Most Intriguing Offseason Teams with Howard Beck

The low post is presented by Amazon Music. Did you know you could be listening to this episode of The Low Post. Add free on Amazon Music. And now the low post. Welcome to the low post podcast Tuesday morning. The draft is over. Free agency is 50 something hours away. And it's time to say the three most anticipated words in NBA podcasting. Dames been treated. Wait, no, what a back. Howard back. How are you? What's that? I was that's the greatest misdirection you've ever thrown at me phenomenal. I love it. I'm going to be literally on the edge of my seat. You can't see my seat. I'm just going to sit on the edge of my seat for the entirety of this podcast. While we sit here talking about Dame Lillard and many other things while waiting for some clarity on Dame Lillard, our long national John Collins Nightmare is over our long national Dame Lillard Nightmare is seemingly just beginning. John Collins, long nightmare is over more than any of us. John Collins, although I'm not sure Utah was going to be number one on his destination list. Atlanta was rapidly becoming bottom five. We have to start with Damien Lillard. This was supposed to be a five most intriguing offseason teams podcast. But number one is Portland. So we might as well start with Damien Lillard. I have already done the Scoot Henderson stewardship of the blazers. Thread the needle is that even possible dialogue enough times. Let's do the update. The update was that Dame and his agent Aaron Goodwin met with blazers brass yesterday in Joe Cronin. Relieved the GM of the blazers release a statement far and wide. That says the following. I met with Dame and Aaron Goodwin this afternoon. We had a great dialogue. We remain committed to building a winner around Dame. Unsaid is whether Dame remains committed to building a winner in Portland around Dame. And I don't think that's really an accident. I think if this ever got to the point where Damien Lillard wanted out of Portland and made it known internally that he wanted out of Portland explicitly, not I want out unless you do X, Y and Z, I'm out. I'm done. Here are the teams I want to go to. I think he is such a respected leader and has so much respect for the blazers and so much hope for the blazers with or without him over the next 10 years, so much invested in how that organization does that I don't think he'll ever make a public trade demand that limits their market in any way. I think even if he knows the two teams that he wants to go to, the three teams, the four teams, the one team, whatever it is, and we know Miami's number one. Even if he knows that and even if the blazers know in the end, they're going to accommodate him because he's Damien Lillard, the greatest blazer in the history of the blazers, unless you prefer Clyde Drexner, which frankly, open for debate. I don't really care right now. That's neither here nor there. I think they would both try to at least gin up the illusion of a wider trade market. So I don't know what happened in the meeting yesterday. I don't know what's going to happen today. I don't know what's going to happen next week. My best guess is that they're going to try to show him in the next 72 hours, 96 hours, week, two weeks, whatever it is. Here's our plan for threading the needle. Here's our plan for yes, we just drafted another teenager, but we think the teenager we drafted is really good and ready to play now. We think the teenager we drafted last year is going to be awesome soon. We think Jeremy grants coming back. We think we can get somebody good with the mid-level. We think we can resign, but he's stable. We think we can do X, Y and Z via trade and upgrade whatever position in our depth. Then Jabari Walker is coming on. Here's our plan. See how we execute it and let's revisit it to be clear. I don't know if that's what's going to happen. If you told me on this podcast that Chris Haynes comes out and tweets, Damien Lillard wants out of Portland, I wouldn't be surprised. If you told me Damien Lillard is on the blazers in January, and this is Kevin Durant and Brooklyn 2.0, where everyone puts it off and puts it off and puts it off. And then the bandaid gets ripped off when the bandaid's already fallen off. And the whole thing is a disaster wouldn't be surprised. How are back? How are you? What do you make of all this? Doing well. Thank you. Like everybody else who is paying attention to this league or people around the league, my head is sort of spinning. And I get it. There's like this kind of weiriness out there about the Lillard thing. Even though this is really the first time that's facing that it's kind of come this close to coming to a head. I don't even want to say it's come to a head. It seems like the meeting yesterday was it coming to a head, but then the statement from Joe Krohn and after the meeting was kind of like, it's coming to a shoulder. It's coming to a chest. It hasn't reached the head. Whatever direction we go, that's where we are. We are somewhere in the torso vicinity at this stage. But Joe Krohn and statement seem to be trying to convey the idea that hey, you know, we're all on the same page. Us, Dame, his representation. We're all talking. We're all committed to each other. Everything's fine. Everybody go home, stop with your visuals and your trade speculation. Stand down on the trade machine. Like they seem like this was trying to me. And I'm viewing this through the typical journalistic cynical prism to me. Krohn and statement was trying to calm the waters so that they can do whatever they have to do next, which I still think inevitably is a trade of Damien Lillard. Like I don't know if there was going to be a path, Zach, that was not going to trade Damien Lillard. Let me back up. There's three paths, right? We know what the three paths are. Build a contender to the best of your ability around Damien Lillard. And by contender, I just mean a team that has, I don't know, let's say a puncher's chance. You love that phrase. So I'm just going to say puncher's chance, um, sacrifice some portion of your future and build an immediate, respectable high level playoff team around Damien. That's option one, option two is, of course, trade Damien Lillard, build around Scoot Henderson, Shane Sharp, uh, dampening assignments. And then there's a third option. Straddle two eras, sit on the fence with a big wooden fence post stuck right up your, you know, easy, I mean, but that's where they are. Zach, that is where they are. They have been sitting on a sharp prickly fence post with splinters for, I don't know how long. Um, I was thinking about all these choices and it is, it is unpleasant. But that's what they've done, Zach, they have chosen a chair now. They have chosen the worst, the most untenable of the three options, which is the, uh, we don't really want to trade Damien Lillard unless he asked Sport and he's not going to ask for it. We don't really want to trade our young players because we really think we're worried about what's going to happen once Damien Lillard's gone. So we're just going to straddle this thing. I know. Let's do a two timelines plan. Oh, no, wait. A team down in the Bay area that is a much better, more successful franchise and that it's one for four titles was trying that and is now more or less abandoned it because it's really, really hard to pull off even when you have all the equity built up of having won titles. It's, it's, it's untenable. It is uncomfortable. I apologize for the, uh, graphic nature of the imagery of fence posts in places. But that's where they are. Um, I don't, I was, I was like noting like options and choices and whatever. And it just, it just hit me because I think I just watched this late one night recently of Indiana Jones in the last crusade in that last scene with the, uh, the old knight who's been guarding the grail and after, uh, Nazi collaborator archeologist dude drinks from the wrong one. And he's just says he chose poorly. They have chosen poorly, um, first, to this point. First of all, I still haven't seen the, the shy of above Indiana Jones and the crystal skull as it is, but as everyone says, I've not seen that one nor the new one. So I'm, I'm still, I'm still in classic Indiana Jones mode. I've not attempted modern, uh, remakes or, or extensions. So I, I disagree with you. I don't think it's untenable and I don't think it's impossible. And I don't think it's even irrational for them to try it. I, I think all, if your goal is build a championship contender, um, every path is a losing path. Every path is a low odds path. I think they're best possible chance of building a championship contender in the, next medium term is definitely trading Damien Liller in rebuilding. I think that's of all the paths. That's the most likely to, to yield a true blue legitimate contender. If you're going to tell me that the thread, the needle is the least likely of the three to build a legitimate contender, think you're probably right. That's different than saying it's impossible and untenable because I do think, especially if they change those protections on the pick, they owe the bulls and open up a little trade flexibility. They have a pathway to being a pretty good Western conference team. And by that, I mean, resign grant, make a trade that upgrades the roster somewhere, maybe center, maybe not. You wouldn't be surprised. I don't think in the Western conference next year. If Portland is like a pretty good fifth seed, that's two, two in the second round against Denver because they got lucky and someone on Denver is injured and all of a sudden, it's exciting and that that moment, everyone will say, whoa, they chose wisely. They are actually pulling this off now. And I think part of that is if they actually do that and I'm not convinced they will and I'm not convinced they even want to. But if that's what they do, I think that's partly a wager on who are we scared of in the Western conference other than Denver, who, who are we actually frightened of? Who's on a trajectory of, of unvarnished excellence for the next two or three years? We trust Phoenix with this new big three and nothing. Well, eight, and I guess we trust the L.A. teams who are cobblin every year, cobblin and the Lakers did a wonderful job of cobblin. Clippers are on my list of most intriguing offseason teams. They have some pretty big questions. We trust Memphis, Sacramento, New Orleans, Golden State. We trust any of those. Are we scared of any of them now on the flip side? And why I think that's sort of a glass three quarters the way full view of you in the Western conference. Man, you look at the West. Houston's not on my list of most intriguing offseason teams, because I think we know what they're going to do. They're going to splurge. They're going to splurge on veterans. They just had a pretty good draft. They have a lot of good young players. They get an organizer in there. Let's say Fred Van Vley, not saying that's going to happen, but they get a real organizer in there that organizes their team. They get an anchor on defense who can at least prop them up a little bit. Whoever that ends up being, they're not going to be bad. Not going to be like they've been the spurs. Obviously, we know who the spurs are getting and that dude's going to be good right away. I don't know how good, but he's not going to walk in the door like a typical rookie. He's going to be good and they have cap space and they have a core of young players who are all improving, particularly if they bring back trade zones. You can go in the Western conference next year and legitimately have all 15 teams either trying to win or on the upswing at the same time. Like there's going to be no easy outs next year in the Western conference, no easy patsies if the rockets and the spurs use their cap space correctly. Now, and I think that kind of mitigates against the idea that, yeah, maybe the West is open-ish after Denver, but it's also like you could be 12th pretty easily if things go, if things go poorly for you. And on the, even on the flippity flip of that, if everyone is trying to win in the West next year, obviously there's an opening for any team who would like to do what the wizards are doing and increase their chances of getting a top four pick in the draft. So I don't think it's untenable. I don't think it's impossible. I don't even think it's ridiculous for them to try it. Do you know what else I don't like about this whole, this whole discussion? Howard back fence posts, fence posts. No, that reminded me of every of the year book quote that people used of like one of my friends used this in high school, just his whole year. You know how people in there, your book quotes, they put initials and they try and put like philosophizing quotes about life and what really matters. And they shout out to my friends and he just put the whole quote was never play leap frog with a unicorn. That was the whole quote. It's like that. That's a good senior quote. I like it. Shout out Ned Lanneman, who I believe lives in Portland now. Good year book quote. Good job, Ned. Two things I don't like about this. Okay. Number one, I'm real tired of the word should coming out of the mouth of pundits on television who have zero of their life invested in the Portland Trailblazers or Damien Lillard telling Damien Lillard, do you care about winning? Why don't you care about winning? You've got to get out of Portland. You know what? Damien Lillard can do whatever the he wants because he scored 20,000 points almost in the NBA. He said to playoff series winning walkoff shots. If you want to try and win in Portland, let him try to win in Portland. Don't tell him what he should do. I don't tell you how it back. You should move out of Brooklyn. You should stop writing for GQ. Go on strike. I don't like that. And I don't like and that this is the end and I'll let you talk. I don't like the assumption in the media and among people around the league that there's a lack of sincerity on the part of both the Blazers and Damien Lillard stemming from the idea that neither of them wants to be the bad guy. Now, I believe that neither of them wants to be the bad guy. And I believe that comes from sincere affection for the other party, not some desire to control the optics, i.e. the Blazers secretly actually want to trade Damien Lillard, but they don't want to look bad. Damien Lillard secretly wants to light the organization on a fire, but doesn't want to look bad. I'm sure there are members of the front office that actually do. If they had their druthers would like to trigger a rebuild, but I think both parties are sincerely torn loyal and able to feel multiple things at one. So I don't like should and I don't like the cynicism of well, they both want to break up, but they just don't want to look bad. Maybe parts of them do want to break up parts of them do want to try to make it work. Like, this is a real human drama here. It's not like, I don't know. It's not like just cold-hearted chess. By the way, I'm just now noticing that you're wearing a Miami heat Miami vice shirt and it looks awesome. It's phenomenal. It's a nice shirt. I'm with you on, on, on pretty much all of that. And the story I had for GQ Sports yesterday afternoon, you know, I had one of those blind quotes from somebody else in the league who was basically saying like, nobody wants to be the bad guy. And I and talking to people for over the course of days for just and it wasn't a Dame Lillard specific story. It was broadly just kind of setting up the off season, but it was every time it came to Dame and the lasers and this seeming whatever stalemate standoff, limbo, you know, fences. This sense is, yeah, this they're heading for a divorce. But yeah, it is kind of the no one wants to be the bad guy. But it wasn't so much about optics. It is, it was, it was more of, I think a mix of what you're saying. I think Damien Lillard, I have always honored this and believe this in his sincerity of wanting to stick it out in Portland, stick it out as is actually even too pejorative of wanting to make it work important, of wanting to stay there of keeping faith in that franchise and of liking and loving his place in that community, that city, that franchise is legacy, everything about it. And if he decides to stay there's act as much as I have said, I don't think this is, this is, this is tenable. If he decides he wants to stay and they make whatever moves they make, they don't make what a fine, whatever, that's fine. It's their franchise and it's his careers, not my, I don't, he doesn't care about winning. He's a loser. I saw one specific rant about that yesterday and I almost smash. Damien Lillard has one more big stuff in life. Yeah, it's just so then I could do in a hundred lifetimes. It, it's so dumb. Listen, could I make the case, which I've probably made in some form? Is it the most, is the most logical path if you want to win titles? Is there a better path somewhere else right now? Yes, I believe Damien Lillard, if he decided he wants out and it gets traded somewhere else, there are teams that would give him a better, more sensible, rational path to contention. There are no guarantees of titles in this league, as we know. But other teams have a better chance to put him in position given that he's about to turn 33 and I think 18 days from now. The clock is definitely ticking and I think other teams are better positioned to give him a chance to go further in the playoffs than the blazers are right now. That's just the cold hard facts of it. All right, but if he wants to stay, I have no problem with that. And if he wants to stay even as some combination of, Hey, listen, I, I want you to do everything possible to try to win at the highest level while I'm still here, but in the meantime, it would also be meaningful to me in the twilight of my career to be a mentor to scoot Henderson to continue to be a mentor to Anthony Simon's if he's still in the roster in Shade and Sharp. And like, that's fine too. And they're, you know, there's a lot of ways to be quote unquote successful in this league and to have a legacy in this league and they don't all involve collecting rings. I love what Vince Carter did with the back half of his career. But I do think that Lillard has made it clear in various ways, subtly and not so subtly, that there is an urgency that he does want to see them. Oh, he, he's set it on the record. I don't want to have a youth movement around me. Yeah. And that, and so when I say untenable, they're doing the youth movement. They didn't trade the pick to be came Shade and Sharp a year ago. They didn't trade the pick to be came scoot Henderson. Now they could still trade both of those people. They could, they could trade Shade and Sharp. They could trade the rights to scoot Henderson. They could trade Anthony Simon's. They could, you know, any given minute now, they could make a hard left turn and would change the entire discussion. But as of right now, it seems to me like there's just, they're stuck in this kind of limbo where it is a little bit of, listen, I, to your point about how we're characterizing these two parties and sincerity and everything else. I don't think I have much doubt in my mind that if Damien Lillard goes to them today and says, you know what, I'm sorry, it's just, it's time, it's time. It's not a trade demand. It's not a trade request. This is a discussion. But I think we need to work together on something that benefits you and benefits me. However you want to phrase that, term that. I think that would be a relief on some level to blazers management, not that they would relish the trading him away, but it would be a relief. I do think it lets you off the hook. You don't want your legacy to be the GM, GM who traded Shaq, the GM who traded Damien Lillard, the GM who traded Kevin Durant, it's hard to be that person. It's hard to bear that. It comes with a lot of baggage. It would let them off the hook if he just says it's time and not because they need to be able to say to the public, well, we didn't want to trade him, but Damien demanded it. It wouldn't be that. But that won't happen. That there will not be that kind of slinging of dirt. No, I don't believe so. But even in a private conversation where he makes his wishes clear, that gives them absolute clarity on their direction. They're no longer straddling and they can do it because they know this is in his best interest and what he thinks is in his best interest, which is the most important part of best interest, what Damien thinks of his best interest. So I think it would let them off the hook. I think they would feel some relief at that. The most, I don't even say frustrating thing. I don't, again, in the end, I don't care. I'm just an observer, but I think the most frustrating thing and watching it from a distance is the lack of clarity. The teams that generally frustrate me the most are the ones I look at and go, I don't know what you're doing or if you even have a clear idea of what you're doing. You just seem to be meandering and they're always a handful of franchises at any given period of time, who were just kind of like grasping at straws or just kind of, you know, lurching toward this thing, then that thing, they don't have a clear set of convictions or values or direction. And those are the franchises that kind of drive me crazy sometimes. And it's felt like Portland has been in that, that kind of philosophical limbo. I don't disagree with you that some portion of their brain trust or some portion of every individual's brain in the brain trust would feel relief. I also think they sincerely, another parts of their brain, sincerely kind of like the theoretical slash not so theoretical anymore challenge of, can we actually do it? Can we actually thread the needle and build a winner around aim? Like that's a fun front office challenge. If that meeting were to take, go ahead. Yeah. No, can I just point out one of the things before I lose this thread in my own head? Without the Western conference. So even if we wrote off a couple of those teams, let's say Houston doesn't figure it out this summer and they're still kind of bad and the spurs kind of slow roll it around Victor, women yaman, they're not trying to go all in just yet and they're still going to be kind of bad. They are going to slow roll it and you know what, the slow roll might be okay. They might be pretty good. But even if we're just talking about 12, 13 teams that are in it, I think it also can make the argument for not trying to thread the needle with with Damon keeping him there and trying to do basically a two timelines plan of sorts because I look at it through the reverse lens, which is, what are you Portland doing that's going to vault you past? And granted, you're right. How much do I trust the Kings? How much do I trust the, the, the sons would built around three guys with a massive amount of money? How much do I trust the Clipper staying healthy? How much do I, like use a lot of variables with all these staying healthy. We have to change the language from staying healthy to getting healthy about the Clippers. There are a lot of variables with all of these teams that are ahead of Portland, but I look at it through the prison of if you're making some moves to try to be good right now around Dame and to pass all these teams, what are you getting that's definitively making you better than as flawed as they might be the Lakers, as flawed as they might be the sons, as flawed as they might be the Kings or the Grizzlies or who or the Clippers. Like, what are you doing that's actually vaulting you past all these teams? And I don't know that that path is that simple. If you're not going to give up some pieces of your future because your best trade assets remain the guys that you insisted on drafting and keeping shade and sharp and scoot Henderson. So I'm not trading those guys. They're not going to do that. Right. Exactly. So how do you prove this roster if you can't figure out if you don't have the other assets to acquire better talent? So that goes back to a little discussed part of this, which is I don't think people have kind of looked back at the CJ McCollum trade enough because they let they traded Nance in that trade who's a player who's not healthy very often but good when he's healthy. They got Josh Hart and the Keele Alexander Walker back. Josh Hart and the Keele Alexander have turned into Chris Murray essentially who they just picked in the draft and they picked Chris Murray because he's an older college player and he's ready to play now and they think he's going to be ready to play immediately. But you look at that starting five as it is now and you have Dame and one or two of the young guards and Nerkitchen Grant, if they resigned Grant, and there's a hole on the wing that is Josh Hart sized and Josh Hart got off to a roaring start in Portland and then tailed off and stopped shooting threes and got the yips, got traded to the Nicks for a picked it ended up in the 20s was awesome for the Nicks so awesome that they're almost certainly going to bring him back on some kind of new deal. And like they would they would be a lot better if they had a veteran wing kind of like Josh Hart and that CJ McCollum trade. I'm not saying it was like amazing for New Orleans or I don't know if it was amazing for either team but to it's that that's an element that's not discussed. Now if that Damien Lillard meeting that you just described theoretically gave you goes in and says it's time this is not a demand it's a discussion let's collaborate. Here's how I would envision that that meeting playing out. You would normally think there would be a tweet from someone in the media close to Dames camp who would tweet Dames case and what he's demanding and the list of teams and maybe that's what happens. I could see an alternate reality where they work so collaboratively together that they say let's just not leak this to anybody. We want an open market. We want a frothy market. We want to help each other. I know where you want to go. I'm going to get you there but let's mechanically do it in a way that best helps to blazers which is being quiet about it. Now you can't be quiet about anything in the NBA. So then the way it leaks is that the teams that he wants to go to start to get contacted by the blazers by Dames representatives. We know who those teams are Miami maybe Brooklyn maybe some Cinderella teams that we are not talking about and then they start to talk and then it starts to get out almost kind of organically as the league gossip chain begins and look we know like Miami we know the Miami offer it's hero some salary filler two heat picks maybe the kid they just drafted from UCLA or Yovic or something like that's it's not amazing it's not amazing it's better than nothing it's okay the nets would have a decision to make which is how aggressively do we want to be do we want to be in on this how aggressively do we want to pair Dame and bridges and claxon and figure out what we have and figure out if we can get another guy because you're not trading bridges or claxon if you're trading for Daniel you're keeping both of those guys yeah that's the whole point which means you're throwing well you're throwing Ben Simmons salary into the trade and you get his Instagram account as well and does that count against the cap the Instagram account does that actually it actually it it's you have to send out extra second round picks for them to take on the Instagram account I don't know is that a negative asset it comes with a t-shirt to tank top something so then it's a matter of like how many picks are we going to throw in we have three sons picks left I think they have a Philly pick they have two of their own picks they can put in so how many is that six right off the bat you count the Dallas pick they have I know I guess that one too the Dallas pick that's seven and the kid they they just drafted two rookies so if you want to count one of those that's kind of like eight picks are how much of that they're not going to throw all that in but how much of that are we willing to throw in and then after that it's it's kind of hard to find a team that makes sense honestly like it feels almost destined to be if it ever comes to be Miami and or Brooklyn decides to hell with it let's really go for it but Miami being the leader in the clubhouse you could make it it's I mean is there anyone else you want to make a case for but you can go through all the teams if you want but I haven't gone down that rabbit hole that far I mean I I kind of feel like there's an inevitability here if there's a trade discussion collaboration that it's probably those two teams it it ends up with one of the two and the thing is the nets are in the driver's seat because of everything you just listed right like if if the blazer's goal which obviously it has to be is set themselves up as best as possible for the post Dame era so get as many young assets picks as you can the nets have much more of that to offer than the heat do how much will the blazers factor in Damien's own preferences if he says look I'm good with either but I far prefer Miami how much do you do you honor that and potentially sacrifice some of the return I the teams are not known for sacrificing much in terms of of a return when you're trading a player of that caliber your your your gut the understanding is going to be if we do this we need to get the best possible return within reason we're not going to get the best possible return if it means sending you somewhere you absolutely don't want to go but if you are fine with both of these teams and one of them clearly has a better array of of assets to offer us than we got to go with that that offer and I think the nets have a lot more just because of that all the the irony of this right the team that had sacrificed all of its draft picks uh to get James Hardin and now has one of the better arrays of of draft assets to offer those Phoenix picks far out are as of today valuable I mean four years they could look less valuable we don't know but right now you have to look at them like those are pretty good picks yeah in the same way that people looked at the nets picks that went to Houston as like well it's going to crash and burn eventually sooner than later and those will be really good picks um that may have changed if the nets you know pull this off so um I hadn't I hadn't really been even in my own head workshop other teams did you have other places you you thought about sending Dame for uh uh fabulous prizes not really just to go super fast people have pitched Philly I don't see it particularly of Hardin returns I don't know if they have the pick equity people have tried Boston I personally don't love the Jalen Brown Damian Lillard swap for either team I think Boston is paying Jalen Brown the full boat or something close to it and I don't think any of the other non Jalen Brown offers like I saw Kevin O'Connor wrote like bragged in plus Robert Williams plus like all the Celtics picks that they can offer which is I think three or four I don't think that's getting it done so I don't know um anyway that's that's the landscape as I see it and at least one of these teams Miami who because of the age of their stars and what they've accomplished together which is quite a hell of a lot I think has to be in a holding pattern for at least the next like 96 hours or so to see if the Blazers to see how kind of quick the timetable goes here how how long Dame actually gives the Blazers if this if this is a first week of July thing if it's uh I think at least Miami has to kind of just spin its wheels and they've got an outgoing free agent in Max Truce who's who's got a lot of interest as well so I think that's I think that's my best shot at where we are yeah and my last thought on this is just like the curiosities I have about what that meeting really was yesterday which we don't seem to have a whole lot of intel on so far but I I wonder if I wonder how much that meeting was listen maybe them actually laying it out right you you get curious about like how this actually the the mechanics of this did Joe Kronin and the staff actually lay out listen Dame if you if you stay if you commit to us here are the moves that we are 80% sure we can make or here's some things that you know listen it's a tampering league half the league already knows what they're doing three days for now right when free agency opens and and the trade uh you know wins start blowing hard and all that stuff did the Blazers actually lay out here's what we are pretty sure we're getting here's who's coming in to help you um or or here's here's the possibilities that we think we're gonna get at least one or two of these guys here's how we're going to leverage Jeremy Grant's free agency or how we're getting him back or here's how we're going to leverage you know here's here's what we think we can get if we trade and for any assignments whatever it may be um I I'm I'm really curious about that and I and I am at least a little suspicious about Joe Kronin's public statement which I feel like might be just trying to kind of calm the waters while they figure out next steps because I don't know how much you actually can know for sure uh on June 26th yesterday when that meeting happened let's let's move on and by the way if people are tired of talking about Damien Lillard that's the other thing I hear like oh I'm so tired of Damien Lillard you're tired of a guy who's unsure about what to do and like just don't don't talk about it you don't have no one is forcing you to talk or think about Damien Lillard think about the weather and the green grass and the sun outside and puppy dogs whatever you want to think about like think about that instead I like all those things think about the beer that's waiting for you in your fridge and you've been waiting all day to drink and think about whatever you want they call it running a business for a reason because every day feels like a sprint to the finish it takes a lot of work to make it all work but with clover and merchant one you're always a step ahead now is the perfect time to upgrade your point of sale technology we make it easy to accept payments run your business and sell more clover plus merchant one better business solutions go to clover.com slash m1 that's m is it marry in the number one to get started okay the assignment was pick your five most intriguing offseason teams let's just do it because I have a feeling the big big the trade that happened yesterday the dump the hawks taken a big old dump on Utah and Utah happily absorbing the dump I think that will come up organically give me your most intriguing non-portland offseason team you were you were appalled at me talking about a fence post sticking in places and now you're talking about people taking dumps on your podcast yeah it's my podcast I can tell about everyone there it is interesting you talked about a fence post on the low post how about that if only that post were a little lower it would be less less uncomfortable give me a team back sorry I'm losing it um how about your Sacramento Kings perfect they're on my list why are they intriguing to you other than the fact that they opened 30 million dollars in cap space on draft night by trading the number 24 pick and reshon homes to the mavericks I want to know how many people across NBA media and across NBA front offices in the landscape immediately we're doing Brian Winhurst double fingers in the air at the moment I think Brian Windhorse was doing the Brian Winhurst I didn't I was I was I was roaming around the bowels of Barclays Center during the draft so I did not I did not catch any actual on air Brian Winhurst performances unfortunately um yeah I mean look they open up all that cap room to get somebody um are they chasing Grant Williams Calcuzma Brooke Lopez Chris Middleton I don't get the low pez one I don't get the low pez one either somebody else threw that out to me yesterday and uh I'm not sure I get that but look I mean it all that cap room also presumes that that Harrison Barnes walks and this is an opportunity for them to do something by the way I also don't get the uh renegotiate uh the the the subonus contract you've got a rare opportunity in a rapidly contracting system where the the rules are going to make it very very difficult to do anything once you are over this line that line this apron that mid oven mitt all this and you need to take advantage of the cap room and the flexibility when you can using it to just make happy I making your stars happy is important but like that doesn't feel like the best use of the opportunity so particularly a guy who just played an entire season almost with a broken thumb and then got stomped on in the playoffs and kept going it didn't play particularly well in the playoffs so what if I told you mr. Beckett there was an alternative solution do you want to hear one how about and is it does it involve uh acquiring OG and an OB or somebody else with a big contract and use the room in greater voice Toronto will be talked about later um so subonus is we said about 30 million in a room that's a ballpark where they are plus or minus a bit player in a second round pick whatever so bonus mix 22 next year the last year of his contract his max is around 40 so do the math if you bump him all the way up to his max next year 18 of your 30 is gone and effectively you're like at mid-level exception level room which is not very powerful what if I told you that the kings could go to the modest subonus and say how about we bump you from 22 to 30 we give eight more and off of 30 using the new 140 percent extension rules which are going to come into effect whenever the collective bargaining gets agreement gets finished by whoever is writing the god damn thing um off of that 30 number we get you to your max next season and beyond but this season we still retain 20 something million dollars of room 25 whatever it ends up being 23 22 25 which by the way could be enough for us to bring back trade liles because his capital is really really small and go and get a 20 million dollar player if we have to move a small salary maybe we have to do that maybe I don't know who that 20 million dollar player is I think that's a potential path for them but I said last Friday I'm kind of skeptical that of all the dream on green noise I don't I I could sure I'm sure they like the idea of spooking the warriors and I'm sure they part of them likes the idea of like is it is it worth exploring we're a bad defensive team he's the greatest defensive player of his generation I just sort of doubt that that's their target and if you get down to 20 using this alternative method I'm talking about he's damn sure not your target because dream on green is not changing teams on a three year 60 million four year 80 million dollar deal dream on green is extremely likely from everything I've heard to stay with the warriors if they are in the ballpark not the ballpark if they're close to what others are offering let's put it this way the post-Christ Paul trade the assumption around the league is dream on is going back to the warriors and I agree with that so I don't know what sack is up to but that's just a path I would keep my eye on whether subonus is amenable to it I don't know but even though you're not getting your max immediately this coming season in that scenario you're still getting 30-ish and then a whole gigantic bonanza of money beyond your wildest dreams in the next like four years after that yeah and look it because he's not afraid when a player is a free agent you sometimes overpay because well I might lose my free agent if I don't overpay and I've got the ability because of the way bird rights work and everything else I can pay him or I can give him more years blah blah blah when it's a renegotiation type of situation which is what this is you are it's not the same kind of pressure like I'm sure that his camp is probably applying at least a little bit of that like oh hey you guys got some room to do this we should do it now it's not the same thing like there's no there's no obligation to do that um you have to take advantage I think he's got more leverage than that because you don't want me to get to free agency we just had the only successful year we've had in like a millennia and you traded tyrie's haliburne for me I think he's got I think he's got some leverage I'm not saying he has none I'm saying it's not quite the same pressure as if he were appending free agents um like right now um and and that's when you start doing things that you wouldn't ordinarily do and and but I like your solution which is this window to improve the roster to help him win um and and especially by the way if you're getting a defensive minded for who can take some of the pressure off of him defensively because he's not a defensive anchor this is one of the interesting things like quick quick uh side note on this literally four months ago like four months ago Sloan conference February four months no march three months ago whatever I was having this discussion with a couple of people there my my my my continuing curiosity and it was about the Denver Nuggets if if in this league usually you have uh you know a great defense is often built around a fierce rim protector of some sort how far can a team get that is built around an offensive minded center nickel yokech um how can you how can you how can you construct a sound defense can you construct a defense that's good enough to win you a championship we now have an answer yes you can so bonuses often referred to as whatever uh I hate the the poor man's phraseology but like you know discount so discount yokech whatever you want to call him um the kings have a similar challenge right now as long as the bonuses their center and he's not a rim protector and he's not a defensive anchor and you you don't construct an entire defensive scheme around him you have to find other paths and what the nuggets did very smartly was they got a contagious cowboy pope and Aaron Gordon and they got all these other so the kings I have this this opportunity with this cap room to figure out something along those lines and and and and that opportunity might not be there again for a while you know what else would help them uh imitate the Denver Nuggets path to championship glory trading for nickel yokech yeah if demand to subonus became the best player in the NBA instead of like a well so that's a nice all-star player right which is like so if if I became eight feet tall I'd be really good at basketball so it's but it's that's what I'm saying though is it's so much it's it's an even steeper climb right it's one thing to pull that off with you know middle of the path actually was better the middle of the pack defense by the end of the year they were they were they were they were pretty respectable defense but I don't think there were top 10 so it's one thing for you to be able to do that with this elite transformational generational offensive talent in in yokech it's another thing for the kings to try to pull that off with subonus who was not yokech but it is the the outline of the challenge of building the sound defense without having that defensive anchor in the middle is is at least similar they have an opportunity here to short up and that helps subonus too so that should be factored in um did I have any other notes on the kings I think that was pretty much it oh the other thing mother thought was just simply this like it was great light the beam celebratory season breakthrough season they deserve every ounce of joy and uh an excitement that they got out of it but these things don't don't necessarily we sometimes think well you've arrived you just keep going it doesn't work that way because the whole league is working furiously to try to improve themselves too there's scenarios here where when you look across the west and the suns should be better much better than they were last year and they're and they're they were better than their record by the time the playoffs arrived we talked about that before the lakers were better than their record by the time the playoffs arrived they made the conference finals the warriors were better than their records suggested but and the clippers might someday get healthy all these teams in their best case scenarios could leapfrog the kings and so the kings could stand if the kings just stay in place and just count on and I don't think they are but if they were just counting on the idea that we're just going to keep improving we're just you know we broke through and we're here we're here to stay it won't work that way they could easily sink a few spots in the standings because of what's going on around them and so they do have to be aggressive right good news for kings fans their front office will not operate that way and I agree everything I said about the west vis-a-vis the blazers the volatility of it the opportunism at the top and the the the stacked nature of the middle and the bottom applies also to the kings even though they're in a better position then the blazers give me another team on your list oh we already I mean I feel like we've already touched on this team so might as well just just finish off the conversation on the Brooklyn nets I've been fascinated by them ever since they made the two trades because I think they did much better than anybody could have anticipated when they're you know gun to the head having to trade two stores in the middle of the season within you know hours of each other a couple days of each other I'm fascinated Damian Lillard aside let's say Damian Lillard stays with Portland I just am curious how the nets handle this moment so you don't have your own picks there's no incentive to tank got it okay you have Mikhail Bridges who was playing at an outstanding level after he arrived how much of that is sustainable and and and is he a guy you could build around or is he more of a one B to a to a yet to be identified one A I assume they're going to go all out to resign cam johnson they've gotten to claxton is that your new core those three guys are you and if you're not trading for Dam either because he's not being traded or you couldn't get him are are you slow rolling this one are you just looking to be opportunistic or do you feel like in the wake of the kind of humiliation of this last few years of all that they went through and all the drama and all the angst of the Durant Kyrie era and and just the the inability to cash in on any of that and by the way I just want to note it one more I'm just going to note it every time I ever say this they're the only team in the my 26 years of covering the NBA who voluntarily sort of voluntarily blew up a plausible contender even though I didn't think they really could win a championship they blew up a plausible contender at mid season that doesn't happen so are they feeling the pressure to be very very good immediately and acting on on that and using a lot of these draft assets and players they've got all these 3 and D wings they've got a lot of interesting stuff I'm just really curious to see philosophically how where they land is this a time to immediately try to kickstart a new era because they could also by the way they could flip McHale bridges they could trade him for more stuff and I'm not saying they should I'm just saying there are there are they have every possible road available here because of of all those picks they acquired and because they have a bunch of interesting players and they're not good enough if they just rolled it back like they only made the playoffs because of the cushion that Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving left them with so I don't think you like again you're not standing pat but I am curious like which of the various paths they take especially if Dave is not available to them yeah I don't think they trade bridges for picks and go go further to the bottom there is a certain poetry in the best case scenario for the stand pat nets of the next season is to kind of be the feel good plucky superstar list team that they were before they upended their previous version of that team yeah to build the cluster that they built and exploded yeah I think there are just certain guys where if they become available you try to get them and maybe Dame is one they have to decide if that's the case if Philly ever went sideways and it doesn't look like they are going to go sideways in the near term and Bede is one of those guys would Carl Anthony Townes be one of those guys for them if if the wolves decide having paid half a billion dollars to three centers now that Nas Reed is there on a great contract I like the Nas Reed deal for them I like it for the organization I love it for Nas Reed he's a really good player that's what really good third big man make there if that's the pivot they end up making is that one of the guys you go out for actually don't know if the Nets would do that um but I think I think slow rolling it is okay because those picks aren't burning a hole in your pocket you're gonna have them for a while there's gonna be other guys that come around I think Brooklyn is a place that players are gonna it's not LA but I think it's become a place where people realize oh I can live in the city that's kind of cool like the practice facilities right there like I think that's it's a real it's a real place um I do think they're gonna need to save some money because Cam Johnson's gonna gonna have suitors and he's gonna cost a lot and they're gonna want to keep him so I think you know they've been asking a lot for Royce O'Neill and Dorian Finney Smith like picks upon picks um maybe one for Royce O'Neill and one and something for Finney Smith whatever the price ends up I could see that demand coming down and like a cost-cutting move happening even a small one like I like to Royce O'Neill over Jetty Osmond is a trade that I think makes a lot of sense for both teams with with probably Cleveland giving a few seconds if they have any left I think they do um for for an upgrade at the wing but that's the nets pick me your next team um can't avoid it and it's related the Mavericks um I don't want to talk about the Mavericks next I don't why are they interesting sell me on why they're interesting I mean they they have Kyrie they're they're probably gonna bring them back they they made they had a great draft night I thought yeah and and picked up some guys who fit they clearly are gonna look around for more upgrades in the Luca time the clock is ticking while they're they're interesting because the Luca clock is ticking and because they made an all-in trade for Kyrie and now they're now they got to keep him and I don't see where their other paths are to immediate improvements they are under the gun the clock is ticking you never know when the next Kyrie land mine is going to be detonated um but they have no choice but to keep him not that he has much of a market or if any anyway uh but Luca's one of the best players in the league exact that's that's enough for them to be interesting Luca's one of the best players in the league and there's at least should be some concern that his his patients could run out I don't see how you get around that why why wouldn't he be worried about where they are right now I have Mavericks I have Mavericks fatigue next that's fair that's you just lectured all the people who had a Dame speculation fatigue on the basis that Dame is really important I just like I don't I just it's fine I don't have an appetite for it right now if we give your next team I got you that's only fair um the only other one I had on my list because uh the Blazers were on the list initially from the original assignment before I realized we were going to going uh so deep on Dame today um the Phoenix Suns okay so I I listen to your pot and maybe it's been a couple of them that you've discussed the the the deal deal since it happened and I think you're more bullish sunish if you're not the bulls do you have to have a different uh stand in for that um you are brighter on the sun's future this is awful I'm sorry I apologize just awful you I'm telling you man I've been punchy from the beginning it all it's I went it's it's it all went sideways after the fence post um they they don't have draft picks forever and ever and ever they may never have draft picks again um they're they're they're now once this all goes away it's they're going to be we're going to have to label them as the most hopeless team in the NBA the way that the nets once were after the pierce garnet thing crashed and they had no picks and no no talent in no cap room boy that is not even glass half empty you just threw the glass on the floor and smashed the pieces can you let them try to win for a couple of years first I'm just saying eventually I'm just saying you know there there's listen we've seen this play before and I don't mean just the nets we've seen teams like kind of rashly go all in on questionably fitting stars who are paid of bazillion dollars I just of all the times to to take on to go this route this model this seems like the worst possible time to do it given what's coming in this CBA and all the restrictions and how difficult it would and I didn't you know you know this because we talked I think after the Durant acquisition sometime earlier in the season where I said like I'm not sold I kept saying I don't think they're the favorite immediately they're a favorite because I was concerned about all right how do they rebuild their bench and their defense and everything else and they picked up some guys off the buyout market and everything else but then the playoffs came and that supporting cast looked terrible they've now they've traded Chris Paul but they have not traded aton I kept waiting to see are they gonna are they going to cash out aton for multiple pieces to help replenish some of the depth easier said than done doesn't look like they're going that route looks like they're keeping aton at least for now um how do you how do you pull this I like I'm fascinated by this because of the lack of levers to pull and tools to use to build a sound team around Durant Booker and Beale and when you factor in the volatility meaning the health of at least two of those guys I'm fascinated to see how they how they do this on top of all that I I don't want to go too far with this but I it feels to me like there's a fairly muddled uh front office decision making lots of cooks in the kitchen situation going on there Isaiah Isaiah back um and by the way who who has that track record of just saying screw the salary cap we're just gonna acquire every big contract no matter how bad it might seem we we know who's done this before I don't want to talk too much about the sons because like you said I've talked a lot about yeah a lot about them since the Beale trade I think I just think they're going to be really good if they're healthy and yeah the depth will be an issue look for them to resign all their bird right guys and at tradable at prices that are precisely if they all want to stay if they all want to stay well if they're paid well enough they're all going to stay um and I if they're healthy applies to any team if those four dudes are healthy and I'm counting eight and because I don't think they're trading eight and right now and I think they could use a center whose I I think eight and is I think eight is better than his reputation and I know his reputation right now is at its lowest ever point I just think they're gonna be good I'm gonna give you some of the teams on my list you can pick one okay by our way then Milwaukee Bucks with Chris Middleton and Brooke Lopez heading into free agency and Janice up for a super max again not far from now the Chicago Bulls with decisions to make on the following players non-trade decisions so leave aside the Zach Levine noise that has been bubbling I owed to sum new Patrick Williams, Demard Derosen, Nicola Vuchovich, Patrick Beverly and Kobe White Resign all those guys are extended in Derosen's case you're up over 180 to 185 million over the second apron next season for a team that by the way am I allowed to throw up on this podcast I know that um our tourist carnage show of us has to speak publicly and praise his own players in this case a free agent in Vuchovich and when he speaks publicly is talking not only to the media but to his fans the Bulls fans to Bulls ownership to Vuch but that statement that he made the other day about how he thinks the Vuchovich trade worked out well for the Bulls is an all-timer I mean an absolute all-timer uh spoiler alert it went badly it's it's not it it did not work out well um it is ishtar of trades it's not it's not good uh go google it kids look it up it's not good I am HTA are and the Lonzo thing which is just really really sad that they expect them to be out the whole next season because as I've said many times before I will never forget watching that team fully formed in November of their first season together in staples what was then staples I think blow the doors off the lakers running prancing Lonzo shooting threes hitting ahead fast breaks just a fast athletic machine he tied them together and gave them an identity and without him they just don't they it's just kind of like oh tomorrow you should have been a ranger okay Zach you're turned around to pick and roll it's a Vuch post up it's just so slaggy like an attractive slaggy because those guys are still fun to watch but there's just no cohesive principle to like what they are as a team so that's one Toronto obvious I mean they've got siakum on an expiring and it'll be on an expiring perdals in free agency vamp leads in free agency if they resigned all those guys they're right where the bulls are in 24 25 at 180 185 million for a team that didn't make the playoffs last year um pick one of those teams I also have Indiana and Orlando because I just I can't I can't resist either one uh I think I feel about the bulls the way that you you felt about some of the the teams on my list that you just have no use to to talk about anymore like the bulls they're remember what I was saying earlier about like I want to see a team that has some conviction like there's some principles they had there's a it's a clear direction you know exactly what they're about whether it works or doesn't the problem with the bulls is that exactly what they were about was let's be the eighth seed and they haven't even managed to do that in a lot of these years since the voochetrade I never liked this all in to be in the middle thing and and that was the thing they pursued a plan that had a hard ceiling on it and we can say well if Lonzo it only stayed healthy and if Caruso that other that one season had stayed healthy fine sure there's a there's a certainly a better version of this if Lonzo's around but not by a lot I don't think I mean it was never going to put them up in Boston Milwaukee Philly territory or necessarily this season even in Cleveland and New York territory like I it just felt very uncreative uninspired it was it was a it was a a lurch to the middle it was it was a a plan designed with the only conviction being we need to be relevant again and we're locking into a bunch of players who are going to get us to be just good enough to be okay I just and it doesn't and to your point about if they're resigning everybody now they're paying a bazillion dollars just to be stuck in that same place because I don't I don't see where the upside is here at least with Toronto you still have the upside of Scotty Barnes and you still have you know maybe maybe the maybe the end-of-no-belief is still coming and and you have all these other don't laugh at me in my hope for the end-of-no-belief I just I may or may not have been referencing you no but you you've you've mentioned this and I do think like that's when you have a team with young talent and you're locking in okay at least you have the belief and hope that your young guys have another level to get to there is no new level for Zach Levine or DeMar de Rosen or a really signs Nick Levychovich at this point there just isn't is there a modern ishtar is it jeeley what was the name of the jail yeah that was the Ben Affleck movie yeah even that's already like 20 years ago now ishtar is like 40 or so like well now I don't go to the movies anymore so I don't know and then this pandemic disrupted movies is there like a historic bust of a movie in the last 10 years there must be there must be what the guy who played Tim Riggins Taylor Kitchen I think his name is who I absolutely love Tim Riggins we just started watching this about two weeks ago for the first treat you're in for a treat yeah it's much more soap operas than I thought it would be I hope you're not using that as a dirty word and if you disparage either Kyle Kyle Chandler Connie Britton on this podcast I love Connie Britton you will be hashtag banned from this podcast I wouldn't dream of coach and Tammy Tammy Taylor I bet you call him coach I bet if you saw Kyle Chandler in real life you would call him coach I don't maybe I would I don't know if I saw that if I saw anyone for if I saw Matt Sarasin walking down the street I would be star struck by Zach Guilford I think his name is awesome Minka Kelly the whole cast anyway how the hell did we talk about this oh he had a movie he was going to be the next big thing and he had like a superhero movie that busted out look I feel the bulls I'm sure I know I've heard they're hoping to get Vouchavitch back at a deal that won't make their fans vomit like three for 55 for 63 for 65 you cannot double down on Vouch de Rose and Levine no and put yourself in jail with this team going forward similarly another team on my list that I will not be labor I just keep saying this the biggest subplot in the NBA that not enough people are talking about is Paul George and Kauai Leonard with the Clippers be extension eligible in Kauai's case in July I think in Paul George's case in September because I just don't think based on what I've heard that if those guys walk in the door and as for four year max extensions I don't think the Clippers are just giving them to them I don't think so and I think there maybe like maybe on one or both I mean Kauai is a black box I have no idea what's going on with Kauai maybe in some quarters there would be a willingness to to recognize the reality that we don't play enough for this and there is negotiating wiggle room but sometimes with stars there isn't sometimes with stars you offend them by daring to negotiate and if that's the case then there's another wild card in the market as soon as next week because if you know like this is not an unknown to the powers that be in Los Angeles or with those representing those players this is not a unknown playing field so I just that that's another one where they're a level above the bulls obviously but I just don't think you can lock in eight combined years to those guys I definitely would not lock in to those two guys and I it is it is interesting to think about like what kind of pressure their their camps will we'll put on the Clippers because I you know you don't want things to get uncomfortable right you are trying to you know you're you're trying to hold this together just long enough to see if they get and stay healthy long enough maybe we finally get the payoff that we thought we were getting in 2019 when we went out all out to acquire them in the first place and so in the meantime you do you don't necessarily want to start pissing each other off and creating other kinds of tension I think the tensions already there though on some level I every time I've talked to people around the league about the Clippers the the one consistent thing is as the frustration level that has has just been boiling over over the last couple of years whether it's the coaches coaching staff and do you need to do is watch tie loose press conferences after games yeah oh no he's he's and that's why there was so much speculation how how often has there been speculation about a coach who was not a free agent about all these other teams that might get a cut it's for a reason because tyloo has made it very clear publicly and privately this is not you know this this is this is driving him crazy I think the whole organization's kind of like at that point right now and so I rode the aggregation roller coaster recently Zach it was not a pleasant experience heading into the draft I had been I was pretty confident the idea that Paul George was available and that's not breaking news I'd said that a few weeks ago on a on a locked on Clippers podcast and other people have been writing and tweeting about Paul George for last couple of weeks this is not exclusive information but I had mentioned something about it I think on like a podcast I did on like Friday morning so this is now after the draft that afternoon I had a new round of conversations with people around the league who were telling me at that point because I was I was working on this new story for gq and I got the sense that no they're at this point they're now kind of deciding they're just going to they're just going to roll it back they're going to see how it goes they're they're they're not you know yes they they they they thought about a Paul George for I guess I think that was a Paul George for Scoot pick right it was it was going to be something along those lines Paul which I kept saying Portland would never do so there was but there was at least on the Clipper side some discussion of that kind of maneuver right by Friday morning I was as I'm making this round of calls I'm hearing yeah no they're probably not going that direction now okay by Saturday one of the aggregators had clipped just the one quote I had on whichever podcast I had done on Friday morning before I'd had those calls saying our back says Paul George is on the market he's very available blah blah blah so by the time that that the aggregators throw that out there on Saturday I already have new information that's negating that it's such a such a weird time that we're in Zach where like part of this is us right we are we are putting out the information and the route and the the speculation the scuttle but as soon as as we hear it often and by the time the aggregation machine goes to work that stuff could be out of date so anyway all that said having heard both ends of this within the last few weeks Paul George is available Paul George is no longer available to your point I think like I'd be shocked if they were like firmly deciding we are not moving either of these guys if if an opportunity arises as the offseason unfolds starting Friday with free agency opening it will not surprise me in the least if they decided to move off of one of those guys it would it would surprise me a little bit just because I'm not I don't know if Paul George was available I really don't I my reporting is muddled on that to say the least because there's available in theory and actually available and there's a big difference into and I don't know where that landed if at all I also just like I don't know how any team trades a boatload of real stuff for kawaii Leonard like I just don't know Paul George has a bunch of like kind of random unconnected injuries a shoulder here or whatever the kawaii stuff is just seems to be building up of lower body injuries that never stop I'd be afraid I just don't know and he is so unknowable in terms of how he how and when he plays and I just don't I don't know how they trade them can we talk about Toronto for a sec yeah so I mentioned VanVleet he's obviously an unrestricted free agent I love the idea of him going to Utah Utah still has the Utah depending on what happens with Jordan Clarkson and Taylor Horton Tucker of player options could have a lot of cap space and I like the idea of an organizer going there I don't think there's a huge amount of interest in Fred VanVleet from Utah and that hasn't really been rumored I haven't got the sense that that's gonna be a thing but I like that idea because I think the jazz could be I like to John Collins trade for the jazz is just as a pure talent play the contract doesn't intimidate me I know they have two big guys in Lowry market and Walker Kessler fine you figure that out it's a talent play it's nice it's free free money if Fred VanVleet leaves I don't know what Toronto solution is at for like how are we running a functional NBA offense which by the way we kind of barely do anyway despite the fact that we have all these big name guys is Scotty Barnes really ready to be a full-time point forward is Pascal Siacum just gonna like dribble and the post-ups a hundred times a game and figure it out from there which by these fine at that it's not really a functional NBA offense that's a wild card to me and I don't know about you the Yaka Portal stuff is very strange to me I there's so much buzz around the league right now that oh is Toronto like not actually resigning Pertal is he like getable for like someone even mentioned like wouldn't it be funny if the spurs signed Pertal in free agency so we like traded for a Raptors pick and got the guy back as of right now June 27th I expect Yaka Pertal to go back to Toronto I think this is noise I don't know exactly why the noise is happening I would be a little surprise if he doesn't go back to Toronto but there is just I know everyone is tired of talking about the Raptors but the calendar alone the timetable of these contracts alone introduces so much volatility here because Siacum this is the last year of his contract if he stays in Toronto and makes an all NBA team he could be eligible for the super max again he barely missed this year as it is he's eligible for a mammoth extension that if they offered it to him I think he would sign it OGN and Obia as a player option for 24 25 he's turning that down he's not going to take that we all know that so he's an expiring contract they're just like all it Gary Trent just picked up his option I think there's an extension coming on the back of that there's just so much volatility here I don't know what direction they want to go to to me the guy that I keep coming back to is Siacum because the number on his salary is just going to be so huge that if you don't think he's that guy and if you don't think in the next two to three years we're going to be going to a place as a team that justifies that outlay of money and if we don't bring back Fred Van Vley it's hard to see how we get there it just feels too this is not reporting this is just logic common sense it just feels logical that that would be the the card to see what you can get something for and I know there's been a lot of Atlanta noise with Siacum I think there's some legitimacy to that but putting Trey Young plus Dejante Murray plus Pascal Siacum like that's that's three dudes that are going to be making like beyond the salary cap when you combine them all on their next deal so I don't I don't know there's just a lot of volatility with Toronto and they have a new coach why isn't Orlando a Fred Van Vley team you know they could be in Orlando is on my list because I cannot resist the Orlando magic ever if they if by the way did little little notice that the cap and the tax bumped up by like a non-trivial amount for the next season if they they can keep if they keep Isaac and they keep Foltz but they wave Gary Harris who has nothing guaranteed they could have 30 million dollars in cap room and you look at them you know like well Foltz is actually pretty good Wagner's awesome Bancaro's awesome Carter's good I guess they could use another starting level guard right I'm I may be forgetting someone I mean they just drafted jet Howard and Anthony Black so maybe those maybe one of those is a solutions hold up we'll see are they under oh jail and Suggs I forgot about jail and Suggs they have jail and Suggs so it's like it's not like they're dying at any position right I do think they're going to spend their money I do think they they saw themselves as a 500 team last year that would like to to get in the in the playoffs like in the back end of the playoffs or the play in I don't know what their target will be because if it's not a point guard this free agency class is not awesome which is why I keep coming back to one random name are you ready for what it is can't wait the amount of max streuse buzz right now is ridiculous and indicative of how weak this free agency classes and no disrespect to max streuse who's really good and as an ace shooter who moves his feet well and defense and his tough as hell hashtag heat culture so all are drafted all the teams max streuse is getting the mid-level exception there I think a few teams at the very least who would give max streuse the real the big mid-level exception Cleveland is a team that stands out to me is like an obvious need for a wing shooter all of those teams are looking around and they're scared that someone with cap room is going to trump that offer it's going to beat them just by a million or two a year that's all it takes I don't know who that team is some people think it's Indiana I don't I'm not sure it's Indiana they got a lot of guards and wings I would guess it's not Indiana who just drafted their power forward of the future and Jaris Walker and I think it's content to just kind of see what they have they'll dabble they'll dabble if they get another veteran not even a veteran I don't know if they want an older veteran but they'll dabble I wonder if it's Orlando whose koi is all hell if only because if you can't decide what position you really want to fill you just default to let's get a shooter in here because we never have shooting let's just see what it feels like to have a real shooter I don't know what they're going to do you like them for Van Ville I like the magic for Van Ville one of the interesting things in this in this league when your team like Orlando any of these young teams where like all right you've been you've been in the muck forever you finally hit on a couple of picks you have the outline of a team that that should be could be kind of is on the rise when do you press the gas pedal and say it's time to spend and on which players right and like is this the offseason where you say it's time to add some veterans to this core or do you do you give it a little bit more time to marinate you know Foltz and Cole Anthony like they're fine but I think the consensus around the league is that those guys are are best as like both of them as a third guard Foltz is also expiring it for this year I should I should mention that which could be a wild card here and it's great the way he's rebuilt his career it's fantastic but the magic you know have have at some point an urgency I don't know if it's right now but at some point there's an urgency say okay let's let's figure out how far this new core can go and what it needs and getting a point guard who pulls it all together and yeah especially like Van Ville like there's just so many teams over the last several years and you know over the course of his time with Toronto and the last time he was a free agent several years back where you look around you think like man how many teams could use a Fred Van Ville and not just because of a certain amount of skill the skill set but like natural leader outspoken smart dude great in the locker room character guy um plays hard it like every every especially a young team like that's the guy I want to pull it all together right and there and there maybe there's another version of that somewhere around the league he's the guy who's available right now it's it feels like the right fit to me interesting I don't know what's gonna happen when Fred Van Ville wouldn't surprise me if he went back to Toronto wouldn't surprise me if he's a rocket magic wind surprise I don't know I don't know I like the idea of him and you taught I haven't heard boo about that by the way we didn't really talk about this much on the John Collins thing are you at least a little bit surprised that that after 752 consecutive days of him being on the trade market that it's Rudy Gay in a second round pick I mean we but they blew it I mean this is like a classic case of like they tried to trade him for too long they waited agreed they waited till they were under such a financial crunch they had no leverage and after he had I want to make one of his worst seasons uh I'm I remain a believer he's got some issues as a player but I like John Collins but yeah I mean they there were multiple times where they could have or got close to getting a first round pick for him um including at the trade deadline two seasons ago with Sacramento there was a Harrison Barnes plus top five protected kings pick which wouldn't have conveyed because the kings ended up getting the fourth pick and picking Keegan Murray um you know member Collins was almost going to Phoenix before they got Durant I think Phoenix was going to send out they they were going to send out some kind of better draft compensation than was received here um but I mean this Atlanta had to do something because they got too much money they got to dig bay they want to pay they got Hunter on the wing they got they they have a Kongu and Kapella so it's just an unreal squandering of of an asset like whatever you think of his play his contract some you know you know there's there's always a little bit of of you know murmurings around the league about just what he's like to play with whatever whatever the concerns may be gotta get more than that and and maybe they couldn't at this late stage or maybe you just shouldn't take phone calls from Danny age well you know a team I heard at least had some relatively serious internal discussions about should we wait into the John Collins thing and I don't know if they contacted Atlanta or how serious it got was Milwaukee and that's interesting to me because I do think Milwaukee is looking around for like can we get a little just injection of randomness injection of like bounce and athleticism and just change maybe just change more than anything else but I don't think that went anywhere serious and I think Phoenix even looked at him again this time around he just doesn't have anything left after trading bill but the Milwaukee one is interesting because you know I bet pretty good money on Middleton going back to the bucks on a reasonable new contract the broke Lopez one is the one I can't figure out how much of a flight risk is he really is he actually going to like end his career potentially in Houston is he just going to take Houston's money and hope to end his career something else somewhere else is Houston that eager to just yes we need a starting center we're not going to start Shengoon and we just need to be competent so badly this year that we will pay 35 year old Brook Lopez all of this stuff is very confusing to me and when I'm confused I tend to default to the simplest solution which is he'll probably go back to Milwaukee but there it's it's a it's a strange one that's an Occam's razor kind of thing right yeah um I can't remember who had this conversation with the other table we were talking about the idea of Brook Lopez in Houston and just how quickly he would just completely lose his because of the way those young guys play but not a Fred Van leads there with them are veteran ex and veteran why it's a different equation right absolutely but if it's if it's him there with that back court and the way that they play and just how how just loose and unorganized and just everybody's just kind of in it for themselves like that would drive Brook Lopez up the wall he I'm pushing back on this I'm pushing back on this all in for Jabari Smith junior I think Jalen Green is going to be really good I know he's polarizing and he's frenetic and his defense has a long way to go I just think he's about the right stuff and I like I think he's going to be really really good I'm not as I'm higher on Houston's young core even excluding the Whitmore and Amin Thompson then most people are but yes youth is frenetic Brook Lopez is the opposite of frenetic and so it would be an odd match of Brook Lopez being like I'm dropping back in a pick and roll I got everything covered like all you got to do is do this and you do that a way you guys don't understand this like but email Doka will introduce I don't know you'll need to do some discipline I don't you know will be better don't be better I just thought it was funny there was this was you know somebody from another front office speculating on you know the Brook Lopez higher level potentially there anything else you want to hit on any of this uh I think I think we have hit um all the highlights I've it's June 27th yeah free agency begins it's it's 11.53 in the morning on June 27th I believe free agency quote unquote begins on June 30th at six Eastern time so how many hours is that away like 79 or something like that 78 whatever I it's too much math for me sounds about right it's it's it's close it's very close I can't keep track of where the of when free agency opens anymore because it used to be you just oh it's July 1st every year it's July 1st but it's July 1st in the east but it was actually nine o'clock Pacific and then the league to address that and also to give your network the chance to do uh cool TV shows about free agency opening moved it up but I thought it was nine Eastern six Pacific but now it's six Pacific so it's no six Eastern six Eastern two Pacific yeah that's really early you know what that is civilized civilized all of these like yeah we're going out to dinner with our free agency target at one in the morning is like what are we doing I don't I don't have to chase the news in in the roles I've played for various outlets over the last 10 years frankly but when I was at the New York Times and July 1st would hit and it was still the old when the clock turns to July at midnight Eastern and so you would be up and you're on you've got the phone and the computer and everything and you've got editors who are like well we might be able to make this addition at one a.m. if Dwight Howard decide or whatever it may be you sound like you're talking about the 1920s right now you realize that right thank you your desk phone rings and I've been scooped got a big A1 scoop uh Carmelo Anthony and got a big A1 scoop here and did I threw my fedora against the wall and I pulled out a flask of whiskey from my bottom drawer as I chomped on a cigar Carlos Booza put it on a front paid Carlos Booza leave in the calves it's tremendous uh all right well we got some time Howard Beck where where should we look for your stuff in the so in the coming weeks please brief us uh still gq sports gq.com uh still across the locked on podcast network but I think this is the first time I'll be saying this out loud on a podcast I hold on I got A1 scoop on how it back it is possible possible I may have my own podcast sometime soon somewhere keep stay tuned follow it I can't run that story that's not a story put it on the top of the business section instead of the top of the the front um we're getting close to something but it's it's too soon to say well that's great news uh we all love your content you're a valuable voice across the NBA ecosystem I will see you in Las Vegas and uh beverages will be had regrettable takes will be made and uh and headaches will be suffered the next morning um Howard Beck everybody I'm scouring teaky bars as we speak thanks for having us back