The Weeds, Live – Anti-trans legislation, explained

Hello and welcome to another episode of The Weeds. I'm John Kuellen Hill. This past weekend, I had my very first live-taping of the weeds at the Crosscut Ideas Festival in Seattle. And because all of y'all couldn't come with us, we're bringing Seattle to you. I spoke with Danya Skeany, their co-executive director of national programs at the Gender Justice League. We talked about the recent increase in anti-LGBTQ legislation all over the country and the history of gender affirming care. Plus, we took some questions from the audience. Enjoy the show. Hello everyone and welcome to The Weeds Live from the Crosscut Ideas Festival. Alright, I think you guys can do a little better than that. Let's make some noise in here. Yeah! That's the energy that I love. My name is John Kuellen Hill and I host the weeds, Vox's Policy and Politics Podcast. And this is my first ever live show in the host seat. So thank you all so much for coming and doing this with us today. One of the things that I love about policy is that, yes, we go down these rabbit holes and we get wonky and we get nerdy. But at the end of the day, policy really is personal. It's the reason that our schools are funded and it's the reason that our roads are paved. And as we'll get to later, it determines the kinds of healthcare we can access. Today, we're going to talk about the recent wave of anti-trans legislation we've seen in states all across the country. At the time of this recording, the ACLU is tracking 474 bills and the majority of them target transgender rights. Everything from sports teams and bathrooms to restricting access to gender affirming care for youth. While a lot of these proposals are very unlikely to become law, they serve as a cultural lightning rod. And they energize the base of the politicians who introduce them. But they also stand to do real harm to a marginalized community. My guest today is Dania Skeany. Dania is the founder of the Gender Justice League Seattle and used to be policy director of Basic Rights Oregon and has done extensive policy work with state legislatures across the country. Welcome to the weeds, Dania. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. So before we really dive into the policy and the bills, I want to get into the personal stakes. Do you mind sharing your personal story with us? Yeah, so I grew up in Southern Maine in a pretty rural community. And I knew from a very young age that I identified as a woman and that I was trans. And I had a really supportive family. My family believed in unconditional love and acceptance. And even though they might not have understood the ins and outs of what I meant to be trans, I always felt supported in speaking my truth and getting access to care. And as I started to go through puberty, I started to experience changes in my body that were really distressing to me and started to need more access to care, to find interventions to prevent my body from doing things I didn't want it to. And so we started going to see providers in Portland, Maine, which is kind of the biggest city in Maine, and then eventually Boston Children's Hospital. And yeah, about like 15, 16, I started taking puberty blocking medication and then eventually estrogen and transitioned through high school. So it was a slow process. It took many years, really like years of therapy and almost half a decade before really like getting to adult levels of gender-forming care. So earlier I spoke about how nearly 500 bills have been introduced in legislatures across the country. And that just feels really extreme. The question I keep asking myself over and over is why this issue and why now? I mean, we are so many years from Obergefell, you know, pose has had how many Emmys, like what is going on right now? Why? Yeah, I think there's a couple different dynamics that are happening. Kind of like you point out, we moved in a shift from marriage equality being a settled matter of legal rights to in the period just before marriage equality, the far right really examining where they could continue to attack LGBT people, where our weaknesses were as a community, and in non-discrimination laws that we were trying to pass to prevent people from being discriminated against in jobs and housing in healthcare and in public life, they found that arguing quote unquote men in women's locker rooms or men in women's bathrooms was something that gained traction. And that was sort of the kernel starting in places like Kalamazoo, Michigan with a local non-discrimination ordinance and then they sort of blew that up. And in 2016, 2017 here in Washington state and in Massachusetts, we had ballot measure attempts to bar trans people from using bathrooms and from being included in our state non-discrimination laws. And that, you know, continued to show traction and it just has continued to amplify to this level of finding new issues to target and attack trans people, to exclude us from public life, to prevent our existence and to really punish us for being increasingly visible and assertive about our right to access healthcare. So 474 bills is a lot of bills and all the legislation varies from state to state, but are there any themes that we're seeing emerge? Are there certain pieces of legislation that we're seeing kind of take place throughout the country? Yeah, I think that there's a number of different approaches that are all seeking to frame or target trans people from being in public life. So there are bans on where we can use the restroom. For instance, forcing me to use a men's restroom. I think that most people in the audience would agree that's pretty absurd on its face, but that's where the only place in public I would be allowed to use the bathroom. In some of these states banning trans youth, some of whom haven't even gone through puberty from participating in sports with people of their same gender identity. So, for instance, forcing me to participate with men or else not participate in sports at all. Those bans have promulgated across states. There are attempts to bar trans people from being talked about in schools, from even acknowledging that trans people exist. Bars against people changing their names or gender pronouns in school. There are lots of laws doing that, and obviously the bans on gender-forming healthcare. I think Texas is also another really clear example. Like attempting to use the child welfare system, I was in foster care, something that is very close to my heart, and that was very difficult for me and my family. But using the child welfare system to attack families who support young people who are transitioning or trying to, experiencing distress and trying to get care, attack them by removing those children from their parents' homes. And in this country, where child removal from Native American communities, from other communities of color has been used as a tool of oppression, it's very disturbing to see that continue to be pushed forward in these states like Texas. So we have these bills and some of them have passed. A lot likely won't, but what's the state of transgender rights in America right now? It's difficult to say. There's increasing social awareness. Like in some ways, these bills bring awareness to the fact that trans people exist, and that can be positive. When I transitioned in the late 90s, early 2000s, there were very few trans people in the public eye. It was almost impossible to have role models or to see what my future could look like or what the possibilities were. And so it is amazing that trans people have more visibility and that feels positive to me, but with that visibility, it's like a spotlight. It can either highlight you or it can make you a target. You know, like you think of a searchlight outside of a prison or something, it's like meant to find you in the dark and make you a target. And I think that it has become something that is terrifying for a lot of trans people. Many of us want to transition and live our lives safely, true to ourselves and free from discrimination. And to be targeted in a way is incredibly scary. And I think young people especially who are at the start of their lives and don't have a long history of memory, it can be, and you know, there are a lot of statistics incredibly distressing. So I think that we have advanced in some ways and being publicly visible and we're such a tiny percent of the population. It's, I think, often framed as like one side versus the other, but we're talking about less than 1% versus 99%. That doesn't feel like a fair fight. Yeah, I think it's so interesting that you talk about that idea of a spotlight. I'm black woman and I know the ways that people talk about representation as this cure all. But it really in this instance seems like a double-edged sword. I mean, how do you think about navigating that? Yeah, I think it can't be. I think for many of us we have to make a choice, right? It's like my whole life and career has been dedicated to serving LGBTQ people and broadly my community. And I think for me it's knowing that my existence might provide hope for like other young people or possibility. And that's why I'm so out invisible, but it is like scary. I have been targeted many times in the past and I know many other trans people. I've survived, you know, hate crimes that have been prosecuted. I've like been physically assaulted on the street and I think there is that sort of double-edged sword of wanting to create possibility and be visible, but also knowing that there are very serious consequences to being in public. So it's very difficult, especially in this moment, and we see how politicians can use our community to stoke fear, to like advance really irrational ideas that are just not reflective of the reality of trans people. And I think many other marginalized communities have experienced the same thing, distortions and, yeah, if you're mongering. So much of this also makes me think of the current state of reproductive rights. I mean, so much was done so that the moment the courts decided something, laws could be put in place. Do you think that the goal of this legislation is to get this before the courts? I mean, how do you see that, will that play out? Do you think it will? It makes a lot of sense that this is happening now because of the Dobs decision. Our legal battles will be based on the same 14th Amendment arguments that were used to uphold access to abortion care. And so that's the strategy. I think the reality is that even if courts strike down, and I believe that almost every one of these bills is unconstitutional, the government can't just pass a law to target a marginalized population specifically and say, well, there are cisgender young people who take puberty blocking medication, for instance, for precocious puberty. That's what these medications were designed for. But transgender young people know you can't have them. Our Constitution prevents the government from doing that, so I think they will be struck down. But the real impact on young people and trans people is to cause despair and hopelessness in our community, to prevent us from transitioning or being a part of public life, and to essentially eliminate us from being present and visible, and to punish us for our mere existence. And so even if these laws are struck down, I think the impact is going to be felt for decades for our community. Okay, so we have looked at the legislative landscape, and up next we'll talk about impact. This episode is sponsored by RAM. If you run a business, finances are always top of mind, and it can be seriously stressful worrying about where your money is going. Well, with the help of RAM, companies can access the tools they need to keep track of every single dollar. RAMP is a corporate card and expense management software designed to help you save time and reign in expenses. RAMP can help you control spending and automate busy work. So when it comes to managing budgets, making bill payments, and accounting integrations, RAMP has helped over 10,000 businesses save a total of over $400 million to date. Plus, RAMP can give your finance teams unprecedented control and insight into company spending. You'll be able to issue cards to every employee with limits and restrictions and automate expense reporting, so you can stop wasting time at the end of every month. You can get $250 when you join RAMP if you go to RAMP.com slash weeds. That's RAMP R A M P dot com slash weeds. All right, we're back. This is the weeds live from the Crosscut Festival in Seattle. I'm John Glenn Hill, and we're in conversation with Danny Askini. Danny, so much of this legislation is centered around gender affirming care. But I think before we move forward, we need to talk about what that means. What does gender affirming care look like? Yeah, I think it's very distinct to each individual, specifically for young people, which is what a lot of this conversation is. It's important to know that for the vast majority of trans people, gender affirming care is really about a social transition. So it's things like changing your name, what you wear, having longer short hair, wearing makeup or not wearing makeup, and it's really up to each person to make a decision. And there are standards of care that were developed by the World Professional Association for Transgender Health that have been developed and grown over the last 40 years. We're on version eight of those standards of care, and that body is made up of like more than 500 physicians, psychiatrists, psychologists from almost 100 countries around the world. So we're talking about care that is very regulated, and that involves, like for instance, if you want to gain access to hormones or surgeries, involves a number of different medical providers, a primary care provider, a therapist, pediatrician possibly for young people, an endocrinologist for hormones for young people or puberty blockers. And when folks get to the point, if they ever decide to pursue surgical interventions, a surgeon, all of those people have to agree. And there's very few other forms of care, medical care. I'm a cancer survivor. I didn't need five doctors to sign off on getting chemotherapy or a surgery that actually caused me to lose my voice for almost a year. I didn't have to get five doctors to sign off on that. For gender affirming care, there's many, many, many medical providers involved in a long process, often years, to get access to care and the wait list for getting surgical care, which I think most people think that this is just care you can go get at your neighborhood medical clinic, it's not. There are very few surgeons, and the wait list can be three to five years. Like I've been waiting for two years to get a gender affirming surgery. I'm 40 now. It's a surgery I've wanted since I was 16, and just the change in health insurance or, you know, having to take time off of work to recover. All of those things are considerations, and this care is actually already without these laws. It's incredibly difficult to obtain even if you have a good job, even if you have good insurance. And I think that people skip over that, and lawmakers certainly do. They make it sound like you just get it at your home or store. Yeah, could you, I guess, dive even deeper into what those wait times are like, what that process is like? Let's just start with insurance. Not everybody has medical insurance. Certainly not every young person does. Most states, it's not required, and so insurance doesn't cover it, so you have to be able to pay out of pocket in many states. And each insurance uses the WPATH standards of care to set the guidelines for if they will pay for surgical care or not. So you have this sort of lengthy process. You have to get a letter from a therapist with a master's degree, your primary care provider, and a PhD psychologist or psychiatrist. Before you can even be approved to get an interview to have a consultation with a surgeon, then you have to wait for the consultation. For me, that's a nine month wait just to talk to the doctor about the possibility of surgery. And then you have to wait for a surgery date, which may be another year or two years or three years. If you've changed insurance in that time, you have to go back to the beginning and start over, right? And your insurance might not cover that particular surgeon, so you might have to go find a different surgeon and start over. I think people forget that our medical system is already incredibly complex. It's already restricted in many other ways, and people often think about gender-forming care as just something that people are really nearly deciding to do. And that's absolutely not true, nothing that I have seen, and certainly not the reality in many of the states that are banning this care. There aren't even surgeons who provide it. You've mentioned WPATH, which is the World Professional Association for Transgender Health, and that they have standards of care for people. What do those guidelines look like? The standard of care for adults is a little different than for young people. So for adults, typically it involves seeing a therapist before gaining access. It can be like one to three months of therapy before gaining access to hormones. Your primary care provider can often provide those, just like they do for menopause. And then being on hormones for about a year before seeking any types of gender-forming surgical care. And then before seeing a gender-affirming surgeon, you have to see a PhD psychologist or a psychiatrist to do an evaluation and then write a letter of referral, evaluating your mental health and capacity to consent to that surgical care. Then you go see a surgeon, again, for consultation and eventually surgery. So it's a pretty detailed process, and the standards are not the same for almost any other form of medical care that people receive. Even things like total joint replacement where there are high rates of regret, people are not required to go talk to a therapist about whether they might regret having a knee replacement or how they would cope with it, but trans people are required to do that. So there are already very strong protections in place. So something that comes up time and time again when it comes to health care for trans youth is the role of parents. And parents disagreeing are people being concerned about parental rights. What would you say to someone who has concerns about their child seeking gender-affirming care before the age of 18? I think that's a very common experience. So the Trevor Project did this really incredible national survey of LGBTQ young people, and what they found is only one in three young people have a supportive household. So it's more common than not that young people are coming out in families that don't support them to begin with. I think for a lot of parents, and what I experienced is there is a youth mental health crisis in this country, about 79% of trans young people report experiencing anxiety on a daily basis, 58% experienced depression, 45% of trans young people have contemplated suicide in the last year from that same survey from Trevor Project. Suicideality is a disease of despair. People get to the place where they see no possibility and that's when they feel suicideality. And so I think for parents, what I experienced was feeling like we were moving towards a goal where I had agency over my life and that my parents might not have agreed with everything that I wanted to do at that moment, but we always had a next step in mind. We always were moving progressing towards some other goal at a pace that they were comfortable with and that I was comfortable with. And I think really opening the possibility that like there is a path forward is the most important thing for parents, even if they're not super enthusiastic about the idea of medical intervention, being okay with starting the conversation and bringing professionals into that conversation and getting that dialogue going so that young people see that they're progressing and that they're able to share who they are and try to start being in the world the way they need to be. So I think that that's the thing that's most important. Sometimes I have conversations with older people in my life who really do want to understand, but struggle just comprehending the idea that there's a difference between biological sex and gender and sexual orientation. And I wonder how do we fill that gap between people who are saying I'm just asking questions in bad faith and people who really don't know and just need more information. Do we fill that gap? Is that there a sense of okay that's not my responsibility? How do you navigate that? I've been 20 years trying to explain the difference between sex, sexual orientation and gender identity in the hopes that it would bring people along in the conversation, but I really haven't seen it be as productive as I want to be. I think the thing that I've come to realize is being a trans person for me, and I only speak for myself and not other trans people when I say this, it's a spiritual experience. And just like when people have a religious faith, they don't have to justify their religious beliefs to other people who don't share that faith. In this country, we accept people's rights to have a belief system, to practice that faith, and to not be judged or discriminated against because of that. I don't need to understand people who are Muslim or Hindu or Jewish, if that's not my faith, in order to respect them and want them to be treated fairly. And so for me, I often try to encourage people to think about trans identity as like it might not be an experience that you can relate to. It's really difficult if you've never had those feelings to understand what it can be. And that's okay. I don't need people to understand all of the ins and outs of what it means to be a trans person, to respect trans people, to make sure that we're safe in our lives, and that we have the right to be ourselves and pursue like happiness and a career, and to be a full person in our society, whether that be in sports or being able to go pee when I'm at my job nine to five, like something everybody has to do, and to be able to be a part of our society. I want to talk about something that I at least consider somewhat of an elephant in the room. The anti-trans legislation has started larger conversations about how trans rights and trans people are covered. And I think for a lot of people who are in the media, especially you know, if you're a little, I'll say old school, there's this knee-jerk reaction to kind of make everything a debate. Like, we're on different sides and we're talking about this. We're truly believing that that is objectivity. And I would love to know kind of how you're thinking about all of that right now. Yeah, I think it's really interesting. Like one of the things I've noticed in a lot of the press coverage, like I was in Sweden and this debate started there, interestingly a little bit before it started here. And I've watched it transition from like Sweden in the UK to the US and watched mainstream media really struggle to do a good job of covering this. And I think the number one thing that I've seen is a lack of voices of trans young people and like reporters and producers and editors not being able to find and elevate the voices of trans young people about their lived experiences, their hopes and dreams, what access to this care means for them. And I think that that's the number one thing that people need to hear, and that's what journalists and the media should be doing, is like go find the stories of those families. And support those families in being able to tell their story safely and maybe not be targeted because it's terrifying to be a young person. West Virginia is an example. They like passed a ban on trans youth and there's only one trans girl who's in a cross-country team in like seventh grade and like literally the ban only, she's the only person in that whole state that's going to be impacted by that ban. And like even her cross-country coach was like, she's not a very good cross-country runner. You know, it's like that funny, right? And it's like cute, but also like reading that story for me is like that is the truth of these bans, right? One person who's not even great across country and like the legislature is spending all this time targeting that one person and that is ridiculous. So I think that type of coverage is really powerful and what I wish journalists would do more of is like who are these folks that are being targeted and what is their experience and their voice. And it's not so much about a debate. It's about like these are real people and they have lives and what are their lives like and why are they being targeted because I think demystifying trans people is what the press and media can be doing. And so that's what I really wish rather than focusing on things like what are the side effects of gender-affirming care. I really wish that they would focus on like what are the benefits of these people's life why are people pursuing this care and what hasn't meant for them. All right, another quick break and we'll be right back. APPLAUSE It's the weeds and I'm John Glenn Hill. We've been talking with Dania Skeany of the Gender Justice League about the wave of anti-trans legislation we've seen proposed in states across the country and now it's time to hear from you, our audience. Here's our first audience question. For those of us who live in more progressive states like Washington, how can we support efforts fighting anti-trans legislation occurring in other states? There are trans organizations in every state in this country and there are a number of different ways to support folks in those states. The Trans Justice Funding Project is a really good example. They have a directory of people that they have funded and that's a community. Trans Justice Funding Project is money raised from our community given to our community. And so finding the organizations in states where these bills have passed and then supporting them with donations or reaching out to them to volunteer is really powerful. I think most people don't understand that trans organizations receive 0.00001% of all political donations in this country. Like incredibly tiny. Like our community is so small and under-resourced that even small donations go a huge way. And I think also reaching out to support community organizations in those states and reach out to legislators even across state lines to let them know that this is not okay and that this isn't supported. Can you talk about the bills that pass to benefit the trans community and the grassroots organizing efforts that resulted in those successful outcomes? Here in Washington state we've had a lot of success in the coastal cities in expanding access to gender-affirming healthcare. So every public and private health insurance company in Washington state has to cover gender-affirming care in a non-discriminatory manner. You know, all the other insurance asterisks apply still. But we have been able to pass protections in many states. And I think those serve as a beacon of hope for young people in states that are passing these bans. That hopefully one day they can move to a state where this care is covered for them. And that's the message I also want to give to young people is that there is hope and possibility. We have made remarkable progress in many places in this country. And just to like break up that sense of despair, I think it's really important to know that we have passed non-discrimination protections. We have passed access to gender-affirming care and insurance. And we have expanded the number of like major medical institutions and universities that have really good surgical programs. And that has been a huge net benefit for our community to even have the possibility of getting care. It seems like much of the strategy in pushing these bills centers on a disinformation campaign about trans persons. Are there ways to counter this? Yeah, I think like elevating people's personal stories is really important. And for people who aren't trans, sharing your own journey story of getting to know trans people or why it's important that these bills don't pass. I think that that is the biggest thing. It's not always trans people. Like there aren't enough of us to change the minds of non-trans people. It takes a lot of non-trans people talking to other non-trans people to change their minds. And I think that that's the key thing is familiarizing people and also sharing people's personal journey stories. I've done a lot of focus groups and message-shasting and research on how to change people's minds about trans people and the most powerful messengers are non-trans people talking about their personal journey of acceptance, how they came to accept trans people, and that modeling that for other people gives people the possibility of like, okay, I guess I can accept trans people and let them live their lives safely. Here's another question from our audience. Not all trans adults support puberty blockers and surgery for minors. Who should have the ultimate authority to make the final decision about this for kids? Yeah, it's really, you know, as in any community, there's not always a consensus about what care is right. I know a lot of trans folks who transitioned as adults and they don't have the experience that I had as a young person, right? I know what my experience was like and that it was life-saving care for me. Like I was incredibly suicidal until I gained access to care. I think ultimately parents, medical providers who are working with young people day in and day out, who know those young people, and those young people are the best people to make a medical decision, not legislators, not onlookers, not trans adults who don't know these young people. I think in this country certainly the people who are most impacted, young people, the doctors working with them, and their parents or guardians are the ones who should be making those decisions, and that's the only people for whom it should matter. Here's another audience question we have. There doesn't seem to be a cohesive response from the left to the painting of trans people as dangerous by a lot of conservative media. How can we change that? Yeah, I think that it has been a very tepid response and there are a lot of reasons why. I think that one of the differences between the historic, why marriage equality gained so much traction, and I think it's hard for people to remember how slow Democrats were to come on board with marriage equality, and they were incredibly slow. I was there for that. Yeah, I remember in 2008 people were not clamoring to, yeah. Yeah, and I think it has to do with the political value of that community to the Democratic Party. And trans people don't bring a political value to the Democratic Party. And so it does not make sense from a purely cynical political perspective for Democrats to come out in full defense of trans people. And I don't like to be a cynic. I like to be optimistic and hopeful. I wouldn't do this work if I wasn't. But I think that that's why we've seen such a tepid response. I think for a lot of people, if they're not directly personally impacted, they don't know a trans person. It's hard to be motivated that this is like your number one issue to care about. And that's really the danger of why this is so incredibly dangerous for us as trans people. And as a nation, we have to move ourselves emotionally in order to be really engaged. And my hope is that more and more people will get to know trans people and that it will become, and there are elected officials. Primmila Jayapal, who is the representative here in Seattle in Congress, has a trans child and has been really public about that in Congress. And that is incredible. Like it brings me to tears occasionally when I hear Primmila Jayapal talking so passionately, both as somebody who has worked with her in the past. And I think that that passion is so powerful and it also brings more people to her side and she can share her experience. And so I think we need more of that. And I think people who are supportive need to support and empower elected officials who can share those stories. So this is a really interesting audience question. Any thoughts about the lack of support for trans people in the US being rooted in a history of misogyny in the US? Yeah, it's a really interesting thing. If you think about one, I think trans men and trans masculine identified people tend to be erased in this discourse. They just are never talked about and people pretend like they don't exist. The focus on trans women is around that we're predators or dangerous or a threat to women that views us always entirely as men. We were men and we will always be men in all this blah, blah, blah. And people are not good at having nuanced conversations about this and I just have accepted that in my career. But I do think obviously misogyny is at the root of a lot of this and the belief in like the right of both men and the government to control both women and trans people's right to their body and to set the guidelines in the way that those guidelines are not set for men and men's access to health care. I've yet to see that bill. I'm waiting for it. Like, where is it? And so yes, I think it is very much rooted in misogyny. And as a trans woman, you know, it's difficult. We're on a podcast. People can't see me. But like from my youngest age, I have experienced sexism. Some of the most egregious examples that even other women in my life are like stunned by the experiences I've had in part because my trans identity means that I'm so disposable to people. So it's not just sexism and misogyny, but it's the worst versions of it because I'm also seen as powerless on top of it. And that's why I'm a huge feminist. We have such a deep relationship with reproductive justice organizations here in Washington state. And all of our bills this year were like pro-choice Washington, Planned Parenthood, Gender Justice League and ACLU of Washington. We work together so deeply because it's so interconnected and all of our bills were about gender-firming care and reproductive health care access because we see those as so deeply interlinked. How can cisgender people be in allyship and right relationships with transgender people in actually equitable ways right now? Yeah, I think like equitable ways is a really fascinating twist to that. Yeah, I think like one of the biggest things is like not speaking for trans people in this moment. There are a lot of allied organizations, big names, and I won't mention them, who unintentionally cis people in those organizations end up speaking for us. To elected officials, including in democratic progressive states like here, it is really painful to have been doing this work for so long and not be invited to table time and time again. And to have cis people who are trying to be helpful, speak for me. As if I don't have a voice or that I haven't been in politics for 25 years or like running campaigns or raising money or working in legislatures. So I think that that's the piece about equity is like giving trans people the opportunity to speak for our community and to create that platform. I think that's a really important aspect. And then also like being equitable about funding and you know like we don't have a reach to raise money in the way that larger organizations do. And I think people on the left forget this that there is not like trans people experiencing employment discrimination means our community is economically disenfranchised. So our organizations are economically disenfranchised. That's who funds us. So people aren't dumping money into trans organizations as trans people who are. So I think the other piece is being just and thoughtful about if you're going to raise funds on trans issues and mainstream large organizations are right now. Are you giving that money to trans people to do the work? Not just are you like hiring trans people to work under a bunch of cis people, which is a very different dynamic. Are you transferring the economic opportunity to trans people to lead their own movement work? Here's one more audience question. What do you think about Montana's recent ruling and banning of representative Zoe Zephyr? I think it's outrageous. It's anti-democratic. I think it's an example of what people should be terrified of. And I ran for office here in Washington state in 2016 to be a state representative. I wish I could say that it would have been different here. But I don't know that it necessarily would have. And I think that people should be deeply concerned about the future of a country in which rather than having discourse and debate people are silenced and literally kicked out of a legislative body. For something that was honestly quite tappin. If it was me and that legislature, it would have gotten real. I mean, people asked what she said was feisty or rude or broke decorum. And I'm like, that is nothing for me on that floor. And so I think it should be very disturbing to everybody that if you want to be in a democracy, and I do, I want to live in a democracy where there is debate. I do not want to see people that I disagree with being literally kicked out of a legislature that they were duly elected to to be there. And so it's very disturbing. And I think it's not, it is both about trans identity, but it's also like we saw in Tennessee, right? That was about race. And, you know, like, I think that we have to be deeply concerned about what that indicates and portends for the future of our country. So here's a really important question from the audience that I'd love to end on. How do you manage your mental health in all of this? What? Mental health? Who is she? What is that? Like, I'll be really honest. Okay, so I work in Washington state. I do not live here anymore. We don't talk about internal displacement in this country. My life was threatened here. I had to flee this state and like ended up in Sweden where I had to see political asylum. It has been a very long journey to get back to this country. It's like, my story is wild. Just Google my name. Like, the drama is there. Like, I don't live in this state because I don't feel safe here. I don't feel safe physically in this state, even though I work in politics here. And I'm not going to get dirty, but it's like I live in a secure location in a completely different state on the other side of the country, away from my friends and family, to do this work. And it's hard. It's hard. I like see a therapist three days a week, have a psychiatrist. I have really supportive family members, but I feel very socially isolated to do this work. And I think it's difficult for people. People act like it's drama or like blowing things out of proportion. The people close to me in my life have seen the toll that this has taken on me and other trans activists and how difficult this work is to have done it decade after decade. My whole life has been dedicated to this. And so I try my best. I feel like every young person that I meet just like fills me with so much love and propels me forward. And yeah, I think that like being in the community and like hearing other people's stories propels me and is my mental health. And I also know that there's like no breaks. Like I don't get a day off because they're young people who need me and other trans activists to do this work. And so I try to stay focused on like those real life impacts. And that is the best thing for my mental health is like hearing and listening to trans young people and being like, okay, like I'm here for them. Because like I had those young, I had adults, trans adults in my life when I was young and they made it happen for me. They moved the mountains like in 1998 to make my life possible. So I'm here for that. All right. Well, we are officially out of time. Danny is skinny. Thank you so much for joining me on the weed site. Thank you. And thank you to the CrossFit Ideas Festival for hosting this live episode of the weeds. Thank you to all of you for joining us here. You can find the weeds wherever you get your podcasts, new episodes drop on Wednesdays. We hope you'll listen and subscribe. Thank you so much for joining us. And thank you for listening. Even if you weren't able to be at the live show in Seattle, we want to know what questions you have about this or any other policy. You can email us your thoughts, questions, and ideas at weeds at vox.com. That's weeds at vox.com. That's all for us today. Thank you to Danny Iskini for joining us. Our producer, Sophie Lalonde, Christian Ayala, engineered this episode. A nuke do so fact checked it. Our editorial director is A.M. Hall. And I'm your host, John Glenn Hill. Special thanks to the folks at the Crosscut Ideas Festival for all their help with this show. The weeds is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. ♪♪♪