And now the lobe has welcomed to the low post podcast. Hope everyone had a good fourth
of July. It's now the fifth of July. NBA free agency is mostly over minus the Christian
wood and a grant Williams at a PJ Washington over here and over there. But trade season
is not over as the Damien Lillard James Harden nexus of disgruntled guard whatever continues
to Royal on and we're very excited for the first time in a long time. A true pioneer
in this business and I mean that sincerely. The first guy ever to do cap analytics, exes
and owes, humor, coffee analysis all in one place from the former. I don't remember
what your title was with the Memphis Grizzlies. I'll just say director of game operations
and assume you were responsible for all of grids, the mascots, high jinks, John Howlinger.
How are you? I'm doing great. How are you doing? I am doing well. I'm doing well and you
are going to be in beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada for Victor Wimbledon Yama's debut, correct?
Yes. Yes. I will. Exciting times. This will be the third time I've seen him in Las Vegas,
though. I saw him play twice there in October. I wish I had been at those games. Those must
have been, were people just cackling and smiling during the games? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Total. Yeah.
It was just looking at each other like what? What? What did I just see? Yeah. It was unbelievable.
And I mean, it wasn't like a big crowd or anything. And I'm going to say 98% of the seats were
filled by NBA personnel of some kind. You know, like there weren't like casuals coming into that.
That this, this, it'll be different in Vegas. I'm sure Thomas and Mac will be completely packed
to the gills. So it'll be sort of a different experience. Well, Portland, the Portland
Trailblazers did not get Victor Wimbledon Yama. They moved up from I think fifth to third and got
Scoot Henderson. And they, we've already talked about it ad nauseam. They did not trade the pick.
And Damien Lillard about a day into free agency finally pulled the trigger on the trade request.
The spurs are kind of a natural transition to do it. Our Ramona Shelburn has reported that I think
the words she used were that Damien Lillard has deep respect for the spurs and that we should sort
of have them on at least the back burner of the list with the list reading mostly Miami, Miami,
Miami, Miami, Miami, Miami, Miami, other things. And I've heard the same thing. I think Dame does
have a deep respect for the stability and steadiness and what the spurs stand for. And certainly now
they have a transcendent talent there. But we are now in day five of Damien Lillard official Damien
Lillard trade watch. Not much noise has happened other than Portland making it known. Oh, we're not
in a rush. We don't love the Miami heats offer. We're not just gifting you to the Miami heat. We
don't necessarily think we owe you that part of the reason for that is that we also currently
owe you $200 million. So, you know, we've taken some care of you. I do think they will try to
direct Dame to a place he would be happy with. But let's start with Miami, Mr. Hollinger.
If the heat decided to throw everything in and they may not ever decide to do that, they may
say we have the leverage of being his preferred choice by a mile. We don't have to throw everything
in. But if they decided to throw everything in, which would mean waiting a few weeks is we'll get
they could get to Tyler Hero some salary filler you can pick. Three first round picks if they
were to amend the pick they owe the Oklahoma City Thunder. Not just two. They could throw a swap
in there somewhere. Yes. Nicola Yovic and Jaime Hakez if they waited a few weeks for him to be
tradable. So, let's review Hero. Talk about him. He's a very polarizing player.
Salary whatever. This is again the whole kit and kaboodle. I'm not saying they've offered this
or they will offer it. So, let's play out exactly what it could be. Three first round picks.
Let's say they're all unprotected. A swap. Yovic Hakez. What do you think of that offer?
I think that's a good offer if you're Portland. I don't think that Miami needs even needs to go that
far. I think they're offered with just three firsts and putting see the key is there's a timing
aspect for Miami because they need the olidepotrate to be part of this trade. This is why I have you on
because you're always going to you're always going to remind me of like this wrinkle already happened
and you forgot about it. So, yes, I forgot that Victorola Depot now plays for the Oklahoma City
Thunder. Yes. So, if they can make it make it olidepot plus hero or nobody's talking about this
for some reason, olidepot plus lowery. Like, I don't know why lowery is expiring. It isn't like
being talked about as part of this. I guess Miami figures in a three way deal they can get something
for hero and then send it to Portland. They may not want hero and Lillard both on the books for
years too. But anyway, one of those two plus olidepo plus yogic gets you there, right?
And so, I think when you do that and then add in three firsts, which they can do,
you change a protection with Oklahoma City. The Thunder should not fight them on this, right?
To change from top 14 protected in 25 and unprotected in 26 to just unprotected in 26
is a clear win for the Thunder. So, they shouldn't have to be like, oh, you need to give
us all this other stuff in order to do that. So, that in that opens the 24 pick and they can do 24,
28 and 30 unprotected if they wished. You use the word good to describe that offer.
I have used the word palatable to describe Miami's best possible offers. I'm glad you said the word
good. I don't necessarily think I would go to good. I'll stick it palatable and be comfortable
with that. But I feel like I've been in not quite crazy town, but like something adjacent to
crazy town where everyone is acting like the heats offer is a pile of dog poop. And I'm like, well,
look, Tyler Hero, he's not amazing, but I think he's actually still a decent to praise. I think
he's a good NBA player. Like he's not, people have made the Jordan pool comps endlessly and now in
the last week, it's been, well, look, I mean, the Warriors had to throw in a pick to dump Jordan
pool. Well, they got a good basketball player, old, but good in Chris Paul. And B, like Tyler
hero has been demonstrably better than Jordan pool. He Tyler hero is an actual legit elite three point
shooter. Jordan pool is a career 33 to 34% three point shooter who once the league started calling
carries this year. Remember, they called him with like three carries in one game. I felt like his
whole game was off kilter from that moment on. And the bizarro turnovers just continued. So I think
Tyler hero, yeah, maybe you can't flip him for two really good firsts or even one really good first
in five seconds or whatever. I think he's fine. I think he's fine. Three unprotected. And you can,
I see you know, Yovic and and Hakez are, you know, they don't profile is really good starters
on a good team. Okay, like, sure, do you know that now? I mean, I don't know what do you think
of those guys? I'm not a draft Nick like you. Like, I don't know. Yovic graduated high school. Yovic
graduated high school like five months ago. Like, what do we know about these guys?
I like, I like talk as a lot coming into the draft. And I liked him specifically for his ability
to help a good team fairly immediately. I think he fits a lot better Miami. And what they're trying
to do than he does in Portland. So either to me, Miami tries to keep Hakez and puts Yovic in the
deal because Yovic is more like the speculative long term guy. And then if it really got to three
unprotected picks, the assumption everyone has is that well, when is a heat unprotected pick ever
really paid off the heat as long as Riley is there and spulster is there are going to try to
compete every year. Well, sure, I'm sure they will. Sometimes they fail. Like, it's not unfathomable
for the heat to, um, to backslide for a couple of years. I mean, if they were to pull this off,
Damien Lillard's almost 33 Jimmy Butler's 30, whatever. Bam is amazing and young, but he's not
a number one option on a great team who can like, well, we as long as he's on the team, we're confident
we'll be good forever. Like I think unprotected heat 20, 28, 20, 30 picks are valuable assets. If,
if you were to acquire them, I don't think it's the, it's not the best offer. It's not an amazing
offer. It's not what the net's got for Kevin Durant. Damien Lillard's also not Kevin Durant. He's
not seven feet tall and contract is worse. He's what is contract is worse. I was going to say his
contract is now Durant makes in the next three years Durant's contract is 48, 51, 54 gone,
expired. Damien's is 45. So less year one, 49, less year two, 59, 5 million more in year three,
or whatever it is, 63 player option in year four. So he's not Kevin Durant. And I don't think
that offer is as bad or whatever as it has made out to be the other thing and I'll let you go is,
I think we need, I think there are two trades we need to throw away as points of comparison,
at least two recent ones. One is Biel. Throw it away. It's an anomaly. Do not use it as a comparison
to any other trades. The no trade clause just made that a complete anomaly. The other is Go Bear.
No one can explain what in the hell happened with Go Bear. But don't start stacking up while Go Bear
was worth this. So my guy must be worth this. The Go Bear one is like, we're all just going to
remember that is what? How? Where? So like throw those away. So that's the Miami offer. You think
it's okay. Are there any other, like go through the list of plausible damn suitors, start with
whatever one you like and tell me how you think that offer compares to the one we just outlined.
If the heat ever gets there, because as we said, they may not. That's why I think that that is the
best offer and Miami might not even need to go that far. Because if you look at the other teams
that are plausible Lillard teams, what do they even have to put in? They call it running a business
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Like what is what is the Clippers offer? Even look like, right? It's it's okay. Well let's
let's go through it. What is it? Because I don't think the Clippers have even come up much because
people assume that they have nothing, but they don't have nothing. So like let's go through go
through what it is. Right. It's going to be like basically expiring slop. Like they can put
enough together with Morris, Covington, whatever. Maybe send Norman Powell back to Portland.
And then you're looking at picks in 28 and 30. First in 28 and 30. And then I don't know. Like
we have a future second from Detroit. Like you know, but like you're going to have to throw in
Terrence Man and Kobe Brown, the guy you just drafted. And maybe you like Brandon Boston,
you know, like if you throw all the good young players in the Clippers, can at least
these sure throw bones in the Clippers can at least make a call. And it's not like the blazers can
just be insulted that you even called. Like if you offer all the young guys and all the picks,
the two picks and whatever if you use they've been a swap available. I don't know. Like
it's not a good offer. It's not going to win the bidding. But you've been on these calls. Like
there are calls you are probably embarrassed to make. There are calls where the other guy would
be justified and basically saying like, dude, do call me when you have a real offer. Like that's
not a you call. That's like a call you made that you can make in good faith. Yeah. Now let me ask you
the other Clipper question. Would they do Paul George for Damien, Lily? No, I don't think so.
Truthfully, I haven't even thought of that because all the Paul George stuff was, well,
immediately like James Hardin for Paul George and the Clippers were never doing that. That was
never going to be a thing. Yeah. I just I don't think they view these lateral star for
star trades involving Paul George as additive enough to help them in a Western conference in which
if you go through the teams, they've probably lost a ground in this off season. They lost
their Gordon. They got KJ Martin. I think that was a great signing for them. You can play back up
five. He adds a jolt of athleticism that they need. But Denver is still Denver. I think the
Lakers got better. The Suns got better. The Warriors. I think got better. The Kings will have the
benefit of continuity. And I think they got a little better. I think the Clippers are looking
around like now right now. And obviously we all focus on the health of their two big guys.
But I think they're looking around. I was like, is this is this this past us by which is why I think
they will come back to the table at some point on Hardin. If they've let I don't know if anything's
on the table. Food has been served. Appertiefs have been consumed. I don't even know what the state
of the table is. But that's the Clippers. All right. So that's the Clippers. What else?
For Dame. For Dame. Well, okay. So San Antonio, I think, is preposterous. I just don't see why
on Women Yama's timeline, you would agree to have a 36 year old Damien Lillard making 60 million
dollars. Like that makes no sense to me at all.
Raptors. So another person tried to pitch me on the Raptors. What is the trade Scotty Barnes?
I don't think they would. Because I'm going to preface it as I'm saying I don't see a Raptor's
trade. But you you could sell me on what the Raptor's trade is. I think it's either Siacham
Rananovie and three first. Can they trade three first? They can't. So the pick they owe to San
Antonio is top six protected in 24. If you say, look, we're probably not going to suck this year.
We're not going to be in the top six picks. We'll be able to give you 26, 28 and 30 with a very
high probability. I think you can sell that and you're getting Siacham. That's pretty good, right?
Do I want Siacham? If I'm the Blazers on a $38 million expiring contract and I might have to
extend it, many may not have a ton of trade value for that reason. Is that interesting to me?
Yeah, that's where I mean a lot of these scenarios really are three team scenarios where it depends
on how much of the league values the main guy in the trade because I mean, I think that was Miami's
angle was we can trade effectively trade hero for picks that we then send to Portland for Lillard,
right? And the the place that it seems like might be a little bit of a stumbling block if the
rumor mill is anything is that they haven't really found that team for hero yet.
And of course, you know, the Portland glut of guards has been the subject of much discussion.
Do we need to add another score first weak link defender to our collection of
skin Henderson and Anthony Simons and Shade and Sharp? Well, a very different games and skill sets.
I get that's a semi-legic concern. I'm not that concerned about it depending on who the player is,
like if it were Tyres Maxi, for instance, I don't think I would be that concerned about it because
I think his upside is that is that interesting. Can we just let's just stop on the spurs for a second
because I agree with you. I don't think conceptually it makes a ton of sense for them to go all in
and get Damien Lillard right now. I just don't I don't it's also not a spurs thing to do. They have
this nice young core of I love the cell. I'm a big dev in the cell fan. Keldin Johnson is solid.
I love Sohan. Trey Jones is fine. Like they malachai brand him. I think he's going to become an
interesting player this year. People probably didn't watch him much last year. I think he's going to be
solid. And obviously, Wembee. Don't sleep on Julian Champani. Okay, I won't. I'll stop sleeping
immediately. I've now I've now woken up. Yeah. And they have all their own picks. They have two
unprotected hawks picks. They have a Charlotte lottery protected pick that they may never get
because Charlotte and Charlotte may become second round picks. They have the Raptors pick and they
have a bull's pick. So they can throw a mill they could throw like a million picks. The question
would be what is the talent the actual talent going back if if any because they have capsules to
make a lopsided trade. So they could offer like big German plus another small salary plus all the
picks. I just don't think Portland is making this trade without a real player coming back. And if
you're the spurs like is it worth like is it worth trading one of our core young guys. If we're
trying to win immediately, which we have to be if we have Damien, it's just it's a hard needle to
thread. I'm not seeing. Yeah, I don't I don't think so at all. This is not this is not Oscar
Robinson teaming up with Karim. It's a we're in a different time now. Before we get to the Sixers
and the connected unhappy guard. Can I take you through a few more fake ones? Yes, yes.
Boston Malcolm, Brogdon, Robert Williams, and let's say three first round picks and three swaps.
And maybe I have to I may have to add in a little more salary. Let's just just pretend that that's
easy to do. Brogdon, Robert Williams, three Boston picks. Well, maybe maybe we can do the Warriors
pick that the Celtics now have courtesy of your Memphis Grizzlies, which is top four protected,
I think, two unprotected Boston picks, three first round swaps, pointedly not Jalen Brown.
I have said repeatedly, I don't think everyone's favorite fake trade Jalen Brown for Damien Lillard,
one for one makes sense really for either team. I expect Jalen Brown to come back on a super max
to Boston. I know that hasn't been signed yet. I don't think that's a sign that he's going to be
traded. I could be wrong. I think they're probably haggling over all the little fringe stuff that
happens with super maxes, you know, no trade clauses. I mean trade kickers, no one will get a
no trade clause ever again for a long time. Trade kickers, et cetera, et cetera. What do you think of
that? I think the only hold up on that is how expensive a team to the Celtics want to have.
Yeah, because you'll have three players making 160. You're going into ball money with that team.
Once you do Brown's extension, Lillard's extension kicks in, Tatum's going to have a huge extension
in 25. Like those teams are going to be crazy expensive, repeater tax, like it's, and you're going
full ballmer on that team. So I think that's the part that makes it hard. You can probably get to
the point on contracts and picks where you feel pretty good about it. You know, maybe they have
to put Derek White in instead of Robert Williams, which I can't do. I can't do that now. Well,
I guess I could. I'm getting a guard back. I'm getting a guard back. That's a good one because it's
like it's, it's workable. That just gets to be such an expensive team when you go down the line.
You just, you're, you're fenix basically, right? You have four like very expensive guys and then
Al Horford. I do think the argument for that for the, the, the, the counter to that concern would
be we can solve that problem in a couple of years with the trade. Maybe it gets, it gets harder
to trade. Dame as he gets older and the contracts get bigger. So maybe, maybe that's, but, but
in the short term, I think that Boston Celtics team vaults over Denver as the favorites to
the NBA championship. And depending on how big you think you are as favorites, I think you can
stomach a little bit more of the, well, let's figure out the money stuff later. If we think we've
bumped our title odds up from what, what are they now? I don't know what they would be now, but like,
if we've tripled them to the point that we're the outright favorite in the NBA. And I think
Dame plus Brown plus Tatum plus Porzinga plus Horford plus White, blah, blah, all the stuff that's
left over, I think they would be. I think it probably right, especially in that like these next two
seasons. So that's why I think that that is a really interesting deal. The Lillard raises their
offensive ceiling. And I think they offensively is where they've run into a lot of trouble in
these late playoff rounds where it's just Tatum, Tatum, Tatum, Tatum. And I think, I think Lillard
gives them that. How much does he make them step back because defensively Boston was really airtight.
And now you take away smart. And you put Lillard into the lineup. That changes some things
at that end too. But overall, I'm probably more scared of them with with Lillard than with those
players you mentioned. I think Portland might say the same thing they would say about the heat
picks, although I think with more conviction, which is how interested are we in Boston Celtics
picks if they have Jason Tatum and Jill and Rowan on their team? Are those going to be the 25th,
the 28th, the 27th? You're just never you're just never getting a good pick because Tatum and
Brown are going to be there for the next decade. Yeah, I think that's a real concern. Now, I mean,
I will say for anyone Portland is doing a team deal with like you are not getting Charlottes
unprotected pick out of this, right? Like you're you're going to head up with the pick from a good
team and you just have to hope they stop being good somewhere on that timeline of when you have
those picks. So I think Miami's a better bet for that than a lot of other teams. Well, except for
you know, that's where like a spurs deal or I guess we have to talk about the jazz because they
just have so much stuff. I run into the same timeline problem with them. Yeah, that doesn't that
doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, you saw I would do that. Utah you'd have to really be
confident in like the Lillard, Mark and in Kessler, like that trio gets us into the top four of the
West. And I'm not sure that it really does. The West is just absolutely stacked again. It's not
stacked with like 60 win teams, but it's stacked with like 48 to 53 win kinds of teams, I think.
Yeah. But, but with San Antonio and Utah, I could at least wager against multiple teams if I
wanted to, if I work, if I had my pick up from of picks from their basket of picks, I could be like,
let me take a Minnesota pick here and a Cleveland pick here with the spurs like, let me take a
Charlotte pick here and then it land a pick over here and I can at least bet against multiple
teams. But yeah, I don't love the Utah one. Okay, I've got some crazier ones. You ready? Yeah.
So, one that I just wanted to not dismiss right away, but people have, Chris Haines said on his
podcast, Minnesota may have reached out. I can't verify that. I have not, I don't have that reporting.
But a cat for Lillard trade is like a favorite among the sort of Twitter Adi. I just, I love that as
a fake trade, but I don't think there's any chance that would happen in real life. Well, I mean,
I love it for Minnesota. Like, Dame Ant go bear signed me up. I don't really think, you know,
all this stuff we're saying about Lillard's contract, you can say about cat's contract,
except he's younger. Cat is 36 million, 52 million, 56 million, 61 million, 65 million over
the next five seasons has one zero playoff series. Not his fault necessarily has not also has
not shined in the post season has fouled out of a lot of games and has a lot of like 11 point
stink aromas. But I just, if I'm poor and I'm like, is that so I'm now building around cat at
that money? Am I that excited about that? I don't think I am. I'd rather have a bundle of picks.
In Minnesota has no picks. Goodbye picks. Stifle tower. Okay. It's not at least a little interesting
that you already have those guards in Portland and then you bring in cat.
Don't sell me out of that. I just dismissed it. It's a little interesting. It's a little interesting.
It's a little interesting. It's a little interesting. You probably don't do it if you're
Portland, unless they throw McTanielson, which is probably where it hangs up the phone.
Okay. Here's one that's a little out of the box. Okay.
You're fighting Chicago Bulls. Zach Levine Patrick Williams. Patrick Williams is the big one
for me because I'm on the lookout for rookie scale guys and he's toward the end of his rookie
scale and are not many rookie scale studs. We'll get to maxi later. Yeah. That I can realistically
take a look at and say maybe that team, that guy's team wants to give me a little. Zach Levine,
Patrick Williams. Portland gets its pick back from the Bulls. They owe the Bulls the top. I think
eight, it's top whatever. It's top 14 protected through 2028. I think it's through 2,570. Yes.
I give you that pick back. Then if I really, if I'm just really feeling like I got to beat
Miami's offer and that's not enough because there are questions about Levine as polarizing as hero,
better, but polarizing and more expensive. So maybe I got to get more creative. I call the spurs
and I say, hey, can we amend the protections on the pick we owe you so that I can toss in two more
first round picks to Portland. So I can get up to three if I include the Portland pick that I'm
giving back two of my own Zach Levine, Pat Williams. I get Damien Lillard to be my point guard.
Don't really have a point guard on my team. Kind of a problem or one that I really trust.
I have Dame de Rosen, Luchvich. We will guard no one, but we're going to be amazing on offense.
And we already, I was going to say we already don't guard anyone. They were top 10 defense last
year. I'm not even really sure how that happened. So maybe it's the other way. Maybe like we
magiced up a top 10 defense once. We could maybe we could magic it up with Damien Lillard. You have
to be a Levine and Williams booster, booster, booster to get that excited about that trade for Portland.
I don't know what Joe Kronin and the Blazers of Brain Trust think of those guys. I don't think
that's a totally bonkers trade. I like that package better in a hardened trade than in a trade
for Portland. I actually think that makes more sense for Philly than it does for the Blazers.
I don't love the hardened de Rosen mix if I'm Chicago.
Levine, Loki was awesome the second half of last season.
Got his bounce back. Got his finishing back. Absolutely. You worry about the knee with him though
long term. I think that's been I think people have talked about for a while. I mean, there was
an exclusion in it for it even in the opera sheet. He did with Sacramento way back.
And he's paying a lot of money. Not like a big believer in Patrick Williams is
more than just a just a guy. I have said I have said before on this podcast that it will be
2029. And I will be saying things like that guy Pat Williams is only 28 years old. Like it could
still happen. I know we average 11 points again. He shot 43% on corner threes. He never shoots.
Like he's only 28. It could happen. So count me as a Pat Williams. Stan is the kid say.
All right. We're not done with my crazy trades. Okay. Chalk this one up as unlikely to the point
of insanity. But I like it anyways. I'm going to say it. Okay.
Tray young. That's okay. I was saying that one for you. Okay. The Kings Pick.
We can only throw one more in because we traded so many picks for Dejante Murray.
So Tray Young, the Kings Pick that we got for Herter, a 2028 swap, unprotected 2029 pick.
I had a game. Sure. I'm going to go there too.
Teddy Ruxman. And then I add Dame to this. What becomes a weird team. We're like every age range
in the NBA is now represented. Like I've got Dame. I've got rookies. I've got Clint Capella. I've
got Dejante Hunter. I've got Bogdanovic. And like it kind of fits as a win now.
Team. Now I've heard Quinn Snyder is very excited about the opportunity to work with Tray Young and
vice versa. And I think the Hawks just have invested so much in that Tray Young is their guy.
He's their bankable super duper star forever that it feels like a very, very abrupt shift.
And it also, as many of these trades do, gives the Blazers another small guard and a very
defensively challenged small guard. So I don't, I don't love it. But it's worth mentioning.
So you would need a third team for Tray, I think. And to me, the Hawks end up getting older and
more expensive without really getting better or different. It's just a different guy. It's a
different guy running high pick and roll in every place. Okay. Fine.
All right. Well, then let's get to the matter at hand, which is the Sixers and the Harden,
Harden Dame connection. So we've, we've talked about on TV a lot the last couple days.
The idea that the Sixers should go all in for Damia Lillard, which is Coat, which is code for
they should trade Tyrese Maxi. Yes. And whatever draft assets they have, which I believe they
can only trade one first round pick is currently constructed. But they should, they should
make Tyrese Maxi touchable and not totally untouchable as has been reported by Brian Winhorse,
who had a whole running bit on his last podcast about how they wouldn't trade Tyrese Maxi for
Prime Larry Bird and Prime Michael Jordan and Prime World Chamberlain. My issue with that is,
I don't have an issue with it. You are more creative and cap savvy with this stuff than I am. But
the issue that I keep coming back to is it sounds really good to say the Sixers should go all in
and get Damia Lillard and Parian with Joel and Beat. And it does. It sounds amazing. Joel and Beat
is amazing. Damia Lillard's amazing. Their pick and roll would be amazing. The Sixers would be
unbelievable on offense and in Beat covers for everything on defense. I have this other disgruntled
guard over here on the side with a long beard that I also might need to trade. And so
if I'm trading Maxi for Lillard and Harden for stuff and maybe some of the stuff has to go
to the Blazers because this becomes a three team extravaganza. So I only get a portion of the
Harden stuff. Maybe it's Norm Powell. Maybe it's it's some expirings that you mentioned the
Covington Batoon Morris Pupu platter and a pick. Have I made is all of that actually worth it to
me if I'm the Sixers. If the entire starting back court goes out the door and one guard and some
like more speculative pieces come in the door or can I make can you separate these like can you
even say I don't know if you can separate them because let's say I just I wake up one day I'm
Darryl more yeah okay Maxi Tobias Harrison a first round pick for Damia Lillard. We'll just
convince James Harden to come back. That's going to be our team. Is that a is that real life?
I can't tell if that's real life. What are your thoughts? Is it worth giving up Maxi to turn James
Harden into Damian Lillard? I'm not sure it is. It's a harder question than that then the should they
go all in for Damian Lillard framing makes it out to be as my only point I can start there's like
yeah of course we should but like you you you got to know how this Harden thing works out and then
the other the other wrinkle to this obviously is dealing with the Maxi extension and there's this
potential next year for the Sixers staff Max Caproom now I think Caproom has become much less valuable
than it that it was four or five years ago you wrote a wonderful column about this three days ago
thank you I wrote a column about it anything and thank you. A column is a thing where there are
words on it's like yeah it's like a it's like a printed podcast you read it you read it with your
eyes yeah yeah yeah I should do it anyway anyway so yeah I mean all their money comes off after
this year so I think they at least look at that as an opportunity and that if they you know
if there was somebody out there that they would probably be in the in the front pull position
because usually the Caproom teams are bad teams so this is the this would be a little different
where you're signing up to join Joelle M.B. and PJ Tucker I guess I think it's a it's a harder question
I don't know that that makes you better now if now Hardin let's separate Hardin now
let's pretend Lillard is is not gonna be in our trajectory and we just have to trade James Hardin
do they have to trade James Hardin I guess we're going to see let's just say you hear a lot of
competing noise about whether the idea that James Hardin can slink back to the Sixers is a workable
outcome um I don't know that it is I'm not sure I I would lean I don't even I just don't let's
just say I don't know that it is um I have heard like I just don't think there's a lot out there
right now for James Hardin I just don't sense that there's a big appetite among teams to trade
Philadelphia real stuff and the reason why the name Lillard's name comes up for Philly is like
I kind of need real stuff because the other dude on my team is the MVP and if he gets unhappy
or unhappier than he already might be I'm just fucking I'm blowing everything up and the
process is gone to smithereens without a conference final with nary a conference finals appearance
with with more number one picks who either forgot how to shoot or never knew then conference
finals wins so that's a problem and like I don't think the heat are super interested in James Hardin
they're obviously focused elsewhere I don't think the nicks are super interested in James Hardin
if they could get him on the ultra ultra cheap that's one thing I don't know that Philly wants to
do that the Clippers I like I from what I've heard they have been reluctant so far to offer
man picks maybe even Powell and I don't know that the two sides have really even had super
significant dialogue and I don't really know what you do from there do you like Hardin with
the Clippers like what would you if you're Lawrence Frank like how how much do you put in the pot
to get James Hardin on an expiring contract
because the Clippers are our win now team I do think Hardin makes some sense for them that they
need one more guy who can dribble and and make plays and that that guy probably shouldn't be
Russell Westbrook like he's these much better being with the second unit or whatever as good
it like Westbrook was better than I thought way better than I thought he'd be for them
at the end of last year because it was actually like playing defense and doing some other stuff
but the mix is still a little funky with him with that starting group so I do like adding Hardin
with them they'd like to switch a lot and Hardin you know he's he could do that
you know what Hardin likes to switch because it allows him to stand still as the bodies move
around him as long as there's a body in front of me I'm good exactly like everyone's orbiting me
I'm good yeah well it's it's that and then he's strong enough to actually hold his own when
guys try to post a bump so but but what what is there that the Clippers really should be willing
to put in for a guy who's a little older and is expiring and the Clippers you have to think to
yourself we don't have we don't have that many bullets we do need to get this right uh
you know I certainly like Boris and Covington I'm certain they'd be willing to part with
because they like just aren't really in the plans anymore but like Terrace man I'd probably be like
no I'd be like you can you know you can have Highland you can have a future first but I'm not going
crazy on this and then so the other part of this with the Sixers that gets really interesting is
so Darrymory gave us a roadmap for how this is going to go with the Ben Simmons thing right which
is it's going to be water torture for everyone who follows a leak right he's gonna he's gonna start
out ask it for the moon and then he's gonna very slowly roll it back roll it back roll it back
and he's totally comfortable taking this into the season or taking it even to the trade deadline right
even if even if Hardin is doing whatever if he holds out or is acting out or whatever like
I mean Darryl is going to write this out until he has the trade that that he wants and so
I just think this is gonna gonna drag it's gonna take a lot of time so the wild card in that
scenario because obviously Darryl as people like to say is willing to get uncomfortable
yes Darryl Mory likes being uncomfortable um
does Joal and Beat have the appetite for another year or that like that's that's stressful the
load on him gets very big he has to answer questions about it incessantly like I just can't imagine
that Joal and Beat wants to have a second season in three seasons where like this is my life
like there's this whole drama swirling over there and all this other stuff has to be asked of me
by the media and by my team that's the wild card there I will say um
I was listening to Bill Simmons and Ryan Rusillo last week talk about the Hardin trade
going back and looking at the Hardin trade if this ends in disaster for Philadelphia
do they ultimately regret trading Ben Simmons for James Hardin over whatever alternatives might
have existed like Tyree's Haliburton is often mentioned I love Tyree's Halibur and
Dijon they Murray's often mentioned you know I'd have to go back and try to recreate how and when
those alternatives may or may not have ever been available how seriously they may or may not have
ever been available what else would have been part of them the dude turned a guy who doesn't play
into James Hardin like an all star all NBA level player this year until he kind of petered out
toward the end of the regular seasons they were trying to keep him healthy like the sixers one
that the Hardin Simmons trade went from everyone lost and then the sixers one the sixers one that
trade is fine yeah you know when they were up three two against the Celtics and yes you could
tell me that of course James Hardin and the rest of the team fell apart in game six and seven
fine when they went to Boston and spank their ass in game five I didn't hear a lot of like oh man
regret like to do the other dude doesn't play and James Hardin was really going won the trade
no oh absolutely I mean not just won the trade like dancing in the end zone 15 yard penalty for
excessive celebration yeah two first round picks Seth Curry I don't care you won the trade yeah
100% um I agree with you that Hardin fits the clippers he's got a ton of experience running small
small pick and rolls with guards or wings and not the koaliner is a small but they would they would
he would screen for Hardin a lot and they would try to get switches I the the synergy is there
I just think Hardin is paying the price now for if you're trading for James Hardin you know he's 33
or whatever you know he's on an expiring contract he's gonna want money and you know now that
like the pattern is flame out in the playoffs blame everyone else ask for a trade like it's it's
just not that exciting an experience for me to sign up for and I can know everyone thinks it'll
be different with their team and maybe it will be but like that's that's the pattern and I I think
most of that is fair particularly the playoff flame outs I the one Hardin thing I would push back on
is everyone is now making fun of him for asking for a trade all the time I have made fun of him
for asking for a trade all the time I just did 45 seconds ago the Brooklyn thing goes back to
Kyrie for me I think Hardin looked around it was like this thing is a mess this dude's not playing
he's not vaccinated it's drama all the time if that were copacetic I still think that team is
unbelievable and we'll go down as the greatest what if of like the last 15 years in the NBA but
that that's all that that's all like I don't know what else to say on Hardin we should probably
talk about the nets as a potential damn team we haven't talked about that yet I don't really see
that one I know people have talked about it I I just think the nets are better off kind of
writing out what they have with these future first or Phoenix I mean Phoenix may legitimately
have to completely dismantle their team in 26 just because of the cost of it and having the
draft picked frozen and whatnot I know Matt Hp is very excited about this right now but when he
starts to see in those tax bills and the repeater penalty and whatnot like I'm feeling very good
about having 27 29 Phoenix unprotected I'm feeling very good about having Dallas 29 unprotected
I don't think I'm shedding those picks to turn them into damn right now I think if you're the
net you say we're taking our medicine on the Houston pick for the next couple years we have a
halfway decent team and then and then we start our rise after that you know I mean it's tempting
to turn Ben Simmons and Damien Lillard obviously no question if they could pull that off but
I think even with two years left on Simmons I don't know like Portland make turn their nose
up on that even well I get if I'm Portland I need all the I need the Phoenix picks because those
have upside yeah yeah yeah but you run into the question just like you said if if I'm Brooklyn
I can't trade Cam Johnson right I literally can't trade Cam Johnson he's not tradable right
I could you can throw him into a sign of trade I think because he hasn't signed yet
okay so it gets complicated I don't know obviously I'm not trading you McHale Bridges because that
serves nobody's purposes in this acquisition similar with Nick Claxton like I want Nick Claxton
on the team if I'm gonna go all in I'm trading for Damien Lillard so then the question becomes
like other than the picks and maybe the picks are all you want what player am I excited to get
from the Brooklyn Nets which is why in addition to the Ben Simmons salary which is what like I'm
not like Dorian Finney Smith Spencer didn't really like these things don't do anything for me as
the rebuilding Portland Trailblazers maybe they're culture guys I don't know but I can do better
than that somewhere else which is why these three team trades start to come up the other one
people bring up is the Pelicans I just can't find a Pelicans one I know they've got Milwaukee picks
they've got the Lakers pick still coming they've got a bunch of talented players the presence of
McCollum there just like is McCollum going back to Portland am I doing Damien CJ again I can't
trade Zion I just it's too early it's like I don't even know how to value Zion either way like I
just can't find a New Orleans trade despite the fact that they've been murmured about and then
the cost of the Damien salary on a small market team I can't find one they're never paying tax
that's that's the other issue with these guys is I just don't think they're ever paying the tax
and that makes it really hard to execute any kind of Damed Trade I mean you could do in the
short term you could do McCollum in dance the block like when you get into those out there is
where Damien gets 60 it gets hard to have like a real team built around Zion and and Ingram
and Dane making the kind of money they're going to be making I agree I don't really see see that
one can we talk about the nicks because I'm a little surprised we haven't heard more about them
with Dane just because they built up these picks and these assets to chase exactly this kind of star
I thought and it hasn't it seemed like they're just really reluctant to put him next to Brunson
well I think that's the answer right I think yes they've built up all these picks and
I'm bringing up their picks now and they have a top 10 protected still from Dallas
congratulations on the maps for tanking their way and to keep in that pick this year worked out
very well for them I thought the maps had a great draft protected pistons pick protected wizards
pick they may not get we'll see it's 1 to 8 in 2026 1 to 12 and 1 to 10 before that wizards are
tanking like all hell they have a box pick that I think they get if it's between 5 and 30 they're
splitting that pick they have a time share with the pelicans on that pick so like and they have
all their own picks which you know it's the nicks like everything could go who knows what can
happen with the nicks yeah I just think they've what they have learned in the interim is
jail and Brunson's an all star level player he may not have made an all star game but you throw in
what he did in the playoffs like that dudes an all star he's a point guard he's undersized if
we're cashing in our chips I don't think it's for an upgrade of the same kind of player now could
they play together offensively sure jail and Brunson obviously have as as a ton of experience
playing next to another ball dominant player you see more bullish on it than me I just kind of
disqual I kind of threw the nicks out because of how good Brunson got and I'm just I'm waiting on
the other guy in filly if I'm the nicks and other associated players who played that hard into
and probably a better no not harder the bet the better guy in filly cork my if if I can get
cork my with mb I'm waiting on guys like that right can I ask you something is someone to work for
a team yes sure you hear a lot of well one reason the Blazers can should will take care of
damn by which the people mean send him to Miami provided the price is palatable at least is well
it sends if you don't do that if you send him to Siberia then you've sent a bad message to future
potential current Portland shareholders like scoot Henderson and shade and sharp and future potential
free agent trade acquisitions of the Portland Trailblazers that you've got to take care of your
guys to send that message out to the market what is your take on that line of thought I don't
really think that's a thing like honestly I mean look 99% of free agency decisions are based on one
thing right which is which which team can offer the most money then when you get into these
situations with max players like they don't want to go to the same four cities and Portland Oregon
is never going to be one of those cities so like what what what are you doing here like you you
got to make the best the best deal that for your team that that that gives you the best asset hall
now that may end up being Miami just because other teams are leery of him not being happy where he
sent but I mean we ran into this situation twice in Memphis and inevitably you're going to send
the guy to a pretty good situation if he's an older player because like a 20 win team isn't going
to be going after him unless they're just run by morons so so you know mark ended up going to
Toronto because that was that ended up being the best deal we had Mike ended up going to you talk
as that ended up being the the best deal and they you know they both went to really good teams
Mark won the title Mike's team I think had the best record in the league one year so I just think
that's that's inevitably what happens is they go somewhere good and but when a when a player gives
you a list of one destination like you're not required to accommodate that I'm sorry especially when
he asked four years left on his deal and you just extended that deal for two years 120 million or
whatever and made him de facto GM for 18 months I tried to I didn't do a total total deep dive on it
but I did a brief thought exercise of like what team became known as a team that like did right
by their guys and were paid off for it in the long run with with acquisitions and I'm like well
like the nuggets like that was a big Tim Connelly thing is like we're you know even like a
the simple thing of like Jameer Nelson they weren't going to trade Jameer Nelson to a place you
didn't want to go have they gotten paid back for that the most high profile one is probably the
Lakers with Kobe and the extensions they gave Kobe at the end of his career the message to other
stars being like we take care of our stars I don't think that really ended up making a difference
for the Lakers like they had a long drought and then Lebron wanted to live in Los Angeles so
he went to sign with the Lakers I don't think that I maybe I'd actually like to interview Lebron
I think I think no I think though that was the thing that really lured who all
thing and Tim and I say Mazgov to sign there was Kobe's extension the heat like the heat
were pretty cut throat with some of their finances like remember they amnesty Mike Miller
and that really pissed Lebron off I think Lebron was probably the only way to be Mike Miller that
was great for us and but the heat I have paid no price in terms of like their market appeal the
one team I thought about and it's it's unprovable it's unprovable by its nature Boston got hit
pretty hard with the these guys are just ice cold after the Isaiah Thomas trade on top of the
Pierce KG thing but really after the Isaiah Thomas plays through a bit hip injury and they just
dump them and move on with life that dump them they got Kyrie Irving and then Kyrie Irving left
there unhappy with I don't not really sure what but a lot of stuff I guess they kind of got hit
around the league with like that franchise is cold-hearted and we have seen Anthony Davis kind
of signal like I don't want to go there I only want to go to the Lakers and now they're you know
we'll see if they even try to get into the little thing and if that ends up being on his list
they have signed free agents when they've had the money right that hasn't been a problem whether
it's Hayward or Horford or Campbell Walker yeah so I'm not really I'm not convinced that any
reticence a couple of big name players have had about Boston has anything to do with like oh wow
Danny angel my trade me you know who obviously doesn't work there anymore but you know what I mean
but that was the one team I thought like have they paid the opposite kind of price in the marketplace
I'm not sure they have but it's it's I'd like to dive a little more deeply into that
and even that one though that was a trade made for a player right that wasn't a that wasn't a
oh this guy demanded a trade we're like moving them on for assets and whatever this was like no
we have a chance to get Kyrie Irving here's what we have to offer here's the matching salary it
makes no sense to play Isaiah Thomas with Kyrie Irving and oops Isaiah Thomas is damaged goods too
um but all right I have no additional thoughts on Damien Lillard and James Harden other than while
we were recording this Matisse Thible uh current Portland Sheryl Blazer free agent is going to
sign an offer sheet with the Dallas Mavericks which I presume will be for some obif not all of the
big mid-level exception which I think Dallas has all of left yes do you have any thoughts on his
potential fit in Dallas before we move on to this and that winners and losers afraid and see
as what I wanted to do next okay I didn't really I didn't really have strong feelings about Dallas
either way but um what if if Thible goes there on if the Blazers elect not to match what do you
what do you think of his potential uh fit uh I think that's a perfectly good deal for Dallas I mean
they need a wing defender Thible's a pretty inconsistent shooter and that's what he's going to be
asked to do in Dallas so that's going to be the swing skill you know is he is he going to be too
tragic on offense to stay on the court and to play off game that that's the whole question with
him right because he I mean defensively we know like he's he's really good he's really good in
in zones especially so I the fit obviously makes sense on that end yeah Dallas is collecting
here are the guards slash wings that Dallas is collected in the last two weeks
or is or is bringing back Seth Curry good contract if you if you have him and Kyrie and Luca on
the floor defense is going to be rough Tim Hardaway Jr coming back okay contract if you're
going to have him and Kyrie Irving and Luca dutch on the floor defense is going to be rough
Reggie Bullock guaranteed to shoot 27% from three for the first two months of the season then
heat up as the season goes on and then be like semi unreliable in the playoffs Josh Green
really good feel for the game playmaker defender the shooting piece is inconsistent
Dante Exum apparently has been lighting it up overseas so we'll see
Jayden Hardy who I thought really came on strong to finish a lot of it was with the ball in his
hands we'll see how he looks off the ball but certainly can attack a close out I like that one
Olmax Prosper the guy they just drafted I will learn about him as he gets into the NBA
and thigh bowl who it's not even the shooting that makes me the most nervous though that does make
me quite nervous you know you just like these guys just never you see it in the playoffs all the time
these guys miss three threes in a row and the coaches just like I can't play this dude like I just
can't play on like and then one game he'll hit a couple and like all the titles back in the
rotation then the next game it's like oh can't plan it's that but it's it's like the inability to
make a playoff the dribble to me is what his dog thiable even more maybe than his shooting now
they're connected right like if people aren't going to close out on you then it's hard to like pump
and blow by them but even when he has an opportunity he's just not comfortable with it and I think
that is just as important and ingredient in like a spread pick and roll Luca heavy offense
as almost as important as making shots and he just has made well he's a good cutter he's a damn
good cutter maybe that will help but there my point is like all of these names are interesting
it's almost like baked into it that they're expecting half of them to not work out and hoping
that half of them do work out and they're fit around Luca and Kyrie is it's it's gonna be interesting
to see sort of how all of that shakes out but I didn't have them on my winners or losers
yeah I I really thought they would use that room to go after a four and maybe they just got priced
out on Grant Williams and PJ Washington whoever else is available but to me that's the that's the
hole on their roster right now and they have one open roster spot in their mid-level so the
fiber was kind of a weird place to go with it unless they also think they have a hard way trade
that they can like sign a trade in for Grant Williams somehow okay pick a team you want to talk
about is either a winner or a loser and the team you pick first will determine to me whether you
are an optimist or a pessimist in life whether you want it what do you thrive on negativity and
you're a hater or whether you want to bring sunshine and positivity to the world all right uh
let me let me go to the dark side I knew it typical typical typical nerd guy what did you think of
this extension for subonus you're gonna criticize demonis subonus's extension after the guy played
the whole season with a broken thumb got stomped on in the playoffs for a team that hadn't
been to the playoffs in eons I gotta look I gotta look up the numbers I gotta see do we know
exactly what the numbers are yet it's a hundred ninety two million in new money now Sacramento
can do this a couple different ways they're they're not they're gonna add something at least eight
million to his number this year somewhere between eight million in all their cap room and I
presume it depends on what else they do with their cap room and then basically on top of that he's
getting a top of that eight million he's getting a four year max uh so that for some of that four
year max may end up in this season depending on how they structure the money but to me it's like
so it's almost gonna be 50 a year for the subsequent four years yes exactly so it's like
you could have just given him the four year max a year from now and I don't think anyone else
was gonna fight you on it and even if somebody had come in you still had that fifth year in your
back pocket where you do a partial fifth year or whatever and then you you win that way so you're
what you're what you're saying is I can't you you as the kings you don't think you should have
been that worried about we traded Tyree's Halliburton for you and you're a flight risk and free
agency you know you wouldn't have been too worried about that I guess I didn't see him as a huge
flight risk based on the position they're in and based on subonus being not just a center but sort
of a cullure kind of center that you really have to you have to make him the focal point of your team
if you bring him in and so he doesn't fit everywhere he doesn't fit in a lot of places especially
if you look at like good teams right now they're already built around other players and so it's
it's very hard for him to to just like fit in is like a max free agency someplace and then the other
thing is man I just don't think they needed to go this far on the renegotiate and extend to where
like you're already committed to the four year max next like what is what is your win by doing this
now usually it's a it's a back and forth like okay we'll take care of you right now but the way
we're going to take care of you is we're going to give you an extra bag this year and then you're
going to give us something back in these out years miles turner yeah exactly now I'm not saying
he's going to get the 40% pay cut next year the turmer cut right like that it's not going to be
anything like that but you know give us a little something here right so I didn't really understand
that and then you know and they gave up that I mean they basically gave up their first round pick
to do this so I have questions there so funny enough I had the kings as like a slight winner
in my winners losers column okay because I I guess I just I guess I had just factored in like
they're going to do this with subonus it's probably fine he's young enough that he'll be worth
the contract they obviously were really really good and despite all the things I just said about
who cares about rewarding your own players does really matter this is a franchise that had not
made the playoffs in 16 years I get just sort of being like let's keep the good vibes rolling
the Harrison Barnes contract is fine like I wish they had found that's where I wish they had found
kind of a more exciting maybe younger alternative they didn't they got him back on a totally
manageable number fine um trails contract fine vizenkov is going to fit like a glove and shoot
to hell out of it around subonus fine duarte nice flyer for another wing so you don't have to play
you know maybe you don't play david michael as much as you've although he was fine too and it has
good chemistry with subonus I thought duarte was my favorite move of theirs actually because he's
inexpensive he's still has two years on his deal and he gives him some size in the that
corruption don't really have right now they they did dump 24 to do and rishan homes pointedly
to do all this but they like colby jones the guy they got in the second round I I just think
they're going to benefit everyone is going to be to caution that okay the kings I think the
negative read on the kings is they will be the next example of how development is not linear
and just because you made a big leap this year doesn't mean another small leap is coming maybe
there's regression continuity isn't all that it's made out to be I kind of think the kings are
going to benefit from continuity and if they stay healthy obviously they were really really healthy
yeah it's like crazy healthy last year yeah that's well I mean subonus do play with a bad hand
the whole year but yes um I just I like their youth and togetherness and other than Harris and
Barnes everyone should be on the upswing of their career fox they they they probably they may
I don't want to say probably like if fox doesn't break his finger or the tip of his finger or whatever
it was like they may well get past the warriors like he's emerged to me as a real big game legit
closer clutch player the year etc etc I just like I like the feel of their team and I I think I'm
pretty optimistic that they can carry over their success this year and this whole like well they
could take a step back or they're they're the hunt did not the hunter so get ready for everyone to
give them their best shot I think the kings are me good next year like if you go if you go through
the west Denver's Denver Phoenix is going to be awesome that you can quibble with the fit and you
know the overlapping skill sets and what happens with eight and thought they did great on the
minimums you why did you think I wrote about them yeah I thought they were a big winner in
free agency just from how well they did on their minimums did you who did you specifically I
mean they have like seven of them who did you really like baits deop drew you banks like they
had some deep cuts on guys are like okay you guys were clearly paying attention this year
you banks is is a solid backup center for a minimum you can switch a little bit
on defense they brought a Kogi back baits deop want to not want to not be next corner 3s and
really plays hard defensively I think they did well I think Delacres I mean we we've all talked
about Delacres too much I I I thought they were clear among the winners Tim Bontemps has been on
the case of I think people are going a little overboard with how big winners they were
maybe there's degrees of winning and we can disagree on it I thought they had an awesome
summer did you yeah I mean they they essentially ran it back which is which is fine you know
with a couple little tweaks I mean it's you know Tori and Prince instead of Troy Brown
and Vincent instead of Schroeder but the fact is I mean they they were definitely losing Schroeder
right so the fact that they replaced him with basically equivalent value ish I think is a big deal
and then they got Russell at reasonable money which is sort of the other question mark and
that's now a fairly tradable contract I think so I just think they left themselves in a really
good position and it was like such a a difference from past Laker off seasons where we just see
them chase shiny objects to where it's like no we're actually doing like some real team building here
I thought Hachimura's deal was fine I've talked about him already I have not recorded since the
Reeves deal was official I think the Reeves contract has a chance to be one of the best contracts in
the league from a team perspective and the Lakers got very very lucky that nobody made them pay
through the nose and I know San Antonio was going back and forth on it yeah just for whatever reason
didn't do it I was a rise I thought the spurs would price enforce on them like knowing that the
Lakers would match it but just we're gonna make you pay 25 or whatever it is in those out years
they thought about it that's when we're going to be competing with you and and we just want to make
your life as hard as possible so so the Lakers upgraded their depth I thought and Jackson Hayes will
see I mean he can catch some lobs from LeBron maybe he blossoms there he he's showing glimpses
as like as a switch guy as a switch guy defensively and like they don't really have another backup
center they played Hachimura and Bronn there in the playoffs too backup five when you're counting
on Anthony Davis's health is like the one thing with the Lakers where you're like yeah I don't know
about this but they're a team where I think part of their offseason success is they do get to carry
over the identity that they landed on last season and we're so successful with and they didn't have
it for that long of a time considering they remade their team 50 games in or whatever it was when
the rust trade happened they they discovered their reeds could do this other stuff then LeBron got
healthy like I think they will benefit a lot from we just have a cohesive identity that works
give me another team you wanted to talk about why why am I scratching my head so you want me to
pick someone Indiana say it say it Indiana okay first of all they are not going to be 29th on your
league pass rankings this year right where they were they 30th last year maybe there we were
I thought there were 29 no it doesn't seem it doesn't seem plausible that Tyres Halliburton by
himself automatically get you yeah look I am at the mercy of the algorithm whatever the algorithm
tells me that's what it is so all right Pacers by the way but before you go I had Pacers
clear winner of a winner of the offseason but you go make the case I thought they made the best
their cap space of any of the cap space teams by they got a good player who is also a large trade
exception so like they were able to roll over their money without like having to sign a crappy
clear in order to do it because they have Bruce Brown on this deal where he's making 22 and he's
on a team option so they can go a lot of different directions with that including declining the option
and resigning it as a nine bird free agent to a more reasonable deal next year there's a lot
of different directions they can go there I thought they had this glaring hole at the four I thought
they were going to like chase after PJ Washington or somebody like that they ended up drafting
the Pacers sent the signals of remember they were the herb Simon doesn't let us do offer sheets
team and he made an exception for eight and and it got matched and it was a little bit of a mess
they sent or I heard or they sent around the league like we're not doing offer sheets
yeah yeah they still have the stretch money of Malik Fitz, Joanne Morgan and Nick Stauskas on their
books from that fun times um sauce Castillo so getting getting Obi-Toppin on reasonable money
I thought was good you know he's really good in in open court I'd like to actually see him as a
small ball five in the second unit at times which I think is more plausible on this team
they're still like a little small all over um traded traded Duarte because they just had too many
shooting guards which is which is fine they you know they still might have too many guards by the way
healed matter and shepherd I mean Bruce Brown is six four six five whatever he is um but I just
thought they made really good use of their cap space in a in a way that will help a help them
this year B doesn't hurt them in any of the out years and and see like they just still have a lot
of flexibility I love I think the Pacers are not far from being competitive and by competitive I
don't mean like oh my god they're going to be in the second round but like a decent team so
they're starting five if I had to guess is going to be Halle Burton who's awesome and they gave him
all the money and he deserved it yep Mathorin I'm guess we'll get we'll I'm going to guess we'll
walk into the starting five next season we'll see there's a lot of competition Bruce Brown
because you don't pay Bruce Brown 20 whatever million dollars to not start Topin Turner that's a
that's a fun lineup now Topin's got to make shots but there's a lot of playmaking and like IQ
and motion with a shooting five in an elite elite distributor point guard who could shoot
three is really really well that's a fun lineup yeah I still got buddy healed off the bench
Jaros Walker probably walks in off the bench I got a bunch of point guards TJ McConnell Nebhart
I got a fun backup center battle between Jill and Smith and Isaiah Jackson and we haven't even
gotten to like Neuara I think we'll get some minutes at the three and the four Shepard you mentioned
like they just have a neat kneesmith might have to fight for minutes after starting last year
and Andrew Deshart yeah they are the high end high end high end talent isn't there yet around
Halle Burton into a lesser degree Turner it I think they're going to be super fun to watch next
year and it could definitely be like in the play internament yeah totally totally great all right can
I pick a team now yeah sure can we we need to talk about the Raptors I think yes and by extension
the rockets who swiped Fred Van Vleet from the Raptors by going to three years 130 million
third year team option though third year team option is interesting Raptors didn't really
come all that close on the dollars Michael Grange has a has a piece on it today
and you know they drafted Grady Dick they resigned Yaka Pertle four years 80 Trent Opsin
we'll see what happens with Trent and an Obi still here Siacham still here Barnes still here
and they're kind of straddling different paths and different eras of the franchise which
which is fine because none of their core players are like old like Pascal Siacham's 28 or 29 I
think but they're but but the the sort of just just the dissonance of Van Vleet out Pertle in
is is a strange double um what you've already traded next year's draft pick and it's
only top six protected so you're you're kind of you're kind of trying to win next year but
I wonder how much Trent opting in wrong foot at then because at that point then when you
then when you Max Van Vleet now you're 20 30 million into the tax you're you're a very expensive
average team and and I just wonder if that was something they just found unpalatable obviously they're
going to take a seat you replace Van Vleet with Dennis Schroeder you're going to take a step back
yeah they just I mean Grady Dick can shoot he's a rookie we'll see how well he plays in the NBA
in his first year and an Obi is is a good standstill shooter obviously can do a lot of stuff I'm just
talking about shooting like they need shooting and Trent can shoot so they but like the Barnes
Ciacum Pertle um shooter for some is is not a great shooting for some and uh and an Obi wants to
do other things other than and can do other things other than spot up it just feels like a strange
they were already strange and now they feel stranger and weirder and I want I wouldn't say ill
fitting but I just think that Ciacum and an Obi Barnes trio it's just they all want to do the same
stuff yeah and they're obviously going to shift a lot of the ball handling to Scotty Barnes which is
a big ask I Grange wrote this today that you know there's another shoot to drop here at some point
and keep your eye on Ciacum I said that last week and I agreed there there's a lot of Pascal
Ciacum scuttle but going on right now I checked around on it over the weekend I'm not sure there's
anything like imminent but I don't think that scuttle but is going to go away in relation to
the Hawks and some other teams like and he's expiring and is he going to extend with the team that
trades for him um are the Raptor is going to extend him I don't think he'll like gamble on making
all NBA again to try to get super max eligible it's just it it feels precarious to me it feels precarious
I would agree with that and in retrospect I mean obviously they should have traded if you have
lead at the deadline I don't know what they had on the table though I just think it was a bunch of
yeah really what I mean the Clippers were interested I just don't know like what did the Clippers have
yeah yeah um I'm sure that I'm sure what did you hear that they had real stuff no I just don't
I just don't think he was ever on the market enough for them to really know what they had
we should flip it around and talk about the Rockets who I don't think it really been analyzed
as a basketball team enough because everyone just has sticker shock from like Dylan Brooks got what
yeah Jocolando got what only the first year's guaranteed fine Fred Van Vleek got what and you look
at their team pure just guess I think their starting five is probably Van Vleek but it probably
no just this is what I would guess that they're starting five Van Vleek green I got to keep starting
jailing green I just I just have I'm high enough on him that no question Brooks because I paid him
a million gazillion dollars Jabari Smith Jr. I'm giving you a shot to start it for and Shengoon
yeah who I'm almost kind of relieved that they didn't get broke Lopez because I just I want to
see what they have in Shengoon because I think he's a look he could be a legit this might sound
crazy I think as an offensive player he could be a legit all-star talent yeah defensively I just
need to see how if they can mitigate the negatives a little bit then off the bench that leaves me with
Kevin Porter Jr. I'm sorry but I just don't know what else to do the the writing maybe on the wall
in that regard I'm in Thompson Tari Eason who I love maybe Jason Tate plays some and Landel
like if you look at green Smith Shengoon Eason Thompson they are just loaded I've been higher
on their young talent for the last two years than almost anybody because they have been so disorganized
and unwatchable and just pure like unadulterated chaos yeah and young teams suck on defense that
you just what they do the you line up those names those are good names like I don't know what this
team is going to be next year and if I were the thunder and I were in possession of their top four
protected pick I would feel like my chances are pretty good at getting like the seventh pick in the
draft or the tenth pick in the draft because I don't think the Rockets are going to make the playoffs
but I find that roster kind of exciting I don't I would be interested to see when all things are
all settled down like where they project in the west because it's just are they better than
Denver Lakers Phoenix Kings Warriors Wolves Mavs Grizzlies Thunder Clippers Pelicans it's like it's hard
man yeah they still have another 12 and a half million in cap room so they can still bring in another
player yeah I've lost track of their cap situation you have outlined it because there's there's so
many things going on that I don't understand anymore what what they're doing is basically they're
aggregating players under the cap and then turning them into a sign and trade for Dylan Brooks
and so it's basically like by doing that they found another seven and a half million under the table
I don't know why they gave eight million of it to Chuck Landell in particular
they also brought in Jeff Green by the way yeah he's he'll he'll be there is either a bench guy
or a veteran or both I mean a veteran obviously but like I think clearly he can still play he was
just in the rotation for a champion exactly two errors a great grind in Houston now with
Jeff Green and Dylan Brooks I I actually like going maps on Van Vley for two years is I think
that's a better use of cap space than like taking a bet at that contract for second ground pick right
so I don't really have a problem with that Brooks it's a lot of money there is some incentives
in there and I don't think it's like that far out from his from his value I didn't love them going
after Brooke Lopez actually I thought that was too much like when now versus like you're still
trying to build something for for for the out years more but I I think they're I think they're
a decent shape it's a bad luck when you have to throw two recent first round picks overboard and
pay two seconds and cash to do it just to get five million in cap rooms so you're referencing
Usman Gruba and Tata Washington were dumped to I believe the hawk so though again I've lost track of
where everyone in the rockets nexus of transactions is going and why and how yeah and then Josh
Christopher they also sent out and they're not getting anything back I don't think and I don't know
if he's gonna end up in Memphis or if he's gonna end up somewhere else he's the 16th guy right now
in Memphis exactly so I would bet on somewhere else for him I don't I don't know what in the
hell they're gonna be I would feel pretty good if I were the thunder that I have a strong draft
asset because the clearly that's sort of the blessing in curse of these picks right like you
trade this protected pick and then you feel this artificial pressure to get good so that you don't
cough up a great pick so at some point you had to get talent I don't I don't mind the acquisitions
at all I just don't know how good they're actually gonna be in the West but I love their I like
their young I don't love I like their young talent a lot despite my qualms out Kevin Porter Jr.
you mentioned the better use of cap space than second round picks to take on bad contracts
I don't want to talk much about them because I don't really mind what they did like I'm not
up in arms about it because they were just they're just so far away from anything I don't know that
they had any great free agency targets to go get but Detroit is kind of on the clock now as like
you have four centers you can call Marvin Bagley and Isaiah Stewart what you want they're basically
centers yeah you have two really good ball handling guards and Cade Cunningham and in Ivy you
just drafted the other Thompson Twin that's interesting you don't really have a lot of wings
like playable good wings maybe any traditional wings you got Bogdanovich on this declining and then
non guaranteed partially guaranteed rather deal in the next year I I'm just all I'm saying is
everyone was disappointed they didn't go get Cam Johnson I think they knew Brooklyn was gonna
match anything reasonable on Cam Johnson so they said okay let's just get a second a couple
seconds for our troubles with Joe Harris I'm just saying I want to see what's next I just want to
see where they go and what this team looks like and what Cade looks like after missing essentially
all of last season yeah because I think this is the last year they can be bad reasonably
if you look at the timeline of like impatience and front office 10 years and things like that
I think this this is the last year they can get away with being bad did you like what the
Caves did with a Struce on 464 Neang and Keraslavert coming back on two for 32 I think yeah I thought
that was really good they taglavert steal with Mitchell's Neang you know maybe a slight overpay
but it fits such a need for them they got so exposed in the playoffs and then Struce obviously
turning Chetty Osmond into Struce they could only cost him one second round pick to do it took
advantage of the hundreds of the of the wide and matching bands on salary in the new CBA and then
they they stayed below the tax on that so they basically used their float between the the cap and
the tax to turn Osmond into Max Struce I thought that was really good I loved their offseason
um they did not find the prototypical 3&D wing like Max Struce is a really good six five shooter
who knows how to defend with his feet and is okay like I don't feel good everyone's like well
they didn't get the guy to guard Jason Tatum and Kevin Durant and Jalen Brown and you know whoever
you want to pick among the Eastern Conference Elite teams okay well like those guys are not
easy to find I do wonder I just want to put this bug in everyone's ear I I do wonder how much
at least when they have the two big men on the floor together how much the answer to that question
of who guards Tatum who guards Durant who guards Brown who guards blah blah ends up being
Evan Mobley with Struce or whoever kind of hiding on the other non-threatening power forward
now it doesn't work if Jared Allen's on on the floor because you need a rim protector back there
but I think if I were the cabs coaching staff that's a role I would gradually start nudging Mobley
into a little bit and not just like on switches as as like a like let's see how you look as the
primary guy can I give you one other team I'm just interested about in hearing your take on okay
they haven't really done anything other than make their draft picks and absorb dead money
to make their draft pick or I'm really interested in where the thunder net out next season
in the Western Conference because everyone knows they have a ton of young talent they're getting
home grin back all that young talent will grow together the West is just stacked man I but I
love their team I just didn't really do anything so I don't have any thought I just want your thoughts
on the thunder before we go yeah I mean they took on a lot of money to move up two spots
in the draft right which is interesting because I thought if they were going to do something like
that they would do it with their picks but instead they did it with their cap room which was a
signal I guess that they really they were full and they they didn't really have any plans for
that cap room which is interesting on its own there I mean they're in that situation in methamphetamine
well they brought meat meatchitch over right they brought meatchitch yes that's true that's true
and they're in the situation that Boston was in a few years ago that methamphetamine right
now too where they have so many young guys on the roster that it's actually creating a crowd
and creates a little bit of a problem because they don't know which guys to bet on yet
in a lot of cases and so it's hard for them to add more players to the roster right now
and they're inevitably going to have to thin the herd out at some point
and I think just having one more year of really seeing what they have with some of these secondary
guys and you know is is Poku really a guy for them you know what is what is Trayman what is
Usman Deng you know what what are these other secondary guys I think they know it's going to be
Shay chat Jalen Williams right but I don't think they know yet who's who are going to be the
guys around then well the giddy one is really interesting because I he's really really good
but meatchitch is another ball handler point guard type and so we'll see how all of that fits
together John Hollinger what can we look for at the athletic this week what do you got well I
I wrote about my winners already I'm actually going to be writing about my losers coming up so
that'll be fun and then we'll see what else the lead gives us you know on these on these
trades if any of them happen or or I'll just be doing in-depth summer league analysis
I have a feeling that I'm going to be at a dinner in summer league maybe on beer too
and that's where the alert comes on the phone and the alert comes all know
Oh no John Hollinger the best in the business thank you for your time sir
you