Final Fantasy games have three things in common. They all have crystals, they all have a
guy named Sid and they all have fans arguing over whether they're really Final Fantasy.
Welcome to Triple Click where we bring the games to you. Today we are talking about Final
Fantasy 16, the latest entry in the venerable series from Square Enix. Let's get into it.
Let's talk about this game.
I'm Jason Trier. I'm Kurt Hamilton. And I'm Maddie Myers. Hello. Hey. Hello my friends.
It's us again. I was just driving my daughter home from camp about an hour ago. By the way,
87 degrees here. It's brutal. 87 degrees. But I'm taking my daughter home and I see on the
drive home like on my street a car with a bumper sticker that says Elon. And I like
have this reaction. I'm like, oh my god. I have this visceral reaction of disgust deep
inside of me. I'm like, what the fuck? And then I think about it for a second. I'm like,
wait a minute. Elon University. There's other things called Elon. I enjoy that. It's like
a sign of partisan support for Elon Musk. I got my Elon bumper sticker on so everybody knows.
So everybody knows that, yeah, I'm a little piece of shit. So, so everybody knows that
my daughter doesn't talk to me anymore. Used to be. Used to be. Yeah. Hello. Welcome to another
episode of triples like a show that is supported by all of you fine listeners out there.
And we hope that even more of you make the show possible. And there are two ways you can really
help us out here. One is to go tell your friends to listen to triple click, which I'm sure you're
doing every single day, like 10 times a day in this all day. Every day. You actually don't have
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favor, go to maximumfund.org slash join and become a member today. One more quick thing before we
start. We are starting to play Starcraft 2 as discussed for the predictions about this year.
We are going to play a little bit of the multiplayer and we're also going to play probably the first
few missions, maybe the first half of the legacy of the void campaign. So if you want to play
along with us, we are going to be talking about that in two weeks on the July 20th episode of
the show. We'll be getting into some Starcraft 2. So I'm looking forward to that. That'll be fun.
But that's not what we're talking about today. Today we are talking about the brand new Final Fantasy
game Final Fantasy 16. We all played it. It's time for a triple play. Here we go. This is, of course,
the 16th mainline entry in the ongoing Final Fantasy series. That started a very long time ago.
This new game made 16 to 5 exclusive. It is developed by Square Enix. It is an action RPG
and the people behind it, both the kind of key head people, director level people and also a lot of
the ground level people also worked on Final Fantasy 14, the MMO, specifically the original Final
Fantasy 14 around Rigborn and also the expansion Heavens Ward. You can see a lot of the similarities
between those games. Final Fantasy 16, we've all played it. I should say so. We've all played
at least up to the second time skip. We're going to try to avoid story spoilers for the most part
until a little bit later. We'll give you guys a fair warning. We'll say, hey, we're going to spoil
the story up to that point when we say so. But in case something slips out, I just wanted to give
everyone a heads up that we've played up to that point, up to the second time skip. So if you really
don't want to know any of the mechanics or anything that happens up until then, then just hang on
and wait to listen to this episode. All right, I'm going to go around and let's all talk about
where we've played. What are impressions are? Kirk, why don't you start us off? How far are you
and what do you think of Final Fantasy 16? So I've played to the second time skip. You actually
just... What do you do? I don't know. So actually, no, I have a relevant point to that, though,
is that we said we were going to play to the second time skip for this episode. And I played
that far. And then I did keep playing, which I think says something about this game because... Sure
it does, doesn't it? I do have some criticisms of it. I find it narratively kind of not that
compelling or just sort of confusing and a little bit inert at times. But it's also really fun and
so spectacular when it really gets going. When this game gets cranking, when it reaches the
high highs that it reaches, it's really delightful. I mean, I'm just sitting there laughing not
able to believe what I'm looking at while just engaged in these unbelievable, you know, third-phase
boss battles that are just like Pacific Rim style, just monster matches. And they're really,
really fun. And the basic combat is a really good time. And I'm enjoying that about it. So
I am liking playing it even while I don't really even know how to think of it. I mean, it is basically
just a Devil May Cry action game. I know you can go and get side quests. Does that make this an RPG
so far at least to me? And I'm like 15 hours in. I'm like upgrading just because there's a new
weapon I can buy every so often. And it gives me a higher number. But I'm not... There's no third
thing I suppose. And that's kind of what I'm missing from this game is that sense of like some third
thing. It could be like branching narrative or it could be puzzles or it could be... I don't know
something else. And even in a game like Diablo 4, which we were just playing, there is a third thing
in that you... There's like dild crafting and there's a lot of kind of technical stuff to get into.
And I'm not really finding that at least as far as I am, which feels fairly far. So the game does
feel very limited to me. It is just combat and then cutscenes and then combat and then some
side quests we want to do them which just involve combat. But the combat's really fun and I am
enjoying it so far. There are a couple more things that I'll pop up. There's monster hunting.
There's some some of the side quests. Yeah, I mean the side quests are mostly just combat.
But you just go fight stuff. There's no like third mechanical thing. Well, that's yeah, that's
one of the things that I think the other Final Fantasy games have had in spades, which is lots of
mechanics. I suppose if you think of a third mechanic, maybe it's the icon battles or like an
extra mechanic in addition to that one. Guys, what about the active time lore? That's the third
mechanic. This is the lore. Let me read actually. But I know Maddie, I want to hear what you think
and Jason as well. But here is a paragraph from a review. I wrote a review you wrote. You wrote
this? A review that I wrote. Alas, eye popping graphics and a cool battle system don't
automatically provide a great gaming experience. Some third element be it a collection of minigames,
deeper side questing, meaningful choice, more exploration, something else is needed to sustain a
game like this for 60 hours of play. When all is said and done, Final Fantasy 13 feels unbalanced
and strangely unfinished, like he beautifully constructed lusterously polished chair with only two
legs. I like this game more than 13, but I does feel very much like 13 to me. You did go back and
find your review because you remembered you thought. I was like, it's missing a third thing. I was
like, wait, I think I actually said this exact same thing about 13. And I had that thought a lot.
I was like, this reminds me of 13. Not in a bad way. I like the combat more in this than 13s,
but it's got that same feeling of just like a tube that you go down and then there's cutscenes on
the tube. Maddie, what are your thoughts? I agree very strongly with almost everything Kirk said,
but let me see if I can say it in the Maddie Myers way. That's what the people want me to do.
The second time skip as well. I only have part of the play. A little bit more fast that.
I feel like the story's really simple, but the parts of it that I don't understand are almost
entirely related to proper nouns. And for that, there's always active time, Laura folks,
and I sure have been reading it. So there's something to be said for that. I really love the
combat. I think it's incredibly fun. It is exactly my shit in terms of combat design. Like it is
so in my wheelhouse that I'm like, I might beat this game despite really not caring about any of
these people that much. And the more time goes on, the more I'm like, Clive, who are you? And why are
you like this? And why must I hear you talk so much about Joshua and what is or isn't happening to
him? But yeah, the combat's so freaking good. It also reminds me of the combat in Bayonetta 3,
which is a game that similarly the story really started to fall apart, in my opinion. And by the end,
I was like, this has lost me, but it had so much cool fighting mechanics, so many cool fighting
mechanics, and so many cool boss battles. And the part that really reminds me of Bayonetta 3 is
that they included these kind of Kaiju battles between the big acons. And there'll be like really
simplified versions of the combat for just those big Kaiju scenes, and you like move really slow,
and you just get to see these really cinematic things. There's like occasional quick time events,
but I would almost not even call them that because they give you a really long time to hit the
button, and they call it like a cinematic stab or like a cinematic evade. Like they just fully admit
to you that it's purely for the cinema of it all, whatever cinema means in video games,
and that is so fun to just have just pure frosting, like no cake, just frosting, just gooey,
delicious frosting in a Kaiju battle. It's great. So I don't know, I don't know if I'm really
going to beat the game, but I'm loving it. So after the second time skip, at some point seeing
you will access you will gain access to a character named Vivian who just met her.
So I was very confused. She showed me a big map. So I was very confused about the story and the
proper names until I went through all of her. So she has like you can run through the entire
story of the game with her. And she heard doing that and showing it all visually and actually
understanding that like oh yeah, when they say crystalline dominion, they're talking about a
specific city and not like the entire region. Yeah, this version of Switzerland. We're not just
talking about the whole world. You might say is a crystalline dominion. Exactly, which makes it
incredibly confusing. At least for me, it did. That helped me understand what was going on,
was seeing her explaining all the armies moving. And I went to every single one and was like,
oh, okay, that's what happened. I'm going to need to do that because I only I was like playing
right up until we were recording. And I was like just barely looking through those many,
many pages of headshots of every character. And they show them all to you at each age they've
been so far. And I was like, oh, cool, cool, cool. This family tree, how they're all connected to
Clive. This game might be a series of wikis. I don't know that that's a bad thing. Okay, so what I
think is really interesting about this game. And I finished it. As I mentioned last week, I've
finished it a couple of weeks ago. I think there are two things that it really has going for it
really strongly. One is the combat, which we've talked about combat rules. There's also
some we can get into it more specifically. We will, we will. But the other thing that I think
it really just is incredible at doing is cutscenes in general. The production values, the voice
acting, the staging, the cinematography, it's all incredibly well done possibly. So definitely some
of the best I've seen in a video game as far as the actual cutscene work. Now what's going on in
those cutscenes is another story. And a lot of it is kind of recovering if you will. Well, so later on,
and you haven't even you guys haven't even gotten to the bad part yet. That's a really astonishing
is that like, so I think there are parts where it really hits its stride and it really feels cool
and the voice acting and the performances and the the stage work of it all really sells you on it
and gets you emotionally invested. It's just that like, you guys have met Ultima. Ultima, as he,
his like guy, as you need him more and like find out what his deal is, you will at least I,
speaking personally, I got even angry here. And by the end, I was left so unsatisfied by the entire
story because of him. He is like one of the worst villains we've ever seen in a final fantasy
game. And this is a series known for really good villains. So I think that like this is a type of
game where because the cutscenes are presented so well, it's very easy to get lost in them and be
like, wow, this is really cool. Like, look at the way these, these people are moving on the stage,
look at their faces, look at the music and the voice acting and the voice acting Ben star who plays
Clive as fan. Fantastic. Fantastic. Big fan of triple clicks. So maybe maybe we'll get him on
the show sometime. And the direction really the voice direction deserves some some kudos to
because that often plays a big role. But all the performances, I mean, Ralph Iniston is
Sid and like, oh, oh, this is incredible. I think that can kind of mask some of the story
problems. And it certainly did for me while I was playing it for a while because it's just so well
done. Yeah, let me, let me give a little bit of my thoughts, I guess, on the story itself. I'm not
finding it hard to follow actually. I'm finding it very easy to follow, which I appreciate. This is
more than easier to follow than most Final Fantasy games in the first few hours, especially if we're
comparing it to Final Fantasy 13, which I'm still not sure. More 15 for that matter or even 14.
I mean, a lot of them throw you into a very complicated Final Fantasy-ish world. It might just be
the entry point of this being so similar to Game of Thrones. And so then it has that Western fantasy
sort of European kingdoms feeling, which then I sort of innately understand from reading a lot
of Western fantasy, but also it's just possible to follow it, even without the active time lore.
I'm just sort of, I was like, okay, I'm aware of what is happening in this story. I know the stakes,
I know the protagonist, I know what's motivating him for a significant period of time. And our friend
Chris Plant, when he was talking about this on the besties, mentioned something that I really
related to. He talked about a snowball effect that happens with games like this where you miss one
little bit of lore or like one reason that something just happened. And then you're kind of like
the next time someone starts talking about something, you sort of are already a little bit lost,
and then you just start to kind of lose your grasp entirely. And then within a few hours,
it's like stuff is happening and you really are like, wait, I can't remember why any of this is
happening at all. And I really related to that. And I have not felt that with this game, which I
appreciate, that problem for me is that the actual characters are really, really thin and kind
of bland. Like I'm just, I'm not finding a lot of character or anything to really hold onto
in terms of who these people are and what they want. Like I understand that Clive is anguished
over what happened to his brother and that he's he's seeking revenge. And I do think I think Ben
Star is just fantastic. He's anguished scenes where he has to scream out holy cow. He's really good.
But like that's kind of it. That's all I've really got. Like you mentioned, the
Lorath voice actor, what's his name? Who plays Sid? Ralfynas is fantastic. He's a great voice.
And like, you know, lends the character a lot of gravitas, but Sid is actually not that well
defined as a character. And he winds up being like, he has this like really revolutionary plan
that everyone kind of just goes with because he has some theory. Because he's such a sexy bad boy.
What are you not getting about that? You see them? Look at that lineup. Look at that beautiful
five o'clock shadow. He touches it up every day. Yeah, it's really his voice. I think the character
design is fine, but it's really the voice. Most of the character designs actually don't do much
for me in this game. Yeah, I know. But he like has this theory and then everyone's just like, oh,
yeah, why didn't anyone think of this before? Sure, that makes sense. And then they'll just go on
this radical plan. And it just is all very thin. And then there's Jill, who's the other main character,
who is literally not a character like nothingness. I almost feel like she was added to scenes
after the fact. Like she is just sitting there while Clive reacts and makes decisions. And she
has absolutely no personhood. So that the fact that the characters are missing means that it's
cool that I can keep track of what's going on. I like the world. I think it's really interesting
that there are these kingdoms. And each kingdom has sort of one at least person who can control
these icons, which are basically giant weapons of mass destruction. Yeah, like suddenly there's
a huge warrior destroying the battlefield. That's a really cool thing. And they're all really
distinct looking. And you can kind of be like, okay, that kingdom is the one with this guy.
And you kind of know him from past Final Fantasy games. Yeah, there's Shiva and the Phoenix and
Bahamut and, you know, you know, those guys. Yeah. So anyways, I am just missing that the core of
character at the center of it. And as a result, I'm cruising through it because I really, really
like the combat, which maybe we should talk about some, unless you guys have more thoughts about
those sort of general characters. Yeah, I want to share a few more general thoughts. I think
as someone who's finished the game, sadly Jill's entire character arc is just to change Clive.
Like she exists to serve Clive. So you will not be, you'll not be pleased. Does she ever become
more of a person? Like do you ever find out who even she is or like what, like anything about
does she like express a desire or like a character trait? Well, she desires to make Clive a better
person. That doesn't count. Desiring to not show any character traits is not a disadvantage.
The answer is it's very disappointing the way this game treats women and children.
She have been replaced by a very sparkly bobble. And would that have worked just as well?
Well, she could have been like a gem, a gem cast Shiva. So a couple more things that I think
are worth talking about. And then I will, and then we will get into the combat. First of all,
Kirk, to your point about wanting a third thing, I think that's an interesting way of looking at it.
I think that like a third thing wouldn't have been necessary if there were more interesting
decisions to be made outside of the main thing. And so I think the combat, or sorry,
I think the gear system and the crafting and the buying stuff at a store is just so boring
that it shouldn't even be in there. So what I'm saying related to Diablo 4, like that's the
third thing in Diablo 4 is you have all these decisions to make about your character build.
Those aren't in you can make decisions. Yeah. And so typically, I mean like in an RPG and kind
of the typical rhythm of a JRPG, you get to a new town. There's new gear to find. You can upgrade
your gear or in some RPGs. It's like your main store gets a new upgrade every so often between
store missions. But there are decisions to be made there. You can decide either your resources are
limited. So like the gold you're getting is pretty like a squat like you're not getting that much
in the first place. So you have to make a decision. Do I want to upgrade my armor or weapons here?
What do I want to do here? Or you're given interesting decisions. Do I want this armor that does
fire damage? But it does less. Do I want this this weapon that doesn't have any elemental
damage or do I want with this armor that protects me against some status effect? You're making
decisions in this. And you're crafting a party in a lot of these things. You have a party and
you're figuring out who how to put your party together and who to specialize in. Yeah, that's the
other important part of this. Yeah. It's not just one dude. And I think that that is severely
lacking in this game. And it's just like an action game whose developers I guess felt like
that people would be mad at them if they didn't include an item system and a gear system.
It feels like a devil may cry game. Not a bad thing, but very very different from a
playing game. Or a bayonetta. Very very similar to the amount of RPG that's in a bayonetta,
which is yeah, almost none because it's weird. It's weird to not have status effects in a
final fantasy game. And there's like, so the enemy you find at the very beginning of the game,
the morble is like known in Final Fantasy games for this attack bad breath that does all these
status effects that gives you poison and blind and petrifying all this stuff. And in this game,
it doesn't, which is so weird. It's just very strange for a Final Fantasy game. It's striking
given that you unlock elemental attacks. So you have shock and fire and all of these different
attacks, but they don't actually do. Right. And then there's no, there's no elements.
You don't take anything like you don't need water to defeat fire. For example, there's no
Pokemon of it all. Not only that. Yeah, it has no impact, which is weird in a game where you're
basically avatar the last airbender and you keep collecting all these different powers. Yeah,
it's just getting more powerful, which is fun. Yeah, you just get more powerful. You just get
different sparkly attacks. Does it matter if you attack a guy with wind powers versus electric
powers? No, but it looks cool. You're in the volcano and you just do fire damage to everybody and
it doesn't. Yeah, yeah. The one thing in combat, I think strategically that that I do think about
is stagger versus versus health damage. So are we? Let's talk about the combat. Let's get to go. Yeah.
The way it works generally is you kind of you're you're flying around. I think the coolest
thing this game does is the first move it gives you is this warp ability where you hit a button
and you just zoom across the battlefield straight from Final Fantasy 15. Let's give some credit
to 15 for coming up. Yeah, the 15s combat I never jelled with. So it's just a warp straight
forward and you can use it an infinite number of times. So it's a very easy way to get to your
next target and to just keep attacking, which is very fun. And you start out with fire powers
and then those get more and more enhanced and then soon you get wind powers. Then you can switch
between the two. Then you get electrical powers and I'm assuming you get all the other ones after
this. So right, you are really angry. You are learning to master the elements. So I think there
are more than just the four. And yeah, you you you really fly around and just try to chain combos.
And it's the same thing where it's mostly melee attacks. You have some ranged attacks, but those
aren't really the main thing. You can kind of use them to continue a combo. But because you're
warping around at hitting people with your sword, that's really what you're doing. And you're
mainly just using a sword. Like it's not like even God of War where you're switching weapons,
you're more just switching the type of attack that you have. And then the one consideration,
like the strategic consideration in combat, especially with bigger enemies, is their poise or
their stagger gauge, which is, you know, was in 13 was in 14. There's always a stagger gauge
in Final Fantasy. You're trying to lower it to a certain point eventually now, or at least where I
am, my wind power lets me get them halfway. And then I can get a kind of mini stagger off on them
if I like switch to those special ability and the wind power. So I'm kind of always thinking,
like it is a really fun combat system because you're always looking at your enemy, thinking about
where their stagger is at, where their health is at. You're looking at your cooldowns for your
big abilities because once you stagger them, you do way more damage with every attack. So you kind
of want to save a few of your big mega damage attacks for when they're staggered. Then also,
you eventually get a limit break, which is basically just rage mode from God of War. That kind of
thing like you catch on fire and start doing way faster, way more attacks. You can parry, but it's
a little more about the active dodge, where when you dodge, you kind of get a really free,
cool attack on them. And it has a great flow. I really find it to be a super fun action combat
system. Full stop. Not role playing game, just a fun action game, and I do really enjoy that. And I
will say one other thing, and that is I wish the performance mode on this game was a little bit
better. The 60 frames per second mode on PS5. It's pretty solid in combat. It seems like they
really prioritized making it smooth in combat. But outside of combat, it's like really kind of
jittery. Like it's all over the place. It's not stuck at 60. And at 30 frames per second, I don't
like playing this game. This will be different for everybody. But I just find it to be like this
motion blurred mess. I really have a hard time keeping track of what's going on. So I need to play
it at a higher frame rate. And that just makes me think I might like this game better. I guess on
PC, but it's disappointing that PS5 is so powerful and they couldn't just get it to lock at 60 frames
per second. Because this combat really does work at a high frame rate. I mean, it feels like
near Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, all 60 frames per second games. Yeah, there's also that awful
motion blur that like wound up making me feel nauseous every time I played the game for extended
sessions. Yeah, that's more an issue for at 30 for me as that motion blur is really pronounced.
But yeah, it's it's too bad. I was it's bad in performance mode too. At least it was for me
when you're moving the camera around a lot. Yeah, I think combat is really good too. And you
wind up unlocking even more icons as you guys alluded to. You guessed correctly, you do wind up
getting more powers as the game goes on. And that winds up being kind of like, I don't know,
you're kind of carrot for continuing to play because you're not getting any interesting gear.
You're not getting any other interesting RPG mechanics. But there is that feeling of like,
okay, cool. I keep going. I'm going to get the next icon on lack. And there are some really
cool ones. I won't get into specifics because we'll stick up to the point, the stopping point
that we talked about. But even yeah, even at the point you guys are out, there's a lot of cool stuff
you can do that feeling of juggling all the of the abilities. And it feels like once you've gotten
to three total icons, you really have just enough that you're constantly juggling. You're never
really that bored. You're never really just smashing the the attack button. Which by the way,
I switched it to R1 and then dodged to a circle, which I find very. Well, my thumb has just been
really suffering the older I get, like playing Diablo. I kind of messed my thumb up and I'm
increasing it. I just can't do this, like, mashing the square button over and over again. Yeah,
the square. Yeah, square. It's R1 feels so much better. And since playing Souls games,
I just feel that way. And yeah, I really like it. I really like the rhythm that it gives you. I
really like the way it looks and it feels. And I feel like we've already seen some fun YouTube
videos of people like destroying enemies that are way higher level than them by just jumping
on top of them and beating them up, which is a really cool feeling. That part is so fun.
Like, I can't even think if it's ever been in a final fantasy game that there's specific combos
that they recommend. Like, in my mind, that's like a DMC and Bayonetta thing that I always really
enjoy. And this is not a tip that's going to work for you too, because I guess you change your
controls. But my personal favorite combo to do is when you press circle and then square really
quickly. And then whatever other attacks you want to do, like an ability, if you press them,
like right in a row, or I'll just slide my thumb over. You do a jump in. I think it's called
like charge or something like that. And it's just another movement ability. Yeah. And our scheme,
it's R1, you have to hit both triggers. It's a little awkward. Yeah, it's so fun. And when you're
in the air, you can do like a Donkey Kong pound downward. That's really, really good. And like,
just chaining between those and the different abilities is so satisfying. Like, once I discovered
that, I was like, oh, my movement capabilities are huge now, because between that charge move and
then the Phoenix Dodge that already comes with your fire set, you can just constantly be zipping
around way more. And then also chaining between those attacks. I don't know. It feels like a
million bucks. Like, there were at least a few perfects that I got that I was like, I feel so
good about myself right now for defeating this dude. And like, I don't know, I don't, I don't
usually get that feeling to Final Fantasy. And it was really fun. I also really like the blade
charge. If you hold down the attack button, your blade engulfs and flames and you do way more
damage on your next attack. But what's very cool about it. And what's cool about it is that it
holds no matter what else you're doing. And especially playing with R1 as my attack, I'll do a
like four attack combo. And on, I've learned now to on the fourth attack, you just hold down the
button after attacking, then begin dodging and flying around and whatever. And his blade just catches
fire and stays on fire until you release it for the next attack. So you can kind of, it really folds
into the combo system very well. It isn't like you have to do it and then just stand there and
wait and use it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hold it in reserve while you fly around, which is really cool.
And you can heal it anytime too. Like you can just press the the downing a potion button as
Clive is zipping around madly. And that's pretty easy too. Like it just. Well, so that actually,
I think is a downside because if there's a problem in the combat system, it's that this game is
way too easy. I did not fight a lot. Even especially the icon battles because there's no real decision
making in the icon battles, you're just going to follow. They're just splashing. Yeah. And they just
wind up feeling super easy. There are some awesome moments, of course. And man, they're more like
big cinematic moments. They're cinema. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But there is a lot of you do spend a lot
of time actually fighting in those cinematic moments. I guess that's good to know. Like it just goes on
and on and on. Yeah. Well, so there's one man there. You guys are in for a treat if you keep playing
because there's one icon. I think that is the kind of the peak of the game. And it's all really
downhill from there. But there's one icon fight that is just tremendous. And I won't say anything about
it. But you should tell us off the air. So we know where to stop playing the game.
Well, it sounds like Kirk might keep playing the whole thing. I think I will. Well, I mean, I might
are I might play it again on PC to get that kind of higher framerate experience and just play it
again when that comes out because there I did go back to Zelda. And I was like, oh, yeah, right.
This is one of the best games I've ever played. I kind of want to be a problem. The timing is,
you know, that's not really this game's fault. It's still very fun. But we should say I want to say
a little bit more about that outrageous drama cinematic, like the the heights that these battles
reach. I really I wasn't totally expecting it. And it is some bodacious shit. I mean, which one
which one are you talking about? Yeah, let's run him. So the first time I'll say I'll be vague for
a second longer. And then we can get into the specifics. Vaguely, I will just say I was cackling
with the light many, many times playing this game. It kind of has like an act structure where you
usually start. And then you kind of, you know, it kind of builds and builds and builds until there's
a huge ridiculous moment where like, Clive is like, and now I will reach my true power. And you
like, you know, it goes full anime. And it's like another person says that and they have the power
and it's crazy. And it gets even bigger. And then he kills the back guy. But then it's not really
dead. It's even bigger. And then he becomes bigger. And like, by the end of the thing, you're just like,
Oh, he is dragon ball Z. Yes. And it really like the production quality on some of these cutscenes.
They're basically interactive cutscenes is crazy. Like, it looks so awesome on a big TV. It's
just like monster mesh, like huge Pacific rim, just like, and it's like suplexes. And like,
it really is like wrestling. Like, it really is like an old Kaiji fight. And it has a sort of
grandiosity and a goofiness that actually God of war used to have and kind of doesn't anymore. And
it fills that, it scratches that itch for me. But DMC and Bayonetta still do. That is very true.
Yes. That same feeling of like watching gods just cobbling each other on screen.
Well, epic, epic music plays. And it's very cool. You guys can see why my initial reaction to this
was, wow, a lot of reviews are going to miss you. I definitely can see that. So yeah, let's
give a spoiler warning now. Okay, let's do a spoiler warning. So we're going to get into the story
up to the second time skip. So if you haven't gotten there to now and come back later.
Yeah. And I'll remember to do this. I will put in a timestamp for you to skip to for one more
thing. Because this is the last, this will just, it'll be spoilers from here and out till one more
thing. So here's where I'm going to say, I'm going to say, say the timestamp for one more thing
right here. Bing. All right. One more thing takes place at 48 minutes and 46 seconds. And Jason
and Maddie do kind of get right into the spoilers that immediately were pretty quickly. So I'm going
to drag this out for a little while just to really give everybody time to skip forward if they
want to. And the timestamp that they are going to skip forward to is 48 minutes and 46 seconds.
Okay, ready? Back to the show. Bing. So I think, okay, so Maddie, so off the air, you are complaining
a little bit. I think both of you were pointing out that like the game is trying to hints at or
trying to make you trying to obfuscate whether Josh is alive and whether Clive was ifrid and
these other things. I would say that's the first thing it tries to obfuscate is whether Clive is
ifrid. You don't think it's trying to. So I don't think it's trying to. I actually think that it's
the type of story where like you the audience are meant to know both of those things. Both the
Joshua's alive and the Clive is ifrid and you're just watching the characters find out. That was
my read on it. So I didn't really think it was like the way they set up music stings and like when
when Joshua removes his hood and they do like a big zoom in on his face. Well, it's still yeah,
it's still meant to be a reveal. But you know it's him. So well, but I don't think that it's like
supposed to be a huge surprise that a guy who's named the phoenix is like coming back from the
dream. I have that in my notes. I thought that was kind of funny that he's like the phoenix
size and Clive was like, well, I guess he's dead forever. You know what they say about phoenixes
is once they're dead. And everyone is everyone's like it's so crazy how the phoenix is dead.
Again, no one's written X-Men comic in this universe. Yeah, I don't I mean, or I that's not really
I don't know if I was complaining about that. That's not really a thing I feel maybe it was just
many. It was just many. Kirk, what's your complaint? Well, my issue is it's not an issue. It's just
the thing I keep noticing that I think is strange about the storytelling. It's not whether or not
people know one thing or another thing. It's the fact that they don't acknowledge things that
have happened to them. Specifically, Clive keeps not acknowledging the fact that he is absorbing
icon powers from other icons and like that to me is strange. There like it repeats the beat of
Is Joshua alive? Like I killed Joshua. Am I ifrit? What's going on? Like that kind of happens
a couple too many times where it feels like he's still dealing with that and he's not talking
about the fact that he like sucked Benedictus powers out of her and like now has that power while
this like mysterious voice said to him. Ah, yes, you're waking up. There you are. Awakening
your power is like it seems in that it is very clear to me what's going on because these are all
familiar fantasy tropes. But also that stuff did happen to Clive and he is sitting there switching
between fire and wind powers in a way that no one in this world apparently ever has and yet he's
not talking about it. So that to me just there are times. No, neither is anyone else. Like a lot of
other characters are present for some of these interactions like Jill and Sid and none of them are like
hey so it's pretty crazy when that big guy came out of a wormhole and said you were
hated to like have a destiny or whatever. What was up with that and that just doesn't really come
up for these characters. So it just makes it all feel a little bit disconnected. It's not the biggest
deal in the world but it just makes it. It's like moving across some parallel axes narratively
that aren't intersecting with one another and then that kind of makes me question the direction
that we're heading in because it seems like they're resolving one plot arc. Well actually another
plot arc already happened and is in motion but no one is actually dealing with it and it makes
the characters feel more confused I suppose which is kind of underlines the thing I was saying earlier
where I don't really relate to these people. It also seems almost as though I'm not experiencing
the same reality as them at times and given that they're already so thinly written I'm like really
I'm finding something lacking with the characters in general I don't even think we're sharing the
same experience sometimes but the cutscenes are just so beautiful. They really are. I think the
cinematic evades. I think at least for me personally I think there are games where like the
incredible production values can just mask and make it feel like you're on this roller coaster ride
where you're not even thinking about like wait a minute why is this happening really? That works
half the time. Yeah. So for me and part because I was marathoning the game to try to get it done
before it came out but because I was playing under the copy but for me I was not really thinking
about a lot of these holes until later on so yeah it's interesting to hear you that you're
poking holes in the story already. Well I mean I'm marathoning it too and like I would say the
the production values the incredible visuals that works half the time like when the game is
doing those high highs when it's monster fights and see the score is going out of control.
I should say Maseo Shisokin this composer who did a lot of work on FF14 composer for this the
the victory sing that da da da da da da da da da it's like that choir. Yeah it's amazing.
All the the whole battle music is just really great. When the music is really kick in and when
the whole thing is blowing up yeah at those times I'm like this is fine this is all I need. It's
just that when it slows down the cutscenes do look really nice like when they're doing the fully
directed thing with the voice you know the performance capture but at that point I just feel like
I'm watching TV and I've watched TV like fantasy TV where like the characters are are interesting
and I'm much more drawn in and I do I find myself missing that in those moments. I'm in the same
boat and I think the comparisons to Game of Thrones really do this game a disservice like almost
if they hadn't had so much of that in there it would help the game more and by that I mean if
they didn't literally have like Jon Snow's pet wolf in the game as a character who follows you
around and like Jill has the same backstory as the on like we talked about this on last week's
episode like there's literal tropes tropes on tropes which those tropes are really fun but part of
what makes them work in Game of Thrones and I'm really sorry to get on my little Game of Thrones
stand soapbox here because who cares but the game is asking me too so I will do it. In Game of Thrones
part of why those tropes are so fun is that George R. Martin specifically subverts them time and time
again and makes those characters complicated in ways you don't expect and he does it very intentionally
like part of why those deaths on Game of Thrones are so surprising or you know whatever we want to
talk about the the rape scenes the violence the the blood and gore and bodily fluids like part of
while that works in the context of that show is that usually it's characters you don't expect
to hook up or you don't expect to die and it's the hero suddenly falls from grace and you're like
wait what and now this anti hero has to do some shit that's why it works in this game it's actually
not ever subversive in any way at least not yet Jason you can tell us if it is but I'd like it
if it had a little more meat on any bone at any point but it just kind of doesn't you know I think
that it's I think that the stab specifically at like sexual content like at maturity actually
the sex position is so flat and it's it really it kind of makes the game seem more immature because
there isn't really any actual sex in any meaningful way well because they're afraid to show any
nipples or dogs like just straight up there's like Austin Powers bedpost in front of each
nipple in those and you know what I get it but like I don't know you can hit her don't well it's
that and it just seems as though they they don't want to depict people actually making physical
context is the sense that I get a lot of these things like for technical reasons I think that
that's because that's very hard to do technically it's just hard to depict people kissing because
that is like technically hard so there's a lot of like faces kind of coming close to one another as
like I'm thinking of Benedict as scenes early on yes yes yes but then also this is just a world
that seems very sexless like it does seem like a final fantasy ish world but right I know but like
this is they're trying to do the Game of Thrones thing but this does not seem like a world where
anybody ever has had sex and specifically motivated by it or has an important sexual relationship
that makes them do dumb things as happens on Game of Thrones yeah okay yes all of that but no I mean
literally these people have never had sex like Jill and Clive are like besties they're clearly like
sort of attracted to one another they're both really good looking people they have been
touring the world just the two of them for years now after the second after the second time jump
five years and like maybe at some point this will be alluded to but it's never even mentioned whether
they've like hooked up at all and it seems like I don't know in a more mature version of this game
it would make less of a big deal out of that but it would just be like I don't know part of the
story is that they have some complicated like on again off again sexual relationship and like that
's not in and at all because it actually is this like weirdly plastic coated world that is still
like being like everybody says fuck all the time and like look this person has side boob and so it
just kind of feels like it's trying to have it both ways and it's yeah succeeding it neither yeah
so yeah I won't get into what happens after the second time skip of course but I will say that
the things that strike me about how about the stories problems are one first and foremost how it
treats women um how a treat still how a treat's been a dick that what you guys have seen because
it's not like that it comes back she did that she dies I was like I think she's a fun campy
sexy villainess I was ready for her to be in the mix super fun yeah man so when I saw that like oh
she's sleeping with barn of us yeah what's gonna happen there that could be really interesting
she's in sexist power like how how is that gonna play out literally nothing it just goes
nowhere she just dies and like she's the first character to be killed jill's character arc again
I won't get into specifics but look literally she has nothing it does not get better like she
exists to serve clive and to make him transform to make to change him uh to make his arc continue
it's really disappointing um and that to me was the thing that really stood out to me there's
us of the whole weird race thing where like they talked about how they only have white characters
which because they wanted to create an authentic Europe which like well and that this is a game
about enslaved people like yeah well that's I mean yeah that's a whole other like but even straight
up if you're like you know we're only doing rich nobility in Europe so we're only gonna be white
okay that's one thing but then you go to a friggin Middle Eastern like town like country where
everyone's clearly it's clearly Africa inspired and everybody's just white and like a little tan
super weird super disappointing um yeah I think you make some good points about the plasticity
of it all um I don't know if I ever really expected it to go I don't know I I guess I kind of like
was taking it for what it's worth like on face value and being like look let's see how this
politics thing plays out there's some interesting kind of betrayals and warfare stuff here
and then that got really disappointing and you guys are where you're in for a treat with the
spectacle I mentioned before you're in for less of a treat I do kind of want to look up
what happens now if I just play it well you'll you'll decide if you want to play it one quick
thing we should and there's been a lot of talk about final fantasy what is final fantasy anywhere
is this really feel like a final fantasy game I happen to think that it feels very much like a
final fantasy game in fact it feels a little too much it feels like they're stuffing too many
final fantasy references into the thing all over the place but it also is missing some things that
I really love about final fantasy specifically it takes itself too seriously and there isn't a lot
of levity there isn't a lot of just kind of that fun weirdness that I think might even help it
I think Kirk I think what works in final fantasy for me play a game like final fantasy six that might
also not feel like a game that people are having sex in they're like that there is any kind of
anything below the surface too much but it also has that kind of Saturday morning cartoon
feel which I think helps make it feel a little more tonally consistent that's not trying to
yeah yeah exactly it's not trying to be game of thrones is trying to be like an anime inspired
sort of story and I think it makes the characters a lot more relatable and interesting and makes you
grip on to them a little bit more than like the fourth dude who is big and muscular and
curses a lot that you meet on your adventures or like the third woman who oh it turns out she's
a prostitute like it's just it's it's I think that is what miss is missing really in this game is
that kind of lightheartedness that sense of humor that might help string it all together it feels
like it's trying to be super dark and really missing the mark there yeah I would love if it was
more like Hercules legendary journeys or Zena and tone as opposed to trying for game of thrones
and then drawing the comparison that like oh it's not really subverting the tropes not deep enough
the characters aren't really deep enough like you can just be corny you can just have a good time
with some medieval fantasy tropes and some boosties like that's okay but don't try for grm
I think one thing that maybe we can close on with this game is that at least we know this isn't
what final fantasy now is because that's right fantasy always changes which is a very cool thing that
they tried this they did a devil may cry game that's also kind of like sexualist game of thrones okay
it's pretty cool I like it I'm gonna keep playing it even though it obviously has all these problems
as well but it's nice to know yeah they tried this next time who knows what they'll try like each one
is gonna be really different and that is something that I have always like to continue to like about
this series yeah right on yep here's hoping they go a little more RPG even if the combat is gonna
be real time I think you need a lot more you need to feel a little more like more gear remakes
that third thing we haven't talked about me so the side quest correct to your point earlier
they're fine yeah I should have said that I did a bunch of side quests they're not fine they're
terrible they're like I'm a side quest I was like I literally feel like a ff 14 yeah therefore
they're straight out of ff 14 there's like lots of sand I talked about this last week you're
picking up lots of sand and you guys I did do that you haven't you still haven't gotten to the
excuse me those were soil samples but that's true there's more stuff like that and you guys haven't
really gone to the really like pace crawling just like the fetch quests that you have to go on
between you have these big like incredible spectacles and then you just have to go and find
go by garlic at the supermarket for someone so yeah I mean it's that stuff also isn't good and
really it's just the combat and the production value of it all that holds up this game I think
for a lot of people that's enough in a campaign that's not enough yeah it was enough to make it
pretty good for me through the whole game the combat is most of what you're doing and watching
cutscenes is most of what you're doing so if you kind of turn your mind off you get through it
I'm very curious to see if you guys do mind of finishing I'm very curious to see what you think
of like the end turn and the final act of the game but we'll talk about that down the road if you do
finish it for now let's take a break and we'll be back with one more thing
what is up people of the world do you have an argument that you keep having with your friends
and you just can't seem to settle it and you're sitting there arguing about whether it's star
trek or star wars or you can't decide what is the best nut or can't agree on what is the best
cheese stop doing that listen to we got this with mark and how only on max fun your topics ask
and answered objectively definitively for all time so don't worry everybody we got this they can
be anywhere at your office in your car and they are wrong my mom says that the gray house didn't
exist but she's wrong he just doesn't run someone in your life is wrong about something something
small something weird something vitally important only one person has the courage to tell them
just how wrong they are you know what you did was wrong but your daughter is a liar who eats garbage
they call me judge John Hodgman listen to me on the judge John Hodgman podcast
if someone in your life is doing you wrong don't just take it take it to court submit your case
at maximumfund.org slash J J H O and we are back for one more thing Kirk Matty let's talk about
what else we are doing and playing and experiencing and thinking about Kirk why don't you go first
sure I will go first this is mostly a PSA to remind everybody that a re-release of a great game
recently came out and they can finally play it or replay it and that is ghost trick phantom
detective it is a DS game from sort of late in the DS's run that I initially played actually on
iOS in a very very kind of compromised way that I don't think I can play anymore on my phone
it's a game that I really love when I played it though I had meant to play it on DS because
I knew about it because this game is written and directed by Shu Takumi who is the creator of
Ace Attorney series and has a kind of similar aesthetic a similar feel despite being pretty
different in a lot of ways and it has been re-released on what PC consoles it's on switch to be great
on switch I've been playing it on steam deck it's great it's great on a handheld and is it really
a really just delightful game so the way this game works is it's a story well kind of like a
visual novel mixed with a puzzle solving game it tells the story of sisal that is your character
a ghost who does not remember how he died or how he became a ghost but finds himself in the middle
of this complicated situation his dead body is there there's like a guy holding a gun on a woman
and he is a ghost and he like wakes up and is like what's going on and then this other ghost
starts talking to him and explains that hey if you don't want her to die you can freeze time and
you can start to manipulate things in the environment and if you've seen the movie the Patrick
Swazie movie ghost where he begins knocking things around in the environment and eventually like
gets the power to sort of you know protect Demi Moore that's basically what you're doing is
you're kind of moving through things in the object and you know knocking them around and then
eventually because you can only possess inanimate objects you're sort of like you have to open
an umbrella so the umbrella falls to the floor and then you're on the floor which lets you be
close to the phone and then you make the phone ring and that distracts the guy so you're doing these
kind of Ruben Goldberg and puzzles and each chapter is another person is in parallel or in
jeopardy and Sissel unbeknownst to them is helping save them while getting to the bottom of how he was
killed and what's going on and so there are large sort of narrative sections that play out the whole
thing is really beautifully animated it's this wonderful cartoony art style the animations in
particular remember we're very cool on the DS like it looks I don't know the way characters move
they all have these very stylish sort of slow ways moving there's this detective who kind of like
disco dances his way out on this onto the stage it feels like a stage there's a lot of spotlights
a lot of sort of stage craft in this game and almost feels like you're watching a stage production
so anyways I mean I loved this game I was really surprised by how much I loved it when I played
through it on my iPhone I think the story just has a lot of heart it really goes some surprising
places it has one of the greatest dogs in video game yeah I was waiting for you to bring a missile
cuz yeah missile an absolute little pomeranian yeah the hilarious pomeranian sort of the id of
every dog and every pomeranian is expressed through missile like missile yeah one of the
kind of like he's always speaking at exclamations and it's sissel and missile it's exactly
the next instead of names and it's yeah it is a fantastic it is a game that without any spoilers
I will say if you play all the way through to the end it winds up being a really beautiful and
touching story and I really was moved by it and loved the story in the end which is actually
something that I don't always feel about ace attorney ace attorney will have its moments
there are times when I'm like oh I really love these characters but they usually you know there
are a series of sort of discrete cases that sort of tie together in the end but they never really
do as much as you want them to this one really ties together it's maybe the best story of any of
these types of capcom narrative puzzle whatever you want to call it in this style of game and I
just really recommend it I know there's a lot of other games out but it's pretty different than
everything else and especially anyone out there who any of that sounds cool to you and you haven't
played it yet I do really recommend it cuz I love this game yeah it's so good I'm excited to
replay it I haven't played it since 2010 but I'm excited to say nice um Maddie what's your one more
thing um my one more thing is a movie uh called Boston Strangler which is an amazing heroic journalist
to movie which is one of my favorite genres of me too we simply love a heroic journalist
I think it's a spotlight like yes because it is also based on a true story in Boston in
sudden Boston yeah at the Boston Record American which later oh my god it has Carrie Coon in it
what very good in it and co-stars with Kira Knightley the two of them play Bostonians Kira
tries her best Boston accent it's actually not too bad uh and they both play Kirk looks so excited
I'm watching the trailer for this how did I not know about this and Chris Cooper oh I'm gonna
I can't wait to watch that I loved it we both loved it and I really enjoyed looking into the
stories that the two real life women reported on about the Boston Strangler and just the case
overall which is a pretty complicated case the police the BPD good old BPD fucked up a lot
of stuff with this case and that's a huge part of the reporting on it I just I don't know I loved
it mainly because I didn't know a ton about it and then really enjoyed learning more but also
uh since it's set in the 60s and it's about two women reporters who are both married uh and then
have to deal with like juggling their families and the social expectations that they would not be
working on top of getting these incredible scoops about a literal freaking serial killer is just
a really cool watch like a very very cool historical watch and yeah Kira Koon and Kira Knightley two
of my faves love them that's what I highly recommend it uh very very good movie I haven't seen
Kira Knightley in anything in a long time that's also um yeah I want to point out that so this is
on Hulu uh I want to point out that the fact that Kirk who keeps up on pop culture and this is
designed for this is meant for has never heard of this I think the fact that Kirk Hamilton has
never heard of this movie is kind of evidence of what I was talking about a few weeks ago with
the WGA about how this streaming ecosystem is not gonna last and how we're good and to this world
that is just a lot more condensed a lot more like the old the old wave of things because it's the
fact that Hulu produced this movie that like someone like Kirk would love but he's never even heard
of it is really testament it's really silly and I I feel like we were only marketed it because
Dina watches so much true crime that is honestly way too scary for me to actually stomach and so it
was on her Hulu I think but actually this movie is not that gory and it's mostly a journalism
movie which again one of my favorite genres ever especially if it's based on actual historical
reporting and like how they got the story which cops they talked to who they had to freaking deal
with in order to solidify these leads it's just really good it's so good and I I'm seeing it's
like just getting okay reviews so I feel like maybe this is a movie that's just for journalists
like again it's not so much like a true crime movie and the way that some people might want it to be
but the review is a kind of journalist now I guess they're more film critics so I don't know what's
wrong with them I loved it Boston Strangler 2023 movie it's on Hulu really really cool movie
okay cool my one more thing is a book a fictional book called everybody knows by Jordan Harper
this came out earlier this year I saw a blurb about it in the New York Times and thought hmm
this sounds really really good and it was really really good it is a book about Los Angeles it's kind
of an LA noir so to speak set in the modern era so it's a very modern LA neo noir one might call
it and it starts this woman named Mei who is a high pro who is a publicist for high profile clients
who is one of those kind of black ball publicists meaning she does crisis management so if you have
just murdered a prostitute in your hotel room Mei is who you call and she comes and she spins it
for you and she cleans it up and she she gets some friendly journalist like scandal like the
scandal is about that that type of character a fixer exactly that is exactly what it is yes it
is that type of and so it is about her and this character who's really good and well well
constructed and then it's also about this other dude named Chris who is kind of a bodyguard mercenary
type who works for this company that is contracted by Mei PR firm among other places
and then as the story goes on we find out that Mei and Chris they knew each other in the past
they had a relationship together in the past and they together they call the Hollywood apparatus
they call the beast and they both work for different parts of the beast and as the story goes on
and on there's this big murder mystery someone dies and you want to know who and how and why and
stuff and it all feeds into the beast and the the Hollywood apparatus that they slowly entangle and
find out who's in the center of it and find out what's in the center of it and it explores power
and money and sex and a lot of me too related stuff and it could have I think a story like this in
the wrong hands could have been very ham-fisted and kind of really fallen flat but this actually
works really well it's really well done I thought and really compulsive to read it's a really
just well constructed thriller very short chapters lots of cliffhanger is that sort of thing
but also not like a not the type of thriller that you'll read and be like oh okay on to the next
thing like a McDonald's style like a McNuggets thriller it's more of a thriller that will actually
leave you with some interesting things to think about and like what kind of like what's the role
of truth and burning everything to the ground and what if you are helpless because you can only do
so much speaking truth to power and it really will end up like just leading nowhere and how powerful
like if you're rich and powerful will you ever really be held accountable it asks a lot of these
questions and I think both of you would really enjoy it it's actually just also a very quick read
I read it in a day so really easy to get through so yeah I highly recommend this book again
everybody knows it's called by Jordan Harper that sounds like James Elroy it sounds like black
dolly or early confidential have you read other of those books and now you'd like a large
confidential I mean that and that movie is also very very good yes it's in the style of those kind
of like Los Angeles Mars um I watched a lot of scandals so I feel like I owe it to myself and media
health to just read this book because it might be better yeah it's good it's it's a little depressing
but also ends well I won't say how it ends but it but it's not like it's not like you're gonna read
this super and leave super depressed um the other interesting thing is that it's set as like
Los Angeles is burning pretty much the entire time which is kind of a fun a fun bit there's a lot
of fun imagery there and a lot of fun exploration there and yeah I just really enjoyed it just
really good back okay cool that is it for this week's episode Kirk Maddie I will see you both next
week yeah see you both next week bye
triple click is produced by Jason Shryer Maddie Myers and me Kirk Hamilton I edit next the show
and also wrote our theme music our show art is by Tom DJ some of the games and products we talked
about on this episode may have been sent to us for free for review consideration you can find
the link to our ethics policy in the show notes triple click is a proud member of the maximum
fun podcast network and if you like our show we hope you'll consider supporting us by becoming
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