Former WWE writer sues, alleging racial discrimination
Hello everybody and welcome to another edition of Wrestleomics radio. I'm Brandon Thurston broadcasting live and on demand for Buffalo, New York
Where today is Sunday April 30th
2023 and we are joined today by the man who still has the blue checkmark Chris Guller. Good morning everybody
and
Another man who did design have a blue checkmark like me Jesse calling slow
No my
Application for the blue checkmark was still being processed when a Elon bot Twitter
So I think that was the end of my ability to get a blue checkmark. Yes. If you have eight dollars though
You could have one but anyway we talked about that last week
We have some things to discuss the the new lawsuit against wb from a former writer a legend racial discrimination
wrongful termination
We'll get to that
Comcast had an earnings report. We have an update on peacock subscribers
We have some quick info graphics on us media rights values across across the space
As one might say and we'll look into whether Vince has actually tanked business already. We will examine that
And we have the biggest event of all it will be last. It's the main event. So you better stay for the whole program here
It is time today for the Wrestleomics draft
What does that mean these two individuals have only recently found out?
But more of you will learn in the moments to come today
So we can't start until cleetus the Fox Sports football robot is here because he's in my draft room
But what is cleetus this box Fox Sports robot?
He's like he's the mascot for like Fox football. He's a robot and during the one of the WWE drafts
They've been in the past when they had like the war rooms from like USA and Fox like they actually had the robot
Like was in the Fox war room and he was like really celebrating when they drafted like to meet a snooker or whoever
Was being drafted smackdown
Okay, if you want to participate in it with a super chat today, you are encouraged to do so if you have a question or a comment
Any any big news from the NFL draft?
The bills took a tight end
Why
Don't we already have a good yeah, just another weapon up, but he's inconsistent in catching the ball
He's all around a great player, but they wanted another weapon for Josh Allen
Still didn't really address that number two by receiver spot, but you know it is what it is
And bill Belichick the master strategist. What did he do with the draft?
Apparently players didn't want to play for I'm not a trip. I'm not a draft Nick
I honestly don't care at all about like
Following the draft or having an opinion like I know anything about these players that they drafted
I'm told that the for their first room pick they took a cornerback named Christian Gonzalez
And I was told that he fell in the draft and it was a huge steal that the Patriots were able to get him
He was not happy though. I'll pay attention when you like after you looked very upset
Drafted by them. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure that's that's for a real thing. That's true
They took a kicker in the fourth rounds
They've taken some o line men and some defensive players Patriots rarely draft skilled position players very highly
So it's usually just a bunch of guys, and I'm not gonna pretend to know a lot about you know the quality of like
Marte Mappu
I'm back from Sacramento State. I'm not gonna act like I watched a lot of Sacramento State football
This was a conference today playing Sacramento State
So I know in basketball. I'm pretty sure they play in the big West
I know it's they're not a division one
Program for football they're probably like
It's not division two it's pretty I would imagine that they play in the I don't know what it's called now
I used to have become one double a and then I think it was called it was called like the College Football Bowl
Subdivision it's like a weird
Cross between division one and division and if you wanted to watch that on television what network would you watch that?
I would assume yes ESPN plus has a lot of those
1 AA games, so I would imagine that the ESPN plus does a lot of that stuff where they have a lot of um
Like very niche sports contents
So they have like the all of the smaller conference like all of the small
Smaller conferences in college that don't have like really big you know
Television rights like the big 12 or the big 10 or the SEC those are almost all on ESPN plus
and they cover like a
Lot of sports like you could go watch like you know woman's college volleyball
you know between
Lafayette and
Drexel University and that's probably on ESPN plus
Well with that we will commence three white guys talking about a racism lawsuit if you want to read Chris Ealy's
opinion article on Russell n on calm that is up now where he's talking about
This this story as well as just w. What's history?
with
Talent who are people of color and how they have been portrayed on the screen which will be relevant to this case as we
summarize it here, so
this was filed I believe on Monday and
I'm supposed to be checking pace or I told myself I'm gonna check pace or which is they a lawsuit
filing system every day I should be checking it every day, but I miss this we learned about this on Wednesday after was probably
sitting there for a day or two
But former W writer Brittany Abrahams is suing the company as well as the individual staff that you can see on the screen here
So that is Vince McMahon
Stephanie McMahon and other members of writing staff for the creative team Chris Dunn Ryan Kallahan Jennifer Pepperman Christine Lebrono my killer
She's suing all those individuals as well as the company itself
She alleges to discriminate or discriminatory treatment harassment hostile work environment wrongful termination
unlawful retaliation due to her race color and gender
Abrahams who is black says she was wrongfully fired purportedly for taking a commemorative chair at WrestleMania in 2022
She alleges is that the reasoning was a pretext and her determination was actually because
Of retaliation for pushing back against racist creative ideas besides wb the complaint is being filed against I just said that
Um, have I pasted the entire article in these in these notes?
Um, she describes working with Bianca Belair and her interactions with fellow writers
Uh as well, so we'll go to to these various anecdotes that are brought up in the filing
She alleges that Chris Dunn intended a Bianca Belair to say quote. Uh, uh
Don't make me take off my earrings and beat your ass and quote
Which are lines based upon a cruel ugly stereotypes of dark skin black women she alleges
Uh, the plaintiff emails that the lead writer of smackdown ryan kallahan
Uh, and she wrote to him. I know I'm new and i'm not trying to be disrespectful or step on
Duns or anyone's toes
But I would be remiss if I didn't mention that miss bell air is seen
Includes racial jargon and offensive stereotypes particularly her go home line
Uh, Abrams asked how to move forward with her complaint but ryan kallahan again who is the lead writer of smackdown still to this day
Um, some of these writers are former writers at this point
But a few of them are still with the company uh kallahan
Never responded to her complaint according to abraham's uh in conversation with bianca belair the following day
Bianca belair informed the plaintiff abraham's that she told done three different times that she didn't want to say that line
But he never listens to me. He puts that line in every week
And w kept the discriminatory line in the script she alleges
Uh, then we move on to regi. It was discussed in w's writer slack
Uh before a show that a new wrestler regi would dress and drag complete with wig and tights
Quote, so he could partner with carmella a female wrestler and a tag match against other female wrestlers end quote
Uh abraham's co-worker and ria listenburger who was a writer at the time responded to the thread
Observing that putting a straight black man in drag might perpetuate harmful stereotypes that would offend viewers
That we eventually scrapped the discriminatory pitch
But only in response to a white caucasian individuals protected conduct in the form of listenburgers complaint
then apollo cruis uh
Was scripted to speak with a exaggerated nigerian accent
Uh despite abraham's complaining about it
Uh in or around the spring of 2021 ryan kallahan pitched that a white caucasian male wrestler
with a hunting gimmick shane thorne
Uh would would have that gimmick and would hunt a black male wrestler for fun
uh, the complaint says in a nutshell the said hunting gimmick pitch was for
uh thorne and regi was
Since was quote since shane is australian
We should make him a crocodile hunter and instead of hunting crocodiles. He hunts people and quote
Holding regi captive in cages was also discussed
Abraham's again objected to her superiors racially motivated miss conduct specifically stating that a gimmick where a white man
Honsay black african-american man for sport is racist
Uh ryan kallahan is alleged to have laughed and sarcastically responded. Oh, is that a bad thing?
Afterwards the plaintiff spoke to another writer brian perisi
Uh who revealed that he agreed with the plaintiff, but that the pitch was racist
Uh that the pitch was racist but that he felt too nervous to speak up about it
um
And then we go to an interaction that
Abraham says she had with jennifer pepperman who is another writer who is still with the company
According to the to the plaintiff pepperman discriminatory treated her and other black and african-american w employees
Poorly compared to other similarly situated white and Caucasian counterparts pepperman routinely and unjustifiably raised
Her voice Abraham says and made rude comments about the plaintiff and other black and african-american w employees
Pepperoni would snap at plaintiff and her similarly situated black and african-american counterparts or
Deliberately berate them in front of everyone else
Despite Abraham's complaining about this. She says w fail to take any immediate action or corrective response
This uh
In and around november 2021 a black female writers assistant was fired after w after reporting w's lead writer ryan kallahan
uh former
Created a racially hostile environment against african-american employees
In the course of an investigation in response to that abraham's described to hr discrimination and hostile work environment related to pepperman
Abraham's described racist and sexist pitches from calahan but no action was taken by wb in her view to correct that
Uh abraham's and another female black writer
kyla silvers pitched a storyline involving allia man sore and anhal garsa in which man sore would have a secret
He's keeping from allia ryan kallahan suggested according to her how about his secret is he's behind the nine 11 attacks
Silvers nervously laughed and said let's not do that. Let's talk about the other part of the pitch
Kallahan as alleged should have said oh, I guess you're the lead writer now
Another writer might my keller shared a sexist pitch for a muslim female wrestler
We're in the said female wrestler lacked authority over her own body and mind
Hellers pitch included anhal garsa being forward
An aggressive in his efforts to date allia allia being easily swayed by anhal's evil tactics and allia being confused about
Which guy she should date oscillating between two men until the end of the story line
Uh, this led to a meeting between abraham's and christine labrano who is the senior vice president of creative writing operations
She is still in that role as far as we know
um
Where labrano met with abraham's and silvers and downplayed hellers and keller hands discriminatory remarks allegedly
She says that she heard it was a joke and wacky things are said in the writer room all the time
When the plaintiff indicated that that doesn't make it okay. The barano is alleged to have responded
I know but look at the waves we're making in the company four years ago. No woman worked on the creative writers team
Uh
And she advised the plaintiff to be careful to pick and choose your battles
Uh, then at abrassal mania just over a year ago in 2022
Uh, she took a commemorative chair from the floor. This is the russel mania commemorative chair that we're seeing on the screen here. I suppose
Uh, many other writers took chairs. They were not punished. She was fired as a result of this
She claims that this is a pretext for
firing her as retaliation to her various complaints about
racist pitches and other pitches that she complained about
Um
She's seeking an award of damages in an amount to be determined at trial. So she's not naming an amount of money that she's looking for
So that's that's where we are. She's being defended by the cockren firm. Yes
The firm that was founded by johnny cockren. Oh, jesimson trial fame
Um
So it'll be interesting to see how w responds to this
Um, there may be pressure to settle this because of the merger is coming up
W may want this
This litigation may be other litigation. Maybe the mll litigation for that matter
Um, off the books before the merger is complete, but we'll see
Any thoughts on this
I think there's two different primary ways people talk about this or what i've seen people talk about this
And we can talk about it from like a legal sense of like, oh, do we think that this
Will hold up in court? What do we think a judge would say about this?
Will ww settle those kind of aspects of it? Um
Which is a complicated legal matter and i'm probably not the best person to be judging that
Um
But we can also talk about this in a way of like, what does this say about ww? What does it say about their writing team?
Um, some of these pitches that you described some of them we didn't see on television, right?
So they got kaboshd at some point. We didn't see man. So we're saying he was responsible for 9 11. We didn't see
um
You know the a hector carza angle
Um, we did see red screws using the exact right next we didn't see apollo crews
and there are
We did see the ocular using that line. I may have gone back in the video archives, but she alleges that it did it
It was uttered on the air. Yeah, we we've um
And we've we've heard of other stories and things like that just in recent years
um
There was the the jordan miles t-shirt the acht shirt
um
from a number a few years ago and xt
um
There is uh, I thought um
I don't know his lot. I can't pronounce his last name. So I apologize
But kazim cas from the mass man show on the ringer who used to be a writer for ww told a story about how
um
When leo rush was originally going to be paired with bobby lashley. They wanted to call they were referring to leo russia's
Bobby lashley's handler
um in cas told a story about how he went to vincec man and had to
argue on behalf of why they shouldn't call him a handler and why instead to call him a hype man
And then he had to explain in great detail what hype man means to vince
um
But there are plenty of incidents that we can point to and say that may be the writing staff
and
By extension vincec man who is ultimately overseeing your responsible for the writing staff
Do not have the most
racially sensitive
um ideas
And this goes back to the history of pro wrestling which is always coasted off of stereotypes
Usually far after the rest of entertainment has kind of shed
coasting off of those stereotypes
And it's just really evident in vince's historical creative
That when vince wants you to get a personality when vince wants to get you a new character
He often leans on cultural
racial and national stereotypes for that person and we've seen that
Over and over again, um even just looking at the main roster now
Okay, the um
You know legato del fantasma right they're an nxt the gimmick is they're kind of like
self-american and latin american businessman
Mm, they come up to the main roster and now they have to be the lw. Oh, they got to be the latino world order
And they got to wear these mexican t shirts that the mexican flag on them because they have to be more
Outwardly mexican because that's how vince sees talent
And this is a boy in an era where triple h has more creative influence than ever and vince
Right vince is back, but perhaps not in as much much influence as he was in
Before last year july
Walter can't be vaulter. He has to be
Gunter and he has to be more german because vaulter wasn't german enough of a name
He's got to have a more obviously german name because he's got to be more german
I mean, right in the context of this lawsuit you have shain thorne being who's australian has not given an australian crock
Instead of a crocodile hunter hilhorn people
Right he like he's they even have you seen there's a photo of him at a house show kind of wearing the get-up of that character
um
That that's been going around of him. Yeah, he's got to be the crocodile hunter. Um, I mean, I
I would so that says the the what what's alleged in this
Filing in this complaint
Um, it's as far as yes, there's a lot of ideas here that didn't make it to screen
Now she's she's complaining too about how her criticism or her her response to these ideas
Was was not taken seriously
Um, but it's not surprising that these this sort of thing would be happening in the writers room that that is led by
Ultimately by vince man, this is not like vince man was in these rooms
But he's the head of creative and that's who they're working for
And in in recent years we've seen gendered mohall in 2017
Uh, he has as christie lee wrote in his article that just went up this morning
He sort of had to be a heal because he was indian or that that was his you know
He was he was basically an evil foreigner in 2017 and uh, he used you know
He did racist things towards you know said racist things towards shinskin akamura in the course of their program working together
I believe vince himself. I believe the years
2015
He he does a promo with roman reigns where he tells roman reigns as a way of getting heal heat
You're you're one generation removed from having a bone in your nose. So, um
It's it's believable that there's there's some sort of cultural systemic
influence in w's creative that
allows for
racist ideas
It's still you know vince longs for the days when this was more permissible that you could use racist tropes
And racist stereotypes to get a response from an audience
I think I think I mean vince I would somewhat vince's creative as vince wants to see vince is not
Like pop culturally literate at all
Um, and I feel like his idea of characters are rough archetypes that would exist in like a 1950s cartoon
Um, and so everyone just has to lean into like this lowest con the common denominator archetype and if you're
Uh, i'm not a white wrestler from america
It's almost always going to be based on your heritage or your culture or what makes you different
and
I guess there's a difference between you know, right vince is vince racist right or vince has you know
Martin Luther king jr's big idol events every year
He always plays a martin with her king jr video on martin Luther king jr. Day. So yeah
And so like so like is vince vince can't be racist
But I definitely think that the sensibilities are just from a creative end are not there to reach it
2023 audience and that's why we see you know, we can talk about the pitch ideas
But we see so much of it make television
Um in the apollo cruise one is a great example because now we have some evidence to see how that if there was push back in the writers room
Against the apollo cruise thing which it seems like there was if you believe this lawsuit and yet that still made television
Um
And there's still stuff on the on the show today that you could point to um, I mean a kira tazawa
Remember when they were doing the ninja gimmick like a couple years ago too. That's another example. Yeah
Another one. Yeah
It's just I mean even like every british wrestler has to be a king or a snob at some point
Almost every foreign wrestler has to cut the ginger ball haul promo with like you americans
You know, you know, you're so gross and filthy and
Um, it's not good creative
It doesn't really get anyone over and that's the other aspect of this that I can't help
But when i'm reading about like the on hell garsa mansor alia angle and i'm like if this was on television
None of these people would get over doing it. It wouldn't help any of these people
Actually become like wrestling stars, but this is what they're spending their time on and the writers are discussing
Um, i'm familiar with this arm
Flandersation
Right, right when a character devolves into being um
Kind of a one note joke, right?
Which again, i'm not the biggest simpsons fan but but purportedly, you know, net flanders
Became more reductive and and more more simple and dumber as as the seasons went on in the simpsons
And i think there's something very similar in invincence's approach to creative and that you
And he probably views it as a marketing strategy
I have to use the most basic
basic thing that i see in this person and i see that as the most marketable thing about them and
W has had an increasingly diverse roster and i think that has
in in some ways further encouraged vince to
rely on stereotypes and further increased the hazards for him to to put stereotypes on the screen
um despite sort of wider culture moving in the other direction
And there was this, you know, I thought it was really obvious when they were pushing drew mac and taira a couple of years ago
And you know, he won the title at ruslamania and it was pandemic era and he kind of didn't have a fair chance at it
But there was definitely a point where you could tell where vince was like
People got to believe in drew more he's got to have more of a character
And so what was that character? He had to become more scottish. She had to paint his face like brave heart
He had to get a big sword. He had to tell scottish folk stories in this promos
He just had to become more of this one thing that vince viewed him as
Yeah, he had to wear a kilt like and he's still going on right now
It's he couldn't just be like a normal person from scottland that you would actually believe is a regular person
He had to become this cartoon character based on his national heritage
Apollo cruises the same thing. Apollo needs a new character. I don't know what he's supposed to be
So, oh what's that? He's Nigerian american
Well now we're gonna lean into that and he's gonna be carrying a spear and he's gonna be talking in a false Nigerian accent
He's gonna have a Nigerian drum match at ruslamania. It's the same. I mean there's there's time in the ball and blues ww
It's creative. They're supposed to be like irish olegans and a bar like stereotypes
Yeah, they just again they devolved to the national stereotype
There was something else in that lawsuit that I found kind of interesting
And it was when regarding the aca bell air
I think the plaintiff says that other writers had spoken that they have a hard time writing for
Yanka bell air pride. I'm not sure what's seen many many of the w writers commonly complain that they didn't know what to do with miss bell air
Right. They don't really understand
Her character they don't understand what to do with her kind of personality
Um because right the big one of the big pushbacks of that earrings line was that it would make bianca said that would make her sound too ghetto
Right, and that's not bianca bell air's character just because she's a black woman doesn't mean she has to talk like that
um
And it kind of shows
You know the lack of perspective in the writers room that maybe if there's only one black female writer or two black female writers
That not the entire writing stuff is maybe not going to know what to do
With the black female wrestler outside of very basic stereotypes
Um, and it it's kind of reflective in like what bianca bell air has actually been doing for the past year where
Yes, she has been protected. Yes. She has won all our matches and she's been champion for a year
But she's not necessarily being engaged in like the most interesting storylines or feuds
I think her whole feud with damage control has been going on forever and has been largely disappointing
Her buildup for her Wrestlemania match against asca didn't necessarily have a ton of creative juice put into it
It's kind of obvious that the writing staff or whoever is in charge of creative in ww these days
Does not have like a ton of awesome ideas for bianca bell air and she's kind of just treading water
Despite the fact that she's still being protected and presented at a high level
But there's clearly not a lot of creative direction put for her character and her feuds
Well again, we have the article that's up for free right now on wrestlingomics.com
By chris ealy talking about this subject we urge you to to check that out
um
I think everyone in the chat is is in deep agreement with everything that we're saying so we appreciate everyone in the chat
uh
So we will move to the Comcast earnings report
Comcast reported this past thursday their first quarter earnings
Um, i'm going to reference a summary by john polik of post wrestling
Uh pikok is still losing a lot of money of course, but pikok subscribers are up slightly sequentially 22 million subscribers
Uh, which is year over year is up a lot. It's up 60 from the prior q1
Um, that was a q1 that had the super bowl in it unlike this year
It was a q1 that had the olympics in unlike this year
Uh, but pikok remains a major source of losses for the company with the streamer losing approximately
704 million dollars throughout the corridor
Although its revenue increased 45 to 685
So there's 685 million dollars in revenue 705 million dollars in
In expenses so it's losing so it's not expenses. It's losing
705 million dollars so their expenses are probably the combination of those two over a billion dollars
um
Previously, Comcast had projected three billion dollars in losses for 2023
Uh, which represents the peak year for losses for pikok
So this is happening of course while Comcast is also a cable company
They reported some losses in their cable subscribers as they have been that's not some some new trend of course
um
so
Subscribers are continuing to grow a little bit at least for for Comcast they were at
They I believe they reported it over 20 million
They don't break this out in the same sort of detail that they break out their subscriber counts and things of that nature
Uh, they sort of put a line in there in the earnings report saying
This is how many peacocks subscribers we got but they do do give them a numeric value to it at least
There's no no mere year-over-year percentage differences as we get for
Uh, say w viewership on pikok
So peacock subscribers are still growing a little bit. Um, we also had some big big news coming out of mbcu in that jeff shell
Uh, who is the ceo or was the ceo of mbc universal? He resigned
Uh, this was news that came out last week late sunday just after we were done recording at last week
Uh, an scc filing was published this past week saying shell quote engaged in inappropriate conduct with a female employee
Including allegations of sexual harassment end quote
Shell made a statement saying he had an inappropriate relationship with a woman in the company which he deeply regrets
He said quote i'm truly sorry. I let my comcast and mbc universal colleagues down end quote
Shell who had been with comcast for about two decades. Uh, he left the company immediately
Um taking his place is mbc you
executive mike kavanaugh
Uh, he said on the comcast call that there will be no strategy change in mbc universal
He's already been part of setting broad strategies with the overall leadership throughout the organization and jeff shell leaving
doesn't change that so
Did least we could say, you know, this is not like say when brat white's
Left of wbd when the one the merger went into effect and some leadership changed and there was
You know aew anxiety about what that would mean for aew will will wbd still like wrestling
Even though they've got some leadership changes, you know, cathleen finches is in that role. Anyway, this is a totally different
Uh setting here as mbc you they obviously do major business with wb both in terms of pcock and in terms of raw and nxt and miss and missus
Uh, does this mean?
Maybe the new leaders won't like wrestling probably not not a big deal at all
Uh, I don't expect this is going to I don't don't see any reason
To think that this is going to be meaningfully different for w's
current negotiations
Perhaps with mbc universal for for raw or maybe other properties
um
But in ww so significant within mbc use umbrella that the idea of
Or does this person like wrestling? Is they not like wrestling?
Probably doesn't play that big of a factor right in the sense like eusa network really needs ww particularly raw
um
Survive as a as a channel raw raw is
usa networks biggest show by a wide wide margin nikon uses the talking lights
It's the biggest show times three, but it's I don't know if it's that far ahead
But it's it's very far ahead of anything else on the usa network
um, and I think that um
So it's not like this this there's differences that come into play right like
Kevin riley who had an executive role with with turner
Was obviously a fan of pro wrestling and believed in in in tony con's idea and that's how they ended up connection
And that's how they ended up on on
you know
Turner networks
and
That that in that case it really matters to have like an advocate in and someone who really likes pro wrestling or believes in pro wrestling as a
Content
Going to bat for you right but once you're on the network and once you're delivering
You know number one ratings almost every monday night not during football season
Like ww raw is and you've been there for 30 years or for the better part of 30 years
um
I don't think no like you don't necessarily need a champion or advocate
For you because your record speaks for yourself and you're so important to the network in general
Um does what is bonnie hammer? She fully retired
She has rustled some sort of Russell namax hall of famer
She's still on the corporate website is some sort of uh some sort of leader still with mbc universal
And for people that don't know bonnie himers long time
mbcu executive who's always been very uh a big champion of pro wrestling and ww and has played a major role in
establishing wwe and mbc's relationship. She's the vice chairman of mb c universal is her
official title
Um but in she so she's not retired yet because she that's one of those things where she was talking about she's gonna retire
Like I feel like this is something that's been talked about by ten years that that they still work with her when he was on
He was on one of his interviews. He was asked who do you work with on those deals and he said well we're across
uh
Pete bakavela, I think is is one of the the names who's often
Mentioned in me right negotiations, but but jeff shell and bonnie hammer he mentioned and I think a few others too
If this was a if this was fox and not mbcu
That was seeing this shake up. I think that maybe would be a little more consequential because smackdown on fox is not necessarily as important to the fox brand as like
Monadette raw is to usa or or the ww library on pcock
um
So I think like if that was the case but because it's mbc you I don't think it really is gonna play that big of a factor
Yes
I thought there was some irony in in wb's biggest business partner by fairly wide margin
There's no doubt about that something like 30 40 of w's annual revenue comes from mbc universal by way of the bra rights the pcock rights
um ceo of that company had an inappropriate relationship with uh an employee and resigns
I would like to be in the room when vince a fan was briefed on that news
So anyway, if we look at the progression over time of these um tv rights fees
Here's us subscribers across streaming pcock is probably in my estimation above paramount plus
Uh, but below espm plus so on the lower tier certainly of of where these streaming services are
Uh across the us so they in a tier higher than that likely is is well certainly is disney plus hulu
And probably them max the combined hbo and discovery plus will will be in that range too
And nefflix well above the rest of them
um, and I have here on the chart in the sort of uh bluish green the mvpd
Is anyone know what mvpd stands for?
Well, I assume has some to do with cables subscribers
Multi multi-channel video programming distributor something like that
It's basically cable satellite and then we have vm vpd which is the virtual that is
youtube tv sling hulu live
So if you combine all that together, I have to do some estimating to get to this number
But you combine all that together you have about 77 million subscribers and that's declining over time
Are we getting to the point on the current trajectory?
Let's say let's take the trailing. I don't know six quarters or something like that on that trajectory
Are we getting to the point where like that number will be lower than the biggest streaming service nefflix?
Um, it's not going to happen anytime soon, but it's is going to get closer that gap is going to get closer
Um, but we probably do we could say that there's more households that
That subscribe to at least one streaming service than there are our households that subscribe to traditional pay tv
That's already happening
And so that's I don't know what that what it means, but that's something to keep our eye on is
Is um the way that people consume medium and the amount of money that they spend on on that media?
Changes over time. Um
I did google trends on peacock
as
It's obviously not telling me like what the subscriber rate is, but what's the interest are people searching for peacock more?
Because maybe that means more people are signing up and what we see in uh in in the google trends for peacock
Is we've got some really big peaks here for
February 2022 that's got to be the super bowl right of last year
And then we see a really big peak here around thanksgiving
There were thanksgiving games football games on on peacock i'm guessing that's on right
Uh this pass
NBC gets the prime time one. So I think they
They like coast dream on the uh simulcast here
And was there any bump here for wrestling a week this year?
Yeah, a relative bump. It's nothing on the scale of these nfl bumps as as you would expect the nfl interest is
phabums above uh w interest but during wrestling a week we do see a tick from tick up from the following weeks
Uh and what about in the week prior we do see this bump over here in 2022
Which is an increase over the weeks before it so we are seeing an increase in searching around peacock
Around Wrestlemania time which is what what you should expect. I think if w is really helping that service
And then what about Wrestlemania itself?
Wrestlemania itself searches for Wrestlemania were at their highest point since at least 2019
I didn't look at weekly you don't get weekly granularity if you go further back than a uh a time course of like five years
But we but searches for the Wrestlemania topic were higher in 2023 than they were in 2022
2021
2020 or even pre pandemic 2019
um, which I think is reflective of
This this notion that I I believe that but w interest is is at a higher point than then in previous years
Especially with Wrestlemania this year. It was definitely if you compared it to Wrestlemania's over the past few years
Definitely felt like there was much more interest in the top
You know match and the top key matches and the angles going into it
Um, and I think that shows that we can have a major star like the honor of my stereo that that metrics are going to increase
So
That was for chat
Comment
On on how big would draw down a misterio is feel feel free to to kind of turn with us here
I had a dream. I was on I was me. I was doing a podcast and it was last night. I had a dream where as me
Dominick misterio and filthy tom lawler. We're doing a podcast
That's an interesting podcast. Is that it? Is that a future episode of the general wrestling podcast?
No, but I think the context of it was I was I have a I have a
episode of recording tomorrow and I forgot to
In the dream I had forgot to record it with my person
I was supposed to record it with because I was too busy talking to Dominic misterio and filthy tom on their podcast
I don't know if I have dreams about being on a podcast, but I definitely I have this seems
This is the first one I think I've ever had where I'm hosting a podcast and I had a dream about it
I've definitely had dreams about spreadsheets though
I have had dreams about programming and python code like you're trying to fill something out
You just can't do it. I don't know. I can't describe with the I can't remember what the whole story was
But I definitely had like excel spreadsheet in your next rhyme in an excel spreadsheet
Something happened
so
$28 billion is how much money is being spent by us media companies on annual
Livesports rights $28 billion
Almost half of that is coming from the NFL
In form of over $12 billion per year
This is not just not the like the other contracts worth of bajillion billion dollars. This is just in one year one year
um
About 12 and a quarter billion. I did not include the the yet to be completed
Bar writes that they have to to work out with um the NFL ticket, but
$12 billion a year just for the NFL and where do where does w e
Uh fall here there they're they're over here on the far right for watching in video
And then we have a very small circle over here that is a w and if we look at this in a
clearer comparison on this slide
Uh, we see that I was kind of surprised I guess that
W is getting more this is including the peacock deal. This is raw smacked on and peacock combined
$175 million, which is just a little bit more than the nhl gets
So you could say don't eat a more valuable media property than the nhl
Does um is this for these sports leagues is factoring in the like local affiliate deals as well
That's true. You probably get over
Over w when you when you include regional sports networks, even though there so this is just like for the nhl
It's just their deal with the s just in in war on this is wb d n espn combined
Ever general value. Yeah, and that would at least not to say that the nfl isn't crushing everyone else because they definitely aren't the nfl
Doesn't have any of those types of deals right all of nfl
Programming is on tied up in some sort of national television distribution method
Um as opposed to like mba and nlb which also have these in some cases very lucrative
um regional sports network deals and things like that for now at least
Yeah, so nfl is obviously the biggest by more than it's probably like four times the nba something like that
Um nba is number two as you'd expect majorly based balls number three
Because I guess this that's a good point. This doesn't include any of the the rsm money whatever is left of it
Um the olympics are number four
So the major three sports team sports and then then the olympics are actually number four. This is just us
This is not including international
followed by the big 10
followed by march madness followed by the scc
followed by nascar these all all these properties more more uh
live sports revenue
than wb
nascar and the pga
700 million dollars a year and then we get to just under 700 million dollars a year w wb
Um are these current deals too like not what extensions this is yeah because big 12 is probably going to be more than wb
Shortly, I think next year. I'll figure out that math right now
Has the big big time what's what's in in process b pax wealth? Um
Not sure I would have to look let's see big big. Yeah, I think they finalized that i'm not able to tell you
Maybe i'm confusing but the big maybe they didn't finalize yet
And part of these come with who is been oh no. Yeah, they negotiated lately and who is not right
I think you've you've discovered uh an error in our data here at go
This is this is incorrectly totaling the current and the previous values for the big 12
So the current value for the big 12 well the the next deal which will begin in 2025 which is 2.0
It's 360. Yeah
380 so this this big 12 should should be 380 which would put it between uafa and n
So so my mistake
But a w is is more valuable than order dame with mbc u
Uh wimbleton which is probably a limited amount of content and usga which is golf
Yes, okay and the big east small. I guess big east is one of the smaller conferences
Yes, and there's no football in the big east
It's no football. It's such it's really just college basketball the new big east the big east the big east that exists now is like a zombie version
The old big east um and it's comprised of schools that don't play division one football
Okay
and now
As we all know
Vince is back
overtly
He was really back probably
Pulling the strings maybe before that but Vince is back and involved in creative
We're just heard about some many of reports that he made
changes
Uh to raw ahead of i'd have a raw this week
if i'm remembering that right um
And uh
Has business collapsed already now that Vince is back in control of creative
Uh, he's not in the gorilla position apparently but he's he's remotely making things happen
um
And it's not the case yet that ratings are down well. Yes ratings are down from uh
From the peak of the post-resalmania episode
Um, but we can't say that in april and he's been back basically since april
He was at the wrestle mania uh the post-resalmania raw
Um, but in april
Deva ratings for both raw and smacked down
Both total viewership and the demo were still up
Um, and in fact they're up more strongly in april than march now that includes
A post-resalmania raw episode and a post-resalmania
Smacked on episode but so does the year prior which we're comparing it against in this year of your comparison
Raw is up 8 percent smack downs up 8 percent in the demo raw is up 20 percent
Smacked downs up 19 percent even nxt
Even that bet that excellent nxt product that everyone broadly enjoys
With um, the let the legs of bran breaker and indy heartwell
Up 14 percent in april in the demo actually down 4 percent in total viewership though
Um
Impact is doing well as well of late
Um consistently in in that showba's daily top 150
But dana might continues to be down uh double digits in year-over your comparison by month
um
And those numbers look pretty good for raw and smacked down
But i've got even better numbers for raw and smacked down if you look at the younger half of the demo 18 to 34
Smacked downs up 30 percent in april in april not march
Not not not in the great triple h error where it was up only 12 percent 8 percent up 30 percent
Raw is up 29 percent after being up 23 percent in march
So if vidsek man has come back and ruined this product it's not apparent in the ratings, okay, but wait a minute
ratings ratings, uh, let's forget about that. What about
um ticket sales tickets are not as hot as they used to be right
Well, oh here i've got more ratings information. I started me at my point. Um
I've got more more charts. I'm just gonna speed through here. Um ticket sales
According to wrestle ticks data
Uh, paris they did a house show it's higher than last year same time of the year
Uh corpus christy smacked down that's I guess it's not a good comparison when i think compared against bring up berman hand england
Uh, it's up from last time they were in berman ham rosemont horizon
W raw
It's higher than it's been at any time since the pandemic
Uh the pay review that they did there in june is the only thing that comes close
So this this raw that they did on the 24th had a higher attendance
Well a higher tickets distributed then even the august 2021 post pandemic pent up demand raw that they did
Uh at the beginning of the return to toring
Toledo hyle house show no comparison fort wane indiana did better
It's a house show did better than the last time they were in fort wane about a year prior columbus. Ohio smacked down
What where's the cody logo on these
These that's it's uh, we're racing kody's or erased
Uh, I don't know. I would have to I would have to look up cage matches to see
Uh, what what house shows he's been he's been working
Somebody could pull it up if you want as I go through this
Um
Columbus, Ohio smacked down higher than the last smacked down that they did in columbus, Ohio
North little rock arkansas a raw compared to the uh, the smacked down that they did about a year prior
It's up
Uh el paco texas even house show rio rancho new mexico house show up
Linkin de brasska smacked down. It's up from the raw seattle washington raw
It's up from the smacked down portland, Oregon smacked down. It's up from the raw. That's almost universally good news
And if you can pop that rio rancho market like
That's that's usually that's what they say in the business right like rio rancho
Like if you do that then you can do anywhere else if you can get over in rio rancho
You can get over anywhere. Um
um
I think it's clear that
Right if we if we go back in time at a time machine to like the tuesday after the raw after resylmania
So two days after resylmania
And it was very clear that vince was back making changes they had broccoli's nearby down kody roads
Uh despite the fact that that raw did a gigantic rating people were very concerned that
Uh, you know w is going right back in the tank
Um, and you know a month removed from that basically now that we're at the end of april
It's clear that
You know the trend like they you know viewership is down from
The peak right after resylmania, but seems to be settling in at least over the last few weeks
Um and as you point out live attendance is still very strong throughout the month of april
What's what's clear that settling in though? I don't see ratings being weaker even in these following weeks
Then right i'm saying like what is so like right they do like raw just what a point seven
Zero for the night after resylmania was that what they did so yeah, and and it seems like
Since then, you know, we've had what three episodes and seems like we're we're sticking around right like what point somewhere between
Point five six point five seven i've got a increase
Yeah, and that's with that is with increased competition as well because you have the
NBA and NHL playoffs kicking off
Um, so monday nights a little bit more competitive
And so point i know it here was that okay, we have this big
um
I'll try to put the red thing on the screen here
Okay, we have this big peak here as people in in video can see this big pop of the rating for for the post
Wrestlemania episode which is apparently not as high as as the post rumble i'm guessing this this was or the um
That was the rough theology
In any case
Um, what we don't see is like in the blue here last year
That these numbers are higher than they are this year we still got the green
2023 dots are higher than the blue 2022 dots now. They're not as high as the 2021 dots
And maybe maybe that can be dismissed by a cable attrition all that but we don't see it's not as if
Well, yeah, that was a big number for post mania
But everything after that people have tuned out back to back to normal attrition
Vince levels it's not it's still up higher than it was last year total viewership and the demo same story in the demo
And what about smacked down? It's it's more even but it's not lower
uh in demo similar story
so
Is the
I'm I'm not one to say
Vince is great at creative. He's not but we don't see at least not a month in
We don't see this, you know, Vince sucks
He's terrible at creative and it's gonna kill the fan interest that hasn't happened yet
I'll tell you if it happens. I'll we'll talk about it all day if it happens, but it hasn't happened yet
Yeah, like I mean I was a big proponent of like I think Cody should have won at Wrestlemania
I think Cody should be the champion and you should have the title all the time in that he should be defending it on a regular basis
And I thought that was the better move because I think Cody's their biggest star
Um, but it's clear at least a month removed from Cody losing that Cody is still a big draw that Cody is still
Helping out attendance that Cody is still providing viewership boosts
Um, so he's not he hasn't been killed yet
It's possible that continued poor booking does hurt his drawing power, but it's clear that the loss at Wrestlemania
It's in totally pulled over. He's been in the main event of almost every house show
Uh since Wrestlemania. I just look up whether to work right like Cody. He's he's
So the Wrestlemania loss has killed his his drawing power. No, it hasn't oh, okay. Okay. That's the yeah
The main point is is that there was maybe some concern that
He really needed to win at Wrestlemania. Otherwise he looked like a geek and he loses drawing power
But at least a month removed from that loss
It's he's still a big difference maker when it comes to the bottom line. He's still their biggest star
um
I guess the question I have is
Why
What would you attribute to?
The increases in viewership from last year and the increases in house show attendance?
What would be like the things you would attribute to that?
Basically, basically it's a good question
Peacock Roman Reigns and Cody Rhodes first thing that's coming to mind
Okay, so you have
I'm gonna ignore the peacock point for a second, but so like
Cody Rhodes and like the bloodline right are two angles that have really gotten over and fans are interested in seeing what's gonna happen with them
They're tuning in each week. They're maybe going to live shows when they're in town. They're two
Some things the Sammy's ain't for this he's like a key player
Well, yeah, I'm lumping Sammy's ain't and and and lusos and rummarains and solsilcoa
They're all in this the bloodline aspect of it, but you have two major storylines that are have been basically on every show
Because while they have the brand split in theory in the last few months these stars have been on both shows, especially the bloodline
Um, especially like the usos and same museum. They're pretty much on both Ron Smackdown every week
I believe Cody's made some appearances on Smackdown
Cody's obviously a big star on raw
And so being able to kind of have your biggest acts on both raw and Smackdown have probably benefited wwe
Um lately and had been kind of responsible in some ways for you know, the viewership and april holding up really well
Uh, and so now that you why go into a brand split where you are now going to take your most over our acts
in kind of
Superimposed limits on where they can appear and it don't want to be clear like I was this this this this data and
And point i'm trying to make does not say anything about a brand split and any consequence that might have because it's it hasn't
You know the the draft has happened, but the brand split shows and and the and the results of that have not been on the screen yet
Right and so and and I'm splitting the title off again. I think it's a discussion we could have in a moment
Yeah, I I think it's
You have I think you have some really over acts at the moment and being able to use those acts and all of your programming
Have been really important to wwe and for kind of like an unknown reason they're going back to limiting their
Ability to appearance appear on both shows and I don't know why you would do that from a business perspective
Yeah, um, I mean looking at I think there's if you look at these tables that we're looking at here
Which would show the ratings for raw and for Smackdown monthly on a year for your basis. I
It's easy to craft a narrative that wow it was smackdown and and I want to say what was big on Smackdown was the bloodline angle angle and
All that storyline that because what we see is early in the year
We see your year positive differences in Smackdown that we do not see in raw in the in the late part of the year
Um in in september, october, november to summer. Yes, raw is going against money
Football but it was in the prior year too and it's it's flat or down
Raw was flat or down throughout the football season compared to last year also against the football season
But smackdown started to improve year over year in in that time and then raw followed
Um who came back at the beginning of the year?
Cody rose came back to raw and was on raw a lot in the beginning of the year
So it that narrative adds up with the data that I I interpret here
um
Now I think there's
You know, it appears to me a a very much a Vince driven decision to
Do a brand split again?
Maybe there's some some strategic reasons in terms of making arguments to
The two tv companies that you have to renegotiate rights with in terms of saying wow
The brand split will will really make the rosters exclusive and will help us
You know
sustain and improve ratings
Um, but the opposite of that is true, right?
The ability to have all of the stars on both shows is beneficial to both raw and smackdown. Yeah, I mean, I'm not advocating
But I'm just saying that maybe that's a thought
Um, it's not not an argument that I would necessarily advocate or defend
It's the brain split in general has always been something that people have always advocated for because the logic at the most basic level checks out
Right, which is like we're gonna make one show the exclusive home of certain stars
And since they're the only show that you can watch there and I have these stars
People are gonna want to watch that show and that show only so it makes each
Ron's back down feel different and exclusive and
All of that kind of stuff, but that's never really been bared out in no matter how many times if they tried to put brand split
Okay, but always 16
A some really serious thing happened in 2016 when they did the brand split that began in that year in July 2016
Um smacked on one from being a b-show to being up up to its
Ratings improving quite a bit because it had an exclusive roster and it became no longer just a two-hour b-show
But it became sort of a separate company a separate promotion
And I think it and and subsequently subsequent to that
It allowed wb to make a better tv deal than they would have otherwise because instead of just dealing out
Raw and and a show that wasn't as strong as raw they were able to deal out smacked down to fox at a
to make a lot more money than they would have otherwise and
It's not necessarily like the brands was not necessarily a great idea
um
If in a perfect world, I would say but I think it forced Vince to have discipline
It it played just to you know, it it addressed some of his weaknesses in not being able to to be a disciplined booker
Um, so I think it was effective in that way for Vince's particular weaknesses
If he can stick to the bran split being the bran split and not
Yes coming up with different ratios down the rest of his recent years that he cannot
The what what are they what have they done? They did they had the the wild card rule, right?
Yes, right there was a
Three wrestlers line rule each show can show up
per week a superstar issues that opened a challenge to a wrestler from the other show
Wow, yes, but we're going back to brand identity. Do you think that?
Do you think that ron smacked down should have
different identities
for the product
When I was a kid smacked down was pctv pg I think and then raw was tv 14
And this shows kind of felt a little bit wrong
Should guys a couple weeks ago about maybe we we could and at you know in the nine o'clock or ten o'clock hour be
More tv 14 than tv pg. I don't know. I don't know that stuff matters a whole lot
I don't think that stuff matters a whole lot in terms
I'm just saying that like can we do violence and blood and swear words? I don't think that
I'm not saying this
Specifically like a more mature product on one brand just something that makes it feel different
You know from like a product perspective and like that Paul Heyman written smackdowns felt different than what was happening on raw
Yeah, it was still wwe but there was like a real tone to this is a smackdown show in this is a raw show
And I wonder if that could be implemented today because that would it really help differentiate the two products beyond just a roster split
Sure, but I think what we've seen demonstrated in the last
Six to eight months is that?
Ratings improved without that. So what do you need it for?
And and I think about the component in this is having
one
Major he's on the men's side major champion and now you're saying I don't want to do that anymore
Yeah, I mean it's a cop it's a complicated issue because you could also are like, okay
This one reigns comes on does he pop up does it smackdown do a big rating for like the one
One smackdown a month reigns is on I don't know but smackdown ratings improved
In it right the year in the last four months of the year and they're still improving the first four months of this year
right, so we could but can we point to
Where mareans for that when the evidence shows that when he's on the show when he's not on the show
Different to the same this is the key player
But is the idea of Roman Reigns being a big star and the idea that that it's kind of helped
um
Signify a hierarchy within ww is that helped the rest of the product whether even if he's not even there
Um, it's an interesting idea. I'm sure I'm open to the idea that it's possible
Yeah, I think
as
Whether or not
He's on the screen his involvement in and maybe the hierarchy or in the in the storyline is
Is the central part of of of what's working about that and has
contributed I think essentially to
smackdown ratings improving
And why you would weaken that I think is
Is is has no good reason why why you would weaken the title that has been a component in him being
The person the wrestler that everyone wants to beat and can
Cannot beat and and is is the goal that everyone is is going towards why you would
Lesson that is beyond me and it sounds like a basic man
I wonder if it's to have a touring champion too that will do all make all the house shows make all that
Like cody will say if cody wins this or Rollins or whatever
And there were no other belts. You know there were no other belts. So you had to create a new one
Sure Roman only has one one title, right? There'd be no way to take it off
Unless I don't want to talk about creative
Does the title mean at all like the do titles mean anything at all realistically though Roman Reigns title certainly certainly did
Does it yes?
Like I think so like I think that has been if I don't know as opposed to like
Title
Does defending the title really mean that much to like a rating
What's the last one not having a world champion raw not having the world last time
That that woman reigns defended the title on tv
It's gotta be last year. Do you think I guess riddle maybe right and and it did a huge rating
It's it's quarter hour out did the quarter hour that Vince was on went at the day that Vince was
Uh, you know, whatever he stepped down to the wear the rare title offense
I guess like I guess my point like if raw raw has been up a lot
year over year in 18 to 49 and like the point out 1834 in April and
April started with the message of being broad doesn't have a world champion because the guy who was going to be the world champion on raw lost at resomania
um
I think in terms of like
like
Is just the co cody being the champion would be important to establishing his character and I think
Signifying that he is a true top guy and he's on the same level as Roman Reigns in terms of ww hierarchy
But like the I guess like semantic issue of whether or not cody roads has a
Pro wrestling championship. Is that really that big of a deal?
Relative to like cody rots just being a big star and having a character that connects with the audience
So what what's the question?
Do we overrate the idea that like raw needs to have a world champion on this and that like the world title is like
Like that something that just has to exist for something to feel important
the world title did exist
And it doesn't now is sort of my view on it or at least it doesn't exist as potently as it did a couple weeks ago
Yeah, no, no, I'm not talking about the introduction of a new title. I'm just saying in general
Is the world title like as a as a as a as a um
Now when you say world title are you talking about the there's title that that triple h introduced on money a recognized world championship?
It doesn't necessarily have to be a specific title or not but the idea that raw needs a world champion
Um, I don't think so draw because they they're raw. Look at their ratings. They had to have their own world champion
And yes, that's this is my this is precisely my point. I'm agree. We overate the idea like a world championship mattering. Yes
Yes, the turnaround on raw has not been because there's a new world champion on raw
The turnaround in raw has largely been because cody rots is a big star that the fans believe in and the fans want to see
Not necessarily that he has a has a world championship belt. Right and there are at least weren't signs that I could see
telling us that his failure to win the title at reslamania was a detriment to certain
Fan, you know fan interests indicators didn't see that at least not yet
Um, and I it seems to me it's it's not it's not broken, but we want to fix it anyway
um
which is uh
a signature of of one pin sick man
um
So
Smack found reading looks like it was up. We'll see on monday stock is way up still
um
and
L w o
Is uh at the top of of our of our merchandise analysis
Uh appears to have been for the third week in a row the most popular
Category on w shop. Uh, you can get that report as part of the subscription at patreon.com slash reslamomics as well as tv ratings analysis almost every day
And uh this coming week. It's going to be wb q1 earnings
Uh wednesday morning 830 am
of a rare early morning wwe earnings call
Probably not with vincec man, but with nikkhan
Uh, and i'll be talking about that with john pollock on thursday
All right in the afternoon
Uh, the reslamomics pro wrestling industry report is still a part of the patreon subscription as well as it is available on payhip
for just six dollars
and uh
Finally, well i was going to say before we did this. Yes. Oh, oh, that's okay
Uh, uh, luido have a super chat that came in a little bit after a topic a couple topics ago
So let's address that and then we'll go to the draft
Uh super chatters from big time backster was ww badly underpaid by mbc universal Comcast before fox came in
Well, so before fox before the 2018 deal
w for for both ron smackdown
Was getting about a hundred and thirty million dollars a year for both ron smackdown as we know they're getting
470 million dollars a year now from the combination of mbc un fox
I mean
badly underpaid is like i don't know what what's what's the cost of you know, what's the appropriate value of some
asset, that's what people are willing to pay for it and
When they made their deal in 2014 that
140 130 million dollar deal with mbc you that's what mbc was willing to pay for it and
W apparently didn't get a deal that was didn't get an offer in the alternative that was good enough
uh to to leave
But however in 2014 part of what contributed i believe to it to a weaker deal than they would have got
Another wise was the fact that they did the w network at that time
Vincey band said as much in earnings calls that launching the network
Seems to have made
Mbc you has a sense and i think there is some concern that maybe
The launch of the network would put content out there that would take away from w ratings maybe
um
And they didn't get as strong of an upgrade the the two x to three x upgrade that vince had hyped
to um, I believe it was like like hickey from benchmark promising like hickey that he could put him in a hammerlock
If they didn't get at least a two x upgrade they only got a 1.7 x upgrade
um
So I think the the choice to do the network
One of the costs of it was a weaker tv deal than they would have gotten otherwise in that sense
You could say that they were underpaid
um
But a huge huge factor in
getting a bigger and better deal was
strengthening smackdown uh
To a degree that that made it a far more valuable show and that was because of the bran split
And I don't like the bran split. Okay
All right, I think we're ready that was the only super chat we got so
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So now
We are ready
From our respective war rooms to begin
The wrestling extract where we will lift the three of us from our our war rooms
We will select five wrestlers five a piece
And what do you want what should we do here? We should we haven't fully laid out these parameters
but should we
Check back on this in six months a year at the end of the year
And calculate that this is how we're going to have to calculate it
I think is calculate of our five wrestlers on a daily basis
What is the what was the average ELOS? That's the chess scoring system. What was the average ELO of our five wrestlers?
um
Six months wait kamis. What's yes? Let's why don't we just do the end of the year the end of the year? Okay
Because that's a nice time frame. It can help me evaluate what i'm gonna be drafting on. Fair enough. Okay
And um, so this is gonna be based on ELO ELO score
These are this is the ELO top 500 top 100 you've heard of the pwe top 500
This is the ELO top 100 and as of the other day
number one is jad carkill
With her uh, basically if you've got over a 1500 you're doing really well
Because I think I have a distribution chart here that that tells you sort of where out of like
This is like 5,000 wrestlers that are represented here
and
If you're doing over 1500 you're you're in the top 400 or so out of 5,000
To give you an idea of what's a good ELO score and what's a bad ELO score the the who who has the lowest ELO score
Is stalker each kawa of course
But I think he's do he's do for some wins. So i might be one sort of assing up his life
uh
So uh, there's the rules
Hope you have a chance to read them over
Uh
Basically are we yeah, are we starting eat are we as everyone i'm gonna start with their what their ELO is now
Then we're gonna add that thing here or we're so we're not going from starting today
Everyone's ELO is the same score and it's gonna go out based on i think i i want to do
Yeah, no, we're gonna do because then okay, we're gonna do starting today
So if if this was a one-day contest, you just you just want to pick all the top names and whoever it happened to get the most
Names with the best score would be the winner
So starting tomorrow you'll get
Day one your five wrestlers get calculated into your daily average and that will continue every day through the end of the year
Now if the now in activity does come into play here
If one of your wrestlers
Doesn't have a match for 90 days
Looking at you ronerains
Then you fall you should you stop being included that doesn't count as a zero, but it just stops being included into your average
Makes sense
Somebody becomes injured somebody's a Brock Lesnar
Their your score is only going to count for 90 days since your last match
CM punk
CM punk's not on here because it's been enacted that long. I don't know what his score would be if not but
um
And when you've been enacted for 90 days your score starts to degrade. It's all in the fine print here
um
So with that in mind
Uh, what else have I got here?
This this is this is how the men rank john moxie's number one among men fall by vocata
Fall by josh alizanter's but you don't you don't go off the list as soon as you're injured
You have to be enacted for 90 days
So you even if you get injured you're still good for 90 days because I can't based on cage match results tell if you're injured
you know
Right, but josh alizanter. I don't think it's going to be wrestling for right within the time frame to stay on the list
Right and when you're when you're you know making your picks you got to keep that in mind. I suppose
So
So he will that's my question is there should like what it
My question is what
My question is what it makes sense to pick somebody who's maybe not ranked
highly
Uh, and you say it again
S- say again jesse
My question is does it make sense for to draft someone who's maybe not ranked that highly in yellow
At the moment who can climb up this list because maybe we think they're gonna get a big push soon
Right exactly. I think so like whoever you think is gonna have a lot of wins over people who have good yellow scores
That's who you should pick
Okay, who now who's ranked highly might be an indicator of that, but only vincentoni no
And maybe paul
And others where this is not limited to wna w but w a w's w and it's a lot of news pannier too
Um, those wrestlers tend to be the highest. This is a total universal cage match database here
Um, and it does does turn out that the the way that this is calculated
Know how shows are included in this
Uh, but the way that this is calculated we do end up with a lot of wna w wrestlers
Um in the in the top ranks here
I think it probably tells you something about wb's booking in that Roman Reigns is number four and there's no other
Men in the top 10 from wb
Um, I think it maybe just tell you something about the parody of w's booking
And this is factoring things like house shows where
Heels pretty much lose all the top shows unless they're real. No house shows are calculated here. Okay house shows before 1985 only
So no no house shows where faces would just predictably win most of the matches
Okay, so I did have a uh
This this is how the the top what 20 has changed over time over the last 365 days
For people watching an in video uh thunder rosa was at one point number one
Uh back in back in you know last summer or so when she was the w win this champion
Um, okada climbing up and down the ranks
Uh josh Alexander often doing well ward low was in the top 10 for a while
Uh roan reigns struggling to stay in the top 10
Uh someone named mentalo who I think is like a Canadian indie wrestler doing very well
He's not not doing a lot of jobs on the the Canadian andes. I guess not
Uh, will osprey getting in there a bit but then falling back down
Uh kentomiyahara menoro sizuki hikaru rishita
Uh
Okada had some moments being number one overall as we as we slow down towards the present here
Um, Athena is doing really well right now and she's the number two
Uh woman on the chart and there we are we're in the present
So that's that's where we're at with that. I don't hope my video held up there
Uh, so
I will uh
I'll pick last
And do we want to do you suggested go snake snake style? Yeah drafting snake style
Does that involve uh jake rob?
No
That said what is that?
So that means like so like if you have the last pick you'll get the pick twice and then it will go like reverse order
So like one two three and then you know that third also picks the fourth pick and you know so on
Okay, do you want to pick first goal sure?
Uh, I've been kind of looking at this analyzing this
Um
Let's go jake her girl. She's still holding strong with that title
Okay, that's so she's not good. I mean if she loses it's not like she will drop tremendously
But she's got the undefeated streak. I think that's a pretty good pick. Um
So now you're you're the official uh draft regulator here's all the now we go to yes
Who gets one pick? Yeah, I think it's one pick. Yeah
Okay, Brandon have you do you don't play fantasy sports ever? I played fantasy football uh years ago. I had a fantasy football game
Um, I love the jade cargo pick. That's who I was gonna pick. Um, but I will pick a good about that
We are we're gonna go live to to to tod mckxay. He's actually been talking to me about it. Um
I'm gonna go with Athena
Okay
That's a pretty good pick. Um
Who is like number five right now? Um, and I don't see her push
Like stopping. I think she's a dominant champion. She's gonna be presented as such on television each week. Yeah
So do I get two now? Yes, okay. I will take john moxley
He just lost to adam page on the paper view, right?
um
Boi
For the adam page. Yes match
moxley won adam page one and
I will take
Camille is ranked pretty highly here. Um, josh alexander is probably gonna fall off the theme is already taken
I guess I guess I will take roman raids because roman raids is not losing for like a year right at least
um
Okay now
second round
Now does just jesse get two picks in this round? No, no, no you just got two because you were the last so like when I go
I'm only gonna yeah, I'm only gonna ever have one pick and then gole was gonna have two picks
But that'll be my first yeah, but now what gole was going to pick the last pick in round two is gonna
You both totally understand. It's good first. I just don't say okay great. Okay, so gole picks one of jesse books
I just okay, okay. Are you doing a bit? No
All right, um, this is very interesting. This is a very interesting exercise
um
Look at the top 100 on the screen here
I'm just I'm curious. I really would like
I guess what I'm really missing is I'd like a better understanding of like how quickly someone can rise
Someone who's not here right well, that's why I tried to illustrate in in this uh, this bar race
Was like how how does the movement happen?
Yeah, I have a question if somebody beats wins say a triple threat or a four way do they get a higher ela score because they beat multiple people
Let's consult the the rules here
Because that is addressed somewhere here in the rules
All kinds of matches are analyzed three ways this includes so only singles matches are considered
But that includes typical that includes one-on-one, but also multi-apponent matches battle royals will also count
Um, no tag matches are counted in any form. I probably should have told you that earlier
Um all wrestlers and title title single histories
So here here's here's the answer your question
Whenever the match with multiple opponents for example a three way forward battle royal is rewarded as if they beat a wrestler with an
Elo rating that is the average of the other participants
Okay, so you don't get multiple credit
Kind of just get a you you win as if you beat the the average of your opponents someone with the average yellow of of your opponents
And it's a very complicated math formula. I could show you the math formula, but I I couldn't explain it to you, but I have
I'm going to take
So i'm going to take warglow warglow
Okay
And now it's jesse's turn. Yeah
Uh, i'm gonna take groom sir
And then that there oh yeah, yeah, i can do okay. Oh no no snakes dally and then i'm gonna take sonata
Sonata the sonata all caps sonata. Yes. Okay. No
No one is taking ocada yet right and it's my turn. No, it's jesse's turn
It's my turn
Um
I'm gonna take kamil
Okay, is it kamil or is it kamil?
kamil or is it i'm not sure i'll have to consult with joe lanza because he's the only person still watching in the way
Along with all the fox news years who are you know crossover from from uh
gut felt it's my pick now now you have to get two picks
I get two picks. Yeah again. All right. Well i'm taking ocada
Uh and jesus left here
Osprey's hurt is osprey hurt? No, he's clear right? He's he recently just came back. I believe
Yeah, um
Orange Cassidy probably gonna keep that all that uh all that
International title whatever it's called
Um, is anybody else gonna like go on like a big big hot streak that we anticipate some big push for in but in the latter half of
2023
We're leaving josh al-xander off because he's got what he's got pretty serious injury, right? Was he uh
He tore his ACL. Oh wow. He's he's probably out for like eight to 12 months, right?
Yeah, he might have it might have been an i just i can't remember specifically what the injury is
But it was one of those eight to 12 month injuries and I think it would have been tore his ACL
He might have tore us a keelies or something else, but okay. It was a pretty nasty injury for she to
She rustled a while. Is she not rustles?
Sometimes she on here. I don't think she's been around since the uh since the
He has a muscles this March to rest on March 12. Yeah
She wrestled on March 12 though
Um
But it's not like she's about to win a title or something like that to really right because who's could remain?
Is j carl and and jamey hater?
If you're just speaking people on dark, that's not a bad way to
To rack a star play abazon is so high
Yeah, right
Um, i'll go with a carl sheet
So that's my pick
No, I know how you guys know this okay
Here's the top 100
We have still left here will osprey out of the top slots here of course josh al xander
Minoros is a key ward low
Watch goals cursor here on the blue slides here that could indicate that he might be picking shinquitz kage soon
Uh, like the thing is like I don't trust no one to book anyone well
Uh, so like some of these promotions like like I kind of want to pick jake lee. I'm like, oh
They just made him ght champion like he's gonna get a lot of even the top of hundred here. I don't see yes
He's in that he's near the top of the second column
um
but like
Okay, he uh
like no was
Like a really poorly booked company and even though they just made him champion
Uh, he might not be okay. Okay. Kimia is up up here in the top in the first call. Yes
Yes, um
But I would never stick anything on kat kai tokio me up winning a big match. Um, so
I'm gonna go
Yeah, bianca bell air. Yeah, okay
And this goal is picked up. We're gonna go orange cafe
Okay
And then do you have two picks? Yes, this will be my last big cap. Uh, yeah
Oh
Let's go hook. No one's really stopped hook yet
Yeah, where is he on here? Where is he hook? He's in towards the bottom of the first column. Yeah, there he is. Okay
So hook and not now it doesn't
It's my turn. Okay, this might this might
come back to what is wait if
Are people who have not I don't know if this man is eligible?
Um, because he hasn't rest
I don't know when last time he wrestled was and I don't see him in the top 100
But can I draft Nick all this?
You can you can draft anyone you want. Okay, I'll take Nick all this as my kind of wild card pick
Okay. Oh man. I don't know I have a pick I have one more
Um
Took us an odd way down here, but he is the champion. He's probably bound to rise unless he's a short term champion
um
Let's see here
That dicey-sicky modos ranked pretty highly here. Is he getting booked strongly and like was it all Japan big Japan big Japan?
I know he's japan. He's probably working in all Japan too, right?
Uh, he hasn't been working in all Japan from what I can tell I actually can't tell you where he's working
But I've been following at least the champions carnival and he's not in the champions carnival
Um, and he has I don't think he's been around in all Japan for a little bit. Okay. Did Siri win a title on that
Sardom show that I only watched the main event of I haven't watched the series of the sardom show
I couldn't tell you
Right, there's a lot of value here in some of these smaller promotions stars that are maybe just beating the crap out of people
If you're if you're following the puro indies man, you got an advantage here
My issue yeah, my problem with the puro guys is I don't know how many singles matches some of these people are going to wrestle
Right, but if we're talking about how many big like even if sonata is champion
For a long time like how many big singles wins?
Is he really getting he's you know, he has two or three title defenses over a six-month span
Plus you have the g1 coming up in new japan and your top stars are gonna lose to some other top stars
There could be a lot of volatility there. Yeah, yeah, that's how I was so that's why I was a little afraid to take them
But perhaps you can also say if someone goes like nine and one and they're g1 block and they beat a bunch of other top stars
I'd probably give them a big use too. All right. I will I will take shingo
Take shingo tzkage
Just lost just lost two days. I think we lost these he's still ranked uh, unless this this fat mattress not calculated here
He's still ranked he was what just lost to tai chi or five six seven eight eight number eight
But that was for the king of pro wrestling title
I'm surprised none of us took enriche cido. Oh
He's he's he's second from the bottom in the third column. I'm just picking random
uh
Marco and strata
Joe henry that I don't Chris vice. I know who johenry is. Yeah
Tomihana Kaiser
Rydon on that is
It's a very interesting. I almost wish we had more than five rounds because this is a very I think this is very interesting
I think this would be popular on other podcast one
What is I think people would be into this because I think it's it's a very interesting thought process of
who do you want to get drafted and
to me at least
It seems like the people who are going to be in a w
um
are good picks because
Of a w dark and just they're going to get singles matches and they're going to wrestle people
Um, like a lot of people like will not wrestle on dark like the big names
Well, I mean john moxley probably not going to wrestle on dark if he does it's very few times, right?
right, but
um
Although I like a guy like ward low like I could just see like ward low is going to win a lot of
Short television matches in the next few rights just want to tell that's gonna help probably not gonna be a short title rain
Yeah, I mean, maybe it is again, but it probably shouldn't be
And so like those people like kamil and like I took women like I took kamil a thena
um
Beacabella air, especially like a thena. I think is like
Like a really strong pick. That's why I picked her first piece
Just because I see she's getting a big push in rayawana
She's going to be wrestling like on like every not i don't know every week on rayawana
But frequently on television and she's going to be protected and she's going to beat people
And she could be that's kind of the person looking for
I think moxley's going to lose
Probably some more matches
Come here. I think he's wrestling kenny omega
Uh on bay 10th. That's right
I think he's probably gonna lose that match. Maybe he wins it
Um
That was that kind of shied me away from him
Um
That's what jade is the best pick right because jade is going to she's not gonna run this into the whole maybe statlander comes back
Yeah, maybe christian loner is coming back very soon, but who knows?
And at that point she's probably not gonna lose a bunch more matches, right
Right, even if she lost to christian loner, she wouldn't lose her next 20 matches or anything like that
Okay, I guess what we'll have to do is is like create some sort of dash board
Maybe we'll put it on the website or something and uh, so and that will like automatically calculate each person
They'll show each versus zlo and then give our daily average or something like that
That'll be a uh
If if this uh gets over well, maybe we'll expand this project into something more if people enjoy this so
That's it. I think
It's all i've got
I like this theme music you put on. Yes. This is this is our royalty-free
sports show music
Any plugs for sign off
No, I mean gentlemen's wrestling podcast. I'm gonna have a new episode coming up later this week
um
You can find that on any of your podcasting app
devices sort of services
So jonemons wrestling podcast
had article run on voice of wrestling this week talking about
basic man and kind of the dual standard that
Society just seems decides to treat him by as opposed to other powerful media executives who have been undermined by
sexual assault allegations and other similar allegations
Um that people can check out. It's gotten a lot of hits. I know for v o w this week. Um
See people can check that out for you draw for v o w
Um, yeah, I would say like I'm I wouldn't say like i'm a hulk Hogan, but I would say like maybe like, you know
The cody rhodes
Cote rhodes. Oh, brad heart. Okay. Oh, I wish I was cody rhodes like realistically like cody rhodes is a hall of fame
Like as a hall of fame his hall of fame case
Um this year is very interesting as far as just like is he always the last time we did
Is he officially on the ballot? He has been on the ballot before cody rhodes has been on the ballot before i'm pretty sure and then he
Um, he's a little off. Yeah, and then he fell off like he was on like two years ago
And then he fell off, but I would say that he has built a very strong case for himself
You just look at the difference in drawing power. We haven't seen an american wrestler do that in quite a long period of time. Yes
Um
Emory from ng is point pointing out the no
Pup punk no no no punk. You were screaming about punk for a while
Yeah, no one picks the unpunk we could have picked the only here. I'm if he could string more than two words together
Yes, so punk could be could have been picked. Well, we did not pick him
um
He did rank quite highly when he was on the chart, but he's been inactive i've so his
His score has been degrading in his inactive active time. I think it's still pretty high though
It will be very interesting to see how frequently he wrestles when he comes back is he going to
wrestle every week on that saturday show or is he gonna wrestle every other week
Or is he gonna be like mjf where he's only gonna work a few
Big matches, but he'll be a presence on the shows
Health wise which is is it wise to have them wrestle like every other week or such on
Uh collision if that's the show that he's going to be on
Or I think his utilization from that aspect is very interesting to follow
Okay, all right. We will be back
Uh next sunday 11 a.m. Eastern right? Yeah, and uh, thanks everybody for listening and subscribing talk to you next time