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Welcome back to the Ridge Zion Hunting Podcast brought to you by Phelps Game Calls with your
host David Crane and David Sandana.
Welcome back everybody.
Today we're doing things a little different.
If you've been watching, you can see we've upgraded a couple things.
We have this screen here.
It's a little bigger than the last time.
We have integrated into our broadcast.
We're going to have a host on the screen for the first time ever.
Yeah, so we feel like we accomplished something here today.
Yeah, that's right.
We integrated Zoom.
Yes, we're now with the future.
That's pretty awesome.
So today our host is in the state of Hawaii.
She's here.
There she is.
We just brought her in.
No, she's here in Washington.
Oh, she's joining us.
Yep.
Yeah.
I got to get used to this.
So if you could introduce yourself and tell everybody who you are and what you do, and
we'll go from there.
Yeah, my name is Marina Tress and I'm a Pacific Northwest native.
I actually split time between Washington and Hawaii, Maui specifically.
I'm currently back in the Pacific Northwest for the winter and prepping to go back to
Maui here in the spring as Rhett is coming up for the Axis deer.
And yeah, so I grew up in the Pacific Northwest.
I kind of traveled around quite a bit, lived in a bunch of different states.
Washington or Idaho and Colorado and Arizona and then ended up on a one-way ticket to Hawaii
about 12 years ago.
And the island kept me for a very long time and it was an amazing trip.
And here I am now kind of figuring out how to navigate split time between the two.
I own and manage three different businesses currently.
The first of which is kind of my bread and butter for a long time is a horsemanship business.
I've worked with horses since I was a little kid.
And that's kind of what sustained me initially out in Hawaii and then I ended up going back
to school for sustainability and got into archery hunting and got really involved with
Axis deer management.
And so then I kind of started my other two businesses which are Axis sustainability and
Mountain Wanderers Designs.
Axis sustainability is a consulting business and offers liaison services.
Really, for example, one of the projects I'm working on right now is about connecting
hunters with landowners for access to be able to hunt in the islands.
And that includes locals and non-residents that come in.
And then for Mountain Wanderers Designs, part of sustainability for me is definitely
utilize every part of the animal that you can.
If you're going to harvest an animal, yes, the meat is of course delicious.
But what else can you use the animal for?
And so I started tanning hides and then I was like, well, what can I make with these hides?
So I do a bunch of leather craftsmanship with the hand-tan hides.
And yeah, that's kind of my story and now I get to do the split time.
So you don't do much?
No, not at all.
I don't like to be busy.
Yeah, I feel your pain on that.
I have a business and it's been a long time.
So people don't really realize how much time you put into it and all things you're doing.
But I have a lot of questions.
Yes, please.
Starting with that one-way trip to Hawaii.
I'm like, what I thought in my head, a friend of mine, he was like, yeah, my brother, he
went to Bali.
I'm like, okay, that's cool.
He's like, he stayed for seven months.
How do you stay in Bali for seven months?
And he just, he went over there and he's surfing and he's like, man, it was so cool.
I just like, bought a little moped and started going towards Vietnam.
And when I got to China, I turned back around and came back south and he like did the whole
country and on this moped, nobody even stopped him or asked him a question.
So I imagine your story was like in my head, it was like, she's just out there surfing,
enjoying life, grabbing a conch shell, talking to, talking to who's that guy on the Disney
dude, the superhero, the Disney guy.
Anyhow, that's my, I got little girls in Disney is everything.
So, yeah, Moana.
Yeah, Moana.
Yeah, Mau.
Mau, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Mm hmm.
So how about that one way ticket?
Yeah.
So I guess, you know, yeah, the feral thing is probably pretty accurate.
I started out, you know, I kind of, both my parents were self-employed and so the typical
nine to five wasn't going to be my thing.
You know, my dad was in construction management and my mom was in environmental planning and
so it was kind of, you know, I loved the outdoors and I also knew that I wanted to do
something with business.
And so I kind of had to go find myself and figure out what I was going to do.
And I was working a lot and I had a good friend of mine that was like, you know, you
need to just take a break, like go just exist for a little bit.
You should go to Maui and I'd heard about it.
And I was like, I don't know, it seems real touristy and she's like, just go.
And I went for two weeks and I came back and I looked at her and she looks at me and she
goes, no, no, no.
And three weeks later I packed up everything I owned and bought that one way ticket and
out to Maui I went.
And you know, it's really interesting.
The island is funny, you know, in a way that like people will say, if the island wants
you, it'll take you in and if it doesn't want you, it'll chew you up and spit you out.
And you know, there have been many times where that could have happened and the opportunities
just kept happening and doors opening.
And I think, you know, it's very much a giving place.
Like if you go there to be able to give back and you go with the intent of like, what can
I do to help?
You know, that helps a lot.
And I started out working at a horse ranch out there.
And then I worked at Humane Society for a long time.
I was a vet tech for many years before going out.
So it was kind of an easy transition.
That's kind of where part of where I got to start in the invasive species management,
you know, as they do a lot of, there was a big feral cat problem out there.
And so they do a lot of trap, neuter or spay and release.
And so that helps with invasive species management and that kind of tied me into the deer.
And then, you know, I knew when I was living out there, I moved kind of all over the island.
I started on the south side, then I went back to school for sustainability.
And then, you know, I was living kind of on the west side.
And I knew I was like, once I really get this, I want to go, I call it up country.
And the place that I have is about 5,000 feet from sea level.
And it's actually a lot closer in climate to the Pacific Northwest, you know, it freezes
in the winter.
And yeah, it's amazing.
Like it'll be sunshine in the mornings.
And then it just, the clouds come in midday and it's like, you know, 50s to 65 or so.
It's just like perfect.
And that's where all the deer are.
So it ended up being really, really ideal situation.
Yeah.
So what is a, what is a trail cat?
You said, would you say trail cat or feral?
Feral.
Feral.
Feral.
Yeah.
Feral cat.
Okay.
Yeah.
I'm thinking I got to learn about these trail cats.
Yeah.
No, actually, you know, that is in, you know, it's interesting.
You know, why actually one of the things that's very unique about it is that there
aren't really predators out there.
You know, there are no big game mammals, for sure.
The largest, like carnivorous thing are mongoose.
And the mongoose were actually introduced to take out rats, but ones nocturnal ones
diurnal.
And so they didn't work out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I have a lot of boats of them.
This place is great.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Well, that's why the deer and the pigs have just taken off, right?
Because there's nothing managing them at all.
Yeah.
Except for people and then, you know, they're smart.
They know they just go to private land and they're a lot safer when they do that.
That's awesome.
So you were a vet tech here and then you went there and your friend said, no, no, two weeks
isn't enough.
You know, and I'll say the same thing.
I went there for seven days.
Yeah.
That was not enough.
You know, I don't want to leave.
I was like, yeah, what?
I guess.
Well, she was jealous.
She wanted to come.
She was like, no, you're not going to leave me now.
And I was like, what?
Sorry.
I'm not going to get money to come back.
So I'm good.
Yeah.
And there was down your options, either you sink or swim at that point, you know, you
have your one-way ticket.
Probably could have bought another ticket, but you don't plan on coming back.
So why do it, you know?
Oh, and it's just, you know, I mean, it's such a special place out there.
You know, I mean, I guess my parents must have destined me to be around the water too
with my name.
So I kind of grew up in the Pacific Northwest on the water and, you know, being there, I
worked as a naturalist and outreach specialist at the Ocean Center.
They have there and they do a lot of habitat restoration and like coral transplanting and
they do a lot of education based, you know, conservation.
It's a huge asset because I think a lot of times people come out to the islands and they
really want to enjoy and see the, you know, fish and see the, you know, whales and the
beautiful water and all these things where they don't understand that, you know, when
Maui has millions of people every year that come out, you have an opportunity to be able
to educate people and teach them, you know, don't use, you know, aerosol sunscreen or
like use, safe sunscreen or if you're going to go swimming, go in the mornings because
it's going to be, you know, a lot more likely that you'll see things without getting sunburned
and, you know, I think a lot of it's just teaching people.
Yeah, the first time I ever got burned was in Hawaii.
I've never been burned in my life.
I kind of naturally have like dark skin and yeah.
Yeah, I'd never been burnt that bad in my life.
Oh, it happens.
It was the first, I was 20, 25 years old.
I'd never been burned and I've been all over the place.
Yeah, I was like, what's going on?
My wife's like, you're burned.
I was like, what is that?
That was freaking out.
I didn't know what was going on.
So I went to Hawaii and a lot of those things you're talking about with the reef safe sunscreen
and yes, you know, everybody went to snorkel, right?
I got there.
I was like, can't we go to the ABC store?
Oh, yeah.
Grab your.
So we walked down Capulani Parkway and right down a Waikiki Boulevard.
We were right there in downtown Oahu.
And so I thought I'm going snorkeling.
I'm going to hopefully I see some of these cool fish.
But as soon as I put my head in the water, there's just fish everywhere.
Surprisingly, they're like every square foot has a fish in it almost.
Yeah.
I was like, holy smokes.
So here I go going out, didn't realize that the sun would reflect off the bottom and get
you underside sunburn.
So I had my back cover.
I had nothing up here.
I was like, I'm going to be face down.
I don't have to worry about it.
Yeah.
No, the sunscreen works two ways or the sun works.
Yeah, it works two ways.
It works two ways from the bottom.
So if you go to Hawaii, make sure you get your front cover good.
Because even if you're face down, that sun works, it goes through water, back up and get
you.
And that's like magnifying glass burn there.
That's the worst.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Animal is like a lot of the sea life actually.
They have it's called counter shading, basically the real dark on the top part of their body
and the real light on the underside.
And that's exactly what you're saying.
So if something looks at them from, you know, down below and they look up and they see it
real light because it matches the sky above is going to be or if they look from above
and they look down and it's dark, they're not going to be able to see it as well.
So it allows them to camouflage better too.
Yeah, it's fascinating.
So I did a couple years of marine biology back in the day, you know, I was like, yeah,
it's cool.
I'm going to be all about ocean life and stuff.
And here I am, you know, long time later, I just work on houses.
You know, it's been all day.
I spent all day on a roof today getting wind burned.
Oh, man.
Yeah, we'd take a chimney out.
So yeah, learn about all that stuff and the coral and, you know, that's fascinating to
me how they, how they work in Germany.
You know, the whole island, everything over there is just completely different than the
mainland and it's great.
It is.
It's a cool thing.
I thought the mountains were incredible when I went.
I was like, dude, the rain just how they look.
Well, dude, it goes from sea to like, yeah, 10,000 feet.
And then Polyakala, that's the largest or one of the largest inactive volcanoes in North
America.
And it actually, you know, when you, when you go to the summit up there and you look down,
you know, you're like, I, it gives you some humility for sure.
They have hikes that go through the crater.
It did several quite a few years ago and you go 10,000 feet to sea level and that'll
give you some culture.
Yeah, 10,000 feet is pretty high anyway.
Yeah.
We go, we go.
So it's a little though, 5,000 feet and it takes a couple of days to get adjusted.
Yeah.
It's great training.
You know, it's great training for the mountains.
I came back here and I was like, oh, like this feels actually pretty okay.
I've been, you know, doing most of the stuff at 5,000 feet.
So that's another hill.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, they make a big deal about that elevation in the NFL too.
You know, they're playing Denver.
They go mile high stadium.
Yeah, they get on that.
Yeah.
So let's get into the access deer.
Yeah.
Actually it's getting close to the season, correct?
It is.
Yeah, they actually, so they breed year round, but they do have a rut and the rut is actually
normally made in June, July is the like prime time, you know, as opposed to fall, you know,
back here on the mainland.
They're just starting to shed their velvet out right now.
They're actually, you know, they're very interesting deer because they're more closely
related to elk than deer and they travel in herds.
They have around a 220 day gestation period, so they can actually reproduce sometimes twice
in a year.
So their population growth, you know, is huge, but you know, when that rut happens, it's
an incredible thing.
I, for the first time this last year, they have a very interesting call.
It's not like a, it's not a bugle.
It's not kind of a wheeze or anything like that.
It's kind of this, I don't even know.
You'll have to like look up, look up on YouTube or something to call for, but it's like this
way.
Actually, okay, there you go.
Yeah, sound, but it's kind of like a roar almost and yeah.
Is it between like, like that and like a red stag?
Yeah, it's really, it is.
It's a very, it's a very unique sound and they have, they have a couple of sounds.
They're very vocal deer in general.
They have alarm calls and their alarm calls are very similar to that, but they're very
high pitched and the does will make you for days.
Like they see you and they start doing that and you're like, oh, that's done.
You know, like they busted me.
But the, the roar that the, the bucks do, you know, they start thrashing trees and they
start doing that last year was the first time that I was actually able to like call one
in from doing that.
Oh, that is cool.
He came running.
Like he was on a mission and I just, I couldn't believe that he was actually, I'm like, you
know, I didn't even use my voice.
They have some calls that people have made out there, but I just tried to use my voice
and they're just, you know, when they're read it out like that, they don't, you know,
they don't really care.
But I just was trying to do it to see if he would actually come.
And he can't.
Whatever made that sounds going down.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Going for it.
Yeah.
But they're really, you know, they're really, they're really interesting species too because,
you know, I think it taught me number one, I mean, that's how I cut my teeth.
I've only ever harvested animals, really, archery.
And I, you know, I picked up a bow when I didn't read.
I mean, I had no idea what I was doing.
And at the time, you know, it's somewhat self-taught.
And then I also, you know, had a little bit of guidance as well.
But when I picked up that bow, you know, I'm right handed.
And so they're like, Oh, well, here's a right handed bow.
And, you know, I shot and it was like effective and only within the last year did I figure
out that I'm actually left eye dominant.
Oh, yep.
So that's been a fun.
I'm just kidding.
I want to do that with my kids.
Yeah.
They're like opposites.
It's like a little thingy.
Yeah.
You're like, Oh, okay.
So at some point, maybe, you know, and I'm like fairly ambidextrous, you know, doing
horse, horse work as well.
So, you know, at some point I might pick up that left handed bow, but you know, it was
a lot of trial and error.
And with those deer, like they are very alert, you know, they're native to India and Nepal.
And they, their natural predator are tigers.
And so yeah, big cash.
They are very, very dirty animals.
Anything that moves, it's out of there.
Oh, yeah.
And they, you know, their sense of smell is very good.
So that's weird.
You know, for sure.
So it was close to like, it'd be close to like hunting a white tail deer, bucking boogie
like a pronghorn.
Yes.
You know what I mean?
Like, it's like a cross between those two things.
My name is Hala.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I'm there.
They're lighter too.
You know, they're like smaller, you know, maybe get around 250 pounds, like on the heavy
end for a big buck, you know, but those does are definitely, you know, smaller than that.
And when they travel in the herds, like that's one of the issues is there's so many eyes,
you know, and it's like all it takes.
Highly suspicious of any movement.
Oh, yeah.
For sure.
So it's, you know, I mean, you have different, yeah, you have your different methods of hunting.
And I think, you know, most of the success, I mean, I've done spot and stock too, but
most of the success that I've had has predominantly been, you know, I hesitate to say like tree
stand because it's not, but I'll find like a cliff edge where I can be up above them and
they'll come down through like a corridor.
It's like an English style.
Yeah.
Exactly.
And then they don't really see you before during or after.
And I wouldn't call that tree stand hunting because you're not just, you know, walking
slowly to your tree stand, you know, drinking your coffee.
No, it's, it makes you work.
Yeah.
Sorry for the tree stand.
I totally done that too.
Yeah.
Hey, I've done it too, actually.
It's not a method that I would recommend for people that have 80 like me, but no.
Oh my gosh.
It's like your arm starts to itch or your leg.
You're like, why do I have this random scratch that I don't even know that I need to like
scratch, but I do.
The leg starts twitching.
Yeah.
Like, I don't want to move, but our friend of ours, he's, he's been tree stand hunting
for quite a while.
Yeah.
In Washington and there's a lot of things he's discovered, which I won't share.
Something's going on here.
Let me pause.
Yeah.
Hold on one moment.
It's funny to see that these deer are so aware, like, you know, for when he sets of eyes, all
of them are on duty, you know, full time.
And you have to ambush him from cliff edges.
Yeah.
I'm thinking like, I don't know why I have like a vivid imagination or something.
I'm thinking like Lord of the flies here, you know, and they were ambushing those pigs.
You know, remember that?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
That was crazy.
And that's a good flick.
So they're quick.
Yeah.
Go ahead.
Just a quick question.
Which islands can you actually hunt the access deer from?
Like all the islands open to it or how does that work out?
So it's like, yeah, so it's interesting.
They actually started when they did the original introductions in 1867.
King Command Mail was gifted three males and six females, right?
And they were originally introduced to Maui in 1959.
Now they're about 50 to 70,000 in Maui.
And yeah, so we're talking like population massive expansion.
And they also have them on Molokai and they also have them on Lanai.
The other islands, big island does not.
They have Muflan sheep and they have, you know, some other species out there.
But predominantly it's like Maui, Lanai and Molokai.
And, you know, Oahu, not so much either.
Like a lot of them will have pigs.
Pigs seem to be one of the, you know, more predominant things that are, you know, more
widespread.
But the deer just have really flourished being, you know, on Maui and those other two islands.
And they're all part of Maui County.
And Lanai, it's interesting.
Lanai actually has the way that their hunt system is set up is to have a annual hunt where
people put in for tags for it.
And then you, there's a ferry that goes out there and, you know, you can go out.
But they've had some, this year should be interesting because they've had a bit more
rain, but they've had a lot of drought conditions.
And so there's been a lot of starvation and real big issues with those populations out
there because it's very, very dry.
And Maui's had some of the similar stuff with the exception that, you know, this having
more private land and a lot of that will give them a little bit more forage.
You know, for the most part, but they're very destructive.
And so that's kind of what starts the conundrum of issues with being able to hunt out there
is they've got people that want to do it, but there's not a whole lot of public access.
They have a couple of places on Maui specifically.
And I guess that's probably where most of my knowledge is.
But one of them specifically up country has been closed for a couple of years now.
And you know, they're talking about reopening it, I believe in the fall.
But you know, beyond that, you either have to have private land access or, you know,
you're kind of in it to wait it out, I guess.
And that's hard because of, yeah.
So that's where I'm trying to, you know, I'm trying to like bridge that gap, you know,
and I think a lot of it for conservation too, where I can use it as an opportunity to teach
people too about sustainability.
Like, okay, you want to come hunt these things?
Like, what can you do to help give back to the land?
You know, what can you do to like help utilize all of the animal, you know?
And there is a bit of a mentality on the island.
A lot of people really like, you know, those big bucks and they're beautiful.
Don't get me wrong, they are beautiful animals.
You know, at the same time, like subsistence lifestyle is, you know, it's food, right?
And you can't eat the antlers.
So there's a big push to kind of try and, you know, do doderbies or, you know, push
having more consumption of dough meat, which by the way is delicious.
You know, it's very, very tender.
I mean, in general, the access to your probably the best, you know, bias, but most people
say it's the best meat you'll ever have.
I mean, it's just so lean.
It is very sweet.
You know, they're living off of like, you know, guavas and flowers, you know, native
grasses and yeah, they're just, they've got it.
Even Remy Warren was saying that the access deer is just, yeah, that's like the ticket.
You want to go to Hawaii and you land, you just smell the floral smells of all these
topical plants.
You're like, yeah, so you landed on top of a fruit.
It's true.
Like 30 of them.
Yeah.
A whole cornucopia fruit over there.
Yeah, you just opened up a bag of Skittles Starburst or something like.
Oh my gosh.
That's the island has a way.
That's awesome.
So let's take a quick break and come right back.
We'll talk about the hunt when we get back.
Okay.
As soon as Dave sits, we'll get going.
Oh, no, totally fine.
So going to Hawaii, I have a vision in my head of this access deer hunt.
To me, it seems like there should be like a tribal elder and you go through a smoke ceremony
and you honor the creature, right?
And you like go through this whole thing.
You know, so I've seen that on some shows, but it seems like that'd be an attractive feature
if that was involved in, you know, honoring the animal and just doing like the native
thing.
I'm not sure if that's even a Hawaii native thing, but it would be pretty cool to do.
Yeah, you know, that's that's actually an interesting approach to it because I think
that's part of any sort of subsistence or like harvesting from the land out there is
there is a lot of honor in it.
And I think there's a lot of respect for that animal, like giving its life to you.
And that's why I felt like every animal that I've harvested there, like there was without
a doubt a moment that that animal was like, I provided myself for you to be able to harvest.
And you know, and of course I'm like, I'm kind of woo woo.
I guess the way I feel about it, but you know, I do it like the sage and the, you know,
having the ability to really like sit with not even just like, you know, it's the hunt,
the hunt for me is, you know, it's like my church being out there.
And I think that if you really are connected to the land and you're really connected to
the people there, you know, you understand the culture behind it.
And I make a point whenever I harvest to in Hawaiian culture, they have like aunties and
uncles and they're not, you know, like by blood, but these are kind of like a triad
that have adopted me and vice versa.
And so whenever I harvest, I always make a point of, you know, giving some of them meat
to, you know, those like family members, ohana is what they call it, you know, I give
that to the ohana because, you know, it's like this was, I'm coming in as like, I mean,
I'm not an outsider, but you know, I've not born and raised there and I do want to like
be able to honor the space and, you know, the animals and the people that are there.
And so, you know, my way of trying to like give back includes being able to do that where
I can share the bounty of the things that I have.
And also I think that's where a lot of the like habitat restoration stuff comes into
because, you know, people really thrive on seeing you give, you know, if you're willing
to give back, that's huge plant natives or, you know, like make meals this last year
that I got, I've never made ceviche with deer before.
I've done it with fish and such before, but I was gifted a recipe and, you know, did
all the lime and like, you know, the herbs and all this stuff like that and made it out
of the backstrap and it melts in your mouth.
Like it was one of the most delectable things like I've ever eaten.
So I took some of that and I have a, oh my gosh, it's just like crazy.
And I had some of that and I took it down to one of my aunties and she was like, oh,
man, like she was so grateful because they can't go hunt anymore, you know, but they
want to be able to enjoy the things.
And so, you know, as a way of being able to kind of like honor that animal and, you know,
I always, I don't know where I learned this, this one, but whenever I harvest an animal,
I'll always go like find a little bit of grass like from where I harvest it and I'll like
put it in the animal's mouth, you know, after I harvest it.
And you know, I've got like, yeah, I've got, definitely got some pieces around it.
And I think, you know, that's like part of the hide tanning, you know, I've done a bunch
of different ways of tanning those hides.
And, you know, if you like using brain tanning, for example, if you do that, you're using
so much of that meat and I'll cut up the bones and I'll give them to my friends for
their dogs or keep them for, you know, my animals or, you know, all of these things that
you can do to use it or like use the call fat around all the organs.
And you make that around your meatballs and adds extra fat for it.
And it's like, it's just, it'll blow your mind, you know, but you don't know those things
unless they're like passed down or if you like hear them through the grapevine.
So I think, you know, if you're kind of honoring the animal, it's a pretty special thing.
Well, there is a lot of, a lot of waste that does take place in harvesting an animal.
Yeah.
A lot of times people don't mess with the organs and stuff and then like typical, but typical,
I guess your average hunter wouldn't be exposed to that stuff.
So you think about an organ and you're like, nope, no thanks.
We've got more involved in that.
Yeah, definitely.
And we started using all the hides, you know, we started getting the hides tanned.
We have a couple of throws now, but I had a deer, my buddy started this.
He shot an elk and he had the whole hide done up and he threw it over the back of a chair
and it was just the coolest thing.
So I was like, you know what, I'm going to do that when I get the chance.
So I shot this deer.
We started doing that because we're just going to have hides everywhere.
Yeah, eventually that's my life.
Well, one of our buddies, he made like a pair of moccasins out of a hide, which yes, yes,
you met Dustin.
Yeah.
He was the one that made the leather piece that was in the, that was really cool.
That was really cool.
That Washington state piece.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was really cool.
Yeah.
They got along really well because she was like, Oh yeah, I started doing this and that.
And I was like, Oh yeah, Dustin does all that stuff.
Yeah.
I haven't done any of that yet.
But you know, it's something that I would love to get into.
So it's really cool.
It's trial and error.
Yeah.
You know, that's how it starts.
Like I didn't, I had no idea.
Thankfully, I had a, a girlfriend of mine that did a bunch of tanning and she actually
makes like Hawaiian saddles, like course saddles and stuff and raw hide work and stuff.
And she, yeah, she taught me because that first deer that I harvested, like I wanted
to do something, but I didn't really know and the hair started to slip.
And I was like, what do I do?
And she was like bark tanning.
I was like bark tanning.
What does that even mean?
And she was like, Oh, these waddle trees that are invasive, but they create really beautiful
tannins.
We took the hide and we put it in there for like four months and you know, and a tea.
It's like a tea with all the bark in it.
It turned out stunning.
Like it is like this deep rich mahogany color and I made a little plaque with it for with
the arrow that I got my first deer and you know, all the things.
And I was like, this is really cool.
Like I want to keep doing these things.
And so you learn, you know, you're like, well, some work, some don't.
That's awesome.
So you're so you're soaking these in that, that what's it called?
A waddle tree?
Yeah, waddle bark.
Yeah.
So in the Pacific Northwest, they have like various different types of, you know, barks
that you can use as well.
But out there up country, they have these waddles like WATTLE waddle trees and they're
yeah, they have this like deep red brown color and you take kind of like hunky wood
and you soak it and you make teas and like the more wood you put in it, the darker the
teas you start lighter.
And then, yeah, and I told her, you know, it's like at that point, that first deer, I wasn't
sure if he was even going to be salvageable and she's like, well, you know, we're going
to try it.
And it turned out to be awesome.
And I've made like a few leather bags and stuff out of it from it and, you know, have
a few pieces like saved just because and, you know, then the other ones have like done
some hair on tanning, but you know, in the process of making a tumbler and stuff now
so that I can soften some of them.
I've done it all my hand and it's labor intensive.
Yeah, it's awesome.
Yeah.
Well, I have so many questions.
I know that our conversation can go on forever just because it's so many different though.
Like I haven't even the first part when you started, I had about 15 or 20 questions and
now I have you more.
So we could go through this.
I can tell we're going to have another episode in the near future because there's a lot of
things people need to know about you, you know, and all the things that Hawaii has to
offer, you know, being that we've been there.
I've been there one time 16 years ago.
Yeah.
And I said the next time I go, I'm bringing back my bow.
That's because absolutely they were shooting archery in the park and I was like, I'm going
to come down here and shoot by the ocean.
Yes.
It's nice and warm, smells good.
They have like a little sign that says danger archery range.
So they had a lot of self accountability on that.
And you know, I might just end up on an island on a cliff edge looking for an access here.
It is.
It's a pretty good gig.
It will change your life.
You know, really well.
Well, before we go, we do I have a couple questions.
Sure.
One, when does access deer season actually start?
Like how long is it?
Like what's the beginning and end?
Okay.
And then wait what?
Is it really round?
Yeah, you're around.
It's in one of the not must have read some completely wrong.
As what?
I must have read just when the rut was.
Well, no, so you probably read Lanai rules too, right?
Because Lanai, even though it's part of Maui County, they have specific rules for the
hunt on that other island.
But Maui, any deer anytime.
Holy shit.
They are like they are literally basically begging people to come.
Oh, right.
Take them because they're.
They got to do that.
Ask me.
I'll go whatever.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Beg me please.
Yeah.
And then if we wanted to book something through you, how do we go about doing that?
Yeah, so that's the part that I'm in the infancy stages right now of working on because
what happened was I basically started talking to landowners and that's how I kind of got
access to be able to go out to some of these properties to hunt.
And a lot of it is, it's like this responsibility and ethics and you create a rapport and all
this and that.
And I'm like, how can I take this and transfer it?
Because there are guide services.
And it's, that's a barrier because they're very expensive, you know, and people want to
come out and they're like, I don't have several thousand dollars to just come like spend on,
you know, a hunt to come out here.
So that's kind of one of the things that I'm working on right now is establishing a set
of landowners, you know, and hunters who will have a set of ethics to be like, okay, this
is what I want to do.
This is why I want to go hunt.
This is what I want to go hunt and be able to make those connections, you know, because
there are outfitters, like I know there's several like on Molokai as well, that you can
probably pay, you know, a few hundred dollars or I mean, I don't, I don't know like specifically,
but you know, I've heard from people that you can and I don't know anything about those
per se.
I just kind of am trying to think of it in a bit more like broad scale, like to make
it more available for people to be able to come hunt and to do it in a way where, you
know, conservation is in the forefront because we want to be able to give back to that land.
So it's not just like extraction.
And you know, and so I do have like, you know, some friends that are guides and such, but
right now, you know, for them, it's like cost prohibitive, right?
Like they have to charge X amount to be able to do this because they're trying to put food
on their table too.
So I'm trying to, that's like the project right now is really working to establish, you
know, this community where people can be able to come hunt, they can give back the land
owners feel good because they're not having as much crop damage and, you know, land like
erosion and all these other like, you know, eye products of having the deer there.
And it's a, it's a got a lot of nuanced pieces to it for sure.
You know, there are a lot of moving pieces for it.
And that's kind of, you know, it's hard because I get people like contacting me wanting to
come out and do that and I want to be able to like provide that in a way that says, okay,
this is like how you can come do this.
So it's kind of, you know, it's in the initial stages right now.
Well, that's perfect, you know, then we're at the starting end of that as well.
So whatever we can do to help you out and get this thing rolling and.
Yeah.
Awesome.
Thank you.
Yeah.
And you guys are doing like amazing things too.
You know, I think it's, it's really cool to have, you know, people that are like either
new to the industry or like figuring out through trial and error, like, you know what, we want
to get more people involved.
Like you're bringing your kids, you're like trying to, you know, you're trying to like
involve other people.
And I think that's a really good thing because the community, you know, I think a lot of
it is people have questions that they just, they don't really know, you know, they want
to get involved, but they don't really know how to do it.
And, you know, avenues like you have are a really good thing to be able to get it out
there.
So it's a good thing.
We humbly try.
Yeah.
We have our, our stumbles and things.
We're figuring this whole deal out, you know, as you've seen, as you've seen in this, in
this episode, we have another thing to add to our check down as we start, you know, so
we figured that out today.
And that's good.
You know, we can help with the sustainability.
I was involved in the Washington, Washington state program here.
And they had the same issue with hundred, with landowners and animal relations and then crop
damage and property damage and, you know, all the other issues that come on with having
the large herds of animals, just an overabundance in an area.
So it is important to make those relationships and then figure out how it works together.
You know, how, how can it work for them?
How can it work for you and the environment at the same time?
And so that's very important.
What do you think you learned from that from that experience?
You got three hours.
Yeah, that's awesome.
No, that's awesome.
It will take a week and cover that in a whole.
Yeah.
That's like, that's exactly it though, right?
Like that's what people are talking about, is trying to figure out what these nuanced
pieces were that, you know, create an environment where it's going to help the landowners, it's
going to help the hunter, it's going to help conservation, right?
Because that's what we need is we need the land.
I'll tell you what we need the animals.
We need the habitat.
What we did one time, we went hunting in eastern Washington and we weren't having a lot of
luck and we saw this property and we saw a lot of deer trails going through there.
And then we just went and knocked on the door and talked to the lady and she was like,
oh yeah, you know, you guys can hunt here.
And so we went there and Dave actually tagged a deer there.
We'll post a video on Instagram.
I still have the video.
And then, but we ended up chopping so much firewood for her.
It was like, yes.
Yeah.
We did a lot of stuff for her.
Her husband was in bad shape and it was an older couple.
And yeah, we spent.
We spent like a whole afternoon into the evening cutting firewood and doing some farm chores
around her property.
So I bet they were so grateful to.
Oh, yeah.
It was four of us too.
So they probably got 20 hours of labor and we were hustling.
I mean, it was like, yeah.
So they got 20 hours of good labor.
You know, not the.
Yeah.
And you got a deer out of the deal.
Yeah, that's right.
That's good.
That's winners worth of, you know, or at least start of winners with me right there.
Every bit counts.
Well, we made a relationship to did you go back over there and okay.
So I have a flooring company and we ended up going back there in that following like
October, like two months later and installed a bunch of hardwood in her kitchen and stuff.
I think I think I did it for like a hundred bucks, but I do a lot of the gas to go there,
you know, so yeah, it was it was definitely not something that was a financial consideration,
but I knew that she needed it.
And during that time, since hunting season till then her husband had passed.
Yeah.
So it was like, you know, one of those things where I was like, well, let me do something
for you.
And so that worked out good.
She's super nice, you know, it just makes it feel good.
It's been a couple of years.
That's exactly.
But that one, that one gesture of goodwill, you know, was all the difference.
Yeah.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah.
Ah, that makes me happy.
Like that's that is exactly it.
That's that is the goal.
Okay.
So you you'll get there too.
I mean, sounds like you're you're on your way.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The pieces are coming together, you know, it's like just figuring out the logistics and,
you know, how it's going to look and, you know, it's that's the joy of like entrepreneurship,
right?
Small businesses here.
You're doing all the all the like bits and pieces to make the stuff come together.
But, you know, it's been a treat to like come on with you guys too.
I think, you know, it's nice to connect with other hunters and, you know, people that
are interested in conservation and uniting community.
Like, I think that's a big part of all of this as well.
You know, it's education.
It's teaching people and, you know, inspiring people to want to get outside and be like,
you know what?
You don't have to know everything or grow up in a hunting family or, you know, I mean,
I didn't really know anything.
It took me two and a half years of sitting in the woods to get my first deer.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
That's the that's the time for your thinking.
You're like, what are these bugs doing on me?
You know, like, I could are there a lot of bugs in Hawaii?
You know, it's like not as bad.
I mean, I guess it's all relative, right?
I mean, I think of like a Alaska or something and it's nothing like that, you know, I mean,
in the summer, it's like hot, you know, when I'm going in there in the rut and I'm having
to like sneak in like so slow, you know, initially, and it's just like, you're like sweating
in your hot stuff, but not really like, you know, bugs, you'd be surprised.
It's not as bad as like, you know, because I did, I did a hunt in Florida.
And that Florida, you know, they have so many different bugs and poisonous deadly things
and, you know, being from the Northwest, you don't consider like I could step on a leaf
all day over here and never worry about a rattlesnake being underneath that.
Yeah.
Or like a water mocks and coming out of a little hole in the ground or.
We call that the note broke.
The note broke.
Yeah.
There's a lot of note ropes down there.
They got all sorts of them.
Hawaii news, Hawaii doesn't have any snakes.
That's good.
So yeah, there is that.
That's a lot of jungle over there too.
That's nice.
Yeah.
Go to the Trump's and around.
No predators, no snakes.
You get a little spoiled.
I came back here and I was like, you know, little small going out in the woods out here.
It's amazing that they don't have snakes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because all the islands like in the Southeast Asia cover the snakes.
Oh yeah.
Every single snake you can think of.
Do you think that's because they have so many pigs or something or what would stop them
from the department of ag is like super on it.
They, yeah, it's been a thing from pretty much like day one.
There's just there's very little tolerance for any like that.
And we're like, no, we're Hawaii.
We have no snakes in here.
No, we don't want anything to do with that.
Thank you.
That's how that's cool.
Yeah, it's a good thing.
Yeah, exactly.
That's a perfect thing.
Well, the Department of Agriculture for Hawaii needs to go to Florida and help them with
those things.
The Python.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, they just said they're like, you know, they're just expanding way more rapidly than
anybody can do anything about it right now.
It's just, you know, yeah.
They need that.
And that's like, you know, predator management is this whole other thing.
That's kind of like part of my emphasis, which is funny living out in Hawaii where there
aren't really predators.
But, you know, yeah, being able to like, you know, look into ecosystems and trophic cascades
and all that stuff and figuring out, you know, what animals like are good for the environment.
Which ones are not is.
Yeah, it's a whole thing.
So that's a whole other day.
Yeah, it's funny how it just snowballs, you know, just from the snakes to the Burmese
Python.
I saw an article about this lady taking out her trash and like the Philippines or something
and she just disappeared and they found her inside this big ass Python.
No, thank you.
I don't know what that would be like.
I don't even want to imagine it.
But they got the same ones in Florida.
Yeah.
You know, no, no, sorry, that one was reticulated Python.
Those are the biggest ones.
Those ones are the ones in Thailand.
Burmese is not as big.
Nope.
Yeah, I'm not having any of that.
Yeah, I want to go way down south.
They'll eat the whole access deer.
Yeah, whole whole thing.
Yeah, nope.
Yeah, that's that's the ticket then Hawaii it is.
Yep.
No snakes hardly any bugs.
Yeah.
What are you going to worry about?
No mountain lions.
No, no, the pigs.
The pigs can be a little extra, but.
Oh, yeah.
Well, we'll be taking one of those out too.
Yeah, they're delicious.
Gets them all out.
Yeah.
Yeah, do it.
Pulled pork.
That's pretty good.
Blue owls over there.
Will they put the pig in the mouth?
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
We went to one every night.
We went to one every night and we're there.
I was like, I felt so spoiled.
I felt like a king.
It was awesome.
Hawaiian culture knows how to, yeah, how to make some delicious food.
Oh, yeah.
Really true.
Ask, ask off a.
Yeah, I know.
So David's brother-in-law is Hawaiian big dude.
Oh, cool.
Like six foot four, like the rock.
He's small.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, he's small.
Yeah, I was like, it's kind of like small.
He's huge.
He's huge.
He's huge.
Born in Hawaii.
Yeah.
They just moved up here two years ago.
So they're in the military, but my wife's sister, they're natives and so they moved up
here and the food, they're making food.
I mean, every single day.
I mean, it's just so good.
Yeah.
Like, how do you make this?
You just text me a recipe.
I'm like, I made it wasn't the same.
It's something.
Yeah.
He's like, I just tossed this in there too.
You know, and next thing you know, it's just like perfect.
I was like, you should open a restaurant.
You make it killing up here.
Mm-hmm.
Oh my gosh.
It's so true.
I have a physical therapist that she's from the Hawaiian Islands and she's like, oh, yeah, my
auntie came from it.
And she brought like, Hapia and Mochi and all this stuff.
I'm like, just stop.
Like you were just making me so jealous.
It's all so delicious.
Like one more way ticket.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
So when do you head back?
When you head back to that?
Probably like May, June.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Just like another month or two here, you know, kind of just finishing up some stuff with
the house and property and getting prepped for the rent.
And I'll be back there for a month or two and, you know, harvest and get somewhere high
and stuff for tanning and, yeah, you know, do some conservation projects while I'm out
there.
Do some work with this, you know, access project as well.
And, you know, and then back here for archery, I put in for archery tags here for elk and
deer and such.
So I'm excited to get out in the Pacific Northwest with Stu.
Nice.
We'll see how that goes.
Have you been, have you been putting in for any points, like special hunts you want to
go on here or?
I did.
Yeah.
And I actually like, so last year, you know, it was kind of, I was still like back and
forth a lot in Hawaii.
I didn't really have a whole lot of time, but I had, I drew for just Western archery
elk here.
And then, you know, I found myself like right around the border of where the East and West
were.
And so I put in for East elk this year, but I just kind of, when I did my tags this year,
I'm just like, you know what?
I'm just going to start gaining points.
Get as much as I can to just, you know, if I don't draw it, that's okay.
Just keep adding to the points for it and, you know, understand that at some point it's,
it's a, you know, it's like good lessons for me too to just like kind of cut my teeth
and get out in the woods and, you know, have some bigger country as well.
Just to kind of like get some exposure and, you know, ultimately, yeah, my goal is, is
archery elk, you know, a mule deer too.
For sure.
I've got that draw from mule deer, you know, black tail.
I grew up on Bashon.
And so, you know, they've got black tail for days out there, but, you know, I think, yeah,
trying to hunt.
I mean, it's all perfect property.
It's all, yeah, same thing, right?
It's like a lot of private too out there, but, yeah, I think, you know, it's just, it's
going to be a good season to, to really like, just start getting out.
And I'm, I just, I mean, yeah, it's my happy place to get out in the woods.
Anytime I'm out there, got a young dog right now that's like an unconventional kind of,
bird shed dog.
And he's, he's into the, he's into the antlers.
Like I've started training him on that and he is like, he will find him anywhere.
So I'm really excited to go out and do some of that to you.
And have you been trained around the access antlers or?
Yeah, actually.
And you know, I did have all the black blood work and stuff for if I'm possibly going to
take them out to Hawaii this round.
And if not this round, you know, be the next one.
But I also, you know, have some sheds and stuff from here too.
So, you know, I can go plant him.
He's, he's on it.
Like he knows and he's, he's super like driven, motivated, you know, and it's a, it's a cool
thing to like watch them grow.
He's only about six months old right now.
So it'll be his first season to, yeah, to go out and figure it out.
So what kind of dog is it?
You said it was unconventional?
Yeah, he's a Husky Shepherd cross.
And I grew up with labs.
I grew up with labs and you know, that dog, you know, my lab that I had for 15 years,
he was just like, I mean, that dog would be absolutely anything.
And he's just, he was awesome.
Everyone says they're dogs awesome.
But that dog was like, really, you know, he's like YouTube star, the whole thing.
But he was, yeah, he was really cool.
And you know, I've always kind of had labs and this dog has given me a run for my money
for sure.
Like he is just, he's very high drive.
He wants a job and he is incredibly smart.
I mean, he knows so many commands already.
And I was like, well, I wonder if I can teach him with like birds or anything or like fetch
and retrieve and I can have him mark on things.
I can have him go fetch, he'll bring it right back to my side and hold it until I ask for
it.
You know, and then I started with the antlers and he was like, oh, this is a good game.
I like this.
So now it's just getting him out in the woods and he's got the stamina because that Husky
part of him and the drive from the shepherd.
And you know, when he's not being bouncing off the walls, he's really good.
Yeah, that's awesome.
I had a yellow lab for about the same amount of time.
And you know, everybody, I always used to say, man, this dog is so smart.
He's so cool, except for my friends always disagreed.
They were like, because this dog, he'll do everything that you don't want him to do.
He was like, he was like the dog that, you know, when we first got him, he was just like,
we didn't recognize like the anxiety a dog would have.
We left him at home one day.
We had in this big room, like he had his bed, food, water.
We had a baby gate.
He would jump the gate, take the loaf of bread off the counter, right?
They low like counter surfing too.
Yeah.
Two baby gates.
So we're like, fix them.
Double baby gate.
Put the second baby gate up on top, two to a hole through the wall, like through the
drywall back into the main house.
My wife was like, nope, not having this.
He's out of here.
And I was like, listen, we can't just get rid of the kid.
This is our first kid.
It's our first baby, right?
First one.
We left him forever and just, it was just always like he's just, he was motivated to
do what he wanted to do.
And our current dog, Teddy, he's a golden doodle.
He is so dang smart, like smartest dog.
They're good.
He trained him so fast on anything that we wanted to train him on.
It wasn't, it wasn't a challenge.
My other lab was really smart too, but he didn't pay attention and listen as well.
He wasn't disciplined.
He was just like, nope, I got this block in for a reason.
Yeah, yep, yep.
Genius, their personalities are definitely very different.
You know, and this one's like, yeah, he's, he's more high energy.
He wants to go do the things and kind of sounds like more like that first lab you had.
And the other one that I had was more like the one that you're talking about.
You have now, it's like, I think he trained me probably more than I trained him.
Yeah.
It's awesome.
You guys learned to work together.
Oh yeah.
Is there a difference, do you think, between the scent or if you were to just train a dog
for access antlers, would they run into the woods and find a black toe antler the same
or would you have to have that mix of smell?
That's an interesting thing.
Like I think, you know, this season, what my goal is to do too is like kind of to be
able to get him out into the wild to do it is to go search and find some antlers.
And then before I touch them or anything, right?
And like contaminated and was sent, like, stand back for a bit and kind of put him on that,
you know, and get him searched.
Like he knows now if I tell him, you know, search, find your antler, like he will immediately
go to work and like find what's around him.
And I think as soon as I can associate that with him, it won't matter what type it is.
You know, I think he's, he's smart enough to know like, okay, this is the thing.
And if I get him on it a few times and he has success, I think that's how you really
like build confidence in them too, because they're like, oh, okay, this is what you're
asking for.
This is what the goal is, you know, now he's got his, like his full teeth, right?
His adult teeth.
So he can actually pick them up and bring them to me.
You know, when he was a puppy, he's like, these are kind of heavy.
I can't really like I'm trying.
Always cute when they lose that little baby tooth and it's like right where you see it.
You're like, oh, there's a little tooth came out of there.
Yep.
Yep.
We've done several of them.
That's awesome.
Well, before we get going, where can people find you?
Yeah.
Um, so for access, um, my Instagram is access underscore sustainability.
Um, and I post there pretty often.
I'm working on the access site right now.
Um, and then for mountain wanderist designs, which is all the leather work, um, it's mountain
dot wandress w and d e r e s s dot designs and or mountain wandress dot com.
That's where all the products are listed for sale and such as well.
Nice.
And email access sustainability at Gmail.
Sweet.
And yeah.
Awesome.
I appreciate having you on today.
Um, yeah.
Thank you guys.
I, we have so much more to talk about.
It's crazy.
Yeah.
We'll definitely have to be in contact.
Um, have you on?
Yeah.
Quite a few times because we can talk all day about this.
Awesome.
I've been thrilled to.
Yeah.
And we're, yeah.
What an exciting mission.
You know, you're definitely working on this very inspiring and something that we all need.
So, um, thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah.
You guys got turkey season coming up too.
Yeah.
Yep.
Yep.
I think Dave's leaving tomorrow to do something out here.
The road is closed.
Oh, okay.
I didn't think I'll match that.
Yeah.
I think it is.
Yep.
Uh, well thank you guys so much for the time too.
And I look forward to talking more and, um, yeah.
Seeing how the season progresses for all of us and, uh, yeah.
Thank you again.
No problem.
Awesome.
Well, I'll talk to you guys soon.
All right.
Yep.
Thank you.
Have a good one.
Okay.
Hang on.
She hung up.
Yep.
All right, everybody.
That is our episode.
Hopefully you liked what we have going on here.
Dave, you're on two screens now.
Yeah, I got to cut this thing off.
See my face?
I'm looking at nobody knows.
But, um, yeah.
So we are continuing our turkey giveaway.
So look for it on Instagram and YouTube and on Facebook and we'll be giving away a three
pack of Phelps game calls.
But that is our episode for tonight.
So yeah, everybody have a good one.
Good night, everybody.
Thank you.