Pennies to Prosperity: Unleashing Financial Wizardry with Erin Lowry, the 'Not-So-Broke' Millennial

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Plus, we'll throw out the haven lifeline to a lucky stacker, and don't worry, because I'm always up for serving up another dose of my amazing trivia. And now, two guys who put the fun in financial planning, actually don't think there's fun in that word, but I could be wrong. It's Joe and oh, J-J-J-J-J-J-J-J! Well, that's why we have to put it in, Doug. We have to put the fun into financial planning. Hey, everybody, changing the alphabet for the win podcast right here. I'm Joe Salcy. Hi, I'm Joe Money on Twitter, and across the card table from me, the guy bringing it on the Wednesday, Mr. OG. How are you, man? Fantastico. Get to teach my kid how to jump start a card this afternoon. Oh, that's so funny. Well, you know what? Erin Lowery's here to jump start this podcast. I see what you did there. She's going to be teaching people how to jump start their lives. Oh, wow. They're financial lives. Yes. Wow, he's all excited about the good segue he came up with, and he's going to milk this. Here we go. We're going to talk about buying stuff. Oh, I'm in. Where have you got to buy stuff now? You always see there like, you could pay $85 or $116 payments of $4 starting next month. You don't have to pay anything to it. Yes, a firm. It's amazing. A firm. I have firm that I will make these payments. Klarna, the way that people are buying stuff today. By the way, you know how, you know how cows buy their clothing. They use a catalog, a catalog. Dad's feel free to use that. Barrow that from me. They impressed the whole family with that one. You know what? That's not nearly as good, Doug. I know you're shaking your head, guys. Not nearly as good. Let's ramp it up and let's give people this. I don't know about you, but on a holiday week like this week, I'm stocking up because I want to be the host with the most. I know that we're concerned with stacking bedrooms. We're also concerned with making sure we get a great value. We are able on a key weekend like this coming weekend to stack great experiences with our friends and family. For that reason, there's always something new to try it. Total wine and more. Nobody's got a better selection of Italian wine, the total wine and more. The new St. Giorgio Tuscan wines from the Castellani family are now available, a total wine and more. For 120 years, the Castellani family has been dedicated to the craft of traditional Italian wine making, producing top quality wines for incredible value. Bottlestar at $9.99. Many rated over $90. Vino Nobile rated at $96. Chiante Classico Reserva rating in $96. Oh my goodness, Italian food and the Chiante Classico. And a Tiscana IGT super tusk and Si Meup rating of $97. With the lowest prices for over 30 years, always find what you love and love what you find only at Total Wine and more. Drink responsibly, B21. We're all juggling life, a career and trying to build a little bit of wealth. The Brown Ambition podcast with host Mandy and Tiffany, the budget needs to can help. How can I protect myself? I'm identity theft. I think the first thing is to be aware of what fishing attempts look like. So check that email address. But now it's like coming to your text. You guys fishing text now? Girl, yes. Talking about this virus. I'm like, girl, so you texting now? Oh my. With your lack of funding. Brown Ambition. Wherever you listen. Is that the appropriate rinse to get that dead joke out of your head? Yeah, it was a palette cleanser. Thanks for that. Erid Lowry waiting for us. But first we're going to talk about buying stuff with no money. The game's a change. And so let's go. Hello, doggings. And now it's time for your favorite part of the show. Our stacking Benjamin's headlines. This piece is from the Wall Street Journal, written by Amani Mois. Some by now pay later users face rejection, OG rejection. It turns out this idea that you can hand just anybody free stuff and tell them, no, we got you. You'll pay later. Don't worry about just take this stuff out of the store. You can pay next month. Turns out some people were, uh, didn't really care about their credit. Just wanted the free, you know, the free stuff today. Free free. Right. Right. Free air quotes. Amani writes, some users by now pay later apps may face something new when they try to use the payment method, rejection, higher interest rates and recession concerns. Can they just do this when you're like, I would like to buy that peloton. Like it should have to play like, wouldn't that be the awesomest way to kind of take the edge off? You know, you're ever crumby and you're trying to get yourself a nice checkered shirt for for the summer? A little something to tune up the wardrobe and they're like, sir, that'll be $67 and 11 cents. You're like, I'd like to put it on my credit card and you swipe it and it just goes like, sorry, I have to leave. Oops. I will put my head down. Time to date. Higher interest rates and recession concerns are challenging the business model behind services such as a firm, Klarna and Cecil. I've never heard of Cecil. Cecil puts the E in Sizzle. Apparently S E Z E L E, which, which say, what do we want to call this? We can't call it Sizzle. We'll call it Sizzle, which say they're tightening credit standards to focus on making a profit. It's weird. Companies actually want to make a profit. Going around. It's so weird. It's so strange. Oh, gee, I was questioning these initially, like these companies, a firm, Klarna and Cecil, I know that people thought, hey, these are great things. And man, you saw people flock to these apps, right? I mean, they wouldn't stay in business if people weren't using them consistently. But it turns out that maybe you might not want to use them at all. Well, I'm just kind of curious. I'm like, you know, all the metrics behind the system because it seems like it's pretty much ubiquitous now on any sort of online option, right? You go online to buy something. You can pay for it with your credit card. You can Apple pay it, which is basically with your credit card, or you can click here to buy it through, like you said, through a firm or whatever. It didn't seem like ever a bad deal relative to interest rate. And so I guess what they're doing now is they're saying, hey, we got to, we got to tighten this up. We got to add some interest to make some money. And it's going to be less attractive to people. I mean, it shows up on your credit report. So that's not great. So is the difference between, I've never used any of those options is the difference between Klarna or a firm and your credit card, a lower interest rate? Otherwise, what's there's no interest Doug, just payment. If you pay on time, there is no interest. The key is hallelujah. Yeah. But if you mess up for any reason, according to this piece, there are interest rates is high as 30%. If you miss it, you know, it's similar to going to like the furniture store and they go, it's, you know, no interest, no payments for 90 days and same as cash for two years or something, you know, you got to make a minimum payment. And at the end of that period, you better have paid it off. Otherwise, all that retroactive interest gets added on type deal. So you know, it's easier. You just sleep on Joe's couch. Yeah. Save the money. Cash or something that looks a lot like cash. It reminds me guys of that classic SNL skit with Amy Poehler and Steve Martin. I just can't get these numbers to add up. Like we're never going to get out of this hole. Credit card debt. Does it ever end? Maybe I can help. We sure could use it. We've tried debt consolidation companies. We've even taken out loans to help make payments. Well, you're not the only ones. Did you know millions of Americans live with debt they cannot control? That's why I developed this unique new program for managing your debt. It's called don't buy stuff you cannot afford. Let me see that. If you don't have any money, you should not buy anything. Sounds interesting. Sounds confusing. I don't know, honey. This makes a lot of sense. There's a whole section here on how to buy expensive things using money you save. Give me that. And where would you get this saved money? I tell you where and how in chapter three. Okay, but what if I want something but I don't have any money? You don't bug it. Well, let's say I don't have enough money to buy something. Should I buy it anyway? No. It's so confusing. But what if I really want it and I don't have the money? If you shouldn't buy it. SNL, SNL just negated the need for a whole segment of podcast. Right there. It's that simple. We could have gotten rid of the whole headline. Hey, well, it's like a journal could have just published this. Yes. Don't use clarinet. Just don't buy stuff you can't afford. It's weird that maybe you hold off until you can actually afford one star for that whole experience. Not fun. We will link to affect a budgeting strategies. Then you wouldn't have the stress of trying to make payments every month. And that stress in your life is what we're all looking for. Maybe we need to make our own commercial that goes with that. How else are you getting motivated to go to work? Are you bored at work? Go buy something you can't afford that has payments for a really long time. I'm in debt up to my eyeballs. Oh, that was a great, great. I love that whole ad campaign. You will find in our newsletter, the 201 a deeper dive into this topic about the problem with overspending the problem with using these apps to get yourself in maybe too deep. And then also solutions for budgeting or as our friend, Ramit Sadie calls it conscientious spending. Gosh, he just who was spending. Yes. It's a $500 phrase coming up next. Aaron Lowry is the broke millennial. She several years ago, man, she was a force of nature right from the beginning with her first book broke millennial. Of course, broke millennial on investing. And then her third book about talking about money and actually having conversations about money. She's got a new workbook out. We're going to ask her questions from the workbook. We're going to dive into the early part of that to see how much we can glean and help get people on the right path with their money. By the way, we did this interview live on Instagram. And so Aaron in one part gets a little wobbly. So I will apologize at a time. But the things that she says in this interview are so good. You're going to love this next 20 minutes after you love what Doug has to say in his trivia. Doug, give him some love and buddy. Ah, okay, Joe. Hey, there stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And today I'm working on improving my credit report of a crested mine. You know, it's free from annual credit report.com. Let me see here. No, hey, this looks like good news. First, I'm scoring 140. I didn't even know it was possible to do better than 100. I must be getting extra credit for all that shopping I do. Okay. Even even better news. They say it's good to have a lot of write offs. Looks like a few companies are reporting that they've written off my debt to them. Bingo. I'm about to do some research. What is the number one thing you can do to improve your credit? So it's like mine. I'll be back right after I go open a bottle of Joe's mom's champagne to celebrate. Stackers, this is so funny. If you're somebody who likes intelligent conversations like stacking vegments, but you have kids and you want to get them interested in the world around them, who's who's smarted? Which is by the way, the best name for a podcast for kids. And this is great. Who's smart as the world's funniest educational podcast for families from history to science to pop culture? They make learning fun for the whole family. It's beloved by homeschool families and classroom teachers for its ability to spark conversations and natural curiosity is the perfect link for car rides or fun educational breaks during the day. They have more than 300 original episodes. Everyone under 20 minutes impact with great stories and real facts from guy with their amazing voice. They're trusty narrator. You've got to listen to this guy and what it is such a great show. I've been addicted myself and here's the deal. My kids are 28 now. So I can't make the excuse that I'm listening for other people. I'm listening for me. So listen to the most recent episode, just the titles. What's the biggest fish in the ocean? Our chickens, third cousins to T-Rex. By the way, of course, the answer is going to be different than you might think it is. How do invasive species invade? Is a Pacific garbage patch a floating island of trash? How do countries pick their national symbol? It's all over the place. And by the way, how did Loosen Clark become famous American explorers? My favorite board games, Loosen Clark, and they cover all of this with intelligence, but very fun and very appropriate for the whole family. So if you want to be a smart parent, look cool for your kids. Make sure your kids have fun learning who's smarted available wherever you're listening to us now. Just search for who's smarted. Where are you listening to us now? Hey there, stackers. I'm master, deck creator and not so secret shopper. Joe's mom's neighbor dug. So I will not be opening Joe's mom's champagne to celebrate my over 100 credit score for two reasons. First, she informed me that a 140 credit score isn't as great as it sounds to the average working man. And when I asked about the champagne sheet, she said no. So maybe I need this trivia answer as much as the next guy. Here was the question, what is the number one thing you can do to improve your credit score? Because 35% of your credit score is your payment history. Just make payments on time. The second, biggest, is utilization. So try to pay down your cards and not use them as much. Easier said than done when the old El Camino's always asking for upgrades like a, you know, a bitch in stereo, a desperately needed lube job or frivolous stuff like seatbelts. But we'll find a way people, you and me together, we're gonna figure it out. You with me? And now someone who's here to help all of us, the woman behind broke millennial, Aaron Lowry. And I'm super happy she's back here with us. It's about time. My favorite person I never feel like I get to talk to enough. Aaron Lowry from broke millennials here. How are you? I'm doing well. Also, I just want to address up top for those of us watching live. We've had a few comments come in about audio. It's being recorded. It'll be great afterwards. So sorry, it lagged. We'll fix it in post, right? We're gonna do it live. This is the first time we've done an interview live on Instagram. So for anybody that wants to join us next time, just follow Stacking Benjamin's podcast on Instagram. But I don't want to talk about that, Aaron, I want to talk about you. Let's talk about you. You write something in the book that surprised the hell out of me. You wrote in, I think it was the second chapter, I have an intense scarcity mindset with money. Where the hell does that come from? And tell me, what does that look like in action? Well, one of the most common ways it looks like in action for many folks is the desire to hoard money and trouble with spending money. So even on something that you want or might very much align with your value set, it still can be really hard to actually make the commitment to spend scarcity mindset. What I find so interesting about it is that a lot of times you hear folks will talk about it because of a way that you grew up. Maybe you grew up in an environment where money was scarce and therefore you feel this need in your adulthood to hoard it. What's interesting for me is that was not the case. I grew up in a financially stable home. But as my dad will admit, he has a bit of a scarcity mindset around money. So it can also come about a little bit with how a parent might talk about money. And it was never about like, we don't have enough. That's language that I think is very damaging to use, especially with children, because it can, first of all, can scare them. They don't necessarily have context for what you're talking about. But it could just basically be more about like wanting to oversave, almost wanting to hoard in certain ways, the way that narratives can be spoken about with money. Hard to say if this is nature or nurture, I am very much a delayed gratification person. If you have ever heard of the marshmallow test, I am the person who had no problem waiting for the second marshmallow. If you are not familiar, you've got 87 marshmallows, ported in the back of you right now. Here's the thing. My sister actually really knew how to play the game. So for those of you who are not familiar with the marshmallow test, it's a psychological test that people do usually on like toddlers, maybe five years old, where you put a marshmallow or a candy of equivalent value in front of a child and say, if you don't touch this, when I come back, I'll give you a second one. But if you eat it right now, that's it. You don't get a second one. Parent, what is it like experimental educator, whomever it is, leaves the room, person leaves the room, waits usually like three to five minutes depending on how long you want to torture the child. And then you come back. If the marshmallow is gone, they're done. If it's there, they get a second. But my mom did this to us when we were, I think when I was three and then again, when my sister was three, I just sat there, waited for the marshmallow. That's fine. My sister picked it up, licked it, put it down, licked it, put it down. It's like technically didn't eat it. So she got the second one, but did someone enjoy it in the process, which I think is awesome. Wait a minute. She's like, I didn't inhale the marshmallow thing. Yeah, but it just licked the marshmallow, but I did inhale it. And it's hard. You know, there's, there's been a lot of talk later about the validity of the marshmallow test. That's a whole other conversation. But I am somebody who my whole life likes to wait till the end. Like my birthday, I like to open presents at the end of the night. I don't want to open presents at the start of the day. I want to savor everything about an experience like that. And that I think also ties a little bit into my scarcity mindset where I famously like gift cards go bad. Like I will wait so long to use a gift card that it expires before I use it because I'm waiting for like the perfect time to use something or to do something as opposed to just using it. So scarcity mindset can be a bit of a conundrum when it comes to handling your money. Because you might think it sounds good because you have saved. But if you also don't use it as a tool, it can be a problem. Well, the reason that surprised me so much about you is because of the fact that you, you are somebody who I knew came from a stable background, stable financial background, and that your family didn't have any problems with money. And my family, my dad is a spender, has always been a spender. And I'm exactly the same. I can't have any money in my wallet ever, or it is gone immediately. I would inhale the marshmallow. I don't care about the second marshmallow. The second you set it down, that marshmallow is in my mouth that it is gone. But it's funny how how different people are so different, even though you and I both came from very stable, stable places. I think about my twins on trips to Disney. I got this great advice. Give your kids an allowance so that they don't beg, right? Because every ride ends in a gift shop. So give them an allowance every day. And they could either take it all home. They can spend it on one big thing at the end of the trip, or they can spend every day. My son came home with all of his money, Aaron. And my daughter every day spent hers about four minutes after she got it. And these are twins. So I think that what you're doing here in the workbook, it seems to me is kind of hashing through that, right? Because you got to know, you got to know yourself. Like, I'm the opposite of Dave Ramsey, where Dave says, never have credit. If I have any cash in my wallet, what cash is an accountable, my credit is accountable. So I won't spend money on a credit card, but I will with cash. But I feel like that's kind of what you're doing here with the new workbook. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, first of all, money we all know at this point is way more psychology than anything else. Like, so much about how we handle our personal finances has to do with how we emotionally relate to money and to our surroundings, right? So if you don't have an understanding of how and why you relate to certain things, then it's going to be really hard for you to figure out a strategy for how to handle your money. So a huge part of broke millennial workbook at the very front is helping you figure out, what do I think about money? Why do I think that way about money? And how is that an asset? But also, how might I need to play a little bit of defense with my own mental programming when it comes to finances? I want to walk through some of the exercises that are in there and some of the findings that you have in there. But before we get there, how long ago did broke millennial come out? The first book. I think it's six. 2017. That's six. Yes. Hold on. Yeah. Fingers, thumbs. I was like, was it a 2016 or 17? The deal was in 16. The book was in 17. I can't believe that's been six years. What is it from that very first book? What was the thing from broke millennial that it surprises you that people don't talk about more? Like there's got to be something you wrote in broke millennial where you're like, how come how come this never got any traction and really should? Oh, that's a really good question. I think one thing that surprises me the most is how often someone that I know has read the first book will ask me where to put their savings. I think that especially a book one me talking about back then it was 1% if you want a savings account. If your money is at 0.01% if you want, you're doing it wrong. Earn money on your savings. Now we're like 3.75. But I do think that the conversation around picking better financial products hasn't proved in the last six years. But I do think that conversation still does not get enough traction because a lot of people will talk about the savings space. Not enough people talk about the other side of, all right, well, where is your checking account? How does that bank behave? How does that bank treat customers who maybe aren't as diligent with their money as you? Like to me, having conversations around the ethics of banking, it's a tough thread to pull because it's a bit complicated. But it is really important to understand and know who you're banking with, how they treat people, and how they're going to treat you. And let me tell you, if you are not getting well over 1% APY, so interest on your savings account, that is one area where I will say you are my friend doing it wrong. We could see some improvement there. Another area in the workbook you draw attention to where people I think are getting it wrong is in credit cards. In fact, in the chapter on credit score, you say that there is a, there's this nasty, nasty, nasty lie that people believe about credit cards. Do you remember what this is? Or maybe not that maybe the right words not lie. Maybe it's just a myth around credit cards. I mean, it's also an outright lie because it does get perpetuated and it's not true. So I have heard people say to folks that you should carry a balance on your credit card month to month. That is bad advice. It is patently untrue. You do not need to carry a balance over month to month. If you have a balance when your statement comes in, great, then pay it off on time and in full. There's never need to only pay a little bit or not pay off the whole thing and carry over a balance month to month. This can be a little hard to explain as opposed to visually seeing. But just trust me, when your credit card statement comes in, pay it off on time and in full every single month, you do not need to carry over anything from month to month. It's good to just have a balance to begin with. And then the good deeds for your credit score have been done. Do not pay interest. You do not need to pay interest to grow and develop your solid credit score. Well, you have a whole chapter then on how to use credit cards. It has a funny title, something like, oh, this is how I use credit cards. I don't remember exactly, but it's a pretty funny title. How do we use credit cards the right way, Erin? Well, the number one thing is to, okay, there's two things I'm going to get into. One, obviously, I'm saying this with full recognition that sometimes people do leverage credit cards when they're in a bind and they do end up in credit card debt. But if we're talking purely from the situation of like best practices for using one, the first step is to know what your credit limit is. So let's say that you can spend $1,000 a month on that credit card. The next step is to not spend more than 30% of your available credit limit. So if you have $1,000 credit limit, we're not spending more than $300 a month on that credit card. That to the credit scoring bureau is like, oh, so sexy. We do not want to spend more than 30%. Single digits, they're going to be weak at the knees. If you can stay under 10%, they'll be like, oh, can't resist, must swipe. Yes, absolutely. Keep that in mind. Do not use more than 30% of your available credit limit. Even if you think it looks responsible, it's like max it out, but pay it off on time and in full, you're never carrying debt. You might think that looks good because you're like, hey, I can use it, and I can pay it off. Isn't that great? Not to them. They set the rules. I can't tell you why. They want 30% or less of your available credit limit. The other big key here, do not spend more than you can afford to pay off in a month. And I'm not just saying that flippantly is like, just don't have credit card debt. Credit card debt is a crusher. We're talking for some people upwards of nearly 30% interest rates on these things. So trying to avoid credit card debt, or if you find yourself in credit card debt, aiming to get out of that as fast as possible is really critical because that is one way that all of a sudden it just gets completely away from you, and it's a debt that can just compound so quickly because the interest rates can be so high. Well, how do you feel about the credit card reward game? You know what? I use it. That's part of how we went to Japan in the next vacation. So I do like credit card rewards because it can kind of be seen as like this nice little perk for having healthy credit behaviors, but it only pays off if you do not have debt. Because as soon as you start carrying debt, I promise you those rewards are not going to be worth what you're paying for them because again, the interest rates on these cards are often in the high 20, sometimes even tipping towards 30%. So if you're getting 3%, 5% cash back or types of points, even if your point is like 10x, it's not going to pay off in terms of how much you're going to be paying in the interest if you're starting to carry credit card debt from it. So I look at that as a little bit of like a next level situation. If you're just learning how to use a credit card right now, don't bother with the rewards game unless it's just easy, peasy cash back. Don't get into the whole travel hacking thing until you feel pretty confident with your personal financial situation. I found that for me. I had to get a healthy respect for cash before I started using the rewards game. Like I went after rewards big time, I messed up my entire financial life, like totally destroyed everything. And then I got a respect for cash. And then once I got that, then I was able to go back and use rewards. I think that's what you mean by next level, I would imagine. Yeah, absolutely. I think as soon as you're starting out, or if you're in a situation where you're afraid of credit cards, which some people might be for various reasons, or it could be that you've made a misstep in the past and you're just not confident yet, don't stress about rewards. Just get like a pretty plain vanilla, no annual fee credit card. There are ones out there that offer like 2% cash back where you don't have to do anything other than pay it off on time and in full and you get the rewards. But yeah, we still have the stuff on Instagram. I get jealous of the people who keep seeming reply first class like every other month to some exotic destination and then stand a five star resort, apparently for like $7.95. I'm jealous of that too. But I'm also not going to potentially risk my financial life and credit help to be like, oh, maybe I can get a free first class error ticket. You end up really paying for it over time and more. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You end the book by talking about financial advisors. What's your take on working with a financial advisor and finding the right one and who should work with one? Well, like saying stop at the beginning of that chapter. I did it in the first week and I do it in the workbook because so often people who ascribe to broke millennial, if you feel like you're a broke millennial, then you might get to a chapter about financial advisors and be like, okay, sure. Stop. Read the chapter. And I say that for a couple of reasons. One, you'd be surprised how diversified the financial advisor industry has become in terms of opportunities to work with somebody to help you on a very specific issue. There are also folks who will just do a one-time plan for a flat fee. It doesn't necessarily have to be a long-term relationship, although those can be very beneficial too. The other thing is it's gone are the days of like, you have to be a millionaire in order to have access to a financial planner. Now, some of the risk though, is it financial advisor, financial planner? These are terms that kind of are getting co-opted by a bunch of different people within the financial industry. So you want to make sure you can really vet somebody and understand how credible they are as a financial advisor or planner. One of my favorite recommendations, certified financial planner, it's a bit of a gold standard. You know what they have done in order to get that designation. Also, understand how someone gets paid. This is true across the board with whomever you are working with, right? Like, how does someone make their money? That is a really critical piece of information because if somebody is just flat fee, you pay them an amount of money, they're giving you advice, end of discussion. That's a pretty clear transaction between the two of you. If somebody makes a commission off of advising products to you, then it gets a little bit potentially hairy because the question starts to become, okay, are they telling me a product because it is legitimately the best product for me? Or are they telling me this product because they get a really nice commission on the back end if they sell this to me? Or if they put this in my investment portfolio? So it is really important. You always ask somebody how they get paid. And if they do work on commission, you need to be really clear on making sure that anything they're recommending that involves a commission is actually in your absolute best interest in an area that can get really sticky here is when we're talking about insurance policies. Well, what I love best about what you said, Aaron, I loved all of it, frankly, but I really like the fact with it's gotten so difficult. So you got to know what you're looking for first. You can't just go, you're a financial advisor, okay, well, I heard those are good or those are bad or whatever. There's such a wide range that you really got to truly know what you want first before you even ask any of those fee questions because you're going to maybe get what you pay for or you're maybe not. Well, the other thing too to consider is if you're just in a situation in your life or maybe you have an inciting incident that requires you to have little help, maybe you received an inheritance, maybe you're having a kid, maybe you're buying a house. There's so many reasons you might want to talk to somebody. You can also go to a lot of different platforms and filter for somebody who has experience in the area that you need help. So if you're somebody who's trying to figure out a debt repayment plan while building wealth and you've got student loans that you want to pay off, or filter for somebody who has experience with student loans, you don't want to work with somebody who's like, eh, you know, I graduated college 40 years ago and I paid for all my kids to go to school in cash and I don't really know what the student loan landscape looks like. And it's also easier now because, you know, it used to be you had to look at the phone book or or whatever, look for people in your area. And I think that COVID taught us, well, COVID taught us a couple things. Number one, COVID taught us that we can get a financial advisor anywhere now, frankly. And that number two is, and I want to circle back to something you say earlier on, you also say, COVID taught us about emergency funds. And I think I'm going to want to end on that. What did COVID teach you about emergency funds that kind of changed the game for you? You know, I often get asked where I would change in the prior books, because once the book's published and out there, it's pretty hard to change anything that's in it. And there's one thing that I have in book number one, both millennial, then man, if I could get in there and update that. And even pre COVID, I had changed my mind on emergency funds because I adhered to what a lot of people say, which is you need at least $1,000 in an emergency savings fund if you're paying off debt. I now think that is actively bad advice. It's a great goal. It's a great starting goal. But I know for me that if something went wrong, $1,000 doesn't even pay my rent, isn't going to be enough to keep a roof over my head, isn't going to pay for all my basic needs. So my pivot really became, even if you were paying off debt, my recommendation is you have at least one month of very central living expenses. So not how much you need to be living your best life, but how much you need to keep your shelter, keep your transportation, put food on the table, pay your basic utilities, your minimums on your debts, because you don't want to destroy our credit during this time. And then also insurance, anything else, it's a basic necessity for you. Figure out that number, and one month of that is your new bare minimum for your emergency fund. It's going to look really different for different people. The other thing I love, and this is one thing that COVID really taught me certainly, is thinking about our emergency fund beyond just the number that we need in a bank account, but looking at our social safety net. Who do we have that we can turn to in a time of need? Do you have a friend that could quickly get you job interviews? Do you have a family member that you could stay with temporarily? Do you have a cousin who could loan you a car if something happened and you needed to be able to get somewhere and your car is recently broken down and you can't afford to fix it? Is there somebody in your life that can provide childcare? So also, ideating around the social safety net version of an emergency fund, I think can also really help bring a level of peace of mind. And then you also have an action plan if and when inevitably when something goes wrong at some point. Because something will go wrong, right? It's so refreshing to hear relationships as assets on your balance sheet. And they truly are like all the things that relationships have done for me over my career have been such big, big things. And I feel like, you know, people talk about relationships as building your quote soft skills, but I don't know much that's much more important than than great relationships. So important and knowing what you can provide to somebody else in that time of need, especially if you're somebody who maybe feels that it's difficult to ask for help when you're in a spot of need, just keeping in mind too that at some point you're going to be able to provide some level of a resource, some level of help for someone else as well. It is the broke millennial workbook published on the sixth anniversary. I can't believe it of the original book broke millennial. It's a way to work through all of your financial stuff. I like taking this like, I don't know how you intended it to go, Aaron, but when I looked over it, I thought if you took one of these chapters, I don't know, like every week and work through it just a little bit at a time like you're going to uncover better goal setting, you're going to get your credit and order, you'll get better investment decisions, put better people in your corner. How did you intend for people to use the workbook? So the only strict advice I have is chapters one to three really should be done in order just because they're really the foundational pieces. We're talking a little bit about the psychology of money, we're establishing a common language for certain things we're going to talk about in the future. But beyond one to three, jump around at your interest. Everybody approaches things differently. I'm more of the like, I want to get the stuff I'm not interested in done first so I can do the fun stuff later. But if that's not motivating for you, do the fun stuff first. Look to the chapters that are actually interesting to you. Just don't skip the things that feel hard because that's where the growth is actually going to come from. And it's available everywhere, correct? Everywhere books are sold. Yeah. Aaron, thanks so much for hanging out with us and helping our stackers get better and not be broke. I so appreciate it. It's always wonderful to be back with you and this was a ton of fun. Hi, I'm David Stein. When I'm not talking to other people about money on money for the rest of us, I'm stacking Benjamin's. Big thanks to Aaron for hanging out with us on Instagram. If you follow us on Instagram, you'll see that we're there every week that I'm actually in the basement. And we've got a great one coming up next week, by the way. I'll be talking to Martinez Evans, who decided to begin running when he weighed over 300 pounds and talk about just big goals. A lot of people didn't even say he couldn't do it. They called him a lot of not so nice names. And so we're going to talk to Martinez next Thursday, 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific. Hope you can join us over on Instagram. But back to this, OG, how many interviews over the past 12 years have we done where goal setting factors into the equation, like setting the right goals, which I think partially also means saying no to what the wrong goals are like being clear about what you want is so much the game with personal finance. And yet over and over, that's what people want to step over. I don't want to get clear about my goals. I think there's a misconception around that, that it's going to be complicated and take a long time. And what if I'm wrong? And what if I decide later that I want to change it and all that sort of stuff in the reality is, what if I want to change my mind later? So I do nothing. Yeah, don't do anything. And of course, the interesting thing is, is that it's actually an easier process. You move more efficiently. You're more likely to be on the right track for, even if you do want to make changes by having set up some goals and some milestones in front of you. And overall, it's just a more efficient and enjoyable practice. I think from a planning standpoint, there's two sides of it. One side is, how do I save enough money so that I don't run out of money ever again? There's that overarching financial independence. I want to be good enough that I don't ever run out of money. But the other side of that is also the case, which is, how do I know that I'm saving enough or putting enough in the right places so that I can spend stuff today? How do I get to enjoy life today without the stress of like, Oh my gosh, I need to be saving? Well, the only way you can do that is if you're on a plan and you are knowing where you're supposed to be on that plan, otherwise you're just kind of striving for infinity, which is impossible to know whether or not you're on track for that. So I think it's a much more enjoyable process and you have a better experience overall. Seven habits are highly affected people begin with the end of mine. And there's only seven of them. That's one of the big seven. And if you don't know where you're going, what's that? Any investment will help you. Right. That's right. Yeah. And then if you don't care where you go, then it doesn't matter what you know, that's a great answer to. Do you think Bitcoin's good? Yeah. Well, what are you trying to do? Like, you know, should I invest in small cap stocks? What are you trying to do? That's my favorite thing about goal-based investing is that it makes it okay to say that's a great investment is just not for me. Yeah. Like too many people I think are on the train. If I got to get into the great investment, fine. It can still be good and not meet your goal. And what a great answer when you're like, yep, that looks great, but doesn't meet my endgame. So I'm gonna pass. That's wielding some good power. Hey, let's throw out the even lifeline and tackle some of the most important questions. Our friends at Haven Life OG, they put what you value first. Summer vacation. Oh, Doug's acting like he had an answer to that one too. Like, why did you call on me? I did. And you spent all last week, all last week, you asked OG what he valued most. The summer vacation. Is that patiently? Fine. No, take OG's answer. No, Doug, what's yours? I'm very curious now. Well, here's what it was going to be, Joe, which was friends like you guys. Not anymore. That's some velve to cheese right there. And it's just. It was as seriously was. So I had an epic trip last week that was. I mean, if there were horses involved, it would have been right out of like, you know, the night's tales or something. It was an I was helping a friend with a pretty big moment in his life and it involved moving a whole bunch of stuff from Little Rock, Arkansas to Michigan to Connecticut. And he's one of my oldest friends and we don't spend as much time. He's in his 90s? Yeah. And we don't spend as much time together as we should. And despite it being a pretty stressful event, just that time together in the car drive by the way, driving from Little Rock to Kalamazoo, I realized the south is invading the north. I have never seen that many trucks on the road in my life as when we were. I mean, it was bizarre. But anyway, it was a meaningful trip and I just it was one of those things that made me realize how important great friendships are in your life and you guys too. But that's what I value right now is the relationships that I've spent years not screwing up. That was nice. Wasn't that OG? Wasn't that that was nice? I think that was nice. It's actually it says your loved ones in your time. So Doug, I think you nailed it on my script here. It's why they may buy in quality term life insurance actually simple. So you can gallivant across the country with it, you haul or whatever you were doing and not spend time filling out across the country. Good point, OG. Yes. Get the verbiage right. Go to stackabedgments.com slash haven life now to get a free quote. Love what they're doing there because it's simple. It's online. Doug could have been on the road holding hands with his body and with the other hand, he could have been going to stackabedgments.com slash haven life and then filled out the application on his phone. It's easy. No waiting several weeks for a decision. Prices are affordable. And of course, it's a company that's been there. Policy's offered by the parent company Mass Mutual, more than 160 years old. Thanks. Today we're going to throw out the thanks for ruining it. Yes. I didn't ruin a thing. I was adding to it. You nailed the haven life part of it. I just thought, you know, just your secret lovers moment was pretty cool. Today, we're going to throw out the lifeline. Who are you going to throw it out to? We're going to throw it out to Will. And actually, I've got a note here from our producer, Karen, who was like boo to Will. What's what's it? We don't boo our stackers, Karen. Wow. Yeah. What's going on? It's pretty friendly. So it must take a lot. I know that he's hating on the Red Sox. This is my prediction. He's going to hate on the Red Sox. Let's see. Who knows? Hey, guys, this is Will from the Bronx. Hope you're having a great day. Before anything I want to mention that I got to meet Joe and Paula last year at the stack event in New York City. It was great to knock back a couple of beers with you. And I love that you guys are as down to Earth as you come across on the podcast. Anyway, my girlfriend and I recently welcomed our first born into the world and it got me thinking about estate planning. I want to make sure my little one is taken care of if something happens to their big Papa. Would getting married or having a simple Will be sufficient? Or do I need to create a trust for my family? Or maybe something a little more complicated? I don't know. Our situation is that I own the home we live in as well as the cash flowing rental property. Beyond that, I have 750,000 in retirement, which is 90% pre-tax since I live in New York and 165,000 in taxable investments. Lastly, because I have that 165,000 in taxable investments, do I need life insurance outside of what my employer provides? Or can I say that I'm self-insured for the sake of the baby? Thank you. And that's it for me. Let's go Yankees. So you're there. There it was. I was like, what's not to like about Will? Will sounds awesome. And by the way, Will, I remember us hanging out. Thank you so much for coming. Guys, that was the weirdest event, our New York City event. We were in this because we had so much trouble finding a partner in New York that Emily Guy Burke and my co-author and I, we found this place and it was this strange ass basement. It felt very comfortable, but it was because you live in a basement. So it's going to feel like home to you. But it was so tiny and so weird and so not like the other place. But we had a great, a great time hanging out with our stacker. So Will, thanks for coming to that and good to hear your voice. But let's talk a state planning. This is a great, great question, OG. And I love that Will's taking care of business. Yeah. Yeah. So he's talking about a couple of things, the difference between a will and a trust and you know, and you wonder rather, and the answer is probably both. And here's kind of the difference between those. A will is nothing more than your instructions as to what you want to have happen with your stuff. A trust is an ongoing living entity that continues beyond you that you can indicate how you want to have things happen. So you could say in my will, I want my houses to go to my kid, right? But can an infant own property? Well, of course not. So there's got to be an intermediary of like how to what's the function for that ownership? The other thing to think about too, as you mentioned, your girlfriend, you didn't mention her at all when you're talking about your kid, which could be a on purpose or could be a slight oversight. Either way is fine. But make sure that you understand what that means, right? If you're not married, then all of your stuff is going to go to your next of kin. If you don't have any, any estate planning done, right? So if you're not married and you have kids, all of your stuff goes to your kids. The problem is, is that the court system, if you don't have a growth estate plan, and the court system is going to be involved in those decisions. And because you're not married, your girlfriend will have nothing, no ability to kind of help with that situation, nor will really anyone for that matter, because you have to designate that person in advance. That's what we would call trustee. So the person who's in charge of the money while you're waiting for your kid to get a little bit older. And maybe you want it to be your girlfriend, or maybe you want to get married, or maybe you want it to be your mom or something. That's fine. But the idea of a trust versus a will is to allow you to still have the people in charge of the stuff that you want to have them be in charge of, without having undue issues relative to court requirements, and the legal ramifications of a child, somebody under the age of 18, trying to own property, which is just a non-thing. Relative to the question around insurance, my answer would be, probably you're not even in the ballpark of being insured enough. Most people underestimate the amount of coverage that they need simply by the fact of looking at the aggregate dollar amount. So you rattle off some numbers and kind of add it up to like a million bucks or something like that. So you're going, hey, it's a million dollars. It's a ton of money. You know, I didn't have a million dollars, and I did fine. But you have to take out all the things that you're going to write checks for. So something bad happens to you. What do you want to have happen? Do you want to make sure that all the bills are paid? Do you want to make sure that there's food clothing and shelter for your kid for a period of time? Do you want to make sure that college is paid for? You start thinking about those checks that you write immediately. And now look at what's left. Just to back of the envelope calculation, do that 4% calculation and say, how much can I spend from that? That becomes a much smaller number than the million dollar sum sounds like. You know, if you want to set aside enough money to pay for a kid's college today, you might be setting aside, I don't know, 75 or $100,000 in one lump sum, right? So you set that aside, you've got 800 grand leftover. That's taxable, by the way, to your kid in the next 10 years, because you can't distribute it longer than that. And so you got $800,000. That's 4%. There's only 30 grand a year. That's, I mean, that's not zero, but that's not a lot to to feed clothes, shelter, you know, like all the stuff that's associated with a kid for the next 20 odd years. So I think it'd be helpful to kind of sit down and kind of map that out from a planning standpoint and go, what do I want to have happen? And then what are the gaps that I have? And how do I solve this? This goes back to what we talked about with Aaron OG, begin with the end of mine. You know, it goes goes right back to that. If you start off with what the goal is, maybe will has enough. Maybe he does. It's very difficult for us to answer that question until we know what the goal is. And to your point, he could be grossly underinsured. We don't know. Yeah. Think about what you want to have happen and then do the math on the back end. Don't try to do the math first and see what happens with the math, if that makes sense. We use a lot of rules of thumb around insurance, which drives me crazy versus goal-based insurance planning. You know, start off with the, with the amount that you need in, in many cases, if you look at not just life insurance, but all the different types of insurance out there, like a lot of people buy accidental death and dismemberment, and they have a desk job. And there's no reason for accidental death and dismemberment. And unless you're, you know, working someplace where you might lose an eye, an arm, a limb, a finger, whatever it might be. So you can eliminate that if you start off with the goal, rather than go, well, it's cheap. And the rule of thumb is I need to have different types of disability coverage. So I'm going to go ahead and add it. Yeah, you can eliminate the wrong stuff. Let's talk about which insurance to buy. Oh, gee, because he asks if, you know, having it through work or having a policy outside of work as well, I always preferred having a portable policy because of the fact that that if you lose your job, that policy through work may go away. Now, it's some companies they might be portable. But what do you think about that question? Well, again, this largely determined is determined by what you're looking for and what your health status is, frankly, if you're needing to add a couple hundred thousand or, you know, some relatively low sum in the insurance world, it's easy to get it through your work. The downside is you got to wait until open enrollment time. So you've got to wait until, you know, January of next year to get that coverage. If that's when you're open enrollment is, like you mentioned, the problem is, is that if you lose your job or get laid off or change jobs, you're going to have some break in coverage. You're going to have some gap there that you may not want to have. We've also seen the situation where you might have some medical issues that might prevent you from having coverage on your own or make the cost very high, in which case the group plan will be much more cost effective because you're lumping yourself together with everybody else in terms of the rate. You benefit everybody else is not going to benefit by you being in that plan. But, you know, hey, we're talking about you this time. And then the other thing you might have an issue with is just the dollar amount, frankly, you know, if we're using that rule of thumb of four percent, which I know you hate and I hate to, and you say, well, if I'm trying to, I'm trying to live on 100 grand a year, well, that's two and a half million dollars. Your work plan may not allow you to buy two and a half million. The most you might be able to get is 500,000, in which case, it might make sense to take all you can get through work and then have to supplement it with an individual policy on top of it. I'm with you. I would rather have the flexibility and the portability. And I'm also of reasonably decent health. So I think I'm going to get a better rate using my own health than combining myself with everybody else. Thanks, Will, for that question. If you've got a question like, Will has head to stackabedgments.com slash voicemail. And we'll go tigers, right? Go tigers. Tigers actually playing well lately, really, for a bunch of middle school people on a team, like they are crushing it. Yeah, they're overachieving. Rangers as well. Rangers are doing great, too. I was going to take Nick last weekend to see a ranger game because Cheryl was out of town. Mother's day weekend. Of course, she's out of town. And so how do you celebrate? You take a good do a ranger game because they're playing the Cubs. And then I went to buy tickets. Nick and I get to the computer. I'm like, this new stadium they have is awesome. Go to the computer, sit down. Turns out Joe doesn't know how to operate the Texas Ranger schedule. I was looking at last month and they weren't in town. So instead, we went to Little Rock and we got four throw seats for the Arkansas Travelers, the double A baseball team sitting in the fourth row, fourth row, 15 bucks. And Tim, right behind home plate. Fantastic. You could have come down here for the Rough Riders. The restraining order. Oh, gee. Is that at that gentleman's club right near the airport? Rough riders. Oh, gee. Oh boy. No, no. They are our triple A team in Frisco. It's at Dr. Pepper Park. Dr. Packett Park is cool. Look, and have you been in it? Yeah. Oh, yeah. We go over here a couple times. It's awesome. Cool. Cool. I can leave this. It's a cheap date. It's a cheap date. And usually it's pretty full too. I mean, it's a solid 70, 80% full and they got a little pool thing out back. We've never done the pool, but you can go go lounge in the pool if you want. You mean the Petri dish? No, no, it's cleaned. Sit out in the right field with a beer, you know, and you're a little floaty. Yeah. We have Daryl Strawberry, the former pro, give a talk before the game. So just got there early. Listen to Daryl Strawberry talking, watch the baseball game. That sounds awesome. And Will's like, okay, back to me. Thanks for the call, Will. Stacking Benjamin's dot com slash voicemail. If you've got a question for OG and for being brave, we aren't going to send him any Yankee or Tigers. We should send him some Tiger swag, but we're going to send him the best team swag, which is stacking Benjamin's team. We should do like a team Jersey. We see Bragg could do us like a baseball jersey kind of thing. Hey, in lieu of that, there's kind of is one there right now. Oh, there is. How about we all wear the Doug 2024 t shirt? The campaign. I was kind of waiting until the debates kick off, you know, to really get there. Because we got to get you on that debate stage. Can you imagine me in those debates? Oh, I can't wait. Just the voice of reason. You'd totally be the voice of reason. Well, hey, let's give you a reason to do stuff with us the rest of the week. How about that? Huh? Let's take a look at the community calendar before we say goodbye. Tomorrow night, I will be with Martinez Evans, who was over 300 pounds when he decided I'm going to run a marathon and man to see have an inspirational story. We're going to share it here on the podcast on Memorial Day. However, if you want to hang out with us live, ask him questions after we're going to do the interview live and then he will stick around and answer your questions about running about goal setting about his story head to Instagram and follow us. And that's at eight p.m. Eastern, five p.m. Pacific tomorrow night. That's Thursday night. If you're listening to this, maybe a day after it came out, it's Thursday the 18th of May. But if you're not here to talk marathoning, you're not here to hang out with us on Instagram, you're concerned about the market and the chatter around possible recessions and with the Fed raising interest rates, what's good, you know, what dominoes are going to fall there. O'G and his team put together a free guide that shares eight moves to make in a down market. The guide will help you plan more and panic less no matter what the market does. So head over to steckebenchmans.com slash guide and get this helpful free guide from OG steckebenchmans.com slash guide coming up on Friday. By the way, Doc G and the SEMA McElroy joining OG on the round table. We're talking about passive income. A lot of a lot of passive income that ain't so passive. It turns out all of it. Some passive income opportunities, not that much of an opportunity either. So we're going to dive into what's the good, bad, and ugly on passive income on Friday. All right, Doug, man, lots to take away today from this one. But what do you see? Are you top three? Joe, I figured it all out. I took lots of notes. And here they are. First, take some advice from Aaron Lowry and me. Don't fall for advice about credit or anything else that sounds good, but it's completely false. Like leaving a balance on your credit cards. Trust, but verify any advice you receive. Second, buy now and pay later. Yeah, maybe we should turn that around. How about buy later and only if it really sparks joy and then pay for it in full when you buy hashtag novel concept. But the big lesson. Man, looking at this credit score, this report says the reason it's so low is that I missed a balloon payment, but I swear I sent them like a dozen balloons way before they asked. I got to go negotiate. Thanks to Aaron Lowry for joining us today. You can find out more about Brooke Millennial workbook, wherever books are sold. We'll also include links in our show notes at stackingbenjamins.com. This show is the property of SB Podcasts LLC, copyright 2023, and is created by Joe Salcihaj. Our producer is Karen Reibine. This show was written by Lacey Langford, who's also the host of the Military Money Show, with help from me, Joe, and Doc G from the Earn and Invest Podcast. Kevin Bailey helps us take a deeper dive into all the topics covered on each episode in our newsletter called the 201. You'll find the 411 on All Things Money at the 201. Just visit stackingbenjamins.com slash 201. Tina Eichenberg makes the video version of this show. Once we bottle up all this goodness, we ship it to our engineer, the amazing Steve Stewart. Steve helps the rest of our team sound nearly as good as I do right now. Want to chat with friends about the show later? Mom's friend Gertrude and Kate Yunken are our social media coordinators, and Gertrude is the room mother in our Facebook group called the Basement. So, say hello when you see us posting online. To join all the Basement Fund with other stackers, type stackingbenjamins.com slash basement. Not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's Mom's neighbor, Doug, and we'll see you next time back here at the stacking Benjamin show. you you you you you you you you you you you I want to share another story from my trip. This is a this is a cautionary tale for everybody. We start off in this town called Burritte, which it turns out is the surfing capital of France. Did you know France had a surfing capital guys? Yeah, I thought it was barrettes, but apparently it's a different town. It's it's a very it's a very it's a very it's a probably two different places for it's barrettes. Yes, it looks like barrettes, but my daughter changed my mind by pronouncing it several times, but we're staying at this really nice hotel. You know, kind of jet lagged, weird sleep, the first on them there wake up the next morning. Cheryl's looking at the emails on the iPad. And there's a note from the rental car company says, how are you enjoying your rental car. That we are not paying the rent on the car. That we are not picking up until that day. At noon, and it's eight a.m. How are you enjoying your rental car? Did you like it? Like what? And I go look at my reservation guys and I had messed it up and I was supposed to pick up my rental car the day before. And we're taking my daughter, her boyfriend, my son, Cheryl and I on a road trip all over Spain. And so I call the rental car company and the guy luckily he spoke some English and said, there's a two hour window and after the two hours contractually, I can give away your car and I did. There is no car. Womp, womp. We are leaving out this epic road trip across Spain. We have no rail car. So is the cautionary tale learn how to work a calendar? Because we also heard about an issue with the baseball game earlier. So I'm seeing a trend here. Over two. So basically if you want to do the cautionary tale is don't travel anywhere with you. It's probably the best jail there. It just hits Holy cow. Now the bet. I had like a sprinter van style thing. And if you've been in any of these old European cities, I knew I was going to park these things outside of town. And get an Uber to go into town because the van was going to be too big. But we were in a plenty of room. But luckily, the guy told me about another place out at their airport that he thought would have the same type of van I was looking for. I get online. Sure enough, they have it. So I reserve it. I'm good to go. I go out with my daughter to the airport because she speaks French and I, you know, I know how to say Jevo Dre on point at the chicken or point at the beer, the wine or whatever it is. And there it is. That's, that's my French. Jevo Dre on automobile. Like point at the car. I get out there and it turns out that it was a bait and switch. They did not have a car for seven. I walk in the guy goes, do you really need a car for seven? I said, well, no, there's only five of us, but we need some extra room because we have luggage. We're using this for two weeks. But the guy looks relieved. And he's like, Oh, well, but I have some bad news. Your car has not been returned yet. We only have one. And so we've called the person twice and the car's not here. Now, what am I going to do? No place else in town has a car. And I messed this stuff up. Some like fine. Well, wait, luckily 20 minutes later, we're just sitting outside 20 minutes in the beautiful air and this family comes and they have the car, but the car seats. I would say in America, this car seats three. It's, it's a Renault and it is not huge. We've got five people and bags. So, uh, we made huge people. Like, you know, it's not like you need the extra room because you've had a few too many croissants. No, but we had all these bags. We had to go to my daughter's apartment with this thing. There's like a thing in the back. A lot of these, you know, that you open up the back door and there's this trunk, this protector. It isn't truly a trunk. It's just a back door and there's this little protector on top of the little grocery area. We had to remove that and we had to pack bags all the way to the ceiling and we had bags that are feet on the floor. There was no way to just simply get two rental cars. We maybe, we maybe could have. However, we, uh, we had one. Sounds like a much better idea. Oh, oh, it totally was actually OG because when we got to Seville, the little narrow place we needed to go down to park the car. I had to put the mirrors in on this little tiny hatchback car. I had to put the mirrors in to actually get between the buildings to go to this subterranean garage and park. And by the way, trying to get out. I had to continually back up, back up, turn, back up, turn, back up, turn because it was so narrow. And I was having a hell of a time just getting the car out, but then to get up the ramp. You are selling this trip. Oh, dude, to get up the ramp. Listen to this. To get up the ramp, I had to floor it because the first time I started going up the ramp, the wheels were slipping. And it could, so I'm aimed. I'm, there's this curved, curved drive up to the top to the first floor of the garage. The wheels were slipping. I got to go full blast with a rental car toward the wall and jack it to the left and hope I held up my wheels. Stop slipping. So I'm able to make it out of the garage. Obviously, we made it because I'm here, but, um, but yeah. Can you plan your trip itinerary based on Cadillac models from the 80s? You went to barrettes and you went to Seville. Where else did you go? Oh, I, I should have, I forgot that that was, that's why you call it barrettes because of the car. I totally forgot there was a car. Yeah, Santa Bastion. Was there a Dodge, Santa Bastion? How about El Dorado? Did you go there? We went to Granada. That's a Ford. Yes. Uh, we went to Valencia. There's no Valencia. Anyway, yeah. Learn to work a calendar. That's the cautionary tale. But take advice from us. I can't work a calendar, but I'm great with money. Dissecting politics with exclusive interviews, commentary and humor. Useful idiots with Katie Halper and Aaron Mate. I really don't like sharks and I think we live in a very shark again, this sick world. Well, one thing to keep in mind is sharks are not out there trying to eat surfers and swimmers. They'd much rather eat fish, but in many cases they mistake us for their actual prey. When they do bite, they usually move on. That's supposed to make us feel better. Useful idiots. Wherever you listen. ♪♪♪♪