized the bucks didn't play very well when Yalus was on the floor.
Then they get the nicks who are a fine team.
But that's a, that's a, let's call it a match up of equals if you want.
Like that's a, that's a series on paper that he can win.
Then they get Boston.
And if they had lost this game, it would have been all,
well, the three all lead was kind of a fluke, just hot shooting.
The Celtics were clearly a superior team.
The talent was going to win out in the end and it won out just in time.
And by by heat, they have big decisions to make.
But they win.
They won the game.
And they're in the NBA finals.
So, Mr. Pelton, what is your stock taking of the Miami Heat and Hashtag Heat Culture?
Yeah, so the question on Caleb Martin's free agency.
What does the next contract look like is still a way as a way.
But you've got Max Tererson gave Vincent both Eden free agency certain to get massive raises.
If they do come back and the most interesting stock to take about the heat remains,
you mentioned him earlier, Tyler Hero, who they've made basically this entire run without.
And obviously at times they have missed his shot creation.
And, you know, just the jolt that he can give them offensively.
And certainly over in 82 game season, season you need that.
But in a playoff series, he's a guy that teams can hunt a little bit.
And, you know, taking him off the court has made it easier for Eric Spolster to play lineups
where you, you know, Max Truce is the weakest defender.
And if Max Truce is your weakest defender,
you're probably doing pretty well defensively.
And the other element of that is we have seen that at least if the shooters are making
threes at the clip that they have in this in the Milwaukee series,
Jimmy Butler plus Bami out of bio plus shooters is more than good enough offensively to win.
Chris Haines is reporting just right on time.
Right on time and on target Kevin Pelton that Tyler Hero is ramping up.
Everyone's ramping up all the time ramping.
That means they're going up a ramp.
Like am I am I ramping on to the highway?
When I drive my car?
Yeah, you ramping up your speed at the very least.
It depends whether the ramp is...
What if there's not a ramp direction of the ramp?
Okay, this is ridiculous.
He's expected to make his return at some point during the NBA finals with game three
being the likely target.
And I've been hard on Tyler Hero and not hard on him, but I just said I don't think they've
missed him and I think I've even said they might be better off at times without Tyler Hero.
That begins to run out if Jimmy Butler can't be like a 38% usage, 40% usage,
just every single possession monster in these playoff games.
And he has not been able to be that since really game...
I mean, they didn't need it in game three, but since game two of this series,
that equation starts to flip a little bit because you just feel the void of,
oh my god, we could use another shot creator here and gave Vincent papers over it
and then Caleb Martin papers over it and whenever that magic ends, if it ends,
you'll feel that void.
And this is a step up in talent.
This is a...
I don't actually don't know how much of a step up in competition is,
but this is a Denver team that's like fully loaded and waiting
and has zero questions about itself and zero consistency issues, really.
Maybe they'll need Tyler Hero.
Maybe that will end up becoming a thing.
Can I give you a stat about Tyler Hero's potential return?
Sure.
If he plays, it will be the longest layoff in at least the last 25 years in the playoffs
for someone to come back.
The largest in that span had when Marcus Cousins got hurt in game two of the Warriors first round
series had a quadriceps strain return for game one of the NBA finals.
So here it will be injured in the first game of the playoffs to come back in the finals
would be the longest in at least since 1997.
You know who I think, just just just my brain, just just what happened in my brain just now.
When I think of guys returning for the NBA finals in a big role and the risk and reward of that,
the first name that comes to my head is Jameer Nelson in the 2009 finals of Magic Lakers.
Because I believe Ray for Austin was the fill in starter, I believe, right?
For that magic team, if I'm remembering it correctly.
And there was this whole like, well, how many minutes should Jameer play?
Should he go right back into his starting lineup?
And it was a whole big thing.
Anyway, but what I'm asking you, Kevin is like, do you buy the heat?
Have you have you have you bought into the heat now?
Like this is this 100% true blue real thing.
Like this is this is a really good NBA finals team.
Like I just, it's completely inexplicable.
Like if you just look at if you just look at like what they were in the regular season,
there was no crescendo toward the end.
They were trying so hard to catch Brooklyn for the sixth seeded.
They could not do it.
And the play in was what it was.
There was just like not a lot of evidence that there was a great team hiding in plain sight.
And now here they are in the NBA finals.
It's hard to know what to make of it.
But I know their tough is all hell.
And they're not going to give you anything.
And here they are.
Yeah, I'm probably a little more skeptical just because like,
look, everyone's talked about their own three point shooting going from 27th in the regular
season to after tonight.
They'll have the best three point percentage in the playoffs going into the finals.
They surpass the nuggets.
Part of that is our buddy Seth part now is noted is guys just returning to form because this was
an outstanding shooting team in 2021 and 22.
And you know, it wasn't entirely because of BJ Tucker as it turns out.
The other element that hasn't gotten as much attention though is just the opponent shot making
for Miami from three has been pretty awful throughout this playoffs.
And it culminates in two of the worst three point shooting games for Boston all season long
in games six and seven, one of which Boston wins.
Yes.
So because of that, I'm probably a little more skeptical.
But if you're going to make the the positive case for Miami again,
this is last year's team minus PJ Tucker basically.
And that team was one shot away from the NBA finals.
We, you know, if Jimmy Butler makes that three, maybe we're thinking of this team in a different
light. And they made the finals in 2020 and we were all shocked by it based on the regular season.
So at some point, maybe we got to believe the playoff heat unless they're coming off of a bubble run.
Yeah, I think the evidence is piling up that this is just a better playoff team, the regular
season team. Obviously, Jimmy Butler is a more prolific playoff score.
The regular season, Jimmy Butler, BAM for all his his up and down play on offense.
At least as a score, his defense just never willed ever, his passing never willed
ever. And they just have a toughness about them that is real.
And you just never worry about them like wavering and suffering self doubt and quaking
in the moment, even when they suffer a loss like they did the other night.
It was because of a great player making a great play.
And they nearly gutted out a game that really they frankly just should not have had any place
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Let's turn to the finals briefly. I have I am not on Twitter as we are doing this. I don't know
what the early Vegas odds are on this finals. I would assume that the Denver Nuggets now with
home court advantage will be sizable favorites over the Miami Heat. I have not watched one second
a film between these two teams yet. I will do that tomorrow. I was waiting for this series to end.
I suspect I will pick the nuggets. What stands out to you about this match up at first glance?
So Adam Mars mentioned last week when he was on the podcast about their Denver's dominance of
this match up in recent years, 10 into in the last 12 meetings. It's interesting that
Nicole Yokic's numbers have not actually been that outstanding against Miami. He's basically
averaged the same thing against the heat in that span that he's averaged against everyone else.
The other thing that stands out about this series besides that to me is
Miami's zone was such a weapon for them in the conference finals against Boston, which
had a good moment against it in game five, but never seemed to entirely figure it out.
The nuggets over the course of the regular season playoffs have averaged 1.21 points
per possession against zone. The second highest in the NBA behind the Cleveland Cavaliers according
to second spectrum tracking and the heat played 11 possessions of zone according to second
spectrum and the two matchups against Denver in the regular season and the nuggets scored 19 points
on those 11 possessions. So if you take that tool out of Eric's Fulster's toolbox,
what does it do to what Miami does defensively, especially if they want to play Duncan Robinson?
Yeah, a zone against Yokic with three shooters and Aaron Gordon, one of the best cutters,
finishers in the NBA. That feels like it's going to be tough. That feels like it's going to be
tough sledding for the defense. One thing I'll say about hero in this series is I think one of
the deficits that Miami is at to some degree in this series is the ability to really hurt Yokic
in the pick and roll. And frankly, no team has really done it so far in the playoffs. The
sons had some monster shooting games that I thought his defense was fine for what it is in that
series. But they don't really like even Butler, you know, we saw the Celtics as a series when
on start to mix in going under on screens a little bit. I mean, he's largely sort of taken that
defense out of the playbook with his jump shooting. But I don't think they're going to be too worried
about Butler walking into like 20 footers semi contested. If you can just get a hand up,
you know, Vincent's not like a huge off the dribble three point guy. Max Truce has really developed
that part of his game. He's thinking some tough threes tough like Max Cruz made some tough off the
dribble threes Cooper Moorehead at who works for heat.com has had some stats about like Max Truce never
used to make any threes when he dribbled and now he makes threes when he did. I think he had his
most dribbles into a three at some point in this series. Tyler Hero can do that. That's a skill
that Tyler Hero has that maybe if they can protect him on defense. And we've seen Jamal Murray be
a little more ruthless hunting perimeter defender. He feels comfortable against. He went at the
Angela Russell over and over and over again. So it's not going to be it's not going to be easy. It's
not as just as easy as well. He can guard KCP or he can guard Bruce Brown or he can guard Michael
Porter. It's just not that easy against Denver or really any other team. But that's that's something he has.
Um, I you just look at the at the matchups. Yokech is a handful for you. You can't stop Yokech.
And bam is unbelievable. But he's undersized and it will just be really interesting to see
how they deal with Yokech in the post and how aggressive he is trying to trying to just sort of
take that matchup and seize it right away. Go ahead. You want to say something I can tell.
I mean do you consider starting Kevin Love again? Like this is kind of the second consecutive
series. And this would be true. Actually, if the Celtics had won. Also, where a team went small at
the end of the previous series because the Lakers took Jared Vanderbilt out of the starting line
up at the end of that series against the Warriors. And then all of a sudden you go up against Denver
and it's like, oh man, these guys are enormous because you have Michael Porter Jr. at small forward
at like 610 Aaron Gordon at power forward. Can you afford to play them with just one big? And also
if you put love on Yokech, which you know, I don't think is the worst matchup then it allows
Bam to be that help defender. Is that something you consider? It's some it surely they will consider
all of it. And we'll see that's the thing about these series. Like you're going to see all of this stuff.
I just don't I mean sure start Kevin Love and maybe maybe it works out. Obviously he can guard
Aaron Gordon. Like that's a assignment he can handle. But as we've seen when the Lakers tried to
ignore Aaron Gordon out of the series, a Kevin Love roaming off Aaron Gordon does nothing to help
your defense. No one is no one is stopping their drive because Kevin Love is the last line of defense.
And b, the nuggets will put Aaron Gordon in ball screen actions. Use them as an off ball screener,
a back screener and get Kevin Love moving around even if he's guarding nominally the worst shooter
or whatever of Denver's starting five and love on and love on Yokech is.
Oh, that's a tough one. That's a tough. He's a wily old vet. The hair's gray. He knows all the tricks.
That's a tough one. And bam, bam be a good rover. But rim protection is not what makes bam,
bam. And if you're going to have a rover, he needs to be a really threatening shop blocker. And
that's not quite what bam is. And the other thing is like you would look at who the Celtics could
throw a Jamal Murray defensively and look at the who the heat can throw at Jamal Murray defensively.
It's just a world of difference in the size he's going to see in this series. And you start to
think of like well, what matchup advantages does Miami have? There is one of the advantages they
have is their nonstop movement and creativity and all that. And Denver, I think, can match that
on offense and knows how to defend that kind of stuff. And Aaron Gordon, I would assume will
guard Jimmy Butler as the primary defender. That's as good of a matchup as you could have for
a physical brute like Butler. And Aaron Gordon, foul trouble will be a thing like all the pump
fakes and all the tricks that you about there has. And yeah, Jimmy Butler can try and hunt KCP
and KCP is pretty good. Bruce Brown figures to play a big role. Hunt Jamal Murray the way we've
seen LeBron Hunt Jamal Murray in the previous round. We'll see some of that. It's just, you know,
so it's a hard way to live over and over again as Jimmy Butler just grinding and grinding and
grinding. It's just a hard way to score enough points. Yeah, I mean, I think that may be their best
strategy, though, also in terms of just like slow the game down, get shots on goal, keep Denver out
of transition as much as possible, kind of like the 2015 Cavaliers against the Warriors playbook
a little bit when LeBron just was, you know, controlling every possession for like 20 seconds on
offense. I do not think it's, I mean, no one in Denver is going to spill their guts to me about
this. I would bet good money that they were hoping Miami would win this series. If only for
home court advantage, if only for game seven at home, they're undefeated at home in the playoffs.
Um, I think this is a better matchup for them, but look, the heater in the finals, man, like the,
we're, oh, that's the heater. The, the, the, the, the, the nuggets are, I'm not saying they are,
but just this whole talking point is going to say, well, the nuggets are probably relieved
that the heater in the finals and not the Celtics. The heat just beat the Celtics. Like, how,
how relieved can you actually beat? They just, so the team that they just beat, you're so
relieved. I don't have to play that team. I have to play the team that beat that team. Don't be
relieved. It's not relief playing against the Miami heat. It's not a great sense of relief.
Having those dudes run into you and hit you and make shots over you and just hit you with,
you know, a BAM screen. They should make, they should make media members try to get around a BAM
screen. That should be part of the media training. All right. We're all going to go to Vegas.
BAM's going to wake up at nine in the morning and just deck all of us with picks. That should be,
I would, I would do it. It would, I mean, I think that should be part of the deal. We,
we'd have to sign a waiver, right? Because you, you might get hurt that way. No, you don't get,
you don't, the heat opponents don't get to sign a waiver. Nobody gets to sign waivers in these games.
I think there, I think there is a liability waiver built somewhere in the NBA contract.
I'll do it. I'm up, I'm game for it. You want to talk about the rest of what I shouldn't hear.
No, like the rest, like Denver has been off for a week now. Oh, the rest. Yeah. I forgot. They beat
the Lakers, I think. Like, I, yeah, several years ago. Okay, time to go back to Serbia if you wanted to.
This is something I wrote about in our first look at the finals, which I assume is on the SPN.com now,
but I have not, not checked for it yet. If you look at teams that have had five more days rest going
into the finals than they're at point at least, they are 10 and 6 in game one, which doesn't sound
very good, but then if you take the, but that's partially because a lot of those teams did not have
home court in the series. The teams that did have home court and the other team had to travel in
addition to having the rest disadvantage. They are eight and one in game one and eight and one in
the series all time. So that's been a consistent theme of Miami's playoff run. They have one game
one on the road of every single series. This is going to be by far the most challenging one to get
at altitude with this rest disadvantage. Great stuff. That's a great stat. Rest versus
rust is going to be a major talking boy on every show tomorrow. What would you have? Rest versus
rust? And this is a quick turnaround for Miami. It's, they're going to get out of Boston at,
you know, 1231 AM today. And I, are they stopping home? I can't remember. The dendiv, their flight
plans became a story at some point today, but game one is Thursday in Denver. And they're going to
have to travel one of the, it's two days off between games, but that's, that's a quickish turnaround.
That's just by definition they went seven games. It's this quick turnaround. This could possibly
exist for the NBA final. It's going to be a good series. It's going to be a good series. I can't
wait. I'm ready to watch Denver play again. I haven't watched them play in a long time. We have
a minimum of four and a maximum of seven NBA games left in the season. We might as well just
enjoy it and luxuriate in them. Let's talk about two quick offseason things quickly before I,
which I let you go. The Philadelphia 76ers entering a pivotal offseason with James Hardin's
free agency and some other offseason questions and coming off a really heartbreaker at home in
game six against Boston, followed by a blowout loss in game seven against Boston running into
the conference semi finals. Well, yet again, in the joyln beat era, fired dock rivers and today
hired Nick Nurse who was in contention at one point for the Bucks job and according to Wojge,
also for the Suns job up until the last minute here. What are your initial thoughts on the
Nick Nurse to Philadelphia higher? So what I think is going to be interesting is this is a complete
180 defensive stylistically for Nick Nurse who has been a part of the Raptor is building all these
interchangeable six eight dudes and all of a sudden you got a Philadelphia and you've got a seven
foot defensive anchor who is not as effective guarding on the perimeter or switching as he is
sticky around the paint. You've also got, you know, no matter what happens with Hardin
Tyree's maxi is a big part of your future and he is not a six foot I did as it turns out.
So this is going to be a change for him. It's not something he's incapable of doing certainly,
but it will be interesting to see how he handles that defensive personnel and I think the same is
true in a sort of bizarre way on offense too where I think to make up for kind of let's say
just a sluggish, strange personnel conglomerate in Toronto they just went all in on offensive
rebounds and minimizing turnovers and winning the possession game to sort of form an identity
where there was not one naturally. Here he walks into whether Hardin leaves or stays a pretty
organic offensive identity that you could either orient more around and beat postups and nail
touches and isolations or maxi and beat picking rules or Hardin and beat picking rules like it's
it's just sort of degrees of this and I do I do think a couple of things are interesting to me.
I have no idea if Joel and beat is happy or not about the higher, but he was openly miserable
playing against Nick Nurse teams and just always hated like all they do is double and triple
teaming this Nick Nurse guy complaining to the refs and throwing all these goofy defenses at me
well now you get to have them as your coach and I also find it interesting that it's not Mike
Dantonie. I don't know what any of this means for James Hardin you know when I was at the combine
and Doc Rivers was let go at the combine the whisper is going around where okay maybe this kind
of increases Philly's chances from whatever they were to something higher than that of retaining
Hardin and Houston then hours later does not win the lottery and we'll pick what it would have
used in finished third fourth so they will not get Wimbanyama or Scoot Henderson unless there's
a trade of some kind either not getting Wimbanyama I love I do have to say I love that we did
on ESPN.com the here here's what maybe could be a reasonable trade for the spurs trading Victor
Wimbanyama and it was an end statement oh Hardin yeah I mean we'll see I mean again I'm sure
that Darryl Mori has contingency plans for how to retool the team in the event Hardin leaves I
just can't I just don't know what they are because they won't have cap space and they don't have
like a great deal of draft picks to attach to say Tobias Harris's contract or whatever they'd have
to move but certainly in terms of in terms of tactician and and stuff it's it's an interesting
higher it would be I'm also interested to see how everybody gets along because I think the situation
in Toronto had run its course for everybody involved. Yeah also one of the interesting questions I
think is look we're about to talk about the Milwaukee higher those jobs have a lot of similarities
in terms of you walk in with teams that have the capability win the championship next season if
they bring everybody back but the downside risk of what happens if some of those players leave and
then long-term are Joelle and Beaton Yannis and Edicumbo going to be with those teams or are you
walking into a rebuild at some point did you have a preference between those two jobs? I haven't
thought about them in that what I haven't thought I probably would prefer Milwaukee but yeah certainly
there were a lot of whispers around the league about like oh is the Philly job kind of secretly the
worst job that you want to get is the like what is it going to be a rebuild in two years who's
even going to be on the team to some coaches a rebuild would actually give you some jobs because
the expectations will suddenly vanish let's turn to Milwaukee where the bucks after dismissing
Mike Budenholzer have hired Adrian Griffin to his first head coaching job in the NBA has been
an assistant all across the league under some great minds and great head coaches including most
recently Nick Nurse beat out Nick Nurse and Tenney Atkinson among others for the job after what
was described to me is just like any people around this were incredibly impressed with how the
bucks went about this process the fact that they traveled in person to every interview that
like no zoom we're meeting in person we're going to break bread obviously Janice was consulted
in person also I was told and just the thoroughness of the questions and the exact it wasn't just
okay give me the PowerPoint it was there was a great dialogue and back and forth and
a first time head coach landing this job is quite a statement of faith in that in that person
and Adrian Griffin what are your thoughts on that and look we've seen first time head coaches
out a lot of success recently in this league I mean Nick Nurse himself as an example of that
like Toronto took a pretty big risk to fire Dwayne Casey coming off of a coach of the year season
and promote Nick Nurse from his bench and obviously they didn't coach the same teams Dwayne Casey
didn't get a chance to coach Kauai Leonard but the Raptors did everything they possibly could
with that group in that year's that year's championship run I think the other interesting thing
about and in this applies to both of these jobs is like there's kind of only downside to them
in the regular season because it's going to be hard to be much better in the regular season than
these two teams were under Mike Boutinels are in dock rivers and no one is going to be impressed by
whatever you do in the regular season because the question is always going to be will it translate
in the playoffs well I mean the exception I think would be if Hardin leaves and Philly becomes
an instantly different team and they're like oh my god this six have a misdeed and Milwaukee
obviously he's got some big you know we're sitting here talking as if their roster is a certainty
going forward and Chris Middleton has a player option and Brooke Lopez is an unrestricted free agent
like they've got to make some pretty big decisions and they don't have a lot of optionality if they
decide to not have those players on their team or those players decide to not be on their team and
that's the honest is certainly watching all of that quite closely as he was this coaching higher the
one thing I've heard about Adrian Griffin is you know he's had he's been under Billy Donovan and
Tom Thibito and on and on and on working under Nick Nurse who love them or not love them is one
of the more creative tinkerers in the NBA who will throw out box him one and triangle and two and
you know re re reinvented the Raptors offense to whatever degree it worked around this just
totally out of sync with the rest of the NBA identity of offensive rebounding and crashing
four guys to the glass I think and what I've heard is he he really Adrian Griffin really valued
sort of watching that up close it after working under some of the more taciturn
Kirk coaches in the league to see this up close I think he he took a lot from that and maybe this
will be like one of those Mike Brown things where a guy sort of his cumulative experience ending in
this very different for him most recent experience for Mike Brown it was the Warriors and the whole
Warriors culture of joy and passing and stuff puts this person in position obviously Mike Brown had
been a head coach several times to do his best work on a team that fits him best I think it's
an interesting hire though because it's certainly not the easiest one to make it's certainly not the
like the oh well all the Twitter people are going to be super impressed with this guy because I don't
think a lot of people know what Adrian Griffin is as a coach and I can't claim to really either
yeah I mean look assistant coaches especially if they have moved around a bit or a bit of blank
slate from that standpoint and you know as much credit as is they deserve for the throw in S of
the hiring process one of the things that the bucks in Adrian Griffin still have to address when
he's introduced to the media is his ex-wife's domestic violence allegations against him on Twitter
a few years ago and you know we've seen teams not handle that well the Portland Trailblazers when
they introduced to Johnson Phillips I think only made that situation worse with the way they tried
to tamp down questions about it so I hope that they're open and transparent about why they they
still decided to hire we we shall see I believe Adrian Griffin's daughter has defended him pretty
staunchly I made all of that but here we are KP the Miami Heat or in the NBA finals after tonight's
win I said on get up this morning that if I had to pick one outcome type for this game and you
can broadly put them into like four buckets comfortable Boston win comfortable Miami win close
Boston win close Miami win I would have reluctantly and with my stomach feeling queasy queasy is the
word I use picked a comfortable Boston win and boy oh boy was I wrong I don't know where comfortable
Miami win would have ranked there I could have even ranked second it could have ranked second I
don't know maybe maybe would have ranked third maybe would have ranked fourth but that's what we got
I mean close Boston win even though it happened in game six seemed pretty improbable to me
close Boston win might have been fourth and then you just have to decide between you know close
Miami win or blow out Miami win we got blow out Miami win and it's quite a moment for the heat
and quite an upgrade moment for the Celtics and now we get the NBA finals the thing that all this
who's going to leave in free agency and who's the next unhappy star and what are the rumblings
about this player getting along with that player and the offseason machinations that draw the most
clicks and they do draw the most clicks and they do draw the most listens they're all about this
series right here trying to win it the last series two teams left playing for the NBA championship all
those moves all those rumors the whole reason you're interested in them is because they think you
think rather they can get your team to this point where the whole world is watching and the whole
world will be watching Serbia will for sure be watching the Denver nuggets in the Miami heat open
in Denver on Thursday there will be a lot to talk about mr. Kevin Pelton thanks for staying
up late with the low post podcast sir beauty the West Coast not even staying up late yeah yeah yeah
brag about Pacific standard time mountain time I'm coming baby I like to in between time zones I
think they offer the best of both worlds like when I wake up at 7 30 in California KP like the whole
world's been going on fast forward what what did I miss I like I'm gonna give mountain time I like
mountain time I like central time I'm excited thank you sir thanks for having it
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