Ramona Shelburne on Giannis, Harden, Golden State, and the Lakers

Welcome to the low post podcast on a Friday morning bright and early in Los Angeles, California. I'm not in Los Angeles. It's not that bright or early where I am, but Ramona Schoenburn, a woman who knows everything and is kind enough to come on this podcast and talk about everything in the NBA from James Hardin to Joelle B to Yarnis Ramona. It's 738 in Los Angeles. How are you? You know what? I've been up for like an hour because I have somehow my, one of my children is an early word and every morning at like six o'clock, he says, Mommy, it's time to get up and I said, No, it's not. But this is life now. So I get up really now. There is a lot going on in the NBA and I really wanted to have you on because you're always talking. You're always talking to people. You got information. Talking to Jackson. Talking text in which is really just modern day talking. Correct. No. Like I have friends who are like, yeah, I talk to so and so a lot and I'm like, you never actually talk to that person. You just text that person. That's not talking. That doesn't count. To me, that doesn't count as talking. I was intended to have you on to talk about your massive James Hardin piece from last week, which was outstanding, despite James Hardin's criticism of the piece online, which was spirited, let's say. But I think I said this two weeks ago and it happened again and I think we have to start with Yannis because I think despite all his drama about the Sixers and the Blazers and Dame and Hardin, Yannis, a doubling down on the 48 minutes podcast with our old friend Bruce Bernstein and Ross Geiger who used to work for the bucks and is close with Yannis and Michael Freer said, once again, if I don't sense that this is a winning situation, I'm not signing an extension here and I'm willing to go elsewhere. I love Milwaukee. We'd love to stay in Milwaukee for the rest of my career, but dot, dot, dot. And if you talk to people within the bucks, they'll be like, yeah, we, this is like we all knew this already. This is not new to us. We know the pressure. We're under. We know the timetable of his contract. We know how disappointing last season's playoffs were. We know that he's going to hold our feet to the fire. I don't know about you. I'm surprised how out there he is saying this and I worry personally on the bucks behalf that I just worry whenever a team with high expectations is playing an entire season with this Anvil hanging over their head. Every three game losing streak becomes like a referendum on the future of the team. Every injury, every, it does Chris Middleton have another two, three week absence and what does that mean for the team drew holiday is extension eligible in the middle of the season. Like that will be a talking point until it's not a talking point anymore. If I'm, and this is why I timed a heart in like I said this a couple of weeks ago, if the sixers could just ever get their together, I'm looking at the bucks and I'm like there, I'm a little nervous for them. I'm looking at the Celtics and I'm like slightly that nervous is too strong because they're going to be amazing as long as the J's are healthy, but they got to reinvent themselves a little bit. They got a lot of centers with three centers, three other top seven guys are centers, all either old and or injury prone. I just, I, what is your reaction, let's start here. What is your reaction to the Yannis stuff in general? So I always view superstar statements like this superstar statements on my future in comparison to other superstar statements on my future, okay? And there are a few in recent memory who I think have handled this very poorly or just left things to be a big mess. And I think in a way, Yannis being very on message, like I feel like when somebody starts to repeat the same Burbage, like I only want to be there if we all want to be on the same page and win a championship, like he's clearly workshopped that answer. Like that is going to be his answer, his coded language for I am not going to stay if we don't have a championship team, okay? And I kind of like that he's on message A, because we're going to keep getting this same answer now. He's made this pretty clear. And B, it gives us clarity, it gives everyone in Milwaukee clarity, it gives everyone in the lead clarity. This is what Yannis is thinking about. He's not bluffing, he's not just trying to get attention. This is where his head is, adjust accordingly, adjust your plans accordingly. And compare that Zach to like Kevin Durant when he was with the Warriors. Compare that to, well, Kevin Durant when he was with the Oklahoma City Thunder. There's probably only three or four guys who fall into this category of too good to trade. Like, I think Kevin Durant was too good to trade in Oklahoma City, too good to trade with the Warriors. Yannis, in my mind is probably too good to trade, like you have to just play it out with him as long as you can and then hope for the best and for the agency. But I don't know, we'll see how the bucks end up handling this, but as you mentioned before, I think people in Milwaukee knew that he felt this way, knew this was coming. We're planning for it. We can talk about whether or not the Mark Lazarie selling part of his ownership stake was, you know, maybe had this thought process in mind or had this in the back of his head, okay? But I think probably, I think as a contingency, I think that probably entered his calculus a little bit. It has to, but let's, let me, I went and looked this up of like ages of the bucks players. I mean, this is, this is a team that, you know, you have drew holidays, what, 33 for Glopas, 35. I mean, this is an aging roster. And if you get to the other comparison, I think is Steph Curry, who fits this category of superstars, who's way too good to trade, the Warriors have never let Steph get anywhere close. So one year that we even started asking this question is of, of what are they going to do if this team is not good enough for Steph to win? How would Steph handle this? They got good again real fast, right? There was, there was two lean years. They were in the lottery, but it was because of injuries and they bounced back so quickly that it wasn't an issue. And now Steph has locked up long term. And they have doubled down on the guys who seem to give Steph a chance to win. The new Lebemirac Academy's initiative to hold in financial support completely into both persistence and From slack. So one year after the game, it just got so long that you haven't marinied them to the show after five years. You know? I mean, a really big kiss, but then it, uh, when you have a moment of grace because you love the sisters. Well, it is very, very, very keeping distance from the guests. It's very, it's very, very common. And then the second thing, Mike signing off to me is I mean, I bet I kind of다는 to me, what am I to do with that. Let me tell you something, young shirtless Brad Pitt and Thelma and Louise. Woo! Oh. All right. We've really... We know all about young Brad Pitt and that look. Okay. Warriors. So the Warriors are in anomaly, right? Yeah. Like what's happening to the bucks and you said you looked at all the ages of their players and you saw a lot of threes. Everyone's 30 year over of the key guys. You know, you've got younger guys like Connidton who's not that young, but Grayson Allen and I bow shampoo see what he becomes. But the core guys are 30 plus 35 and Brooke Lopez's case. Chris Middleton, 32. Yeah. They're all... And, you know, and the bucks have traded a whole bunch of draft picks to build this team, which has robbed them of the ability to get young players into the pipeline. And they have one first round pick left to trade this season. We're going to talk about that later, either 20, 29 or 20, 30 and I think those picks will be valuable. But this is generally what happens to great teams. You trade the future for the present. This is why LeBron James cycles from team to team to team because as soon as he's on the team, they're trading the future for the present. And then when the future, the present team Peters out, he's got to find another team that has enough assets to build a real winner around him. The warriors are an anomaly because in the span of what two years or three years, they drafted three Hall of Fame players that are all roughly the same age and they've kept in together the whole time, which has given them at least a fighting chance to stay relevant and in the championship picture for longer. Dirk is the norm. What happened to Dirk and Dallas is the norm. What happened to Kobe in Los Angeles, now they had the power sort of resurgence, but the end was kind of depressing. Like, that's the norm for a guy who's a one team guy. You mentioned the Durant precedent in Oklahoma City and I totally agree with you. That was the correct play by Oklahoma City to just say, this guy is going to be one of the 10 to 15 graze players of all time. We're not trading him. I honestly think this is just my educated gut and it's way too early. Let's flash forward this season and say the Bucks lose in the conference finals, which I think would count as a failure for Yannis for this whole like we got to be all in on winning. Now, maybe it's a seven game or it's competitive, but that's short of where the Bucks want to get. Speaking of failure, by the way, do these Yannis comments about we got to be all in on winning? Is it okay now to say that the Bucks season last year was a failure or is it still steps to success? Can we just call it what it was? It was a failure. We didn't exactly line up the messaging from his postseason press conference. Whenever they workshop whatever his line was going to be in addressing his future, didn't line it up from last season press. I said it at the time. I was like, why are we soft peddling around this? You guys lost an horrible fashion in the first round. So let's say that that happens. Then you get to the off season. He's got one guaranteed left your left on his contract. Everyone that you just mentioned is one year older. He has already told you that if I don't think this team can win big, win all the way, I'm going to go somewhere else. If you ask if that all of that plays out just as I said, conference final second round, whatever you think is a disappointing Bucks season. I think they actually might trade him. And I think part of the reason why Yannis is being so out there about this is almost doing the Bucks a favor in that sense that they will have that clarity that you mentioned. I don't, I'm not like more than 60 40 on this. It's way too early. There's a million things that can happen between now and then injuries could happen, et cetera. My gut says if this goes badly this season, they will not just bury their head in the sand and play it to the end just because he's too good to trade. And he is too good to trade. He's 28 years old right now. And he's one of three to four guys max who for any given year can be the best player on earth. I just, and I can tell you this, I mean, you know as well as I do, all the teams with stuff and all the teams with markets that he might want to go to in their view anyway are already prepping for this potential reality. I think we're going to see teams maybe keep their powder dry in season in anticipation of this. And I'll tell you the other the other quote unquote winners here if this goes this way and it's too early to say that. The Pelicans have the Bucks pick in 2025 if it's top four and unprotected in 2027 and swap rights in 2026. All of a sudden those picks which were kind of afterthoughts for a little bit look important. The Nix have the Bucks pick in 2025 if it's five to 30 which actually is probably a little bit less protection than the Pelicans would want on it since they own one to four the Nix on five to 30. That becomes a much more valuable asset now than it was before again if all of this doesn't go to fruition. I actually want to start here before we go to the fakie honest trades. I mentioned that one pick the Bucks have at their disposal. If I'm them and I got a win the title this year in my view that's the pressure I'm putting on. We either got to make the finals and and and convince them that this team is legit for a couple more years or win the title in which case maybe honest signs like a one plus one or something shorter term like, Drew Chris Brooke. I think we got another year to win us all re up shorter term. I'm looking at that pick and I'm looking at Grayson Allen's expiring deal plus Pat Conninson. Grayson Allen plus Bobby Portis and trying to find a 15 to 20 million dollar player who helps my team more than those guys. The problem is all of those guys are good. Bobby Portis just got off team USA he was one of the six many of the year candidates last year. Grayson Allen's expiring. Grayson Allen's a decent player. His expiring contract in this new CBA regime where everyone's paranoid about hitting the apron in the cap. That's a valuable trade ship. So it's actually hard to find a player who is worth what could be an enormously valuable pick. A decent rotation player on a decent contract. That's enough of an upgrade to justify that kind of outlay. But I think they will try and do that and I have some names if you want some names. Yeah, I want some names. I mean, I was as you were talking my mind was pinging through Bobby Marx's salary cap sheets. But what you you've clearly thought about this and I like it. So I said this in the in Maine in June. I don't know when the hell they need some help in the back court, right? Is that what you're thinking? I think just I think at this point just give me some talent. And so I think that was there. They kicked the tires on John Collins who got traded to Utah for nothing really. Maybe that's a name. I think boy on Bogdanovich and Detroit is an interesting name for a lot of contenders. He's on a short and semi expiring deal. His shooting. I think could it be interesting. Dorian Finney Smith. Like I think you know, you might hear those names as if those guys are on your favorite team. If you're a net fan, if you're a jazz fan, if you're a pistons fan and say really if one first round pick. And you know, decent player that 2029 first round pick if it's unprotected is going to be considered very, very valuable around the league because of the uncertainty of the bucks future. Norm Powell came to mind, but the Clippers have a bunch of bunch of balls in the air. Let's say the Andre Hunter, just like if the Hawks want to get off his contract. And a guy that he might not be worth this package, but to your point about what kind of player are they missing? An organizer, a legit point guard on a team that's not trying to win. I might look at Tyas Jones if I were them from Washington via Memphis. I think I think the bucks are going to be pretty active on that particular market to try to get one more thing and really make a better and deeper run at it this year. That's a good call. Yeah, I think they have to be right and and that's what clarity gives you. So the other guys that fall into that. Too good to trade. We have to just play it out. Would be LeBron in each place he left essentially right Cleveland the first time Miami and then Cleveland the second time. And I actually that LeBron each time did a better job. The first time in Cleveland obviously didn't do a great job messaging there. You know, when you go back to that decision. But in Miami, I thought like they went to the finals that year's act like the year he left they went to the finals. I remember being in Miami for those finals. And I think the uncertainty around his future run over that team like an inville. It's just that they were so talented and the east was so kind of bereft of true rivals to them that they made the finals anyway. And that might actually be the best comparison right like the Miami LeBron leaving. We he ended up getting a better option right Cleveland was younger had some stars and then was willing to trade for Kevin love etc. But I think when you look at the last year he left Cleveland. Do you remember the press conference he had which was just an absolute master class of a press conference where there was 25 things for him to address. And I remember him saying all right guys this is how it's going to go. You're going to go through all the topics that you want to ask me about. And once we hit the topic we're not going to go back to it. So if you ask me about my future I'm going to give you my answer there. But don't ask me about my future 25 minutes later. Okay. We're going to give that answer we're going to stand that topic and then we're going to move on to the next topic. And I was like wow like you who's running this thing. Okay. Not the media I guess. Not the media and it was really impressive and he had. He had a great answer that I'm sure he workshop with his advisors. And it was the first time he answered that question that year. And when asked about it again later throughout the year he was pretty honest. And when LeBron left Cleveland the second time they also went to the finals and lost. But there were no hard feelings. And I think that's kind of what Yannis has done here which is. He framed the discussion like he just took. An interview with Tanya Ganguly from the New York Times and then a 48 minutes podcast with. One of his former assistant coaches when early in his career and then our friend burst burst Bernstein. And just grab the mic and said this is how it's going to be. And I think because we have this clarity the conversation you are having about either fake Yannis trades or what do the bucks do. I would like to suggest another thing the bucks could do because you're you're looking at things they can do to improve the roster. That don't include trading Yannis right. Or their core for for this particular. This particular here. What if you do trade some of the core. What if you look at Drew holiday who is extension eligible and will give you some feedback on whether. He wants to sign that extension or become a free agent. What if they're third or fourth in the east and Drew is not willing to sign or commit long term. Do you look to trade him. You can get I don't know how much you get if he's he could theoretically be a free agent. But you look to trade Chris Middleton once he becomes available to trade you call Houston. So you had interest in Brooklyn has then do you do. Do you have interest in him now and just. Re-acquire some assets just build back up the asset pile and then try to take another swing next summer. What what are you suggesting happens to Yannis in that scenario because if I'm if I'm him. That's a tough that's a tough sell given Milwaukee with cap space is not going to be a draw for free agents probably although with him it might be different. Well I mean look at look at what that feels like pulling that feels like pulling the plug on the whole thing to me. I think that that is similar that the Lakers were in a very. I don't say similar it was different but but another boxed in situation last last year when they had Westbrook who was expiring with the giant number. You mostly had to incentivize somebody to take his contract by by either giving up an asset or being willing to take on a lot of money. And they were able to do it they were able to completely redo that team by trading one you know I wouldn't call rest one of their big three but in the way the team is constructed salary cap wise he was he was a significant piece. I think you would find value for any of those guys in their core and you use that to either get a young player that can help you that's more on Yannis. This is timeline to get more draft picks or I mean Houston has a million draft picks if that's the way they want to go. There's a lot of teams that are sort of pivoting from the I can we have the nice young team him to we should probably start winning now. We can't keep being in the lottery there's a couple of those teams I think Orlando or maybe or Oklahoma say that I don't know how long. How much longer are they going to talk about those teams don't worry. There's a lot of interesting ideas where you somehow you can get you can get younger and you could reacquire some assets if you're willing to break up the core around him. It's a dangerous play but it's a creative play and I don't know I like I kind of like that concept better because there's a market for all those guys. Go the other way with me. What teams should we just be watching if if this I mean this is like this is an earthquake like if this happens. Can you imagine if both he and Joelle and be get on the trade market at the same time like that's that's those are things like everybody puts plans on hold for those kind of guys. What teams would you be watching I mean and we did this dance before he signed the extension the last time when they traded for Drew holiday and he and convinced him to stay. So some of the teams that we did this dance with last time will be will be in this discussion again but who would you be looking at. The top three that come to mind are the nicks because they really do have a lot of assets the big it's a big market and they've you know they've sort of kept. They didn't make that dot of a Mitchell trade they have some interesting interesting young players they have a lot of pigs. I think they're very well positioned Brooklyn's very well positioned as well if they they could convince him to want to sign their long term. But every but this is where market matters right because if he's either a pending free agent like you don't give up everything if you don't know he's going to stay there long term. I think the Lakers have to be in that discussion I don't know what the hell they would trade for him. But they they have to be in that discussion they have now some good contracts of interesting young players that they either drafted and developed or signed as a free agent developed looking at Austin Reeves there. There's Jared Vanderbilt who are Dave McMahon and just reported signed a nice a nice team friendly contract extension. There's like I think the nicks and the Lakers pop to the front of my mind and then of course you have to bring up my I mean I mean it just that's the team that's whenever there is a star that may become available you have to bring up the heat. So I think those three are the first ones you first ones you start with I would say the warriors I just because of. There's obviously there's a relationship with him and Steph Curry they know each other etc and there's a synergy there but I don't know how they would get that done or how those timelines match up but that's an interesting one to bring up as well. I'm sure you come up with a lot of a lot of the player where I don't care about the timelines matching up he's just like I just like want to get him up. So a couple a couple of all of those teams you mentioned are in my in my big big long list of teams and it will be long if it ever would come to fruition. What the nicks have going for them is they can return that twenty twenty five bucks pick two Milwaukee the second part of it and you know if you're the bucks you want. Picks from the team that gets Yannis are not that appealing because that team is probably going to be very good because Yannis will be on it. The idea of getting picks from teams who are not that team from third teams including yourself as the box is an interesting one. The nicks issue is I just don't know what the blue chip talent is if any that they have you know are the bucks that excited about RJ Barrett or Emmanuel quickly is extension eligible right now. Lakers they're just handicapped by the lack of picks. They have the they owe the pick to New Orleans which New Orleans can kind of screw the Lakers by deferring it from twenty twenty four to twenty twenty five. They owe the pick to Utah in twenty twenty seven which turns over immediately so they can after the draft they could trade twenty nine and thirty one. Is that enough. I don't know Brooklyn. Brooklyn's got picks from everywhere right and again that that goes to what I was saying before of like I can I can I get a son's distant pick. Instead of the pick that from the team that Yannis is going to the problem with Brooklyn is if I'm Yannis McCale bridges has to be on the nets. If I go there this is the Durant thing over and over again in that like whatever if you're looking for a team. The teams got to have a lot of young assets and picks are like at least one blue chip young player and picks that it can shove out the door and still have enough. With now talent on hand for Yannis to think I can win the championship immediately with this group that's a hard balance to strike we saw with Katie. And if there's no McCale bridges there like I'm not that interesting going to Brooklyn and if there's no McCale bridges in the trade. Am I that interested if I'm the bucks warriors were linked to Yannis the last time there was a lot of noise in the media about that they owe this pick to now Boston top four protected this year. After that pick conveys they can trade 26 28 they owe this weird top 20 protected 20 30 pick to the wizards they can trade the top half of that they have some interesting young players they would try to get involved I'm sure can I give you just rapid fire some other one yeah go I like it. I mean New Orleans has Milwaukee's picks. I don't even want to say what I say. Like let's just say Zion is not working out yeah the same. You can say it people have definitely said that. Toronto but but then I bring up but then I bring up the counterpoint of always if he could be a free agent would he give them any kind of long term commitment that he would want to go to New Orleans. Yeah no this is this is a mark I mean like look Oklahoma City in Houston and particularly Oklahoma City have everything any team could possibly want including like pick your pick. You don't want our picks because we're going to get a superstar in this trade you want to clip you want some clippers picks. You want to pick short whatever team you want to short because we got picks from everybody. Is he is he going to go to Oklahoma City is any superstar ever going to choose Oklahoma City. Maybe I don't know so maybe somebody will. When I look at that I keep coming back to the thunder to for every single superstar who may be on the move which is. If you're a superstar and you say that you want to win and you're looking at that roster with shake it with. I want to play with that dude like I want to play with that dude and all the other assets they have like you really could they have enough assets and they have a superstar already there in SGA that they can build a super team tomorrow if they have the stomach for trading for whoever and hoping they want to stay. And they have three at least three legit very enticing prospects that a team could talk themselves into being multi time all stars. If you're high on Josh getty that's what you think he's going to be if you're high on wing jail in Williams that's what you think he's going to be if you're high on shed homerun that's what you think he's going to be where I like like they could have a couple of those guys left over yeah after a big trade. It's just note they have no history of drawing superstar talent there voluntarily I mean Paul George did get traded there and extend and then ask for a trade very quickly not that quickly a couple you get a couple years yeah. And there they historically have tried to get players who are under longer term contracts Toronto. I mean the same reason that Scotty Barnes was the first name I mentioned when Durant became available. They have after this draft assuming they convey this pick they owe the spurs a top six protected pick for the jack of portal assuming that conveys they then control all their draft picks going forward after the 2024 draft which would become a landmark event in this case because a lot of these picks become tradable or a lot of these obligations are erased after that draft. You know and you have yeah if I like if you're the raptors for instance and you've been tied to him before although I I did unearth an old clip of them. Yannis going on surge obokas are you hungry show yeah and surge obaka asked him true or false will you ever play for the raptors surge was on the rapid. Wow go search and Yannis said false but it was it was delivered kind of flip like if I asked you like true or false will the warriors win two more championships. During dream on green's career you would like I might just say false it doesn't necessarily mean yeah I'm a hundred percent you know false but it. That was one Miami I've got it's just a matter of the same issue they're facing with them right now is their package is not super duper enticing. You mentioned Orlando yeah they're like one of these sleeping giant markets where players like Orlando. Yeah a lot of people a lot of famous people have retired like built homes in Orlando. Yeah your favorite golfer live there right not not my favorite golfer. Yeah but I don't I don't really know very many golfers. My favorite golfer is the guy he might you know what I'm not because I just don't know if this guy's a bad guy but I like remember the guy who smoked on the course. Not John daily the other was another guy who smoked on the course I like that guy. Orlando at some point has got to put the pedal to the metal and if they could ever make an offer for a star. That didn't include Palo Bancaro and friends and Franz Wagner. And they have like all their picks they have a Denver pick they have all their seconds literally all of them they have jail and Sugs Anthony black jet Howard like they can overwhelm you with stuff. Look I I think it would be awesome if you honest state in Milwaukee his entire career I love visiting Milwaukee. So let's hope none of this this is all just goes in the dustbin of history and the bucks have an amazing season and he decides he wants to stay. But I just I could continue to be surprised even if this is not news to the bucks brain trust. That he is decided to go out there this it's not even aggressive is not the right word I it would just be easier to say I'm going to talk about this. After the season I want to win this season I want to focus all in on this season I'm just a little surprised that's all. You know I'm surprised because we so often get passive aggressive answers or no answer or no clarity. And I guess if I'm if I'm a bucks fan I don't like hearing this of course but I sort of appreciate the clarity. I like when guys are clear and I and he is given the organization the fan base clarity of what he's thinking and how they should be thinking and adjusting and it sort of empowers them to make moves. Whereas if you if you played at the Durant way right in Oklahoma City I'll never forget that that Lee Jenkins article for sports illustrated where it was like right and around. I mean I really think when I read that sort of like oh he's staying. He's staying. Well that was like a couple of weeks before that he left. So here's a one man sample size for you of a bucks fan I met in Prague in in over vacation. How did you know he was a bucks fan bucks shirt or you know he came up he came up to me and I was like what's your team. Who's your team. And this was like two days after he honest had made his comments to the New York Times and Tony Ganguly. And I said man you get what do you think he's like you know what. Me and my friends were all resigned to the possibility and the guy won a title here and and like if he if he decides he wants to leave he's going to be beloved forever. Winning in his championship starved city just gives you license to do whatever you want not that you don't have it to begin with. But I don't think there would any be any resentment from bucks fans if it went this way but let's hope let's hope it does. Yeah I mean that's that's LeBron and Cleveland the second time. He brought a championship to Cleveland he played every single minute not minute every single game with that season played all 82 and all the playoff games. He left every single bit of himself out on that court even though they lost in the finals. There can be no hard feelings and the cabs ended up being in a in a pretty decent place pretty quickly afterwards. At the Home Depot Saturdays are about two things getting your party game ready with bespoke customizable refrigerators and football with an innovative 32 inch touchscreen boat right into the refrigerator door right in the door. You'll never have to take your eyes off the game while you're prepping your favorite football snacks I like snacks. The refrigerator screen can do it all you can schedule your next tailgate on the calendar check your doorbell cam search for your favorite recipe without leaving the kitchen. The beverage center has a beverage center makes staying hydrated for the game easy hydrated by the way for the game easy thanks to a pitcher built right in that refills itself this feature packed smart refrigerator can't be beat just like your team whoever your team is upgrade your Saturday with the Home Depot and Samsung how doers get more done. This episode will be presented by Shopefy. Did you know that 10,000 German companies already use Shopefy? The commercial platform as a complete solution. With which you can build your own company, start, drive and build. With Shopefy you can easily get your own online shop. Also without any knowledge in programming or design. Test Shopefy costs and bring your business ID in the world. Go to Shopefy.de, Shrek Strich Podcast 23. Stefe, Klee, Steve Kerr, whatever surrounding talent you want to put. Why can't we win too? They resigned Dremont to a very reasonable extension, traded Jordan pool and a first-round pick for Chris Paul. Gary Payton the second presumably will be healthy after not being healthy when they got him last year. Moses Moody's a year older. Jonathan Komingas a year older. Which is good. These are all reasons for optimism. Klee Thompson is extension eligible now. Two more titles. If I set the over under at number of Golden State Warriors titles during the remaining years of Stefe Curry's career. Let's define it as Stefe Curry's career because Stefe is the franchise. If I set the over under at 0.5 titles. Ramona Shelburn, are you taking the over or the under? If you set it at 2, I'm taking the under. I'll tell you that. I'm taking the under if it's 2. I will take the over. You set it at 0.5. I think they get one more. Five is a big one. Those of us who keep track of these things. If you're at 4, there's a lot of guys with 4. A lot of superstars, a lot of hall of famous. All these hall of famous. If you want to be that next rung up, you've got to get to 5. And that's where you get magic and Kobe. And LeBron still, you know, that's where that's where that 5th title really matters. Now Michael with 6. That's I don't know if they get there. I think that's that's harder. LeBron still trying to get there. Obviously like that's a. That's the next mountain that you can even talk about. But. I think they get one. I don't know how they get it. I just think that they're. They still have a really good team. They're going all in this year. There's. Reason to believe they will be good for two or three more years. And they have some interesting young players where. They either get better and contribute or they get good enough. They can use them to trade for something better. The only thing that gives me pause is the new CBA. Is this idea that they can't they they literally cannot keep. That budget they literally cannot keep paying all that luxury tax. And be a functional team in this league, right? It's it's it's it's not just about whether your owner is willing to pay all that. It's you have no maneuverability if you are. And every single team that has deep pocketed owners like this. As sort of hit that reality check with the new CBA and all the restrictions it puts on your team. Well and except for except for the sun. They really kick in next year or this this July one when the calendar NBA's calendar turns over because that's when. You have limitations if you're over the second apron like you can't aggregate players in trades which is I mean I don't think. Even some front office executives are when I go out to drinks or whatever with them or like. Boy that one who we're kind of still coming to grips with that one that's a big one. To your point so I will answer my own question. Look far be it for me to argue with Stefan Curry. One of the greatest players of all time dream on green is a let me let me say this clearly dream on greens of Hall of Famer today right now. We'll be in Hall of Fame Clay Thompson's on my all time fair players Hall of Fame. These guys have achieved more in a small span of life than I will achieve in my entire life. That's my preface I'm taking the under on zero point five. I just I just think when winning a title is really really hard and they're getting all I could they win one absolutely I was super high on them two years ago and they paid me off with the championship win. They still I still believe in the fundamental greatness of this core the synergy they have together the system that they play being so different from the way everybody else plays. Staff of course being the fulcrum of everything they do. I think they're a contender this year I think they're an inner circle contender this year I like the Chris Paul trade. I like all the stuff I said before about moody coming up a I think Dario Sarach will help them you was fantastic for Croatia shout out Croatia in the offseason pre Olympic free. It's like the pre pre pre pre pre pre you really sucked for several years qualifying tournament to get into the qualifying tournament to get into the qualifying tournament for the Olympics. I think they can win the title this year if you're just asking me like if you ask the computer simulate the next ten seasons a thousand times I would bet you zero is the most common answer between zero one two and three which is seems insane so I'm going to go I'm going to go under but I do think they got a shot. You mentioned the CBA. What can you tell us about clay Thompson's extension extension situation if anything yeah so there are there are two of that core that. Don't have their long term futures secured right Steve Kerr is another one we we should we should mention that to. I think last year when there were some discussions around Steve Kerr and whether he wanted to extend or whether they want how much they would pay him to extend. They were short conversations yes they want him back but the number that that they discussed was not in the ballpark yet and I think that number will actually be. Close to where they land because of the contract money William signed and the contract great pop of it signed that coaching market has been reset and so I think Steve Kerr if he wants to stay will get what he wants to get. Clay Thompson is a is a really interesting story. He is a very valuable player even with as much money as he makes right now on an expiring deal right he's he's great in terms of their optionality and and the way that they decide to build the seem going forward. My understanding is that they have opened contract extension talks with clay Thompson that this is a slow process so this idea that okay he's been eligible for a while and they haven't done anything but no they've started talking they've exchanged proposals it's been. There's been no hurry to these discussions I think the optionality goes both ways not necessarily like he's trying to leave but just the optionality of he didn't have a great year last year so it behooves him to have a great year this year and he becomes more valuable if he does. Behooves I say behooves behooves it's a good word. I'm curious where they end up with that they they are definitely open to the idea of doing because they've opened discussions with clay Thompson. I think the years will probably be similar to what drain drain on green sign which was a four year deal I think it'll probably be similar that you know what what I don't know where they'll land on team option player option yada yada yada but the timeline town similar the money is going to be the question and how that fits with the new CBA the new. The restrictions that implies there is I know that the warriors feel very strongly about keeping clay Thompson and drain on green alongside Steph Curry and it's the warriors who feel that way but that this that place they arrived at is in strong consultation with Mr. Curry. I would say I know Steph feels that way to with the colleges with apologies to the lake of family I cry no tears for their money and if I'm Steph Curry in particular I lose no sleep over their money because I built it I Steph Curry without me there is nothing there's no chase center there's no gazillion dollar arena deal you have not what did they buy the words for four hundred million dollars or something at the time at the time of record price it's now worth god knows how much that's him so if I'm Steph Curry I'm going into Joe League of I'm like look man you can nickel and I need to do if you want I I just don't want to hear it I don't want to hear about it pay them and if I'm if I'm the warriors to your point about clay I put into the drain on green contract and just say look this is what Dremond did it's twenty two twenty four twenty six or twenty eight or something like that a year twenty two twenty four twenty six and then twenty eight player option that's a that's a fair baseline to say. Start with a player of what what clay has done for your franchise and so I've heard clay has had a fantastic offseason yeah in terms of his workouts and his conditioning particularly compared to the last off season when he was coming off injury to that was scared to pick up games and didn't do anything because he was scared and understandable so it's a very human thing yeah that's really got hurt the last time so he he didn't do any pick up games they held him back in training camp because he didn't and I've heard he said a good offseason and to me I think he's the most important player on their team because I know what Steph is I know even in his diminished scoring state I know what Dremond is and I know I have faith in his passing and more than faith in his defense I I the young guys will see what they do loony we know what he is wiggins he's as rock solid as it gets clay is the wild card if they get good clay and they did not get good clay in the playoff specifically particularly against the lakers I think they can win the championship if they get B minus clay I don't think they can and I think he is one of the most important players in the league this season I think he's their swing player you can point to the young guys yet they need more you know and really the commingle one is interesting because there's there's clearly been some stuff in terms of trust level between him and the coaches there's some stuff with you know what is it mean that his jumper is shaky and he can't play the three next to Dremond and loony and almost can't even like play super duper amount of minutes next to either of those guys I think he could play next to Dremond more I mean even even Dremond and loony I looked it up yesterday they only played a hundred and seventeen minutes together in the playoffs in eleven games and only twenty seven against the lakers like when the going got tough the warriors decided when when Anthony Davis took over the entire court on defense and obliterated their spacing the warriors decided we can't play these two guys together and in fact they struggled whenever they had two non shooters on the floor like Dremond and Peyton Dremond was good you can screen and roll that's why I looked at I look at moody as a really interesting piece for them this year because they tried the step clay moody wiggins Dremond lineup they dabbled in it late in that lake or series when it was clear that Anthony Davis was going to destroy any lineup that had Dremond and Peyton Dremond and loony Dremond and commingle Dremond and loony Dremond and loony Dremond and loony Dremond and loony Dremond and loony Dremond and loony Dremond and loony Dremond and loony Dremond and loony Dremond or coming into new and play really Dremond and any other non shooter that's like sorry he's interesting to me frankly as a wild guard for them do you think Chris Paul starts or comes off the bench For how long we shall see I'm gonna go I think he comes off the bench to start the season but I think he starts portions of the season When someone's hurt, when they decide we want to play small ball today and bring loony off the bench So who does he start for? This is the question I keep asking you be like if he if Chris Paul starts Yeah, and you're you your reaction to you just made a noise like whoo. I know I that's the noise I would make because I think this is a potentially delicate training It's like you pastive curl those millions, right? If this if he starts who in their starting five, which was one of the best line-ups in the entire NBA last year Who is coming off the bench? Yes, wigs come off the bench. No, do you ask loony to come off the bench always ask loony loony always gets the okay You go off the right. He's the guy. Yeah, loony might be picking up like dry cleaning as favors for people I Think it's got to be I think it's got to be loony. I think that's the only answer Clay would be a really interesting answer that would be But it's stuff and clay forever you I just I just think it's the splash brothers forever to me I feel like this is how you play the Chris Paul thing is that it has to be his idea What whenever he comes off the bench by the end of the season? I think he's coming off the bench, but It when it whenever he comes off the bench. I think it has to be his idea that he does what Dremond did in that series against the Kings and says You know what I watched that game? I was suspended for it. We played better when I wasn't out with you know with with loony at the five and In that smaller lineup and I'll come off the bench. Remember that. Dremond just said. I'll I'll do that After stomping on subonus. Yes The Warriors dynasty has been built by star players being willing to come off the bench or play a different role, right? Andre Guadala Dremond green David Lee Dremond green gave such a shout out to David Lee after he did that in the play I remember when when David Lee got hurt and Dremond kind of took a spot and David Lee was just the greatest teammate about it and understood and even though I'm sure it crushed him because he had been a starting. He was a great player in this league for a long time Their dynasty has been built by star players who understood that this was the way the team needed to play to win and Chris is joining a team that has done what he has not done, which is win championships So he is a good enough basketball mind. He is one of the greatest point guards of all time I think he's going to see it. I think he'll at some point raise his hand and see it I think of course there's an ego there that's going to be barking. How could there not be? But I think he's going to at some point watch the way they play both ways and say you know what this is what we got to do Maybe you're right and Mark Spears said the same thing. Maybe they start that way just because it's Just because it's Chris Paul and just say let's give it a shot. We'll play you and Steph together Yes, it's a three guard lineup with Clay at the three and Clay's kind of declined defensively a little bit since his injuries So like yeah, is that line and Chris is not the same defensive player. He was two three four five years ago He's always in the right spot, but yeah, he's a little slower. He's old. Chris is old for a basketball player Like there's nothing wrong with it. And by the way, Luna has the Phil's coffee app on his phone and he can get us coffee and he's okay And so let's see how it works, you know, maybe Chris brings the ball up more and plays fast Maybe Chris adapts and plays a little faster But also I think the Warriors need to take some of what Chris brings because they throw the ball all over the god damn gym all the time Playing recklessly they did it in the playoffs said the second highest turnover rate in the playoffs That's what Chris does Chris comes and yeah, he's gonna He brings a different style than they play and he'll have to meet them halfway But I think they've got to meet him halfway too sometimes if you have if you have Steph and Clay running around off the ball and Chris handling it. That's interesting. I just keep coming back to this Who's coming off the bench People have pitched me Dremond because of that game series. Yeah, I just No, I'm just a no on that. He's the best defensive player on the team by far. Yeah He's the keystone to everything they do defensively And I want to maximize Steph Dremond pick and rolls I don't want to minimize that by breaking them up even for a few minutes at the start of every quarter I keep coming back to that and I keep coming back to If the stated goal of this trade or one of the top two or three Publicly stated by Steve Kerr and Mike Dunleavy Jr. Is our offense stinks when Steph is on the bench Here is a vehicle to single-handedly prevent that from happening again Well, then I kind of want to maximize the minutes that Chris plays with Steph on the bench and yeah You can do that by starting them both and pulling one of them early. It just seems simpler to bring them off the bench I don't think they've decided by a long shot But maybe you and Mark smears are right and I'm just I'm just being naive about the realities of this I think how they get there I think they get there where he comes off the bench I just think it it it it comes from him and he may walk into training camp and try to set the tone and say all right I'll come up bench So far he hasn't said that and then he was public comments, right? Oh, no, he did not he did not say that Like I mean, you know, it's it's a little like Westbrook in LA with LeBron and A.D They they got to the point where obviously he was totally ineffective with LeBron on the core. They couldn't play together at all and He did not go willingly to the bench, but he went and he eventually Darwin ham talked him into Embracing it air quotes, okay, and he played well enough to sort of resurrect his standing in the NBA And then they could find a home for him and he could find a home for himself in LA with the Clippers I don't know I Chris Paul's a totally different guy and a totally different player than Westbrook I don't think it ever has to get messy like that Chris is you know, wait just a I'll leave it at that. He's a different player and a different guy Then Westbrook in that and in how he'll handle this so I think I think that's where we end up by the end of the year But it's the question of how we get there and how soon interesting I my last words thought is you know the two timeline thing got so much press over the last four or five years And when they won the title yeah, it was it was even I kind of fell for it a little bit It was built as like a vindication of the two-time line plan even though the young guys contributed next to nothing I mean really it was just Wiggins You know which is it which is one of the ways they got one of these three lottery picks was through the Ingenious Andrew Wiggins the angel or associate got them Jonathan Caminga Um, I just wonder if they so they had three lottery picks in that two-year span I just they they have to look back at that and wonder Why did we spend two of the three on guys that we knew were projects in Weisman and Caminga because You just can't the two timeline thing when the got the guys on timeline number one are in their 30s It's just not functionally possible if you draft projects now if you like and we I don't need to go over the Franz Wagner Tyler's however and all the alternate to Lamello ball the other alternate choices they had because people make mistakes in the draft all the time And I still think Jonathan Caminga is going to be a good NBA player Weisman I don't we'll see um is now so far away in in the nether world of the NBA right now um You just even even like not that they should have drafted him But just the knock on Desmond Bain was that he was too old as a prospect well Turns out Desmond Bain walked into the NBA. He's really good like it just That hurts a little bit, but I do think the Warriors have a shot this year Um, and part of it is just going to be health and and and keep in the old guy's healthy and keeping Chris healthy But I like the Chris Paul Jordan pull trade. I like the way he fits and kind of doesn't fits in and fits out in Golden State I like I like yeah So we talk about James Hardin for 10 minutes. Let's do it. Let's do it You wrote a huge piece on the the inside the feud between James Hardin and the 76ers Which I think as you correctly pointed out in your story is really just a feud between James Hardin and one person Yeah, and that's Darryl Mori um I don't even know where I want to start here So why don't I start at the end which is How do you think this is going to play out Hmm I have heard Um, it's interesting because I you know obviously you talked to a lot of people close to both guys and both people both sides here Um, there are some people close to Hardin who say absolutely not he he's never gonna play for the game for them again He's so stubborn. He's so hurt and betrayed. I can't see him ever doing that And then there's other people who are you know that I this is Him ask you know him him sort of suggesting he's gonna come in and be in the best shape of his life And be amazing and reestablish his value in the NBA And I don't know how they get there with it whether that's for Philly or somebody else, but um I know there's going to be a lot of reporters in Colorado Springs Right in Fort Collar where they're having training camp in Colorado. I call our estate, right? And um, I'll be interesting to see if he shows up. Was Colorado state the football coach who said that His mom taught him to take his hat and his sunglasses off when he's talking to people in reference to Deon Sanders Oh, that might be good I mean, that's that was an interesting choice by Nick Nurse. I don't know. I don't I'm curious to find out why he chose that Um, they I mean they went someplace last year too. It was they would South Carolina or something, but um You know, I just want to briefly say I hope Deon Sanders wears like an oversized pair of sunglasses to the game. I think they're playing Colorado state this week Another growing person is not going to tell me No, what is okay for me to wear In a press conference after a game of people hitting each other and throwing a ball around the grass like I just like I can wear a hat if I want to Colorado staco I tell you if you want to be wear a hat on your podcast sack No, you wear a hat. You wear a hoodie. You don't tell people what to wear their choice So that's where so that's where they're doing training camp. Okay, so so he's gonna continue about I I think he shows up My my my gut feeling is that he shows up And they all work it out. I don't know if he and Darryl Mori work it out, but I think he has to compartmentalize and Just play it out Nick nurse. I mean look if you you you hired this coach who want a championship with Kauai Leonard who never wanted to be in Toronto who played it out who literally wasn't it like got traded to Toronto They they sort of talked him into being there. He had no choice but to play there because he had sat out the year before and in San Antonio or not sat out but sat out a lot of games there Um You know, I think Nick can make that work. I think Harden is made He's kept the bridges open with his teammates Um, I don't know if there is strong a bonds as they were at the beginning of the summer his you know It's put them all in a tough situation as well, but he was invited to Joelle and B is wedding He did not go, but that that doesn't mean they don't like each other. They're still in communication. They still talk um Nobody I think everybody involved has this attitude of this is between James and Darrell and People the MBA tend to be pretty good at not messing with other people's money and not getting involved in other people's business And so like you haven't seen and be and say anything about Harden you haven't seen Tyrese Maxi or Tobias Harris When they start training camp, they will all be asked about it But I'm sure they've had a lot of time this summer to workshop their answers of you know We would love to have James back on our team and we understand things went wrong You know with their contact situation, but he's a great player and we whenever he's ready he'll help us I'm sure they're gonna all say something like that And he just flat out has to play. I don't I don't know how he can sit out the rule of the rule of the league The rule of I've said this ten times already. He has to show up. Yeah Or else the sixers by this draconian rule that I did not know about frankly before the situation Can block him from being a free agent So he's going show up and have back spasms. He can show up and have a Barkey hamstring on day one Well, and that's the thing I was talking to people at the league office about this after the board of governors the other day When they announced the new resting policy, which I frankly think is is fine and is that why is that why you in the background? We were sending you screenshots you and you guys are mean. I didn't know I was on in the background. This is this exact face I Was I alright, you know what I didn't you were right? I didn't have any facial hair that day I know but you look really studious and serious like you might have been the only one in the room who got Adam Silver's four suit of fed references He did he really hammered the suit of that So but but the back wow how many spasms saying or the or just the hardened coming and just loafing thing Which is a fear that people there have yeah? You know, I asked people at the league office as you just did this whole resting thing and You know, I largely am fine with that I think it's a little overblown and that it doesn't impact that many players or that many game They're really care about the national TV games. There's the big national TV. I'm just what they care about and I but I said I was like you guys are Finding teams. Yeah The presumption being that teams Are asking these players to sit out which I think in most cases is what's happening It's a sports science medical decision, but I said we saw it with Simmons And we might you were have this other thing. We don't know how it's going to play out looming What about the opposite when the team wants the player to play and the player is not performing Or or away from the team and their response that I heard was like Look the sixers took Ben Simmons money away and They went to arbitration and he got some of it back, but not nearly all of it and what else should we supposed to do like like we can't throw them in jail Like they just like so that I just thought that was an interesting aside um I will see we'll see what's gonna happen. I mean look with harden and in writing that story There was a part of me like when they asked me to write something I was like oh god aren't people sick of this story. There's a fatigue to it A because we've all done this like three times before when he wasn't happy in a certain place Whether it was Houston or Brooklyn or you know now Philly I mean it's we've seen the James Harden. I'm not happy trade meets scenario play on part of that is Lazy bounce passes to nobody across the court while I jog out of bounds. Yeah, we've seen that What's interesting about Harden is that He is he has the kind of game. I think that can age well like you know when mellow hit the stage in his career it took a year or two for him to adjust and find a different role And I wish he would have got there quicker because he had some other productive years that he left on the table Then it took for him to go. Oh, I'm so really a shooter and I can I'm big and I can play inside and I can be a stretch forward I mean he was he got there eventually. I think James can be a productive player for a lot of teams He can't get by people like he used to You saw that in the all season long last year. He doesn't there is a He has lost a step, but he is a brilliant passer. He is a brilliant offensive organizer There was a sort of unwillingness on on by the way on both he and Joelle's part. Okay. They both tried to make it work But Joelle is not you know a natural pick and roll dunk of the ball clink compel a type But James wants to play with her has had a lot of success with He's he's a pick and pop guy or he's a he me if he rolls It's one out of every eight and it's not natural and yada yada If you talk to people in feeling they can point to you five games that that you can tell where they don't quite Mesh they don't their games don't quite go together. James doesn't want to do catch and shoot three Joelle's gonna get a double James is gonna be open. He's good. He's a good shooter But he doesn't want to shoot a catch a shoot. He wants to step back or he wants to dribble and do his get into his rhythm and play the way he plays And so there's never been that natural fit between them and yet Joelle won an MVP and James led the league in assists last year. I was gonna say and yet and yet and yet It's it's even though it doesn't work it works Well, I but I because I don't think it doesn't work. I think that that's wrong I think it works and yeah, it doesn't work the way it worked with clink of Bella and Dwight Howard and whatever But Joelle roll Joelle half rolls and he rolls into that 13 foot area And that's money in the bank for him or he's gonna pass it out to somebody else like their pick and roll Was flat out one of the most dominant plays in the NBA It worked James Hardin went from being completely allergic to catch and shoot threes as if they were not allowed yeah to Oh, I'll dabble. I'll take one and a half a game. I'll take one and a half step away Well, okay, my point is it worked and you talk about in your story Hardin Sacrificing his game for in bead and and expecting perhaps well just sacrificing his game for in bead and like I'm like Two years removed from wanting to hear that. It's not sacrifice if the guy is just better than you and you It's not 2017 anymore where you can just ISO 40 times at the top of the arc and win 60 games that way It's not the guy's the MVP It's not a sacrifice if you're making 40 million dollars averaging 22 and 12 and making I thought he should have been an ulcer last year and I thought he was gonna make all NBA until the last month of the season when he petered out None of that is sacrifice. That's not that's not even sports sacrifice. I know but in but when you have come from situations where you were unquestionably the man, okay in Houston unquestionably Everything was set up to treat you like a superstar so you could play like a superstar um There were things that I heard about you know film sessions and what they were able to say to him or show him and film sessions like Let's just say it was he was Unquestionably the man and very unchecked in his power and and the way that he was allowed to operate in Houston for a lot of years um I think when somebody starts to somebody started to check him Which was doc rivers you know even though James wanted to play for doc rivers James tried to get doc to come coach him in Houston after that. James wants to play with everybody until he doesn't want to play with them anymore Like that's the pattern of his last 10 years you what you picks all these dudes and then he's like yeah, but next Yeah, it didn't quite work. Chris Paul Westberg. Yeah, we can we can go through the list um I think though It's hard when I was writing that story to figure out where to start right because there's so many places you can start You could start with the last minutes of game six Against Boston where they don't jay, you know Joel doesn't touch the ball And then he says so in the in the in the press conference afterwards like He took one shot and then he never got the ball back and by the way one of the best anecdotes in your story Yeah, and you can expound on a little bit sure is a film session Or it wasn't a film session when he the same thing happened right it was a rocket's game where James took all the shots down the stretch Go look at this game. It is it is like you watch this game and you go oh my god It was all there for us to see all year long it was December I think it was December six But let's just say sometime in early to mid-December and It's a game in Houston the rockets are not good James has missed like 14 games with a foot injury and he's coming back and um Joel has a going 35 points whatever James hasn't shot well all night as you would expect from a guy who's been off for a month And but it's Houston and this is like the place where there's a flirtation going on between him and the rockets of like Free agency the big woad story comes out on Christmas about his interest in the rockets and their mutual interest yada yada So this is right in that time frame and when you come back to the town where you were the MVP And it's a close game even though it shouldn't be a close game, but it was a close game There's this play and it's like you can see what happens with you can just see his thoughts He feeds the ball to Joel on a pick and roll. Joel fumbles the ball out of bounds Okay, instead of dunking it He loses the handle he fumbles the ball out of bounds. They kind of argue with the refs And Joel doesn't get the ball back like that's the last time James is gonna go to Joel there Joel gets doubled on the next play in the corner finds James for a catch and she well I think it was a step back of officially with a step back But James is open and that's how it's supposed to work. Okay, they doubled Joel. He finds James. He makes the three James hits the big the big shot right there You can just feel like harden is cooking. We're in Houston It's a big shot. He makes it and the next two times down James with a little 13 footer from the elbow misses There was a pick and roll opportunity on that with MB. He doesn't look for him and then the last play which is It's a it's a rough one if you watch this last play James gets the defensive rebound and pushes the ball and Jalen green had been guarding James, but they switched Kevin Port of junior on to him and James not could have called timeout There's that they had they had a timeout. He could have called it. He could have organized the offense But he goes he lets James play because James is a great game organizer He's a great point guard and he lets he trust his player So James calls as James runs takes the defense rebound runs down the court And dribbles around there's a pick and roll opportunity with MB. It's it's not the best screen from MB but it was there and James does what he does he goes for the step back But this time the rocket snow like well James is going to do the step back because that's what James does and Kevin Port of junior blocks it blocks the shot It's the by by the way just in a side Kevin Port of junior facing horrendous Domestic violence charges and the rockets according to the athletic are attempting to trade him Along with draft equity to another team and so they don't have to pay out his wave his contract There are two there are two options for the rockets here and this is not one of them number one is wave him And number two is and this is what most teams would do Just say you're away from the team until this is resolved and I we don't want to see you you're gone But like and no team I would it is some team going to be like yeah, we got three second round picks for taking on Kevin Port of junior and then we wave them I don't see that happening you mentioned his name it reminded me that I should say something It I'm glad you did But it's like that sequence at the end of the game. This isn't December This is like early on and you can see it all play out like Joel didn't play the way James wanted to play fumbles the ball at a balance on the picking roll He doesn't there's not the trust there and then James doesn't get him the ball at the end now I'm going to come back to this because I think you have to every time this happens with those two James doesn't get the ball to Joel, but Joel doesn't demand it from James either Okay, like this is incumbent upon both of them like there is Joel and beat is the scoring leader in the NBA. He's the MVP If your Kobe Bryant is going to rip the ball from somebody's hands if he's in that role and Joel is as sort of Not confrontational in that way And he has every right to be confrontational when somebody's not getting you the ball and they're four of 19 or whatever it is But this is what happened in December. It's what happened all year long. It's what happened when it mattered at the end Well, but what happened behind closed doors after that game. Yeah, so after that game darker There's a film session and Doc calls him out. He says look at the tape like these were Why aren't you getting the ball to Joel? You got to get the ball to Joel And James said I didn't think it was open. You know, I couldn't get it to him. I it wasn't open, but it was a The fact they called him out in front of the team that early in the season Especially after some of the rumblings we heard out of training camp You know that clip that went viral of them and training camp even that was on NBA entertainment I thought that was telling that their relationship was that rocky that early on and that doc was willing to call To call him out publicly in front of the team because that doesn't happen with superstars very often But that's that's doc rivers. I mean he does that So there there are three instances like this that we know of this film session in which James says why couldn't get in the ball Uh the year before the last game against the heat in the playoffs Which they lose in the second round James takes two shots in the second half I think and then after the games as well the ball didn't find its way back to me And then game six against Boston last year in the conference some of my finals where Philly had that had a chance to close That series out at home and Joel didn't touch the ball barely in the last five minutes And all of them answered this question after the game as if Getting the ball to Joel and bead is like discovering plutonium. They're like well, just we just couldn't do it She's gonna go and do it. I'm like you're the point guard You're the center who's comfortable operating from the perimeter and you're the head coach Choose one championship before and played point guard for a billion years in the NBA And you're getting asked like why didn't this dude touch the ball and all your answers Just like yeah, we just couldn't do it or we couldn't figure out a way to do it. It's not Calculus just like someone should be able to stop a game that you have to win Or it's not yeah must win but they lost the next game by a thousand points in Boston and just figure out That seed the tall guy He's got to get the ball somehow. It's not it's like what we do the entire season in every single game is somehow like we can't do it anymore It doesn't make any sense to me and I'll and I'll tell you this I think this I've said this on the show before and and and your show and on NBA today I think it's not just about those two guys or whether The aquavers, you know how he organized the offense whatever It's when when you look at the way the nuggets who won the championship last year play It doesn't it never comes down to could they get yoke it's the ball Like it never comes down to Ken Jamal Murray find a passing lane or can they set the do they do the pick and roll or pick and pop do they find each other Because they're moving they're cutting. They're moving the balls finding energy. Or the yoke it's will just bring the ball up Yeah, no yoke it's just bring it up himself. I don't know that I can't see him be do that but I but I could see a reorganization or a recasting of how they play offensively To wear embied who by the way watches he's not the kind of guy that like I'm eliminated from the playoffs And I don't watch he watches everything and they and for as much as embied and yoke it's our pitted against each other and MVP races There is a deep and great respect for each other I think there might be a a pining for that style of play I think I think I think and be looks at that and goes We can wish it with that way like this is a great way of playing though We're the it's not in common on just two guys Or in this case maybe maxi or to buy us to to get him the ball I mean that now I feel like we're back in old like Shaq euro Lakers can you get the big fellow the ball like This doesn't have to be that way in the modern NBA Which is part of the reason I think Nick nurse was very appealing for them as a coach Uh, I think Nick nurse will do a great job there if given the opportunity to do it I also think Nick nurses to kind of coach you if James decides. I'm just gonna Not be fully engaged with the team. I think nighers will just bench him If Dave I'm gonna read you two snippets from your story Okay, and I want you to reconcile them for me Yeah, cuz I think they are very reconcilable and I want to hear your take on it This second snippet number one is From the summer of 2022 Uh, the year that the season that they traded for James from Brooklyn And lost to the heat in the second round. It's the season. He ended up signing the one plus one For 35 million dollars, which gave them the space to get house and Tucker um And this is what you write hard and new the reason he was quote sacrificing was that the sixers didn't feel comfortable offering him a new maximum contract Worth upward of 270 million dollars sources said After the way he played following a mid-season trade from the nets. They were still evaluating him um This wasn't so much a sacrifice as a mutual unspoken recognition the dream of recreating the glory days in Houston Had probably passed them by that summer 2022 Where you write like yeah, James understood the max isn't coming. Okay, then we get to this summer um and You write this is after they lose to the Celtics harden was eligible for a four year 210 million dollar contract if you declined as 35.6 million dollar option and became a free agent And he was expecting a contract in that range sources said having taken less the previous summer And having left 161 million dollar extension on the table from Brooklyn, which we don't even need to talk about So how do we get from june july 2022 Harden recognizes the max dream has passed him by to june 2023 Harden was expecting something like the four year 210 million dollar contract um is it is it just Hey, I did what you asked me to do and I was pretty damn good and we got pretty damn far Yeah, I mean, it's it's literally Okay, I did what you asked me to do and there was this sacrifice, okay, and you sold it that way and I sold it that way We all understood this wasn't option one for me I mean who leaves all that money on the table in Brooklyn and in Houston and then is totally fine Not signing the long-term deal and Philly when it's when it's when he's eligible Um, and this is where I bring up a concept called anchoring bias Okay, this is where when somebody tells you this is what you're going to get You're always comparing every other offer to what the first offer was you're always you're stuck on that And so circumstances change that's why they tell you when when it's offered say yes and worry about the details later This is the modern NBA you you take the money when it's offered you don't mean it in a lot of ways This is the anti-dame lilyard, okay? He doesn't take the money when it's offered and just assumes that the money will be there for him because it had been there before with both Houston and Brooklyn Dame takes the money in Portland and assumes well if it doesn't work out they'll trade me Neither has worked out this way um In a way I kind of respect James for sort of betting on himself and having that kind of hubris and confidence in himself um one very important thing that I I should mention I didn't write deeply about it in the story, but I think it matters um Michael Rubin was a Minority partner in the Sixers and is obviously a very good friend to James Hardins um and he He was Not involved this year like he sold his stake in the team. He fanatics is going in a different direction They they they're getting into the gambling business and then it doesn't make sense for him You can't really be in the NBA in the way that his other business is going and so When you lose that connective tissue When you lose that person who smooths things out who has the relationship with the star It Comes down to the other person who has the relationship with the star right and that would be Darryl Mori Which is why all the the anger seems to be focused on Darryl So there's two or three people there that James had very tight long standing relationships with Darryl Mori Michael Rubin Tad Brown who's the president there they all were in Houston not not my group but Tad and Darryl um and There was this sense of like these were my guys like when somebody's You know When somebody really believes in you Darryl Mori's made his career in his reputation because he saw what James Harden was and traded for him and Empowered him and then signed him to three different contracts there one of which was the richest ever for an NBA player at the time Um, he went and traded for me had to have him in in Philadelphia like when the person who believes in you the most Let's you down and doesn't come through for you with what you're expecting That's why there's this betrayal That's why he feels like he did everything he was asked to do including you know swallowing hard and saying yes to him sacrificing right even though I don't think that was his first choice um That's why there's this hurt feelings. That's why there's this betrayal here now You know you can you can argue that this is just business and you should never let the emotion and the person person The person relationships get involved here This and I think that's really what's happened here is that Harden was worth a max when he was in Houston He was worth a max when he was in Brooklyn although You can go revisit that and and how how excited they were about what year four of that max was gonna look like at the time I think they just had to offer it to him because they had to because they told Kevin Durant they would Um, and they if they're gonna go for a championship with those three they had to do it um But he didn't play well in that and Billy they weren't they weren't quite good enough those years and they didn't win And so all of them were on the hot seat now right like everyone's on the hot everything is under review and Philly because when you go for it and you don't win Hey, you don't get paid and be changes are made so doc is gone um He's the first to go. Let's let's see what happens if they don't win this year. I think everything's kind of up in the air but um It's really you know Maybe maybe this really comes down to you know Darryl and James had a long standing very mutually beneficial relationship And things got personal and when things go get personal and the business goes bad So does the personal and I think that's why we've arrived where we are you uh and others have reported that um There was no contact between Darryl more in James Harden in the days before the the starting gun fires in free agency You say in your story, but now when it mattered most Mori wasn't taking calls from Harden's camp And here's a quote from a source close to Harden James felt like Darryl was ghosting him He felt betrayed and this has been reported elsewhere and the reporting from you has also been um Coming often offseason at which the Sixers were dinged for negotiating early with PJ Tucker in Daniel House They just were so paranoid about doing it again That they were just not even going to be in contact with James Harden until the starting gun um Went off and boy had James Harden just waited until then yeah an offer of some kind Not what he wanted probably shorter Maybe not as much financially, but there was gonna be something coming so my question to you is What did the Sixers What did the Sixers think they were accomplishing by Essentially obeying the rules of free agency and quote ghosting Harden was it really just the fear of a second tampering charge like if we do this again The hammer is coming do you buy that as as a real as the real reason or was there some Negotiating strategy that they were doing By doing that maybe it really is just like if we get caught doing this again. It's gonna be a first-round pick this time Yeah, um I buy it I think they're I think both things can be true right like if you there's always ways to to get information to somebody But I think they you know look you and I both know that he they weren't giving them a max I mean he knew it he wasn't getting another max there. So Why would you have a little birdie go whisper in James's ear something? You know like there's a there's a way that you can pass that information in if you need to um And it's not tampering, you know, there's always there's always covert methods, right? I'm sure people are well familiar with those um It they he wasn't gonna like what he's gonna hear No matter what so There's no hurry to tell him that and get into that Um and also I do buy the tampering thing. I really do I think that the NBA was very clear with them and in this situation because it was so hot last year They really did have to be careful. So it was This is where I think also You know, he's had different representation ever since so his his last Agent agent was Rob Polenka Rob Polenka was his agent that he had all through those Houston years Um when he signed his big Adidas contract Rob You know was a was a very good agent for a lot of years before he left to become the general manager of the Lakers Um and since then he Kind of didn't have an agent for a number of years. He used the Wasserman guys at one point when he was getting traded Um, but they did there was not a long term deal in place there They just sort of negotiated the trade From from Houston to Brooklyn and and then there's there's sort of been a dealing with the players association And then this year he did hire a couple of agents, but they you know, this is this is these are when you bring people in late like This isn't somebody who's been managing your career the whole time You know, these are people who came in this year and so um I guess my takeaway is really it never should have got to this like it never he should have signed like he was advised When they traded him to Brooklyn. I know they advised him to sign an extension in Brooklyn And if you don't like it then you can get traded again later um I do think in a number of executives who told me this The heartened situation is you is unusual perhaps unique for lots of reasons But I do think Other executives and I've batted this around one of the ripple effects or trickle down effects of this new CBA is gonna be And the heartened example is being kind of held up as as an example of this is like More and more players outside. Let's say the top 15 20 guys in the NBA are going to operate Under the assumption that the big money won't necessarily be there the way that you expected to be if you hit free agency When the big money is there take it and take it for as many years as you can take it for because you can't just assume Then four year max is going to be there from three different teams in free agency Um, it's gonna be a fascinating situation. The story is an absolute must read Ramon everything you write is a must read You know everything it's a privilege to have you on this podcast sharing information Do you have any other thoughts on the Jared Vanderbilt extension which broke right before we hopped on here? Yeah, um, it's the Lakers. We got to talk about it. I know. I think it's a it's yet another Really nice team friendly deal that'll be good good for the player and good for the team because He was a solid contributor for them last year and I think he'll be a rotational player this year I don't know if he starts or if it depends on the matchup Um, but that's a really nice team friendly deal and All the years 48 million I should have said that up for four years 48 million um, and those are the kind of contract exactly that like I think in the new cba Won't really exist right like those It's really hard to have guys making somewhere between fifth. Well, this is 12 So so maybe this does exist, but those mid those middle contracts like you you're gonna have two maxes And then everybody else will be on vet minimums and and mid levels um, and so if you get somebody who's good In at that level. It's good for them. And it's good for the team because Those are the hardest ones. They're gonna be the hardest ones to create when you have already two max guys Yeah, it's a totally totally fine contract 12 million dollars year Plus if they get to a point Where they need to aggregate contracts if they stay under that In apron and they need to aggregate contracts They have a lot of really good young players on manageable deals that other teams would want Bingo Russell 18 Ruiz 17 Reeves. Let's put it reason a different category. Yeah, he's a core player there now Vincent 11 Vanderbilt 12 You know, they've kind of punted on cap space going forward, which is fine. There's a lot of different ways to build your team. He's 24 years old Maybe the corner three never becomes more than like a once every two games One thing, but he's a very good defensive player very versatile Some guard point guards Jama rant Steph Curry It's a totally fine totally fine deal. All right Ramona Good dear job. I got more writing to do. I go you know where I work now I can't work at my house and there's like two children running around all the time two little children Children will get you every time. Yeah, so I go I literally have been going to the we work office near me I'm like I'm like one of those co-working people How close is it how far you gotta drive ten minutes because our office in downtown LA is like an hour So I'm not gonna drive an hour just go right and I don't want to be the Starbucks girl And I don't want to be the kinkos girl All right, we take your laptop and you're like hey, can you keep it down over there? I know you're having fun with your coffee and everything, but I'm trying to write not gonna be that girl I like it. All right Ramona Charlburn Read the six-year story read everything she writes I think we covered a lot. Thank you for your time. Get those little kids in line and I will see you out in Los Angeles next week Yeah, it takes action