Is "Being Great" Holding You Back?

Hello there Peabody here, and this is the wayback machine we're traveling through time And this is my boy Sherman. Speak Sherman. Hello. Good boy Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the stacking Benjamin show I'm Joe's mom's cousin Diana and is trying to be great holding you back in life Maybe more than you think so let's chat about it Joining us today. We welcome a woman who talks about everyone's confidential money issues Stephanie O'Connell Rodriguez Plus let's say hello to the first and only man to free solo El Capitan It's no, I'm just kidding. The only thing this guy free solos. It's trips to the fridge It's just Lin Penzo and finally a woman who's no stranger to money adventures Writer extraordinaire Paulette for hatch But that's not all halfway through the show I'll share my reach out and touch someone trivia question and now a guy who never shies away from a money conversation It's Joe Hey, they're stackers I might I might shy away from it Diana fits the reach out of somebody money conversation But now what a piece of that welcome to Friday on the stacky Benjamin show where we have a nice roundtable chat about a topic that's in the popular press and Before we get there today's topic. Let's Say hello to everybody around the table. We'll start with our well We'll have our our guest of honor gold last let's say hi to the guy who's deep under Los Angeles in his bunker Mr. Len Penzo's here. How are you man? Well, I'm doing pretty good. I've I'm a little disappointed It's apparently door dash doesn't deliver to bunkers Once they've actually just refused that they just actually refused to deliver now So I actually have to get out of the bunker and actually go to the darn wiener schnitzel and get my corn dogs there What is this 2012? I mean come on. What are we doing? It's like the old days remember we had to actually go out to get our food line remember we had to do it What are we hundreds of gatherers? You know, I know people that did they live by door dash now I had door dash to the day I got Kentucky fried chicken and now I'm dropping all these names I had Kentucky fried chicken. I got it for me and my daughter I didn't feel like leaving and You know it was like 70 dollars for a few pieces of chicken and some mashed potatoes and and you're not kidding This isn't a dead joke. I thought I thought there was a joke coming. No, there's no joke there I mean, I just spent I couldn't believe it. I was like geez Louise, you know, was that really worth 70? Let's say hello to Paulette per hat who is here. How are you Paulette? I am doing great Yeah, the number of times I've gotten to that last screen and has been like No, Paulette. No, we're not doing that. No, no, no, but are you like Len where you're dropping all the big restaurant names like Kentucky fried chicken? I mean, I'm sorry. We're not all of us can be Len Penzo's getting people to bring us Kentucky fried chicken Easy money bags. Mr. X your crispy himself. Yeah, by the way Diana. Hello to you Hello, fantastic introduction. I heard from somebody that next year's economy conference Say this isn't true. It is tickets of oned sale short time and you are Rockin sales. Oh, yeah, they are selling like hotcakes even just today I found out that one of our hotel blocks so we partner with two hotels One of our hotel blocks sold out in one day. That's amazing Yeah, I was at camp five and so many people were saying great things about it because everyone had just Been there and then came and there was a lot of really great talk about it. Awesome. Oh, we had so much fun I highly recommend it if you want to hang out with other money nerds and it's what economy conference calm, right Diana? That's right. Awesome. If you listen to the end of the show, we might give people a little something something But we've got the something something here with us now. It's about time. She's here For the money confidential podcast, which by the way one a flipping webby Stephanie O'Cottle Rodriguez is here. How are you? I'm so good and I'm so hungry from this conversation I probably get more delivery than anybody here combined is it all Kentucky right chicken? Stephanie I don't I'm vegetarian I'm really into my son. I'm an Indian. I really should I get by the end of the episode. It'll be here It'll be a whole thing Be great and only you'll have to refinance your house take out two new credit cards just to get it correct. Yeah Well, congratulations on the webby like I told you on social media that is just so kick-ass Because I feel like you've worked your ass off on this show and it's great to see the recognition. That's amazing Well, thank you for being on the show. That's probably why you want. That's probably why obviously why else I Wish I was gonna destroy it. I'm like you sure you want me. You sure you want me for the people that haven't listened yet though Talk about what you do. It's it's with real simple magazine. Yeah, so real simple magazine hired me to co-create and produce the show where we talk to people about their money issues Confidentially while they're experiencing them So if they have a question about something they come on and they say hey, you know I have a thirty five thousand dollar credit card debt that I haven't told my partner about and I'm not really sure how to have that Conversation and you know how these conversations go when you dig deeper behind the numbers It's a lot more than numbers on the page that we wind up talking about its feelings of worthiness and relationships and what expectations are and who we are as good people or moral people and what our money says about that and so it's a lot of Angling these feelings and you know the real circumstances of how money shows up in our life And then in the second half of each episode I get to have people like you on Joe who come on and say hey Here's how this really breaks down according to the numbers or according to the law If we're talking about divorce for example or if we're talking about psychology We'll talk with somebody who's an expert in that so it's such a treat for me because I always consider myself You know a facilitator of conversations. I don't have all the answers But I want to bring in all of the perspectives and people who do and that's what we do on the show You're such a great interviewer and just your natural curiosity really shows in the show So everybody should pause this right now go subscribe to the podcast because it's incredible. I am so happy you're here with us today We're gonna talk about a piece from outside magazine Which is not a place where we usually get financial stuff, which is why it's one of my favorites that we've talked about Is it okay to be good and not great at something? Sometimes we put especially with money put a lot of pressure on ourselves We're gonna talk about that in a second, but you know what Stephanie since is your first time here You and I have to chat about something ahead of time. Mm-hmm. You ready for this. I don't know Well here it is Stackers, this is so funny if you're somebody who likes intelligent conversations like stacking vegments But you have kids and you want to get them interested in the world around them Who's who smarted which is by the way the best name for a podcast for kids and This is great. Who smart is the world's funniest educational podcast for families from history to science pop culture? They make learning fun for the whole family. It's beloved by home school families and classroom teachers for its ability to spark conversations and Natural curiosity is the perfect length for car rides or fun educational breaks during the day They have more than 300 original episodes Everyone under 20 minutes impact with great stories and real facts from get with their amazing voice They're trusting narrator. You've got to listen to this guy and what it is Such a great show. I've been addicted myself and here's the deal my kids are 28 now So I can't make the excuse that I'm listening for other people. I'm listening for me So listen to the most recent episode just the titles. What's the biggest fish in the ocean? Our chickens third cousins to T-Rex and by the way, of course the answer is going to be different than you might think it is How do invasive species invade? Is a Pacific garbage patch a floating island of trash? How do countries pick their national symbol? It's all over the place and by the way, how did loose and Clark become famous American? Explores my favorite board games loose and Clark and they cover all of this with intelligence but very fun and Very appropriate for the whole family. So if you want to be a smart parent look cool for your kids Make sure your kids have fun learning who smarted available wherever You're listening to us now just search for who smarted. Wherever you're listening to us now We're all juggling life a career and trying to build a little bit of wealth the brown ambition Podcast with host Mandy and Tiffany the budget needs to can help. How can I protect myself from identity theft? I think the first thing is to be aware of what fishing attempts look like so check that email address But now it's like coming to your text you just fishing text now. No, yes. I'm on this virus I'm like girl. So you text now with your lack of funding Brown ambition wherever you listen Wasn't that important that was so important Stephanie of course We have Stephanie O'Cadora Rodriguez here finally died a Mary of pull up her hatch Len Penzo, so let's get moving As I mentioned ahead of time our piece is from outside magazine This is a well-written piece of willing to in our show notes by Brad Stalberg The headline is it's okay to be good and not great What if striving to be great is what's holding you back and Paul let's start with you Do you agree with that premise is striving to be great wrong? Is it okay to just go yeah gonna kind of be just okay at this You want to talk about how I actually am or how I think I should be well no let's talk about how you think you should be actually That's because we all are striving. I was actually just talking about this with my writing group a very important meeting where you know I said This morning I went outside direct my morning pages get my light photons per dr Huberman and my eyeballs first thing and you know I'm writing I'm two and a half pages in then I'm supposed to have my Meditation and my neighbor walked outside and he's been in Africa for two months doing his like studies and like we started having this great conversation I was like you know what? I'm just gonna like ditch a little bit of my morning routine to like have this conversation with him Right now because this feels like real life this morning. I did the same thing I walk my friends three-year-old to school with her sometimes and like I just learned He's not gonna be going to that school next year So like this is the thing we do this year only and I was like oh, I gotta like soak this up, you know so it is this balance of Presence and growth where it's like I want to grow and I want to do great things But I also want to enjoy the present moment so in The best-case scenario you feel that balance. I've seen your calendar palette Your calendar says you are striving to be flipping awesome all the time and we see it in your writing But do you find yourself then disappointed because sometimes you take the break do you feel disappointment in taking the break? No, I think because it's like I love Jocko Welling he's like the human opposite of me and one of his phrases is discipline equals freedom And I think because because I'm disciplined ish and I write everyday ish and I work out everyday ish When I do take the break it doesn't matter that much because I am playing that habit long game When I'm in my the best of me my best self says like This is good enough, right? And like I want it mostly I want to enjoy my life and there are so many books coming out right now from Especially a few women talking about how like success is not this thing that really you want to go for like we want growth But really it's the journey there Stephanie you've always seemed just as somebody from afar who sometimes puts a lot of pressure on yourself to do great things Do you find that striving to be great is is good or bad? I have found what for me is really ideal Which is that I have a lot of striving I have a lot of ambition But I'm also very happy and I'm very content And I think it took me a long time to figure out what that took and part of it was really Disconnecting this idea of striving from the idea of being the best I think the idea of the best or perfection whether it's in our money or in our careers or wherever space we're in It's just really antithetical to growth that feels authentic and connected to Your own uniqueness and your own strengths and finding the things that you value And I also find that it's a very narrow view to Paul That's point success is not one metric and I have found that when we get caught up on a singular metric Instead of having a well-diversified portfolio if you have it Of things that bring us meaning enjoy That's when things get really out of balance. So I'm always considering, you know, not striving to be the best at the things I love So much as how do I build a life? How do I build a lifestyle that I love and that's not solely comprised of my financial success? It's not solely comprised of my career. It's not solely comprised of my relationship or my social circle If my entire identity was on one of those things whether it was my money or my relationship That would be a problem. I would have a lack of diversification Oftentimes this conversation, especially these days is often presented in a binary that like ambition isn't working and it's burning people out and so we should not be that and I think it's flawed I think what we really need to be is you know, disconnecting from this idea of perfection or the best And I think we need to be more well-rounded in the way we build towards the things we're striving toward Yeah, I'm gonna want to talk more about that in a second But first you have a background. I'm just realizing you you have a background in acting and in the theater too, right? Yeah, and that has really informed a lot of my perspective Know what I'm saying is that the bad stuff you talked about at the beginning of your discussion on this I mean How much rejection do you go through and you've no idea? So I feel like you're always like how am I the best how do I make sure I'm better? How am I better? I gotta be better? I gotta be better and you're not better for you as much as you're better for whoever this arbiter of you know, who's giving the part out is that's gotta I know that only second hand because I worked in television and our anchors on TV were always like that They're always looking behind them looking for the stab in the back Well, and that's exactly it right the best is also just an arbitrary metric Right if you've worked in creative spaces even what we're doing here. What is the best probably this episode right now? Obviously this exact moment in this exact episode and I just wanted to add that like I Truly started to really feel that I was in community when I didn't need to be the best right striving to be the best in a way is Anti-social behavior right where like like I remember where I lived in South America everyone kind of have the same like if you saw like 20 strawberry stands they would be like everyone would be the same We're like what about writing like the best strawberry stand and they were like well That would be really rude to my neighbor to say that right so Instead of being like I personally want to be the best like writing in a writing group and having a writing community You can see yourself as like instead of like a singular that flower in a vase like I need to be the very best one one of many flowers in a field of flowers and to truly feel joy when your friends Succeed and people make beauty and just being a part of that bigger ocean And just a small wave in it and not being so egocentric and I go back and forth You know where like everyone's announcing the book deals and stuff like that again like when I'm When it's two seconds after I've meditated I'm like in the flow and everything and then of course we fall back into ego and then being in community really helps so Part of the issue their palette is it is a fine line? I mean on some way you want to strive to be good at what you do I want this to be a quality product that I bring to the world you don't at the same time But at the same time the collaborative nature of what we're doing here now Means that you want to be a flower in the field. You know to use your analogy I use that analogy all the time Joe wants to be a flower in the field. That's my goal Beautiful ball power when I was gonna ask you, you know, Paul. Let is an entrepreneur Stephanie is but I don't know are you an entrepreneur? Do you work for real simple? Are you higher but how does that work? No more contractors? So yeah, yeah, so you are an entrepreneur Len you're a guy as an aerospace engineer your entire career Working in a field with other people striving to be great. Where did this piece hit you? What do you think about striving to be great versus you know being okay with maybe not being? Well, I think it's okay to strive to be great. I mean that's natural human Desire I think every all want to be as great as possible The key is to not try to be perfect and being good You know so be great But don't try to be perfect because that can actually you know you'll never get to be perfect But a lot of people try to be perfect and I think they confuse the two So, you know you got to jump in there and you got to just start going the the role to even becoming great You got to start You're probably not even gonna be good to begin with but if you don't get going You'll never get too great. So don't be afraid to jump in there and make mistakes and a part of that process You know mistakes aren't a bad thing people tend to think oh, you know, I might make a mistake Well, you know what you're gonna learn from that mistake that mistake helps you grow and It helps you get better and it's not bad. It's just it's part of life It's part of the process and it's something you have to do and not be afraid of but I feel like the job that you worked in You know you can't say it's just one rocket who cares if it went down Let me tell you some there are different people in life There are there are what we'll call the experts the masters of certain things And then there are other people who are just as important and they're the jack of all you've heard the term jack of all trades master of none But those people are important too Those are people who have actually learned to delegate Refer to the masters, but in the goal of getting something done getting a project completed You're the one who knows who to go to and how to get them to do what you need to do Jacks of all trade masters of none are very important people and they're not experts at anything They're not great at anything, but they're good at knowing what to do and who to contact Yeah, you need that person who's the connector? I mean people that are great at connecting the pieces of people who are great Well, yeah You have to know that because I see a lot of people that make mistakes They don't know how to delegate and they fail because they don't know they try to take on jobs that they should be Delegating and you'd be much more you have to make that decision is it more efficient for me to try and Jump into this project and do a certain task on my own and learn it on the fly or should I delegate it? I mean you can lose money by not you it's cheaper to delegate certain things and try and take it on yourself So it's a balance you have to kind of measure things. I think that's funny Len because especially Finance nerds right we're like no, I'm not gonna spend money in that I'll just go ahead and do it and it is funny I'm smiling because I was part of a swim club with my kids They swam on this is local, you know community pool and I was in charge of a certain area And I remember the club president going hey Joe how's this thing coming? I'm like oh I got to do this this this this and he literally I was good friends with him And he was an older guy puts his armor on me and goes Joe when I put you in charge of it That didn't mean I wanted you to do it and I went yeah This is my number one soapbox especially with my writer friends are in their 40s and 50s writing for the New Yorker Killing it and doing every single thing themselves. I'm like Some of it go. Let's let yep. Let's some of the go Diana want to turn to you for a second Yeah, Len I was gonna say it's hard for some people some people think they have to do it Controlling people they've got to be in charge of everything and they're actually doing themselves a disservice Yeah, you do you have to let go actually or the late night radio talk show host guys He was a financial show. It's it's long off the air Bruce Williams's name some of our listeners might remember Bruce It's just fantastic host he always talked about the power of delegation about how far are you gonna get if you only have these two hands You're not gonna get anywhere and even if it's done worse. It's done I mean at least you're you're making moves you can't do anything if you just rely on those two hands Diane I want to turn to you for a second because I think about pressure in your life to be great first of all you bring out this Conference different than what anybody else is created. So the first year there's some pressure to not suck right? I would think because every all the eyes are on you totally fine and then No, but then Paul let them thinking that after your number one what happens you nail it and so in your number two You're like okay, how's she gonna beat that and then of course now you've got these sign-ups are like every I feel like the pressure Doesn't go away. Yeah, how do you how are you okay with good and not great? well This is so interesting that we're talking about this today because I think you know we just came out of my third event that happened last you know last month March and Leading up to it. I crumbled under that pressure and I was not doing well I saw you I saw you at pod fest. Yeah I was not doing well and you told me that you weren't doing well and you could see it all over you It was I I just wanted to give you a big hug as a friend. I just felt so But you know I did it to myself because it was this self-imposed pressure and I I think that I just feel such a sense of Responsibility to people that are they're spending a lot of time and money. They're finding childcare for their kids They're coming for they're flying to Cincinnati, you know 70% of our audience comes from afar. It's not a local event It's a national conference. I do it mostly by myself now. I have figured out Different areas that I can outsource, but here is the thing that shocked me. I felt like I was failing the last five Months leading up to the event. I basically didn't do anything like 90% of the stuff on my to-do list that I thought I really had to do I didn't do it because I crumbled under the pressure and then I showed up to the event and guess what? It was fine. It was better than fine. It was awesome. It was magical That says to me is that I over complicate my work and a bunch of the stuff that I think I have to do I actually don't have to do it because I didn't do it and it turned out fine and so I am really processing that now and trying to approach my work differently in Challenging the assumptions that I have when I put something on my to-do list these things that we think that we have to do Do we really what would happen if we just didn't do those things? Maybe you'll show up to your work and it'll turn out fine and what I realized about this event first of all this community is incredibly generous and friendly and open-hearted and a really close friend that I actually just hired as my coach She said to me two months before the event All the people want is to gather together and be together in community and you've already done that You have a venue you have a schedule you sold tickets You've got speakers the work is already done. Nobody cares about your perfectionist like making sure the footprints from the I mean people do like the footprints from the hotel. I do like footprints But no, but like if they weren't placed perfectly 10 feet apart. No one would notice that right? It's like I get so wrapped up in these details that in the grand scheme of things don't matter what matters is relationships. I Think I am just coming to this place of really finding a lot more joy in my work Because I'm prioritizing the right things now and it's the people I think that's a great place to leave This discussion for a moment in the second half of this discussion what I really want to do now that we define the problem How it can be a problem for us? I think we've alluded to some of our solutions But we'll talk about fighting through procrastination about how we get stuff done and can we if we don't think we're good with money Right, that's an area where we think we had to be great How do we duct tape that like what are the parts that matter and how do we get through that without having to feel like we're a money genius? But before we get to that at the halfway point of every Friday show we have this year-long competition going on between our three frequent contributors Paul at per hatch Len Penzo and OG Stephanie today, you're playing the part of OG. I'm so happy you're here and not OG for I won't say that with him around However between us with nobody listening to the show. I've got some good news and some bad news for you Stephanie Which one would you like first bad always first? Well, the bad news is is that although OG has won the last two years in a row this competition. He is in the last place and Somehow well, I know why because Paula pant hasn't been here for a while and she's perennially in last place Paul Let's take in charge. She has five Len Penzo has five oh gs for which means Len since you've taken second the last years in row Len's gonna go have to guess first Paula you're guessing in the middle and Stephanie then you get to guess last all righty all right, so we need to trivia question Diana. What do we got today? Hey, there's stackers. I'm Joe's mom's cousin Diana and today we're talking about how being good with where you're at can lead to great things Speaking of great accomplishments on this day in history an American inventor Nathan Beverly Stubblefield who described himself as a practical farmer fruit grower and electrician. We sure this isn't Len Penzo Was the first person to patent a wireless phone? I wish I could tell you that he made tons of Benjamin's office patent But although he was first getting his phone to market wasn't his strong suit and he later went into conclusion where he died on the bright side his work is getting a shout out on the stacking Benjamin show So he's got that going for him My question for you is what year was the first wireless phone patent? I'll be right back after I asked Joe's mom if she's got any empty green bean cans and some string That's gonna go well. I figured out did you guys do that as a kid Stephanie? Did you do that as a kid? I have no idea what you're referencing the kid you took a little cam And you took some string and if you stretched it oh Attention in the line would make it so you could hear each of my brother. I would do this caught up on the green beans. I Know what you're talking about now. Yes Yes, I don't eat green beans from a can of way. She's like a pass Her pass well good news is the cans already empty so you get to you get to do that anybody do that Len You must have done that. Oh, of course. Yes, absolutely That actually that was my actual phone back in back in 2021. Oh back in my college days Yeah, that was the only thing I could afford so Len you are first the wireless phone Yeah Well, something tells me this was a patent was done many many many many moons ago I'm gonna say 19 41 1941 product of the war a wartime invention Len maybe yeah, maybe Paulette, what do you think wireless phone? So it didn't have to work. It just had to be the idea for it if it's a patent It's just the idea. Yeah I will go 1951 1951 So Stephanie got this 10 year field goal there. Yeah, is there a price is right situation here? There is not there used to be a believe it or not Stephanie. We had some stackers get angry. They're like Stephanie would say the year one I'm gonna go with the year one right? With that I don't know anything about this stuff. I'll just go all Anna Lim and say 1960 1960 all right We've got them locked in 1941 1951 in 1960 We'd love to tell you who's right, but we don't play that way. We'll be right back Land you started off in 1941 now that you've seen the other guesses. What do you think I got this wrapped up You think so Paulette use our use cocky is is is Len overly confident? Maybe not. Yeah, I feel I feel medium Stephanie your first time doing this Zero confidence you set it with a lot of confidence though. Thank you for I'm trained Here we go. Let's see who is gonna win today's trivia question Diana. Who's it gonna be? Hey there stackers I'm casual caller and connector Joe's mom's cousin Diana and we're going back in time to an inventor Stubblefield made his invention of the first wireless phone official by securing a patent for protection of his work Imagine if Verizon had paid him a ton of money or even AT&T But I guess they were busy at the time spending money on finding blind spots in their network So your phones wouldn't work going down major freeways But here's the question how far back are we going? In what year was the first wireless phone patented by mr. Stubblefield? Well, we've got Stephanie at about 52 years away from the answer not bad We've got Paulette at about 43 years away a little better That Len at just 33 years away is our winner Because the answer is May 12, 1908. Oh my god I was really thinking it was like 1920, but I wanted to give myself some space So that's why I said first though. I was in I really thought it was down there way back when I was so surprised You're researching that 1908 Do you think it was it was 1910 before the first complaint came in or the first? First prank phone call. I don't know. I have a couple patents myself And it takes a while to get a patent so if it was If it was really nice to I Bet you the patent was filed in Probably 1905 or 1904, you know before finally got approved although maybe not maybe back then there wasn't as many patents But who knows but or it might have been a streamline process there might not be a bureaucracy yet these days you file a patent Application and it'll take five six seven years before it even gets awarded Paul at so first Len is bragging about Kentucky fried chicken and now his patents like when's this gonna end? I mean that's mashed potato money right there Biscuits at my house, but all of this because you want with these patents over Len Panso Bring them to me peasant her chance. I shall tip you per chance not I see you have no patents. We're springing today on coleslaw coleslaw For the little people yes, even the veget vegetarian or vegan did you say Stephanie? Vegetarian well, there you go. That the cheese you could do the coleslaw too You can get your and by the way Kentucky fried chicken if you want to sponsor the show I think we've already done some good work for you in advance just call our people time for the second half of our discussion on fighting between good and great this is brought to you by deposit accounts Come from lemon tree. You know what happens when you go to deposit accounts.com Stephanie. I don't you Find out You fucked on that's okay because it is your lucky day Think about your favorite holiday season This is this is gonna be comparable because you go to deposit accounts calm and you find out that those savings account rates So CD rates checking account rates money market rates that you got probably not best in class They compare more than 275,000 different rates from over 11,000 bags of credit unions They do it for free Stephanie. How about that? Well that I do appreciate it's amazing Thank you literally screenshot a picture of all of the interest earned on our savings account year to date and sent it to my husband today and I was like Look at this you like a bang Fantastic just magnify money know that this is you know, what is this called deposit? What it was the lending tree people Who are their parent company who told us hey? You've built up magnify money way way way more than we expected so time to get the sister deposit They're not stealing from magnify money. No boy. I'm glad Len Len rushing to magnify money's defense Well, I feel a certain kinship with magnify money They've been with us for so long That they are there are longest sponsor and now this week it's deposit accounts from the same company deposit accounts calm people All right Let's jump back into this because we talked about the problem of trying to be great and the pressure that it causes and I want to go into Procrastination and Stephanie let's let's start with you Have you found that this pressure to be great causes you to do nothing sometimes and if so, how do you fight through procrastination? I am the worst person to ask about that which means it happens to you I'm incredibly Unproductive and I actually think that It's been interesting during the pandemic because I've released a lot of the shame I used to feel around that and I think a lot of this idea of having to be great and perfect is often conflated with productivity and hustle culture this idea that being great is is some of the things Diana was talking about like all the things on the checklist and what I have found during COVID and this time of space is a lot of the greatest work I feel like I've done has happened in the last couple of years through a space of stepping back and allowing myself to not call it procrastination, but simply just be and and scale back and be introspective and then when I am ready to create something That's when I have to deal with the actual process of procrastinating But I think sometimes a lot of procrastinating gets labeled as procrastinating when it's really a lot of productivity Yeah, and that doesn't necessarily need to be done So I think that was been the first thing for me is like telling myself that I'm a bad person because I am procrastinating all the time and I'm not productive every day It has been something I've let go of and that's allowed me to find the things that I want to strive towards that are more authentic to me as opposed to being some kind of arbitrary metrics of success just giving yourself a little grace Exactly exactly and then there is always the problem still of okay when I actually Do have something to do I now know myself enough to know the only way it's going to happen is with an external deadline So I just accept that like I have I'm done. I'm 36 years old. I am done telling myself I'm going to be a different person tomorrow who wakes up and is self-motivated I am not that person and I'm not going to be and that has been very liberating Because now I know that and so when people reach out to me So I'm not going to get that done until you tell me a date where you need this done by because I know that about myself and it Constraints force me out of procrastination Paul at the external deadline works really well with my ADD because I find my ADD sends me into I'm just going to learn a little bit more before I do anything I'm just going to learn a little more that like this idea that I need to be better educated is truly procrastination Like I know myself full enough body doubling has been huge for me too. What does body do is where you have someone with you? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, like an accountability partner Mm-hmm Sometimes we'll just be on a zoom call and it's just like literally me and my assistant and she's just kind of sitting there I'm like okay And I'm just doing like a screen share and I'm like doing something that I wouldn't do if she weren't just like watching me do it I'm like, sorry You just have to watch me do this right now, but I need to do it Is that also why you you fill your calendar so much because for me the calendar keeps me on task Yeah, I mean, that's just like time blocking, you know and like the things I should be doing every day and Yeah, I just want to do a lot of things and But what is enough is a very good question, you know, that's hard Yeah, I think my calendar is just very full because writers and artists tend to do a lot of things that don't aren't very like income dense So, you know, if I want to get up and I want to write creatively every morning for you know two hours And then we're like a lot it's a lot to be an artist But I got to think too, Paula you're writing something for the New York Times There's this propensity which is also procrastination which would be I'm just gonna revise it one more time. Mm-hmm Yeah, as a journalist. Yeah, that's like, you know the deadline comes deadline happens Yeah, that's where constraints are a lifesaver even something like Instagram which I have been Kind of railing against doing for years and then I finally started forcing myself to say hey You got to just double down and do it and that was the only thing I did for like four months was make Instagram reels And the constraint that it could only be 90 seconds is the only reason I got it done Because there's always I've had the thing where I get assigned an article and I'll just go down the rabbit hole and Unless there's a reason that I I can't make it better. I'll keep trying to make it better It's funny Stephanie's were constraints. We interviewed Don Han who is a producer behind Beauty and the Beast and a bunch of other Disney movies and he and I asked him about man You're the guy with the purse strings now. He used to be an imaginary for Disney and now he's on the other side like Does it feel weird telling these artists? They can't do everything they want to do and he said exactly Stephanie what you said an artist with constrict without constraints will never get anything done So never getting that he's like we'll just keep building castles in the sky. It just keeps going Len on your run. How do you fight procrastination or did you find during your career? He had procrastination. You know when I was younger I was very guilty of procrastinating and you know what I did that broke the habit Believe it or not another co-worker of mine Shared this with me and actually he had it on it above his desk and that he used it for himself to stop procrastinating He had a picture of a dragon on his desk and it had the title it said slay your dragons and that was a constant reminder to him to do all the tasks You know don't let things linger and slay your dragons and I did that myself after he told me that and it works It's like whenever I felt like procrastinating I would look at that picture of that dragon and it would remind me that hey get off your butt You have things you have to do and get them done. I Mean it sounds stupid, but it worked at least for it worked for me and it worked for my co-workers It was very effective. There's a quote in this piece. I haven't talked a lot about this piece that inspired this this discussion But there's a quote here Zen master thick not Han offers that true success means feeling content with the unfolding of your life It is quote finding happiness in your work and life in the here and the now Stephanie Did that resonate with you when you read that? Yes, but I would take more issue within the way the piece was framed was the idea that that is somehow antithetical to striving I think a word to borrow from Michelle Obama here. That's helpful for me is the idea of becoming it's Becoming connected and content and feeling like you're realizing your full potential for me is something that I I Want to feel every day it feels good not because I'm chasing an arbitrary metric because but because that process of growth is Very satisfying and I think it's just part of meaning making that we do as humans Just like we grow in our relationships We grow with the things that we value and I think that's the reason you see people who are incredibly successful Particularly in the arts they'll create for the remainder of their careers not because they need to win some more kind of awards Not because they need more money, but they are called to that. So I think there's something to Having both I think as you're talking it just it reminds me of something I heard a few months ago Stephanie Which was it was a crit and once again I wish I I wish I could quote this person because I think this is pretty brilliant It's us is a verb instead of us is a noun when we think about ourselves as a noun where a set This is what I am. I'm this pillar this edifice and I'm not on this moving motion thing And this this particular person and again, I wish I knew who it was This particular person though said that professionals Professionals do the thing and they take pride in the fact that this is what I do so I'm a human being in action I'm not the end result in amateur looks at the end result and gets all freaked out and procrastinates because they wanted to be perfect The professional just does it every day. That's what they do I remember listening to a show about a TV writer and he's like I write TV and we we got a new show every week I don't have time to procrastinate like I got it's that same external deadline thing that you're talking about Let's pivot this away from workplace to money I mean obviously making money is what we're talking about here with what we've discussed so far But a lot of people listening to this think they might not be great with money and it might freeze them from opening a Roth IRA Or heck even a savings account or whatever it might be Len how do you in areas of your financial life where you think you might not be? Wonderful still get around that and make some pretty savvy moves Well, I can invest in that's one of the biggest ones It's it and we go back to the delegates There's certain things that I want to invest in that I'm just not good at you know I want to get into a certain sector or something that I'm not I don't know who to choose what what companies to pick And I don't want to spend the time that takes to do the research So I delegate out and I get a fund that's managed by an expert You could also go right to the index fund land I mean you could really in a lot of you know for a lot of people who could go right to an index fund with that by all 500 companies you're right you can do that But if you're looking for better returns if you're trying to beat the index, you know, you're trying to beat the nice comfortable Return of an index fund you want to you want to do better than that Then you have to you really have to do some research for that you need experts. So that's just one area Another thing I will do is like for example With the perfect being the enemy of good when you're like comparison shopping I know a lot of people that will comparison shop there they're shopping for things and they will spend Months trying to find for like a car or something to find the exact best price You know to save that extra hundred dollars to get before they pull the trigger on that car Is it really worth it for you know to say that extra hundred dollars? You know get two or three estimates four estimates and you're done Don't spend you know four months researching a car you want you need the car get the car What's a couple hundred bucks on a huge forty thousand fifty thousand dollar purchase, right? So that's another thing I think about people as you're talking people Missing hundred dollar bills because they're so busy picking up pennies, you know, right? That's right. Yeah, Paul. How about you? What do you do money wise to I think just automate, you know and Get social with it where you have some kind of accountability some kind of external accountability. I mean God, there's a like an ADHD and neurodivergent finance group that I just joined on Facebook and it is Very enlightening and in a way feels great and they're constantly changing the subject No, they're all about like how much credit card that they have and how much they spend on stupid stuff over and over and over and you're just like Oh, yeah, I belong here and this is the last way I really want to belong with like everyone who keeps just like feels hopeless So it's just like continuing to come back to square one, you know and automate as much as you can And you said before you use like a robot for some of your stuff, right? Yeah so I do betterment and send my like hundred dollars every week and Send payments to credit cards every week and you know and then you just start to see Your bank account without that money or your paycheck without that money as the floor You know you just adjust and you're so used to not having that so I Think that's really helpful and then just getting help where you need like my Formula for outsourcing are things that are really important and things that I've always struggled with so I have a personal trainer That I work with because I've always had a hard time like making myself work out And so now I like work out five to six times a week It's great and it's just like I know Hamilton's waiting for me. So that really helps and then You know just things like having a very cool meeting going on a Broadway show Hmm. I thought when you said Hamilton's waiting for you. I'm like so you're working out so you're going on a Broadway show Hamilton lives in Columbia I worked out six days a week. Oh It's a different it's a purse. I got it. Yeah, I'm sorry and then with a very important meeting I know if people waiting for me to meditate and get my writing done and you know just creating those structures And I think that the more like when we're bad at something we want to run away And that's where you really have to kind of you know actually lean into it. I heard this thing about how like buffalo Know that if a storm is coming they run toward the storm because they'll get through it faster Rather than running away from it, right? So it's like you have to run toward the storm and just be like and that's where that vulnerability comes in and being willing to say I really struggle with this and I need help It's a great analogy. I love that analogy. I'm gonna steal it from you, Paulette I don't want to Google it make sure I got it right whether it's right or not I heard someone recently say run toward the stress You know if there's a stress in your life run toward it meet it head-on be vulnerable find help I absolutely love that Stephanie how about you you hear this from people all the time, right? I mean when I was on your show you've got it every week You've got somebody who's trying to solve a problem. What's the truth you found there? I find people think of themselves and their financial situation as a Reflection of their identity and who they are as a person as opposed to a behavior Yeah, like every moment is an opportunity for a new behavior, but if you internalize something as your identity It's a fixed like you think of identity as fixed and if you attribute your money Habits are outcomes to that instead of to behavior. It's very hard to make changes So one of the ways I get people to break out of that is to identify what they're doing right and I don't care how small it is I don't care how much debt they're in I don't care You know what they think is the worst situation they've gotten themselves into there is always something they're doing right and it's much easier I find for people to start building from that space then it is just sharp building from a place of I'm just bad at money and it is the way it is and it will always be and I think for me a lot of that is about being curious You know we were talking before about getting over procrastination and I talked about constraints and Sometimes I think we hear money advice and if somebody said oh add constraints people be like well that doesn't work for me And that's okay like just get curious about what does for me like body doubling doesn't work I know that I know that for me trying to do eat the frogs lay the dragon It doesn't work and I think for a lot of us when it comes to money We hear these things and we're like oh it doesn't work for me So that means that that that confirms my belief that it's me that I'm bad at money It were instead if I get curious about it and I think about okay, where is this pattern showing up? How does it keep happening? How does it make me feel what happens before? Maybe then I can find what actually is going to work for me It's so much more fun because then it becomes a science experiment Stephanie It is and it's up and you can't solve that in a spreadsheet, right? And it's hard because oftentimes that's where we do a lot of the work But you got to get out of the the cells of the spreadsheet to figure out a lot of this stuff Diana how about you? You know the thing that I think is so cool about money is that it is literally the only thing in life that you can Completely mess up and still be totally fine You can lose all your money. You can go through a bankruptcy You can get into a ton of debt. You can make bad business decisions and lose your business Right? I mean this happens to people and there's a lot of shame around that Money is an in personal Dispassionate tool right you can screw it up and you could fix it You can't say the same thing about relationships your health the things that are really important in life And so I think people get confused about that right? They see money as a goal and they see money as a representation of their Self-worth right don't confuse your net worth with your self-worth people confuse that and It just creates a lot of shame and a lot of Negativity versus just recognizing that this is all fixable. So for me I really agree with Stephanie that you know when I started Figuring out my money situation. I was letting my curiosity be bigger than my fear And I ran the credit report and I saw that I was 30 grand in debt and I had no idea That was a wake-up call But if I didn't have that curiosity to just look then I would have never been able to start the process of Unraveling and then rebuilding I love this idea to of working from a place of strength instead of trying to fix yourself I get some great coaching from a group called strategic coach And that is was one of their first lessons when I started with them a few years ago was if you're gonna always work on the things That you suck at your you might come up to the middle, but if you work at what you're great at You will have exponential results plus it's so much more fun, you know working from what you actually enjoy doing It's been a fantastic conversation guys. Thank you so much for hanging out and for having this I think we hopefully inspired a lot of people today. Let's find out what's happening where all of you are Let's start today. Paulette. We'll start with you. What's going on in the Paulette per hatch world Well worked on a piece for the New York Times about the future of chat GPT and financial advice So that was really interesting. Yeah, but if you had I mean writing for the New York Times is fine But if you overhead Kentucky fried chicken delivered to your home Well listen, I mean, I'm not like a staff a staffer Okay, or like an editor then maybe I would just some mere freelancer Okay, I schlep it over ticket tucky fried chicken to dig through the trash cans outside I said that specifically to get a rise out of limp Enzo and it's not happening. You just nope Still not happening anyway, sorry Paulette. So Peace for the New York Times. That's all big deal. What else you got going on and Working on coaching and your personal editor and helping people become better writers And that's been great among I've had 75 coaching clients now when we said wow Congratulations. Yeah, those are 75 lucky people if somebody wants to be number 76. Where do they go? That writer Paulette calm there it is Diana. You just had a guest on the podcast with us I Just had a get what you just showed us a get we had a guest on the podcast I'm that was literally two seconds ago, and I'm like, what are you talking about? Yeah, my cat wanted to join the show That's nibbles. She's a short term memory loss Nipples nibbling away at your gotta say that real carefully. Yes. Yes. Yes Diana your nibbles are showing Next year's economy conference if people want to get in on this I think they should move quickly. Oh, where do we go? So economy conference calm and remember that economy is spelled with an M E not an M Y and We've got a special offer for stackers 10% off with the discount code stacking Benjamin's all caps one word will get you 10% off how awesome is that because we know Diana? We got you a special deal Joe's mom's she negotiated that for you on your behalf She did we can't do that mom did yeah, Diana. Thanks so much. Mr. Penzo. What's going on at lampenzo.com first off? I'm wondering if Diana could have picked a longer. I mean a shorter discount code I mean, why not anti disestablishmentarianism or something? I mean my goodness Mom it would have been often your keyboard runs out of power before you get it Change it, but we published it already We've already published it. Oh, well, yeah, we've already said it elsewhere otherwise Joe's mom But next year day Funny but for this year it's stacky Benjamin's people all caps. All right, let what's going on to lampenzo.com You know what I I'm talking about junk mail this week at lenpensa.com And I found a great way to stop it if so if you still get tired of getting all that crappy junk mail in your mailbox I've found a couple solutions that I have tried out and I can already say they work 100% so stop on by lenpensa.com And find out is it give everybody your neighbor's address I need this there's this horrifying like coupon mailer that's always folded in the same way and on the rounded folder on the top It's some kind of life alert thing But it's always this woman like mid fall in the shower making this horrifying face and so I opened my mailbox He's like and I'm like oh my god stop sending me this It's like once a week for months now I'm like if I just see this old woman falling in the shower one more freaking time. I'm gonna kill someone so That's not that's not funny. Paul it because that's not junk mail for me. That's that's the stuff I keep listen I don't know how I got on the same list as you len but okay have their demographics incorrect Paul let's get your mail in I mean when that I'm getting that like you know what as I'm getting the solo choker They're like, you know de choke yourself. They're like we see you signed up for dating apps again Have you considered not dying in your apartment next time you order kfc by yourself? Delivered should you get a big check in the mail some kind of windfall Here here's how to not be eaten alive by your cat. Hamilton know you're doing this Choke out on a biscuit Stephanie you guys have amazing conversations At money confidential, but do you have conversations that involve kfc and not joking yourself? I mean I'm really trying to reflect on it probably not We we got to step up our game to match what's happening here. I guess I guess so thanks so much for finally hanging out with us It's about time. Well, thanks for the invite. It's a pleasure. Well, you got to tell us, you know Nobody's listening is just us. Yeah, right? What's what's something secret that's happening at money confidential? Nobody else knows about that you can break here. I really wish I had something to tell you Racking my brain. I was even going back through my Instagram as you were all sharing updates And I was like, I don't know the last thing I did about anything. I went to the Galapagos. Okay Just the Galapagos Just the Galapagos, but it's not really, you know cutting it's not writing for the New York Times Well, if you're not gonna break anything here then Stephanie will just tell people to go just pause and go and Subscribe or follow Money confidential and it's wherever you get your podcast. So webby winning podcast and it's long overdue News that just happened Congratulations. It's so amazing. Yeah, it was great when I saw when I saw that you and Nicole Lappin who's another person I absolutely love were up I was like, you know, those are not the usual names that you see for those awards and I was like these guys are actually paying attention I was shocked. I had no idea. This was coming Super Stephanie you've got to follow the Stacey Johnson Rule vote now because now that you've won that webby you have a nice shelf back there I can see and the webby is not prominently displayed. I got it. You know what though, you know what the issue is it's technically Not my chef. Oh, but they gotta say you is statue. Right? You got to get a statue. It's your fault We've won a few awards and I haven't received any of them. You know one star One of the things is you could just buy yourself an award you can buy yourself a trophy like I've thought about when my imposter syndrome I'm gonna go manufacture some trailing when my imposter is an inflater I'm like I want to get myself two of those corporate awards. It's just a like million Reader viral story considering I got like 200 for the first one and 440 dollars for the next one Like I want a damn trophy I want a trophy so that I can remember that I did that because it's so invisible because I actually am the best I'm not just striving And at least I know it right? We're contradicting ourselves here. All right. It's time for us to go unfortunately guys Man, there's a lot of takeaways today, but diana I think can you distill it to three? What should we have learned today? First take some advice from our panel. What's more important? Getting the thing in front of you done As joe's mom says don't let perfect be the enemy of good And second you can't bully yourself into being a better person. It just doesn't work So how about being a little nicer to yourself? But the big lesson It turns out that you've got to drain the green bean cans before you put them up to your ears If you want to hear anything, that's the way it works. That's the way it works Lesson learned Thanks to stephanie o'connel rodriguez for joining us today. You'll find her show money confidential wherever you're listening to us right now We'll also include links in our show notes at stackingbenjamins.com Thanks also to paul at per hatch for joining us Need help with your writing or editing to power up your messaging? Head to that writer paulet.com And thank you to len penzo for joining us. You'll find len as always at lenpenso.com We're glad you joined us today, but want to hang out in person with other like-minded individuals My party about money called the economy conference will be in sincinati march 15th through 17th of 2024 and tickets are already Selling fast in fact one hotel block is already sold out Head to economyconference.com to join us and use code stackingbenjamins all caps one word for 10 percent off You're welcome This show is the property of sb podcast llc copyright 2023 and is created by joe sall sehigh Our producer is karen repine. This show was written by joe sall sehigh with help from me Doc g from the urnan and vest podcast and lacey langford from the military money show kevin balee helps us take a deeper dive into all the topics covered on each episode in our newsletter called the 201 You'll find the 411 on all things money at the 201 just go to stackingbenjamins.com slash 201 Tina eichenberg makes the video version of the show Once we bottle up all this goodness, we ship it to our engineer the amazing steve steward steve helps the rest of our team sound nearly as good as i do right now Want to chat with friends about the show later mom's friend gertrude and kate yunken are our social media Coordinators and gertrude is the room mother of our facebook group called the basement So say hello when you see us posting online To join all the basement fun with other stackers type stackingbenjamins.com slash basement Not only should you not take advice from these nerds don't take advice from people you don't know This show is for entertainment purposes only before making any financial decisions speak with a real financial advisor Um, joe's mom's cousin diana from the economy conference and we'll see you next time back here on the stacking benjamin show Dissecting politics with exclusive interviews commentary and humor useful idiots with katie help her and erin moate I really don't like sharks and I think we live in a very shark agandistic world Well, one thing to keep in mind is sharks are not out there trying to eat surfers and swimmers They'd much rather eat fish but in many cases they mistake us for their actual prey when they do bite They usually move on that's supposed to make us feel better useful idiots wherever you listen You You , you , you , you , you You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You Stephanie I just put Into chat GPT. I'm writing an article This is in this like who should I interview and you were one of the people that it recommended. What? Wow. That's wild. This is the chat GPT version of Len Penzo, right? Chat LPT. That's pure AI. LPT. There's got to be some other chat. Like there's a joke there, Paul. I hate them for naming it that like you know we're all going to say it over and over. Why would you make us say something so clumsily like we just call it chatty. There's got to be the three letters. There's like a joke that's three letters that I don't know it's right there. Chat. OPP. Chat. I don't know. Yeah. We did that joke. All right. Len, how are you, man? I'm great. I expected you to come back speaking Spanish. 18 days and I'm fluent. I'm very fluent. Awesome. I am fluent in the word Roha. Why? What happened? Like more Roha, please. Oh, the wine. Yes. In Colombia, this is my favorite. So randomly, I followed the Medici. That's very good Spanish. Aaron Lauer's like, hey, my friend Stephanie's about to be in Medici. I was like right outside of it. So Stephanie ended up coming out and we're riding horses and someone says like, oh, they call this like an air potato. And I was like, oh cool. And I look at it and I hand it to Stephanie. And then I turned back to the guy and I was like, oh, they call me. Like, and people eat it and he goes, no. And then I just hear and Stephanie taken the bite. And then you get out. Okay.