McMenamin and Schwartz

And now the low welcome to the low post podcast Monday morning. I'm back from Vegas. Vegas is still in my bloodstream somewhere and it's time to take stock of the offseason for a few different teams and fittingly wearing a Philadelphia Phillies hat are Los Angeles Lakers insider Dave McMahon. How are you? I'm doing well, Zach. I can't believe we were completely ships passing in the night in Vegas. So we had one kind of drive by as I was checking in to Thomas and back through the security and you were headed the way out. I probably to meet your room or to a cab to some parts unknown to meet one of your many insider sources around the league. But I'm glad we can catch up now. Yeah, there were some late nights in Vegas. So misbehavior, but we are we are back. We are on the home front and we have to start. We're supposed to talk about the Lakers, but we have to start with Joel and bead. One of the rare instances in which a player makes a comment several days ago at the uninterrupted sports film festival being interviewed by Maverick Carter and Joel and bead said in response to a kind of a vague question about like what do we need to look for from Joel and bead going forward said I just want to win a championship whatever it takes. I don't know where that's going to be the whether it's in Philly or anywhere else. I just want to have a chance to accomplish that. Whoa. That's a record scratch. I don't know where that's going to be whether it's in Philly or anywhere else. And if you paying attention to paying attention rather that that should not surprise you. I've said for more than a year that this is a simmering situation in Philly and then the harden stalemate, which remains a stalemate on July 17th has only sort of I as soon as the harden news dropped from woege that he was opting in and had quote according to woege likely played his last game with the sixers. I said forget all these other names. There's only one name that matters. It's Joel and bead. What's going to happen Joel and bead? All the teams with draft picks, nicks are lurking and Joel tried to on Twitter kind of play this off his arm. I'm a troll. I'm just trolling. I don't buy it. He's too smart for that. He knows exactly what he's doing by saying that he knows the door that he's opening. And look Philly has has signed Pat Beverly and Mo Bomba and some centers and but they've lost George and they lost shake built and they're in this hardened limbo. I don't want to read too much into a comment, but the comment confirms what everyone on paying attention to the NBA landscape already knows already knew what what are your thoughts as if as a Philly Philly guy Dave. I mean, line up the assailant express. Get sent him up to New York. That's been what has been the murmurs. You said New York. We've all heard New York. We know the connection between Leon Rose and Joel and bead. We also know quite frankly that Delmory came into a situation that was largely set up before him and he will continue to craft that team in the fashion that he wants it to look like. And Joel and bead now that he has the stamp on his resume of being the reigning MVP, he should be applying pressure to make the urgent window exist in this moment for Philadelphia. And if it doesn't, this is what we see with stars in this game and that's a beauty of the NBA. If you are one of the singular name stars in the league, you can sway the championship odds of franchise. If they can acquire you, there's probably, you know, 10 names in the league like that. If not less, if not fewer, I got in trouble on Twitter about six or seven years ago when I did not include Stephen Curry into that list of names, worse fans don't let me forget it. I for one have not forgiven you Dave. I still haven't had no memory of that until you just said it now. Well, I know you were ashamed of yourself every day. Every day you walk around and feel shame. It's the worst take the worst take I've ever had. And it's the biggest blowback I ever got. But one thing though, it allowed me to open up like the the vortex into manipulation of the masses. It's had I purposely because I could have done the same exercise over over again, made an arbitrary list, speaking about something in the NBA, you know, touting the greatness of a group of players and purposely leaving a player off, the engagement goes through the roof. Now, at that time, I think I was downplaying in my mind the masterful career that Steph Curry was in the midst of my apologize stuff. I've spoken to him about it in person. Yeah, you can't apologize. You can't apologize enough, Dave. Every day, you should begin the day with an apology every single day. Get on Twitter and say, Hey, I'm sorry, every day. I'll tell you those as a as a true, you know, tie a bow on it, be a culpa. The NBA's NBA store had an auction. And they had the net available from his game for against the Celtics. Basically, to me, the pantheon, a pantheon gangster, Steph Curry, you know, in the finals, they got a boss. Did they lose that game? You know, who knows what happens in the finals? He shuts up the crowd. He's on Dremon. He goes nuts 40 plus points. And it was like a very reasonable bid price. Like, I think I bid, it was like for less than $200. So I was like, Oh, if I can win this thing, there's no one's paying attention to it. Next time I see him, like, here you go. I was buried for good. The last day I'm bidding it went up to like $5,000 to my dad. So I didn't quite, I couldn't quite afford that. But okay. All right. I digress. But let's talk about Joelle and bead. He's one of those guys that he's on that, that list. And you should recognize that value of where he is in his career right now. And he should use that to apply pressure to the sixers to make them a winner in the moment. And if they can't, I think he's well within his rights to make a statement like that. And I say that as, you know, growing up a proud fellow sports fan and certainly I care my brother is who lives and dies by the six years success or failures. But I also know how this business goes. And if Philly can't go done for Joelle, he deserves a chance where they can get it done and build a contender around him. And this hard thing is very important. Not just, you know, to keep that team intact and keep them, you know, very competitive. I think the sixers were, you know, top five or 16 of league last year. But hardened has also allowed Joelle and bead to be league leading score and the MVP in the two years he played with them. You know, whoever they replace hardened with that they do orchestrated trade, better sure make sure that that guy can play a style effectively to keep Joelle and be happy. Look, to be clear, you said, you know, Joelle as well within his rights to do this. This is about as vanilla of a very polite hint of pressure that a superstar could apply like this is in the scheme of things, basically nothing from a guy who by all accounts from what I've heard publicly and privately wants to win in Philly values the fact that he's got this bond with the team and the city. Part of the reason he has that bond with the city in particular is from the process until today, there's one thing that's stood to test of time, one, and it's Joelle and bead and everything around that is complete chaos to the point of absurd comedy. I mean, I don't need to list all of the things that have happened, almost happened, didn't happen, should have happened around Joelle and bead leading to this place of another guard in chaos, this time, Harden. And again, it's 515 Eastern on Monday, July 17th. As far as I know, the Harden situation remains a total stalemate. There's only really one team that he wants to go to. That team is the Clippers. Their level of engagement here to me is unclear slash not super enthusiastic. I don't know what to make of the possibility that Harden would ever go back to Philly. I continue to hear from people who would know that, you know, the bridge is burned, but that's what people who would know would say on July 17th with two months or whatever before training camp. I don't know how this is going to resolve itself. I know that Darryl Mori has no history of trading star players. And James Harden is still a star for spare parts that if Darryl Mori somehow deviated from that because he felt he had no other alternative, Joel and bead by all common sense would be like, wait, what just happened? We had Ben Simmons. Then we had James Harden. And now we have this. And I'm not even interested in going back and visiting, revisiting all the other Ben Simmons possibilities, you know, Bill Simmons, the other Simmons, the other B Simmons mentions Tyree's Halliburton a lot. There were Dejante Murray trades. All that stuff is water under the bridge to be. They made a good trade in acquiring James Harden. It worked. They had either the best or the second best team of the entire Joel and bead era this past season. The other one being 2019 with Jimmy Butler, who they inexplicably in retrospect, at least let go or traded away or gave into his demands or wouldn't pay him the full five-year amount, whatever it is, ends up in Miami. And again, they got to the second round and again, they lost. And I'll tell you this, Dave, when they won game five in Boston to go up three, two, and they spanked the Celtics. I thought, finally, they're going to get over the hump. And they ran smack into the hump and fell on their faces again in game seven. And, you know, Joel has three years in a player option for $59 million in 2027 left on his contract. I have no idea what's going to happen, but it's been an obvious thing brewing. You mentioned the Knicks. Everyone's mentioned the Knicks. The funniest possible subplot or resolution and one that actually makes a ton of sense is a Brooklyn Nets revenge trade for Joel and bead after whatever happened with Hardin ends up going from Brooklyn to Philly. They've got all the assets. They have a team that's actually kind of all the draft assets anyway. A team that's actually kind of like positioned to win with a centerpiece player. That would be the funniest thing. But, you know, this, this, look, man, it's July 17th. I have no idea what's going to happen, but this is, he's the MVP of the league. He's the MVP. And for the MVP to say anything like that is at least a little bit of an alarm bell. Absolutely. And again, it didn't catch you by surprise or me off guard because the idea of Joel and bead finishing his career in Philadelphia is not something that it seems like a lock by any search of the imagination before or after this comment he made the Maverick Carter on stage in Los Angeles. I think what this means is that, you know, Mo Bomba and Patrick Beverly as additions are enough. Tyrese Maxi, who's tremendous and assuming he continues to improve is not enough. Tobias Harris probably the biggest victim of a contract selling his reputation because he's still a really, really solid player, but he is viewed as not the guy worthy of that contract versus just looking at what he does, but still not enough. And this is a team right now, you know, I think ever since Jimmy Butler was not retained, hasn't gotten to that level as a group, even as Joel and bead has improved. And again, I'm sure all these guys who are in that elite conversation of the one name guys, the one name guys that matter, they watch the moves of the other one name guys that matter. And they want what the other guys have. And Darryl Mori, I've had several his peers over the years. I think I can name two, they might have been more than that say he's the best of us. He's the best GM in the league. He can create cap space scenarios that we can't even dream of. So if there's a guy who can figure this out, I think Darryl Mori, someone to a lot of fans should have some faith in, but the clock should be ticking. Yeah, you bring up Maxi and Beverly and Harris and whatever. Like, the Sixers will be a good team next year if Joel and bead is on the team with some combination of those players, maybe Hardin, maybe what they get for like, they're good. They're going to be good. It is interesting how the triangle three team trade involving Lillard and Hardin and the Clippers and the Sixers and the Blazers, you don't hear much noise about that anymore within league circles. Maybe there's just never really been anything to it. The last time we saw Joel and bead was game seven against the Celtics in Boston, five of 18, four turnovers, minus 28, getting roasted on the perimeter by Jason Tatum. And he just hasn't been the same guy in the playoffs ever throughout his career. A lot of that is health. And if you health and whatever else, I mean, if you go just through the years in the playoffs, 2018, they lose in the second round to the Celtics. That's his first playoff, but that's fine. He like was fine, kind of meh in that series, but like they were young and you know, lost four to one. Was it okay, series? First, first alarm bells of Ben Simmons in the playoffs and being like, whoa, what is what's happening? 2019 is the Butler year. You know, and he had a respiratory illness. He had stomach issues. He was dealing with knee soreness. He's always dealing with knee soreness. He missed a game in the first round. And in the Raptor series, 16 points, 12 points, 33 points, 11 points, 13 points, 17 points, 21 points in game seven on six of 18 shooting. But you know, famously, and I had to relook this up, they were plus 90 with him beat on the floor in that series. And minus 109 in 99 minutes with him beat on the bench, which is like pretty impossible to do. And again, he's dealing with just a litany of stuff. 2020 bubble, totally overmatched Simmons out, no shot swept by Boston. 2021 is the Ben Simmons past the Matisse style. They lose to the Hawkson game seven and beat is playing through a cartilage issue in a knee in that playoffs, missed a game in the first round against Washington, commits 16 turnovers combined in the last two games. His assist to turnover ratio for his career in the playoffs is 148 assists to 193 turnovers. That's bad. Just bad. His regular season numbers, 27, 11, 3 assists, 3 turnovers on 50% shooting, 54% on two playoffs, 24. So minus 3 points, 11 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 3.6 turnovers, 46% shooting, 28% on three. His free throws go down a little bit too. Just hasn't been the same guy. 2022, he has the buzzer beater against the Raptors to essentially clinch that series and all-time great shot. And then misses the first two games of the Miami series with a concussion member, Pascal Siacum knocked him in the head toward the end of the Raptor series. They go two and two with them beat in that series, oh and two without him. Game six, they lose. He's seven of 24 in game six. And this year also dealing with knee issues missed a game against Brooklyn, a game against Boston. You know, I don't, is it luck? Is it size? Is it going all out for the MVP and not pacing himself correctly to be ready for the playoffs? Is it just, it's three different playoffs. It's been knee stuff, knee soreness. But you know, it's not as if he's completely blameless for Philly just being unable to win a second round playoffs series. He's their best player. He has been their best player. It hasn't been closer than the Butler year. Really, I don't think. Maybe hard and no, it wasn't close this year, other than those first two games. But it's just, it's a lot of everything in Philly. It's just a lot of everything. And I don't know, man. I don't know. But as you laid that out, because I mean, you do literally laid it out very cut and dried. And I mean, man is that this is turnover number telling about how effective he's or lack of effectiveness he's had in the postseason versus regular season. But then is that hypothesis? Will you just be running from your problems, Joelle? And you need to be better. You almost went, you almost went run from the grind. You almost, you almost, a hashtag run from the grind. Or the solution that you just get a little bit better. And it's really, really, really, really hard to win a ring in the league. And you need a lot of luck. And you need a lot of work. And you need a lot of camaraderie. And are you doing absolutely everything you can to maximize the areas where you can control? Obviously, luck, you know, injuries and stuff. Sometimes out of your control. I don't know. And you know, I do think though, this is something we need to be talking about because we have spent as folks who come to the league, the better part of the last month, having the conversation about Dame Lillard as being, you know, the biggest piece that's out there that can affect how the chase to the championship looks next year. But, you know, even with everything you just said, Joelle and B is going to affect winning far more in my opinion, wherever he goes, if he does go somewhere, then Dame Lillard would. Well, I don't, I mean, that's a debate for another day. And to be clear, like, I don't think there's any immediacy to any of this. Like, I, I, I think the Sixers have this season at least with them beat. But that could change on a dime. Okay, your actual beat is a Los Angeles Lakers. And I thought it would be fun to talk about them because there are winners on the free agency winners and losers columns and podcasts all over the place. Now, everything's mostly done. And, and when we name them winners, just kind of like list the names, like, oh, Gabe Vincent, Torian Prince, Austin Reeves comes back on a great deal. They drafted, you know, a couple of guys that may contribute, they get Cam Reddish, say, blah, blah, let's talk about the actual team. Like, how good is this team going to be? What do they look like on paper? And where do they go from here? D'Angelo Russell brought back, Hachimura brought back. I think this team's going to be really good. I think what they did in the last 30, 40 games of the season and in the playoffs was, was, was pretty legit. And the single biggest reason why I was Austin Reeves Austin Reeves became, if not quite a certified member of a certifiable big three, almost. And one of the stats of the season for the Lakers is Reeves LeBron Davis regular season plus 14 and a half points per 100 possessions, plus 149 total points in 390 minutes, 390. They played more minutes together in the playoffs as a trio than they did in the regular season. So the single biggest reason, the single biggest reason for optimism that the Lakers have something going with this continuity with this group with this style of play is those three guys together are really, really good. And they have only started to scratch the surface of what they can do together. Um, I will just open the floor to you. What interests you about this team going into the season? If you are optimistic that they can compete with Denver and Phoenix and Golden State and Sacramento and Memphis and whoever else you want to put toward the top of an absolutely loaded Western conference with LeBron approaching 39 years old. Anthony Davis, sometimes injured, sometimes healthy, sometimes injured again. Um, what is your reason for optimism? What's interesting to you? Well, I am optimistic about this group. Uh, about to start with a conversation that I've had with a couple folks, um, you know, one person attached to the team. Uh, there's long time people in the league who find there to be some merit and legitimacy to this, this thought process is the alchemy of last year's group when they went in that 24 game stretch 18 and 6 prior to getting swept in the Western conference final. You had this intense shared purpose of not only okay, so you have the chance to make the play entornment. So that was one level of pressure. Then for, uh, basically half of the rotation in Austin Rees and the Angelo Russell and Rui Hachimura, it's play well enough to justify getting a big payday this summer. There's another big ingredient to what the group was going through. Then you have a Darwin ham, uh, who I don't think is motivation, will ever waver knowing him for as long as I know him, but again, him looking to make up for how he stumbled out of the gates, uh, to begin his first coaching job in the league, so not to intend. And LeBron, who at AllStarbreak in Salt Lake City said, this is the most important stretch of my career coming up. And all of most immediately has to go out of the lineup, uh, for 13 games with a foot injury. And so when he gets back, he is trying to push the pedal to the metal, um, for the duration and CS party can take them. So all those elements were working in their favor right up until they met the best team in the league. And even then, you know, again, it's a sweep is a sweep. I'm not trying to, uh, change history here, but it was a very competitive series against the Denver Nugget. You take away a lot of those ingredients and it's a group, you know, playing even from the start out of the gates and it's a bunch of young players who have now been paid. Um, can they capture that kind of, uh, thrust and that intensity that was such a big part of their success? Um, I think it's possible, but that element, I don't think should be overlooked when we look back at what they were able to accomplish last year. You just gave them what Tim McMahon has coined the bronze broom. I think award for the competitive sweep. I like that from Tim McMahon, how do you partner? Um, strikes me that we probably should have led with the quote unquote news that LeBron is not retiring. I think that happened over the weekend at the SPs. Um, I got bad, bad formatting by me should have been the top of the podcast LeBron, arguably the greatest player in the world, not retiring after hinting that he had a lot to think about. No one really thought retirement was a real possibility, but I guess now we can formally say LeBron James will be returning for the last guaranteed season on his current Los Angeles Lakers contract. Yeah, I mean, I think the series against Denver ended on Monday. I spoke to LeBron on the way out of the arena and he told me that you'd be contemplating retirement. But the end of that conversation, that brief conversation we had was, well, I'm still better than 90 or 95% of the league right now. So it didn't sound like a guy was going to retire than I reported four days later, corned a source close to LeBron that he would be fulfilling his contract for the upcoming season. So yeah, not a shock whatsoever. I thought it was interesting, though, just to hear the mindset. He sounds like someone was pretty refreshed and is looking forward to the challenge already with about two months to go versus the last two seasons. It was a lot. And again, anyone can say, and I would may agree if you or even join the chorus, that when it's a lot, LeBron brings a lot on himself, too, just by who he is. And sometimes intentionally, he's a guy who says he is most comfortable being uncomfortable. And I think he sometimes introduces situations to the teams that are on to test them. And sometimes just to, so he doesn't get bored throughout the course of his season. But listen, I mean, I know modern sport science is different than it was for players in decades past in the league. And I know the amount of compensation these guys are paid that they can afford to invest in their bodies the way that LeBron has. But I mean, you look at the guys who have played in year 21. I think there's been five guys prior to him. He's going to be number six. And it's dark and it's Kevin Willis and it's Robert Parrish and it's Vince Carter. I guess I'm forgetting a name here. They average like eight points per game. LeBron, assume that the foot heals the right way. And Rob Polika said as much that he's heard all good things about that being something you can put behind them going into next year. Amy's going to average 20 plus. You're going to average, you know, five, five and five, if not better numbers, like he always does. And he will be the, you know, many nights, the best player and many other nights, the second best player after Anthony Davis on a team is going to be 10 for a title. And we are so, I guess, numb to what he accomplishes that the numbers don't speak for themselves sometimes because I guess sometimes distance makes the heart grow fonder and he doesn't allow a slot distance. LeBron James stays in the light guys as much as possible. But he's going to continue to be one of the guys that matters. And so long, the Lakers can, you know, have some injury luck on their side and get into the playoffs, you know, fist seeing the West or better. They're going to have a real shot to make a run just like they did this past year. Who's more comfortable being uncomfortable? Darryl Mori or LeBron James? Darryl Mori, how many times we heard, oh, Darryl Mori loves being uncomfortable. I'd like being comfortable. I don't want to be uncomfortable. I don't like being uncomfortable on planes. I don't like being, you know, uncomfortable. I like being comfortable. I just want to be comfortable. I want everything to be fine. I don't like this idea of being uncomfortable. You have a compartmentalized feeling for that because of the way you treat your work, like you put it in a long hours. That's not comfortable because you have a standard of what you want to build. So that's, you know, I think always seeing, seeing comfort is, that's not the Zacklow I know. All right. Fair enough. By the way, you mentioned the money. This is just a total aside and a conversation I had with that just came up organically quite a bit in Vegas. And just the salaries that the players are making and that they can afford to invest like LeBron does, you know, Zion was talking about this too. We are, I think people are starting to like, realize, I don't want to say sticker shock, but as the cap goes up, like we're not far from a guy's making $70 million a year, not even that far. At some point, at some point in our lives covering the league, there will be a $100 million per year player. Damien Loward is already on the books for 2027 at 63.3 million. And I always go back to something. My dad told me when I was little sports fans, Zach, like, and it started to be a thing like, oh my god, a player makes a million dollars. Player makes $5 million. It's like, he told me back then, Zach, here's this big pool of money in sports. Who do you want to get it? The guys you like watching play sports or these like rich billionaire dudes, you don't even know. Like that's the choice. And I think a lot of fans can do do that calculus in their head of like, okay, so so and so is making $80 million a year. That's crazy. But we know that there's this pool of money. They're dividing it this way. But I do think players, agents, unions, team executives are kind of just like bracing for the optics of that and how that's going to as the disparity between what regular people make and what the best players make just continues to widen and widen and widen. What does that mean for the NBA? I haven't really thought about that. I hadn't really thought about it because I just it's 51% of BRI divided by this 35% of the cap. Like it's just sort of a mechanical part of my life. But I live it every day. I'm not a fan who wakes up one day and is like, wait, this dude makes $87 million this year. It is going to be like almost strange in a way. Adrian, would you ask you reported on some of the details of Janet Brown's potential Supermax extension with Boston. And it will reach north of 70 million. Should it come to agreement at the numbers that it could land upon. And I saw that 70 million number ripple throughout social media that already grabbed people's attention. When it's 82 and above, it's going to be only more pronounced. And it will come down to the idea in my opinion that a player missing a regular season game and getting paid a million dollars to do so when he's quote unquote, healthy will be seen as highway robbery. And I think a couple things need to be adjusted here in the sport. So that does not turn off potential consumers and fans and viewers and readers and listeners and everything else that people come to be a part of the NBA world as one. And I'm still just already trying to do this. You incentivize the regular season. So that the regular season matters. And whether that be you need to play in 68 games or more or whether 65 games or more to qualify for postseason awards, whether that be you want to participate in the in season tournament because there's a half a million dollar cash prize waiting for the team. It wins it at the end per player. These are things that are put into place in order to hopefully get players to treat the regular season with more pride. And then recognize that you are going to be a good steward of what it means to be an NBA player and appreciate those fans who spend their hard work hard earned money to go see you play by playing regular season games. And then the second part would be and this is I don't know if this will ever de-bride itself so long as we talk about the sport the way we talk about it. But the finals MVP trophy is named after Bill Russell 111 rings the universally kind of heralded guy as the goat is Michael Jordan who was six for six and the NBA finals winning six ring. There's so much emphasis on having your team and you know your best players ready to go at their top form for the postseason that you'll sacrifice regular season period in order to get there and you'll take whatever you know backlash that may come if you believe that you are following a track that you better position to hoist the Lago Bryant trophy in June. Like that is going to remain a rock and a hard place as player salaries escalate and I don't know what do we want like what what a TV networks want right. Theoretically you know when you get the the big numbers in the playoffs you know on television viewership that's where the next TV contract spikes anyway so does anyone really really really want the regular season to be treated like balls of the wall. Well and so I don't want to get too far into this but part of this is like part of the deal you you you make when you sign a contract is that you play and we're going to maybe see some scenarios and we already have with Ben Simmons of of guys not playing and that's going to be a big issue going forward it's like I keep saying it with game like part of the deal you made when you sign the extension is you don't get to dictate everything I still think he ends up in Miami he's totally within his rights to have his agents try to get him to Miami that's all part of the game but you are not free and clear do whatever the heck you want because you sign the contract. And also we in the media are not just like passive recipients and bystanders and all this like it's on us to like hashtag rings with the Z like the media is partly at fault for that if we are on TV segments in three years where the host is like hundred million dollars so and so is not worth that it's incumbent on us even if it's boring to be like yo okay here's the salary cap here's why this guy's making this amount of money this is just what it is anyway lakers hard pivot back to the lakers if all this player movement in drama and lillard and blah blah blah Anthony Davis is eligible for an extension in August not much murmuring about that maybe because everyone just kind of assumes the parties will agreed to a deal what should we be looking for there yeah so come August 4th 80s eligible for a extension of three years 167 million dollars he has a one plus one deal currently right now he's under contract for next season this player option the following year listen I asked Rob link about it on the record he cited the cba and didn't want to begin negotiations before they're officially allowed even though it's his own player I feel like the league is generally like okay about that type of stuff but if you want to follow the law that's fine uh Anthony Davis in Rob as Rob's estimation is someone that he has represented the lakers really well as he cited how he played through his foot injury last year as was a major reason why they won a championship in 2020 and he wants to continue to have Anthony Davis a laker so no alarm bells went off and then of course you circle back with people who know not when there's the microphone and camera in their face and you know I am not too concerned about how this thing plays out whether the maximum out of years the maximum out of numbers are reached that remains to be seen that will be figured out between Rich Paul and Rob Polink and Genie Bus and the like but where things stand right now I expect some sort of agreement to be reached and a lot of it is one recognizing that Anthony Davis as a trade ship there's no way you can replicate the value of what he brings to the court combined with Lebron James when he's healthy just you won't it's absolutely impossible you also recognize that Lebron turned 39 years old entering year 21 as a limited window uh so then to try to coalesce with a new group if you were to find this beautiful trade Anthony Davis that's that's folly you could be wasting what's left of Lebron and then beyond that listen we know the business of this league no extension offered what do you do you apply pressure the other way and say I want out so I'm I'm fairly competent that uh Anthony Davis will be coming into training camp and extended deal I love Anthony Davis was the best defensive player of the playoffs in the entire NBA um bam out of bio maybe had an argument too but I think to go back to let's just let's assume all is copacetic on the AD front to go back to what this team is and what it has to be to compete with the nuggets who lost Bruce Brown I'm going to talk more about that with Mike Schwartz shortly to compete with the sons who are loaded or loaded up at least and finagled some picks over the weekend with some trades that we'll talk about um as long as Anthony Davis is playing and healthy I think the Lakers are going to be a good defensive team they were a great defensive team last year we'll see if they can replicate great um they they got a little lucky with opponent three point shooting but they are rock solid rebounding team rock solid rim protection they don't foul uh there's a lot of stuff that they nailed defensively and AD is just a monster Reeves is a solid defensive player and LeBron people kind of focus on effort level and how he slowed down and all that he's still six nine and huge and people are scared of him and he's always in the right place at the right time I actually still think he's probably a slight net plus defensively not on the days when he's just sort of like all right it's a back-to-back I got a coast here like what it actually matters I think he's still a net plus defensively we know those three dudes are going to start they're going to play a ton of minutes together that's a solid defensive trio if the other two starters are DeAngelo Russell and Rui Hachimura and if I had to put money on it now I would put money on that as the Lakers opening night starting five you know Delo is a liability on defense and Rui's okay I thought Rui made strides last year in every kind of area of his game toughness defense rebounding all of it um I still think that that lineup will be a good defensive lineup that obviously moves Vanderbilt into a bench roll instead of like a starting five defensive stopper roll you could argue that Gabe Vincent should start a point guard over DeAngelo Russell I don't I I mean there's not that much of a gap in their salaries there I mean I guess seven million is a decent gap but you know Delo is kind of has the incumbency factor going for them but I I think defensively this team's going to be solid the question I have which is bizarre to ask is on the other end of the floor but before we get there what's your best prediction for their starting five at opening night regular season or do you care does this even matter no I mean I care because it is an indication of what direction I'm going out I will say this last year Darwin Ham said I'm the type of coach I like to find a five and go with it and they had something like 36 different starting lineup throughout the year now a lot of that was out of Darwin's control and obviously they made major trades leading up to the trade deadline so that factor did too as well but my point being and sharing that it's not the dunk on Darwin it's to say that even if a coach has that kind of view of how things should be done a lot of things happen over the course of a season so any like a fan that sees one lineup for the first game of the preseason or even opening night recognize that there'll be many permutations here but I'm not so sure about Rui starting over Vando I think it really depends nor am I to nor am I to be clear I'm just I'm just being like best guess that's it right I think it depends on how much AD gets his wish here and and this is I think another sign of why I'm confident about both sides coming to an agreement on extension is you know Anthony Davis has been pounding the drum members since you're out in LA that he doesn't like to max out his minutes at the five the body takes a beating he likes having a big next to him for room protection purposes etc etc etc they won the championship with big bodies and Javille McGee and Dwight Howard the team not only listened to him in the acquisition of Jackson Hayes but made sure it was known that they listened to him in the comments made by Darwin Ham and Rob Polica to various reporters and various outlets myself included that this was wanting to replicate kind of the lineup they had in 2020 in order to appease and Anthony Davis to make him feel good so there is a chance that with you know they're reupped committal to him with the extension of summer it includes hey I want to see that other line up again so you could very well see Jackson Hayes AD and then I think if you go there you know it's it's Austin at the three Lebron and or Lebron at three I guess Austin at two and probably Delo but it gave Vincent we'll get a chance at some point this year and they got really good depth and if someone like a max Christy can break through he's gonna get shot there's there's a wild card in terms of their growth that's unexpected if Cam Reddish can kind of do a little bit of what we saw with say Malik Monk when he came to the lake there's a couple years ago off with Charlotte and hadn't quite lived up to the promise of his talent and they got their hands on him and all of a sudden he looks like the guy who was so highly talented coming out of Kentucky in this case Reddish coming out of Duke there's a chance there or just like the marginal upgrades some like Twain Green being marginally better than Troy Brown Jr who got a ton of minutes for the Lakers last year like there's all sorts of ways that they got better so long as we don't see a drop off from Lebron and AD stays on the court so you know again I'll go with it would not shock me if we saw Jackson Hayes as a starting center to open up the season to see how that looks wow and then you do but you know that doesn't mean that you're not going to see Anthony Davis playing center in the fourth quarter you know that's that's winning time I mean Jackson Hayes has shown glimpses as a switch defender um I just can I I just don't know I don't want that I'm I'm going I don't know what if AD wants it does act what if AD wants it you know that's cool he can keep beating the drum I want to like do what the heavy metal bands do after the concert and just like destroy the drum and throw it on the floor and smash it and never see it again um what's the last heavy metal concert you've been through that you don't know and I do no no it's been a while it's been a while uh yeah I sure um why not sign Tristan Thompson play Jackson Hayes at the three and and you know maybe maybe is there any other centers we can sign anyway but the chips are down AD's playing the five and maybe you can finagle the matchups so vandered like the how they had Rui guarding yoke etch and so AD can be so he doesn't have to take the banging and he can be a rover like they're they're ways to do it um you mentioned Torian prince I like the idea of like a point Reeves line up if you want size and defense like Reeves Prince LeBron Rui AD I kind of like that kind of group I think Torian Prince would be a good a good player for the team but like look here's the deal to Lakers they were 15th and offense after the rust trade so they really made their bones on defense they were top three defense they were 19th and half court offense for the regular season 12th and half court offense for the playoffs out of you know 16 18 teams if you count the play in teams whatever it is um and if you look at look now this is this is a hard to know how much it is to chalk up to the foot injury but LeBron's pick and roll volume reached career low levels by far in the playoffs total pick and rolls this is according to second spectrum and the LeBron AD pick and roll despite AD playing huge minutes at the five despite Vanderbilt kind of fading out the starting lineup and then out of the rotation to the fringes of the rotation as a Denver series war on opening up the court the LeBron AD pick and roll just wasn't enough of a thing they only ran 10 per 100 possessions in the playoffs which is extremely extremely low and it was not effective when they ran it and LeBron's gonna be 39 and obviously this roster with Russell and Vincent and Reeves is designed at least in the regular season to siphon a lot of the ball handling not a lot but some of the ball handling more than ever in LeBron's career away from LeBron but to me that's the biggest question I think this team's going to be a very good defensive team their offense just wasn't good enough quite good enough to be elite elite elite in terms of where they were on the championship pecking order I think they need to get a little bit better offensively and I think they have the juice to do it like they've got some shooting they've got more ball handling they signed some good offensive players around LeBron and AD and and again to me Reeves all this noise the most important thing that happened in them is Austin Reeves and if he has another level to hit and I believe you probably saw Darvin you may have written about it Darvin him proclaimed that he thinks he's gonna make an all-star team at some point in his career maybe it's just as simple as like does Reeves have another leap in him but that the question to me is just can they squeeze enough offense out of the group because I'm confident in the defense and it might have been in my story I think about the all-star proclamation from Darvin Ham so yeah I mean listen we'll see if Austin Reeves gets the USA oomph you know 25 year old being part of USA basketball that's voted quite well for other players in the league over the last 10 years that's USA basketball cleaned up its act last 20 years almost at this point and certainly everyone from the analytics folks who work the lakers down through the front office and the coaching staff they recognize having a ball and Austin Reeves hands is a great thing for this team you know Rob Lincoln told me during the playoffs that part of their analysis ahead of making their trades at the trade deadline and parting ways with Russell Westbrook was seeing how effective that that Austin Reeves was with the ball in his hands now I'll be in part limited opportunities compared to post trade deadline but they thought that was enough of the sample size to encourage them to you know pull the bandaid off on Westbrook and thrust him into that role and he's a tremendous decision maker he gets to the free throw line and that that's such a trickle of down effect helping a team you get into a team's bench because they have to take a guy out of line up when they get two or three fouls and then you sometimes have a talent gap in the players you're going up against and certainly when you have a 39 year old as one of your best players it gives a couple extra seconds to catch your breath over the course of a game etc etc etc and he's someone who you know there's a lot of guys who play hard in a league but when he plays hard he's animated about it and there seems to be some sort of you know it's infectious with this Lakers group the way he approaches a game so he is out of the big three but he is vital to this team's success now but we have to recognize that you know he had hamstring and shoulder stuff the last two years where he missed chunks of time now the Lakers addressed their depth I don't think they would you know fall into the tank if Osiris had injury coming up this year but that's I think the next challenge for him is to continue to work on his body you know I've had people in the organization tell me like we just got to get them on the Caruso plan and you saw what Alex Caruso went in the time he was with the Lakers to the time he went to the Bulls his body completely transformed and Osiris certainly has the work ethic and the level of the game to do so I do think there's there's more levels for his game to reach oh yeah he's still super young he's confident he's good with the ball ranging like he'll get better to me Reeves LeBron Davis we know that's those are the three most support players on the team it's it's too early to really project too too much but I will say like all the continuity talk all this like Lakers winners in free agency this goes for any team there's a there's a tendency I think to to say okay July 17th the Lakers have their team like all of these contracts for leave those three guys aside Reeves LeBron and AD all these other contracts are tradable there's no and that's not an accident there's no guarantee that this is the team on whatever the day after the trade deadline is in February and that could be a small change or it could be a big change but those contracts being where they are in terms of length and money is not an accident and one should not assume that this is the team and the Lakers are set and this is how it's going to go they still have the 2029 first round pick they still have the 2030 first round pick and you use one of those two we'll see if you know Jell-Hood Shapinoe is a player that they use on the court for themselves or someone that some other team out there would have interest in they still have about a million and a half left over the mid-level exception from the gave instant deal that they'll be able to use potentially the buyout market in March there are ways for them to get better than again you know they are there's some amenable contracts you know a former All-Star and Daniel Russell if he looks more like you did in the Denver series than he did the rest of the time he was a Laker that's not too hard a number to swallow that you could attach a draft pick to or second round or whatever it may be in order to to find another 20 million dollar player out there so they are both accomplished I mean they've accomplished a lot it's they're trying to spread the needle between winnow without without sacrificing all your future while remaining nimble should something come up and that's what they are right now and it's a good place to be yeah they did a nice job did a nice job where they fall in the championship picking order I'll talk a little bit about now with Mike Schwartz as we hit the sons Dave McMeneman thank you sir enjoy LA hopefully you get a little downtime soon and you are covered from Las Vegas Dave McMeneman everybody is that you're going to be comfortable somewhere oh god I need to be thanks Dave all right let's switch gears and talk about another western conference contender the Phoenix Suns wheeling and dealing made another trade over the weekend yet another pick swap I think the Suns are on a mission to concoct a 30 team pick swap where there's one pick and every team gets a shot at it one to 30 they have now bifurcated all four pick swaps that they traded the wizards in the Bradley Beale mega deal campaign is gone six second round picks have come in the door in two separate trades in which they've traded pick swap rights and boy oh boy Mike Schwartz ESPN research guru lifelong Suns fan it feels like yesterday we were talking about the feel good Phoenix Suns making the 2021 finals I let you do the intro to the podcast it was Chris Paul chasing the first ring with this rest of this sort of homegrown feel good plucky younger team and with the trade of camera and paint at the San Antonio Spurs which the Suns won't want to frame this way it is a salary dump they dumped campaign salary the second round pick that is coming back to them is more or less a fake second round pick that they're almost certainly will not get the only two players left from that team that is two years old are devon booker and deandre and mr. Schwartz how are you i'm doing great and you know if if you don't have any assets you've got to materialize them so it's kind of interesting that they were able to basically get six second round picks out of thin air which should be useful as the team looks to make more moves they got a six at point five million dollar trade exception in the campaign trade they have a five million trade exception a million dollar trade exception from the Dario shards trade at last year's trade deadline and now they have some stuff to include in in those trades they here are the seconds they have received in these two trades one of them was with Memphis working two pick swaps into their twenty twenty four first round pick that day old Washington and their twenty thirty first round pick day old Washington so Phoenix essentially goes last in line on a three team pick swap of wizards grizzlies sons they got a grizzlies 28 in twenty nine seconds and a pelicans twenty five second and then in these it or lando trade by the way bowl bowl yeah anyway in the Orlando trade over the weekend where they bifurcated their twenty twenty six first round pick with a swap that goes Washington or land of Phoenix they got the nuggets twenty twenty four second round pick which stinks the worst of twenty twenty six seconds of Detroit or land of Milwaukee and TBD and Boston's twenty twenty eight second only if it is forty six to sixty so we are not talking about golden ticket second round picks they couldn't end up being number thirty one or thirty two or thirty three we're talking about a bunch of poop second round picks but if you can if you can jeal enough poop together you can make something out of it and that's what the sons are hoping for and bowl bowl and with that they have fifteen guys on their roster ish wainwright is non guaranteed I believe Jordan Goodwin is also non guaranteed he will be on the team next year my point being this campaign trade combined with the trade exceptions at all the second round picks is all designed to if we can get a decent player at the trade deadline for a two three four five seconds we're going to get him Mike Schwartz I think that there's an air of skepticism around the phoenix sons the twenty three twenty four phoenix sons for a number of reasons they have now ended their last three seasons losing four straight finals games and then twice in a row getting blowing out on their home court in embarrassing game six losses there is the lingering image of a bunch of overmatched role players missing open threes against the Denver nuggets that the nuggets were just thrilled that they were all taking there is the lingering distaste of the dehydrate and money Williams relationship and the knowledge that yes the sons investigated the Andreate and trades the skepticism that that situation is really salvageable despite Frank Vogel's endless optimism about everything and I also just think that that and then the notion that there's just too much overlapping skill sets between Biel and Booker and Biel is going to take away from what Booker does best we really want to have the ball and Biel's hands all the time and just sort of like we haven't seen Brad Biel in a big game in like over half a decade the the sense that he's kind of been putting up empty calories numbers in Washington all of this is combined to kind of create this air of its Denver and then it's just everybody else and yeah maybe Phoenix is at the top of everybody else but it's really everybody else and I'm here to tell you Mike Schwartz I think the sons are being underrated I think this team is going to be awesome I love what they did with their minimum deals and I would put them a top that pile of everyone else above the Lakers above the Warriors above the Clippers not infatically but I would do it and I think they're going to be better than people think what say you yeah I completely agree with that I think the big thing that people talk about is the overlapping skill sets with the three stars Katie Booker and Brad Biel but I look at it a little bit differently I think that when Katie came we got a much better version of Devon Booker particularly as a playmaker he went up to seven assists a game from about five then in the playoffs he stayed at seven assists a game his scoring was out of this world obviously putting up around over 30 points per game in the playoffs and he was getting some of the easiest shots that I've seen him get especially in the regular season obviously in the playoffs they were trapping the hell out of them and making them take really tough shots but during that eight no run during the regular season remember this team has not lost a regular season game with Kevin Durant and the lineup yet those two were really unstoppable and that was without a third player like Bradley Biel who I think during my previous podcast visits it feels like every time we talk about how the suns don't get to the free throw line enough they don't get enough rim pressure now you had Brad Biel who is one of the better guys in the league at that I think that yes it's it's three scores like I understand why people would be worried about them being duplicative but I see that more as enhancing I mean we live in a positionless basketball world right we've been talking about that for years now I don't think it matters that there's not really a true point guard and that there's some overlap on the scoring I think these guys are good enough all around players that it's really gonna work yeah the lack of a point guard on paper is interesting I don't think the sun's care yeah they view booker and then Biel and then Durant probably in that order as their point guards it worries me a little bit that they don't have like an a plus passer anywhere on the team but but not but not that much and you know I think the overlapping skill sets if you're gonna simplify it really boils down to this we saw in that Denver series the nuggets dropped back against Chris Paul picking roles before Chris got hurt and they did that very intentionally to bait Chris into dominating the ball and shooting a lot along twos precisely so that booker and Durant were not as involved in the offenses perhaps the nuggets feared them to be yeah and I think the fear with Biel that the skeptics have is well first of all he's gonna he's probably gonna be the smallest guy in their starting five I'm guessing Kate of Bates D. up will be the missing fifth starter or it could be a kogi it could be any number of people but let's pencil in Bates D. up who six eight or six nine I think he'll have Biel will have point guards on him so they have to have the smallest defender on him and I think the sort of fear is he will become the de facto number one ball handler too often and therefore take away from what booker and Durant do best rendering booker like a secondary ball handler and then Durant just like a running around doing stuff that will happen at times but I am not actually worried about that I think that's a a problem that the players and the coaches can work out amongst themselves and before we dig into the specifics of it I think one of the things that excites me about the roster is the versatility of all three of the main guys the size that they will be able to play with they don't seem like a big team but that starting lineup is six four six five six eight six eleven seven foot and part of the solution I think will be the versatility mixing up who does what and where and also the speed with which they operate both in transition and we saw as soon as Chris got hurt they amped up the pace and I think the half court things will flow faster and with a little bit more variety and what will come out in the wash I think is a top three offense in the NBA I would be very surprised if this team was not one of the very very best offenses of in the NBA if not the best assuming health as always well look I mean that's yeah assuming health I understand Biel has missed a lot of games he's still not as big a health risk is Chris Paul who gets hurt in the playoffs literally every single year almost yeah but what do you what do you I mean offensively do you have any I mean the depth sure are we counting on debates deops and the Eric Gordon's who's I'm happy to count on Eric Gordon but Josh a Kogi you don't want to nabi drew you banks like are we counting on those guys for real minutes sure every team is counting on guys like that for real minutes when push comes to shove they're going to have two of Biel Booker and Durant on the floor all the time in the games that matter so offensively like we can talk about how it might look stylistically but I don't have any worries that what's going to come out is not going to be like a top three offense yeah and I think the the biggest addition of the summer was Eric Gordon because he gives them that bonafide floor spacer not just from the three point line but from way beyond the three point line to 30 feet he's one of the league leaders and 30 foot shots every year and I think if you put the sons big four with Deandre Aiden we haven't really talked about too much yet as the the role man with the three stars and then Eric Gordon and which I think should be their closing lineup pending what you need defensively I just don't see how you defend that because you kind of need to be helping off that fifth player as we saw Denver do throughout the playoffs and if it's Eric Gordon drilling threes from way beyond the line that's just too much spacing for how good the three stars are all three of the stars are very good at coming off screens off the ball at a high speed catching the ball and going right into a pick and roll and that's not something that Chris at his age in his size was really able to do and that's kind of what I mean by versatility you can throw the puzzle pieces around any way you want you can run a booker Aiden high screen where Aiden rolls down and sets a pin down for Biel coming off the left wing and he catches the ball on the move and one of the things I looked up Biel actually sets a lot of ball screens he's set for a star guard he set like seven per hundred possessions last year in Washington which was a career high and if he's going to have the littlest defender on him I want to see Booker Biel Durant Biel inverted pick and rolls he said he said ball screens for poor Zingas last year here and there and you can get switches out of that and both Durant and Booker can play bully ball another thing Biel likes to do is set a ball screen for anybody and then have Aiden kind of on the other side of that ball screen for Biel to flare around catch the ball on the move and go you can just build infinite combinations out of this with stuff happening on both sides of the floor with Aiden is kind of a screening folkroom insured DA may not be thrilled to be described as screening folkroom sorry buddy these other three dudes are on your team all of this is a long way of saying because of Biel's ability as a screen center and if you watch so I watched a bunch of his screens today he's really good at actually screening slipping toward the foul line in that dream on spot he's nowhere near dream on as a playmaker let me be clear and making plays from there like I'm just not really worried about I don't think they're going to fall into a trap of oh Brad Biel is doing too much at the expense of Devon Booker and Kevin Durant yeah I agree I'm not worried about that at all I think you're going to have a dual ball handler attack like you said Booker first Biel second Katie third and I think there's going to be enough playmaking that you don't really need a traditional playmaker and with with all the size and shooting I agree completely it's going to be a top three offense now defense is where it gets interesting and that's why you hire Frank Vogel who's basically been a top five defense more often than not he's been I think a top three defense like five times in his career and I think it's it's kind of like okay these guys you just roll out the ball these guys are going to be a top three offense now Vogel what can you do with the defense so and that's where Aiton becomes the most important figure absolutely by the end of last season he was completely out of sorts defensively yeah he had reverted back to making some mistakes of timing and positioning that he was making as a rookie when it was like is that a blooper like did he not understand what was happening there abandoning the ball way too early not helping on the ball at all just stuff that left you thinking like is he just completely checked out of the game checked out of the team checked out of the franchise and he might have been and it got to the point where like Jack Landale was just a better option than Deandre Aiton and the sons are not going to be able to win the West and win the championship if at any point in the playoffs for multiple games at a time drew you banks or Chamezhi met to is a or or Durant at center which is I think a look they may try here and there when they will try here and there becomes a better option than Deandre Aiton they're going to need his size and rebounding and defense and look he knows they looked at trading him he we'd all know that the relationship really fell apart and now they all have to come back and repair it and I think Frank Vogel is like it's not smoke this dude loves coaching centers he made Roy Hibber helped make Roy Hibber into a thing and their road map to a good defense to me is tons of switching one to four and Deandre Aiton on the back line defending in different ways depending on who the opponent is and if that one piece isn't there and falls away I don't know that they're going to be able to build like a top 12 to 13 defense yeah I agree and particularly in the playoffs against Nikolayokits it was weird just especially he looked back two years ago when the sons did make the run to the finals he was one of the key parts he was incredibly engaged he was putting up all time numbers of shooting efficiency combined with some pretty solid defense going through Anthony Davis obviously Yochitch when two years ago of course Denver had Jamal Murray injured and that wasn't quite this Denver team but he did a nice job on Yochitch straight up and then of course in the in the finals he was the only guy who had a prayer of slowing down Yannis obviously he didn't all the time they need that engaged high motor Aiton and obviously the dude was drafted in 2018 so we've we've seen a lot of him motors kind of an interesting thing because he's just a guy who has an inconsistent motor he even as a somebody watching him at Arizona the motor was inconsistent then I don't know how you coach that I don't know if it's as simple as as Vogel can bring it out of him but when he is motivated you see him he's can be an elite offensive rebounder he can be a really engaged defender and then you see other times like last playoff run where it's like who is this guy and you're absolutely right both the I test and the plus minus number said Jacques Landel was amazingly a better option against nickel Yochitch last playoffs well they're gonna have to lift him up and by them I mean not Vogel Vogel is gonna lift everybody up all the time the dude wishes all the journalists in the room good luck with your deadlines before every playoff game he's a fountain of hope and smiling optimism the stars are gonna have to lift him up yeah and that's that that's gonna mean like don't roll your eyes when he does the deandre in thing of turning away from the rim to shoot a stupid jump hook instead of dunking it don't get fed up with him when he wants to take mid-range jumpers and all that you've got you you have to correct those things but you have to do it in a way where it's not shoulder sagging eyes rolling oh here we go again with this dude because they're gonna need to and it has to come from Durant who has not historically been known as that kind of leader and Booker who I think is and Biel who we haven't seen in a high-stake situation in a long time he's gonna have to feel like those guys trust him and respect him and have his best interests for this team to be good enough defensively to win and by the way like Durant's a good defensive player Booker has become a solid defensive player yeah I think we'll see a renewed effort from Biel they have these guys that will come in off the wing off the bench and do their jobs um and if you have a great offense and you don't foul and I they have to correct this fouling problem that they've had for a million years and I think Frank Vogel historically has done that with his teams if you have a great offense and you can set your defense and you don't foul you have a floor that's not high but like you're kind of walking in is like we can be the 20th best defense in the league just doing that stuff and then if we just learn our scheme and do it every single time we can get to 12-13th whatever and that's good enough to win the title yeah yeah absolutely so like you said it starts with Aiden and then Josh Akogi was just a huge just a monster defensively down the stretch last year he played a lot in those KD lineups that like I said went eight no during the regular season kind of fell off during the playoffs shooting wise just didn't have much confidence in his jump shot but I think he's a player that shouldn't be overlooked I think he could play a huge role even be a starter at times this year and he's just himself makes you a much better defense well he lost his starting spot against the clippers to Tory Craig because they were worried about matching up with Kauai in the first round and you wonder if that kind of killed his confidence a little bit because he had been all you want from Josh Akogi in the regular season is due defense is a given rebounding is a given he was literally one of the best offensive rebounding guards in the history last season in terms of offensive rebounding rate cutting on offense that's a given beyond that you just wanted to shoot when he's open because you just need a full season of him doing that so that he knows like I got to shoot these corner threes if I'm open and he seemed to lose that confidence I like him the reason I would go with baits the up is yeah at first is I kind of want to see what I have he shot he's big and rangel he's a fantastic cutter which is something I want around these dudes are going to draw all the attention and he shot 39% from three last year I need to see if that's real it's been up and down need to see if it's real and I like Akogi in the screen setter rule at on offense as sort of like their Bruce Brown back when Bruce Brown was doing that for the nets with the rant and and that's harder for him to do with eight and on the floor because it kind of marginalizes eight and a little bit that's the reason I would go baits the up but again like you said Gordon is going to close a lot of games as the fifth guy and you know all these guys are going to get chances to play no I agree I think you start off with baits deop I would honestly use the regular season just to experiment and try different guys especially in different matchups if there's a really tough perimeter player who you want Akogi on a lot I'd start him if it's a more general matchup I probably go with baits deop and maybe even you know try what nabi just see see what they look like with the starters I think the the regular season should almost be a 82 game preseason where you see what kind of looks you have because I think that was one of the big issues in the playoffs they literally had eight games they had no idea what rotations were supposed to be game to game they completely changed one game Damien Lee was playing the most minutes off the bench the next game he didn't even play so I think this should be all about making sure you have your rotation sat you know which groups play well together and whatever though if that costs you a couple wins in the regular season no big deal just kind of need to figure that stuff out I will say I can't totally dismiss the sort of I'm not skeptical but I understand why people are it does feel like culturally there's a fragility to this team that you do worry like we have seen the eight in situations spiral out of control before we've seen like we saw what happened with Durant's team and broken it wasn't his fault but like it just he just kind of he wanted out by the end and like and and Biel will have to see how it all blends but on paper I think the team is better than people even are giving a credit for I will ask you though as a fan are you excited about the team or do you wish do you wish they had kept together the twins Mikhail Bridges came Johnson like that team like does does part of you miss that group and wish you would just kind of carried it forward you know really Zach it's to me it's a no-brainer I've been a fan since 93 the franchise has been around since 68 a longest-running team without a title no I want Kevin Durant on my team I want Bradley Biel on my team I want to win the title I think we saw early last season that last year's team wasn't going to get it done like Mikhail Bridges incredible player absolutely love him can't wait to cheer for him on team USA but I want whatever raises the title odds and I think there's no question that having Kevin Durant and Bradley Biel significantly raised the title odds compared to what we would have been talking about a year ago with this team where it was still short of the homegrown team so love Mikhail love cam wish them all the best at Mikhail's a free agent in 2026 we'll see we'll see we'll see all boy oh he's laying seeds for 2026 free agency absolutely but no Zach I want whatever is gonna win this team a title I've been waiting way too long for this so I think that what they've done certainly increases those chances so I'm excited for that I think the homegrown is what got them there they did such a good job with that that they were able to have the pieces to trade for Kevin Durant and I'm excited about what they have now can we at least agree on this Matt ish be a flopped in the Yoke incident he went on record with Brian Winhorse and was like I didn't flop I was just trying to get out of the way and avoid touching the coldly at dude you you reclined in that seat more aggressively than like my grandpa after a day at the carpet salesman location in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania back in the day like he fly he flopped like come on sure maybe maybe a little bit of a flop but you got to give him credit I think Booker and KD told him after the game how often does your owner get you a point like that's pretty crazy how many owners have gotten a point in playoff history not very many right you got to give him credit for that even if there was a little bit of a flop no credit zero you got them a point so Deandre eight and last year 18 points 10 rebounds 59% shooting 60% on two sounds good on paper right Deandre and three point revolution never really happened no defensively I thought before last season he had grown into a clearly above average defensive big man one of the one of the rare legit seven footers who can protect the rim and dropback and pick and roll is strong enough to battle everyone in the post no one can battle Yoke it's anymore he's achieved on guardability it's done nobody can guard Yoke it's in the post but everyone else and and get out like if you need to corral a pick and roll at the three point line like he can do that and he's fast enough to do it and get back to his guy and offensively I like I know like we all roll our eyes when he like catches the ball and spins away and does a stupid jump hook yeah but I 18 a game is not nothing and maybe I'm maybe I'm dumb maybe I've done the thing where it's I've let it color to my brain too much I go back to that series against the pelicans from the 2022 playoffs all the time when Booker was hurt and he was putting up 20 a game pretty regularly in that series or 18 and 13 27 and 14 big scoring games and like making creating buckets out of nothing automatic mid-range jumpers and I don't know how you get back to that guy but that guy is legit really really good not an all star not an all star and that's fine they don't need to be an all star but like a legit really good NBA center I just need to see that guy come back again because I people talk about the Andreate now like he's just like a 10th guy like he's a has but already it has been somehow like they need to get rid of them and you know maybe at some point the team thought yeah we don't love this contract we would like to get rid of them but he's a he's a good I still think he's a good player am I missing something am I letting that pelican series color my brain too much no that's what's so flimaxing about him because he is like physically he's got everything you want physically right strong he's got the athleticism he even back to college he's been able to guard on the perimeter a little bit I've obviously not against the best guards but he can hold his own at least so that's I think that's what's so frustrating about him because you don't get that Deandreate in all the time and you don't know when you're gonna get that Deandreate and because he then again go back to the Denver series two years ago he was probably the I mean Chris Chris Paul was unbelievable offensively but certainly defensively he was the MVP of that series I think he was a big reason that that was a sweep he he was able to do a decent enough job on yoke it's he's a really good finisher he's always been a super efficient shooter I know he had some sort of field goal percentage streaks in 2021 so he gets it done at both ends he's he's a good mid-range shooter obviously you don't you don't want him taking those shots but for a big man he can make it really everything except for the three ball like you said never never really happened it's just you don't know what effort you're gonna get out of him on a on a daily basis you don't know which Deandreate and you're gonna get if if it's the if it's him playing his hardest and at his peak that's a well above average center so yeah it's frustrating and at this point like if you look at what the sun's roster has outside of starting center and you say like who would you want to be their center I'd say Deandreate and would be one of the top players you would say because he's a guy who can who can be that defender who does a little bit of everything and he he's a really good finisher he's he's gonna get so many opportunities to finish it's just like it feels like he wants to be like what Jordan pool is on Washington where he can just take a ton of shots you know and just kind of create and do whatever he wants but yeah that's that's why he's frustrating because he always should be better than he is he shows some some tantalizing potential and doesn't quite reach it yeah he should get on the phone with Jeremy Grant who's another guy who wanted to see what he could do as the number one option on a team went to Detroit didn't didn't turn down yeah I think it was the same money that Denver offered him went to Detroit because he wanted to do it and great he actually did much better than I thought and they lost a ton of games and that's what's gonna happen to Jordan pool and that's what would happen to Deandreate and and that's what I mean by they're gonna have to lift him up because he's not going to be the player he wants to be and he's not going to be the player every night that they want him to be and everyone is just going to have to accept that and try to make the best of it and try to lift him up and I think I think look booker's booker is booker booker is like he hasn't won a title but he's already kind of a made man in the NBA in terms of like the respect level that he has what he's done on the biggest stages he's won a title for his own you know satisfaction probably but Durant is obviously Kevin Durant but he's he should be like just just super hungry to come in and win this year given that he's never going to be given the quote unquote credit he thinks he deserved for being a two-time finals MVP on the Warriors just because of the circumstances under which he joined the team it actually plumixes me that Durant doesn't and I love Kevin Durant as a player it's confusing to me that he appears still puzzled by why that is that he doesn't get the credit like he shouldn't know in that the minute he thought about signing there how that was going to be perceived and now any level of success he experienced was going to be perceived that's not to say he shouldn't have signed here can do whatever I really want if you gave me a gazillion dollars to live in San Francisco and hang out with Steph Dreymon and Clay I would do it just don't expect to be given equivalent credit to like Dirk Novitsky on the 2011 Mavs or whatever you want to say Giannis sorry on the 2021 buck sorry Mike to bring that bring that one up and Biel man people need to go back and watch like young Brad Biel going up against Tom Thibito's defense in the playoffs when he was like 20 years old go watch him against the Hawks that won 60 games in 2015 against the Celtics even in 2017 when the Celtics beat him in game seven that dude is at some massive playoff games yeah and more than that the manner in which he's played in those games from day one when he was in the NBA he might have been 19 I don't know how young he was very young because he came to the league very young and he's facing this like the remnants of this ferocious tibb's defense he was completely fearless and comfortable with the ball and comfortable in the moment and I I'm hopeful that he wants to come out and and and be like I've heard the noise like my contract my contract stinks the with the the sons were dumb to give up like a bunch of second round picks and picks was for me overlapping skill sets I'm not a winner I'm expecting kind of a big season from Bradley Biel and I think he's I'm hopeful he delivers on it yeah and the other thing I love about having Biel as opposed to last year's team with with Chris Paul is there will inevitably be games that Katie and book miss hopefully not any long term injuries but having a guy like Biel who can shift into that one or two role I think is going to be really important just for regular season maintenance obviously in the playoffs you need all three of them kicking on all cylinders but I think having a third guy who has been a one and who can be a one for stretches I think is going to be really helpful well and he's he's also going to be targeted on defense almost like the way Curry was by default as the smallest guy in some lineups the guy who opposing point guards are going to be defending a lot so you know he'll be he'll be guarding ball handlers on the other and he'll have to get around screen something he has not been really good at the past few years let's see how he handles that kind of sort of mismatch hunting that that he's going to face you know he's going to have to fight and they're going to have to cover for him but he's he's showing his willingness and ability to do that like there's a world in which this all goes badly and there's infighting and sniping and they're like eight and eight and it's like on the verge of crumbling I kind of think it's going to go the other way where these guys are going to be excited to play together and yeah there are some warts to iron out but this team's going to be really good to be clear Denver's the favorite this is the best starting five in basketball with the best player in basketball and the best home court advantage in basketball and they just won the championship they're the favorite Jeff Green all due respect was a big part of their championship team he's replaceable Bruce Brown is not just like an average bench guy that left he's not even an average sixth man really he was part of their closing lineup on tons of nights and handled the ball a lot there's a lot that happens in the offseason everyone knows that that loss is going to hurt Denver that is not a trivial loss like they fell back a little ways toward the pack and I think Phoenix is right there kind of next in line yeah I agree I think that's certainly how it should be looked at going in and I think that if if that is going to be the potential playoff matchup in a series that decides the west excited about what the sons have compared to what they had last year certainly with having Brad Beale instead of Chris Paul who played one and a half games in that series and and was done but also just having so much more on the bench and like I said earlier having what hopefully will be actually cohesive units and actually knowing what the team wants game to game as as far as what their rotations look like I mean they're just going to be really hard to guard you think about it like you can't it's going to be very hard to have two bad defenders on the floor against them and yeah your your point guard is going to have to guard someone he's going to have to guard Beale or he's going to have to guard the baits the up spot and if you put him in that spot then you have to have three really good defenders to guard the Beale Booker Durant Trio three guys who are comfortable on the perimeter who can run around screens you know other than that you're going to see the the weaker defenders hide on baits deop like that's where Zion will go where Luca will go but it's just it becomes hard to arrange the chess pieces in a way that is not uncomfortable for your defense against these guys I think these guys going to be fun and really really good and in the inner circle of championship contenders yeah you always talk about you know what's the least bad choice and when you're guarding the sons especially with that Gordon lineup they're man every choice is bad there's no least bad choice well the least bad choice is going to be the other guy shooting an open three as we've seen right and there's with air Gordon is a not great choice no if it's air Gordon that's bad and whoever the other guy is on the court they're just going to have to activate him as a screener on and off the ball and I think they have to pace and diversity to do that like if the if the little guy is if the worst guy is on Josh and Kogi use him as a screener it's going to be fun man we got a lot we got a long time to talk about these guys we got a long off season ahead but I thought it was time to start just sort of picturing what they're going to look like on the floor Mike Schwartz any last words on the sons anybody we didn't hit that you want to talk about yeah no I'm just excited I think that I think those are three stars that are like we've seen in the past with star trios that it's kind of dueling banjos I think that Katie and book in particular of so much respect and work so well together that we're not going to see that I think it's going to be more of a cohesive unit we shall see Mike Schwartz I'll see you in Los Angeles but not for a little while now before I go back out there for NBA today enjoy the off season and that we'll talk to you soon sounds good see you soon